15 Comments

1. 

   H

   November 16, 2007 at 3:32 PM

   Sounds good in principle, but…
   Is it me or is the only convert speaking at this thing Imam Siraj and Ihsan Bagby?
   Not to bring a negative tone, but with the number of converts out there, you would imagine there would be a larger number that could speak on “empowerment”.

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2. 

   Musa Maguire

   November 16, 2007 at 4:20 PM

   There are several panels of converts in the conference program. The non-converts are addressing more the experience of giving da’wah, with a lot of feedback built in, etc. And don’t forget Dr. Crane.

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3. 

   Rasheed Gonzales

   November 17, 2007 at 1:36 PM

   Why you’d want a Qadari (Ally) giving you his experiences in da’wah baffles me.

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4. 

   Amad

   November 20, 2007 at 12:34 PM

   Rasheed…whatever. Qadari, suroori, qutubee, etc., etc. While you guys are busy creating new labels to attach to new people, the dawah goes on.

   So, Br. Musa, how did it go??

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5. 

   H

   November 20, 2007 at 2:23 PM

   Amad,
   Instead of writing of Rasheed’s comments, perhaps you should talk to Yasir Qadhi about the issue and see if this is true?
   Confirm a report before you affirm or deny it.

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6. 

   ibnabeeomar

   November 20, 2007 at 2:40 PM

   H / Rasheed – lets grant that you’re correct about the issue:

   what do you propose the next step to be? instead of being “baffled” how about being proactive? why not write to them (politely) explaining the situation and soliciting feedback? if its done properly maybe next time a conference is organized they won’t invite a speaker with such affiliations.

   i think amads point is posts like the one above do not serve any constructive purpose at all. work with your brethren to better the ummah instead of sitting around criticizing and labelling people like you are better than them. it doesnt accomplish anything.

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7. 

   Amad

   November 20, 2007 at 2:41 PM

   The only problem “H” is that this post isn’t about Ally or about this topic… Its about a topic that is irrelevant to this issue. So, I don’t need to investigate about what Ally’s latest beliefs are or in how they fit in the subjective categories. We take the good and leave what is objectionable…

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8. 

   Musa Maguire

   November 20, 2007 at 5:59 PM

   The event was nice, alhamdulillah. Imam Siraj gave a great speech about racism in the Muslim community. Other speakers offered a variety of expert and personal perspectives on conversion, reversion, integration, Islam in America, American Islam, etc.

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9. 

   Rasheed Gonzales

   November 20, 2007 at 6:18 PM

   Rasheed…whatever. Qadari, suroori, qutubee, etc., etc. While you guys are busy creating new labels to attach to new people, the dawah goes on.

   New? The Qadariyyah are one of the first sects to break away from the People of Sunnah. Their heresy is so bad that many imams said that if they say that Allah does not know, that you cannot even pray behind them.

   Btw, of course the da’wah goes on. As if to imply that I’m not involved in da’wah of any sort … heh. Funny.

   / Rasheed – lets grant that you’re correct about the issue:

   what do you propose the next step to be? instead of being “baffled” how about being proactive? why not write to them (politely) explaining the situation and soliciting feedback? if its done properly maybe next time a conference is organized they won’t invite a speaker with such affiliations.

   i think amads point is posts like the one above do not serve any constructive purpose at all. work with your brethren to better the ummah instead of sitting around criticizing and labelling people like you are better than them. it doesnt accomplish anything.

   May Allah reward and bless you, Omar, for the advice. I’ll keep it in mind.

   I find it funny though how there’s always this assumption that when one criticizes another that the one criticizing thinks he’s better than the one criticized, as if what’s in one’s heart is open for all and sundry to see.

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10. 

    Amad

    November 20, 2007 at 8:36 PM

    ASA// Thank you Rasheed for the edification. I am well aware of who the Qadariyyah were, akhi.

    The question really is who gave a small band of Muslims the right to judge who is Qadary and who is not, who is Qutbee and who is not, who is Surooree and who is not and ultimately who is salafee and who is not? And to be honest, I am not looking for the answer because I was part of that small band of Muslims. Rather, I am asking you to contemplate over this question and any answers that you come up with.

    I said this somewhere else, and I find it apt to repeat it: “We will be more effective dai’s when we stop making our whole dawah about what is wrong with others’ dawah”

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11. 

    Rasheed Gonzales

    November 20, 2007 at 9:36 PM

    Rather, I am asking you to contemplate over this question and any answers that you come up with.

    Sure, brother. You’re right. We’re all one happy family of Muslims, regardless of whatever deviations we may have. Even if one says that Allah doesn’t know certain aspects and outcomes of the future, despite being spoken to and advised by the brothers like Bilal Philips and many others, we still can’t call him a Qadari.

    said this somewhere else, and I find it apt to repeat it: “We will be more effective dai’s when we stop making our whole dawah about what is wrong with others’ dawah”

    True, very true. However, even SP doesn’t make their “whole dawah about what is wrong with others’ dawah.” An unnecessarily large part of it, perhaps. But not whole.

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12. 

    ibnabeeomar

    November 21, 2007 at 12:52 AM

    I find it funny though how there’s always this assumption that when one criticizes another that the one criticizing thinks he’s better than the one criticized, as if what’s in one’s heart is open for all and sundry to see.

    you know.. actually i agree w/you about the qadari stuff in regards to shabbir ally. with all due respect to amad i think its a different ballgame from ‘suroori/qutubi’ type stuff – whereas those do fall into what you mention, but someone denying the knowledge of Allah is a completely different level (esp when its people such as bilal philips talking about it and not random people).

    with that said i just dont think posting it on here, esp in response to this seminar is the best way to go on the issue and something more productive could have been done. though i dont know whats in your heart, a ‘drive by comment’ like that unfortunately does give that impression (whether correct or incorrect)

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13. 

    Abu Bakr

    November 21, 2007 at 2:21 AM

    This is indeed a serious matter as denying Allah’s predestiny of events is a major deviation, and denying His Pre-Knowledge of them amounts to Kufr.

    I know that some of us have had negative experiences in the past with the overzealous way in which many adherents of the Salafi Da’wah have dealt those whom they disagree, but this should not cause us to forget that serious deviancies do exist, and that dealing with them, particularly when it comes to the most delicate matters of faith and disbelief such as this one, is a very serious matter.

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14. 

    H

    November 21, 2007 at 8:28 AM

    Yes, serious problems of deviation should not be watered down, but they should be discussed maturely and in the right forum.
    And no doubt at times someone of even deviant standing will have knowledge that will benefit certain students, but I believe the point that Rasheed was making was that why would we want to introduce someone of such standing to newly learning muslims, much less converts?
    The personal accusations and such in this thread were seriously uncalled for, just because a person would in the past wrongly inquisition people based on their beliefs and practices, does not negate the fact that there are actually deviant beliefs and practices.
    Let’s grow up a little a play the part of the better man even if we feel someone else was out of place or wrong.

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15. 

    H

    November 21, 2007 at 8:30 AM

    Musa,

    I am glad to hear that the meeting went well. I’d like to hear a synopsis of what each speaker spoke on, even if just a paragraph, or a line or two.

    Perhaps you can do that in another post or right here in the comments.

    Reply