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LES: Tahir al Qadri Issues “Fatwa”, Stereotypes Deobandis & “Wahhabis”

10. March, 2010 News & Views, Politics 102 comments
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Recently, this century's “shaikh-ul-Islam” (an affront to the title itself), Tahir al-Qadri, issued a fatwa against terrorism. MSM covered it as if it was a eureka moment, even though scholars have routinely issued edicts against terrorism, from around the world [see this from 20,000 deobandi scholars, this from Saudi scholars, etc.].

Br. Yusuf has a good post on this, extracting Tahir's own agenda against deobandis (and of course the “wahhabi bogeyman“). See source below. Tahir's quote against deobandis reminds me of the typical assertion by the Islamophobe, “all Muslims are not terrorists, but all terrorists are certainly Muslim”. This quote is as much a lie as is Tahir's conclusion.

Tahir al-Qadri is hardly uncontroversial, the leader of the brelwi sect in Pakistan, not quite mainstream as the press would like you to be believe. This makes the fatwa even more of a non-event for Muslims. In his free-time, Tahir al-Qadri appreciates a good qawali. His followers love to adorn their houses with his pictures, as I myself observed in the house of my uncle, in addition to kissing his feet- see video below. The rafidahs love him and Quilliam Foundation, the British-adopted, government-financed, Muslim poodle, can't say enough good things about him.  I wonder how much foot Ed got??

Is this a triumph for the Islamic peacemakers?
Allegra Mostyn-Owen
26.02.10

What is Islam?

On Tuesday in London, a revered Muslim scholar will announce a fatwa against suicide bombing in the name of Islam. Here, Allegra Mostyn-Owen talks exclusively to Dr Tahir ul-Qadri as he outlines his historic vision…

I meet Dr Tahir ul-Qadri in a neat, terraced house in Barking where he emerges from his studies resplendent in an elegant silk striped grey and white juba and a black woollen hat.

I am honoured to be in his presence because he is considered a living saint by his followers. All Sunni and mainly Pakistani, they celebrate his birthday and his photograph adorns all the mosques which are part of Minhaj-ul-Quran, the movement which he has spent years raising into an international organisation. It now operates in 33 countries and advises the British Government on how to combat youth radicalisation.

Minhaj-ul-Quran welcomed, for example, the news last month that plans to build Europe's biggest mosque close to the Olympic site had been blocked. Weeks earlier, the group urged police to prevent Islamic extremists marching through Wootton Bassett. “These kind of extremists do not represent the British Muslims,” they said. Dr ul-Qadri is impressively ecumenical in his relations with other faiths such as Shia and Christian. He gets a lot of flak for this from those who do not agree with his views.

On Tuesday, in central London, Dr ul-Qadri, friend of former prime minister of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto who was assassinated in 2007, will declare suicide bombings and terrorism un-Islamic. Taken from a 600-page document published in Pakistan last month, Dr ul-Qadri will use texts in the Koran and other Islamic writings to argue that suicide and terrorist attacks are “absolutely against the teachings of Islam and that Islam does not permit such acts on any excuse, reason or pretext”.

I first met Dr ul-Qadri five years ago at his headquarters in Lahore, where I was for a wedding. I was recently married myself for the second time — as the former wife of Mayor Boris Johnson I'd wed again in secret to my 23-year-old Muslim lover, himself from Lahore. His parents knew nothing about it. Since 2005, I have been giving art classes for women and children at the Minhaj-ul-Quran mosque in Forest Gate.

Today, in Barking, Dr ul-Qadri is focusing on the problems of how many young British Pakistanis are being radicalised. Although the Government is working hard, says Dr ul-Qadri, they are working on the wrong lines. In other words, he believes, that the Government has not kept abreast of the multi-culturalism of its own people. “England is the hub of the Western world. There is a big community here of around two million with a Pakistani background. The communities are in great numbers.” As Dr ul-Qadri sees it, no terrorists have emerged from a Sunni or Sufi background: instead, they have come from the Salafis (Wahhabis) or Deobandis. The Deobandis are a South Asian variant which is close to the Gulf-orientated Wahhabis.

“Every Salafi and Deobandi is not a terrorist but I have no hesitation in saying that everyone is a well-wisher of terrorists and this has not been appreciated by the Western governments,” he said.
Dr ul-Qadri, who has the authority of a Sheikh–ul-Islam, a title given to those who have superior knowledge of the principles of the faith, is coming out with his statement now because the Wahhabis and Deobandis have been silent in condemning the killings in Pakistan and abroad.

They dominate much of the apparatus of state in Pakistan — as well as most of the mosques in London — which is why in the West we receive mixed messages: the military launches vast offensives while the religious and education ministries say nothing. As a result, many in the West believe that the church in Pakistan is not doing enough to counter the violence.

British-Pakistanis lured into extremism present a peculiar problem because, when they go to Pakistan to further their murderous ambitions, they have mixed loyalties. They do not feel British but nor do they feel wholly Pakistani and yet they are a diplomatic nightmare for both countries. Terrorism is, Dr ul-Qadri says, an intellectual phenomenon as it applies to British-Pakistanis. They have been groomed from an early age in their Deobandi-leaning mosques where they are taught that they are living in a kafir society where they cannot integrate.

It is an “us and them” way of thinking and the narrow-mindedness starts when children attend mosque from the age of five. But, as Dr ul-Qadri says: “isolation is not the Islamic model — integration was the practice of the Holy Prophet in the society of Medina”.

The maulvis (untutored clerics) give a misguided concept of Jihad: “This is the burning issue of the whole world,” says Dr ul-Qadri. Once these children have been groomed into intellectual conservatism, they are very susceptible to extremism especially if they are not attached to society by a job. “Those who still have contact with [such clerics], whether they act out their ideas or not, they will be well-wishers of the Taliban,” he says. Since the governments and agencies working on anti-terrorism are not brought up in Muslim culture, Dr ul-Qadri believes they do not understand. “Still their policies are not on the right track.” I ask him about the role of art in children's education. It is commonly thought that Islam is contrary to art. He has no quibbles: he sees art as helping to satisfy one aspect of the human personality. “Islam wants a balanced personality,” he says.

“We teach children intellectually and academically. The fight against the darkness of ignorance, the fight for charity: this is the true jihad.”

[Source]

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About author

Amad

Amad Shaikh is one of the founders of MuslimMatters, Inc. His identity is shaped by his religion (Islam), place of birth (Pakistan), and nationality (American). By education, he is a ChemE, topped off with an MBA from the Wharton. He was one of the founders of the TDC, and in what seems like a distant memory, he served as the President of U. Houston's MSA. His interests include politics, cricket, and media interactions. Career-wise, Amad is in management in the oil & gas industry (but one who still appreciates the "green revolution").

View all posts by Amad

  • Uthman

    Alhamdulillah we don’t have many “Shaykh ul Islam” like this walking around! May Allah protect us!

    • http://www.sunnah.org Shahzaib

      A-O-A
      I think just to put one clip of a group people around Sheikh Qadri will deffinately create a doubt in mind of common people. There are three steps in spiritualism Sharia / Tariqah / Haqiqah i.e. Allah subahanavataala. Sheikh is a learned islamic scholar although i disagree with his political activities still I consider him a great scholar of islam. You have created the difference by mendling the issue between wahabi / salafi movement against Ahle-sunnah which includes the four basic silsilas and her silsilas grew out of these silsilas. Further more since I been living in Saudi Arabia for the last 9 years and out of these 9 years I have spend only 90 days in pakistan. Still I am not impressed / convinced by wahabi version of islam as it follows sheikh abdul wahab more than prophet SAW. I can go in details but I am not here to debate this issue. Further more lets have guts to criticize brain less arab leader ship and muslim countries who allowed US to implant a poisonous snake Israel in the heart of Holy Land of Muslims. We are indulge with sunni wahabi issues while west is successfully slaughtering our brethren all over th globe. Lets criticize guantanamo bay / lets criticize begram prison, lets criticise slaughtering of innocent kashmiris by indian armed forces, lets criticize slaughtering of chechen mujahideens by russian zionist forces but that we can not. All we can do is either Sheikh Qadri or sames will go for criticizing wahabis. Lets be united and be together as one nation and then we might be able to achieve what we had in the era of Hadrat Umar RA.
      wasalam
      Shahzaib
      P.S. Sama is jaiz and there are certain conditions that apply, as of kissing the foot its not the fault of Sheikh its one of his student in a specific state of mind. I disagree with kissing and touching the foot but it was not initiated by Sheikh.

      • orange

        ”Sama is jaiz and there are certain conditions that apply, as of kissing the foot its not the fault of Sheikh its one of his student in a specific state of mind. I disagree with kissing and touching the foot but it was not initiated by Sheikh”

        Please! Is that an excuse?

        His feet got kissed more than a few times, and all he does i stouch them slightly on them back.There are soo many ways to stop somebody from semi-worshipping you like that, like saying: ”Please, no feet-kissing’ me”.

        And the sujud infront of him? I mean come on, where is that in the deen? Sujud is only for Allah and we humiliate ourselves and humble ourselves infront of Him azza’ wajal.

        It seems like blatant shirk by people who are very ignorant about the magnitude of their actions.

        this ‘shaykh’ is collecting sins by allowing this kind of behaviour. He should be ashamed.

  • abdullah

    wat up with them dancing?

    • Umer S

      they’re advertising “Impulse”

  • BintKhalil

    Assalamu alaikum

    Subhanallah! That youtube video is just unbelievable! Are they actually kissing his feet? Having their deen criticised by this man (for the Deobandis and the Salafis) should be considered the biggest affirmation of their deen.

    No wonder this fatwa is being treated so differently from the ones issued by the Saudi and Indian ulema – I guess we are living in a time where if our actions are actually praised by certain institutions, we need to take a step back and check ourselves i.e. if they call you a good Muslim, you just might be the farthest from being one.

    • http://muslimmatters.org/author/amad/ Amad

      Guess who else likes the fatwa. None other than the severely islamophobic, Harry’s Place (equivalent to jihadwatch in america) hosting an entire post by a Tahir follower. I am not one for guilt by association, but comeon, being praised by the likes of Harry’s Place, Quilliam, and the like says a LOT.

      Interestingly, none of the mainstream organizations in UK supported Tahir. Here is iengage on the matter.

      Reminds me of Kabbani and his “80% of the masajids are run by extremist” remark at the US State department. What do you think, Asim, should we afford Kabbani great respect too?

      • http://www.sunnah.org Shahzaib

        Sheikh Kabbani is one of a great islamic scholars in the world, I have read his literature a lot and I find ur remakes baseless!!

        • Abd- Allah

          Kabbani is one of the very extreme sufis, and his deviant beliefs qualify him to be one of the top heretics in the world. Kabbani is a Naqshbandi, and he is the student of Nazim al-Qubrusi, one of the top innovators in the world today, whose followers give him the title “Malik ul-Mulk”.

          “This book provides the duas (prayers) that accompany salat (the 5-times daily worship) in the Way they are performed by Malik ul-Mulk Shaykh Mevlana Nazim al-Kibrisi and his khalifa Shaykh Abdul Kerim al-Kibrisi.”

          http://naksibendi.us/the-tarikat/practices/naksi-bendi-prayerbook

        • Not saying

          Lol……Kabbani. Sufis don’t really understand Islam.

  • another white brother

    the phrase “scholars for dollars” has been thrown out regarding a lot of people. i think we can all agree that there is not a more fitting example then of this guy.

    • Waqas

      For me this following guy sums it all up:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ulFGuXwTjU

      Sometimes our prejudices stops us from appreciating the services done by a man like Shaykh Tahir Qadri who literally did one of the most valuable services for this Ummah since 9/11.

      One of the most common comments made by non-Muslims on news-websites is that the Muslims have been slow to condemn terrorism but nevertheless:

      better late, then never!

      • another white brother

        MashaAllah that the mq brillos validate themselves by the kuffar. I have no innate prejudices against the guy (being a convert and all, i read just about all there is about him before i formed an opinion) so there goes that theory. The facts:

        1. He has no “authority” outside of his small sub group of brailvies
        2. Fataawa has already been produced from various scholars regarding this issue
        3. His fatwa amounts to nothing more than name-calling and casting aspersions on muslims as well as seeking a pat on the head by the western media.

  • hani abbas

    TQ is in no way qualified to give a dars let alone a fatwa! This bareilwi has succumbed to the glitz and glamour and the media and taking full advantage of the current climate. His aqa’id smell foul and his lectures are examplary in promoting shirk and bid’ah.

    As you can see from the video, his majlis are usually where shayateen and jinn partake in.

    Let us not give him any more media exposure.

    • http://www.sunnah.org Shahzaib

      sorry to say but tableegh of islam in maghrib is majorly supported by saudi wahabi cult and since i am in saudi for the past 9 years, I have 100 % proof of that. The wahabi / salafi cult is corrupt and they do noot get the basic idea of islam only the stinky version of wahaba / salafi movement.

      • Not saying

        Sufism probably smells pretty bad in Jahnnam because of all the innovation and grave worship.

  • akhee

    waqas, your vid contains swearing and mocking the deen

    • Abdullah

      One of the reasons for people supporting TQ is the fact that they are so eager to get the support and praises from the Kuffar that they don’t even care how many Muslims they trample on the way! Shame on these people who sell their religion for a share of this world. And they don’t care to give heed to the words of Allah (SWT) when He said:

      ولن ترضى عنك اليهود ولا النصارى حتى تتبع ملتهم قل إن هدى الله هو الهدى ولئن اتبعت أهواءهم بعد الذي جاءك من العلم ما لك من الله من وليّ ولا نصي


      And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, “Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance.” If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper.

      May Allah guide them to the truth.

  • http://muslimmatters.org/author/siraaj/ Siraaj

    That “Uncles Gone Wild” video was disturbing.

    Siraaj

    • abdullah

      hahaha

    • BintKhalil

      LOL!

    • Sayf

      very necessary comment

    • Sincerity

      By far, the most intelligent comment =D

  • suhail

    The worst part of his fatwa was when he said all deobandi’s and wahabis support terrorism. Anyways this guys is not even trusted among many barelwis. He is more of a joker than a real scholar. He mixes lies with truth just like the Ulema of Yahood. May Allah protect muslims from his fitan.

    • http://www.sunnah.org Shahzaib

      lol ur comment is hilarious my brother in islam, if you actually go in details you will find that all suicide bombings have been supported by deobandis / wahabi cult. Please correct me and prove me wrong if you can.

      • Abd- Allah

        lol ur comment is hilarious my brother in islam, if you actually go in details you will find that all suicide bombings have been supported by deobandis / wahabi cult. Please correct me and prove me wrong if you can.

        Why don’t you prove your own statements akhi, because you are the one who is making that claim.

        The Prophet peace be upon him said ” the burden of proof is upon the claimant “.

        So please do provide proof for your statement that salafis support suicide bombings. Oh, and don’t worry, I won’t hold my breath.

  • http://www.averagemuslim.com AsimG

    While I am the last one to defend the Barlewis, I think we are on dangerous grounds when a mainstream Muslim blog starts using ad hominem attacks against recognized scholars (at least within certain groups) like Dr. Qadri.

    Yes, we don’t like his aqeedah and we find his strange fiqh opinions to be troublesome, but it is not enough to dismiss his 600 page fatwa by showing him allegedly dancing or celebrating Christmas just as it is not enough to attack Shaykh Qardawi because of the misunderstood energy drink issue or to a lesser extent Shaykh Yasir Qadhi for the misunderstood holocaust comment or misquoted Islamic education in the West is best comment.

    Context and background must be known and presented for all these controversies before we attempt to use them as evidence to denounce a scholar for the general Muslim public (especially if they are unaware of all the intra-faith issues).

    As the comments shown in the quoted blog, Dr. Qadri has an entire chapter dedicated to the “salafi” scholars fatawa against suicide bombing so it can’t all be bad? :P

    He is what he is. We shouldn’t expect him to tone down his rhetoric against Deobandis and ‘Salafis” just as our scholars will not stop criticizing the Barlewi sect and the weird opinions they advocate.

    BUT it has to be done on a theological and academic level or we will only further the vicious cycle of laymen using disrespectful rhetoric and unfounded/misquoted attacks against ALL the scholars.

    • http://muslimmatters.org/author/amad/ Amad

      I don’t think you know enough about Brelwis to be honest. This guy is a charlatan, and we don’t have to pretend to respect every person, just because that person has a following. I am sure Ed Hussain has a following. I am sure “Shaykh” Faisal has a following, and so does “Shaykh Osama”… do I need to show great respect to fatwas emanating from them? My uncle’s nameplate outside his home has a slew of “yas” in it, “ya ali”, “ya muhammad”, “ya fatima”, “Ya hussain”. Inside his home, he has photos of this Tahir, just like the aga khanis have of their mahdi. He is playing the part of Ahmad Raza in this day and age. Ahmad Raza was the British-occupier appeaser. Tahir is the British-psychologically-occupier appeaser.

      Secondly, anyone attacking another group of Muslims as part of a sell-job on a fatwa doesn’t deserve much respect.

      That’s all I have to say on this, really. It is not important to be a contrarian in every issue. Some are indeed straight forward.

      Finally, and I can’t stress this enough and it really bothers me when people continue to insist on this. EVERY post is ONLY the responsibility of the author. It does not reflect the opinion of other authors, neither is it endorsed by other authors. This “mainstream” blog has a spectrum of writers, some who may well agree with you, and others who have a worse opinion of Tahir than me. So, if people have an issue with a post, please get over the “this reflects badly on the blog” or “this reflects badly upon the scholars”. No. It doesn’t.

      • Uthman

        +1 mashAlla nice!

      • http://www.sunnah.org Shahzaib

        what do u know about bralwei’s m8? Again th low level of thinking we are stuck in deobandi bralwe crap. Prove his fatwa wrong first and for that you have to read it in detail which I am sure you have not. Second are you up to that scholistic level to tear apart his fatwa? if you are then discuss in details and with valid support from Quran and Sunnah. Let me clear I am not in any case followe of Sheikh but again I live in heart of the salafi land saudi arabia and I know their real picture and their version of wahabi / salafi movement of islam.
        Jazak Allah Khairan

    • Abd- Allah

      attacks against recognized scholars

      May I ask you akhi AsimG, which scholars recognize this man as a scholar?

    • abdullah

      tahir is an idiot that criticized imaam al albaani for writing a tkhreej of al adab al mufrad. can you believe an ignorant somebody like tahir criticizing shaykh al albaani? you cannot even compare there knwledge levels. NO SCHOLAR HAS EVER PRAISED TAHIR!

  • Uthman

    Interestingly, the TQ followers insist that they are not making sujood but doing “qadam bosi”(Translation: kissing the feet of the revered scholar). What is apparent is that some may be indeed kissing the feet but the fact remains some are definitely making sajdah to him.

    Either way, if they are kissing his feet or if they are making sajdah both are WRONG. One can see the entire environment and its elements are problematic. Wallah u ta3ala a3lam

  • Abd- Allah

    Anyone who is wondering why the Muslims are in the current state of humiliation and weakness in the world, then watch the video and you will find your answer there.

  • Torq

    Assalamu Alaikum

    That video alone creates many issues in my mind towards Tahir AlQadri. The human Fitra, and the rational mind simply oppose such strange behaviour. Even the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did not receive nor ask for such treatment.

    However, we should not hang out our dirty laundry.

    Like it or not, such people exist within Islam, and within AhlusSunnah – which we sometimes like to boast is the largest “denomination” on the face of the earth. There is a time and place to deal with our internal problems within Islam, but never bring outsiders into it, especially when they are ideologically opposed to the deen, and would love to capitalize on any internal divisions.

    But there is a question to which I do not know the answer, what do you do if your own adversaries from within Islam bring in the outsiders and defame you? Playing their game splits Islam and plays into the hands of Islamophobes. Ignoring them may result in their ideas spreading, and you demonized … So what is one to do?

  • Student

    al-salamu `alaikum

    Than you Br. Amad for a pretty non-beneficial post. It has added nothing of substance, but does the same thing Tahirul Qadir is accused of doing: attacking the “sufi” boogeyman with references to “kissing feet” and “qawali”.

    But, of course, it ignores that Mufti Muhammad Shafi, the great Deobandi and father of Mufti Taqi, allowed kissing the feet of scholars in his Jawahir al-Fatawa, and this is the Hanafi position. It ignores Imam Ashraf `Ali Thanwi’s explicit statement about Chishti sama` (spiritual audition) that he is “not a denier of it but one who does not practice it”, Not only that, but it completely ignores a scholarly discussion on the issue, for obvious reasons that such a discussion is not possible from every day blog posters.

    Dr. Tahirul Qadiri is not a “Barelwi”. Are there issues with some of the claims associated with him and certain positions he holds? No doubt. There is a vast difference between a scholarly rebuttal that does not scream of “angry nufus” and a non-scholarly rant that does.

    All that has to be said is that your comments demonstrate quite clearly that you do not know the Deobandi or the Barelwis or much of anything less.

    ma` al-salam

    • http://muslimmatters.org/author/siraaj/ Siraaj

      Isn’t it rather disconcerting that you spend more time clarifying why it is you can bow with an intent to this one, or call out or stand in front of a grave with a specific intent to that one (mind you, not a prophet or messenger or companion, but personalities who have made the sainthood according to scholars you follow), and not on how you can better worship Allah alone?

      Doesn’t it also bother you that regardless of the nuance you add to your action, the masses just don’t “get it” and they end up worshiping these so-called saints anyway? Reminds of the statues the people of Nuh (AS) worshiped, which were originally carvings of righteous people meant to inspire better worship out of the people – it wasn’t that the new rule was clarify what statues are for, it was, no more building statues of living beings because it’s too easy to fall into worshiping them.

      Something for the thinking among you to consider.

      Siraaj

      • Zuhayr

        jazakAllah khaira

      • Student

        al-salamu `aleikum

        The aim was to show that many condemn without recourse to our legal tradition, which is flimsy and dangerous in itself. This post is being read, for the most apart I assume, by intelligent, western Muslims, not grave-visiting local men from Ajmer, India, such that the primary relevance is not towards the “masses who just dont get it” but to people like you and me who apparently do.

        The only confusion that can arise by such a post is a view that “kissing the feet” of scholars is impermissible in our legal tradition, which gets the masses in our part of the world all riled up and condemnatory in regards to those who hold otherwise. Our problem is not grave-worship, not that anyone worships graves anyways, but ignorance and a lack of balance regarding our tradition, which stems from such “boogeyman” based, non-technical, generalized discussions and comments.

        So, no, it is not disconcerting. It is actually quite reassuring that people can look at practices through the lens of recognized scholarship, like say the Hanafi school, rather than pass judgment based on the outward form of one’s act that just doesnt seem to fit in one’s perception of Islam… as if our rigid methodology boils down to such simplistic principles.

        ma` al-salam

        • mateen

          Our “legal tradition” is derived from the Ahl al Hadeeth NOT Ahl al Kalam and Ahl al Bid’ah. I do not have to remind you of the inumerous ahadeeth in which the Prophet (SAW) blocked all ways leading to shirk. Even in his dying moments he cursed the Jews and Christians for making the graves of their Prophet’s as a place of worship (more can be read here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/15148308/Prophets-Protection-of-Tawheed)

          I leave you with this last (but not least) hadeeth taken from Sunan of Abu Daw’ud:

          The Prophet (SAW) “came out once leaning on a stick and a group of people stood up (out of mark of respect), he (SAW) said: ‘Don’t stand up as foreigners stand up exalting each other therewith.”

          These acts of exhaltation are acts of the kuffar and we do not imitate them.

          Every detail of exhaltation and respect and honour that was given to the Prophet (SAW) was done so out of his blessed being and his unparelleled peak of human perfection as a Prophet and Messenger. These types of acts are not accorded to anyone else from the ummah.

          Last but not least, this is a fatwa from our ulema regarding this matter:

          http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/133487/kissing%20forehead

          Wallaahu ta’la a’lam.
          Mateen

        • suhail

          Well did the deobandi Ulema also support of celebrating christmas and cutting cake on that day. Regarding the Qawali issue than in the hanafi fiqh is it haram to use musical instrument but anyways who gives a damn. Just follow what some scholars have to say while throwing the fiqh down the drain.

          By the way according to Ahmed Raza Khan Barelwi most of the deobandi elders are anyways Kuffar. Did you not know that?

          Anyways this guy Tahir ul Qadri has lumped all the masses of muslims as terrorist. Amazing how he turns on the Ummah of Muhammad(SAW) when he sees the opportunity to get in the lime light among the kuffar.

          Even the barelwis are running away from him.

        • http://muslimmatters.org/author/siraaj/ Siraaj

          And perhaps that’s the flaw in such ivory tower ideals – your perspective and understanding of human experience is so deeply entrenched in books that it fails to account for a horizontal and vertical treatment of the behavior across time and culture.

          Many of us come from so-called “edcuated” western backgrounds, but our understanding of the religion collectively is not so nuanced as you assume – many in the West learn Islam from their parents, who learned it from back home, who have these deviant ideas in mind, and practice them. Had it not been for some good brothers who corrected my own understanding in college, I myself would have been one of those calling out for direct help to random individuals who I knew nothing about for help (though to be fair to myself, it didn’t make sense to me).

          Do the math – if those of us in the West who are supposed to be “better” due to our education, how do you think the rest of the Muslim world is doing? Your thinking doesn’t scale well at all. It doesn’t account for the loss of information as the proposed action moves from the scholar to the layman, and from one generation to the next. It simply destroys the Iman of millions upon millions of individuals who “don’t get it”.

          Do you really think all that foot-kissing was done with the intent of respect like kissing the hand or head of a respected shaykh, and without devotional elements to it? I would hardly say so, and given that Amad had mentioned both the picture hanging along with the foot-kissing, I think it’s obvious what he’s criticizing.

          Very honestly, the mainstream Muslim, east or west, doesn’t need a 20 page explanation on why or how to properly stand in front of a grave and make tawassul through the dead, or antiquated manners of the past that are currently on a warpath of ruining the iman of Muslims – they need simple, straightforward guidelines on establishing iman and focusing their devotional energies to Allah alone, period.

          Siraaj

          • Student

            al-salamu aleikum

            Our understanding is not nuanced because our discourse is built on rejecting positions and people based on methodologically empty rhetoric of “pleasing kuffar” or being “engaged in shirk” or “kissing hands” and so forth.

            This is the main problem with this whole post and the subsequent comments: it seeks to condemn an individual for setting up boogeymen but then sets up a dozen more to condemn that very person.

            I find myself asking: what is the scholarly problem with the verdict itself? Are the sources that he is using unsound or misrepresented? Is the legal methodological framework he is operating within suspect? Is it supported by the texts and the verdicts of relied upon scholars or not?

            No one addresses this because no one has a clue to what the answers are, but they insist on posting post after post mentioning aspects of little consideration in the discussion. And if this was only about his comments on Deobandis and dangerously generalized statements, address that issue without dragging in irrelevancies.

            You wish to teach people “straightforward guidelines” but does that only relate to what is bdia` and shirk or more pertinent issues of adab, `ilm, knowing your role and rank, and sticking to what benefits one?

            As I stated initially, I have no doubts that Dr. Tahir has held some questionable positions. His book on Ghadir Khumm demonstrates a number of problems, but not because he allows people to “kiss his hands” or because he is a “shi`a pleaser” but because of forged narratives, incorrect ascriptions, and contradicting the jamhur.

            As for kissing hands, you can assume all you like whether it has a “devotional element” that exceeds mere intent for respect or not. The fact is that the scholars prescribed it, backed it, and it has been practiced for centuries. Rather than condemn the practice based on personal assumptions, which are inaccurate (I have been to many saintly tombs around the world, have asked many people there about their beliefs, and know well what people intend when they kiss hands, since it is done all around where I live), why not give them the “simple, straightforward guidance” in the form of teaching them sound belief, which would itself correct this supposed excessive element of devotion. Instead, you seek to throw out the ruling with the fiqh from the very get go… and seek to condemn a scholar because he permits a position permitted by the giants of our Ummah.

            A boogeyman.

            That is all I have to say. Thank’s for your comments and time.

            ma` al-salam

          • http://muslimmatters.org/author/amad/ Amad

            Student, I guess when the messenger has such serious flaws, it is natural to not really give the message much credence. For instance, if I told you that Robert Spencer (an exaggeration but it addresses the point) has written a great book about dhimmis. Would you really give much credibility to it? Or if Kabbani wants to issue a fatwa against terrorism. No matter how good or how bad, it is tough to move past the persona here.

            And I think that is ultimately the point here. Let’s assume the “fatwa” is fabulous. But the fact that the messenger who carries this message has such serious image issues, and then gift-wraps the “fatwa” with massive stereotyping of a large chunk of Muslims, makes the entire issue quite useless.

            Finally think about this. What is the purpose of the edict? Who is it addressing? I guarantee you that the takfeeris and the neokhawarij who are the terrorists of today consider Tahir a kafir, and consider his fatwa as acceptable as a fatwa from George Bush. Moreover, IF Tahir is right (and I believe he is dead wrong) and the deobandis/wahhabis are all well-wishers of terrorists, by Tahir’s stereotyping, do you think that this group that is the “prime” candidate for terrorism will give two hoots about what he says? Thus, this entire fatwa, the fanfare around it, the Quilliam participation, etc. is basically a drama to divide and rule… a chapter from RAND foundation’s report. Read it, and you’ll see this entire episode in a much clearer light.

            Peace out.

          • http://muslimmatters.org/author/siraaj/ Siraaj

            Walaykum as salaam student,

            Amad makes no criticism of the fatwa in his post – you’ve read in your own biases. If you can point out where the fatwa is criticized, please show it.

            And I made no criticism of hand kissing as I know it’s well-established as well – it seems you read in more than is said (and then you wonder about the misunderstandings of the masses, lol).

            Siraaj

          • Umar

            @Student
            Look at the video above. It should be enough for you to figure out why he is really a deviant. People making sajdah, music concert with Shirkiyya poetry. What do you need as proof? Be objective.

            @Pakistani MD

            Same thing. I think the video and his sermons are enough proof of his deviance.

        • Abd- Allah

          the Hanafi school

          If you think that this is a matter of fiqh akhi, then it is not. Even though many sufis throughout the world today follow the hanafi madhab, but that doesn’t make what they practice part of the madhab, for certainly, not all hanafis are sufis. These are issues of Aqeedah, not of fiqh, and so they are not minor issues that can simply be overlooked.

  • Abdul Mohsin

    I apologise if this post offends people but wallahi this makes my blood boil.

    Some people really choose to keep their head in the sand. I come from a bareilawi background and alhamdulilah Allah guided me and my family out of it 10 years ago but my relatives are hard core worshippers of this guy, and i say worshippers whilst meaning exactly that.

    This guy is a dajaal, this is the same clown who mocked the prophet salilahu alaihee wasalaam when he made that famous speech about him salilahu alaihee wasalaam coming to pakistan (faisalabad) and needing money for the ticket and hotel stay. he robbed people of hundreds of thousands of pounds with this lie. The same prophet salilahu alaihee wasalaam that used to sleep rough was shown by this dajaal to be desperate for money and portrayed as a beggar, may Allah forgive us.

    • hamayoun

      Salam Abdul Mohsin

      Can you tell us a little more about that, please? That’s the first I’ve heard of it.

    • Not saying

      May Allah bless you for leaving despicable Barelvism. May Allah guide Muslims out of the darkness of Barelvism and other evils.

  • Zuhayr

    that looks like a sajda but maybe the person was putting his head down because of being overcome by emotion and Dr Tahir ul-Qadri was patting him on the back to calm him down. Allah knows best what actually happened but I thought we were supposed to give our muslim brothers the benefit of the doubt.
    Allah forgive me

    • suhail

      Benefit of doubt is given to people of character not known liars.

  • http://muslimology.wordpress.com Dawud Israel

    Looks like someone is feeling denounced.

    You should listen to AsimG. Its strange to see the comments here, and then compare them to the comments on Tantawi…why the disparity? Not Arab enough for you? Whether you like it or not, this post DOES represent this entire blog and your saying it doesn’t, does not prove otherwise, unless you put it on the top logo.

    This fatwa looks strange to us in NA but its meant for their country and if this helps ease tensions in their country then is there something wrong with that? I take it you know better then TQ about terrorism and Islam in his country? Amad’s post reads classic TROID-style su’u ud-dhun lashing out to me. Grow above these stupid low-brow tendencies. Stop nurturing this resentment and purile hatred. Stop making ‘hatred’ your shaykh. Let the baggage go. You’re hampering Islamic development just as much as this stupid fatwa is. Shrug it off. Stop attracting all the brainless haters.

    If you get excited and feel all heroic every time you hear the word Salafi or Wahabi or Saudi Arabia or Ibn Taymiyyah or Sect, then don’t be surprised when people start to question your intentions.

    • Abd- Allah

      Wow! Questioning his intentions and accusing him of su’u ud-dhun and causing hate just because he wrote this post to defend millions of Muslims who have been falsely accused and stereotyped by one man. I think you are approaching this issue with your emotions brother Dawud rather than with your mind and from an Islamic perspective.

      • Abû Mûsâ Al-Ḥabashî

        Agreed. A lot of emotion, little substance.

        It’s a false comparison to compare the criticism of this fatwa to the announcement of the death of Sh. Tantawi. The difference in the comments obviously has nothing to do with how Arab he is. A more accurate comparison would be to Sh. Yasir Qadhi’s criticism of Sh. Tantawi’s action regarding the female student.

        Also, it’s been a while, but I don’t think I’ve ever read an article published by TROID where they attacked the intentions of people. Whatever disagreements you have with them, don’t let it cause you to be unfair.

    • http://muslimmatters.org/author/amad/ Amad

      I love you too, Dawud.

      -your salafi/wahhabi/taymi/saudi brother

      • http://muslimmatters.org/author/siraaj/ Siraaj

        Don’t forget deobandi

      • http://muslimology.wordpress.com Dawud Israel

        This isn’t a defense, this is too cheap and easily replaceable to be called a defense. Its overdone. Its just another ad-hoc easy to forget piece of work, and this fatwa will be forgotten quickly too.

        I love you too bro.

        That’s why I’m saying: Push the discussion to a higher level. I avoid these topics, so all I say, is if you are going to discuss it, take it a higher level so as to create some confidence for the next generation to pick up on. Don’t keep spinning the same old wheels.

        Our kids are going to look at us and evaluate the merit of what we did. What are you leaving them? Defend the future dammit!

        -your salafi/wahabi/taymi/saudi/deobandi/sufi/coconut/silly brother

        “In some parts of the world, whenever there is cohesion in the sect or discursive tradition [madhhab] and those who vie for political office fear that they will fail to engender subservience, they proceed to invent issues! They then create the impression that it is necessary to create division and promote prejudice. So some people will dispute whether the official flag should be black or red. One group will say: “The true flag is black.” Another will it’s the red one!” And so the goals of the leaders are accomplished in making the masses subservient to the extent of getting them entangled in a false conflict. While the masses mistakenly believe it to be a vital matter, the leadership knows fully what the real purpose was in fabricating this matter.” -Imam Ghazali

    • yahya

      We do not hate for the sake of hating. Our loving and hating is for the sake of Allaah. From your comments, I doubt very much you are familiar with TQ’s works and speeches, otherwise you would see how blatantly he promotes shirk and bid’ah in less of a covert fashion that his fellow bareilwi/sufi. Where we see a wrong, we denounce it because this stuff is not something from an unknown individual, it is coming from an influentional (wannabe khalifah) person in Pakistan.

  • Baasel

    Asalamu alaykum,

    Amad we disagree on many issues. But we agree on this one!

    Jazak’Allah Khair bro. See you in Pak soon…

  • Sara

    i actually feel like crying after watching the video :(

  • sara

    Read and you will come to know the reality of this man:

    http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=6669

  • asif shakoor

    If shaykh al-Islam Tahir al-Qadri is breilwi and brelwis celebrate the mawlid of the prophet what would you say about shaykh ali tantawi of egypt and shaykh nazim of cyprus, shaykh umar bin hafeez of yemen and shaykh yusuf ibn al-hashim al-rifai of kuwait they all celebrate the mawlid. it is only pathetic deobandis etc that do not celebrate the mawlid. Would you label the arab shaykhs who celebrate the mawlid as brelwis? Of course Shaykh al-Islam Tahir al-Qadri is of mainstream Islam whether the deobandis like it or not you certainly are a minority

    • Abd- Allah

      Thanks for listing the top innovators in the world bro.

      • Abdullah

        LOOOOOOOL :)

        Can’t stop laughing !!

        May Allah guide those who have gone astray and expose their faults to their followers.

    • Syncere

      - The matter is not in regards to which label to put people under if those individuals practice it.

      - The matter is clear that the practice is an innovated practice that the Prophet [sallahu alaihi wa salaam] his Companions [May Allah be pleased with them all] & nor did the Imams [may Allah have mercy upon them all] ever practice/celebrate it.

      - Rather those people who practice these events such as Mawlid, they have erred since it was never done and to say that it is something that is “khayr”. Allah and His Messenger knew at that time what was best and good for the Ummah, it didn’t need people to invent such a practice!

      And in all honesty, this is how it begins, people start thinking this is “okay” to do but then it leads to graver things in the religion later on! May Allah protect us from this ignorance!

    • Syncere

      To mention Tahir al-Qadri amongst mainstream Islaam is a joke since his aqeedah goes against the majority of scholars of ahlus-sunnah wa al-jama’ah. His aqeedah opposes it and we ask Allah [subhanahu wa ta'ala] for assistance.

      He has a vendetta against those who follow the Salaf of this Ummah. As far as Deobandi’s, Allah knows best as to why he has such a hatred towards them.

      This video clearly shows the ignorance of his followers. If he was truly titled: “shaykhul-islaam”, I don’t think a humble man would be having followers as such going nuts and dancing.

      It sorta looks to me like what sikhs/hindu’s do at their mandir’s/temples!

    • http://muslimology.wordpress.com Dawud Israel

      Not censuring or censoring these comments is OK? Double standard?

    • Not saying
  • PakistaniMD

    This is really odd, considering that I have heard that Qadri has visited numerous times the Deboand HQ in Karachi…

    Also, everyone is condemning him for his statements on Deobandis (which I am not, by the way) and Salafis, but not discussing the focus of article: the fatwa. If you disagree with his statements, does automatically mean you disagree with his fatwa (which some would definitely describe as more thorough than most of the many, many rulings against terrorism)?

    Lastly, according to some Barelvi followers of Tahir al Qadru, the fatwa he released in London w/ the support of the Quilliam Foundation is a highly edited one. His original fatwa is said to also have the deoband’s view on terrorism (which we all know is negative; they just don’t publicly denounce acts of terrorism, which quite shameful, since I believe that if they condemn and publicly challenge Mullah Omar’s brutal Taliban faction, the violence in Pakistan may decrease). TaQ also had a section on how the West’s foreign policy may also be playing a role in fomenting extremism in the Middle East. This section was not present in the “final” fatwa released in London…. See Indigo Jo’s post and comment section of that post.

    • ex-ht

      it is also endorsed by the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia whose article in support of this Fatwa was on the front page of a very prominent Saudi Newspaper.

    • suhail

      Well who cares what Tahir ul Padri has to say anyways. He is a big liar and a deviant. Nothing more can be said about him.

      Also his supporters are people from Quillam Foundation who wants to change this whole deen from within. Sorry brother PakistanMD but we do not believe in charlatans like Tahir ul Padri and Quillam.

      There have been countless fatwa regarding condemnation of terrorism so he hasn’t come with something new. His is just a tactic to get into lime light.

      • PakistaniMD

        I agree with your statement on the Quilliam Foundation; I find them unrepresentative of Muslim opinion. However, your unilateral statement (with no evidence) is wrong; you cannot call Mr. Qadri a deviant without giving evidence as to why you think he is one.

        Still, no one has commented on the possibility that he might have been duped by the Quilliam Foundation. While I do think that some accusations against him on inciting sectarian divisions in Britain are well-founded, one can argue that on a practical POV, nothing has changed.

        • suhail

          What evidence do you need. That he calls to shirk, promotes grave worshipping among his followers, calls muslims as kuffar and deviants (i.e. deobandis and salafis). He lies on the Prophet(SAW) so many times that he cannot be relied upon. Celebrating christmas by cutting cakes with the chrisitans. Do you want me to name some more of his acts?

          Please do not tell me he is such a simple character who does not know Quillam. QF is famous in england and his collobaration with them cannot be taken as him being naive about there agenda.

        • Abd- Allah

          you cannot call Mr. Qadri a deviant without giving evidence as to why you think he is one.

          You know there is a saying in Arabic that roughly says: proving the obvious is a problem. Meaning if something is clear and obvious, and yet for some reason it still needs to be explained for some people to understand it, then that is a problem.

        • Abd- Allah

          Still, no one has commented on the possibility that he might have been duped by the Quilliam Foundation.

          If he is that ignorant that he might possibly be duped into something, then maybe he shouldn’t be leading the masses to begin with!

  • omar

    here are some people who received ijaaza from this deviant scholar

    * Shaykh Habib Ali Zain al-Abideen al-Jifri
    * Shaykh Abdul Hakim Murad
    * Shaykh Babikir Ahmed Babikir
    * Shaykh Abdal Aziz Fredricks
    * Shaykh Faisal Hamid Abdur-Razzak
    * Mufti al-Azam Shaykh `Abdur Razzaq as-Sa’di (Head Mufti of Baghdad, Iraq)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahir-ul-Qadri

  • ex-ht

    All i can say to you all is:

    “A million right intentions cannot correct a wrong action”

    Terrorism is terrorism and there is no place in Islam for it. So leave our religion alone, the war to take our religion back from terrorists and extreamists who use slogans like the ones you have above has started. Our religion is of Love, peace, unity and harmony…. if its not for you, please feel free to become a terrorist or whatever you like… either way you will be pushing yourself out of the embit of Islam by causing false Harm under your ideology.

    Preach & practice a message of peace and tollerance and you will do Islam far more a favour than what these terrorist seem to be wasting their life falsely thinking of Shahadah in the Name of Islam however in reality they are on their way to hell fire. Your thinking is not helpful to the solidarity of Islam, i say again, leave our religion Islam alone as your thinking is more of a threat to it than the westerners or zionists you keep mentioning in your ideologies.

    Over the next few years, us peaceful and tolerant Muslim MAJORITY will snatch our religion back from the so called MINORITY terrorist hijackers. I suggest you join this cause and quit your jibber jabber, if’s and but’s, us and them slogans.

    • suhail

      No wonder you have gone from HT to idiocacy.

    • sara

      ex-ht, I think you need to read the Qur’an properly with full tafseer AND look through the whole Seerah of our Prophet (SAW) to see the fallacy of your comments.

      You sound strikingly similar to the two clowns heading QF.

  • s

    The you tube clip is disgusting….i seriously don’t know which religion these people are a part of…

  • Hafiza Khatun

    Please talk on the points Dr. Qadri put forward in his fatwa. Don’t indulge in character assasination.

    • Gohar

      If people aren’t concentrating on Qadri’s refutation of what he calls terrorism, then there’s no one to blame but him. If he had stuck to the his topic rather than cast hateful aspersions over other muslims then this discussion would not be taking place.

  • Khalid Mahmood

    When Dr. Tahirul Qadri travels on a plane, he always leaves a seat beside him empty. When asked why he does that, he said, “Because Prophet Muhammad sits beside me when I travel.”

    Sufism is a great tool to dupe the ignorant masses and to rob them of their hard earned money.

    • Middle Ground

      Salam Bro

      I do not doubt you, but do you have some evidence for this? If it’s true, then no more need be said about this man.

      • Abd- Allah

        Akhi Middle Ground, it seems that you don’t know the reality of sufism. Most sufis believe that the Prophet peace be upon him attends their “hadhra” (gatherings) in person, and they believe that he (peace be upon him) is personally there with them. That is why they call it a hadhra, the term in Arabic means “presence”, so they believe that the Prophet peace be upon him attends their gatherings and is present there with them! You will find in many of such gatherings two empty chairs, one for the Prophet peace be upon him, and the other for the shaykh of their tariqah as they claim.

        Brother Khalid Mahmood said it well:

        Sufism is a great tool to dupe the ignorant masses and to rob them of their hard earned money.

        but I add, to rob them of their brains and intellect as well…

        • Middle Ground

          Salam

          As I am sure you are aware, we are supposed to verify any information before we treat it as true. Muslims are not supposed to believe every single word told to them. Again, I would like to see evidence for this claim made about Tahir Ul Qadri.

          • Abd- Allah

            Walaykum Assalam

            Yes akhi I am aware of that we should verify things that we hear, but these are known facts about sufism. Ask the sufis themselves, they won’t deny it, or better yet read their books, you will find all the evidence you need in there.

  • Hafiza Khatun

    We should suspend name calling and demonize others who differ from us in our understanding of Islam. We certainly can engage in debates and discussions with civility and maintaining proper decorum and decency. We have plenty of examples in our fiqh tradition that different scholars had entirely differennt opinion, but they never allowed them to indulge in any kind of judgement about others. That is the principle of Islamic ethics. But unfortunately we are seeing a different ball game. If you are not with me then you are against me. Wahabis are demons, Sufis are deviant, traditionalists are devoid of intelligence etc. I appeal to all of you to maintain proper Islamic decorum while passing judgements against others who hold different views than ours.

    • Abd- Allah

      We have plenty of examples in our fiqh tradition

      Not that I disagree with what you said, but just to clarify, these differences here are not matters of fiqh for us to overlook them. These are differences in the basis of our deen and in the fundamentals of understanding Islam. Also it is not disrespectful to say about sufi beliefs that they are deviant, because some of their beliefs are extreme and even heresy, like the sufis calling their shaykh Nazim “Malik ul-Mulk” is not something that we can accept and treat this belief of theirs with respect.

  • Farhan

    With all due respect to the author (who is the MAN Amad! barak Allah feek) I think this is NOT the kind of article we should focus on. Criticize the behavior, not the individual. Granted, the video at times is disturbing. But, it gives fuel to the enemies of Islam. Its like airing out our dirty laundry. I spend a lot of time giving Da’wah to the Ahmadis (Qadianis) and they use this kind of stuff all the time to say “See! You Muslims are Mushrikeen”.

    • Abd- Allah

      One thing that we need to realize is that the people of innovation are from the enemies of Islam, they are more dangerous to the pure Islamic beliefs than the enemies who are not Muslims, because they are corrupting the deen from the inside. The Qadianis have a point when they say “See! You Muslims are Mushrikeen”, but the fact that some Muslims fall into committing acts of shirk does not make what the Qadianis believe true. They are trying to prove that they are correct just because these people are wrong. It is like the Jews saying that their beliefs are true just because the Christians are worshiping Jesus peace be upon him. Know how to refute the Qadianis bro, without having to remain silent about other innovators.

  • http://www.salafimanhaj.com AbdulHaq

    Where is the “fatwa” anyway? What language is it in and where is it accessible for public viewing and consumption? Surely something of 600 pages should be made available for review and perusal? Quilliam Foundation “launched” it but absolutely no details whatsoever have been given in regards to the document’s availability and access.

    But as has been noted, in regards to what has been seen in the clip provided, the fitrah, naql and aql rejects such practices which have no textual proof whatsoever for their endorsement. As for attempts to justify such actions by reference to the Hanafi madhhab, then this appears to be erroneous, as the only Hanafi scholars referred to are mainly restricted to the Indian sub-continent of the last few centuries.

  • mali

    the video link is not working…..it seems Minhaj al Quran has claimed copyrights… I want to see the video is there any other way???????

  • Reality

    Actually, Tahir ul-Qadri has done what many Pakistani scholars haven’t been able to do — speak against terrorism in Pakistan. This can only be complimented. Which other Pakistani scholars are condemning terrorism in Pakistan? Hardly any. Those that have are mostly Barelwi. Let’s keep these facts in mind and see things in context before criticizing him.

    Reality

    • http://muslimmatters.org/author/amad/ Amad

      Which other Pakistani scholars are condemning terrorism in Pakistan? Hardly any.

      Well, if you would get out of the Barelwi circle, you’ll find a aplenty:

      How about 20,000 scholars of Deobandi school of thought? A few too much for “hardly any”, mate?

      • Reality

        Amad: Read more carefully:

        “Which other Pakistani scholars are condemning terrorism in Pakistan? Hardly any.”

        The 20,000 scholars you refer to were mostly Indian — not Pakistani — and the Conference was in India. Try paying attention to the question this time, “mate”.

        I am not Barelwi. I will save you the embarrassment by not asking you how you reached that conclusion.

        Cheers,
        Reality

        • http://muslimmatters.org/author/amad/ Amad

          Even if 10% of the scholars in that meeting (and assuredly there were more) were Pakistanis, that would be 2000. Still a bit more than “hardly any”.

          It doesn’t matter if you are Barelwi or not, but what you are stating is not backed by facts.

          Here is some more for you:
          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711003.stm

          Mufti Rafi Usmani heads Darul Uloom Karachi, one of Pakistan’s most respected religious schools, or madrassas.

          “Islam does not allow killing of innocent civilians and non-combatants under any circumstances,” he said in an interview with the BBC News website.

          • Reality

            Amad, you said:

            “Even if 10% of the scholars in that meeting (and assuredly there were more) were Pakistanis, that would be 2000.”

            You know as well as I do that your statement above is mere speculation and not “backed by facts”. Don’t pretend it is.

            Regarding Muhammad Rafi Usmani, “hardly any” is not the same as none. So my point remains.

    • Abd- Allah

      Reality is, brother Reality, that it doesn’t take a Pakistani scholar specifically to condemn terrorism in Pakistan or anywhere else. It can be done by any scholar from Ahl Assunnah Wal Jama’ah from anywhere in the world. Or any other Muslim can do so for that matter!

  • Shiraz

    Bismillah hir Rahmanirahim

    I am confused as to why all of you are so offended? 50% of the population in Pakistan is Brelwis, whilst the dobandis and the shi imamis are 20 odd per cent each. And since you claim the shi’as are with him, that means 70% of muslims in Pakistan agree with his views.

    The Deobandis, Salafis, Wahabhists are extremely intolerant and share many aspects of the Khawarij sect, I don’t like to stereotype any muslim but let us be honest, when we hear of a muslim murdering muslims in terrorist attacks or we hear of a Mosque being blown up in Pakistan, it is usually most definetely a deobandi taliban loving dude. Do you deny that?

    Im sorry if my deobandi brothers feel offended, but why don’t adopt tolerance and take from Rasulallah’s sunnah rather than the Khawarij Taliban.

    Ws

  • Abu Yumna

    AoA my dear brothers.

    Hope you will be fine and in good state of health and E-man by the Grace of Allah Almighty.

    i have read the above comments. but unfortunately, i have not got any proper satistaction. I wonder why do we have forget our real Islam… we do not know the essence of Islam. it really made me much amazed to read the comments. i wonder why do we forget the respect of any one who is our elder… no matter who so ever it is… what kind of islam does teach us to talk like that without any respect. Even i have heard lot of people . . . when they talk about Imam ibn Tayeemiyah Rahmatullah Alayh, imam ibn ul Qayyam Rahmatullah Alayh or anyone else like them they do not pay any respect to them, they do not say Rahmatullah Alayh… Alass ! again Alass !. We are followin gThis is our biggest fault. we must have to accept that. We can never be successful unless we follow the true essence of Qur’an and Sunnah. its wonder.. why we go against any one who we do not like. is this Islam..??? Is this the teaching of Islam..?? i do not want to indulge in any debate. just to release my views with regards to the above statements. i do not wanna fall in any sect (Firqah). I need only Islamic teaching…. i have Al-Hamdulillah read and listened to a large number of Islamic scholars (may Allah Almighty bless His Rahmat on them) of the world. the main thing i have grasped is that there is shortage of authentice references given by the scholars except Shaykh ul Islam Dr. Muhammad Tahir ul Qadri. it makes no difference what he does, write or says But one thing that is found is that he prooves every thing with authentic references. none of the scholares have done any work which he has done. No one can deny, refute or challenge his references. He knows what is Shirk, Bid’ah etc… We study only one , two , four or ten then start giving our Fatwas. once some one studies his work then he stops talking or remains silent. little we know little we say correct. first of all read his books, listen to his speeches and then fine out any wrong thing. The referenes given in his Fatwa can never be challenged. and who challenged… he is suppose to provide the reference too. i have listened to many scholars, bralvi, dubanid, wahhabi.. some of them do not use proper language for one another… what is this… this is nothing but lack of knowledge of true concept of Islam. WE have forgot to endure one’s talking. we have lost courage to bear some one…

    I believe this is our duty in light of Allah’s command and Rasool Allah’s instructions that we should not scatter any news without proper research. Especially if some news involve respect of any person. And when it comes to an Alim-e-Deen, our duty increases even more.

    Here is the Quranic verse I would like to refer:

    O Believers! If some wicked person brings you any news, inquire thoroughly into its truth (lest) you should cause (undue) harm to a people unknowingly, and later feel regret for what you have done. (Ch. 49, V. 6)

    Similarly there are Hadiths of Rasool Allah (PBUH) suggesting doing research before spreading any news.

    So brother, all of us (including myself) should do extreme care before spreading any such news, especially when it is realted to any scholar.

    Thank you May Allah Almighty bless His special Rahmat. Ameen.

    Wassalam

    Abu Yumna (Shahid Hamid)

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