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By Anas Hlayhel
The title of this post is a question often asked these days. The so-called experts on Islam seem to almost concur on some link between Islam and violence. Though it’s hard to exonerate any of those experts from a political agenda or sometimes a pure hatred for Islam and/or Muslims, it still remains a valid question that every Muslim should be able to answer for himself or herself and for others. Does Islam condone violence? Is Islam to blame for the rise of terrorist activities? Even if we’re able to clear the name of Islam, clearing Muslims from it is another challenge.
In our times, the saying, “not every Muslim is a terrorist, but every terrorist is a Muslim,” has almost become a cliché. While we Muslims know this is not true, and some Muslims go to the extent of proving so by citing examples from the KKK to Timothy McVeigh, we still owe an answer to ourselves and to others. To me, whether non-Muslims are involved in terrorist activities or not is irrelevant, and certainly does not justify Muslims being involved in terrorist activities. Another weak argument is to say that only a small percentage of Muslims are involved in terrorist activities. To me, no small number is small. Some of those so-called experts would have us believe that it’s that small number of extremists who are following the literal injunctions of the Quran while the mainstream Muslims are being apologetic and are involved in acts of deception and double-talk, perhaps in attempts to dissemble and deceive (in Muslim terminology, practicing Tuqya) the non-Muslim masses. In this short article, I will try to address some of those Quranic passages.
Perhaps the most often quoted verse of the Quran is from chapter 9, verse 5:
فإذا انسلخ الأشهر الحرم فاقتلوا المشركين حيث وجدتموهم
“When the four forbidden months are over, then wherever you encounter the idolators, kill them!”
This verse seems to give an open license to kill all pagans or non-believers, without any restrictions. It is important for us to understand that Islam came to establish the rule of law and vehemently fought anarchism. Islam did not invent war. War has existed since the beginning of the human race. Islam came to regulate war. This is why you find clear injunctions given by Prophet Muhammad (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam) to his commanders to not kill non-combatants such as women, children, monks, the elderly, etc. Once the Prophet (sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam) saw a dead woman in the battlefield and he made his objection clear and forbade the killing of women and children:
عن ابن عمر رضي الله عنهما أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم رأى امرأة مقتولة في بعض مغازيه، فأنكر قتل النساء والصبيان. متفق عليه
“Ibn Omar narrated that the Prophet saw a woman killed in one of the battles, so he forbade the killing of women and children.” [Bukhari and Muslim]
Some might ask, but what about some other narrations that may imply the permissibility of killing women and children, at least if they happen to be in the wrong place or if they get in the way? One of those narrations goes like this:
عن الصعب بن جثامة رضي الله عنه قال سئل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عن أهل الدار يبيتون فيصيبون من نسائهم وذراريهم فقال هم منهم. متفق عليه
Sa’b bin Juthamah narrated that the Prophet was asked about night raids where women and children could be killed by mistake and he said “they are from them” [i.e. you don't intend to kill them but they may be killed in the process since it's hard to discern them from fighters. See Subul as-Salam hadith# 1296].
Here understanding the setting of these narrations is key. For example, ibn Hibban narrated the Hadith of Sa’b above and added:
ثمّ نهى عنهم يوم حنين
“Then he [the Prophet] forbade the killing [of women and children] on the Day of Hunayn.”
This shows that the absolute prohibition of killing women and children abrogated any earlier narrations that may indicate otherwise. Scholars may argue when exactly this prohibition took place. Ibn Hajar argues it was during the Battle of Hunayn:
ويؤكد كون النهي في غزوة حنين …فقال لأحدهم: “الحق خالدا فقل له لا تقتل ذرية ولا عسيفا” فتح الباري، كتاب الجهاد والسير، أهل الدار يبيتون
“What confirms the fact that the prohibition occurred during the Battle of Hunayn is that the Prophet sent for Khalid to inform him not to kill any minors or contractors [i.e. non-combatants].” [See Fat'h al-Bari, the Book of Jihad, the Chapter of Night Raids]
However, Imam at-Tabarani narrated in his Awsat that the prohibition occurred during the Entry of Mecca:
أخرج الطبراني في الأوسط من حديث ابن عمر قال: لما دخل النبي مكة أُتي بامرأة مقتولة فقال “ما كانت هذه تقاتل” ونهى عن قتل النساء
“Narrated Ibn Omar, when the Prophet entered Mecca, a killed woman was brought to him and he said, ‘She was not fighting,’ and he forbade the killing of women.”
Regardless of when exactly the prohibition took place, it’s clear that it did occur toward the end of the Prophet’s life. Both the Entry of Mecca and the Battle of Hunayn occurred in the 8th year of Hijrah.
But, what about verse 9:5? Here, we have to observe the context of the verse. Many people who quote this verse rarely take the time to check the verses that immediately precede or come afterward, which makes you wonder if they’re sincere in trying to understand the context properly. But leaving intentions aside, it’s incumbent on any serious truth-seeker to look beyond one verse and try to understand it in light of other verses. First, looking at the immediate context, we see that verse 13 of the same chapter mentions a few reasons for this particular war declaration.
ألا تقاتلون قوماً نكثوا أيمانهم وهمّوا بإخراج الرّسول وهم بدؤوكم أوّل مرّة
“How could you not fight a people who have broken their oaths, who tried to drive the Messenger out, who attacked you first?” [Taubah 9:13]
This verse mentions people who initiated hostilities, who drove the Prophet and the believers out of their homes (referring to the forced migration to Medina), and who broke their pacts (referring to the Treaty of Hudaybiyah). Verses 8 and 10 mention those who have total disregard to ties of kinship and to contracts.
لا يرقبون في مؤمن إلاّ ولا ذمّة
“…They respect not the ties, neither of kinship nor treaty…” [Taubah 9:8]
It’s clear here that Islam is not waging war against all pagans or non-believers. Looking at the historical context, the Prophet didn’t understand this verse to mean the killing of all pagans. For example, when the conquest of Mecca took place, the Prophet issued a general pardon to all its inhabitants, who were not only pagans but also those that had fought him for the longest time, and regarding whom many of those verses had been revealed.
Looking at other verses of the Quran allows us to gain a more comprehensive understanding of war and peace in Islam. Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) reminds us in verse 8:61 that if enemy combatants show any inclination toward peace, then it’s incumbent on us to show a similar inclination. Verse 2:190 tells us to fight only those who fight us and not to commit any act of injustice or transgression. But, then you have the clever so-called expert on Islam come and say well all those verses are abrogated and only the Verse of the Sword applies. The Verse of the Sword, of course, is nothing but verse 9:5 discussed above. The answer to this claim is that it simply is not true. Consider for example the following verse. Verse 60:8 states that God does not stop believers from offering the best forms of treatment to those who didn’t fight them:
لا ينهاكم الله عن الذين لم يقاتلوكم في الدين ولم يخرجوكم من دياركم أن تبرّوهم وتقسطوا إليهم إنّ الله يحبّ المقسطين
“Allah does not forbid you to deal kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought against you for your faith or driven you out of your homes. Allah loves the just.” [Al-Mumtahina 60:8]
It’s very interesting that the Quran uses the word Birr, which encompasses all acts of good, to describe dealings between Muslims and the vast majority of non-Muslims. This verse should set the record straight on whether Islam is behind terrorism. According to this verse, not only is the killing of innocent people forbidden, but extending best treatment to such people is an obligation. But is this verse abrogated? Not according to the most prolific exegetes (scholars of Tafseer) of Islam. At-Tabari, after mentioning various opinions about the verse, says that the most correct opinion is that this verse is general and applies to all who “didn’t fight us”, without any exceptions.
At-Tabari also asserts that this verse is not abrogated:
وَلَا مَعْنَى لِقَوْلِ مَنْ قَالَ : ذَلِكَ مَنْسُوخ
“The statement that this verse is abrogated has no merits.”
Al-Qurtubi also asserts that this verse still applies (i.e. not abrogated), according to the vast majority of Muslim exegetes.
Both al-Tabari and al-Qurtubi lived at a time when Islam was a super-power, so no one can argue that they were involved in any exercise of double-talk or mass-deception in order to appease their non-Muslim counterparts!
© MuslimMatters.org by Anas Hlayhel on February 21st, 2010. All rights reserved. Please see legal & other disclaimers here.
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Great post, very beneficial. Allows us to show those who misquote the Quran the truth of these verses.
I think it is important to discuss and stress, together, the Qur’anic verses in their complete context before moving on to the aHaadeeth. Rather than waiting until halfway through the article to revisit that section of the Qur’an, do it right away. Not only that, don’t jump from verse 5 to verse 13. Give the entire section. Right wing preachers and pundits have made a cottage industry out of claiming to “have read” and “understood” the Qur’an and then they start throwing these sentence and paragraph fragments around. That needs to end and we need to be forward and crystal clear with the fact that these verses, when read in their complete context, refer to specific aggressors and are not general commands to go around killing all non-believers. Unfortunately polls show that too many people are believing otherwise.
Salaam Anas! Thank you for trying to clear this up! On the matter of female combatants in armed forces in many armed forces these days – would you say the argument holds that it would then be permitted to kill a female soldier fighting for the enemy?
Salam Emmy,
Yes … this is taken from mafhoum al-Hadith [implicit meaning of the Hadith]. If you remember the Hadith of ibn Omar, the Prophet based his objection of killing women on the fact that the killed woman was not a fighter. So, and as ibn Hajr deduced, if she was fighting then the prohibition of killing women does not stand. However, ibn Hajar mentions an opnion among the Malikis (e.g. Maliki scholar ibn Habib) who said it’s not permissible to kill a female soldier until she initiates the fighting and her intent to kill becomes obvious. In general, it seems that the Maliki school is the strictest when it comes to killing women and children at war. Again, ibn Hajar mentions that it’s the opinion of Imam Malik (along with al-Awza’ee) that it’s absolutely forbidden to kill women and children even if they are used as a human shield (tatarruss in Arabic).
Hope this helps!!
Fantastic Post!
-Comment removed. Either address the issues raised in the post or take your cut n’ paste jobs somewhere else. It’s like asking, “Is Buddhism is an esoteric faith”, and then posting a link on how there is rampant sexual abuse in certain quarters of buddhist monks. -editor
-Your racist comments, and by virtue of that, you belong at the Islamophobes central. Try LGF.
I definitely think muslims aren’t terrorsits. Islam is a religion that preaches peace until provoked. The real terrorists are those that kill women and children mercilessly. Plus, who are we to judge what’s going on? How do we know what to beleive? BBC? CNN? Nice article though. I just think musilims are too apologetic these days..We’re so busy desperately trying to clear our name from the west and so occupied by what the media has to say about anything we forget about the people suffering.
Excellent post. If more scholars articulated these very basic rules and stopped creating “exceptions” for every Muslim being oppressed or persecuted we would be better off. People who support actions in which civilians are targeted purposely or recklessly (even if it’s just in their heart) need to ask themselves what would Muhammad (peace be upon him) say about this.
I don’t even think the question makes sense.
Take for example the question, “Are men violent?” How do you answer that?
Thinking this way leads us into the trap that MSM have set for controlling the discourse.
I may agree with you that the question is absurd to a certain degree! Nonetheless, the question is no doubt out there and I think we should address it. In a way, this title was an attempt to kickstart the article, but it was the hope of the author that a better understanding would be attained at the end
Now, let’s not forget that even the Quran contains quite few quotes from the early opponents of Islam and what they used to say about Prophet Muhammad. Yes, what they said was absurd too. But it’s interesting that the Quran faithfully carried their words despite the negative message they contained. If anything, it shows us that from day one, Islam was not affraid of criticism (because only the weak is afraid of criticism).
Take for example Surah 34:43, “And if our clear verses were recited upon them they will say ‘he is nothing but a man who wanted to divert you from what your fathers used to worship’, and they will say ‘this [the Quran] is nothing but a fabricated lie’, …” No doubt their statements were absurd, but the Quran quoted it then refuted it.
Not only that, but the Quran further entertains the argument of its opponents, regardless of its absurdity, to a level that may surprise many:
“Say if the Merciful [i.e. God] has a son, then I’m the first one to worship him” 43:81
This shows how much the Quran is willing to walk with its opponents (tamashi ma3a al-khasm), and I think this is how Muslims should be. In other words, it’s saying we don’t oppose someone for the sake of opposition. Instead, let’s take a look at the argument (no matter how much we detest it) and entertain it to the end, see to what conclusions it leads to. Furthermore, it teaches us that if the assumptions of my opponents are true then I will be the first one to embrace their conclusion. This should be the mindset of any truth seeker!!!!
btw anas, despite my comment below, your response here is tops! mashallah! keep using that sharp aql of yours!
ma’salam
I could be wrong, but as I understand it, the Quran did not reply to the charge with a defense. Rather it exposed the hypocrisy of those making the accusation.
Is Islam violent?
hmm ..interesting question. If the answer – for the sake of argument, were to be ‘yes’ –
then perhaps it begs the question:
*so what?*
Ditto to the insightful remark of mofw. Jazahullah khairan .
A good article nonetheless though.
Wassalam
I liked your article, but please use a better font for arabic next time. I really had a hard time reading the ayaat.
JazakAllaahu Khair
Yes…it is. Look I appreciate the effort, and jazaka Allahu khayran, but this topic is a tad over-done.
The more we answer these rhetorical questions, the more legitimacy we give to those who ask them and the longer we keep discussing this, the more time elapses, and our Islam becomes all about what the West understands Islam to be, not what we believe and live. What I’m saying is, we could better focus our energy and not lose out on the greater khayr that comes from creating an American/Canadian/British Islam than trying to defend what little of it is there right now…
Ya feel me? Anyways good effort and intentions in contributing this piece.
Great article! I really enjoyed reading some of the points you mentioned!
Your style is slightly different from other articles I’ve read on this subject – too much academic discussion sometimes sounds dry but this article has kept a very good balance! BarikAllahu feehi! Keep writing.
Salam.while i was searchin tru goggle dis morning,i searchd 4 d noun ‘mohammed’,unda dis search there are several titles on the history of the prophet mohammed(sw),history of islam,etc.of which i click on ‘d history of islam’.pls,kindly go tru dis page,nd help in d provision of authentic answers.bicos dis story luk so confusing about ones stand in d islamic religion.anoda reason is dat am young in d islamic knowledge.ma-salam
Interesting article ma sha Allah, that only makes one wish for more, in sha Allah.
It would be good if knowledgeable people could start to define terms and structure the discussion about Islam and violence within an analytical framework such as this:
What is meant by violence? (what are the types of violence; physical, emotional, pychology. e.g. is waterboarding violent?)
Who is the doer of violence? (e.g. who is a legitimate violent actor – a state? an islamic state? an attacked tribe? an armed citizen? an oppressed group? In an Islamic society, who conducts war, who develops strategy, who is accountable? And then who is not a legitimate violent actor — i.e. who is a murderer or what is a rogue/criminal state?)
Who or what are legitimate object of violence? (people versus machinery/hardware/infrastructure, animals & plants, civilians vs. military, men vs. women, those within one’s territory vs. those outside of it, high vs. low population centers.)
What is the context of violence? (e.g. defensive war, war of choice/aggression, a homeowner defending himself against an intruder? a female resisting rape?)
What is the rationale for violence? (is it defense against imminent attack, or is it strategic for long-term profit? is it threatened violence for a political purpose? is it to gain land or resources? is it to protect religious minorities or religous rights? What is a just rationale for war?)
What is the means of violence? (e.g. a bow and arrow vs. a rifle vs. nuclear weapons vs. napalm)
What is the punishment for unsanctioned acts of violence and war crimes? (e.g. if it is unlawful to target non-combatants, what is the punishment for doing so? is it punished as an act of apostacy? Is it a military crime – e.g. not following orders, or breaking martial laws -punishable in a military tribunal? Is it simply murder and the hudood for that applies? How about if civilians are not deliberately targeted, but end up as “collateral damage” – is the punishment different than for deliberate targeting, or is there no punishment (an apology will do)?)
How does violence legitimately end and what does reconciliation look like? (what is the end-game for violence? diplomacy, treaty, death, conquering, court trials…)
how can violence be prevented or re-directed ? (better defenses, diplomacy and communication, social protest movements, more robust and fair political and legal systems…)
Perhaps through such a framework we could develop a matrix by which to analyze and assess the various conflicts that come up.
Neither violent nor peaceful. Simply a way of life.
As I heard put to me elsewhere: “Islam is a peaceful religion, but not a pacifist religion.”
Peaceful religion? Are you kidding me? Yes Muslims can be peaceful but “true” Islam in its purest is the epitome of violence. I think a more simple answer is “Yes”. When one studies the Quran, Hadiths, and Mohammed’s biography one can clearly see Mohammed’s violent agenda. Bottom line: the purpose of Islam is to spread all over the world as the only religion worshiping Allah no matter what approach: violence or non-violence, and also to imitate Mohammed who is suppose to be the ideal character we all should model after. The problem with you quoting specific surahs in support of showing how Islam is peaceful is that it only pertains to certain events in Mohammed’s life BEFORE Mohammed thought he could convince others to easily convert. When he failed and grew fristrated, he then supposedly receive revelations to then use force. That is a pattern all throughout the Quran- use kindness first or use force. You have to be willingly blind to neglect other the violent themes resonating throughout the entire Quran!! Being a true Islam is modeling after Mohammed himself.
History doesn’t lie. Islam ALWAYS used force and fear to get their final word. Mohammed even pridefully admitted that Allah injected fear into the hearts of non-believers. In fact Mohammed also used deception and lies as he said “for war is deceit”. Study history.
For example: During Mohammed’s last years and the height of his political power he wrote letters to the Roman government, also in Portugal, Spain, and Northern Africa to either receive Islam or pay the price. Now what wrong did those other countries do to him??? nothing! For the first 200 years after Mohammed’s death, millions and millions of Northern Africans were murdered because they didn’t accept Islam!
Mohammed also had a 100 year old poet named Abu AfaK murdered as well as Abu Afak and her unborn child for writing against Mohammed. Now if that isn’t the definition of violence, then what is? Who orders the execution of elderly people and pregnant women? I could spend hours and and days posting surahs and hadiths regarding the use of Islamic violence
Nonsensical post not worth bothering with, as usual much disinformation and lies> typical and boring.
Ultimately who cares what you think.
P.S Antonio when will the “Peaceful”west release our captives who are innocent until proven Muslim?”
In what is it nonsenseical? You don’t even bother to elaborate but only opinions. You’re a typical kind: all you do is express useless opinions and only favor what “feels” right to you. My friend you haven’t studied Islamic history.
You accuse of me lying. What part or parts am I lying about?
As the final words of Mohammed:
“I descended by Allah with the sword in my hand, and my wealth will come from the shadow of my sword. And the one who will disagree with me will be humiliated and persecuted”….
In other words, his final sermon instruct Muslims how to handle non-believers. And that my friend is consistent with extremist today. I’m sure you’re fictitious version of Islam would not coincide with Islam in the Middle East such as Iran. Either Islam over there is correct about stating that their version is true or you’re painting a children’s coloring book of Islam.
Any person or groups of people who believe imams are infallible are upon falsehood and we believe that Only God is Infallible. This is what we Muslims say to all other groups. Read The Quraan if your group does not fall in line with the prescription that Only Allah is Divine and infallible and has beliefs that a Prophet, Imaam, Priest, Rabbi or any Human being or idol should have any qualities of the Creator (i.e Divinity, infallibility, Immortality etc). then this group is upon falsehood no matter what heading it is under. Do not let human beings change what Allah has legislated upon.
Only The Creator is Infallible. If you legislate on issues that Allah has legislated upon then you are ascribing yourself as a partner to Him and this will lead
you to hellfire. The Creator can forgive all sins except that of shirk or ascribing partnership in worship to Him. Human beings are only His deputies on earth they are to govern with the divine laws that are revealed.
This is the price for attaining heaven, otherwise you will be left in the day of judgement to those whom you worshiped and hellfire is an terrible abode.
To acknowledge and worship the one who Created you and not to be ungrateful by worshiping others or yourself (desires).
God has given us a book that can not be changed and it is memorized, because His previous books the psalms, the injeel (gospel) and the Torah fell into the hands of corrupt individuals who have changed the scriptures with their hands.
One big example with present day ramifications are the laws dealing with Riba or interest.
These corrupt religious people changed the Creators legislation against this practise and now we have gross corruption in the land.
The Noble Qur’an – Al-Baqarah 275-281
275. Those who eat Ribâ (usury) will not stand (on the Day of Resurrection) except like the standing of a person beaten by Shaitân (Satan) leading him to insanity. That is because they say: “Trading is only like Ribâ (usury),” whereas Allâh has permitted trading and forbidden Ribâ (usury). So whosoever receives an admonition from his Lord and stops eating Ribâ (usury) shall not be punished for the past; his case is for Allâh (to judge); but whoever returns [to Ribâ (usury)], such are the dwellers of the Fire – they will abide therein.
276. Allâh will destroy Ribâ (usury) and will give increase for Sadaqât (deeds of charity, alms, etc.) And Allâh likes not the disbelievers, sinners.
277. Truly those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, they will have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
278. O you who believe! Be afraid of Allâh and give up what remains (due to you) from Ribâ (usury) (from now onward), if you are (really) believers.
279. And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allâh and His Messenger but if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. Deal not unjustly (by asking more than your capital sums), and you shall not be dealt with unjustly (by receiving less than your capital sums).
280. And if the debtor is in a hard time (has no money), then grant him time till it is easy for him to repay, but if you remit it by way of charity, that is better for you if you did but know.
281. And be afraid of the Day when you shall be brought back to Allâh. Then every person shall be paid what he earned, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.
The Only Fictitious version of History is the orientalist one which you give.
Antionio,
Just because you studied Islamic history, does not mean you know islam or should comment on it. A scholar in Islam has to study the subject of quranic arabic not regular arabic for 25 years to be considered a true and trust worthy person to elaborate on Islam. The quranic Arabic can be very complicated. I found this definition on the website: Quranic Arabic an which includes Arabic grammar, syntax and morphology for each word in the Holy Quran. There are three levels of analysis: morphological annotation, a syntactic treebank and a semantic ontology. Look I am not an expert either, so please research yourself about this subject. All I am saying, sometimes when you translate the quran to english, the meaning is completely lost, a word could mean 4 different things depending the situation. Therefore, to assume Islam is a violent religion without understanding quranic arabic is just plain ignorance on your part. Even Arabs do not fully understand the quran.
Antionio,
Before you jump all over the place from Quran to history, maybe you should have invested some time in reading the article a bit more carefully. I tell you if you are reading the Quran and Islamic history like you read my article, I’m not surprised you have arrived to such conclusions.
For example, you said:
While the focus of my article was on the verse of the sword. This is the most often quoted verse by the anti-Islam crowd to prove that Islam is violent. I didn’t avoid that verse. Rather I made it the center of my article. But, I also showed how it’s taken out of context, and I brought verses that came after which clarified the textual context a bit, something that no one cares to do these days.
Another example, you said:
Again one of the central themes of my articles was to show that this is not true. I brought a verse from the Quran that was revealed later that tells us to treat non-combatant people with all acts of good. I also brought 2 major scholars of tafseer who said that such verse is applicable and not abrogated by any other verse.
I can go in pages about this topic. But I think if we’re not able to even read one article objectively and answer to it, then it’s useless to jump here and there while avoiding the arguments that this article brings.
May Allah guide all
Antonio,
If you are friendly or neutral towards Muslims then you get peace from Muslims. If you oppress or unjust towards Muslims then we have a right to stop the oppression.
Surah 60 verses 4-10:
4. Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibrahim (Abraham) and those with him, when they said to their people: “Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred for ever, until you believe in Allah Alone,” except the saying of Ibrahim (Abraham) to his father: “Verily, I will ask for forgiveness (from Allah) for you, but I have no power to do anything for you before Allah .” Our Lord! In You (Alone) we put our trust, and to You (Alone) we turn in repentance, and to You (Alone) is (our) final Return,
5. “Our Lord! Make us not a trial for the disbelievers, and forgive us, Our Lord! Verily, You, only You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.”
6. Certainly, there has been in them an excellent example for you to follow, for those who look forward to (the Meeting with) Allah (for the reward from Him) and the Last Day. And whosoever turn away, then verily, Allah is Rich (Free of all wants), Worthy of all Praise.
7. Perhaps Allah will make friendship between you and those whom you hold as enemies. And Allah has power (over all things), and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
8. Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.
9. It is only as regards those who fought against you on account of religion, and have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to befriend them. And whosoever will befriend them, then such are the Zalimun (wrong-doers those who disobey Allah).
Pay attention to verses 8, and 9.
All i’m doing is pointing out that “True” Islam in its rawest form is following the ways of Mohammed. Peaceful Muslims don’t practice “True” Islam just a derivative of it. I don’t consider peaceful Muslims following “True Islam”. So which version of Islam are you taking about? Because Fundamentalist are in disagreement with you.
That’s easy to understand that. Try leaving Islam in the middle east. Muslims will persecute you, you will lose your job, status, family, and even be killed. Why? Because the Quran gives specific guidelines on how to handle infidels. And that’s suppose to be peaceful? Fundamentalist claim they are following true Islam. In fact, try to reconcile with fundamentalist now and see how far you’ll go. You’ll probably be killed when you preach your version of Islam.
One can examine Mohammed’s life and make that clear distinction. Most Westerners are highly ignorant on Islamic history and Mohammed’s life and only take in what the media makes Muslims out to be whether peaceful or terrorist. But it is impossible to not pick out how violent “fundamental” Islam is when evaluating Mohammed’s life and I think its sad how you try to justify that. The Islam you purport is foreign because fundamental Islam at its core is true and violent.
Here are some of the numerous examples of violence from Mohammed:
BEFORE Mohammed got kicked out and boycotted at Mecca, he was a forgiving person. He preached about loving and forgiveness. The Quraysh tribe left him alone at Medina and didn’t try to peruse him. After 3 years they felt bad so they removed the boycott.
AFTER Mohammed grew a military power of warfaring tribes his attitude began to change. He now received revelation to command Muslims to fight anyone who rejected Islam (Surah 8:39, Surah 8:65, Surah 8:38) Remember, he attacked the Quraysh tribe first!! It wasn’t defensive but offensive tactic for Muslims.
Another excellent example is through his relationship with the Jews.
Mohammed lived among the Jews peacefully in Medina. He did business with them, ate with them, and even faced Jerusalem with them. After 3 years of unsuccessfully trying to get them to convert, Mohammed finally gave up and used excessive force as an alternative, even assassinating a poet there. Why? Because the Jews wouldn’t convert????? That’s suppose to be peaceful? What wrong did Jews do to him at first before the Battle of Trench?
Even to Christians he said they either had to submit, pay taxes, or be destroyed. (Surah 9:29). Is that peaceful? What wrong did Christians do to him?
One more thing- Mohammed, now a military power in all of Arabia sent out letters to the King of Iran, emperor of Rome, Roman governor of Egypt, King of Oman, King of Bahrain, King of Syria, and King of Yemen-
“Convert to Islam and you will be saved. And if you reject my challenge, you are responsible for what will happen to your people”
What wrong did those countries do to him? Is that suppose to be peaceful? Islam also attacked Egypt, Spain, Portugal, and Southern Europe even though they did nothing wrong. Unfortunately, this practice itself is the inherent attitude of fundamentals now: to spread Islam by all means.
You keep citing surahs about peace but neglect other ones. Those surahs you quote are only relative to the events in Mohammed’s life. You cannot read the Quran as a whole because some surahs contradict each other. You must read it consistently with the events at that time. That is the only way to reconcile those differences because some revelations canceled out other revelations (naskh, as referred to Muslim scholars)
Everytime I see a blatant attack on our Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and all his brothers from previous prophets), my love of him increases.
Now you pretend to be an expert on Islamic history and Muhammad’s life, but you conveniently leave very important facts!! Prophet Muhammad was at war with Quraish when he left Mecca. They made an assassination attempt on his life right before he left Mecca. In fact, they followed him wanting to kill him before reaching Medina. When his followers wanted to leave Mecca, the Meccans would strip them from their possessions. His followers [those who didn't have clan protection] were tortured in Mecca. So Prophet Muhammad never initiated the war with the Meccans, it was already there. One thing the Arab avoided, even before Islam, is to be labeled as back-stabber. If Prophet Muhammad, as you claim, back-stabbed the Meccans, then they would have made sure to tell the world about it. They were after ruining his reputation since he started his call in Mecca and they would have loved such an opportunity. Yet you don’t find such evidence in history.
Now, this war lasted about 6 years after the migration to Medina. When the first opportunity to make peace presented itself, the Prophet rushed to make peace (known as the Treaty of Hudaybiyah), even though he had to make several reconciliations that were not in his favor. Many of his companions weren’t happy (by now Prophet Muhammad had a mighty army) but the Prophet insisted that the treaty would go forth. In that occasion the Prophet said, “Woe to Quraish, they are consumed by their love of war. Why can’t they leave me to interact with the rest of the Arabs? [that shows that the Meccans never ceased to interfere in the Prophet's affairs]“.
The following years were peaceful till the treaty was broken by Quraiysh [by attacking one of the allies of Prophet Muhammad]. This initiated the Conquest of Mecca. The Prophet and his Companions entered Mecca and they could have exacted revenge from their enemies. Yet, the Prophet FORGAVE everyone!! You say that Muhammad was preaching forgiveness in Mecca and he changed in Medina. But this incident happened towards the very end of Muhammad’s life. He was very poweful and he had full control over his enemies, yet he chose to forgive! Isn’t forgiveness in times of strength much more valuable than in times of weakness??
As to his treatment of the Jews, again you seem to ignore very important details. The Prophet had a treaty with them when he came to Medina [which shows his intent to co-live with them]. But the Prophet was back-stabbed several times by the three Jewish tribes of Medinah. They tried to assassinate him and they conspired against him. In the most difficult moments, when the Muslims were surrounded by enemies [an alliance of Arab and Jewish tribes] from the outside, the last Jewish tribe decided to revoke their contract with the Prophet from inside. Despite all this, the Prophet never declared war against all Jews. Up to the last moment of his life, Prophet Muhammad had Jews live in his city. In fact, it’s narrated that the Prophet died while his armor was with a Jew [as a ransom for a loan]. The Jews used to enter the gatherings of Prophet Muhammad very casually and have discussions with the Prophet. The Prophet only retaliated against the Jews who betrayed him.
I’m not sure of what your sources are! I would really like to know what they are. I hope you’re going back to original sources which tell you all the facts, not just the convenients facts to attack Islam and Prophet Muhammad.
Peace
All said and done, look at what is happening all around us. I agree that opression should be met with opression. However, why kill little children, elders and women in suicide blasts? what is the harm in other religions practicing their own faith, having their own gods and worshipping their own idols.
After all, when there were no religions, Mesopotamia and Harappan civilizations still worshipped trees and their holy spirits. Were they kafirs?
Why blast the worshippers in Lahore? They were not opressors, merely practicing their faith, thats it. And they were killed for same.
The pointing questions is not about violence, it is about tolerance. Can we be tolerant to huamanity or we just want to blast people who dont follow my way of life?
Every religion is violent when it comes to protecting their own, but I do not see any other religion, except Islam who goes out of the way to maim people just because they do not follow Allah.
I condemn all the incidents you have mentioned, as Islam is against terrorism, but terrorism is not a muslim monopoly, and hindus have been involved in terrorism all along. Forget the Gujarat Genocide, forget the killing of Sikhs and christians and nuns in Delhi and Gujarat by Hindus, now there is evidence that many bomb blasts done in India and blamed on Muslims, were in fact done by Hindu terrorists.
Well they don’t care. They ask us to condemn this and that while they sit happily and cheer for there murderer Modi and elect him to be the next Chief Minister.
The hindus who are allied to the RSS and BJP have this kind of mentality that they will blast all the things that is happening and then blame it on muslims.
For example take the issue of Kashmir. There they have been killing everybody with impunity for years. They are killing woman, children and elderly. They have been raping muslim woman in daylight and killing them afterwards but no justice to the people have been given. Then when some explosion occurs then they all start shouting with there whole mouth open.
Same thing with Gujarat they did the same thing. That goon Modi and his followers were all acquitted by the court while the muslims in Hyderabad and other places in India were just hounded and put in jail for no reason at all or just for mere suspicion.
All the bombs that went on from Malegaon to Hyderabad were put on muslim youths and then when they found that hindus have done it they are still houding the muslim youth. They falsly put the muslims in jail and have destroyed countless muslim youths who now cannot pursue any career why because of there illegal detention.
Indian jails are one of the horrible places you can be. If any riots break in any part of India be assured that all the muslim youth will be put in the jail first as if they are the one who instigated them while the hindus roam freely. Indian police is one of the worst police in terms of sectarian mentality. They have grudge against muslims and call them by all kinds of dirty names. Just hear some of the speeches by there new found youth leaders like that Gandhi.
Last but not the least they have killed thousands of muslims with impunity in India and will do the same in future. Why because the government keeps a shut eye towards any violence against muslims and all the injustice imparted to them.
If you see any Politicians pandering for muslim votes he is already branded as being a muslim and defamed. When these people talk about extremism within muslims they should look into mirror and see there own extreme leaders like Bal Thackrey, Modi, Advani, Uma Bharti and the other RSS goons. Hypocrisy at the best.
Muslims are virtually condemning all kinds of acts of extremism from all the places. You can find countless fatwas on the internet condemning all kinds of stuff from suicide bombing to civilian casualties. Just use Google and they are there for everybody to read.
But where is the hindus condemnation and there religious leaders speaking against the injustices and killing that is happening against the minorities in India. Only few Human rights group have done that other than that there is total silence from Media as well as the leader of hindus religious organizations. Zilch.
And this guy has the audacity to come here and preach us what Islam teaches. Go and clean up your own backyard before you point fingers at us.
And by the way just telling it that Islam tells this and that does not mean that this is right. Provide us proof that Islam tell us that you can maim people who do not follow Allah. If you cannot than shut the hell up.
I agree that they are bad incidents and are an ugly face. But just compare the reach, magnitude and local/global reach of such fringe groups? They are on margin compared to rest of the population. No one listens to mindless preachers in other religions, who justify killing of small children in name of Jihad.
Nothing compared to what happends on a daily basis in Pakistan, Afghanistan & Iraq. It makes me shudder the plight of poor people living in shadow of terror under name of mindless Jihad.
Really nobody listens Nitin. Are you kidding. Modi is virtually a hero among the NRI Hindus in USA, UK and other places. Global reach or local reach has nothing to do with it.
Indians are typical when it comes to Pakistan. They will accuse it for everything that happens even for cockroaches in there kitchen.
By the way Indian Army has been opressing people of Kashmir for years now but still they are the peace makers. India police has one of the worst track records and is one of the most secetarian organization but well that is not a problem since it is not from Pakistan.
Afghanistan was made a puppet show by western powers from USSR to US. They did not wanted to be invaded by USSR devastated and then left to ruins. Then invaded by US and left to ruins.
Iraq do not even talk about it. The sanctions alone killed more than one millions babies because the western powers did not wanted medicine in Iraq. Madeline Albright was asked on TV show that what about those million dead babies. She said it was worth it.
Where is your condemnation? No where to be seen. What a fruit cake.
I agree with Nitin, Hindu terrorism is confined only to India though it has hindu terrorist supporters outside India. This is because hinduism unlike the global religions has only a local following and it was just created by Brahmins to exploit the lower castes. It is not a universal religion and does not believe in Universal brotherhood. Hence all the bombs and killing of innocent people, is done by Hindu terrorists only in India, and none of the brahmins have criticized these terror activities. But when you compare it to christian terrorism you can see this type of terrorism globally, since christianity is a global religion, and christian priests have also not condemned christian terrorism. Only muslims, and Islam being the true religion of God, have universally condemned terrorism.
It will be interesting to see the sources for his misinformation. However, without a doubt his sources will be the failed, useless orientalist scholarship. Which is and has ever been a waste of their time and money and will God willing always cause them much regret : )).
Essay on Orientalisn, Misinformation and Islam:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/orientalism.html
An excerpt:
The feeling that there is a general ignorance of Islam in the West is shared by Maurice Bucaille, a French doctor, who writes:
When one mentions Islam to the materialist atheist, he smiles with a complacency that is only equal to his ignorance of the subject. In common with the majority of Western intellectuals, of whatever religious persuasion, he has an impressive collection of false notions about Islam. One must, on this point, allow him one or two excuses. Firstly, apart from the newly-adopted attitudes prevailing among the highest Catholic authorities, Islam has always been subject in the West to a so-called ‘secular slander’. Anyone in the West who has acquired a deep knowledge of Islam knows just to what extent its history, dogma and aims have been distorted. One must also take into account that fact that documents published in European languages on this subject (leaving aside highly specialised studies) do not make the work of a person willing to learn any easier. (From The Bible, the Qur’an and Science, by Maurice Bucaille, page 118)
Umm Bilqis,
I think its unnecessary to go verse by verse in the Quran or Islamic history to prove evidence for our claims. I don’t claim to be an Islamic scholar but I definitely have done more research that the typical westerner so I am somewhat knowledgeable about the basic of Islam and I also have my own copy of the Quran which I have read many many times over.
I think everyone in this blog site are probably the friendliest Muslims ever and I don’t have anything wrong against Muslims. I also think they take it as in insult against Muslims. Can Muslims be friendly..Yes, of course. But going back to the basic question: Is Islam a religion of violence. The answer is “Yes”
Jihadist and extremist for over a thousand years now all claim they are doing the works of Allah just like you. They can recite the entire Quran better than some of you. They even claim that their abominating acts of cruelty are justified by the Quran!!!! They use these verses in your Quran:
“Fight in the cause of Allah those that fight you…and slay them wherever you catch them,….and fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice in the name of Allah” (Sura 2:190-193)
“Fighting is prescribed upon you, but it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing that is bad for you. But Allah knoweth and ye know not.” - (Sura 2:216)
In other words, Allah wants you to fight and knows what is good for Muslims
“For unbelievers are unto you open enemies”..(Sura 4:101)
“Fight those that do not believe in Allah of the Last Day…nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians)(Sura 9:29)
The Quran even gives instructions on what to do with unbelievers such as cut their feet, head, hands, or use crucifixion (Sura 5:33, 8:12-13, 47:4). These passages only enforce evil acts.
Osama bin Laden used Sura 9:14 in his video of a captured US soldier- “Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame” (Sura 9:14) To this day, jihadist are still more inspired by Mohammed’s thirst for violence than ever before.
Some say that these verses are only for Mohammed and his enemies at the time of Mecca. That is not the case. For 1400 years Muslims have doing this and continue to this day.
So where do these Muslims get this idea to spread Islam to the entire world by all means necessary including destruction? When you ask them, they will tell you the Quran is where they find their roots and that they are following the ways of Mohammed!!! So who’s interpretation and doctrine is right? Yours or theirs? And what makes your school of thought more right than theirs? You never answered the question. I look forward to your answer.
What about fighting against North Africa, the Persian Empire, and Europe? Where Muslims acting in self defense or against oppression? No. Then what’s the justification for that? Still hoping for an answer.
What about the Islamic Law of Apostasy? “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him”.
What about the murder of a Jewish woman and her child by writing a poem against Mohammed? (Muhammad Husayn Haykal, the Life of Mohammed, 1976, page 243)
What about some of the most ancient Hadiths recorded by al-Bukhari which gave permission to kill all children and women that were pagan? (Sahih Musli translated by Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, 1994, 3:946-947) Is that suppose to be peaceful?
I even knew Muslims that lived in Iran before the Revolution and told me that everyday in school, they had a pledge by reciting to kill all Americans. They are brainwashing these kids!! I don’t need a couple of Quranic verses to convince me that Islam is violent. You can see that just by looking at the current affairs in the East now!!! They all claim they are following the Quran and Mohammed.
For an the Explanations you requested you should go to the proper authorities:
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/cat/430
Let us examine the world today it is headedby Secular Humanism and it is the world leader. These states have damaged and poisoned human relations to the point that many (especially those in authority) are unethical, Immoral and still others have engaged in barbarism. ( Their troops).
This uncivilized behavior has come about because of secular humanism. It is built on a house of sand. Secular humanists become violent and brutal when living is no longer easy. (Beware, perhaps when the times of economic hardship occur you may be better off living with those accostumed to it.) Plus remember that the Prophet Sallahu allahi wassalam and the Sahabas chose poverty.
In strife and trouble, Secular humanists turn on their own values so goodbye constitution and good bye the Geneva Conventions. Hello situational ethics and morality.
This shows that ethics without the Creator is involved in sounding good but no deliverance of genuine goods. It is not about inner refinement but observable show.
Those who are ethical due to submission to the will of the Creator cannot and will not surpass the rules of engagement. They have been ordered to engaged in exalted character in all situations. In politics, business at home or Alone.
Muslims are not allowed to torture captives and kill women, children the elderly., and Uproot trees among other things that you can read about in that link. The penalty for not adhering to these rules of engagement could be Hellfire and Allah taala knows best.
Muslims have been ordered to heed the call of the Creator and the Creator has ordered us to put a stop to oppression even if we dislike to do this.
Yet many Muslims drown the Voice that they should hear and instead listen to the voices of others that give them a less exalted calling such as lawyer or doctor. ( There is good in these fields, I know.)
However, we forget that we are the people of strong will and emaan Insha’Allah, and that a weak emaan is like a donkey it has some small benefit however a horse or many horses if disciplined and properly trained can move mountains.
Antonio, brother Anas has responded to some of your queries please respond.
Antionio,
I know you feel as though you have a lot of good points but you’re arguement is logically flawed. You mention the violence from early Islam but refuse to accept the possibility of an alternative view. You continue to refer to the “middle east” as though it is the final say in translation. As far as I know Allah is supposed to be the only one capable of perfection. Though the Prophet Muhammad was a messenger of Allah, he was a man and he was capable of fallacies. You argue your point as if you want the answer to be yes so you can validate your passions against the faith.
I am not a Muslim. I am not a practitioner of any regulated faith. I find myself studying many beliefs in an attempt to understand the history of human faith. I have found that every religion has a hint of violence in its past but this does not make it a violent religion. I have also found that the reason faith is continued is because of the translation. You’re right, many Muslims are violent and believe the Quran justifies their actions. But you also have to understand that a person of pure heart can read the same message and be inspired to live righteously. This too is a cause for a continuation of belief. Neither interpretation is more correct than the other and you cannot generalize a whole religion based on the negative comprehension of one side.
You have to look at the belief as a whole. Which way of worship is more widely practice? It’s hard to say because if you bring politics into the question then the poll will be skewed. What form of violence is acceptable? Again, depending on your survey sample you will get a different result.
Maybe a better question would be “Does the history of a faith cause the current practitioners to be less deserving of love and acceptance?”
I hate to break it to you but many (rather MOST) religions, especially of the major world religions, have a violent birth. No faith has ever been guilty of always being peaceful yet it is relatively safe to assume that the average westerner perceives Islam to be inherently violent. This is due, mainly, to distorted media coverage and a common fear from the Muslim people to actually educate the uneducated. It is also due to many anti-Islam, or Islamophobes, preaching a misconceived perception of a religion they have decifered themselves.
I, as I imagine the other bloggers, have appreciated your position. Though I am not a follower of Allah I believe that every faith has a right to peace. I also believe that one must consider an objective side when trying to evaluate another’s belief. Rather than judge somone’s interpretation of a spiritual message against your own; consider the possibility that we are all human and all capable of human fallacy. Continue to inspire thought and passion. Continue to question the realities but never ignore that little voice inside you that says that all men (and women) are iherently good, it’s the choices and translations in life that lead us to violence.
Be kind to one another and thank you all for a very intersting discussion.
Best wishes to all…
Shua
Greetings Shua,
Interesting perspective! Please note one area that needs a bit of clarification is in regards to the act that Prophet Muhammed Sallahu allahi wa Sallam (Peace be upon Him), as with all the Prophets and Messengers of God were protected from sin by the Creator.
As mentioned in a previous comment These books were tampered with to the extent that heinous stories about the prophets were incorporated in them. The Peace and Blessings of the Creator be upon All of Them.
The question is who is attempting to discredit them? Unfortunately, the worst of Creation and the Corruptors have seized control due to much dishonesty intellectual and otherwise.
Triumphant Satanism with its secret brotherhoods has taken over many societies The liars and deceivers are in control and the truthful ones are not believed.
Islamic prophecies about the end times call these the years of deceit in which the truthful person will not be believed. and the liar would be believed.
(Excerpt from Islamic-suite beliefs101)
From the Qur’an, Muslims also know the names of 25 of the prophets. They are:
Adam
Idris (Enoch)
Nuh (Noah)
Hud
Saleh
Ibrahim (Abraham)
Isma’il (Ishmael)
Ishaq (Isaac)
Lut (Lot)
Ya’qub (Jacob)
Yousef (Joseph)
Shu’aib
Ayyub (Job)
Musa (Moses)
Harun (Aaron)
Dhu’l-kifl (Ezekiel)
Dawud (David)
Sulaiman (Solomon)
Ilias (Elias)
Al-Yasa (Elisha)
Yunus (Jonah)
Zakariyya (Zechariah)
Yahya (John)
‘Isa (Jesus)
Muhammad
The prophets were noted for their righteousness, truthfulness, piety and honesty. Allah protected them from sin, supported them with miracles, and made them exemplary in their obedience to Allah and in their actions: “They are those whom Allah had guided. So follow their guidance.”(Qur’an 6:90)
Islam’s Prophets – The Ulul ‘Azmi
Among the prophets, five are revered as the Ulul ‘azmi, or “messengers of strong will,” distinguished by their devotion to Allah and their determination in the face of hardship: Nuh (Noah), Ibrahim (Abraham), Musa (Moses), Isa (Jesus) and Muhammad (peace be upon them all).
Muhammad (peace be upon him), however, has the highest status. Not only is he the seal of the prophets and the one who received the final revelation of the Qur’an, but he has the distinction of having been sent to all of mankind rather than to a specific nation as the other ulul ‘azmi were.
In the Qu’ran, it says that, “We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most of men know not.” (Qur’an 34:28); and, “Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much.” (Qur’an 33:21)
Hello Anas Hlayhel,
I found your article to be very interesting and enlightening as well as the comments made in this post. Dialogue like this is important for Muslims and Non-Muslims if we hope to improve relations world wide. I am not a Muslim, however working in a University setting I often come in contact with Muslims and to date I have not met a Muslim who I did not like. Clearly the media is responsible for unfair labels that Muslims as a hole receive, just because the radical Muslims are the ones making the news. Every religion has a radical group that uses force and violence to get their point across.
Here is one question I would like your opinion on. In the west it is common to make fun of ourselves. We do this all the time on sit-coms and talk shows. We make fun of every religion (including our own) with the exception of Islam. Everyone is afraid to say anything that might be offensive to Muslims for fear of a violent retribution. The recent South Park episode has come under fire by many Muslims because they came very close to representing Muhammad (Peace be upon Him) which I know is taboo. My question is do Muslims (not the radicals) feel that this is an offense that the creators of South Park should die over as some groups have suggested? Or is this just a case where again radicals Muslims are the ones that are getting the media attention?
Dear G.
Have you seen this post? Pls read it, and if it doesn’t answer your question, I am sure Br. Anas or someone else will be more than willing to.
http://muslimmatters.org/2010/04/26/south-park-episode-censorship-of-mohammeds-s-depiction-the-script-played-to-perfection/
Hi G,
If I may add, we Muslims believe that certain matters should not be made fun of (e.g. God, His Messengers, His scriptures). This is because faith is a v. serious matter and ridiculing it undermines its seriousness or its sacredness. BTW, this goes for all Prophets and all scriptures (Muslims are, or at least should be, equally offended when Jesus or Moses are made fun of). Off course, none of this should condone any act of violence claiming to be protecting the sacredness of religion and its figures.
Hope that makes sense,
Anas
Dear Amad,
Thank you for reading my post. I followed the link as you suggested,also a great article and posts. I think this helps to answer my question.
Sincerely,
G
You are welcome G. I hope more people in America were like you, instead of relying on a segment by Anderson Cooper to create more fear about Muslims and Islam. By the way, Cooper seems to be on a mission, kind of like a soft O-Reilly, interviewing an arrogant Maher and creating more Islamophobia. I don’t what these guys are thinking? Will a billion people just disappear? Instead of doing responsible journalism, everyone seems to be trying to outfox FOX these days.
Thank you Anas for your explanation…BTW if others haven’t mentioned this, your page comes up pretty high in Google rankings for searching “is islam a violent religion”. Thank you for taking the time to explain to us…Admittedly I’m a Christian and have not touched the Quran, please pardon my ignorance.
I’ve always had difficulties understanding why people would commit acts of violence in the name of God, or Allah. Killing of innocents and claiming its a means to an end…Holding people responsible just because they are part of a country that they see is evil.
Why such hate?
Your post does a great service to people like me…See I have heard so much about Islam being a violent religion that I was starting to believe it…But the Lord always tells us to seek the truth. I live in a town full of faithful Muslims and there is also a large Christian following, and we all get along just fine. There is no racial or religious tension here, there is however a lot of respect.
I wish the world could be more like this. Hatred should not be tolerated, neither is blind fanaticism…Its how wars are started. Life is tough enough without us being at each other’s throats!
Anyway, again, thank you. I hope you don’t take offense, but God bless, and good luck with your future endeavors.
Hi Robert,
Thank you for taking the time to read the article and for wanting to seek the truth. We need more people like you who are not blinded by propaganda or hate. No I wasn’t aware of this article’s ranking with Google, so thank you for bringing that to my attention.
I’m really glad that I can be an agent of understanding and that people like you are appreciative of that.
Sincerely,
Anas
Very interesting blog and insightful too. I’m not too educated or anything in Islam but I just started diving into the Koran so I’m very new. I have all kinds of impressions of Islam. I had a few questions and maybe someone can help me answer these.
Part of being peaceful means living in harmony, tranquility while respecting one another and their beliefs. So if Islam truly is peaceful can some guy like me go to Afghanistan or Iran and practice any religion I want to and be respected peacefully just like here in the US, Canada, and Australia?
I was touching up on some history on Islam and I read the part when Mohammed died, Abu Bakr took over. Why did he send all the Muslims to attack Europe and India first? Isn’t that kind of messed up to go out and just attack countries that never even did anything to them? What was the purpose of that? I thought they were suppose to be peaceful and only fight when other countries pick on them.
I mean, I understand why Iran is at war with the US, that makes sense. Its political issues stem from oil and other conflicts of interests. But why did the early Muslims just go out and start picking on other countries?
Thanks for helping me out.
Hi Jason nice of you to drop by, I hope you enjoy the other articles as well and engage in more discussion.
This is actually a two part question that needs a two part answer. Islamic history is a testament to how much safety and mutual respect people of other faiths enjoyed within the Islamic Caliphate. This is from the article on the exiling of the last Caliph.
In the Golden Age of Islam people of other faiths flocked to the Islamic nation at times where there may have been mass persecution of people like Jews.
As for living in Afghanistan or Iran, you have to understand that Muslims may or may not be behaving in the manner that their religion teaches which is unfortunate. Thus let’s try to focus on what Muslims are supposed to do vs. what they may actually be doing, I hope you see that’s fair. My background is Afghan and that in no way means I’m going to blindly support every action Afghans do just because they’re Muslim, rather a person who truly cares objectively analyzes and advises against the wrong actions that take place, which is actually my the true responsibility of a Muslim.
Actually, the Byzantines and the Sassanids were in open conflict with the Muslims and battles/skirmishes took place before an all-out invasion, hopefully someone else can provide you with a more detailed explanation on this than I have.
For more info about Islam and answers to common questions:
http://www.whyislam.org/?TabId=165#Q11
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Sayf, thank you for clearing that up. So you’re pretty much saying that Muslims that don’t allow you to practice your non-Muslim faith aren’t really following real Islam then. But isn’t that mostly every Muslim country out there now? I can think of any Muslim country like Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, or Africa that will not persecute you if you practice another religion like Judaism, Buddhism, and Christianity.
Sayf maybe you can help me answer this one too. Just understand that I never been to the middle east so I am one of those people that only knows what goes on there by what the media shows me. But hopefully you can clarify this for me.
Do some Muslims actually bomb themselves and if so why do Muslims bomb themselves? What is the basis behind that? I mean, where did they get that idea from and is that in the Koran?
Last but not least Muslims that practice that kind of act or suicide, are they twisting the Koran and lying? I appreciate your time Sayf.
Even though I try to give the media the benefit of the doubt, they consistently show misrepresentation and bigotry towards Muslims. The truth is there is a lot of good going on our there but it’s not being shown in the media and it escapes through people’s minds because of the confirmation bias.
With that being said, you should check out the story of a woman named Yvonne Ridley. She was a woman who was captured by the Taliban just before and during the US invasion who has first hand experience in Afghanistan as a foreigner and she eventually converted to Islam. She has quite the entertaining and captivating story and I’m sure you can find it on youtube.
Another example, here’s an American non-Muslim who resides in Saudi Arabia and studies at KAUST. I’ve been following his blog because I’m interested in the school and he seems to be having a very awesome time there.
As for the other question about suicide bombers, the short answer is that it is completely against Islam. Even if let’s say a person is justified in fighting against oppressors, there are still very important ethics of war that can’t be compromised. This includes harming civilians, women/children, even unnecessary destruction of wildlife. Suicide is also completely forbidden in Islam, the ends simply do not justify the means.
I’m sure you might ask, well if it’s that clear cut in Islam then why is it still happening? A lot of it has to do with ignorance/lack of education, poverty, desperation, people taking advantage of their situation etc. At the end of the day though, it still doesn’t justify evil actions BUT it’s not my place to judge individual people and condemn them to hellfire, only the Creator can judge people.
I hope that answers your questions nicely, and there’s a lot of info in the links I’ve given you for you to check out. Please don’t hesitate to continue asking if you have any more questions!
Sayf, I still have some difficulty understanding the mind set and resources of Islam.
When Muslims commit violent crimes you say they don’t get that from the Koran. So where do they get it from then? Obviously its either from 1 or two sources. Either from the Koran or the religious leaders, scholars, and high Muslim officials and teachers.
If its from the caliphs and other high leading Muslim figures, then they are either leading many Muslims astray by being corrupt or they are following the Koran.
So I guess it boils down to whose interpretation is more correct. The teachers and leaders in the middle east or yours. Why should I personally take your answer over theirs? And shouldn’t a religious leader know more about the Koran then you do?
Pretty much what your telling me is this:
If a Muslim scholar and Muslim leader in Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan uses violent and claims they are following true Islam, then according to you, they are ignorant, foolish, and are twisting the religion? Am I right?
Also Sayf, let’s say that I was a news reporter in the middle east and I interview a jihad suicide bomber. If I asked them where they got that idea from how would you think they would respond? And why should I believe your answer more than theirs? Why? I guess that’s where I am confused really. Who should I believe and why?
Yes, I do know that the media such as the news never are really fair by only show more bad stuff then th good stuff but the point is this: The bad stuff is a reality! Unfortunately some of it is true especially when I listen to whats happening in Britain. Again Sayf, if you asked those Muslims in Britian where they got that idea from, they say its from the Koran!!! Yikes! So that leads me back to the original question, why should I believe you over them?
I have never heard of Muslim organizations that are against Muslim violence! I never seen or heard of Muslim burning down a Osam bin Laden picture and claiming that they are against violent Muslims. Why is that?
Sorry for the late reply, I didn’t see your post until now. If you would like, we could either continue this conversation here or on MSN.
Two issues need to be addressed here:
The first problem is that through the availability heuristic, you’ve come to the conclusion that the majority of Muslims (either here or the Middle East) are radicals, which couldn’t be further from the truth. The majority of Muslims live by mainstream Islam and it’s beautiful teachings which I’ve presented before you. This psychological bias leads someone to believe that radicals and extremists are the majority simply because the observation is more traumatic. It’s like being afraid of roller coasters because they seem scary, when in reality a person has a much higher chance of dying on the way to the theme-park then on a ride.
The second issue which I’m very glad you brought up is about interpretation. What makes one person’s interpretation correct and the other one’s incorrect? The answer is extremely important and surprisingly simple, just turn to the Qur’an and Sunnah (actions of the Prophet peace be upon him). Who better to learn the religion from than the one who began the call to it? You may be a little surprised at this point because it seems the radicals are also referring to the Qur’an and Sunnah – well are they really? I invite you to actually learn about the Qur’an and Sunnah and see for yourself how such extremism is supposedly “open to interpretation”. A person can take any book they want and misconstrue it to fit their agenda, but it isn’t necessarily correct academically. I could sit here and claim that the award-winning book To Kill a Mockingbird encourages me to kill mockingbirds – how ridiculous does that sound?
Islam is an extremely academic religion. I encourage you to take on this academic study critically and objectively and you shall see for yourself how the religion presents itself.
To be honest I’m disappointed in this sentence. I’ve sent you several links – have you been looking through them? A lot of your questions are actually answered already in the link I sent you:
http://www.whyislam.org/
Here’s another:
http://muslimmatters.org/2009/02/09/muslim-scholars%E2%80%94west%E2%80%99s-natural-allies-in-fighting-scourge-of-terrorism/
I encourage you to look through the information I’ve provided and don’t be hesitant to continue probing and asking critical questions.
Sayf thank you once again.
I never ever once said all Muslims are terrorist. Obviously they aren’t. I haven’t seen any and the ones I have seen are friendly and nice people. I was only referring to some Muslims, not all, particularly what we call extremist.
Also Sayf. you say that Islam is an academic religion. So you are assuming that only terrorist are uneducated and nonacademic. That is not the case. Actually most of them are academic and strict to the Koran. Here are examples:
Amin Al-Husseini
Abdullah Yusuf Azzam (Sunni Islamic Scholar who mentored Osama bin Laden)
Sayyid Qutb (father of modern jihad. He memorized the entire Quran at the age of 10 and graduate from Dar al-Ulum University)
Hassan al-Bann- a school teacher and founder of the Muslim Brotherhood
These men supported and influence Muslim violence and yet they were highly educated in the Islam religion
On one occasion you say that these Muslims didn’t get in from the Koran and then you go on to say that they mistranslated the Koran. That just confused me more.
All i know is one thing, they had to get it from somewhere and I know they all didn’t just invent it in their heads.
You should check out these links. What you say and what they say can confuse Westerners. Could you please clarify this. Thank you Sayf for having patience with me. Please let me know what your thoughts are on these:
-Edited. No islamophobic sites permitted. It is becoming clear where you get your misinformation from. Rather than have everyone refute nonsense, why not start from scratch and understand what Islam means to Muslims!
No, that’s not what I’m assuming my friend. Someone who says something which is against Islam doesn’t necessarily have their head in the ground, they could be very well educated and well-versed, but that doesn’t prevent them from erring in presenting proper academic proof from the Qur’an and Sunnah to support their claims.
Are you under the impression that a few poorly (Islamically) versed western Muslims promote mainstream Islam – whose knowledge is surpassed by radicals in the Middle East? What I’m explaining to you about the nature of Islam is backed by thousands of well-educated scholars all over the globe. Check out the list of authors on the side and see how many scholars are posting on this little blog alone. Here‘s another Islamic institute in the west. The brother who wrote this article also has a degree in Islamic studies. Mind you this is all just to name a few.
When I said Islam is an extremely academic religion – I meant claims are backed by providing strong proof from the Qur’an and Sunnah objectively and critically which has to be met with rigorous analysis from the rest of the Muslim academic world – and the majority of them are making the message clear for you. Simply cutting and pasting verses and hadiths out of context is not enough – which is my point.
With that in mind, I want you to take a second look at the links you sent me and what the vast, vast majority of Muslim academia around the globe have to say about such claims. How horribly biased is the first video? Did you notice those same “reporters’ also hinted at believing Obama was a secret Muslim? Do you really think such Islamophobes would tell you that there are hundreds of scholars in Britain alone who would condemn any sort of sympathy for terrorist acts.
The man claimed jihad is an integral part of the Islamic faith, which is completely true backed by Islamic scripture – however that provides absolutely no proof for supporting terrorism. Evidence from the Qur’an and Sunnah for military action as promotion of terrorism – do you see the false leap in logic with that? Islam does not teach complete pacifism, there is a place for self-defense. People seem to have a double standard when loving characters like Batman and Spiderman yet take issue with the fact that military action exists within Islam. However it is important to keep in mind this is all under the strict guidelines I showed you – I don’t think I need to repeat what Islamonline with their massive team of scholars and influence all over the globe has already presented (with proof from the Qur’an and Sunnah).
Look at the second link you sent me again carefully:
Don’t you see what’s wrong with this? Muslim scholars provide proof from authentic Islamic scripture and their counter-proof is the logical fallacy of appeal to tradition – who is really being disingenuous? The rest of the scripture they quote is about the rank of warriors, which we already discussed above and is another logical fallacy (straw-man argument) because the topic in question is suicide bombing – not about those who fight legitimately in self-defense.
The people in the links you showed me are no different from the extremists on the other end of the spectrum – fueled by hatred in tunnel vision compromising logic and the science of Islamic jurisprudence along the way.
It’s like going to the KKK for information about African-Americans then going to the Black Panthers for their response when you have people who listen to Martin Luther King Jr. all around you. Sure, read what you want to read but at least find the mainstream and check out the proof they bring to the table.
Again, please keep the conversation going if you have more queries.
Sayf I have read that links of the articles that you gave me. All it talked about was to integrate academic systems in which Muslim scholars could create peaceful Muslims by educating them on “authentic” Islam.
Sayf, there’s a few problems with that.
1. Its only preventive maintenance. It’s to stop future Muslims from being recruited by extremist. But the issue is “what about those that are part of the extremist vision now”? So what are we to do with them? Including you Sayf, what would you do personally if you were to encounter a Muslim extremist? I hardly doubt that using intellect and scholarship by busting out the Koran will change their will and attitude especially if they are carrying guns.
2. Those are only future plans that haven’t been executed yet. At this point its only wishful thinking. I’ve been to various Muslim websites against terrorism and all they mention was what their mission statement was and what the peaceful Muslims were doing to establish peace among other nations. That’s not the problem Sayf. The problem is what exactly are these peaceful Muslims doing against non-peaceful Muslims????
So could you please tell me in your own words what are Muslims organizations exactly doing (not saying what they are going to do) that is indicating opposition directly against violent extremist Muslims?
Its just very hard to believe that’s even working when extremist is at a all time high and recruitment is increasing more than ever. I never hear about some Buddhist militia attacking a Muslim village, or a Christian extremist movement bombing some Muslim town, or some Hindu dictator using the Vedas to recruit Hindus to overthrow the Muslim government. I only hear Islam.
Sayf, here is an analogy to illustrate where I am going with this:
Let’s say that there are 100 Muslims and some Westerners in a room. 80 of them are peaceful and 20 of them are violent extremist. Now the Westerners can point out that the majority are peaceful so its obvious that Islam is probably peaceful. However, the Westerner is not concerned about the peaceful ones by saying “well i can live in peace knowing that they are mostly peaceful”. No Sayf, the Westerner is going to say “what are we suppose to do with the other 20% since this is a reality and it will affect me”?
What proactive measures are we suppose to do at this current moment? Do we engage in physical war to eradicate them? Do we use scholar intellect to convince them otherwise while they are carrying guns and bombs? If so, how are we to initiate a plan to gather all of them in one room while we use words against their guns while being safe? Also, the root of the problem is powerful leaders than support suicide bombings. So Sayf, how do you suppose we should handle them? Bring a scholar to go out and debate with them and try to convince them why their philosophy is dead wrong??? And do you honestly think that’s going to work? Or do you think we should just execute them?
I just think in my opinion, Muslims are spending too much time convincing everyone how they are a peaceful religion instead of attacking the most important issue of “what needs to be done against the violent Muslims NOW and what is actually going to work.”
Look forward hearing from you and thank you again for your enduring patience, brotherly respect, and concern.
Sayf, I just wanted to add on to my previous comment.
I know there are a lot of Muslims that are silent on the issue against Muslim extremist and there are also some that are against it. They condemn it, they denounce it, they are even outrage by it.
However, condemnation and denouncing is not enough. Why? Because after the 9/11 attacks there are actually more Muslim terrorist then ever. In fact there are more pamphlets about killing non-believers being circulated especially in the UK more than ever. The polls don’t lie and the fact is that there is an increasing radicalization, indoctrination, and endorsement more than ever.
If non-Muslims were to have confidence than Islam is not a violent religion then they need to start seeing Muslims stand up against their counterparts and combat extremism by some form of action instead of just declaration such as:
1. going to Pakistan or Iran and install teachers to teach kids against terrorism and true Islam
2. form some sort of organization that detects, monitors, and intercepts terrorist activities
3. Police these terrorist by capturing and imprisoning them.
So why are Muslims doing any of this? I have never heard of a peaceful Muslim take down an extremist Muslim and send them to jail in a non-Muslim country. Never! If so please send me a link.
I see Muslims spend more time being passionate about defending against islamaphobia than being strategically offensive against extremist. We want to see action on behalf of these peaceful Muslims and not just talking about how much they are against it. We get that already
I’m assuming based on how this conversation has shifted that you have understood that Islam is not a violent religion, and that Islamic terrorism is an oxymoron.
With that being said, you really shouldn’t underestimate the power of education. The number of Muslims and non-Muslims who have turned away from fatalistic hate is unbelievable. We’re really saving lives here, and yes even those in armed conflict who truly care about what their religion asks of them can be educated (and I’ve seen this in a doc).
However, this is being severely undermined. Armed conflict is not the solution here my friend, the West’s foreign policy is creating its own terrorists. Just check out these statistics:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
Despite claims of “seeking peace”, Israel continues to expand its borders beyond what the UN is allowing with more and more illegal settlements. If you were a Palestinian, how would you feel if you’re home was demolished?
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
If you were in Iraq and your entire family was killed by foreign troops (God forbid), how would you feel about them?
The truth is the world is not a safer place because of what Western leadership is doing in the world, and to be honest it’s my opinion that they don’t really care too much either. Here’s why I believe so right from the horse’s mouth:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4383835181717429209#
This doc is overall biased but I want you to pay attention to a very special moment from 53:00 – 56:00. Henry Kissinger says the US was prepared to invade Saudi Arabia if King Faisal continued to refuse them oil. Do you realize the insanity behind such a statement? The US was willing to invade the holiest place for more than 1 billion people in the world to secure oil!
And yes, there are violent activities perpetrated by non-Muslims that don’t get very much media attention, here are a few examples:
http://muslimmatters.org/2010/05/28/cair-texas-radio-host-urges-bombing-of-ny-mosque/
http://muslimmatters.org/2010/05/11/first-coast-news-explosion-fire-at-islamic-center-in-jacksonville-targeted-possibly-a-hate-crime/
http://muslimmatters.org/2010/02/25/newsweek-should-joseph-stack-be-called-a-terrorist/
Here are a few examples of Muslims actually stopping terrorist activities:
http://muslimmatters.org/2010/05/13/obama-please-phone-the-muslim-street-vendor-hero-too/
http://muslimmatters.org/2010/04/21/nyt-militia-draws-distinctions-between-groups/
I want to make it clear that I’m not placing the blame squarely on Western foreign policy, there are serious problems within the Muslim world as well. I want you to take from this an objective, honest look at the world and understand the very real multiple factors contributing to the problems we see today.
If you’re asking me how to save the planet, the short answer is I don’t know and it’s not in my capabilities. All you and I could really do is what we can within our potential to contribute positively to the world.
@moderators: Im sorry, I guess I submitted a post in the wrong place above. I am submitting the same post again. Please delete the previous one because it is the same as the one below..
Sayf,
I guess Jason had asked the wrongs questions here. The issue today is not about which interpretation is right, or who is wrong and who is right. As you said, in theory, Islam may be a peaceful religion. Again as you said, maybe the Quran has given instructions to Muslims not to kill unless provoked or attacked.
Anas has explain to us patiently and clearly the real interpretation about Quranic verses and how some standalone Quranic verses should actually be studied in the context in which they were written and that they should be used in conjunction with other Quranic verses.
My point is this:
It is very well to write an article and prove that Islam does not warrant killing innocent people.
But sadly today, most terrorists are Muslims (If I say that all terrorists are Muslim, it will lead us to a different argument).
Why? Is it not because radical Imams and terrorist organisations use standalone Quranic verses to prove their people that Islam orders them to kill all kafirs?
Do those people, who decide to join terrorist organisations, care anything about the context in which certain Quranic verses were written? Why are they not aware of the contextual usage as has been explained here? Why is it easy and possible for fundamentalist organisations to encourage Muslims to blow themselves up and kill innocents in the process?
Now my biggest question: Why is this type of misinterpretation happening only in Islam? Is it not because of the fact that only Islam provides the the people in power(like the Imams) the opportunity to contort and misinterpret the verses in their Holy Book? Why is this not happening in other religions? In this context, is it not true that the way the Quran is written, is flawed, which directly leads to misinterpretation?
As Brother Sayf mentioned in one of his earlier comments,
One of the reason why it appears that muslims are getting drawn into acts of voilence is primarily because the current conflict areas/war-zones are mainly populated by Muslims. Just think, From when did this word “Islamic terrorism” started surfacing up ? Did this word existed before west invaded the muslim lands ?
I am not justifying the mindless voilence being perpetrated by terrorists, There can be no justification for it even in the pretext of injustice done by invaders of their lands….. But it is important to take all facts into account before blaming a particular community. It is important to understand how much phycological and mental stress these people (living in such conflict areas ) have to go through ….and in such situations, You really cannot control everyone and stop all from getting taken over by rage and drawn into acts of unjustified voilence…
As for the question on what Muslims are doing to stop terrorism, All our scholars and muslim organizations are trying their best to spread the teachings of Qura’n that there is no justification of killing innocents in Islam.
At the same time, we also need to ask how much West is ready to stop these voilence? I hope you all know that its the west governments and their giant corporations who are making the most of profits in such conflct areas….Will someone from West standup for this and ask their govt to end these injustices??
Arif,
I dont think the various religious sects worshipping their faith in Pakistan were western agressors. Why were they blasted while they were praying?
Every religion has some amount of extremism built into it. However, why is that only followers of a particular religion go out and seek revenge against their own (not even western kafirs!) And that too children, elderly and normal peaceful humans.
There has to be a logic to it. Right?
I agree that there is logic only when High Caste Hindus brutally murder and rape Low Caste Hindus. They are doing it because their book says so. However when one muslim kills another muslim unjustly then he is either a psycho or he is not a real muslim but just a namesake muslim. There is no logic to it.
My friend, please reason and distinguish between crime and terror.
Let us have a clear disctinction, else, murder, rape, kicking in the eye, punching the nose will all constitute terrorism
We are talking about a bigger picture here. If you do not want to see it, none can help. You can feel bad, retort to the posts and post your opinions, but that does not change the reality.
I am not a hindu or Indian for that matter. You will call that whole world is against Islam, my question is, why is such a need? Why things have come to this? Islam is today one of the largest (and as per arguements, peaceful) religions in the world and not minority by any means. Still why do I not hear terrorism related to other religions in such large numbers? Is that a media propaganda? Why would anyone do that?
These are complex questions and you can dismiss them as whole world against Islam or that kind of arguement.
Your posts above are very myopic and you are trying to justify one wrong by another. It is like, since my neighbour beats his wife, it is okay to beat my wife
Fortunately today it is coming to be known even in the media that the terrorist attacks done in India were done by Hindu terrorists and then blamed on innocent muslims. So even by that logic, all Hindus are not terrorists but all terrorists are Hindus. And by the way the person killed unjustly will not care whether he was killed by a Hindu terrorist or criminal!
Hello Prasad nice to have you here!
http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/not-all-terrorists-are-muslims/
I think that should be sufficient. Your paradigm is hurt by the availability heuristic, which you can thank the media for. It turns out Germans don’t cut the hands of Belgian babies either, go figure!
http://www.100megspop3.com/bark/Propaganda.html
Is it really that surprising that war comes with propaganda? It’s a lot easier to pass off the mass-deaths of sub-humans isn’t it? History doesn’t repeat itself, but it sure rhymes.
I’ll be glad to continue this discussion with you if you have more questions!
Sayf there are interesting points from everyone and a lot of great contributions to this discussion. I will gather all of my thought as I examine these highlights at a later time.
Anyways, you mentioned that education is a powerful tool. Indeed. That is the reason why lots of Extremist outsource and become very successful in recruiting other Muslims from universities. Through education. Its a double side on the coin.
You have to wonder about this Sayf: How is that a large portion of Muslims that are recruited to become terrorist are in fact derived directly from Universities??? These Muslims are actually educated, politically motivated, seek understanding for their Islamic faith, are are perpetually rooted to their Islamic culture.
So what is powerful enough to capture the thoughts of these academically oriented Muslims to transform them into terrorist??? The only thing I can logically conclude is that these recruiters are actually providing compelling, irrefutable, and very hard substantial evidence from the Koran to support the killing of infidels and non-believers.
One should seriously contemplate on that: how some very well educated Muslim studying in a university without a background of violence slowly but surely become a terrorist!
Is it fear that allows them to join the gang? Is it because these terrorist could inflict such powerful emotions to overcome their will? Or is it in fact that these terrorist speak the truth about the Koran actually preaching about killing infidels and non-believers. ( i fear for the latter)
And do you know why I am concerned Sayf? Its because Islam is the future and it will affect me. As we speak Islamic terrorism (Westerner’s perspective) or killing infidels in the name of Allah ( an extremist perspective) is moving up in such an alarming rate. I never hear Buddhist suicide bombers , or Christian terrorist claims 200 lives in Africa, or Jews passing out pamphlets in European universities about killing non-believers. Only in name of Islam. This is a reality Sayf. There are actually more extremist now than ever and is predicted to grow exponentially and most of the converts are already Muslims. And what makes it worst is that unfortunately most of them were already Muslims that knew the Koran and grew in the Muslim faith already. Most of the converts are in democratic countries where they can make a free choice and aren’t forced unlike theocratic ruled governments in the middle east. So what is the reason behind the success of these terrorist recruiters?
Curious on your position Sayf and look forward to your answers or anyone else here.
I’m actually very disappointed in your last reply. I’ve given you more than enough information and statistics (see post just above you) that speak volumes for a person coming to the discussion reasonably and objectively – but it seems you have some preconceived notions that you keep trying to “prove” in the discussion.
There’s no need to keep going in circles, all the information is there, it’s up to you if you want to block them from your paradigm or not.
Its so hard to believe that every single Muslim leader that supports jihad in terms of killing infidels are ALL in great error of the Koran. Despite that some of them have a vast devotion in Koranic studies and some of them are even scholars, suffis, shahs, mullah, imams, they are ALL in error according to you. The Islamic militant leaders in Somalia, in Jordan, in Pakistan, in the Philippines are all in error. Since according to Pewpolls, countries like Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco that mostly supports suicide bombings and justify the use of violence to eradicate infidels are entirely wrong! Or how about the 72% of Algeria that supports Osama bin Laden? Imagine that, entire countries are just plain dead wrong and completely ignorant about the Koran. So, pretty much I know more about the Koranic concept of peace than an entire Muslim dominant country! Please excuse my sarcasm….
Unfortunately that thing that you label as “error” is killing so many people. And yet according to you, we are suppose to educate the educated? I guess only in due time the future will unfold.
Also Sayf, to be honest I’m the one thats actually disappointed with your recent answers as you failed or avoided the critical questions.But I appreciate your genuine efforts and approach as I realize that my questions can be demanding and not everyone has all the answers. I commend you for your valiant efforts though.
Anyways, you show me links to facts and documentation on how the West is creating terrorist and that its responsible for this and that. Do I believe that? Yes. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are Islamic terrorist that think they are fighting in the name of Allah. This blog isn’t dedicated to argue about Western governments, this is about Islam. When I say Westerner, I use it synonymously with non-Muslim. I understand that evil is not contingent on any culture, society, or religion. Furthermore, I can also use links and documentation in my favor like show you a picture of an 8 year old boy in Iran having his hands run over by a truck for stealing based on the Sharia Law or how the the Somali militant group al-Shabaab killed 50 people yesterday when they were watching the World Cup, or a Catholic man beaten and having his hand cut off for asking a question about Mohammed, or how hundreds of innocent children are blown to pieces by an Islamic bomber while they are waiting in line for humanitarian aid! These are all recent events. I can easily access facts that supports each position, Sayf.
Even though there are more Jewish terrorist in US soil or more female Hindu suicide bombers as compared to Islamic ones, at least they are exclusive. Islamic fundamentalist has a mission which is to expand by means of recruitment. That’s the scary part and that separates it from the rest of the groups. What’s even scarier is how its gaining momentum and nothing seems to be working yet.
So far everyone here is telling me this: If a Muslim is peaceful and practice the pillars of Islam faithfully then he is a true Muslim. However if a Muslim can memorize the entire Koran, practices the pillars everyday, and even graduated in Al-Azhar, but somehow manages to interpret the Koran in support of jihad killings of infidels, he is not a true Muslim and is pretty much ignorant to the Islamic faith. hmmmm.. now what’s wrong with this reasoning?
And who said that mainstream Islam is responsible for the defining what True Islam is?
Was mainstream Germany back in World War II defining the identity of what a true German was? Was mainstream America before the Civil War suppose to define what universal human rights were?
…and the solution to liberate and demolish extremism is somehow to further educate them and point out where they are wrong? That’s the remedy that’s going to work huh? Doesn’t sound comforting at all. Its one thing to ask for a change of perception about Islam and its another thing to provide better evidence to make such a change.
Sayf since you seem to represent the common educated and modest Muslim i guess I’ll turn the spotlight to you specifically instead of the general. With that said, how do you view your role in regards to the Sharia Law? Do you support it, are you a reformist or are you against it?
I got my hands on the data from Pewpolls, manipulating and misrepresenting information isn’t cool. Here is the link.
Algeria isn’t on the list (is there another one?), and the question doesn’t even ask about support of Bin Laden, it asks about their confidence in him to do the right thing, such details are crucial drawing scientific conclusions from surveys.
With regard to your bit about “supporting suicide bombings and justifying violence to eradicate infidels”, that’s simply not true. The question doesn’t say that, it asks if “suicide bombings are justified against civilian targets in order to defend Islam from its enemies”, there’s a huge difference. Here’s the data:
Jordan: 56% (never), 26% (rarely).
Lebanon: 44% (never) 18% (rarely).
Morocco is not on the list.
With the exception of Lebanon, Palestine and Nigeria, every single other country (6/9) asked gave the majority opinion that it was never justified and in all of these six the second highest opinion was rarely justified.
Another interesting point, every single country shows the trend of increase over time for people strictly against such actions (even Palestine). Check out Pakistan:
Summer 2002 – 38% (Never)
Spring 2009 – 87% (Never)
I don’t think we’re going to benefit from any more discussion, it seems like your questioning is an attempt to prove the points of Islamophobic websites rather than learn Islam from Muslims. You should check out more anti-Islamophobic websites.
Two facts have been my main points and they remain:
1) Majority of Muslims and Muslim scholars (graduates from Islamic Universities) are against extremism.
2) The damage done by non-Muslim extremism (including Western foreign policy) both feeds and significantly outweighs the damage done by Muslim extremism (not to say two wrongs make a right).
Thanks for the discussion Jason, but I think we’re finished here.
Misrepresenting information? I think you are misinterpreting information. I also think my discussions are coming to a close since there seems to be some form of non-acceptance and negation towards some facts.
Um no it doesn’t say that. It says confidence as a leader. If you truly read the content correctly, that category was about “support for terror” not doing the “right thing.” You’re now guilty of adding words Sayf. That’s not cool. By the ways, you didn’t clarify what the “right thing” was and according to who’s perspective. Common sense dictates that the “right thing” of Osama’s leadership is to eradicate all those that oppose Islam. What else would you think Osama would do?..lol
http://pewglobal.org/2005/07/14/islamic-extremism-common-concern-for-muslim-and-western-publics/
Sayf, so who are the enemies of Islam according to Jordan, Algeria, Somalia, etc? I’m going to take a wild guess here: ALL non-Muslims who are considered infidels, apostates, the greater Satan, or the lesser Satan as quoted by the Iranian president, and all those that “oppress” them by not allowing them to Islamacize everything. That doesn’t change the fact that 56% of Jordan supports that! Sayf, if you aren’t against bombing, you are for it. Justification is a form of support which doesn’t necessarily equate to being proactive. I think that what you were thinking.
I admit the Westerners are ignorant of Islam and there are vile and corrupt people installed in our goverments motivated by greed. But at least I admit that. I base it on facts not feelings. But on the contrary you make an audacious claim that ALL extremist are pretty much ignorant even to this day and that every one of their interpretation collectively of the hadiths, biography, and Koran are entirely wrong! Don’t you think they would get it by now after a thousand years? If you say that there are more scholars that support peace and the non-use of violence then why don’t these extremist reatlize that then and comform? Instead history is indicating that more extremist are coming out of homes of once peaceful Islams. That’s a tough cookie to bite Sayf and should require further investigation. I just don’t get how Islam is the largest group this world has ever seen to be suceptible to error in their own holy book causing them to go on a mass killing spree. I’m curious now; since you seem to research a lot and can pull up all these facts then do you know where I can find information on a Muslim extremist debating with a “peaceful” Muslim scholar about the interpretation of authenitic Islam?? That’s all I ask. I’m also suprised how you appear to know so much but didn’t know what initiated the Crusades..hmmm..nevermind that. I also won’t include the fact that you avoided the question if you are in support of the installment of Sharia Law.
Its ironic how I genuinely seek the truth and when I ask driven questions and show what other say for clarification its automatically considered “islamaphobic”.Every single time, all the time. I think that reveals the real biased nature in this site. Its like me going to an ethnic person after I caught him stealing and all he can say every time is “you’re being racist”….its getting old and overused.
Just keep in mind while we are having this conversation, more and more, what you call “Muslim perpetrators” are adding bodies to the pile of bloodshed because they think Allah requires that for them. While all your scholars are insisting that Islam is so peaceful its the extremist that are actually being successful by being more proactive and heavily engaged.
Well Sayf, thanks for this adventure. I will continue to pray for guidance, revelation, and peace for everyone. I truly hope you are right and that I am gravely wrong. I wish that in 5 to 10 years Peaceful Muslims will become victorious over extremist and that the trends are showing that there are less extremist in this world. All we can do is pray and let God take the world to its course.
You have such a idiosyncratic view of the world that it is hilarious. Have you seen that body tolls on the muslim side of conflict. More that a million people dead in Iraq, Thousands of people in Afghanistan, and hundreds in Pakistan from drone attacks. Thousands killed in Chechnya by Russia whom Bush supported, Thousands killed in palestine just this year, Thousands killed in Kashmir.
You guys really are blind asking muslims the question that who is violent. Yeah you occupy there lands, kill millions of them without any issue and than ask them why are reacting this way. Well anybody with a small sense of mind would say that it is your own god damn fault. I am not even mentioning the massacre that you guys did when western nations colonized the muslims.
Peace cannot happen in vaccum. It need two party to be peaceful and respecting each other lives. On one hand you do not give a damn if a muslim die and on the other hand when the muslims react to it you say well why are you being so extreme.
Muslims are condemning the extremism within there own circles for years. Countless fatwas exist from the muslim scholars and the leaders are already puppet of western nations. Just google it and you will find many many fatwas by scholars of highest position condeming senseless acts of violence.
May be if you start asking your own people the question about killing muslims that would help.
Suhail please don’t comment waaay after I already covered that. You’re being hilarious now. At least pay your due diligence and read what I wrote prior to commenting. I’ve already covered the fact that Westerners are just as evil and there are corrupt people in our government systems.
We already know that Westerners and Christians have committed acts of violence as well as Hindus. So has communism. Muslims are without exempt either.
Study history too before wasting time and displaying your ignorance. Look at the Crusades. Muslims expanded almost all through Europe, Asia, and Africa even massacring thousands of people who didn’t convert. You actually think they spread so fast by evangelism only? thats funny if you think that.
Look at what Muslims did to the Armenians. That was one of the worst genocides in the history of mankind and unfortunately its almost forgotten by being swept under the rug. So bad it even Hitler alluded it.
Last but not least, I am going to give you a perfect example:
Look at Sweden and Norway today! They were once voted the most peaceful countries in the world with the least crime rate. Now that Muslims are invading those countries and immigrating there, crime has sky rocketed. 75% of crimes are committed by foreign Muslims there! And you know what? There is very little of no Western influence or aid there. That is a perfect isolated case. Should I also add Somalia which was voted one of the most dangerous countries in the world? Oh and who lives there? That’s right, mostly Muslims.
I also acknowledge the fact that fatwas were already issued by Muslims that wish to fight against violence. I added to that by stating that it was more vocal condemnations than any actual pro-action.
So please save yourself the time by understanding current affairs and history as well as read what I wrote first my friend before you just jump randomly into conclusions and contribute.
Same senseless replies. You just post bogus and made up numbers of crimes due to immigration in sweden and norway. Come on you can be better than that.
Also nobody is disputing that in history muslims must have done some bad things. But what west have done cannot but be come closer to. Millions killed in world wars, Millions of muslims have been murdered in middle east by the western powers and you are crying about Armenia. Cry me a river. I am not defending what happened in Armenia but comparing it to what muslims have suffered is like comparing Watermelons and grapes.
Somalia is in the current state because of the western powers who are causing havoc there by supporting the warlords. Since you have included African nations into fray why don’t you comment on Rwanda where millions of people have been massacared and nobody gives a two hoot about it.
Western nations have been scourging Africa of its natural wealth for there own sake. They are flaming the wars for years which has caused this havoc on Africa.
By the way was it muslims who wiped out two whole cities in Japan with a nuclear bomb in a moment.
Here we go. Another run around.
Nazis killed millions, Communism killed Millions, Westerners killed millions, Christianity killed millions, Muslims killed millions…Suhail, we get it already. We can do this all day but it would be pointless…
You sit here and bash on Westerner society when its Western democracy that fights for your freedom to speak while you sit in your room and chat on this blog site..
Its Western democracy that accommodates your religion and gives you the rights to express yourself..Notice the Muslim extremist rallies in New York and Britain. You think Westerners or other religions can hold rallies in Saudi Arabia or Iraq without getting killed??
Its Western society that allows you to build Mosques and have the rights to worship. How hard do you think it would be to build a Buddhist monastery in Afghanistan or a Zorastrian temple in Somalia?
you didn’t think of that did you? I’m willing to bet you’re not even in a country that has Sharia Law in it. You’re probably in the US or England or somewhere in Europe
If the Western culture is so bad then go back to the east then and tell us about your living experiences and ALL the rights and conveniences you had to give up.
Ohhh, the irony my friend.
Muslims are going through a very troublesome and testing time. Their lands are invaded and they are oppressed in their own lands. Out of this , some muslims are getting taken over by the desire to take revenge and try to justify their actions (to themselves and to others) with religious text. Kudos to the majority of the muslim society who continues to differntiate right from wrong and critcise/condemn the wrong actions of their own rage driven people inspite of the injustes done by invaders. I hope and pray that Allah brings peace to the muslim lands and to the world. .
Some one was saying that even educated muslims are getting into such voilent acts. It is important to understand that when a person is driven by rage, It hardly matters whether he is a university graduate or an illiterate. and then incorrect religious interpretations becomes only a means to fuel revenge. Had this been any other non-muslim country undergoing such situation, We would have seen exactly the same pattern from their people… The only differnce will be that they will use some other means (e.g race, ethinicity, patriotism etc etc) instead of religion to fuel their revengeful actions….
There was mention of how “muslim” terrorist are adding bodies othe pile of bloodshed. Yes, this is true and unfortunate and they must be stopped.. But at the same time, have we compared this with the magnitude to loss of innocent ives done by western invaders in the name of fighting terroism?… And if we are so concered about loss of human lives, shouldn’t our first target of condemnation be the one who are causing greater damage ?
I hope we all remain focussed on the path of seeking truth. For anyone who is seeking to know Islam, the best option is to a read translation of Qura’an (by known Muslims and not by islamophobic experts
) with its proper contextual information (e.g time of revelation, situation at the time of revelation etc). Usually this contextual information is available in most of the available translations.
Its better to get first hand information and then, decide for yourself. And Allah knows very well the state of each of our hearts. Ultimately, we will all return to our creator and will be answerable to our creator on the day of judgement. May Allah make the day of judgement easy for us. Aameen !
“Let’s not debate religions, please” This is what uneducated people have been doing for thousands of years and using it as an excuse to kill people to forward their misguided beliefs. Cant we just believe the way we choose to believe without persecution from anyone else? It’s difficult enough to just raise kids and be a productive human being in the crazy world today.
Here is a simple litmus test for this issue that always stops pro-Islamic folks in their tracks.
Lets look at the facts….Over the last 20 yrs (that’s as far as I went back in my research), there have been over 200 verified terrorist attacks killing innocent men, women and children around the world, tied to Islam, or one of the wonderful Islamic groups that so call “misrepresent” what the religion of Islam is really about.
I wanted to paste one of the many “verified lists” here but was afraid it would have gotten deleted by the moderator as do so many on these type blogs and sites.
Here is the bottom line…can anyone out there on planet Earth provide a chronological list of over 200 terrorist attacks that killed thousands of innocent men, women and children alike, over the past 20 yrs. that were carried out by people of the exact same religion and in the name of their said religion?…lets say Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, or even Atheism for that matter.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE…someone give me that list. And please don’t insult me and the other thousands of people that would like that list as well, with the “going back to the stone age” to find some really consistent violence in the some obscure writings that haven’t really been verified, or cant really be applied in the last 20 yrs of human existence.
And also please don’t insult us with some reference to “military actions”, “police actions” or acts of “wars”…. Lets not blur my question with such misguided responses and ones that try to take away from my exact question.
Thanks and I really hope someone from your community can give me a viable answer to my exact, specific question and provide all of us with that list.
Oh yeah, one more thing. If you answer my question with a question as do so many that try to deflect serious debate, then we will all have our REAL answer about Islam, won’t we.
Mike….
Lol Dave, I’m a devout Christian myself, and I find your comments highly amusing.
If you want first hand accounts, please by all means, visit one of the many places that Buddhist extremists inhabit in Southeast Asia and openly declare yourself as a Muslim or Christian. Better yet, just take a walk down any town in southern India and proclaim either Muslim or Christian faith, and see what happens.
Let’s not even begin talking about what just about every religion did to the Jewish people.
Or here, go to Google, and search “Christian Missionary Atrocities” or actually, atrocities, and make sure you have a pot of coffee handy.
Here’s another one for you…Go ask a real Hawai’ian how they feel about the Christian missionaries that came and dominated their Islands, killed off some 90% of their population on some islands, just so they can build a few churches, spread their version of Christianity, and destroy the pagans.
Yes I said their version, because my version of Christianity, my worldview, doesn’t involve killing people to get my point across…It doesn’t involve a vengeful God that punish people for making choices, right or wrong.
The ability to choose for yourself, personally, was God’s greatest gift. I truly believe that we are ultimately responsible for our own salvation, or destruction. God certainly saves, but you have got to want to be saved.
Oh my goodness, could there be Muslims that even though they may not follow the same laws and edicts, but believes in peace just as I do?
Your comments are about as naive as someone living in a bubble. Please, travel the world, get out there, and see the truth for yourself. A third of my friends are Muslims, and some are Buddhists. Yeah we crack religious jokes on each other all the time, but we’re buddies. I certainly don’t prevent them from their daily prayers, just as they don’t stop me from praying before a meal, nor do I stop my Buddhist friends from not eating meat.
Is that so hard to believe that people of different religions can get along and live peacefully? I think that’s the real question.
When all that’s said and done, just about every major religion has committed atrocities (or still do) at some point in the human history…The Islam is probably the youngest faith (no insult intended btw), is going through their rounds of extremism, and the world is increasingly aware of their actions due to the advent of technology.
LOL Robert,
Thanks for proving my point exactly. You didnt give me that list whatsoever, did you?
Instead you threw things out there to distort and confuse the common folk, the ones that get all their news from NBC or CNN.
We can always go back and find some type of “shocking atrocities” as you call them. There are many third world or generally uncivilized countries that can attest to that Robert, hence look at Yemen or Chad.
But guess what Robert, I don’t walk down to a river everyday to get my families water or use the bathroom in a hole in a mud hut. Does that make me and my family better, no just living a bit more civilized in a civilized country that hasn’t killed each other off by the millions like they continue to do in Africa to this day…and I might add, in the most violent ways known to mankind with knives and machetes.
The types of terrorist attacks I was speaking of you might expect in areas around the world that display these lower levels of intelligence.
Now you can bury your head in the sand and call me a bigot or short sighted for making such a statement, but when it gets down to it, the honest truth usually ruffles quite a few feathers. ..especially when someone actually will stand up and speak what the majority of real working people really think in my country.
Ya see Robert, I dont live in a bubble and I don’t get to go and picket and march against the atrocities as you call them…I’m too busy working 2 jobs to support my family and raise intelligent, loving children. I just wish I could do it without worrying when I get on an airplane that a female 20 yr old member of Islam might take it out of the sky killing me and leaving my kids fatherless.
And of course there are Muslims that believe in peace Robert, lets not be cute here.
As I said in my first post …a person can always go find a certain group of people that despise another group of people and then go to some point in history or some place in the world where this certain group of people could go and speak of some group of people and end up getting their head blown off because of it.
The difference is you have to get a certain type of people to go to a certain type of place in the world and speak of their religion publicly to provoke these extremists to kill you. In my country just getting on an airplane is provocation enough for a Muslim homicide bomber to take 200 innocent people out of the sky…
and you guessed it Robert, the Muslim homicide bomber didnt even know the religions of the 200 people they killed, but your Buddhist extremists did.
One more thing, do you have that chronological list of the last 20 years where the Buddhist extremists have created at least 200 terror events by killing thousands of innocent people of all religions around the world?
Please Robert dont insult people..ya know there is a saying by folks that cant compare apples to apples in such debates.
“Dont bother me with the facts, I’ve already made up my mind”.
Let me know when you get that list together…..Have a blessed day.
Over the last 200 years, far more people have been killed by people who were not Muslims (6 million Jews in the holocaust anyone??) and in the “world wars” and other ravaging wars than any “muslim terrorism” has come close to. The death of an innocent civilian is the death of an innocent civilian, no matter if it comes at the hand of an individual or a state.
You have to worry more about dying in a car accident than having a 20 year old Muslim female on an airplane. You have the typical signs of islamophobia, and you need to check the real facts and real stats before being paranoid about Muslims.
Seriously, I am not going to argue with your types because your comment isn’t that smart. It’s typical garbage recycled around the internet. And the more you paint the world in black and white with all the Muslims out to get you, the more you agree with the radical violent Muslims who want to get you, and there are very few of them. Quit worrying about them and try building bridges with the vast majority of Muslims who want to be your neighbor without any desire to hurt you in any way. The only way that will happen is to drop your presumptions and go talk with a Muslim in real life.
Just out of curiosity,are any Muslims writing on this post actually from Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan, Somalia or any country predominantly Muslim or abiding by the Sharia Law?
Amad, when you say talk to a Muslim in real life, I can tell you having a conversation face to face with a Muslim in Afghanistan is not the same as talking to a Muslim in the US or Europe
The Muslims in the world need to police themselves of extremist who have taken their religion hostage.
You look around the world and where their is conflict and hostility you find radical Muslims at work.
As long as this continues the rest of the world perceives the Muslim religion as one of violence and terror.
You are either part of the solution or you become part of the problem.
Muslims need to unite in mass and take their religion back. Show the rest of the world it will not stand passive while atrocities are committed in the name of Islam.
This is aticle from http://quran-m.com/firas/en1 i wanted to share it with you
Preface
-Can you pls provide exact link and not copy/paste pls – Editor
Excellent post Murtaza.
I have only one arguement here:
So, if we all agree that Al Qaida and Taliban are not true muslims, why is anyone not speaking against them. I see huge rallies in New York, London and else where about west agression, people shouting slogans and carrying placards.
Should the same people, if they believe that Al Qaida is also doing wrong, not come up with similar rallies? Shout slogans and carry placards against them? I have never seen such rallies against terrorists, except for the one in Lahore recently when it was too much to blast innocent worshippers in a Mosque.
So, as educated liberals and followers of peace, when we can shout against western agression, why not do that against killing innocents in name of Jihad?
I do not have answer to that. I hope someone in this forum does.
May peace be upon us