Muslim Student Attacked, Held At Gun Point In Elmhurst, IL

*This story is currently undergoing investigation for possible false filing of a police claim. The post was originally written based on credible sources, which is key to remember. We will update the page accordingly and until then ask that you remember the story of Ifk, be not judgmental of your brothers’ and sisters’ mistakes, and to ask Allah for help in all afairs. Please see this official MM statement on this incident*

As if the Ohio masjid gassing wasn’t enough, a Muslim sister attending Elmhurst College in Elmhurst, IL was attacked and threatened for her life at gunpoint. The sister was an active member of the MSA who had been on the forefront of rallying and protesting against Guantanamo Bay during this recent semester. During recent events of the MSA, the sister amongst others had been verbally abused and threatened, including a death-related threat on her locker.

This past Thursday evening, the sister was followed into a women’s restroom and assaulted by a masked gunman. The gunman struck her with his gun, leaving her unconscious on the bathroom floor. Alhumdulillah, she is still alive.

While these events may anger us or leave us in fear, it’s incredible to know exactly what this sister did. The gunman, while holding a gun to her, was reported to have asked her, “now who is going to protect you?” The sister replied, “God will protect me… You can kill me, but you cannot take my soul.”

This is incredible, subhanAllah. Imagine if you yourself were in this situation at your school or workplace. How would you react? With pure faith and trust in Allah in the heat of the most critical moment, like this sister? We can only ask Allah to make that so. It reminds us of the persecution of the Sahaba before hijra and how they held onto their iman even when, literally, their lives were at stake like this sister.

We ask you to keep this sister in your dua’s, as well as the Muslims at this campus. MuslimMatters plans to follow up with this story, perhaps with an interview of the sister. Here’s the article from the Chicago Tribune on the story.

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elmhurst_college.jpgIll. campus tense after Muslim student reports being attack
By Gerry Smith and Russell Working
Chicago Tribune (MCT)
CHICAGO — Tensions that had been boiling at Elmhurst College in Elmhurst, Ill., spilled over this week amid reports that a Muslim student had been physically assaulted by a masked gunman.

The 19-year-old sophomore said she was hit with a gun in a bathroom in the college’s science center Thursday night, authorities said. Anti-Muslim graffiti was written on the wall, authorities said, similar to a threat written on the same student’s locker the week before that said: “Die Muslims, Rid us of your filth.”

As officials at the private college affiliated with the United Church of Christ on Friday called the incident a hate crime, hundreds of students rallied to show solidarity with their Muslim peers, who constitute about 25 of the school’s 3,300 students.

Elmhurst police are investigating, but declined to comment. Friends said the student had hired a lawyer, who did not return calls for comment.

A college spokesman said authorities have not found any witnesses of the attacker, who was described by the woman as a 5-foot-8 male wearing a mask and gloves.

The woman’s father said Friday that she said the gunman asked her: ” ‘Now who is going to protect you?’ ” He said his daughter replied: ” ‘God will protect me. . . . You can kill me, but you cannot take my soul.’ ”

Students have reported tensions on campus since students held a Sept. 18 rally to protest the Guantanamo Bay prison camp, and several witnesses reported that three female Muslim students, including the woman who reported the attack, were harassed and verbally threatened.

Since then, “it’s all kind of spiraled out of control,” said Soofia Ahmed, president of the Muslim Students Association.

After students were outraged by the graffiti on the woman’s locker, they staged a second rally Thursday, and the woman read a poem she had written about the events. Afterward, she said she was attacked.

“This is a blow against our entire community,” Elmhurst College President Alan Ray told students at Friday’s rally.

Carly Notorangelo, a friend of the woman, said she received a text message from her at 8:47 p.m. that said: “Emergency,” and referenced the Schaible Science Center.

Notorangelo said she found her friend lying face down, unconscious with her glasses knocked off. There was no blood, she said. She called campus security and 911.

Another friend of the woman said she sought treatment at an area hospital.

Ray said the college is beefing up security, including foot and car patrols by Elmhurst police and campus security offering to escort Muslim students around the campus.

(c) 2008, Chicago Tribune. Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Information Services.

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86 responses to “Muslim Student Attacked, Held At Gun Point In Elmhurst, IL”

  1. Nabeel says:

    Absolutely amazing masha’allah. Hats off to this sister. She said exactly what the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam said in a similar situation which led to his potential assailant’s Islam.

  2. MR says:

    May Allah (swt) allow this terrorist to be caught and brought to justice. Ameen!

  3. Very sad incident. May Allah protect the sister and all the believers. MashaAllah, the sister spoke with Iman in the face of her assailant.

    Our masjid was vandalized late last night. Someone threw bricks at the masjid, broke a light fixture, made some small holes in the wall, and broke a window. A neighbor heard all the commotion and called the police. We’re looking into identifying the culprit through surveillance video.

    Abdul Nasir

  4. Amad says:

    The story has been posted on DailyKos, where is it on its way to being (hopefully) a recommended story (that gets top billing on kos):
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/12/151932/42/47/628477

  5. Amad says:

    In fact, it has already landed in “Most Recommended Stories”… this is why I say that politically-progressive voices are our best allies against Islamophobia. Could this story get any traction on any conservative site? No way.

    Let’s remember that was a most recommended story on dailykos last time on the Dayton masjid incident that got the word “really” out on that incident, and by virtue of it, on the Obsession DVD.

  6. SaqibSaab says:

    @Imam Nasir, our masjid in Villa Park, IL was also vandalized this past week. For us it was in an empty shell of a new school building, but still, it’s vandalism! They also dumped chemical waste inside. Here’s the link: Villa Park mosque vandalized for fourth time

    May Allah protect us.

  7. Umm Reem says:

    may Allah azzawajal protect the sister and the believers.

    So….the major media/newspapers are on vacation these days?!!

  8. Dawud Israel says:

    Yet another reason to get active and involved:
    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=30785779785

    May Allah preserve this sister for having such strong tawakkul in Allah…and He does not disappoint those who trust in Him alone.

  9. Amad says:

    Please digg the story and stumble it

    This is the digg for the MM original story: http://digg.com/politics/Muslim_Student_Attacked_Held_At_Gun_Point_In_Elmhurst_IL

  10. Amad says:

    Here is more on the story Saqib mentioned:
    Link

  11. Ibrahim says:

    It’s a lesson for the men to get involved in their MSAs…too many MSAs are run by sisters from what I’ve seen and their inaction help expose them to such people.

    May Allah protect the sister and give all us high level of imaan.

  12. Olivia says:

    SubhanAllah, its hard to believe that such a thing happened right around the corner here. If “Obsession” is in any way responsible for these incidents, just think of all the evil deeds its creators are earning on a constant basis from all of these crimes.

    Alhamdulillah the sister is okay. What she said amazingly admirable. May Allah make us all firm like her if we ever face such a situation.

  13. AnonyMouse says:

    Laa hawla wa laa quwwata illaa billaah!
    Masha’Allah, the sister’s statement was amazing… ameen @ all the ad’iyah!

    I hope that at least now it will become undeniably obvious to the nay-sayers of Islamophobia that hatred towards Islam and Muslims DOES exist, and MUST be dealt with before any more such incidents occur.

  14. Amad says:

    78 diggs, that’s great mashallah!

    Any “stumblers”??

    I hope our readers will join us in using these tools (stumble, digg, etc.) to carry the word out to the vast WWW world. One way of stopping Islamophobia is bringing attention to crimes of Islamophobia. And where you can help is to get the word out. Digg/Stumble-upon/FB are all effective ways of mainstreaming this news.

    If you have question on how to use these, pls don’t hesitate to ask.

  15. bismillah. Amad, speaking for myself and others who would need a tutorial, maybe you could write one on using Digg/Stumble/trackbacks, etc.

    and post a link to the tutorial under Helping Hand or as a “Help” link next to “Email this” etc.

  16. ibnabeeomar says:

    i seriously wonder if i’d have my head on straight enough to give such a response in that situation, mashallah that sister is very strong, and the story was inspirational. May Allah (swt) strengthen the sister and reward her and her family, and let this trial be an expiation for them.

  17. ibnabeeomar says:

    abuabdullah – i had in the back of my mind to write something like that for a while now, i guess you gave me some motivation to get started on it.

    actually – im reading a book that discusses these types of issues, so maybe it will be included in the book review – we’ll see inshallah :)

  18. innalhamdolillah. bismillah. may Allah protect all of the Muslims, forgive us for our sins, give us the strength to stand up to oppression as this sister did, mashaAllah, and give us victory over injustice and hate. ameen.

    since a lot of parents (that’s “uncles” and “aunties” to you and me) are going to read about this violence (or hear rumors), i suggest a lot of smart brothers and sisters start developing a response for them: “why your son or daughter being active in the MSA is a good thing,” “how you and your friends can help your local MSA students be more secure,” “the truths and falsehoods about being active in the MSA,” etc.

  19. o son of the father of Omer — imagine, your younger brother if you have/had one could use the same kunya — please write the tutorial. :)

    and as i read your comment about the sister, mashaAllah, does any one of us fear that her last words — if Allah had so Decreed it for her — would be “la ilaha illAllah”?

    do any of us have any fear for such a sister from any torment in the Hereafter?

    and how does a person insure that he or she may die testifying that there is no deity worthy of worship other than Allah?

    by living the truth of those words day in and day out.

    may Allah accept from that sister. ameen. and may He give us such courage and conviction, such Iman, and such taqwa, and may He keep her and us on that path till the blessed day of our return to Him. ameen.

  20. tabman says:

    It definitely takes something to say those words when you have a gun pointed at you.

    ummmm should Muslim female students start carrying Pepper spray now ?

  21. JDsg says:

    Although I wrote my post this weekend on a slightly different topic, the same general principle applies here as it did to my post: …fear not men, but fear Me… (5:47)

    This sister gave a good answer; may she recover from her injuries, physical and psychic, quickly. Ameen!

  22. Shirtman says:

    SubhanAllah.

    May Allah protect this sister and give her the Firdaus.

    This is a very difficult time for her. Please keep her in your prayers.

    Shirtman.

  23. Robbyd says:

    I may be a Christian, but this disturbs me deeply. No matter what religion you come from, they all say do unto others etc. There is absolutely no reason for any extremeist, regardless of religion, to attack someone of differing beliefs. It just simply makes no sense! What could it possibly accomplish?! If anything, we should understand that we are all different and come together to solve bigger issues than whether or not you believe in the same God as I do.

    Praying for Peace.

    Robby

  24. Amad says:

    Thanks Robbyd, your sentiments are appreciated. I think there are many other good and decent Americans like you who may not share the faith, but share human decency and stand against hatred and bigotry of all kind. We need to take the discourse away from the promoters of islamophobia, starting with the dirty dozen (http://www.smearcasting.com)

  25. Ikram says:

    MashAllah. Amazing.

  26. abulhassan says:

    whats amazing about this sister is that she said that statement — GOD will protect me — to someone who clearly hates Islam. She did not think of what would be the best thing to say to decrease the likelihood of him hurting her. She challenged him DIRECTLY with the very faith that he hated so much. This was AMAZINGLY brave….wow. This is the real test, what would we do if faced with a situation like this?

  27. average american muslim says:

    may allah give this sister patience, may allah grant us victory. Ameen.

    alll these hate crimes remind me of a hadith of the Prophet (may the salah and salâm of Allâh be upon him), “Islâm began as something strange and will return to being something strange. So Tûba (a tree in Paradise) is for the strangers.”

    when islam was introduced and only a handful of people had accepted islam, they were all tortured. it was something strange to the nonmuslims of makka. when the early muslims were faced with these situations, it did not shake their belief. rather it strenghened it.

    Someone also threw a rock at the front door of our masjid, shattering the glass.

  28. may Allah protect the Muslims. Aameen.

    This is really crazy, subhanAllah. Just from the comments in this post, and adding the Dayton Ohio incident, in only the past few weeks, we have had the following:

    Muslim Children Gassed in Dayton Mosque

    Muslim Student Attacked, Held At Gun Point In Elmhurst, IL

    Our masjid was vandalized late last night. Someone threw bricks at the masjid, broke a light fixture, made some small holes in the wall, and broke a window.

    @Imam Nasir, our masjid in Villa Park, IL was also vandalized this past week. For us it was in an empty shell of a new school building, but still, it’s vandalism! They also dumped chemical waste inside.

    Someone also threw a rock at the front door of our masjid, shattering the glass.

    SubhanAllah, that is 5 incidents in the past few weeks (just the ones reported here, think how many of these minor vandalisms go unreported!). FOUR of which apparently occurred just a few days ago! I really think that the anger and evil in all of these Islamophobes are coming to surface… and it is no coincidence that this is happening in the same week where we hear about angry mobs and the like on the mccain campaign trail. (wouldn’t be surprised if it were in fact the same angry ppl involved in these acts of vandalism and violence). May Allah protect us all! Aameen.

  29. Amad says:

    Ahmad, you hit the nail on the head. If you go to the kos story and about 400 comments on it (with a grain of salt though because this is a liberal blog), it refers to the hatred that is growing in America.

    Also did folks notice how when the woman said that Obama was Arab, McCain’s response was, “no, he is a decent man” (approx) as if being an Arab was exclusive and separate from being decent.

    Inflammatory rhetoric will always lead to actions by those who feel they have to follow through with “action”, not just talk.

  30. Hamdi says:

    We have our own problems here in Sweden as well. I recently found out that a pregnant Muslimah was beaten by a group of people in a public bus in my hometown (the court proceedings confirmed that it was a hate crime). The brother who told me this mentioned that his wife and her friend were recently sitting in a public bus when some guys did the “I’ll-slit-your-throat” sign to them and then chased them after they stepped off the bus. Alhamdulillah, they managed to get into their homes before anything happened. And these are just local, recent events. I wont even go into the mosque burnings that Sweden has gotten used to these days. And they say that Islamophobia doesn’t exist…

  31. LearningArabic says:

    May Allah reward the sister for her courage.

    Please see the article below:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-threat10-2008oct10,0,1710757.story

    The article cited is about a Muslim attorney, Todd Gallinger, who recently received a death threat. Gallinger is running for Irvine City Council and has been criticized by his opponents for his work with CAIR. They accuse the council of ‘supporting terrorists’ and have labeled Gallinger as a ‘terrorist sympathizer.’

    Although his opponents are not responsible for the death threat, their comments have definitely contributed to the growing wave of Islamophobia and have promoted the climate of fear and hate.

  32. sincethestorm says:

    Amad,

    Also did folks notice how when the woman said that Obama was Arab, McCain’s response was, “no, he is a decent man” (approx) as if being an Arab was exclusive and separate from being decent.

    Good pick up! I think your skills are sharping….are you a volunteer for CAIR media watch?

  33. Amad says:

    sincethestorm, actually I did work for CAIR’s media watch a long time ago, with Sr. Ruth and Br. Iesa, who was the ex. director of CAIR-Houston. As for this “catch”, I have to credit it to keeping an eye on other blogs, with Dailykos jumping on this one :)

    Appreciate the compliments though :)

  34. Ibrahim ibn Imran says:

    SubhanAllah. Like I said before, sad and shocking…

  35. Also did folks notice how when the woman said that Obama was Arab, McCain’s response was, “no, he is a decent man” (approx) as if being an Arab was exclusive and separate from being decent.

    finally, the mainstream media gives a nod to the hypocrisy of using the term Muslim/Arab as a slur.
    see: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/campbell.brown.obama/index.html

  36. Hidaya says:

    I am glad to see some intelligent people pver @ cnn..

  37. Shaam says:

    Alhumdulillah… It is indeed wonderful that non-biased articles still runs in mainstream media! May God bless Miss Campbell Brown. You go girl for being such an intellingent woman that you are :-)

  38. bismillah. at first i thought this was a new/follow-up story, but it looks like the Tribune just changed the headline.

  39. Kirarira says:

    She is the hero of Muslim youth in the world(ALLAH WILL PROTECT ME).What else would you expectt a believe to say.Let us keep peace as our good religion tell us and do all the good we are expcted to do and we will always be proected by Allah.
    Coninue the good work and we will pray for your stregeth,
    Issa
    Uganda-africa

  40. bismillah. mashaAllah, there are 266 “Diggs” for this article as i type.

    signing up for Digg was easy, alhamdolillah. just click this link, and follow a few quick instructions to register for free.

    then you can Digg other MM articles with a simple click. and at the Digg website you can find some interesting articles you might never have found otherwise (which is the huge dawah incentive to Digg MM articles — what i just said is being said right now by a ton of people who found an MM article only because of how often it was “Dugg”)

    here are two of note:

    John Cleese on Sarah Palin

    Buckley Bows Out of National Review

    both Digg-posted articles are fantastic in their own right: after seeing the Cleese spot, i may forever refer to Palin as “Madame Parrot.” and Buckley is none other than Christopher Buckley whose father (William) was the Abu Jahl of the Republican party for decade after decade.

    nope, no links for the articles i mentioned. Digg this MM article, join Digg if you haven’t already, and then you will find the same articles as easily as i did.

  41. bismillah. (sheepish smile) i had the wrong wikipedia article for William Buckley above: it should be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley,_Jr.

    Amad or someone else, please feel free to edit that link in the comment i just made, or leave both. for surely every word was already present in a book that cannot be altered. subhanAllah. :)

  42. Alexandra says:

    I daresay she’s not just the hero of Muslim youth, but of anyone with faith. I’m a Christian, but I am struck as much by her courage as I am by her attacker’s brutality. May the God of Abraham heal her, and heal us all from the divisions and hate in our society.

  43. AsimG says:

    I hope that if I was tested by Allah in such a violent matter like this I would also be able to respond like this sister

  44. […] Muslim woman was brutally attacked in the women’s bathroom of an Illinois college. MuslimMatters, has […]

  45. aH says:

    http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Elmhurst_Student_Faked_Attack.html

    SubhanAllah. May Allah (SWT) help her family in the undoubtedly tough scenario.

    abc 7 chicago has a video report here:
    http://abclocal.go.com/wls/video

  46. Yasir Qadhi says:

    Subhan Allah…

    Very sad indeed if the above story is true. I hope we all learn a lesson (yes, myself as well…) and be more careful of such reports in the future.

    If this is true, does she realize the repercussions of this incident??!

    Allahumma sallim…

  47. Amad says:

    aH, if indeed the attack was faked (I don’t put it past law enforecement either to make this crime “go away”), then indeed it is very unfortunate. The battle against islamophobia or any type of racism only gets harder after people do stupid things to get attention. And it starts casting doubt on the many other legit cases happening on a regular basis (like the masjid vandalisms).

  48. Hidaya says:

    I pray that faking story is not true, InshaAllah

  49. aH says:

    Amad: No doubt we can’t totally eliminate the possibility that they just wanted the story to go away.

    Still, given the multitude of Chicago news sites carrying the story it is very sad and unfortunate. Not only will this get people to think twice before reacting if another “real” incident occurred but its just embarrassing to Muslims in general. The college apparently had a school wide show of support for the student prior to these revelations and now it makes students, faculty and anyone else involved foolish.
    Not the kind of publicity Muslims need at a time when many in America don’t hold us in high regard.

  50. innalhamdolillah. i for one have only two more words regarding the latest newspaper posts: “fasabrun jameelan.”

    as for what follows, subhanAllah. when i consider the article itself and the comments, including my own, i am reminded again of Iesa‘s article.

    one of our problems is that no one wants to be silent when it seems so clear that a crime has been done or a hero discovered — and i am talking about our reactions when the story first broke that a Muslimah had been assaulted. and as for our reactions now, shouldn’t we always be circumspect when a person’s character and veracity is assailed without clear proofs?

    o you people of dhikr, please look to the sunnah, the history of the rightly-guided caliphs, and the admonitions of the righteous reformers of the ummah. and remind us of what we should know.

    remind us of how Muslims individually and collectively should react to fitnah, to news that a crime has been committed, and to suspicions/allegations raised against someone who had been held up herself as a victim only days before.

    i believe most of our answers will be found by first considering the trusted sources. because in many ways all that has really changed in all these 1429 years are the details of each fitnah, and the technologies available for dealing with (or spreading) them. otherwise, you can change the names and even the systems of government. but people still react to fitnahs in the same old ways.

  51. Jazzak Allaahu Khayr Shaykh Yasir for your comments.

    I really pray and beg that all the beautiful brothers and sisters who are leading the anti-Islamophobia charge including those here at Muslim Matters will stop and reflect deeply on recent events and really take lessons from what has gone on. The harm, indeed, is profound. I, as a devout Muslim, now know that when I hear such reports my first instinct will be one of doubt. What do we expect from others? And yet, now on two separate occasions we spread information that turns out to be most likely false, and browbeat people for not spreading it along with us.

    If Muslims do not have a reputation as being truthful, as being people of honesty and sincerity, then we have lost something much much more valuable than even our physical safety as a community…we have lost the ability to effectively communicate this message to humanity.

    There will always be troubled members of our community (like any other community) in troubled situations who will say things which are untrue for whatever reason, because they feel trapped by whatever situation they are in…it is up to the leadership of our communities and those who wish to be activists to make sure that any reports they spread are completely credible and never to say more than what we know to be true.

    Allaah Knows Best.

  52. ExEx Blogger says:

    If the sister was ‘fake’ that’s her fault. But what’s fake is when people jump to spread terror and fear over the blogosphere and “victimizing” themselves before the confirmation of the news or perhaps to bash those that refuse to call it a hate crime. Now can we call this a self hate crime? pathetic.

  53. Abu Umar says:

    There is a lesson to be learned from all of this (actually several). First, we need to carefully investigate such stories before making a big scene before the media and the public. I’m sure we all know the fable of the boy who cried wolf, and we must not sacrifice our credibility on sensational stories that only blow up in our faces. Second, we need to abandon these mentality of victimhood, as it is not the methodology of our beloved Prophet (s.a.w), rather it is the methodology of the ADL and the Jewish lobby who see an anti-Semite under every rock. As Muslims we should project pride, strength, and confidence, and not always being on the look out for a story that will allow us to portray ourselves as poor, weak, victims. No one respects that attitude.

  54. Siraaj says:

    Salaam alaykum,

    Has anyone read anything stating that the sister agrees or admits that she falsely filed a report? If not, then I would advise everyone to be patient and wait until the full story is out. She is innocent until proven guilty, not the reverse simply because one police investigation contradicts her account.

    If anyone has such a report which contains her testimony admitting that she falsely filed that report, I would like to see it. Otherwise, my naseeha to all is what is already being talked about – patience before going off on tangents in either direction.

    Siraaj

  55. Amad says:

    We make no apology for being as loud and as emphatic as possible when we hear reports of possible hate-crimes. Please note that the story was reported in the Chicago Tribute, a reputed newspaper, and even Elmhurst’s College’s President was quoted in the story.

    As Br. Ahmad wrote in an email,

    I think once something is reported in newspapers, we can/should write about it… there’s no way for us to expect someone would (if she did) fake a story… i don’t feel we should do anything differently were another such report to surface (… i feel it would not be wise at all to wait for the police to agree… or wait for a judge to agree, etc)… once its in the news, we can write about it, in my opinion, wa Allahu a’lam

    And Sr. Olivia (Br. Siraaj’s wife) mentioned

    Firstly, the principle is innocent until proven guilty and we need some hard facts before we make a conclusion. Her being arrested does not mean she is guilty. It means she is assumed to be guilty but a court hearing will need to be held. I find it very odd that the police interviewed staff and other students at the college about an incident that was not eye-witnessed by anyone. It is hard to believe hard facts were obtained from them. As far as I’m concerned, it is her word against theirs at this point. Another important point–was she hospitalized? If so, what do her medical records indicate? What is the full-story of the girl who found her and who is she? The evidence (interviews of students and staff) they are basing the accusation of false reporting on is very vague in the article.

    We’ll need to wait and see how it pans out. Remember the story of the ifk in surah an Noor. We should give our Muslim sister the benefit of the doubt and beware of spreading anything against that we don’t know to be true.

    Abu Umar, no one respects the quiet sheepish attitude either. And Muslims are indeed victims of Islamophobia all over the world, and your cavalier attitude is not going to help any of the past victims or the future victims of this growing hatred. You are mixing unrelated issues, one of Muslim pride, and another of Muslim’s right to stand up for the victims and for injustice. In fact, it is from our deen to expose oppression, and to stand up for the oppressed–> highlighting it is one way to do that, educating people to prevent future oppression is another. In any case, akhi, I don’t wish to argue with you because I know, based on the history of your comments, what your angle is. We will just have to agree to disagree on many issues, including this one.

    ExEx, can you tell us what sort of confirmation do you require before you take from a newspaper reported story? And if indeed the story was true, wouldn’t it be right to call it a hate-crime and those who deny it as being wrong? What do you find so pathetic? I am a bit confused by your comment. I mean, even if this story does turn out to be a hoax, in the absence of this ultimate information, I don’t see us doing anything different from what we did. And it is not like the first time that real stories of victims may be marred by one or two hoaxes, it happens all the time, in fact this site collects various stories. But, let’s not lose sight of the fact that in the big picture, hundreds of other hate-crimes against Muslims all over the world are REAL, like the 54 cases of Assault, out of which 24 were aggravated assaults, as reported in 2006 FBI stats.

  56. Amad, So if the Media reports something negative about Muslims we should spread that too, right? I mean, it’s in the media, why would we have any reason to doubt it? Oh it only works one way, huh? Muslims are not a big self-interest group, Muslims are people that have to stand for principles. By spreading reports which turn out to be false we have done actual harm to the interest of the Muslim community. Can’t we admit that and apologize and try to learn a lesson? You say we should spread the report since it was in the newspaper and the College President was quoted. Ok, so now the media has reported, the police after an investigation have stated, and the College has released an official statement that there was no attack. Shouldn’t we spread that as well? Allaah (swt) orders us to speak out for truth and justice not only when it is what we perceive as for ourselves or against others, but to stand for justice even against our ownselves. If we don’t live up to these principles, we as a community are not worthy of respect. MM spread the reports about the Dayton incident based on a third hand report from a blogger, and it it is still unclear what the actual source of that blogger’s information was (she said she had friends who “knew people” who went to the mosque). and based upon that acted in ways contrary to what the actual leadership of the mosque involved was advising.

    Even if you couldn’t have done anything different based on the information you had, which is possible…I’m just asking you to reflect on it…why can’t we apologize now?

    Siraaj,

    ABC7 News is reporting that the sister admitted to the police during questioning that she made up the story of being attacked. We don’t know for sure how they know this, but it is very unlikely she would be charged with a crime of false report if there was any doubt about it.

    Allaah knows best.

  57. ExEx Blogger says:

    You said,
    ExEx, can you tell us what sort of confirmation do you require before you take from a newspaper reported story?

    What do I mean by pathetic? It’s pathetic how you tell me to “believe” in the trumped up original story when you dare suggest that maybe this is a “plot” to cover her story? Why is it that you CHOOSE to believe the original story and cry wolf or cry holocaust and ask all readers to immediately condemn this “hate crime” but yet now you want to cast doubt on this new revelation? Dressing up a turd is already bad enough. However to quietly shrug it off and say law enforcement agencies are perhaps covering it up is NOTHING but a ploy to not admit that MM screwed up in its report like it did in the Lal Mosque and gassing of the “kids”.

    “Innocent until proven guilty.” What a statement. It disgusts me so much that this blog dares to suggest that the sister is innocent of faking it until proven guilty??? What rubbish is this! Why not apply this rule to the original story?! The assumed assailant is considered INNOCENT until proven GUILTY. NO!!!!!! But this blog MUST and YET INSISTS and ASSERTS that this was a hate crime? But when we want to victimize ourself and find yourself unable to, we turn this whole thing around and say this thing was to silence the hate crimes in America. HAHA!!! SAD indeed.

    Why would the police want to cover the story up?! Unless if the assumed “if it was a hate crime” assailant was a cop himself…what do they gain to cover this hate crime up by shutting up the sister and accusing her of “cooking this story up”? Don’t give a “conspiracy laced theory” that some people control the media and want to the shut the Muslims. No worries. We have MuslimMatters.

    Also…What is the point to say “if” it was a hate crime….” No ifs. A hate crime is a hate crime. There’s NO point to come back and say IF it was a hate crime would we have condemned it? Apparently this story is still not “confirmed”. Amad we are not self hating Muslims that like to deny “hate crimes” committed against us. Opposition to this post is NOT because how people wish to not call it a hate crime. But people disagree on the MM reports and how it assumes really bad things about Muslims in this country or else where. This whole thing as “Muslims” being attacked in USA is rubbish! How many people have TRULY been attacked after September 11th? Compare that to the Nazification of Germany where Jewish stores were burned and looted. Please. We do NOT need to demoralize and scare Muslims.

    How funny is that we shrug off a few hoaxes. It’s just a coincidence that MM is not “sorry for being loud” and report 3 stories under the same methodology of condemnation before confirmation.

  58. Amad says:

    Abu Noor, inshallah we should have an official MM statement later tonight, that may address some of the issues you (in a respectful manner as always) have raised.

    As for any other accusations, let the unjust ones among them be a source of reward for whoever it is directed to. May Allah forgive us all for our shortcomings.

  59. Ameen to your du’a Amad and Jazzak Allaahu Khayr for your response. I appreciate your reading of my comments in the correct spirit…I certainly have no anger or bad feeling towards anyone for any of these incidents…but the developments regarding the Elmhurst incident just left me with a deep sadness that may have come out in my post in other ways.

    I mean our sister is facing possible jail time. I can’t even imagine what kind of situation she must be in to make her feel she should do something like this. Can you imagine the emotional rollercoaster of her family and friends and herself in knowing she put them through this? And now she will forever be known for this….

    Seeing the pictures of all the Elmhurst students, non-Muslims, people of different ethnicities who rallied to support her showing the best of what is truly good about the United States and humanity, people literally shedding tears for her and now they have been told she was lying? What must be going through their minds? What will all us, myself included, think the next time we hear an allegation, and what injustice might befall true victims because now they will all be treated as hoaxers and exaggerators?

    SubhanAllaah….But Alhamdulillaah everything that happens is part of the plan of Allaah (swt) and indeed there is much good that can come out of a situation like this. We can seriously reflect on how to better respond to such realities as anti-Muslim bigotry….not respond less just respond better. Even someone at the school was quoted as saying that the students who came out and showed their support for the sister did the right thing and that it can be viewed as a positive.

    So again Jazzak Allaahu Khayr Amad and I look forward to continued great work from you and from Muslim Matters in the future.

    -Edited to add paragraph breaks for easier reading for a wonderful comment :) -Editor

  60. bismillah. inshaAllah, i hope the MM statement is fully reviewed by people of knowledge. with so many emotional comments posted in this and similar threads, we need a statement that will be strong — and the one who is strong is in control of his emotions, especially his anger. he is not controlled by them, and especially not by his anger.

    alhamdolillah, i cannot think of a time when a scholar amongst us posted a comment that lacked self-control. that fact is part of what i love most about MM — benefiting from the company of scholars.

    so let us seek refuge with Allah, and appeal to the scholars amongst us to let us benefit from what Allah has bestowed upon them.

  61. Abu Umar says:

    Abu Umar, no one respects the quiet sheepish attitude either.

    And when have I ever advocated such? Indeed in my last post I distinctly said “[a]s Muslims we should project pride, strength, and confidence,” so I have no idea where you are getting ideas about sheepish attitudes.

    And Muslims are indeed victims of Islamophobia all over the world, and your cavalier attitude is not going to help any of the past victims or the future victims of this growing hatred.

    Again, you are trying to ascribe things to my argument that aren’t there. I have not denied Islamophobia and know very well how monstrous of a problem it is. All I advocated was confirming stories to protect our credibility and not falling into an attitude of victimhood. I hardly see anything cavalier, indeed controversial, about such suggestions.

    You are mixing unrelated issues, one of Muslim pride, and another of Muslim’s right to stand up for the victims and for injustice. In fact, it is from our deen to expose oppression, and to stand up for the oppressed–> highlighting it is one way to do that, educating people to prevent future oppression is another.

    And how does what I have said discourage people from standing up for justice and speaking against oppression? Please go back and carefully read my post before jumping to conclusion like this and doing injustice to my argument.

    In any case, akhi, I don’t wish to argue with you because I know, based on the history of your comments, what your angle is. We will just have to agree to disagree on many issues, including this one.

    And what is my “angle”? I only speak the truth as I know it. Anything good I have said is from Allah and anything wrong I have said is only from my own flawed self. I am quite open about what I think and have no hidden motives. What you see is what you get, so I really resent these insinuations.

  62. ExEx Blogger says:

    And how does what I have said discourage people from standing up for justice and speaking against oppression? Please go back and carefully read my post before jumping to conclusion like this and doing injustice to my argument.

    Well said. Abu Umar. May Allah reward you. But there is good news because Amad made a nice dua which you can repeat it to him:

    As for any other accusations, let the unjust ones among them be a source of reward for whoever it is directed to. May Allah forgive us all for our shortcomings.

  63. syed says:

    she has single handedly set muslims in this country back at least twenty to thirty years. let us not grant her any type of exception or added privilege just because she is an adherent to the Islamic faith–her actions are inexcusable and absolutely reprehensible and no apologies should be made on her behalf, except under the possible conditions of mental illness or defect.

    she is lucky that the pizza i just ate is clogging my brain.

  64. Ismail says:

    There once was a girl named Sofia
    who got donked in the head with a gun.
    She went ahead and called the Policia
    Now Muslims in America are done.

  65. bismillah. here is another reason for sabr. only Allah Knew that the first story would break — that she had been attacked. only Allah Knew that the second story would break — that she has been accused. and now that she has been accused, only Allah Knows what story we will read next.

    will those who heap accusation and less-savory comments at her feet be vindicated if the accusations against her are proven true? who will praise them? will they eat crow as loudly as they now feed on the flesh of her back if she is the one proven true?

    in either case can we not pause from penning rhymes for fear of the Day of Judgment?

    fasubrun jameelan. indeed patience is the beautiful response to much that has been written here in recent days.

  66. Cowboy says:

    This situation is a sad one any way you look at it. I agree with Abu Noor’s sentiments, and wonder if the hadith, “I love Fatima, wallahi if Fatima stole I would cut her hand off” applies, i.e., if “our sweet sister from Elmhurst” has lied and made fools out of so many, will we condemn and disparage her, or stay silent, when we made so much noise and spread so much news on a story that might very well prove to be a lie.

    Disappointing, just 3 weeks after the Dayton Masjid case where again many blogs spread that hateful non-Muslim bigots were guilty of attacking Muslims in tarawih.. it wound up being Muslim kids planting a stink bomb (or whatever the substance was)…

    If MM is going to spread the stories (which is great / needed so these atrocities can be reported), they need to be just as aggressive in spreading the facts later… just as loud, just as forceful. As an American Muslim, I would personally be offended with anything less.

  67. Amad says:

    Cowboy, there has been no conclusive evidence or conclusion to the gassing story yet, as far as I know. Was there another report that I missed blaming some kid?

    By the way, we will have an official MM statement/post inshalah soon on the subject.

  68. anon says:

    I can’t believe I missed all these comments. What a turn of events
    I can’t even fathom why someone would resort to making up an entire incident like this. And people fabricate assaults/crimes against themselves all the time which is the really bizarre thing. Hoaxes almost always get found out in one way or another. One of the articles said that this is punishable with up to 3 years in prison if found guilty, not to mention a permanent blot on her record which will look really great when she tries to get a job. Plus, no matter the outcome I can’t imagine her choosing to stay at that college or the college allowing her to for that matter, so she’s screwed in that department as well.
    Truly, sheer stupidity plus and an utter disregard for the possible ramifications and backlash this will have for the other 30 muslims who go to that school.

    About the other alleged incident, they weren’t really blaming a kid per say. They just said that the can of pepperspray was found inside the masjid in another room and they were questioning a 10 year boy who was a member of the masjid. But they wouldn’t say if he was the doer or give any other info into their thoughts on the matter. So yes, I would agree that it hasn’t been concluded. Although more likely than not parts of this story will also turn out to be false.

  69. Amad says:

    You know it is amazing that many, many non-Muslim commentators on DailyKos were more articulate and more rational about this case than many of us. When a writer tried to use this story to make a few points against Muslims, she/he got hammered by the other commentators. The diary did not receive a single recommendation. There is much we can learn from this. I have highlighted a few comments from this story:

    Thought the same thing (2+ / 0-)

    when I read she wasn’t hurt, but hardly a Muslim story as such. A young Jewish student was caught painting a swastika on her dorm door, but again not a Jewish story. Both just disturbed young women acting out of who knows what. Does this mean there is no anti-Muslim or anti-semitic sentiment around? I think not.

    by Anorish on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 03:17:40 PM PDT

    I’m curious (7+ / 0-)

    Do you think the tone of the diary title “Phony Muslim Complaints Exposed” could be perceived as bigoted because it could be understood as implying that anytime a Muslim complains about a hate crime, it’s phony?

    That this instance was a false allegation does not change the inflammatory nature of the title.

    What if a woman claimed she was sexually assaulted, and it turned out she wasn’t? Would you headline
    “Phony Women Complaints Exposed” if the country was already prone to misogyny and trivializing rape?

    Would you write a more nuanced title if this was a member of group you had sympathy for?

    You feel victimized because this specific story was false – you caught that it was false and many didn’t believe you. You may have been correct about the story, but I’m guessing other Kossaks were irritated about the implied conclusion you draw from the false story.

    I can’t help wondering that this false story proves to you that Muslims should stop whining about being treated badly because they’re not. If that was not your conclusion, please clarify it because the diary is written poorly. If that is your conclusion, I vigourously disagree and question your motivation and character.

    McCain insisted [no union member] would [pick lettuce for $50/hour] for a complete season. “You can’t do it, my friends.”

    by grrr on Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 03:47:50 PM PDT

    Others:

    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/10/18/164748/07/?pid=0#c5
    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/10/18/164748/07/?pid=47#c50
    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/10/18/164748/07/?pid=0#c7
    http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/10/18/164748/07/?pid=0#c9

  70. […] way to make those issues socially relevant to the internet community at large. Just as an example, the story about the sister attacked in Elmhurst was the first MuslimMatters article to get more than 10 […]

  71. Siraaj says:

    Sister pleads not guilty:
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-muslim-student-18-nov18,0,395755.story

    Here’s what I’m talking about – nowhere did the police say that the sister confessed, and everyone did exactly what they condemned – they jumped on another bandwagon without evidence.

    Siraaj

  72. Siraaj,

    I’m not sure what articles you’re reading but are you still trying to argue that the attack happened?

    I pray for nothing but khayr for the sister and her family and I reject those who attacked her with harshness without knowing what was going on in her life, but it is obvious at this point that she is not still claiming that the attack occurred. Her attorney told the press that she was “in treatment.”

    As an attorney, I know that she will be advised not to make public comment, but if her and her family’s and her attorney’s position is that the attack actually did occur then it would be absurd not to make a statement saying so.

    Allaah knows best.

  73. Also Siraaj,

    The police concluded that there was no attack and arrested our sister. Her own attorney is complimenting them and saying they did an excellent job in handling the case. Are you still saying that somehow there is a question of whether the attack occurred?

  74. Siraaj says:

    Siraaj,

    ABC7 News is reporting that the sister admitted to the police during questioning that she made up the story of being attacked. We don’t know for sure how they know this, but it is very unlikely she would be charged with a crime of false report if there was any doubt about it.

    Allaah knows best.

    Abu Noor, that was a statement you made earlier in the comments – my point this whole time has been that there are allegations against her, and we haven’t yet heard from her, and we ought not to act as though the police charging her with a crime automatically meant she was guilty – I didn’t read anywhere that she had confessed to anything, there’s been no verification (to my knowledge) of this, and now she’s pleading not guilty? Not guilty of what – lying to the police I would imagine, and if she told the truth, then the potential remains that she was assaulted.

    Treated for what? Community backlash, people not believing her? I don’t know – what I do know is that until all the facts are out, no one should be automatically assuming she’s guilty, or anything of that nature. My point is, wait until everything comes out, let her have her day in court, let’s see what comes out of it, then let’s pass whatever final judgements we have on this. Right now, after the police said what they said, everyone, muslim and nonmuslim, was quick to either condemn or simply agree that she was wrong, or that she lied – I’m not saying the police are lying, I’m simply saying, wait it out.

    Siraaj

  75. As salaamu ‘alaykum Siraaj,

    As you probably but may not know, pleading “Not Guilty” at the Arraignment is routine or as the news report said “perfunctory.” At arraignment you plead not guilty regardless of whether you confessed or not, regardless of whether there is a videotape proving you are guilty or not, etc.

    Many people do plead guilty in our criminal justice system, but none of them do it at the arraignment. The attorney will not even ask the client what to plead but will tell him or her “At this court date you plead not Guilty.”

    I’m not sure if the public ever needs to really understand all the facts behind what happened with the sister and why she claimed to have been attacked but for those who do think it’s necessary I agree that should be done once all the facts are out. However, it was announced to the public that there was a “Muslim student attacked, Held at Gun Point” based on her being a Muslim. If the sister has not acknowledged that it didn’t happen then the attacker is still out there and the police have decided to let him get away. The school has decided to expel her for making the allegation. If that is the assumption you are going on, you think we should be sitting still and doing nothing about it? You think her lawyer would be complimenting the police for the way they handled the investigation? You think the defense would be allowing media reports to surface claiming she confessed and not simply say, those are all lies, the attack happened, there is still a perpetrator on the loose?

    I don’t know what she’s being treated for either but that’s because her attorney deliberately did not say. As Muslims, we don’t bet, but there is no chance that there will ever be a trial in this case (assuming that’s what you mean by her ‘day in court’). I hope for the sake of the sister and I’m sure this is what her attorney is trying to have happen, is that he will try to resolve the case in some way where the sister will not have to go to jail and where the case will not get any further media attention, and we will know as little as possible about what really happened. Now, that may not be completely possible because of how much media attention the case got initially.

    I appreciate you sticking up for our sister and for Islamic principles but after she made a public statement that she was attacked it is her responsibility to be clear about whether she is still standing by that or not. While due to the pending trial, she is not going to speak directly to it, everything that she, the police, the school, and her attorney have done since then seems to me meant to indicate that there was no attack.
    There is no need to await for a trial on the disorderly conduct charge to simply affirm that. And even if you choose to be safe and not draw any conclusions in your own mind, alhamdulillaah, but I think you are wrong to criticize others for concluding that there was no attack in light of the facts as we know them.

    That is my only point.

  76. Oh, by the way, I notice I said “our” criminal justice system…this was done out of hearing it termed that way so often. I, personally do not think of the U.S. criminal justice system as “my” or “our” system but that is, so to speak, a horse of a different color.

  77. Siraaj says:

    Walaykum as salaam Abu Noor,

    Let me preface my response by saying that I’m by no means a conspiracy theorist, or a partisan who is simply taking this sister’s side because she’s Muslim and will blindly defend her regardless of facts on the ground.

    You’ve made some valid arguments, and I appreciate the points you’ve made – however, those points are easier to make in hindsight as more information becomes available – the information you’ve presented was surely not available at the time the conclusion by yourself and others were drawn – those conclusions were drawn immediately after the report without the information at hand you’ve presented now – I’d be more interested in what caused everyone to initially come to the conclusion that they did (as you did, for example, in the quote I posted).

    Therein lies my point – waiting for it all to come out. It may be that as more information comes out, we’ll find she did lie, and I’m very open to that possibility. However, I’m still very open to the possibility of the opposite being the case as well.

    As for some of the points you raised:

    1. “…then the attacker is still out there and the police have decided to let him get away.” Very possibly – I have had family in the police force, and while there are many good guys out there, there’s also a lot of crooked officers, particularly in the suburbs (surprise surprise, it’s not just cook county). I’m sure you’re keeping up more with Patrick Fitzgerald’s current investigation into corruption with Chicago officers than I am. So no, I don’t think because the cops said so, it must be true.

    2. “The school has decided to expel her for making the allegation.” Yes, she withdrew, actually, after officials told her she would be expelled for the allegations. This doesn’t prove she lied, this proves that the school was sufficiently convinced by the investigation of the police – it doesn’t prove that the investigation came to the proper conclusion.

    3. “If that is the assumption you are going on, you think we should be sitting still and doing nothing about it?” As I’ve said previously, I’m open to her being guilty, and I simply don’t find enough compelling evidence (presented in the media) to personally indict this sister, so, being openminded about either possibility, I want to know who’s in the right, and who’s in the wrong before I decide how to act.

    4. “You think her lawyer would be complimenting the police for the way they handled the investigation?” Maybe he believes they followed the correct procedures for conducting such an investigation, were cooperative in dealing with him, the girl, and their family, but it’s altogether possible is the wrong conclusion and there is a mistake? I really don’t know, you’d have to ask him ;) Does this prove she lied? Probably not.

    Again, that’s why I feel many of you are mistaken and just plain wrong in indicting her. From what I can see, conclusions were made well in advance of available information (which is being used now), and the available information being provided to prove she lied is essentially reactions by various people to the investigation.

    What would do it for me? A confirmation of a confession would be one means – thus far, I have not seen anything, not a quoted statement from any source stating she confessed. I have seen some Muslim blogs saying this, but no official quotes from Elmhurst Police. Another thing that would do it for me would be to know what it was in the interviews that Elmhurst Police conducted with staff and students that helped them conclude the whole thing was a hoax – I’ve only read the quoted statement that they charged her based on conclusions based on interviews, not based on confessions.

    Strangely enough, the vast majority of media outlets who cover this story and rehash the details of its history never mention confessions, they mention police investigations that concluded she lied based on interviews (at least, from the sources I’ve read).

    Siraaj

  78. Salaam Siraaj,

    I’m not going to belabor this (too late, you say?) because I’d really rather be arguing on the side of the sister and the benefit of our discussion is not entirely clear. But since you did specifically wonder why people reached the conclusion they did so early I’ll tell you at least why I did. Though, before I do, I again want to separate myself from those that attacked the sister or, as you said seek to ‘indict’ her (but of course no one on the comments thread indicted here, that was done by others in the legal system).

    At the risk of repeating the main point of my last comment, my interest in the topic at this point is that it should be clear whether the sister is acknowledging there was no attack or still maintaining there was one. The school, the police, the prosecutors are all clear that there was no attack. This was definitely based on their investigation, but according to some sources, was based on her confession as well. The reason we don’t know 100 percent for sure whether the sister is still claiming there was an attack is because she and her attorney are choosing not to be explicit about it. And it seems for the most part that the police and school are trying to be respectful to her by not openly saying that she lied and you are taking their respect as a reason to accuse them of botching the investigation or falsely accusing her which I must say I think is a little unfair to them.

    But back to the original point of this post (which was going to be short, remember?). The reason I was almost completely certain that the sister did confess and even more certain that the investigation showed the attack story was completely incredible is that the police and school moved so quickly to conclude that.

    If you’ll remember this was a big story at the time in the media and no doubt was an even bigger event for the campus community. They were increasing security, vigils were being held, etc. In that context, if the school and police were just a little unsure of her story or didn’t know what to think, they would have continued to act as if the attack happened as they sought more information. IN fact, even if they were basically sure the attack didn’t happen but not 100 percent the police would most likely not have arrested her. (In fact, one of the reasons I believe the confession story, although it was apparently an anonymous tip to one media outlet is that I can’t believe the police would have arrested her without a confession in a situation like this.)

    So, that’s why I was so sure so quickly that there was not an attack. However, certainly I don’t put anything past the police and while I don’t see why the school shouldn’t be trusted, I don’t claim the school is infallible either. However, for the authorities to come out and say that she lied and for her or her attorney not even to release a statement saying that she maintains the attack occurred basically proves that the sister is admitting that the attack did not occur.

    Allaah knows best.

  79. Siraaj says:

    The reason we don’t know 100 percent for sure whether the sister is still claiming there was an attack is because she and her attorney are choosing not to be explicit about it. And it seems for the most part that the police and school are trying to be respectful to her by not openly saying that she lied and you are taking their respect as a reason to accuse them of botching the investigation or falsely accusing her which I must say I think is a little unfair to them.

    Salaam alaykum,

    Correct me if I’m wrong here, but isn’t charging her with making a false charge and openly disclosing this to the public just that – saying she lied? If it isn’t, then what is it?

    But back to the original point of this post (which was going to be short, remember?). The reason I was almost completely certain that the sister did confess and even more certain that the investigation showed the attack story was completely incredible is that the police and school moved so quickly to conclude that.

    So quick reactions from police and university = proof of guilt? You’ve said this twice now in one way or another, I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

    So, that’s why I was so sure so quickly that there was not an attack. However, certainly I don’t put anything past the police and while I don’t see why the school shouldn’t be trusted, I don’t claim the school is infallible either. However, for the authorities to come out and say that she lied and for her or her attorney not even to release a statement saying that she maintains the attack occurred basically proves that the sister is admitting that the attack did not occur.

    On the flip side, if the attack did occur, and then she was accused of lying on top of it, and had to deal with all the media about her, and her young age, maybe she didn’t handle it too well, or maybe her family is simply saying we want to keep quiet about this because we don’t want to draw attention to ourselves, our names are already being dragged in the mud (desi culture).

    Yes, this is all drawn from right out of my imagination, but these are also credible possibilities – if we have nothing concrete, no matter how likely a scenario you have, until the facts come out unequivocally (and not anonymously), it remains speculation, and so I still maintain, let’s not indict her (metaphorically speaking, not literally).

    Assume the best until you can prove the worst :)

    Siraaj

  80. anon says:

    LOL, siraaj you’re really kind of full of it at this point. Sorry. You and 100 other commenters had no problem with the police investigation when it first began (and same with the Dayton incident) which you are now hypothesizing might be corrrupt and intentionallly hiding information (Apparently it’s only corrupt when it’s not on the side of the muslims, when it benefits the muslims than it’s all good) and went on ad nauseum about the evil doers who attacked the woman. You had no proof, no suspects and no confession. You did not wait for a trial, you did not wait for evidence. The entire thing was based on speculation. Yet you’re now suddenly getting all sanctimonious about “innocent until proven guilty” and all this other nonsense of waiting for the evidence and trial before indicting the woman and the police might be lying and blah blah blah when it’s fairly obvious she’s a liar and completely full of it. It’s pretty laughable and quite pathetic.

    “So quick reactions from police and university = proof of guilt? You’ve said this twice now in one way or another, I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one.”

    You and everyone else certainly seemed to think so when all this and the Dayton issue first came out. Kind of weird that you have suddenly had a change of heart.

    “Assume the best until you can prove the worst”

    The smiley after it was particularly appropriate, Again, nice to see you’ve had such a charitable change of heart

  81. Siraaj says:

    Hi there Anon,

    LOL, siraaj you’re really kind of full of it at this point. Sorry. You and 100 other commenters had no problem with the police investigation when it first began (and same with the Dayton incident) which you are now hypothesizing might be corrrupt and intentionallly hiding information (Apparently it’s only corrupt when it’s not on the side of the muslims, when it benefits the muslims than it’s all good) and went on ad nauseum about the evil doers who attacked the woman. You had no proof, no suspects and no confession. You did not wait for a trial, you did not wait for evidence. The entire thing was based on speculation. Yet you’re now suddenly getting all sanctimonious about “innocent until proven guilty” and all this other nonsense of waiting for the evidence and trial before indicting the woman and the police might be lying and blah blah blah when it’s fairly obvious she’s a liar and completely full of it. It’s pretty laughable and quite pathetic.

    Actually, my first comment on this thread was to counsel muslims to patience rather than attacking sister Safia. In no place do you find me “condemning” anything.

    Secondly, it is the accused, not the accuser, that is innocent until proven guilty. Read my posts above – I have said very clearly that I will readily accept her guilt if the proof of such guilt is made public – what’s wrong with wanting to know how everyone came to their conclusions? Thus far, none of that has been shared.

    Finally, I am not accusing the Elmhurst police of anything – my point in throwing those examples out is that there are a number of reasons for why this case could have been dismissed, that is one. Another is incompetence, and I mentioned that in a later post.

    I’m open to her being guilty, but I think the door has been shut too quickly on her.

    Siraaj

  82. Siraaj,

    I typed up a response to your points but then I realized that it would be wrong to do that and then say, but I don’t want to talk about it any more. So, I’ve deleted my points and I’ll just say I don’t think it’s productive to discuss it anymore. :)

    Salaam.

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