By Ibrahim Moiz for Muslim Matters

Previous Parts: Part 1 | Part 2

After the tumultuous 2023-24 school year, where American students protesting against the Israeli genocide at Gaza were vilified and repressed across the country, MuslimMatters interviewed chaplains Omer Bajwa of Yale University and Abdul-Muhaymin Priester of Grinnell College for their thoughts on these momentous events. In this third part of a five-part interview, the imams discuss the relationship of these events on interfaith relations, the impact that an institutionally approved genocide has left on non-Muslim communities, and the apocalyptic motivations behind much American support for Israel.

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zionists vs. palestine

Ibrahim Moiz: I think, politically but also societally or socially, the United States, probably at least [since] the 1990s, treats Palestine and Israel as maybe a communal issue where they’re not surprised if Arabs and Muslims speak in favor of Palestine…but it doesn’t stop them from generally favoring Israel and also saying that Jews care about Israel – it’s sort of a pseudo-balance of these two communities, even though in actual fact they’re favoring Israel.

I think even with the Palestinian Authority it’s a paper tiger, something to keep Arabs and Muslims quiet.

But what I’m getting at is, this time around, maybe because of social media, is that there are a lot of leftist groups or even Jewish groups and Christian groups that have been supporting Palestine. My impression is some of them are not anti-Israel per se but they oppose abuses, and some of them are [by contrast] questioning Israel’s overall foundation. So my question is, does the fact that you have so much more non-Muslim support coming, especially at major universities, does this sort of translate into any sort of cooperation between leaders, imams, and rabbis or imams and priests?

For Evangelicals, a Precursor to the Rapture

Abdul-Muhaymin Priester: I’m not sure if it has facilitated any type of cooperation. One thing I think a lot of people have not really taken into strong understanding and consideration is the whole situation of Zionists and the support that they get from people within American society primarily, is that most people in this country are evangelical Christians, who are in support of Zionists, who have this Christian background. For them, this is a step, this is a precursor for them witnessing the Rapture. For them, this is like a biblical prophecy being played out, and they’re doing everything they can to facilitate [matters] coming to a head.

A lot of people don’t really appreciate just how much the Rapture plays into evangelical Christian theology, it’s a very important keystone of their theology. Their entire life is delivered for the Rapture, which means the point in time when Christ is supposed to come back, alaihi-salatu wal-salam, and they’re supposed to have their own version of the Armageddon scenario that they are anxiously pushing to bring about. This was one of the reasons why Zionists were given the land of Filastin (by the Christians) in the first place, that [it] would facilitate the Rapture.

So that being said, I do not expect and have not expected, and I’m not sure if there is, I have not seen any evidence, seen anything that gives me any reasonable expectation to believe that Christians in a large number would do such a thing. Now a lot of the young people that you see that are engaging in these protests on these campuses, most of them don’t have religion, they don’t follow a faith tradition. So they’re not tied into any type of theological involvement that’s going to make them do this in that type of light. Even the Christians saying they stand with the Jews, it goes right back to the Rapture.

The Sense Is, “Interfaith Is Dead”

Omer Bajwa: Just on that note, Sidi [Abdul-Muhaymin], Biden is a very self-declared, practicing Catholic, but on this, he’s also a self-described Zionist – he’s literally said that publicly – and so you know where his sympathies lie. And the evangelicals are, like you said, one hundred percent, they’re by and large, all the data shows that every evangelical preacher across the country in the last seven months has been like, “We stand with Israel.” That’s to be expected.

Two quick thoughts, if I may: what I found is that a lot of people have said, and in fact I even kind of felt it early on – interfaith is a huge part of my job, I’ve done it for decades now, right, interfaith engagement, multifaith engagement, etcetera, however you want to define it, and you know, there’s high times and low times – but right now the sense was, after this, the sentiment was “Interfaith is dead”. Like how do you go back to a gathering with a Protestant, a Catholic, a Jewish rabbi, and a Muslim, and have an interfaith conversation – about what? What, we have a genocide taking place in front of our eyes…

Morally Defining Moment For Gen Z

(Omer Bajwa continues): The data shows that more and more young people, Gen Z, and then presumably Gen Alpha, which is next, are identifying with no religious community – they’re called the Nones…And we’re seeing this in front of our eyes on college campuses. But having said that, for this generation right now, a part of this generation, this issue has become the morally defining moment of their time. They’re twenty years old. Nothing in their twenty years up to this point, arguably, has been – BLM [Black Lives Matter] was huge, but now this almost eclipses BLM, because Zionism is then white supremacy at a national, nation-state, colonial state, settler colony, apartheid level. You’re seeing all the hypocrisy of the West, you’re seeing all the hypocrisy of the modern neoliberal order.

So for them, whether or not they have a religious or spiritual orientation, morally speaking or ethically speaking, they are like, “This is all on the line. Are you pro-genocide or anti-genocide?” That’s the framing of it.

And so, what I was going to say was people have said, “Oh, interfaith is dead.” You know, I even spoke at a rally about this and I said, “The pivot is not that interfaith is dead or not” – in fact when I look around the audience at so many of these encampments and protesters and rallies and marches is: there’s Jews for Ceasefire, right, there’s JVP – Jewish Voices for Peace – there are many, many Christians that are coming to these, progressive Christians and I think other types of Christians that are coming. They’re like, “We’re showing up, right? We’re here putting our body on the line, quite literally and figuratively, to stand in solidarity.” And that is interesting, that there is this movement or this solidarity alliance or allyship of different religious communities that have shown up.

You’re Here, But What Are You Saying From The Pulpit?

(Omer Bajwa continues): What I think is interesting though…I think that anecdotally I’ve seen a lot of people I know that are Christian clergy that have been showing up, they identify as Christian and are clergy members that show up. I haven’t had deep enough conversations to push them gently, being like, “You’re here and that is incredible, but what are you saying from the pulpit?” Right? And maybe that’s a thornier conversation, maybe their own congregational parish politics are such that they’re like, “Well, I can’t preach openly about this.”

But you know, they say people vote with their feet, right – these people show up, but maybe on the pulpit on Sunday, they can’t be like this – I mean, I think there’s a nuance that we have to acknowledge. And I do know, even my own Christian colleagues here that I work with in my community there, have preached about the last seven months and the moral-ethical crises and questions that are brought up, etcetera.

A Fracture Within The Jewish Community

(Omer Bajwa continues): Last thing I’ll say then is, clearly [the] Jewish community, from what I have been privy to and heard and seen, is that there’s (a) deep Jewish fracture on this. Hillels are notorious for being pro-Zionist, they send trips to Israel – and Hillels are the umbrella student Jewish life organizations on campuses. And there’s a vociferous debate taking place. Because you have people that – if the argument is Hillels are for all Jews, secular atheist Jews, and ultra-Orthodox Jews, and even the Jewish-identifying, “Come to Hillel, we’ll create a Jewish space for you” – that’s the theory, right? Well, they’re having super-intense dinner, family-type conversations, arguments, debates, right – on being like, “How can you believe and follow this religion and say that your theological moral compass is allowing you to be pro-genocide?”

And so internally there, it’s fascinating, it’s just incredibly intense. So many people are now just abandoning the Jewish life community or Hillels – particularly Jews for Ceasefire, JVP, progressive Jews – is that there’s a lot of pain there, right?

You know, you’ve seen the beautiful posters, “I’m here because of my Jewish identity, on the frontlines, protesting against that [genocide]”. So that’s really remarkable, we’re seeing that now. I want to give those kinds of layers to the interfaith conversation on campus.

[Next in Part IV: Israeli Propaganda Is Insidious]

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