Open Thread Sunday 31/5/09MuslimMatters.org

Open Thread Sunday 31/5/09

31. May, 2009 by Zainab (AnonyMouse) BlogNews 31 comments

I feel a great big, cynically smug “I knew it all along” coming on.

Honeymoon's over, people – Barack Obama is proving himself to be just as dangerous as Bush (if not worse because he can actually think for himself).

First it was focusing more heavily onÂ military activity in Afghanistan even as he publicly called for an end to the war in Iraq (which is just another lie).

Then it was his determination to get into Pakistan too. Remember the missile strikes that killed at least 20 people, back in the (earlier) days of his presidency?

Now, amongst many more other disturbing reports about the trends appearing in Obama's policies, this is perhaps one of the most worrisome:

The Cyber Security Act of 2009 gives the president the ability to “declare a cybersecurity emergency” and shut down or limit Internet traffic in any “critical” information network “in the interest of national security.” The bill does not define a critical information network or a cybersecurity emergency. That definition would be left to the president.

Click on the link for more on the Cyber Security Act.

What do Obama supporters have to say?

In other, still depressing news:

Terror Arrests: Snitch, Sting, and Controversy

To anyone who'sÂ been in a community where such sting operations have occurred, the pattern is disturbingly familiar.

“With considerable fanfare, a steady stream of terrorism busts has been announced by the FBI since Sept. 11, 2001. And in most cases, accusations soon followed that the stings were overblown operations that entrapped hapless ne'er-do-wells. Federal authorities say such arrests save lives.

But what happens to these cases after the media spotlight fades and the noise dies down? And are the snitches involved reliable?”

For those into business, the Toronto Star reports:

Standard & Poor's is launching an index of large Canadian stocks with criteria defined by Islamic law â€“ no companies with businesses in financial services, entertainment, alcohol, pork-related products or tobacco.

The index operator said yesterday the S&P/TSX 60 version, compliant with the Muslim code of law known as sharia, “will create new opportunities for Islamic investors to benchmark their Canadian investments, and for asset managers to create new investment products serving the Islamic community.”

About MuslimMatters

Muslimmatters.org began in 2007 as a collaboration between various Bloggers and Shuyukh in order to bring attention to issues faced by Muslims, especially in the West. We have focused on issues of Religion, Society, Ethics, Sex Education, Politics, Civil Rights, Family, as well as the random issues that pop up from now and then, all with some ranting and humor mixed in.

We challenge ourselves and our readers to engage in discourses that touch our lives as citizens of the West, while maintaining our individual Islamic identities: Ultimately to cooperate, but not to compromise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw Sister Suria

There are indeed many more deceptions check out Obama Deception by Alex Jones..An eye opening film about the Obama administration
Link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
http://nihalkhan.blogspot.com Nihal Khan

Please stop this bida’ah of changing the places of the month and day :)

http://muslimmatters.org/author/amatullah Amatullah

lol, Canadians do it differently :)

J

As-Salam Alaykum.

I want to start off by saying that I am not an Obama supporter, nor did I vote or support him in the past election. I am a Ron Paul supporter.

Having said that, I must say that some of the extremists and “hawks” amongst the Muslims misrepresent the position of those Muslims who voted for Obama. These extremists act as if the Obama supporters didn’t know that this was a very real possibility that Obama would end up the same as other past presidents. In fact, I believe that *most* religious Muslims who voted for Obama simply thought that he was the least odious of options. I distinctly remember that many of the Obama supporters here on MM even said to the effect of “I know that there is a high chance that he’ll end up like Bush, but he is the only option.”

So it’s not like the Obama supporters were so unbelievably stupid that they didn’t think it was a very real possibility. In fact, they knew this, so it’s really stupid of these extremists to be pointing out Obama’s actions and taunting Obama supporters.

Even though I believe Muslims should vote for Ron Paul, I would be crass to say that the votes for Obama were a complete waste. The Muslims who advocate voting (in line with the orthodox scholars) do so with the idea that the fruits of our labor will not manifest until many long years and even decades of struggle. Do you think that blacks immediately became a huge political force when they got the right to vote? No. In fact, in the beginning, politicians could ignore and override the black vote, i.e. give false promises to garner their votes. But eventually the blacks became a powerful voting bloc…after many years and even decades.

Voting is not some short term solution. Any Muslim who thought this (i.e. that if Muslims voted in Obama then everything would be ok) is simply stupid and misrepresenting the position of those who call towards voting.

Our voices will be ignored for a long time…it will take a long time of dedicated effort–sweat, tears and toil–before the American Muslims become an influential political group. But the process starts here and now. There will no doubt be hiccups along the way…but it’s not all in waste at all.

The Muslim vote in the last election did not go unnoticed. So even though there was no short-term benefit (since Obama is the same as the Bush), there is still a long-term benefit, namely that politicians will BEGIN to take note of the unified Muslim voting group. Over the years hopefully the Muslim vote will become more and more important, and only THEN will politicians begin to listen to American Muslims.

Therefore, to all those who say “I told you so”, I say: shut up and grow up.

Ron Paul 2012!

Fi Aman Allah
http://quranclub.blogspot.com Ikram Hadi

Obama is another proof that the whole American presidential elections are just a show. Both candidates work for the same guy. This is a very clever show, they busy the whole nation with election news while they secretly go about their business. As a Jewish man said, “Every president of the US has been our boy since 1932.”
http://www.examiner.com/x-8519-Detroit-Muslim-Examiner Sakina Al-Amin

I expect things for Muslims to get much, much worse before the bubble pops.
Amad

Sorry to say but it is obvious our canadian sister who wrote the Bush prouncement upon Obama has little understanding of political reality, as well as short-sightedness about current affairs.

The pressure on Israel has never been greater before (even if it is measly in an absolute sense, but we look at things in relative sense). Obama’s overtures to the Muslim world and his emphasis to improving relations is unparalleled in the last 2 decades.

As far as Pakistan and Afghanistan, you have no one to blame except our own corrupt thieves who are our “leaders”.

As far as civil liberties, perhaps you missed the change of emphasis for the DOJ, which wasn’t very appreciated by the right.

Remember Obama is America’s prez, not the Muslim world’s. He has to do what he feels is best for this nation. Everything else is relative to past admins. You cannot change Bush politics overnight. It is like starting from ground zero with 50 flights to climb. It takes time, patience, a lot of compromises and definitely many disappointments.

But to say that he is even remotely as bad as bush or as bad as mccain could have been is basically belying facts and trying to crystallize one own’s biases pre-election ( basically an attempt to say “we told you so” and that’s why we don’t vote). Sorry not so fast. The glass may not be half-full for us, but it isn’t half-empty either. Be just, even in criticism.

http://muslimmatters.org/author/anonymouse/ Zainab (AnonyMouse)

Sorry to say but it is obvious our canadian sister who wrote the Bush prouncement upon Obama has little understanding of political reality, as well as short-sightedness about current affairs.

Sorry to say, but it is obvious to me that our brothers and sisters who continue to believe that there will be any meaningful change under any American president, or indeed any other Western leader, have little understanding of political reality :)

Obama’s overtures to the Muslim world and his emphasis to improving relations is unparalleled in the last 2 decades.

Really? You mean Americans sucking up to so-called Muslim leaders and spouting out meaningless rhetoric about love, peace, and warm fuzzy feelings is a phenomenon that we’ve never witnessed before?

As for all the other details, I honestly find them to be little else other than an excuse for Obama. Changes in admininstration mean little without any serious change of policies. And of course Obama doesn’t work for Muslims, but for America – but that doesn’t mean that American Muslims, and indeed other Muslims anywhere in the world who are going to be directly affected by his policies – can’t expect better, and criticize him for when he acts just as bad/ worse (depending on how you see it) as his predecessors.

Come on, are we really going to continue deluding ourselves that anything’s really going to get better? I expected, and continue to expect, little change. Every passing day simply confirms it.
In any case, I suppose I’m just another stubborn skeptic :)
My days of belief in the political systems to bring about meaningful change of any sort are long over.

sincethestorm

One ayah keeps coming back in my head over and over again. The ayah that reminds believing people to not take non-believers as their supports and friends. Whether it is applicable in this situation or not who knows. But, I think Muslims need to create change for themselves rather than waiting for an outsider. They need to focus on improving their own situation. I agree with Sr. Zainab. Obama will be concerned with his best interest first and foremost ie.re-election in 2012.
Ibn Masood

Sorry to say, but it is obvious to me that our brothers and sisters who continue to believe that there will be any meaningful change under any American president, or indeed any other Western leader, have little understanding of political reality :)

Amen ukhti.

http://mezba.blogspot.com Mezba

I do not agree with the comments of the original posted (Zainab), and agree with Amad’s, although you will find other Canadians are quite well informed about the USA!

The problem with USA is that there’s only two real choices – Democrat, and Republican.

Here in Canada atleast if you don’t agree with the main two powers (Liberal and Conservative) you can vote NDP.

I think it’s time the leadership of the community in USA meet and come up with a long term (50 year) plan to gain influence in local politics.
http://youthmusings.wordpress.com/ Arif

The Cyber Security Act of 2009 gives the president the ability to “declare a cybersecurity emergency” and shut down or limit Internet traffic in any “critical” information network “in the interest of national security.”

Wow… this reminds me of when Musharraf was in power and his oft calls of “national emergency” and ‘shutting down’ the government and constitution according to his whims and of China and their censorship… This has added a lot of power to the President because it is “up to his definition” to define what constitutes an attack…
http://www.hahmed.com h. ahmed

as salaam alaikum

i second amad’s comment.

I find President Obama’s criticism in this article condescending, overly critical, extremely biased, and above all else unfair. I think Muslim Matters should only let Real Americans (from the US) comment on our domestic issues.

Comparing Bush to Obama is entirely unjustified and shows how little the author of this post understands the executive branch of our Government. These idealized notions of ‘real change’ that Obama has failed to bring, and distrust in American Public policy are completely counterproductive to any real progress (especially for Muslims), and such blatant negativity and pessimism is not only harmful, but I would argue a disservice to all of the readers of this blog – many of whom are unsure about these political matters.

Regarding Obama’s threats about Pakistan – maybe he wasnt strong enough on Pakistan. Pakistan is in such a mess and all of the violence is Muslim on Muslim. Maybe Obama shouldve attacked the taliban harder before – and maybe then all of whats going on today (over 2.3 million displaced individuals!!!!) would have been prevented. Allahu’alim. Its easy for any of us to sit here behind our computers and complain – when we dont have to worry about any real decision making or how to solve these problems we know nothing other than to complain about. What solutions do you have to solve all the chaos currently in Pakistan?

Yes – there is a lot wrong with the American government and our leaders – but not everyone is as evil as you claim them to be – and to spread such slander – is something you will be held accountable for.

And Allah (Swt) knows best.

PS- Mezba’s comment is perfectly valid and totally justified. I too believe the two party system is a major problem and something that needs to be dealt away with. Im proud of Americans like Jesse Ventura who speak freely without any ulterior party motives.

http://muslimmatters.org/author/anonymouse/ Zainab (AnonyMouse)

Wa ‘alaikumus-salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh,

I find President Obama’s criticism in this article condescending, overly critical, extremely biased, and above all else unfair.

This isn’t an article; it’s simply our open thread free-for-all… so please don’t take it as any attempt at sophisticated political analysis, because it’s not :)
Hassan

You were missing in action…

What about reversal on gitmo? what about “prelonged detention”? what about reversal on torture pictures? what about FISA? the list can go on.. its ok, I agree Obama is not Bush, Obama may be better, but we need to be as harsh on Obama as Bush, just if we voted for him, does not mean we have to defend him regardless
Hassan

Obama did not let further photos of Abu Gharaib released because they were further horrible:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html

Since this would endanger Obama’s military to continue raping and put them in danger of not raping, he decided not to release them

Gohar

Clever point.

J

For those of you reading Imam Suhaib Webb’s blog–and the subsequent attack on Imam Suhaib by Mas’ud Khan and Al-Andalus blog–I have written this refutation here:

http://www.ahlelbayt.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/SuhaibWebbSunniPath.pdf

Unlike Imam Suhaib, I am always willing to throw down in a blog war.

Please someone post this on SunniForum, since I’m banned over there. Jazakh-Allah khair.

Fi aman Allah
http://suhaibwebb.com Suhaib Webb

Asalamu alaykum,

I would kindly request that the above stay where it is. No need to engage in “blog wars” with anyone. Remeber the authentic statement of the Prophet “Guard what benefits you.” I ask folks not to attack anyone.

SDW

J

Wa alaykum as-salam, Imam Suhaib.

It is imperative that the truth be known about this issue, since it is the central part of our creed, i.e. what makes a person a Muslim.

Right now, many Muslim laypersons think it is a valid difference of opinion that it is ok to call on other than Allah [swt]…and they think this because of Sunnipath’s odd fatwa on the issue.

But in any case, let it stay here then insha-Allah. I just want to be clear that it is not meant as an attack on SunniPath, but only a rebuttal of the doubt that they are creating. May Allah [swt] save this Ummah from shirk.

There is a lot of good on SunniPath, and I do not deny that. I just hope they recant the odd opinions insha-Allah. And we all have our own faults and shortcomings.

Fi aman Allah

J

Also, the harsher words were reserved for the hateful Masud blog, not Sunnipath.

http://muslimmatters.org/author/amatullah Amatullah

Absolutely nothing to do with Obama or politics…

Check out what’s coming to the DC Area: http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2009/05/30/disconnected-from-allah-having-problems-with-your-salah-fiqh-of-salah-comes-to-virginia/

http://blessedwithbrothers.wordpress.com Saimah

Nice advertising sis :)

muhsinaa

Muslims want tangible change on Mideast from Obama:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090531/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_muslims_waiting_for_obama;_ylt=Am4kwiG4kR0E8k3RA4.RRrxH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTNmbTR0aW5iBGFzc2V0Ay9hcC8yMDA5MDUzMS9hcF9vbl9yZV9taV9lYS9tbF9tdXNsaW1zX3dhaXRpbmdfZm9yX29iYW1hBGNwb3MDNQRwb3MDNQRzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA211c2xpbXN3YW50dA–

Hey, at least it made mainstream news -> Associated Press.

Let’s continue to make du’a.
musique

Sunday, May 31, 2009
U.S. embassy to hold first-ever gay pride party tonight — in Iraq

In the short time that President Obama has been in office, there have been many breaches of foreign protocol such as an overt familiarity with the British Queen and bowing to the Saudi King. But the most significant indiscretion will occur tonight as homosexuality is promoted in our embassy in a foreign land — in Baghdad, Iraq, no less.

In the May 22, 2009 edition of The Washington Post, columnist Al Kamen wrote a piece entitled, “For One Night, Baghdad Gets a Pink Zone.” He revealed that the State Department is “holding what the invitation says is the first-ever U.S. Embassy Gay Pride Theme Party next Friday at Bagdaddy’s, which is the embassy employee association’s pub.” The invitation, which was sent out on May 10, encouraged everyone to, “Dress in drag or as a gay icon.”

The Islamic culture does not appreciate or allow public sexual displays to begin with. Now the American embassy is going to display sexuality in a way that will do nothing but offend the host population, needlessly complicating an already sensitive situation. The question becomes, who is going to suffer? Our embassy officials, or our soldiers on the ground who will endure the increased outrage when events such as this occur?

Frequently cited among Muslims is not a dislike of Americans, but a dislike of the American culture’s brazen sexual behavior such as that demonstrated during a gay pride event. Prominent sexual conduct is considered by the Middle Easterners as one example of the debauchery within Western culture that they do not want imported within their homes and country, and they are willing to fight us to allow their culture to remain unaffected. A gay pride display sponsored in an official location such as an embassy can only serve to provoke and inflame Muslim distrust and distain for Western and American culture.

What’s next? Will Baghdad host a Gay Pride Parade like the international one hosted in Tel Aviv ? And others in the cities of Jerusalem, Eilat, and Haifa?

Personally, I have no feelings about gays one way or the other. Live and let live. But to shove part of our noxious culture down a Muslim state like Iraq is an insult to all Muslims and a kick in the face to Iraqi’s.

We can’t get electrical power plants in Iraq running, nor provide Iraqi’s with drinking water. The unemployment rate is around 70%, thanks to the USA and the “Coalition of the Killing” wrecking that once prosperous nation.

But we can find time and taxpayer money to have drag queens and trannies parade around like they were back in Sodom and Gomorrah?

http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/
J

As-salam Alaykum,

A new website has been launched, which refutes the Shia website “Answering-Ansar.” Please check it out insha-Allah, and spread the word:

Lies of Answering-Ansar

Fi Aman Allah
monkeynurse

the deen, the deen, the deen. we need to come back to the deen. may Allah protect the righteous and punish the evil-doers.
Gohar

I don’t have any particular view about whether Obama has yet shown himself to be the lesser evil than other viable candidates that we hoped.

I do think less of him now though. When he talked about having a relationship of respect and mutual appreciation of democracy, then he at least sounded principled. Unfortunately, in an interview with the BBC, when he was asked whether he agreed that the Egyptian president was an autocrat (i.e. dictator), he refused to answer.

Again, not any worse than others would do (and its possible that he is under the mistaken view that behind the scenes criticism is better), but still hypocritical when you consider his topics of conversation with the muslim world and his man of the people type campaign.
Hidaya

http://muslimvoicesfestival.org/event/souk
http://trueword.wordpress.com aarij

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Daily-Guidance/87733919034

Make your Facebook more useful! A FB fan page that provides nice reminders that show up on your FB home page without intruding your personal space or spamming you.
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Zainab (AnonyMouse)

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