The following article is an edited transcription of a response that Sh. Yasir Qadhi gave to a question posed to him
in a class that he taught recently in London.

Q: Shaykh, I have unnatural urges and feel attracted to members of the same gender. I don't know what to do about this, can you please give me some advice.

A:
Bismillah, alhamdulillah, wa-l-salah wa-l-salaam ala Rasulillah

I was actually asked the same question in Toronto, a few weeks ago. And while this is a very disturbing question to some people, it is something that needs to be mentioned and discussed publicly.

It is possible that some people have urges that are considered abnormal by others. Sometimes, from a religious perspective these urges would indeed be classified as abnormal. But simply having such urges does not justify acting upon them.

The issue of sexual orientation has raised a huge controversy in Western circles. People are still debating whether sexual orientation is decreed by what they call 'Nature', or by 'nurture'. And the reason for this debate is that there is a tendency to justify homosexual urges because, it is claimed, they are beyond one's control. So, some people say: “My sexual orientation is something Nature has decreed. It's in my DNA – my genes! So its not in my control whether I am attracted to the opposite gender or the same gender.”

Such discussion is happening in the backdrop of what has been termed the 'sexual revolution', which began in full force in the 60's and, some would argue, is still continuing to this day. People are more open about topics of sexuality, morality levels have radically changed, and it has become acceptable to espouse what has been termed 'alternative life styles'. To give you just one example of how dramatic this revolution has been, many would be surprised to discover that even as recently as 50 years ago, Western culture viewed homosexuality with a very different lens. Up until 1973,  homosexuality was actually classified as a mental disease in America.

In our religion,  the discussion of whether these urges are because of 'Nature' or 'nurture' is really quite irrelevant. And by this I do not mean that we don't have an answer to this question. As Muslims, we believe that the fitrah that Allah created us upon is that, in terms of sexuality at least, opposites attract. But it is possible that some people have corrupted this fitrah themselves, or it has been corrupted by external methods. And it cannot even be ruled out that for some, the change in this fitrah is beyond their control.

But the point  is – and that is why I say the question is irrelevant to the Shar'i ruling –  even if somebody has such urges, it does not justify them acting upon it. Rather, what we can say to those who feel attracted to the same gender is that having such urges and conquering them is a part of the test Allah has given them. Each one of us is tried in different ways, and merely wanting to do an act is not justification enough to carry it out. Imagine if we were to open this door, and legitimize acting upon an urge merely because it existed!

And I firmly believe – and this is my theory, and it may be wrong –  that the primary reason why we are seeing a rise in such unnatural inclinations is because of the proliferation of sexual images and the increasement of public sexuality around us. What this proliferation has done is to desensitize us to that which we should not be desensitized to. We are constantly bombarded with images of the most beautiful women and the most handsome men, and such images are a temptation to those of the opposite gender. Wherever we look, whether its TV, advertisements, magazines, the internet, or even simply strolling down a public road, we constantly see the most sexually charged images possible. Sexuality is always flaunted in our faces. And the proliferation of such overt sexuality desensitizes our normal sexuality. It is amazing that looking at a scantily clad gorgeous model in an advert hardly elicits any sexual arousal amongst people of our generation, whereas just a few decades ago that very image might have been banned in some Western countries, or at least never displayed in public.

Can you imagine (I know it's difficult to do so, but let us try!) growing up in a world where you have never seen an unrelated woman? Where you have never witnessed nudity? Where you have never gone through love affair after love affair? For the one who is raised in such a world, a person of 'average' beauty would be attractive to someone of the opposite gender.

This unnatural emphasis that our modern world has on external beauty is simply dangerous. Typically, when a person is looking for a spouse, such a person should feel an attraction to somebody of a similar background and culture and age. Such is the way that Allah created us – a man is attracted to the natural beauty of a woman. And that is why in the past, for thousands of years, our own fathers, and forefathers before them, did not emphasize external beauty to even a fraction of what we do, and yet it can be argued, merely by looking at their divorce rates, that their marriages were far more successful than ours.  The whole emphasis on external beauty was simply unnatural to them. All of you know how your own parents and grandparents got married, and their grandparents before them. The groom comes, sees the bride, and, generally speaking, there is an attraction and the marriage takes place. Nowadays, on the other hand, the very notion of a pre-arranged marriage is a mockery that we would not subjugate ourselves to (and I am not suggesting here that we should – I'm merely pointing out how things have changed in just one generation). This emphasis that we have on 'beauty' and 'compatibility' is a very modern phenomenon. Of course I'm not suggesting that people in the past did not care about beauty, but what I am saying is that it was not anywhere near as emphasized as it is now. Also, since the generations before us were raised in environments where they were not subjected to the sight of sexual images everywhere, they would not compare their prospective spouses to the sensual images of world-famous models that have been seared into our heads as a result of our upbringing here. When we expect our spouses to look like the most beautiful/handsome people on Earth (and it must be pointed out that most pictures we see are not even real, having been digitally altered to look super-humanly sexy), this will only lead to trouble.

And so, when we have been bombarded with sexual images all the time, that which is naturally lustful loses its erotic nature. This then leads to being attracted to unnatural attractions. The bar for 'sexual titillation' rises higher and higher. It also explains certain sexual habits that are becoming more predominant between couples. While these habits might be halal and mubah in and of themselves, it does make us pause when we realize that people before us would disdain such practices and even consider some of them to be perverse. Once again, I reiterate that these practices might be halal, but the whole emphasis on sexual toys, sexual games, certain fetishes, and role playing, even between couples, is indicative of this sexually charged world we live in.  While these matters are halal, it does show that we are not satisfied with what is natural. Our desires become increasingly insatiable.

And so this is why we are seeing an increase in many unnatural and perverse desires. Homosexuality is on the rise amongst non-Muslims, and now also amongst Muslims. A few weeks ago I was in Toronto, and the exact same question came up, where a brother wrote the exact same thing. And he said: “Shaykh, I can't help it. What advice do you give me? I can't help feeling attracted to other men. This is the way I am. And I'm battling it, and I'm embarrassed of it,” and he even said: “I don't even want to get married. The thought of getting married disgusts me”.

So, the question arises: what does a person who has such feelings do?  As I've said, the fact that you have such feelings doesn't mean you act upon them. If Allah has tested you in this manner, then that is a part of your test and trial, and Allah says in the Qur'an, 'And Allah does not burden a soul with more than it can bear.' The claim that merely having an urge legitimizes it is extremely flimsy.

I say that I'm attracted to women. Does that legitimize going after every woman I'm attracted to? Of course not. We all have our desires and urges and we must all battle them. So if you experience urges that are unnatural, you must battle them, and without doubt Allah will reward you for that.

Another point to realize is that the urge, in and of itself, is not sinful. It is simply a desire, and desires are beyond our control, hence we are not accountable for them. But to allow such feelings to persist without trying to control them is problematic. In any case, the urge in and of itself is not sinful, acting on the urge is what incurs sin. As long as the desire remains in the realm of feeling, you are not accountable on the Day of Judgment, but the second that this desire is manifested in a physical action, you are liable for all that follows.

Lastly, even if you have acted upon this urge – and we seek Allah's refuge from this – know that this would constitute a sin. Yes, a major sin, and one that most people would be disgusted by, but realize that it is a sin alone and not kufr. Hence, even acting upon it and committing a major sin does not expel you from the fold of Islam. However, to stand up and justify it, or defend it, or write articles claiming that it is Islamic, without a doubt constitutes kufr, and not merely sin.

So, my dear brother who wrote this question – and you are my brother in Islam, even if you have such feelings – I want you to know that I sympathize with you, and I also appreciate your honesty and sincerity. I advise you to seek counseling, and to go to people who will understand your situation and who can direct you in a more specific manner. I understand as well that if you go to many of the typical imams of the masjids, they would not sympathize with your situation at all and would probably make matters worse for you. I understand that you cannot go to such people. But you will find sympathetic ears to listen to your problem, insha'Allah.

And remember that marriage is a solution, so you should seriously consider it. The Prophet Lut 'alayhis salam told his people, “These are my daughters, they are more pure for you.”  Some scholars say that when he said “daughters”, he is also implying the women of the town and not just his own daughters. So he's telling the men of his community who were guilty of this crime to go and marry women, for they are better and purer for them. Marriage is a solution, because sensuality and sexuality is something that can be satisfied – rather it should be satisfied – by the opposite gender within the confines of marriage.

Try to repel these urges, do not act upon them, take immediate steps to get married, and throughout all of this, put your trust in Allah and continue making du'a to Him, and I pray that Allah makes your situation easy for you and blesses you in this life and the next.

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328 Responses

  1. ALGEBRA

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    • M

      I don’t mean to offend people, but I do want to raise some awareness. I also have homosexual urges, and where I lived, I could share these urges with other boys and men as well. I could just talk in private with any man I was interested in, and I would just touch them subtly at first, but eventually we would have homosexual relations. Muslim men are so repressed, I really think we are very vulnerable to persuasion, though none will ever admit to it, and many might not even know they are so vulnerable until approached in such a fashion.

      I think the same sort of “situational sexuality” happens in prison and other places where relations with women are restricted.

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    • Nearzzz1

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  2. ALGEBRA

    Aslamu-alaikum:

    I forgot to bring up another point……………….Speaking of homosexuality being a big sin in this country from 1972.

    I think it was hypocritical of the evangelist of this country to condemn homosexuality so harshly when the punishment according to ISLAM and CHRISTIANITY for committing sodomy is the same as committing adultery…………………. stoning to death…..

    I mean when these people started voting to abolish homosexuality maybe they should think about abolishing adultery……………. the hadd is the same anyway ……………something that I was thinking about saying when these hypocritical christian evangelist talk there rhetoric
    salalm

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  3. Naeem

    AA-

    If part of the analysis is that the environment is a source of the problem (with the barrage of sensual images and commercialization of sex), should not part of the solution consist of removing one self from said environment (when and if possible)?

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    • Kay Slimani

      Salam, Yep..You are right… I m encountering this thing, I am girl who from childhood likes girl…….and now I am forcing myself to like guys instead…because I am very aware that I will not bear children if I am with a woman. Very Basic logic and thus very Alarming. 

      Well, It does happen… sadly… I cannot refrain from looking at women but I consciously divert my thinking. Its a MENTAL BATTLE.

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  4. calihijabi

    assalamu alaikum,

    These things shouldn’t always be addressed toward brothers; why is the sexuality of a Muslimah always ignored? Unfortunately, this is something that plagues Muslim women as much as Muslim men. Sisters also need naseehah insha’Allah; esp. since circles of women tend to have less physical separation and different social norms than groups of men, which can be more dangerous. wa Allahu alam.

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  5. Hafiz_Shak

    In response to CaliHijabi, you have raised an excellent point. I think you have just picked a small tooth fron an entire cog. I think we need more female scholars the equivalant to shaikh yasir qadhi not the likes of amina wadud. the latter of which would distort the truth to such an extent tht she claims it to be legal in Islam.

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  6. N

    The fact that homosexual acts among Saudi young guys (and other segregated cultures like boys-only dorms) is so high suggests that the scholar is completely wrong in thinking that seeing images of women somehow makes you gay.

    Also, as his final recommendation of suggesting a gay guy to marry a girl is horrible – it destroys 2 lives. The plight of ex-gays and straight-camps has been documented pretty well.

    Plus, its not that there is this sudden increase in homosexuality which he attributes to the recent sexual revolution. All htat has happened recently is that for the first time in history, gay people have had the freedom to be open about their feelings. We’ve had homosexual urges among a minority population documented since the Greek times of Alexander the great who had a boyfriend, (and ofcourse even before that).

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    • aj

      in my community people have been discussin this. and from what I know there have been gays since loong loong ago, its ancient history and its in every part of the world.

      I also think it might destroy a marriage to encourage a gay man to marry a woman because they will both end up unhappy . I think we have seen situations in which woman complain about this

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  7. Hassan

    N said:

    The fact that homosexual acts among Saudi young guys (and other segregated cultures like boys-only dorms) is so high suggests that the scholar is completely wrong in thinking that seeing images of women somehow makes you gay.

    This should be worth being researched and responding. Perhaps strict separation also causes gayness?

    Also classical islamic scholars have written/talked about this subject, hence its not something new, so there may be other causes.

    So is gayness curable? If not then, those people should just fight urges, no point of marrying.

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  8. ALGEBRA

    calihijabi
    I don’t know of in history in Islam and other religions where there was punishment sent on women for being homosexual. I think the reason they go into homosexuality is another reason altogether……………… anyway men being homosexual causes more harm in society in general……… i mean diseases, no marraiges for other women, its just more harmful in every way…………………I just don’t understand how that hadd could be put on a woman……………..i mean how can she commit sodomy…………. i don’t get what you are saying in terms of sin………….

    Hassan:
    I think it is becoming more prevalent and OPEN NOW. the fact that it was hush hush kept people that even had the urges so to speak from ACTING ON IT. The fact that it was considered taboo was a hindrance to lead to that direction. NOW THAT IT IS CONSIDERED somewhat of an HONOR so to speak in COMING OUT……………. has given it some kind of legitamacy, whereas, previously it was considered abnormal.
    COMING OUT IS CONSIDERED now to be courageous act instead of something infamous.
    I think keeping it low was a deterrence in acting upon those urges………..

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    • Kay Slimani

      Sodomy for men., sihaq is for women. it is simply a gentle intercourse…. Im just sad, because our world is falling apart :( 

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  9. Ibn Mikdad

    “Perhaps strict separation also causes gayness?”

    An explosion of perversion of sexual orientation in the West began to happen only when the barriers of separation began to crumble. I’m not saying it did not exist before, just saying that it became widespread when barriers between opposite sexes began to be removed. So strict separation does not, in my opinion, cause homosexuality as a sexual orientation; history of homosexuality in the West (not only modern West; just look at ancient Greeks) seems to prove just the opposite; however, not being able to satisfy your sexual desires with the member of the opposite sex may lead to acts of homosexual sex, and I think that prisons are a good example of that; lot of homosexual activity there, but very few people who consider themselves homosexuals.

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  10. ALGEBRA

    Aslamu-alaikum:
    Ibn Mikdad
    agree with you on your points!!!!!!!Yes in the GREEK era they used to have public baths for men………..like they do in dorm bathrooms today. just the same no different.
    salam

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  11. Sarah

    Algebra, don’t be obtuse (excuse the pun). Female homosexual activity IS punishable in Islam, and is just as reprehensible and harmful as the male.

    And regards homosexuality in strictly segregated societies such as Saudi, it is a very well known social phenomenon, as well as child molestation. The stories I’ve heard from people who lived there make my skin crawl. Bottom line: neither extreme is healthy.

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  12. m

    assalamualaikum,
    we don’t have to put your opinion. always. sometime be a try to be a good listener and learn from perspectives, otherwise we can write own article which mm might entertain publishing.

    great article shaykh yq. appreciate it. jazakumullah kheir.

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  13. ALGEBRA

    Sarah
    Aslamu-alaikum:
    I didn’t say it was not punishable. I guess i wasnt’ making my self clear…………..
    Its just that it is not common among muslim women…………… or i haven’t seen it common among muslim women…………Yes i have heard of it in all women dorms but that is because those women are not married. When they get married they leave the relationship so to speak. Its not like a live in females kind of thing.
    Personally, i think women and men need to get married at an early age. Simple as that.. it is a detterence in every way. But in history, Muslim, Greek, etc the practice has been common among MEN.
    salam

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    • Mohammad

      In addition to that, in Islam, when we talk about men, mostly, women are included too. There are many prophetic sayings that talks about men which includes women at the same time.

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  14. W

    I agree with Ibn Mikdad! I would also like to point to the fact that Islam encourages early marriages. And it’s worthwhile to note that the concept of being ‘baligh’ (being considered an adult), in Islam, is very different than just turning 18. Early unions allow, not only for a socially acceptable outlet in terms of satisfying urges but also keep stray thoughts (which can then potentially turn into actions) at bay.

    In regards to the issue at hand about homosexuality, I agree with Sh. Yasir Qadhi’s approach. Perhaps, we as a community should try to find solutions for our brothers and sisters who might be in need of counseling, and help them cope with these issues rather than alienating them. Remember, Islam is a religion of peace and mercy and stoning to death is something that even Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) used as the VERY LAST resort. So let’s be a little bit more sensitive to those who are in need, and appreciate the fact that they are willing to seek help rather than following their urges. May Allah give them strength and reward them for their efforts.

    Just reading this article, I really wish to be able to help those in our community who do need help. Perhaps the resident scholars at muslim matters would consider recommending what steps our community, as a whole, can take to help out our brothers and sisters. I look forward to reading, and perhaps getting involved to be, the part of the solution.

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  15. Zaynab

    JazakAllah khayr, Sh.Yasir, for addressing this issue so publicly. And especially for making the clear distinction that it is that action and not the urge that is a sin. We need to recognize and validate people’s efforts to obey Allah and not just write them off for having these urges.

    As for homosexuality in strictly segregated societies, maybe it’s not the segregation but the vilification of the other sex that causes these problems? If you are taught that women (or men) are only a fitnah, and only associate them with evil, and if misogyny is the norm, wouldn’t it only follow that homosexuality would increase?

    And Allah knows best

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  16. Muslim007

    Our director Imam Shamsi Ali at Masjid ALmamoor-Jamaica Muslim Center brought the issue this Saturday during the off topic tafseer discussion. He said Muslim scholars need to understand this issue and do more to tackle it front on. He also said that this homosexuality issue which has recently got the attention has long before discussed by Muslim scholars in that past. Then he referenced that in fiq’hi education there is chapter on Baabul Khunsa, which discusses gay matters and suggests solutions to it.

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  17. ex-wife

    I appreciate br Yasir Qadhi’s advice, but i am saddened by his suggestion that such men should get married. I was married to a man who had no inclination towards women. The marriage ended soon and left me feeling inadequate as a woman, with low self-esteem and zero confidence as a result. In short, it destroyed me. Alhumdulilah, that was Allah’s qadr for me and emerged stronger from it. But, if had known about this of him, i would never have married him.

    One of the things that is binding on prospective husband/wife is to disclose or make known before agreeing to a marriage, any fault/condition that they may have, which could negatively affect the decision of the other party. If someone has gay tendencies or no inclination towards the opposite gender, shouldn’t this condition be made known to the other party? Isn’t it a deception to not disclose it? Is it fair to the unsuspecting girl?

    I ask you bro Yasir, would you like this for your daughter? Would you offer your daughter in marriage to a man who has gay tendencies but ‘is trying to control it and not acting upon it’? (I don’t mean to be harsh or disrespectful when i asked this. Allah knows, it is a genuine question.)

    Allah knows best.

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    • Amine

      This is so true, my sister. It happened to me too.
      I loved my husband and he loved me but he had no sexual desire for me or for any woman.
      Our marriage ended with disappointment.

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      • Hope

        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  18. Muslim007

    **And he also talked about similar issue that Sheikh Yasir Qadhi discussed. A guy called him and said he has no feeling towards his wife so Imam Shmasi Ali told him that feelings will create as time goes along and suggested him some solutions but then the guy said that he is actually a gay.

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  19. Zaynab

    Just let me clarify one thing from my earlier post:
    Misogyny and this kind of vilification of the opposite sex doesn’t happen in all segregated societies. And I’m not discouraging gender segregation, I’m simply advocating balance. We need to see the mutual respect in segregation as well as the preservation of one’s deen.

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  20. Aspen

    It is absolutely wrong to say that the punishment for homosexuality in Christianity is stoning.

    The punishment for homosexuality in the Torah is stoning, and the Torah is included in the Christian Bible–but it is superseded by the Gospel of Christ, which is why Christians also do not keep kosher or other aspects of Jewish law.

    In fact, the New Testament, and Christianity in general, never prescribes any specific punishment for any sin. Sin is simply forgiven; there are no punishments. For some Christians, like Catholic and Orthodox Christians, there may be a “penance,” but that usually consists of a few minutes of praying, and it is chosen by the minister on a case-by-case basis; it is never prescribed.

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    • The Truth

      the true God laws never change, if Torah and the Quran said stoning, the punishment for the sin of homosexuality should be stoning if found guilty of it. if Christianity in general, never prescribes any specific punishment for any sin it because the christian word of God has been corupted by man. to suit there needs.

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      • Ahmed

        “if Torah and the Quran said stoning, the punishment for the sin of homosexuality should be stoning if found guilty of it.”

        How do you know that this is what God has truly prescribed?

        Books simply don’t fall from heaven. All books in existence are written by men, and are just as likely to be modified, edited, translated, interpreted differently as any other book.

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      • Luky

        Yes books can be modified. But isn’t it amazing the Quran hasn’t changed in 1400 years. People may debate about the source, but everyone knows not a single letter has been changed.

        If only all scriptures were in their original state…

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  21. abu alee

    @ Aspen, it is wrong for you to say the laws of the Torah are superseded by the Gospels. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil…” [The Bible, Mathew 5:17]

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  22. abu abdAllah Tariq Ahmed

    Bismillah was salamu alaykum, Shaykh Yasir,

    Verily I love you, shaykh, and I love you only for the sake of Allah, and only as my brother in Islam. :) A much-needed article, and another example of how flexible Islam is, the Deen that Allah gifted to mankind as a light to guide him from the darkness of his ignorance and to protect him from the confusion of evil influences.

    To my brothers and sisters who are beset by any evil inclination:

    …the urge in and of itself is not sinful, acting on the urge is what incurs sin.

    How Merciful is Allah that not only does He hold blameless the person to whom comes a thought, an urge, or a waswasa, not only does He reserve punishment for actions that are sinful, but also He rewards the one who resists commiting evil actions. And more than that, too, He accepts sincere repentence, and rewards the one who repents! And more than that, too, He loves the one whose repentence, whose right conduct, whose self-reform is all for His sake alone.

    Do not conform to the will of the people seeking izzat or security thereby. Do not conform to the inclinations of society — whatever those may be at any given time. Rather, submit to the Command of Allah because He is your Rabb.

    It makes sense that marriage that conforms to the shariah is better for a person than remaining single, even if the married person must fight homosexual urges. Here are a few wisdoms that can be perceived therein:

    (1) A married person fights all sexual temptations — because shaytan will attack him or her from every direction. So shaytan attacks one married person with the urge to zina with a person of the opposite gender. And shaytan attacks another with the urge to commit zina with a person of the same gender. Both actions are zina, and both actions are despicable to Allah. And the one who succeeds resists zina, period. The “orientation” of the attack from shaytan is irrelevant.

    (2) A married person has a helper in what is good — the spouses are garments for each other. So wear the garment that pleases Allah. And remember that the best of qualities to seek in a spouse is faith-in/fear-of Allah. It may be that the person who fights one urge is an incredible help to the other spouse in fighting an altogether different urge, and vice versa. And in helping each other respect can grow. And Allah is the One upon Whom you both rely.

    (3) Every good trait of khuluq may be natural/innate — or learned/practiced. In a hadith I was taught at Practimate.com by Shaykh Yaser Birjas, the Prophet sull Allaho alayhi wa sallam remarked on the delay of a visiting tribal leader. And the man explained himself by indicating that he had wanted to dress nicely and be clean when he came before the Prophet sull Allaho alayhi wa sallam. And that respectful behavior was loved by Allah and by His Messenger, and the Prophet sull Allaho alayhi wa sallam gave the man glad tidings for his behavior was innate to his character. And the man thanked Allah for Creating him thus. And the point for us is that even a person who did not care if his clothes or body were clean and well-groomed could see what kind of behavior is loved by Allah and emulate that to please Him. And with time the learned or practiced behavior can become second nature, bi ‘idhnillah.

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  23. Taahir

    With all due respect to Sh. Yasir Qadhi and those who have posted above, I (privately) speak as one who has such “urges”. I feel down to my very bones that I absolutely, positively am NOT sexually attracted to women in any way, but have such feelings toward men. Being attracted to men is for me as natural as being attracted to women is for you. Before everyone panics, I do not act on it. However I do feel that I have been like this since I was a little boy. I have fought these urges for years. I have cried. AND CRIED. AND CRIED. I have prayed countless rakaat in tahujjjud. I have fasted Mondays and Thursdays. I cried and made du’aa on Mt Arafat during the Hajj that He would heal me and make me attracted to women. I have done so many things to try to get closer to Allah so that he would relieve me of these urges. To no avail.

    Let me say very clearly: I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE THESE URGES. I would love nothing more than to be a normal man who is sexually attracted to women. This has nothing to do with separation of the sexes. I was not sexually abused as a child. I have none of the stereotypical patterns that people attribute to us. This is not like a drinking problem or a gambling addition. An alcoholic can stay away from alcohol and be fine. A gambling addict can be removed from casinos and be fine. My urges follow me everywhere

    All the other brothers can crack jokes about throwing homosexuals off roofs and that sort of thing and laugh about it. I can not. All the other brothers can spend hours talking about the features and qualities they want in a wife. I can not. I can not confide in anyone. During college, I particially confided in a Muslim brother I thought would understand and he dismissed me as a “faggot” and never spoke to me again. He hated me and would not come near me again. I made no sexual advance on him yet that is how he treated me. This is why confiding in someone is not an option for many of us. Brothers will turn into some kind of Nazi on you and resolve to ruin you. So we suffer in silence. We are then forced to talk to and meet others with the same struggles. Just to have someone to talk to. Not to have sex with! This is how groups like Al-Fatiha formed. I am not willing to go THAT far, but I have met with them and many of them are good Muslims. You would be shocked.

    At this point I have determined to simply be celibate. I can not understand why Allah would put these urges in me while condemning me. These urges are not put into other normal people. It is as natural for them to be attracted to the opposite sex as breathing. I feel trapped. I can only imagine that being with a woman for me would be like giving an ob/gyn examination. If the questioner is like me, then I feel that it is incredibly irresponsible to advise him to get married. That is your job I suppose, but it would be unjust both to him and to his potential spouse. I don’t have the heart to get into a marriage with a woman for me to be unjust to her in not loving her properly. And she would not be able to fulfill my needs either. And if I am honest (as one person above seems to suggest) what woman in her right mind would want to marry a man that is not attracted to women? The best advise is to tell him to remain celibate and keep to himself while not acting on those “urges”. That is what I do. I see no other answer.

    In the end, I am glad that you brought up this topic because we are out here. We pay and come to your classes. We are in the ranks with you in salaah. We break the fast with you. We make hajj with you. And there are more of us than one may think. I am not saying this to scare anyone, but to let people know that there are Allah fearing individuals sincerely struggling with this and have been for their entire lives. Trying to turn us into you will not work. And throwing around threats of takfeer and kufr will not make the problem go away either.

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    • Amad

      salam Br. Taahir,
      I admire you for your courage and honesty. You are more of a man than many of us. At least you recognize the issue, and are saving yourself from the fitnah that afflicts you. I cannot say that I can truly empathize with you, not having this problem, but I can certainly sympathize for you. Your comment gives us all a glimpse of the pain that you suffer. Truly, Allah has a fitnah written for all human beings, some come out with flying colors, others fail. While you have this fitnah, there are many Muslim men who have the fitnah of controlling their urge for women, even the married ones. And there are many from them who fail miserably. Furthermore, your sense of justice to not marry because you don’t want your wife to pay for your “issue” is also commendable. I don’t know what to say on it, except that what you said and what “ex-wife” mentioned, makes a lot of sense. As I said, you are more man for fighting your fitnah than many of us. And I have no qualm in saying that.

      May Allah forgive your sins and strengthen your resolve against your urge towards sin, and may Allah turn this around for you, as Allah is indeed capable of anything.

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    • africana

      have you looked into gay ocd? in the psychological literature it’s called hocd and is recognised as a form of obsessive compulsive disorder charactersied by intrusive thoughts and worries about being gay.

      some people even report feeling unwanted urges and unwanted groinal response which sufferers mistakingly take as confirmation that they really are gay….when in truth, it’s all in the mind.

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    • Smira

      Salam Tahir,

      It must take allot of courage and allot of heart to speak with such sincerity and honesty. I dont think I have come across a brother with honest humbleness compassion when addressing personal problems like that. What you wrote there really made me understand just what kind of issue we need to deal with and how much help we need to provide. As a muslimah, I am sorry that I wasnt that one person that could help you whether it is personally knowing you or even participating in such projects to target these specific issues withing our muslim community. Inshallah, I will make Dua for you to help you and I do this with the greatest hope that Allah will help you. As a side note; dont let others bring you down because of this problem….you must remind yourself that you are better off than some muslims or muslimahs who dont have this problem at all. May Allah grant you the highest paradise Inshallah.

      Ma’a Salama

      Smira–Canada

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    • :)

      I know this is an extremely late comment.. and I haven’t exactly read all the comments on this page so this could have been said already but .. I was thinking.. You say you’ve decided to be celibate right?

      Well, marriage isn’t all about sex. I’m sure you don’t want to live alone for the rest of your life. And I’m sure you dream about having a kid of your own one day. You need a companion. Someone you can share your day to day experiences with. AND someone who understands you. You’re not hopeless. You’re right.. I’m a straight female and I would never want to marry you.. but I also don’t share this problem alahmdulillah/masha Allah/tabarakallah. You should marry a lesbian girl who feels the same way you do. I’m sure they exist. You can probably find them the same way you found these gay brothers you talked too. Marriage is half the deen for you too you know.. and it’s better than being celibate.

      And hey.. try invitro (if the natural way disgusts you).. and get a kid. Just as long as you don’t share these thoughts with your kid.. it’s all good. You can live a pretty normal life..

      And hey.. most couples don’t even have sex that often after a few years of marriage.. and those are people who are attracted to the opposite sex. Just get married to a lesbian like you and skip a few years. Think of it as living with a best friend. And I wish ya all the best

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      • Hope

        i would marry such a man – i’m straight and i would not mind to marry such a man. having said this, i also want to ask Taahir: when you say a woman could not fulfil your needs – why not? what about non-intercourse methods of sexual interaction? why would those not work, such as handjobs, etc…
        why would that not fulfil you somewhat?

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    • Tarek

      Taahir bhai this made me cry! i am in the same struggle as you and its not easy. i have not friends to speak with except one. i am so lonely but i keep fighting and i weaken too! its very easy for straight people to tell homesexuals to not act on urges, but they dont realize how tough it is….its like telling them to urge having sex with the opposite sex forever! its impossible! i am very proud of you for being celibite but i know its not easy! may allah make things easy for you and bless you and maybe one day even change you. i also commend you for staying on the path of Allah! you surely will have your reward in teh hereafter!

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    • Azazel

      Wow! You have captured my thoughts and feelings in every possible manner. You have given me hope :)
      I for one WAS sexually molested and on top of that raped by none other than my Tajweed teacher!!! (Quranic grammar). I was depressed to the point of suicide but Islam saved me. It made every day bearable little by little until I could finally hold my head up high and not look behind my back every minute later; checking to see whether someone suspects me of acting in a ‘queer’ manner.
      My resolution in life is also celibacy. I don’t know how it’s going to be achieved but if there’s anything my experiences have taught me: it’s that live life on a day-to-day basis! I hope and pray that it turns out alright in the end.

      As for the article, I like it, it’s so much better than most of the other articles about so called ‘curing homosexuality’. Although, the marriage part is something I don’t really get.

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    • Patient

      You should know none the less that even straight people like many many many of them through out history and even today despite having immense sexual urges cannot get married. instead all of them choose celibacy. and the reason being as common as having deformities, down syndrome, autistic, special, conjoint, paralysed, UGLY, lame, acid victims, believing prisoners and much more. Its a test for them same its a test for you. no need to have a special treatment section and more it feels kind of a offence. If its really that hard then its the same hard for all.

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    • Adi

      Assalamu alaikum brother Taahir!

      Very well said!
      I go through exactly what you go through…after fighting with it for so long. I just accept it and trained myself to remain celibate because I also find no other solution. I am out to a lot of people because I find no shame in facing this trial from God. However, I stay away from acting on it. As for marrying a woman, THAT is out of question. I have talked to so many women who have said that if they knew that the man is gay, they wouldn’t marry him. I also know of guys who married women without telling them and their lives are full of misery. Always trying to make sure no one finds out. I don’t want that life.

      InshaAllah, people might laugh at our struggle, poke fun at us, and condemn us just because we have these feelings. Only Allah knows how great our sacrifice is and bi’idhnillah, our reward is with Him, not with people.

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    • Mahmud

      No one should be declared kaffir for desiring or committing this sin, however, accepting it as not haram is kufr indeed.

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    • Hyde

      Very touching, but just for second what if you were to replace homosexuality with any other abnormalities ??

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  24. Atif

    Assalamu’alaykum
    How about this as a solution: A muslim who has these urges enters into a celibate marriage (nikah kitaba) for a period of a year, 2 years, etc. Then inshaAllah, it has hoped that feelings of love will develop between the spouses (even if there is no physical attraction from the man in the beginning). Then when there is love, I would think that sexual attraction would start to develop (I believe that it is much easier to be attracted to someone you love, then a stranger), then they can try to experiment with sexual intimacy (perhaps not intercourse right away, but other sexual acts).

    I could understand how it would be problematic for a muslim with urges like these to go into a normal (non-celibate) marriage, because it seems like there would be issues starting from the wedding night itself.

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    • Adi

      Would you allow your sister to be married to a man who is willing to enter into a celibate marriage?

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  25. MM Associates

    Ameen to the duaa.

    Maybe some research should be done on what the scholars of past wrote on this topic and gave as solutions.

    -Amatullah

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  26. a sister

    Ameen. Barak Allahu Feek for addressing the issue. A practicing brother once confided in me (probably because of the fear of confiding in other brothers like Br. Thair mentioned) having these urges. He actually described the exact moment he felt it.
    This brother had recently become attached to the deen and was trying to balance his world and let go of his partying ways. He was madly in love with a sister he could not marry and to both their detriment they continued hanging out. He described feeling incredibly frustrated at notion of just-being-friends with her. To run away from the though of her and other issues he went with to a rave with his buddies one night. He told me, while he was dancing he was trying very hard to lower his gaze and be by himself, and then all of a sudden he felt turned on by his best friend who was dancing beside him. He said the urges lasted all night and he felt powerless.
    He tried a combination of intensifying his ibadaah and smoking weed to help himself out. Allahualam what has become of that brother, but like br. Tahir mentioned these brothers are sitting next to you in salah and need our help. Perhaps some of them have no attraction towards women, regardless we need to find a uniquely islamic solution to ease their situation.
    May Allah make it easy for all us to master our desires, ameen.

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  27. Aspen

    @ abu alee

    “fulfill” is understood by Christians as making the laws fulfilled, and no longer binding. The torah is included in Christian Bible as theological useful, but not as legally binding. This is confirmed by the Christian reading of Acts 15. As a muslim, you may disagree with the Christian reading of Christian scriptures; but that is how Christians understand their scriptures and their religion. There are no prescribed punishments in Christianity; forgiveness is freely given. There are not even 1% of Christians who believe otherwise.

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  28. Asmaa

    @ex-wife and Taahir : Thank you so much for sharing the *realities* of these situations from a ‘been there’ POV for the readership. It’s one thing to say “It’s porn’s fault, go get married” and another to be the people in that situation. I really, really, really wish, from the bottom of my heart that Taahir finds peace and completion one day. It pains me to see the hurt that is so evident in your words here.

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  29. bro

    May Allah help those who have this problem. There must be a way to develop the natural desire for women, any research on this? Any successful cases?

    I really sympathize for brother Taahir, and commend him for his strength in dealing with the issue. Reminiscent of an article on this site about a brother addicted to pornography, despite being married. He also made much Duaa, at Hajj, and has had the issue for a decade. Many others have different types of urges they struggle with. However, many with he help of Allah have succeeded in overcoming them.

    And Taahir Akhi, don’t stop the duaa, ever, and never give up. There have been many who after much Duaa and internal struggle said “I never imagined that I could live without it, but now alhamdulillah, I can’t imagine why I liked it in the first place”

    Make duaa as a man who fell overboard in the middle of the ocean during a violent storm, ya rab, ya rab.

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  30. BB

    asalamoaliakom dear brothers

    i am having these same problem. ihave the attractions to the men. i can not help these thing. what should i do. every time i see my friend, yani i get very bad thoughts.

    is horse play a bad things? please help dear brothers

    yuor brother
    hossam

    -Edited.

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  31. Amber

    It’s interesting that separation of sexes is provided as an example, when there have been quite a few scandalous lesbian cases at the infamous Madrassa i live by in America. I met some of the girls who have committed such acts and they claim that the separation of sexes has distorted their sexual orientation, and they feel that love can only truly be found by another woman. Personally, I don’t really like how the school is set up on the woman’s side since all the windows are blocked and female students are prohibited from going outside, even prohibited from their own fenced-in playground.

    If you read any book on homosexuality during or around the Ottoman Empire (Authors include Khaled El-Rouayheb, Walter Andrews, etc.) you will see that it is something that does in fact exist in Arabic-Islamic regions. Also, try googling homosexuality along with another Islamic country and be surprised with the results. I don’t think blaming the West on the proliferation of homosexuality is a good idea, when there have already been articles on this website about how pornography, another hated sexual crime in Islam, is widespread in Muslim countries.

    Is it really that easy to suppress your desires? Especially since in the example men who have sexual desires for women will eventually have the chance to get married to up to four woman. While men who only have desires for other men have to live and socialize amongst the forbidden temptation. And marriage can lead to great embarrassment… there was a man who got married to a family friend of mine. On the wedding night the girl left her room to return to her own family, because the man did not have the ability to consummate the marriage due to his homosexuality that was completely unknown until that time. You can imagine that his entire life is one in which he must live in shame, because he tried his best to return to the right path, but was unable to do so and everyone in their community now knows his secret. Is it even fair on the woman or man who isn’t homosexual to marry a homosexual? …I remember there was this article in I think the Herald Tribune a few years ago about how some gay Muslim men were trying to reduce their haraam behavior by marrying lesbian Muslims or non-Muslims.

    Otherwise I found Sheikh Qadhi to have had an interesting response, since you rarely hear an Islamic Scholar not immediately denounce homosexuality as a ‘nurtured’ mental disease.

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  32. AnonyMouse

    I seriously think that in dealing with homosexuality – cases, causes, and methods of dealing with it – we need to move beyond the ‘traditional’ and oft-quoted beliefs regarding them.
    The Qur’an and Sunnah state only that acting upon homosexuality is forbidden; they do not say exactly what it’s causes are. As we have seen, many of the ‘old’ arguments against homosexuality’s causes and ‘solutions’ to it are easily contested and debatable.
    Rather than stubbornly sticking to them, let’s just accept that it exists w/o necessarily pontificating upon possible reasons; and once we’ve done that, let’s move on and see how we can help our fellow Muslims who are fighting these urges, to strenghthen them in their personal Jihad.

    Perhaps the greatest thing we need to realize is that fighting homosexual urges is very different from fighting ‘normal’ sexual urges. That is, someone who has a hard time lowering their gaze wrt the opposite sex can still work on keeping away from intermingingly and one day look forward to getting married and fulfilling those desires; but someone who doesn’t feel an attraction to the opposite gender faces several other challenges: in a typical Muslim environment they are surrounded by those to whom they feel an attraction, and they can’t ever fulfill those urges either.
    So, since telling someone who is gay to get married to someone of the opposite gender is potentially devastating to both parties (the gay person and their spouse), what, if any, other alternatives are available?

    These are extremely difficult questions which our scholars need to address and answer in a contemporary, practical manner; and we as laymen also need to be aware of the challenges facing these brothers and sisters. Furthermore, we need to develop a method of how to interact with such brothers and sisters WITHOUT rejecting them, ostracizing them, etc.

    One website which I found very interesting, and seemed to cover the above issues in the manner which I described, is http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/

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  33. Yasir Qadhi

    Salam Alaikum

    I appreciate the comments and feedback.

    – I make no claims to authority regarding psychological issues: my observation on the possible explanation for the rise of homosexuality is merely an opinion, and could be totally wrong.
    – The advice to get married is actually from Prophet Lut to his people (as mentioned in the Quran), hence I would assume there would be some Divine Wisdom behind it. However, there is no question (as Br. Taahir above bravely expressed) that it is better to remain celibate than to enter a marriage where you feel you will harm the wife psychologically.
    – For sure, more research needs to be done. This is not my area of expertise and I only gave a few comments since I was asked the same question twice (and in fact I have also been asked private questions by sisters who expressed the same problem of being attracted to their gender).

    This is an issue that needs to be discussed publicly and my main intention for this article was to jumpstart such a discussion.

    Keep the comments coming, I think we’re all benefiting by reading them.

    Yasir

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  34. Muslim007

    Gayness and Homosexuality

    In Islam [...] How do we look upon gays… what is the Islamic viewpoint? do we respect them for them being gay because they choose to be gay?

    The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were not held in any respect by God but rather were destroyed, as all three Abrahamic faiths say.

    Psychologists say that gays is a genes thing… that it is inherited or its something we were born as? what does Islam say about this? Why are people gay according to Islam?

    Similarly, Islam does not recognize such relations as anything valid. Yet Islam grants every person under the sun dignity and liberty as long as they do not exercise them at the expense of the dignity and liberty of the society at large including unnatural acts whether between couples of the same sex or between unmarried men and women as in the case of fornication and adultery.

    Hajj Gibril

    -Edited. Pls provide the source/link for the information here and not cut/paste. Pls add a comment with the link and we’ll update this comment

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    • R

      This is just incorrect. It has not been proven that homosexuality is genetic. Moreover, there is more evidence to suggest that it is through nurture not nature that homosexuality occurs. But none of this is conclusive.

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  35. AbdulRahman

    I’ve always thought the increase of homosexuality in today’s world was partly because of liberal propaganda saying it’s okay.
    Let me explain: Muslim scholars since forever have talked about lowering the gaze from little boys who still have no beards. Why? Because they knew that Shaitan could make them seem attractive, so the “urges” were spoken of by our scholars of old.

    Where does the liberal propaganda come in? Well, a young lad feels the urge to stare at a handsome friend of his, an image enters his mind of him taking it a step further, why would he fight these urges if it’s okay, if it’s normal, if there’s nothing wrong with having these tendencies. He will not fight it and he will come to the conclusion that he “is gay”, or bisexual at the least.
    I think in our modern world with our understanding of Psychology (which in itself is commendable, I’m a fan of psychology myself!), we tend to forget about Shaitan and his whisperings.

    Brother Taahir’s situation seems to be totally different though, I ask Allah to bless him and protect him and grant him the happiness he wishes for. What you are going through seems to be indeed difficult, I cannot understand your particular situation per se since I have not been through it, and I don’t believe in hypotheticals, but many of us go through our own trials and tribulations and through that we can relate. I ask Allah to end your trials. Ameen.

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  36. Dawud Israel

    Shukran wa jazaka Allahu khayran for breakting this taboo! Me and Haytham discussed this a while…

    I’ve been meaning to write on this topic as well…I’ve come across more than a few brothers in this scenario. But, they are practicing Muslims and keep it a secret.
    Warning: Mature content

    A few things I wanted to run through briefly. If maybe, there can be a follow-up post on this–like resources for homosexuality?

    1) Very few people are either STRICTLY homosexual or heterosexual…many heterosexuals engage in homosexual acts. I sometimes get the feeling some single brothers become gay just out of not being able to marry. In this case, I think we need to be realistic and at some level, allow the genders to mix, similar to how it was in the days of the Sunnah…see no. 3 for this.

    2) It would be worth taking a look at the Hadith on the “mukhanath” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhannathun

    3) Homosexuality, is still big in the Muslim world. Some even go as far as describing Saudi Arabia as “Gay Heaven” because of the excessive gender segregation. It also touches on how homosexuality was dealt with in the past by Muslims. See here for a lengthy article: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200705/gay-saudi-arabia/4

    4) There are resources and some Yahoo Groups for Muslims who want to preserve their deen, despite their homosexual urges. I’ll post some later on but here is one: http://askunclebilal.blogspot.com/

    5) Some speculate some of the ayahs in the Quran referring to young boys like pearls is meant for homosexuals…I think, Sh. Yasir Qadhi hit the point: It’s irrelevant, the Shariah does not change.


    In any case, just as Allah can cause someone to change from a kaafir to a Muslim–he can change a homosexual into a heterosexual!

    Baraka Allahu feek.

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  37. Dawud Israel

    Muslim007 is right. I remember SH. YQ suggesting how we shouldn’t attack homosexuals because the same rights that allow them to be as they are, is what allows Muslims to practice Islam.

    But, if you actually did some hardcore research (at least here in my university) the homosexuals are given waaayyy more funding and they are favored much more by the non-Muslim community. At my university, these homosexuals moved in next door to our prayer area–they have books on sex-play, lubrication oil and condoms…

    Sooner or later, we have to take a definite stand on this issue. Even the brothers I talked to who have these homosexual urges are harsher on it than Shaykh Yasir Qadhi. They know there is no compromise in the deen. Ever. Period.

    The nafs is the nafs. We should not feel helpless when it comes to this topic and think that perhaps, the Shariah might be weak. It isn’t.

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  38. Ibn Mikdad

    “It’s interesting that separation of sexes is provided as an example, when there have been quite a few scandalous lesbian cases at the infamous Madrassa i live by in America. I met some of the girls who have committed such acts and they claim that the separation of sexes has distorted their sexual orientation, and they feel that love can only truly be found by another woman.”

    And how exactly would they know that it was only the separation of sexes that made them feel something towards the same sex? Sex separation does not mean sending women to a different planet never to see man again, so I wonder how exactly can it instigate such a drastic change?

    If it has such a daunting effect on the sexual orientation, than there should be more homosexuality and lesbianism in Islamic societies (more sex separation) than in Western countries (almost no sex separation); but that’s not the case, right? Also, blaming the separation of sexes for the change of the sexual orientation actually can provide an argument against the (mostly liberal, and presumably your) view that same-sex attraction is “natural”, i.e. predisposed, and for the view that it is a “‘nurtured’ mental disease” as you called it.

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  39. Abu Nurah

    As-Salaamu Alaykum,

    Thanks to the Sheikh for raising this importaint issue and to the brothers and sisters for their thoughtful comments. Allah knows best what the cause is, but without a doubt it is a trial for those afflicted by it, just as any number of illnesses both physical and psychological are trials for those who suffer through them. Such is the life of this temporary world; surely Allah is Most Just and may He grant a high place in Jenna to those who have these desires and do not act on them.

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  40. Siraaj

    Salaam alaykum Shaykh Yasir,

    Just thinking about homosexuality as it appears in the US vs how it appears in, say, Saudi, or in the prison population – it seems there can be multiple factors which bring it about, and not one cause. In some cases, it’s abuse, in other cases, segregation from the opposite gender. I’ve seen some documentaries on jail as well where men choose homosexuality for their jail term, but once out return to heterosexual lifestyles. I also note that homosexuality, whether among humans or in nature, tends to be the minority sexual preference. And as brother Taahir demonstrates, in some cases, we don’t even know the cause, though he is born on the pure fitrah.

    Given this, when looking at the people of Lut, particularly the men, it seems like ALL of them were in on it, not just pockets of people. This seems to imply that for one reason or another, even though people may have been attracted to women and could have had relationships with them, they chose men instead (for whatever perverted reason), and this was why they were all destroyed. Meaning, they could have chosen to be better, but it appears that they didn’t want to be “pure” as mentioned in the Qur’aan.

    Is it conceivable then that the advice towards the homosexual should depend upon the cause of the homosexuality? Like, if one was doing so because they are bisexual and experimenting, or because their options were severely restricted, that they be advised to be patient and try to find a spouse and not return to the behavior, whereas those who only incline towards homosexuality with no preference for heterosexuality (similar to the person, in a sense, with low sex drive) be advised with something else, since they don’t seem to fit in the category of the people of Lut in terms of the cause of the behavior?

    Siraaj

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  41. student

    Sh. Yasir and MuslimMatters, may Allah reward you for shedding light on this issue.

    Br. Siraaj, I find your suggestion sensible: suggest marriage for those who are confident that they can love a spouse and have desire and sexual relations, but not for someone who will be repulsed by sex and won’t be able to satisfy the spouse’s physical and emotional needs.

    Also, in addition to making dua, perhaps other ibaadaat can be encouraged, such as fasting, reading and memorizing Qur’an, tahajjud, etc. And staying away from things which one finds increases homosexual desires and arousal, such as TV or the Internet. Ultimately, such measures may not eliminate the desire completely, so from that perspective they might be seen as an incomplete solution.

    Atif mentioned “celibate marriage (nikah kitaba).” What is the fiqh regarding this? Perhaps one could marry with someone of the opposite sex who is not interested in sexual relations. For example, a brother and sister who are both facing this test can marry each other. This sounds strange, but the point would be for all of the other benefits of marriage apart from sexual relations and children: to have someone to lean on, to confide in, to support each other, to grow together, and so on. This might be difficult without the love that is related to sexual desire, but maybe not. All of this might be better with living alone.

    Finally, it is worth reminding a person facing this test not to blame themselves and to lose self-esteem, but rather to have hope in Allah’s mercy and to gain self-esteem by reminding themselves that they are being rewarded every day for struggling and winning their daily battle.

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    • gay muslim

      Thank you very much for your comment. It will help me to keep living my life as Allah has gifted me. I know he knows the reason why he created me with this urges and then fobidden me to act on it.

      I have been weak, and failed this test in many occations. I have acted this sin. I hope this site and guidens from you muslim brothers and sisters will help me to get on the right track.

      innshallah

      may allah bless you

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  42. AsimG

    Asalaamu Alaykum,

    Ya Allah, there is so much to be said, I don’t even know if I can say it all.

    First, such articles as these are awesome (May Allah reward Shaykh Yasir), but it is not enough.

    Years ago I would have been ecstatic for someone like Shaykh Yasir to write such an article, but sadly now it is just a drop in the bucket.

    The “other side”, which advocates/normalizes homosexuality, has become so sophisticated and influential yet we are still in the acknowledgement phase (and even that is taboo).

    While they are taking over academia and writing best seller books, we are making “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” jokes, thinking this will somehow circumvent homosexuality.

    But it is not about them. The pro-gay movement in itself is not significant, it is the fact that they are no shaykhs/imams with sophisticated understanding of this issue that are out there helping these Muslims. which leaves the gay movement to supply all the answers.

    Those Muslims who are fortunate enough to get past the brainwashing gauntlet of the gay movement are still not out of the woods.

    They can’t ask help from their family, friends or imams…so where do they go?
    The Christians!
    I’ve talked to brothers who have gone to Christian retreats to help them deal with homosexuality, but the emphasis on “loving Jesus” and that he “died for our sins” as the solution and source of strength against desires ends up confusing the Muslims even more and brings them closer to an even bigger sin…shirk!

    (And some of their “therapies” are extremely weird such as ice baths….)

    The Muslim blogs and groups that actually do exist are extremely flawed, inefficient and sometimes even unIslamic.
    The one link given in these comments is to Uncle Bilal’s blog and he has ONE post, this speaks volumes to where we are at.

    But this is not like the Palestinian issue or other major problems facing the ummah, there ARE solutions that every single one of us can do.

    1. Have healthy family relationships.
    A significant number (but not all) of homosexuals had difficulties in their childhood. From confused gender roles, absent father/mother, lack of communication to more serious issues such as domestic violence, child abuse and even molestation (especially with uncles/aunts).

    2. Have open communication
    The lonliness factor is HUGE.
    All your friends/family should be able to trust and confide in you and ask for your help. IF a brother or sister tells you about their urges DO NOT JUDGE THEM OR TREAT THEM DIFFERENTLY! Do not think yourself a psychologist that can diagnose solutions to their urges…it won’t work.
    Instead, be there for them and help them stay away from sins that come about from these urges.

    3. Establish brotherhood/sisterhood
    Expand your circle of friends and invite those quiet brothers and sisters in the corner. Go out to dinner, play some volleyball and have fun!
    Do not underestimate this step. Good Muslim friends can go a long way

    Again a lot more needs to be said, but I have no idea how to umm “textualize: all the thoughts/ideas in my head right now.

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  43. AsimG

    My take on celibacy:

    This is not an either or situation. No person, not even a “bisexual”, should go into marriage without counseling (although where to find such counselors is another problem all together).
    There is too much sexual fitnah today for us to think marriage will suffice to conquer these urges and I know too many people who have tried this route and failed.

    At the same time, I do think marriage is the ultimate goal. We as humans have a need for intimate relationships and it is not easily ignored.

    For a few, maybe marriage can never be the answer, but for many marriage is the goal…just not right away.

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  44. AnnaUkhteefiAllah

    mashallah, a great and much needed article.

    I agree that there can be a multiplicity of factors contributing to homosexuality. Environment can play a big part. For example, in some women’s colleges, there is a certain culture of lesbianism and ‘experimenting’ because that is the only outlet for expressing their desires but once these women leave these colleges and go to the real world, they become heterosexual once again.

    One solution is to make more halal outlets for these desires, i.e. make marriage early an option!

    Just imagine if all parents raised their kids with this option of getting married after high school / during college years and raised them with that certain maturity level. Just imagine if kids had proper role models in parents in how beneficial marriage can be for individuals and society as a whole.

    Just because there is a tendency towards homosexuality in gender segregated environments doesn’t mean we should condemn such environments. No, Allah has made it clear in the Qur’aan and sunnah of Nabi (salallahu ‘elayhi waSalam) that we should have a certain demeanor with the opposite gender, be modest, lower our gaze, etc.

    HOWEVER, I think we need to be careful of not ‘isolating’ ourselves totally from the ‘other’ gender. When we make them into an ‘other’ and think it’s taboo to even mention your wife’s name in public, be involved with Islamic events, etc. and get TOO close to our own gender (i.e. sisters having dance parties and they wear provocative clothing / belly dance / listen to music (which is haram, for a reason) ) then these things are more possible.

    and Allaah knows best

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  45. B

    And so, when we have been bombarded with sexual images all the time, that which is naturally lustful loses its erotic nature. This then leads to being attracted to unnatural attractions. The bar for ’sexual titillation’ rises higher and higher. It also explains certain sexual habits that are becoming more predominant between couples. While these habits might be halal and mubah in and of themselves, it does make us pause when we realize that people before us would disdain such practices and even consider some of them to be perverse. Once again, I reiterate that these practices might be halal, but the whole emphasis on sexual toys, sexual games, certain fetishes, and role playing, even between couples, is indicative of this sexually charged world we live in. While these matters are halal, it does show that we are not satisfied with what is natural. Our desires become increasingly insatiable.

    “Sex toys” are mentioned in Majmoo’ al Fatawaa (Ibn Taymiyyah). I also came across an Arabic book (alrawd alaatir fee nazaahat alkhatir) dated back to the 900H written by someone who seems to be a Muslim mentioning these very acts and items that you speak of. Maybe Muslims (and the whole world) were affected by the sexual repression of the Victorian era, so much that now these same acts and items are considered “over the top”. I was shocked myself when I read the Majmoo alfatawaa and found that fatwa by Ibn Taymiyyah, never had I imagined that they had such items back then . . so yeah.

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  46. AsimG

    Question: Is isolation really a cause of homosexuality?

    I think it is not.

    Rather, it has to do with a miseducation/misunderstanding of sex and sources of fitnah such as tv, movies and the internet.

    I know a lot of desi parents don’t like talking about the facts of life to their children (I learned from my non-Muslim neighbor), but this is not healthy.
    When you introduce sex, you can set limitations and correct understandings from the start.

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  47. ALGEBRA

    @AnnaUkhteefiAllah

    aslamu-alaikum:
    I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID………….. SO RIGHT……………WITH EVERY ONE OF YOUR POINTS.

    In addition, parents do need to talk to children about sex when they get balig. I thought that was understood when one gets balig, parents tell you about so many things like how to keep oneself clean, and cutting of hair, and taking ghusl, etc. that comes into islamic teaching given to both boys and girls when they reach of age of being balig(puberty). It is a part of life.

    Parents themselves don’t teach there kids about the basics of Islam and than get dumbfounded when there child brings up sexuality later.

    I mean In islam this topic should be discussed openly with a matter of fact attitude. That is the responsibility of parents and Islam teaches us that as well. If most parents knew Islam in the first place……….
    I remember my grandmother, yes grandmother, taught us(the girls) about proper way of doing ghusl and everything in a matter of fact way when we reached puberty………… she didn’t make sex sound like some perverted thing. Actually it was a part of growing up and a part of Islamic way of life and she told us the limitations, need, and allowances according to Islam.
    Actually Islam teaches us those things………… It has sollutions to everything, we just think that it can’t some of our questions but trust me it has answers to everything and we need to get back to its teachings and guidance.

    In islam, dancing with loud music is forbidden anyway……… MUSIC Hardens the Heart…… and anything to do with music is haram and i know a lot of people are going to give me hadith about Hazrat Aisha (ra) watching the Abysinnians perform exercises but it was not like entertainment today………………. Nothing like today. There is a reason, which we may understand to stay away from music and other fahishat…………. these things can lead to things that are wrong and not according to our fitrah. We should’nt be dancing with women in ladies only gatherings becaause some gathering do have women dressed very provacatively and that is becoming habit in some muslim communities………….
    salam

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  48. Abû Mûsâ Al-Ḥabashî

    Coincidentally, I attended a workshop yesterday given by a Muslim psychologist about child sex abuse and he said that it is a fact that it is very possible that a homosexual be rehabilitated to being heterosexual by getting married and engaging in relations with his wife. In fact, he said that the more the homosexual does this, the more he will be “reprogrammed”. He also mentioned many of the same points mentioned in the above blog entry.

    Re: Saudi Arabian youth,
    It’s a myth to believe that many of these youth have “never seen a non-relative woman in their life”. They see it through their satellite televisions and the internet and therefore have the sexual energy pent up in them. I think that, coupled with the difficulty in getting married, explains why homosexual activity exists there (although I would be very interested in seeing statistics behind the claims that it is very high there relative to the West).

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  49. Ibn Mikdad

    “For example, in some women’s colleges, there is a certain culture of lesbianism and ‘experimenting’ because that is the only outlet for expressing their desires but once these women leave these colleges and go to the real world, they become heterosexual once again.”

    Which means that if the colleges were mixed, there would probably be unlawful heterosexual sex, and still no one could guarantee that they would not try “experimenting” with the same sex. And if they were (theoretically speaking) completely isolated, all alone, they would find another way of satisfying their desires (masturbation, obviously). The point is that the environment is of little importance here, it’s about someones attitude to sex and dealing with sexual urges. And that attitude, unfortunately, seems to be that these urges should not be controlled and must be satisfied by any means available.

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  50. Hassan

    Can magic or jinn possession cause homosexual tendencies in some cases? If yes, then such cases can be dealt accordingly.

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  51. Taleb Haq

    Salam,

    It is great to see that mainstream Muslim speakers are speaking about this topic in a proper manner, alhamdulillah. On the above linked to blog we have dealt with this issue quite extensively. For the brothers and sisters who are dealing with this issue we also have a yahoo support group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle

    With regards to the issue of marriage, there are many on the group who have actually married and have families and so we need to be asking ourselves how exactly are we going to psychologically be hurting our partners. same-sex attractions are very much a developmental psychological issue and CAN be dealt with. There are some that go through professional therapy and others who, through the support of brothers and sisters, can get to a point where they are dealing with it well to the point that they can get married and have a family…this is not a far off possibility and is a reality for many alhamdulillah.

    To Hassan: This is not a jinn possession or a magic issue, wallahu a’lam. This can lead to some very dangerous practices that have nothing to do with Islam that can lead families to destroy their children’s lives and sometimes leads them away from Islam.

    Salam

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  52. Sister Conviction2Change

    Salam dear brothers and sisters,

    I will firstly introduce myself as a sister who has “homosexual urges”. I do not call myself a homosexual, lesbian, gay, bisexual, or any of those terms. I call myself, and I am, a Muslimah battling same sex attractions (SSA). I do believe Allah has chosen me, hand-picked me, for such a test. (So contrary to what ALGEBRA said in the beginning of the comments, I do believe Allah tests us with this. I am not angry at Him for this. He has wisdom in all that He does. I am grateful for having SSA as it has made me a stronger Muslim.)

    I am also on the very beneficial support group that brother Taleb Haq has posted up, Straight Struggle. I suggest all brothers and sisters who also wish to combat their desires for the sake of Allah and to live a better lifestyle to join the group.

    I have not yet read through all of the comments, but I would like to comment on what Sh. Yasir wrote first:
    Shaykh, may Allah reward you for the words you have written and the brothers and sisters you have helped by Allah’s will by writing this article. I am an avid listener of your lectures, goer to your events, and reader of Muslim Matters. To finally see an article like this “come out” :) is heart warming and comforting for someone who has struggled with this in silence and now a forum has opened up about this issue in public.

    Shaykh, as I have done a lot of research on this topic from the perspective of wanting to rid myself of these desires (and I would like to add there is a lot of material out there, mainly written by non-Muslims, about how to overcome SSA) I would like to comment on and refine a point that you made in the article.

    You said your theory is how sexual images are bombarding our minds in the society, day and age that we live in. You are correct, but there is also a greater reason. SSA is due to sexual reasons but more due to emotional reasons. Every person you will ever meet who is struggling with SSA (or even openly gay) has emotional issues he or she is embedded with. SSA is not a sexual problem at all really. It is emotional. This is a long topic though but just to brush the surface: You will notice people with SSA do not always have good relationships with their parents, they probably identified with the opposite gender at a young age, they might’ve been repelled by their same gender at a young age, they may have been sexually molested/abused at some point in their lives, they might have grown up in physically abusive homes, they probably have insecurities deeply routed in how unsafe they feel at home or around others of the opposite sex, and the list goes on. There is so much to be said on these topics and it is all out there for those who wish to find them.

    Another point I would like to emphasize is that marriage is not the solution, but it is PART of the solution for sure. Marriage is very important and should be worked on attaining, whether or not one struggles with SSA, as it is a completion of half of our faith. It should not be put off, but it should also be realized that it should not be seen as the sole solution. There is a lot more emotionally that one needs to work on in combination with taking steps like getting married.

    Also in response to calihijabi, dear sister I completely understand how you feel. The fact of the matter is that it is less common to hear of women struggling with this. My theories of why this is true are that (1) we do not “come out” and tell people we even have these problems with our sexuality and (2) in general, I think Muslim women have more readily turned towards accepting a lesbian identity and therefore do not even care to battle their urges. I am always looking around for other sisters who hold my perspective so that we may build a strong united front so that we may support other sisters. I have found a few, and of course we are scatted over the globe, but I am confident others will slowly join us and we can have more of a voice one day insha Allah.

    On that note, if anyone has any questions or is seeking advice from a sister, you can always email me at conviction2change@gmail.com. I am open to getting messages from complete “strangers” and don’t mind it. To me, you’re not strangers, you’re my brothers and sisters in Islam.

    As a side note, I created my email address a year ago when I joined the Straight Struggle support group. I advise everyone who is struggling with SSA to join it as well as it has helped me, by the will of Allah, come a long way. A little more than a year ago I was suicidal, getting addicted to porn, and even wanted to leave Islam. Today, I am happy I have this test, grateful Allah guided me away from the edge, and confident that I will succeed in my test.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change
    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle

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    • Tarek

      thank you sister for the great words, may allah bless you!! i really love the part where you said Allah handpicked you! gave me a feeling i am still worthy!

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  53. traditionalrebel

    Assalaamalaykumwarathmatullhabrakthuhu

    While i admire the attempt to address this issue I have a few points of concern:

    With all respect, I believe the author hypothesizing causations for homosexuality highly discredits him. There is no statical information or sound proof or correlation for these assumptions. It is simply a distraction. In addition, the author doesn’t seem to cite anything nor seem to have formal learning in such areas such as gender studies or social sciences, nor should he attempt to.

    Another issue I have is that the author recommends getting married right away. *Women are not disposable*–they are human beings who deserved to be loved and in general have the inclination that when a marriage isn’t going right to blame themselves. If you are not attracted to your spouse whether male or female you could traumatize, and give them scars.

    Also, homosexuality is a trial. The same way poverty, or the color of your skin can be a trial. Why was there no mention of fasting?

    And for those interested in “healing” themselves, why was there no mention of different theories and counselings?

    Why was there no mention of lesbianism, must females be disenfranchised even in Islamic online advice? [Females= 50% of the population!]

    Also, in the mention of the title I was hoping that the author would talk about the adab dealing with homosexual peers in our diverse society.

    May Allah swt forgive me if I seemed harsh or lacked adab while I listed these concerns [and yes, I have even more], but the internet also has it’s own commutative limitations.

    And Allah (swt) Knows Best
    Peace

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    • Amad

      From a pure fiqhi point of view, isn’t lesbianism considered less sinful than male homosexuality, in terms of the sin and state punishment as well? Just a question.

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  54. Farhan

    may Allah help our brothers and sisters who are going through this

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  55. Turquoise

    I think this problem can be a possible byproduct of delaying marriage.

    I had a Christian friend in college who got married when she was 22. Her husband had not completed his education, but together they could sustain a decent living. They had simple furniture and didn’t mind it at all. (She didn’t even have a diamond ring, but a simpler one of precious stones)

    Looking at her situation I reflected on the hassles our culture places on marriages and the requirements we have that are in the long run frustrating our youth and causing such problems. So, have earlier marriages, less sexual frustration, because as they say prevention is still the best medicine…

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    • aj

      I don’t know if earlier marriages is a solution because although they maybe physically ready many people that age are not mentally ready and are not ‘mature’ enough for marriage so I don’t know if encouraging early marriage is a good idea

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  56. john r

    homosexuals have never have been found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a brother, friend, doctor, counselor,scientist,pastor,soldier,attorney,etc.

    homosexuals dont love less, are not less committed, not less devoted, not less caring than heterosexuals. all these are factors of healthy marriage.

    your reasoning for denying marriage is without any evidence. and there is no such thing as seperate but equal.

    because the mandate of the american’s laws for equal protection for all in the essence of the pursuit to life, liberty, and happiness, then gays must be allowed to marry.

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  57. Zaynab

    Please everyone check out

    http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/

    These brothers and sisters are doing a wonderful job. The brother who runs the blog does an amazing job of deconstructing the issue of having same-sex attraction and remaining within the Laws of Allah (swt).

    We should definitely keep all of our struggling brothers and sisters in our du’aa. May Allah make it easy for them and grant them Jannah, ameen.

    -Editor’s note: The link has been provided already. In fact, one of the site’s admin has added a comment here. I would request that folks read the comments first inshallah.

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  58. AnonyMouse

    IslamQ&A on lesbianism
    Since it doesn’t mention the hadd punishment usually associated w/ sodomy/ male homosexuality (throwing them off a wall/ cliff/ whatever), you may well be right. Although, that gives rise to other questions about why that’s so…

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  59. Li

    Jazzak Allahu Khairan for bringing this issue up. This is definitely not something to be swept under the carpet.
    I really feel that more brothers and sisters should be made aware of this issue at hand.
    More often than not, most of us are quick to jump to conclusions without realizing that Islam is the perfect religion and no one is easily condemned to hell just like that.
    Thank you for pointing out to us that:

    1. If Allah has tested you in this manner, then that is a part of your test and trial,
    2. ‘And Allah does not burden a soul with more than it can bear.’
    3. … know that this would constitute a sin. Yes, a major sin, and one that most people would be disgusted by, but realize that it is a sin alone and not kufr. Hence, even acting upon it and committing a major sin does not expel you from the fold of Islam.
    4. put your trust in Allah and continue making du’a to Him,

    Of course as Sh. Yasir mentioned, this does not mean that we should condone, encourage or justify this. But rather, realize that as there are many issues that may attack an individual, we should offer support and make dua’ for our brothers and sisters and not shun them.

    May Allah guide all of us to the straight path, keep us patient, forgive us for our sins and grant us the highest levels of Jannah. Ameen.

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  60. medinese

    Assalamu Alaikum Sister Conviction2Change,

    Your comment truly touched me, unlike a previous one by ‘Taher’ whose skepticism struck me (but not many others, so I could be wrong) of the Islamic view on homosexuality. I have never never understood how ppl can be homosexual and until recently I thought that it was strictly a choice. Now I know that is not
    necessarily the case for all ppl. But I do believe that the vast majority of women who have SSA are bi, and this is because I live in the KSA, and know (or heard of) lots of girls who experimented with other girls but end up getting married with no problem. Many of them view it as completely normal. As for men, I think
    that though many are bi, there is a higher percentage of men who are not attracted to women than women who are not attracted to men.
    In any case I fully believe that Allah has the power to help them IF THEY MAKE THE INTENTION TO CHANGE AND STRUGGLE FOR HIS SAKE. I think its very very sad to read comments like ‘O whyyyyyyy
    did Allah create me this way. Its not faaaaaaaaaaair.’ May Allah forgive me, I can not relate in any way, but I feel that living with SSA is similar to living with
    a physical impairment like one arm or an inability to hear, for example. You have to fight, you WILL struggle, but I think living with this very real struggle on a
    day to day basis will result in a Muslim much much stronger than your average joe (or Joann).

    May Allah reward you immensely and keep you steady on his path.

    Your sister from the city of the Prophet (Medinah)

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  61. me, too

    I’m a Muslim woman that struggles with same sex attractions and in my experience, you cannot talk about these issues safely with anyone in the Muslim community other than those with the same tendencies. This is a double-edged sword, the ability to talk openly and honestly with someone who understands and the social support is invaluable but there is also the added risk of mutual attraction.

    For some marriage is a realistic option, for others it is not. Celibacy is an option, but a difficult one. Others give in to their desires.

    One thing, I would like to mention is that much of information available about homosexuality from Muslim sources, denigrates and/or alienates Muslims with same sex attractions from their faith. It is this attitude and stigma, which prevents many from coming forward to seek out help and may lead them to turn to non-Muslim sources or to leave their faith completely.

    Beside expressions of sympathy, one real way to help those of us dealing with this issue is to stand up to such hateful and harmful talk about people with such attractions, your brothers and sisters. Shaykh Yasir is to be commended for speaking about the issue with such sensitivity in his article, yet I personally have heard him make stridently anti-gay remarks in class and it is precisely these remarks and attitudes, which cause immeasurable harm to our Muslim brothers and sisters and may alienate them from their faith. Don’t think of us as the other, we are right here, reading Muslim Matters, attending AlMaghrib seminars, memorizing Quran, learning Arabic, fasting, trying to improve ourselves and learn our deen, praying next to you, etc.

    Separating out the Islamic viewpoint from our own personal biases is important and choosing our words carefully to avoid inadvertently harming other Muslims is also important. More than expressing sympathy for people with same sex attractions, stand up to the hate speech and bigotry and vitriol from the minbars and from friends and families against Muslims that struggle with their sexuality.

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  62. me, too

    I will take it as my duty as well, ya Shaykh. May Allah reward with goodness. I always look forward to attending your classes.

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  63. Yasir Qadhi

    Shaykh Yasir is to be commended for speaking about the issue with such sensitivity in his article, yet I personally have heard him make stridently anti-gay remarks in class and it is precisely these remarks and attitudes, which cause immeasurable harm to our Muslim brothers and sisters and may alienate them from their faith. Don’t think of us as the other, we are right here, reading Muslim Matters, attending AlMaghrib seminars, memorizing Quran, learning Arabic, fasting, trying to improve ourselves and learn our deen, praying next to you, etc.

    You’re absolutely right, I have at times allowed such feelings to show in crude jokes. Jazak Allah for pointing this out and I will try my best to ensure this does not happen again. Also, please take it as your duty to correct such attitudes (via private comments) and, at least from my side, it will be taken very positively.

    Yasir

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    • Ayman

      Assalamulaikum,

      Mashallah, that’s very admirable and noble of you Shaykh Yasir Qadhi–for admitting your mistakes without hesitation.

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  64. Rasheed Eldin

    As-salamu ‘alaikum,

    On Amad’s question about lesbianism, I could mention to you what Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi said in one interview which was subsequently chopped up and part-translated by MEMRI for the amusement of Islam-haters. Here is the full (Arabic) transcript from Al-Jazeera, and the full video is available there too:
    http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E3A7EEFB-4016-485A-8D6A-7AA9FD75CBD9.htm

    He stated that “Lesbian activity is a lighter matter than homosexual sodomy in practical terms.” He recounted a hadith in which Ma’iz ibn Malik came to the Prophet (peace be on him) and confessed to zina (unlawful sex), asking him to enact the prescribed punishment upon him. The Prophet, from his mercy, said “No, perhaps you didn’t touch her, perhaps you only kissed her, perhaps…” – but the man insisted that he had committed the major sin, which is defined and has the prescribed punishment according to that definition. So, Sheikh Qaradawi said, lesbian activity can be considered like these precursors to fornication, which is distinct from the act of sodomy between men.

    For more discussion on that interview, please see my post here:
    http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/2006/06/27/are-gays-perverts/

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  65. Gohar

    I don’t see how anyone can expect never to have unnatural thoughts. Nearly every man has fantasized about rape, as well as about relations with their close female family members. Being weird is part of growing up.

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    • N

      Eewww, I will have to disagree with you. I don’t think every man fantasizes rape or having sexual relationship with his siblings. That’s just sick.

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  66. AsimG

    ^But the problem is when those “weird thoughts” are the only thoughts and they don’t go away…

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  67. Gohar

    But there’s also another problem of people catastrophizing any abnormal thought that goes through their mind, who then begin to make illogical conclusions based on that, and therefore worry unnecessarily.

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  68. Anonymous

    May Allah reward you brother…I’m glad that finally a scholar has taken the proper approach to answer this question. I’m battling same-sex urges, and Insha’Allah when I overcome them I will try to help other Muslims in this situation.

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  69. Anonymous

    “Me too”:

    if u havent joined already, i suggest u to join http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle …..the sisters and bros on the group r amaazing and provide tremendous support for those struggling with same-sex attraction (ssa)…..its helped me a lot w. battling ssa & im sure ull find it helpful as well Insha’Allah :)

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  70. me, too

    @ Anonymous: I joined the group in the past but left because I didn’t find it beneficial.

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  71. Sister Conviction2Change

    Salam dear sister me,too

    I would like to commend you on how much you have been struggling and still have not caved in like so many others in your position have and continue to do so every day. I’m in your shoes so I know how you feel. I know how tempting it must be for you. What I do is that I constantly remind myself of how much I can please Allah with this and how displeasing it would be to Him if I were to ever act upon it. It helps. :)

    I understand the Straight Struggle group didn’t work out for you. That’s fine, it doesn’t for everyone. We’re all different despite this one common thread we all have embedded in us. So my suggestion is perhaps talking to sisters only on the side? We’re actually thinking of starting a sisters only group just like Straight Struggle. But until then some sisters and I do correspond with each other on the side to help each other out, encourage each other, and help each other get closer to Allah. If you ever want to, send me an email at my below address and we would be more than happy to include you as well.

    As for the people in the community who are not receptive to you, know that those people are not worthy of your wonderful presence. If they fail to try to understand who you are (and you are quite simply a Muslimah!) then forget them. But rest assured there are MANY other straight Muslims out there who are willing to understand. We just have to find them. Personally, I’ve told about 7 Muslims now who support me. They exist. As for the shaykhs, I just give them their 70 due excuses and move on with my day praying that Allah eliminates further ignorance from our scholars. I think the fact that Shaykh Yasir wrote this article shows that some, such as himself, are truly trying to connect with a dark corner of the Muslim community that has been suppressed and silenced for so long. May Allah reward him and others like him.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change
    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle

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  72. ALGEBRA

    Aslamu-alaikum:
    I really believe that this post needs to be closed now. People that needed help on this blog overcoming their negative thoughts have found another blog like the one above to voice their grievances etc.

    The fact that there are groups being formed to talk about this subject is appalling to me. HOMOSEXUALITY IN EVERY WAY IS WRONG AND IT IS A SIN TO ACT ON IT. IT IS A GRAVE SIN……………… talking about it over and over again and like forming a group is NOT THE SOLUTION…………….Find out what is missing in your lives like closeness to ALLAH and his PROPHET(PBUH)…………..

    Go ask Allah for help and FORGIVENESS in every way……………. SERIOUSLY…………………

    even heterosexuals feel frustrated but they are NOT suppose to form groups in which they are suppose to talk about their attraction for each other on a constant basis. I think it defeats the purpose of keeping yourself AWAY from fitna when you are trying to go toward it and trying to find solace in each other rather than finding SOLACE IN ALLAH……………….

    I believe talking about it in groups is just manifesting it to stay longer……………….
    and not really solving the problem…………..and yes it is a problem………….. If one has bad thoughts they are suppose to say Auzu billahi………..etc. to keep the shaytan away…………. make repentance, make salat, keep away from the very things that bring those thoughts to you………….. seriously NOT FORM GROUPS TO DISCUSS THE MATTER FURTHER>…………………….
    YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT FROM YOUR HEART>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WORK ON CHANGING YOUR HEART AND ASK ALLAH FOR THAT………………………. ALLAH WILL HELP………………. but the way some of you on this blog are going about it is TOTALLY CONTRARY to what ALLAH’s LAW and GUIDANCE…………….
    Go talk in PRIVATE TO SHAYKS and i believe the SHAYKS need to give you ISLAMIC GUIDANCE and i am sure it is found in the QURAN and SUNNAH………………. STAY AWAY FROM EACH OTHER IF THAT IS YOUR WEAKNESS……………..
    salam

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  73. Bahader

    Sister Conviction2Change you said in your previous post that you were addicted to porn and so on..

    Maybe Allah punished you with that kind of feelings because of your previous sins or He test you so that you become pure?

    I don’t know WHY I am getting the feeling that homosexuality is being tolerated in this discussion… But Allah and His prophet and the saahaba were very very harsh and strict on this topic.

    If you’re guy then pray to Allah.. As long as you don’t turn your feeling into action.

    Try to get married, don’t denounce it JUST because you don’t feel attraction towards women (opposite for sisters.. i.e. men)

    Force the attraction instead!!

    Man.. May Allah help you and us!

    (I live in Sweden and English is not my native language.. so please excuse me for my poor grammar)

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  74. Ibn Mikdad

    “I don’t know WHY I am getting the feeling that homosexuality is being tolerated in this discussion”

    You get the wrong impression. Brothers and sisters who feel same-sex attraction come to write here exactly because they do not tolerate these feelings, they want to get rid of them. Others recognize that they cannot be blamed for anything as long as their attitude to such feelings is correct and they restrain themselves, and try to give them brotherly advice, for the sake of Allah, to help them deal with this evil. No tolerance for evil here, just brotherly love and kindness for the sake of Allah.

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  75. tahir

    my point of view is that topics like these should not be discussed so openly. too much debate it also harmful.
    its a sin full stop, those that are plagued with such urges should repent sincerely and get married if single.
    do not discuss your sin with others as to speak about sin is bad, conceal what Allah has concealed.

    best remedy is prayer in the last hours if the night and sayeeda istaghphar.. also do haj or umrah and insha-Allah that trip will help you change.

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    • Ayman

      Assalamulaikum,

      I’m sorry, however, you are missing the problem, which is why the solution you have provided is incomplete. I suggest you read the comments above which elaborate upon the potential harms you may bring upon yourself and particularly another, if you get married with homosexual desires. Thus, this is an issue that needs to be addressed. Hiding it will only cause more harm by allowing the problem to persist in the shadows.

      Furthermore, speaking about sin in the context of gloating or bragging, or causing corruption to enter the public sphere is haraam. However, speaking about the occurrence or presence of sinful behaviour which affects many, for the purpose of finding a solution is not. If you argue that it is, please bring some proof. More importantly, is speaking about homosexual urges a sin? Acting upon such urges may be a sin, but having them certainly is not.

      Finally, read brother Taahir’s comment and notice how his unique situation needs to be addressed in an unique way. The generalized solution you have provided may not necessarily “change” (i.e. create an attraction for the opposite gender) for such situations, although it will Inshallah improve it.

      Salaam,

      Ayman

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  76. Ibn Mikdad

    “too much debate it also harmful.”

    Why?

    “do not discuss your sin with others as to speak about sin is bad”

    What is a sin?

    “its a sin full stop, those that are plagued with such urges should repent sincerely and get married if single.”

    Would you marry a woman who is attracted to the same sex? How can you condemn people for something that, for all purposes, seems to be out of their control, and then tell them them to get married? If everyone had your attitude, even if they wanted to get married, they wouldn’t be able to, because they would be rejected.

    I believe that you are sincere and that you despise sin for the sake of Allah, but to deal with evil we first must understand it and then accordingly.

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  77. abu abdAllah Tariq Ahmed

    Bismillah was salamu alaykum. I seek refuge with Allah, and ask forbearance from those who read my comments.

    I agree with those who make dua for the guidance of brothers and sisters who are in sin. And I think there is the weakness of every stubborn sinner in any person who makes the argument that homosexual behavior/actions are compatible with being a Muslim. Allah subhanahu wata ala destroyed Qawmi Lut — it was one of four nations whose ignominy and punishment are mentioned again and again in the Qur’an — cursed with every recitation by the Muslims, cursed by all of time, and the evil of them held up as an example for all of humanity by Allah.

    And the most notorious sin of Qawmi Lut was their stubborn pursuit of deviant sexuality. They were of the mutakabbireen, and their arrogance manifested specifically in their refusal of the guidance of Lut alayhis salam. And their most righteous supporter was the wife of Lut — we know she had good qualities because she was the wife of a prophet of Allah, and a great prophet at that.

    And Allah destroyed her with them.

    So, there is more than enough room for improvement among Muslims in inviting homosexuals to Islam, but there is no doubt at all that Islam is submission to Allah. And as for those who hold their most precious “desires” above the hudud of Allah?

    “fa ammaa man taghaa, wa aatharal hayaatad-dunya, fa innal-jaheema hi-yal-ma’waa. wa ammaa man khafa maqaama Rabbihi, wa nahan-nafsa ‘anilhawaa, fa innal-Jannata hi-yal-ma’waa.” From surah an-Naziat. and for the one who commits taghaa (disobedience predicated on self-aggrandizement above Allah, subhanAllah), and loses himself in pursuit of worldly pleasures, then indeed for him is Jaheem (hellfire) refuge. And for the one who respectfully fears the Position of his Lord over himself, and restrained his soul/self from its unlawful inclinations, then indeed the Garden (of Paradise) will be his refuge.

    And the warning is not for homosexuals as such — it is for any person who treasures some fleeting sinful pleasure of this world such that he makes excuses against the Command of Allah. Whether it be alcohol, illicit sex with men or women, any kind of abuse of others, backbiting, etc. — any of those things which Allah has forbidden — fear Allah and restrain yourselves.

    And may Allah Guide all of us, whatever our inclinations to the unequivocal realization of His position as our Rabb, to the true submission to Him, and specifically in fighting whatever weakness is the test of our own nafs.

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  78. fshareef

    assalamu alaikum,

    i haven’t seen anyone respond with a psychological argument yet.

    (i did major in psychology, and i do still keep up with recent research on certain topics in psychology.)

    so… here’s my proposition.

    all attractions and repulsions, whether to the same gender or opposite gender or to dark skin or light skin (etc… etc… etc…), are completely based on the stereotypes/associations/prejudices we form through our environment, our hormonal fluctuations, and our personal experiences. understanding how stereotypes and associations are formed, biologically and socially, can help us understand sexual attraction. furthermore, understanding how stereotypes and associations can be broken, we can then develop attractions and repulsions toward ANYTHING.

    if mm.org would like me to expound on that, let me know, and i’ll see what i can do after my law school exams are done.

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    • Amad

      Fshareef: we would definitely be interested in a post on this issue from a psychological point of view. That would be very helpful.

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  79. Rasheed Eldin

    Salaam,

    I would just like to comment on two points that have been made in recent comments:

    1. That this issue should not be talked about too much!

    – I agree, these matters shouldn’t be exaggerated as we could run the risk of actually putting the wrong ideas in some people’s heads. But there certainly has to be *somewhere* to talk about it openly, as hiding from the issue won’t make it go away. Yes you’re right, what’s needed first and foremost is an emphasis on spirituality and returning to Allah. But who’s going to make that link for the people struggling? And not only that, but there are plenty of good practising Muslims for whom this problem hasn’t yet gone away because there are other dimensions to the problem: psychological, social, whatever. The implication that people feel this way because they have been sinful is unfair.

    – Also, linking it to “making sins public” isn’t right because it is already very public and what’s needed is another side to the discourse. There have been numerous books, documentaries and even a feature film (“A Jihad for Love”) promoting the “Queer Muslim” agenda and there must be some counter-balance. Furthermore, those who seek help by getting involved in some kind of support group generally do so anonymously, so they can talk through their issues without exposing what Allah has covered.

    2. That setting up support groups is counter-productive!

    – Perhaps you think that people involved in such groups just perpetuate their problems by becoming obsessed with them and talking about them incessantly. That’s a danger that people at StraightStruggle try to avoid, by encouraging members to look at their lives positively. At the same time, when things get tough, they know they have understanding brothers and sisters to lean on, who will talk them through their moment of struggle. And it means a lot coming from people who have gone through exactly the same.

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  80. DE

    Assalamu alaikum,

    From what I remember, Shaykh bin Baaz (rahimahullah) explained that the punishment for lesbianism is not the same as for sodomy because there is no actual act of penetration of the private parts.

    The hadd punishment in the case of adultery, fornication, and sodomy all revolve around the evidence/confession of the actual act of penetration.

    Wallahu ‘alam.

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  81. h. ahmed

    Admittedly, I havent read all the comments. So Im not sure this hasnt been posted earlier, but if not i HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS ANSWER BY SHAYKH ABDAL HAKIM JACKSON (Dr. Sherman Jackson) on “If there is a Place for Gay Muslims”

    Is There A Place For Gay Muslims
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HisIwWhyU34

    (Thanks to Brother Dash for recording and posting on youtube/facebook)

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  82. MBloggerer

    Bismillah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem

    Shaytaan often whispers thoughts of shirk to us or we might think to commit sins or crimes such as theft, homosexuality, etc. but just because one has those thoughts does not make them a “Mushrik” or a “Thief” or a “Homosexual” – so let’s move away from ascribing set identies to our dear brothers and sisters struggling with these urges.

    I love how sister Conviction2Change stressed she is a Muslimah before all else (stressing this aspect rather than just saying she is someone who has urges) – and this is attitude is essential. If you ascribe a negative to yourself, it’s like a self-fulfilling prophesy…whether you consciously realize it, you follow through with whatever pattern of behaviour your chosen identiy requires.

    Remember Uthman radhi Allahu ‘anh? I think the concept of Hayaa needs to be revived, especially among brother (most people are under the false impression it’s something for sisters alone). As for those who say this issue is drastically different from heterosexual attraction because one is constantly surrounded by the same gender, I don’t think it has to be. If you have these urges, then lower your gaze before brothers, don’t hug them (if shaking hands is too much, then don’t), keep your talk business-like, make sure to cover as much as possible and don’t go to places like the gym, etc. where you are exposed to naked/tight parts……in essence — treat them as you would a member of the opposite gender because the whole point of gender interactions code in Islam is to prevent Zina (even with the same gender). [if you think about it, if you actually function within society you are constantly surrounded by the opposite gender at school, work, bus/train, etc...so if it possible to refrain in these cases, then certainly, one can derive the strength to keep themselves pure with the same gender].

    These urges are no different than others that lead us to sin and the only thing that can prevent us from sin is the mercy of Allah upon us and our Taqwa of Him (and no urge is worse than that of shirk). Who is the only one who can help us combat these urges? Allah. So what are some ways we can earn the pleasure of Allah? Always make du’aa, fast as often as you can, etc The more good deeds we do, the more our iman or faith increases which translates into a greater strength to do what is pleasing to Allah, including keeping away from the sin of a homosexual act or any other form of zina. It’s not a disease (at least in most cases not psychological), it’s a sin and if we approach it like one, perhaps we would be able to repel it like one.

    And just as with any other sinful thought, let’s not disclose our urges or wrongful actions to others unnecessarily, whether online or off – unless of course we are getting help from a councillor, imam, or other professional. Let’s adopt the attitude of success, let’s not make any excuses for our wrong actions and put our trust in Allah to rectify our affairs when we act to please Him.

    I think Brother Dawud said it best when he said if Allah can take someone from Kufr to Islam, He can certainly take them out of Homosexuality to Heterosexuality.

    May Allah ta’ala grant us sucess in all our private struggles and make us even better in private than in public, ameen.

    Note: As someone who has been a regular reader at MM since it’s inception, I highly agree with those who’ve said the comments for this post should be closed and a new post on the solutions given by the scholars of old or the suggestion by brother FShareef regarding the psychology of attraction be made. Otherwise this section might just be counterproductive to the initial aims of the post by our respected Shaykh.

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    • Amad

      salam
      We usually don’t close comments unless they degenerate into personal attacks. So far, this thread has maintained its “integrity”, and we’d like to leave it open for anyone else who wishes to share their experiences. Brother FShareef’s article may be some time in coming, and we look forward to it inshallah. Meanwhile, Sr. Zainab is also working on other angles to see if we can take this to the next step.

      jazakillahkhair

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  83. Taleb Haq

    Salam,

    May Allah reward you all for your intention. While the brother’s intention is good, to close the discussion, I believe it is probably the worst thing that we can do in such a situation. We need to have a healthy discussion on what is happening in the community and this needs to be done at all levels of the Muslim community be it the scholars, the thinkers, the laymen and the concerned. What do we gain if we close such a discussion? What do we lose? We lose the confidence and respect of our brothers and sisters who are going through such a trial and tribulation. They will no longer be able to relay on us in the Muslim community for help and they will feel we are quite literally sweeping them under the carpet and pretending that they don’t exist.

    To the brothers that have compared this issue to stealing and other crimes. To start off with, I don’t believe that discussion on an issue such as “what is the punishment of this and that” is even relevant. This discussion is to be had by jurists when they are assessing a particular case in an Islamic court. In the case of very few issues, the hudood are already outlined and the situation would be assessed to see if the hudood actually apply to it or not. The hadd for homosexuality has NOT been outlined in the Qur’an or sunnah and it is left to the jurists to decide upon it. And Allah knows best.

    Back to the particular case of comparing this crime to others. I believe, just from reading some of the comments, that it is not clear in everyone’s thinking yet that we need to evaluate what exactly is the crime…simply having the feelings is NOT a crime nor a punishment (it is unfair and unjust to even assume that this is a punishment, and very counterproductive). The issue that needs to be focused on is how do we stop our brothers and sisters who are committing such crimes to get back on the straight path and how do we prevent them from going back to that path. Also, how do we help them in maintaining a stable and normal life as much as possible given the circumstances that they have found themselves in. They are, after all, our brothers and sisters and it is our duty to help them as such. Discussing such issues in a group setting or a one-on-one, is, wallahu a’lam, a method that has proven to work… unfortunately, it is not always possible to discuss this with an imam or family member as they may not fully understand what is going on.

    So, instead of looking for ways to criticize and diminish the efforts that have been proven to work for people, let’s try and see what else can be done to help them.

    May Allah reward us for our intentions and put baraka in our efforts.

    Salam.

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  84. Sister: No nonsense, Please!

    This is too much to take in 1.5 week!

    Beginning of last week, I saw a huge flyer on one of the bulletin boards at a nearby school marketing a movie about international homo-Muslims produced by some sicko “Muslim”. Never knew it existed, never watched it never will. The title itself was so sickening! Apparently, some fags were having homo-awareness week.

    This week, this article!!! Seriously, are homo-Muslims really this common?!? Scares me…

    …and I am provoked to respond…

    Despite being a student of psychology, I dont give a darn about the psychological argument! Homosexuality is anti-fitrah just like kufr is anti-fitrah and given that most Muslims know engaging in homosexuality is haraam (just like they know that engaging in kufr is haram), there is no need to deal with this matter with tenderness. Are we forgetting that Allah punished the people of Lut thru a severe hail storm plus a 180 degree town-flip for engaging in homosexual behavior!

    Here is my question to all those who are so eager to address the underlying ‘psychological causes’ of homo-behavior….If homosexuality is associated with mental problems, then why did Allah punish homosexuals so harshly? Do you think ALLAH, The Most Just, would punish psychologically disturbed individuals in such a fashion?!? Think about it!

    Shaykh Yasir is to be commended for speaking about the issue with such sensitivity in his article, yet I personally have heard him make stridently anti-gay remarks in class and it is precisely these remarks and attitudes, which cause immeasurable harm to our Muslim brothers and sisters and may alienate them from their faith. Don’t think of us as the other, we are right here, reading Muslim Matters, attending AlMaghrib seminars, memorizing Quran, learning Arabic, fasting, trying to improve ourselves and learn our deen, praying next to you, etc.

    Pro-gay is anti-Islam…anti-gay is Pro-Islam. How does making anti-gay comments harm a Muslim and alienate him from his faith? Your (bolded) comment is contradictory. Righteous Muslims benefit from anti-gay remarks as such remarks remind them about homosexual behavior being filth, protect them from harm and make them closer to their faith!

    You’re absolutely right, I have at times allowed such feelings to show in crude jokes. Jazak Allah for pointing this out and I will try my best to ensure this does not happen again. Also, please take it as your duty to correct such attitudes (via private comments) and, at least from my side, it will be taken very positively.

    Yasir

    Br. Yasir Qadhi, what was that validation for? Seriously? That too with a “Jazakallah…”?!? Am I missing something here or are we losing ourselves? May Allah strengthen and protect righteousness! If you are ensuring that you will not make anti-gay comments in your lectures, then I ensure you that you will lose an audience! Astaghfirullah. (If you are not Br. Yasir Qadhi, plz dont respond to this part of my comment).

    ——

    Honestly, how far are Muslims going to go to reduce the severity of committing MAJOR SINS by ‘investigating’ psychological ’causes/explanations’? (I guess, ‘psuedo-psychological’ would be a more appropriate term). So, what next are we going to use psychology for…reducing the severity of committing kufr? Astaghfirullah!

    May Allah protect!

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    • Ayman

      Assalamulaikum,

      Sister — there’s a huge difference between approaching the issue of homosexuality in the case of those who 1: a) support it and b) attack Islam for being in opposition or attempt to make it compatible with Islam and 2: a) do not support it b) suffer from such urges, and sincerely desire some help and assistance from their brothers, sisters and leaders.

      Yet, you say its “wrong” to be tender to those who suffer from these problems? Clearly, you have jumped to a conclusion without serious thought. Harsh treatment of those who can be helped and guided away from such afflictions is amongst the worst modes of responses. It will alienate them, weaken their morale, and God-forbid – encourage the fulfillment of such urges (i.e. when you are left alone to deal with such a problem, your will power isn’t always so high).

      Well, one thing is for sure: righteous Muslims certainly do not benefit from failing to adequately address a problem with an effective solution. One needs to understand the problem before suggesting a complete solution.

      Take care!

      Ayman

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  85. Yasir Qadhi

    @ Sr. No-nonsense, please!

    I am addressing those who have such feelings and are trying to battle them and not fall into the sin. I am not addressing those who are flouting the Shariah and openly engaging in sin, considering it to be permissible. For the first category, I have nothing but kindness and sympathy; for the second, the opposite.

    I’m afraid you don’t seem to understand the difference between the two.

    Yasir

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  86. AsimG

    Asalaamu Alaykum Sister no nonsense,

    You are mostly correct. When someone blatantly embraces homosexuality, flaunts it and even justifies the sin Islamically, they have no place with us.

    But we do not CHASE PEOPLE away from our deen when they are struggling and confused.

    With all due respect ukhti, you have absolutely no basis to speak from a psychological standpoint nor should you be speaking Islamically on the mental condition.

    It is much more complicated than quoting the story of Lut (as).

    Ask any of those brothers and sisters if they felt that they “had a choice” in having these urges.
    Ask the brothers who were molested by their uncles for years and are completely confused on what is masculinity and sexuality if they “had a choice”.

    Also, let’s watch our adab with our teachers such as Shaykh Yasir Qadhi…

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    • Amad

      It is amazing for someone to tell someone else that they KNOW how the other feels. When we have examples of GOOD Muslims in these very comments, trying to preserve and protect themselves from their own fitnah, I find it highly egregious for someone to tell them that they are full of it. One should seek mercy and forgiveness from Allah that the same fitnah doesn’t afflict them or one of their loved ones in the future. When we flaunt someone’s weakness or fitnah, out of Allah’s Justice, that same fitnah might hit us. I have seen that happen to myself on an issue, and I seek forgiveness for you sister “no-nonsense” and everyone else from this retribution.

      As for the homo-movie by the wacko Parvez Sharma, that has no correlation and analogy to the REAL MUSLIMS struggling with it. People who deny that this is even a sin are committing kufr, and for some of them to openly flaunt Allah’s limits, then they will get their recompense in the most flaunted way as well. Please do not compare apples and oranges, especially when the oranges are completely rotten…

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  87. AsimG

    Response to the “straight struggle groups”:

    I agree, I find these groups a little problematic.

    It is DANGEROUS for these brothers and sisters to make friends with each other, but where else are they supposed to go?
    Do we have counselors in our masajid that can handle such affairs?
    They need to talk to someone and to gain a better perspective on their struggle.

    It also is dangerous to legitimize these desires and take the identity of “SSA”. Also, from what I understand, these groups are in repetitive cycles whereas many people basically just come tell their “story” and post whenever they sin.
    For those who are little farther along in their struggle, these stories become a fitnah in itself.

    But one could easily argue these type of “online support groups” are helpful because it stops people from despairing.

    Allahu Alim, it is not the best option right now, but I don’t know of any other place those brothers and sisters could go?

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  88. AsimG

    I want to mention this one more time: THE ISSUE OF DESPAIR AND LONELINESS.

    Time and again you will hear these two words used. Why?

    Because they feel completely cut off from the rest of the Muslims and feel there is NO SOLUTION.

    It is complete garbage to say all of these brothers and sisters CHOSE these urges and saying such statement will only further increase this despair and loneliness.

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  89. fshareef

    “Sister: No nonsense, Please!”,

    I understand where you’re coming from, and you do have a valid point. However, just as alcoholism is a major sin in Islam and its effects and causes need to be studied in order to implement effective prevention methods, the same is for any other major sin, and that includes homosexuality and lesbianism, with regards to Islam and Muslims.

    Studying the causes and effects of major sins being committed in modern society does not “reduce the severity of committing MAJOR SINS.” Rather, it creates the opportunity to reflect back on the Laws of Allah in preventing people from committing such sins.

    Just as there are already programs available – at least in america – to prevent alcoholism, if the goal is the implementation of Islam beyond five daily prayers, programs need to be made available to address the issues of and prevent the Islamically illegal actions of Muslims.

    I hope that clarifies my position.

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  90. Omar

    Assalamualaikum

    Practically everyone understands it is a major sin to act upon, but the desires need to be dealt with. But as fshareef said, I have yet to see a scientific response to this with a practical cure.

    We need committed Muslim psychologists who can correctly diagnose the different causes, and ways of dealing with them. Then share their findings with these various groups.

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  91. Sister: No nonsense, Please!

    @ Sr. No-nonsense, please!

    I am addressing those who have such feelings and are trying to battle them and not fall into the sin…

    Even so…unless someone’s heart is spiritually diseased, why will making anti-gay remarks drive them away from Islam? The comment that was apologetically responded to earlier is logically inconsistent.

    It’s like apologizing to someone for making anti-kufr comments because they are suffering from kufr waswasas (pl. for waswasa…evil whisperings from Satan). Is it ever right to apologize for anti-kufr remarks? The answer obviously is NO. Similarly is it ever right to apologize for making anti-gay remarks? The answer once again is NO. I hope you get my point.

    …I am not addressing those who are flouting the Shariah and openly engaging in sin, considering it to be permissible. For the first category, I have nothing but kindness and sympathy; for the second, the opposite.

    So do I.

    I’m afraid you don’t seem to understand the difference between the two.

    Yasir

    Alhamdulillah, I totally understand the difference between the two. I couldn’t find the original comment the excerpt was quoted from…so from what I’ve read in your quotation…the commentator clearly seems to be upset because you had made anti-gay remarks (in other words, pro-Islam remarks). No where did he/she say that he/she was upset because you ridiculed people who were struggling to rid themselves of homosexuals thoughts.

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    • Ayman

      “Alhamdulillah, I totally understand the difference between the two. I couldn’t find the original comment the excerpt was quoted from…so from what I’ve read in your quotation…the commentator clearly seems to be upset because you had made anti-gay remarks (in other words, pro-Islam remarks). No where did he/she say that he/she was upset because you ridiculed people who were struggling to rid themselves of homosexuals thoughts.”

      Assalamulaikum,

      I see, thanks for making your position clear. I was under the impression that you were even against compassionately dealing with those who have acknowledge that homosexual behaviour is unacceptable, however, still suffer from the urges. Certainly, if by anti-gay remarks you mean intellectually criticizing homosexuality and lesbianism, and speaking of the consequences I have no problem. If you mean immature and unnecessary insults which serve no good purpose, then I disagree.

      Examples:

      1. “Homosexuals who have accepted their behaviour and propagate it as being OK, are seriously misguided, along with all of their supporters, and will face consequences in the hereafter if they do not seek Allah’s forgiveness and return to the straight path or even try to.” – Nothing wrong with this.

      2. “Homosexuals are pieces of sh** who should go die!” – As you yourself have mentioned, this method of expressing disapproval really won’t help guide a person. It is also full of hate – not simply towards the sin, or even the act of committing the sin on the part of the sinner, but it fails to acknowledge that such people have been created with fitrah, and have the potential to return, Inshallah.

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  92. Sister: No nonsense, Please!

    With all due respect ukhti, you have absolutely no basis to speak from a psychological standpoint nor should you be speaking Islamically on the mental condition.

    I never spoke from the psychological standpoint. I simply said that I had formal education in psychology. And I never spoke on the mental condition from the Islamic perspective either.

    It is much more complicated than quoting the story of Lut (as).

    It’s actually not as complicated as its being made. After a certain point, the psychological ‘investigation’ becomes pseudo-intellectulism, in my opinion. Wallahu alim.

    Also, let’s watch our adab with our teachers such as Shaykh Yasir Qadhi…

    I try to implement my knowledge about adab to the best of my understanding.

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  93. Siraaj

    Salaam alaykum Sister: No Nonsense Please

    Jazakallaah khayr for your input.

    It’s like apologizing to someone for making anti-kufr comments because they are suffering from kufr waswasas (pl. for waswasa…evil whisperings from Satan). Is it ever right to apologize for anti-kufr remarks? The answer obviously is NO. Similarly is it ever right to apologize for making anti-gay remarks? The answer once again is NO. I hope you get my point

    Actually sister, your analogy is mistaken. The hypothetical people you’re describing have accepted their kufr waswas, whereas the SSA people discussed in the article have not. They have and continue to resist their waswas. When a group of people approached the Prophet about their waswas, and they confirmed that they hated this waswas, the Prophet did not make fun of them – rather, he said this was a sign of their eman.

    As for anti-kufr remarks, it depends on how you wish to define it. if it is an academic, rational discussion in which views are shared, this is one thing. If it is simply destructive criticism and name-calling, this is actually not recommended. It was noted that the people came to Islam through beautiful preaching, not through hate speech. What shaykh yasir above has done has stated a position against the action of homosexuality in a good manner while commending the brothers and sisters who resist it. At the same time, he has also stated that immature joking about the problem has no place in the discussion.

    Siraaj

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  94. me, too

    the commentator clearly seems to be upset because you had made anti-gay remarks (in other words, pro-Islam remarks). No where did he/she say that he/she was upset because you ridiculed people who were struggling to rid themselves of homosexuals thoughts.

    I intended to avoid this discussion since the atmosphere seems to have become hostile, which is generally why I have found such discussions are to be avoided with many Muslims particularly those whose minds are unable to grasp the reality of the situation at hand, namely, that there are Muslims who struggle with this trial, who see it as a trial, who struggle mostly alone for the sake of Allah to hold onto their faith and fight against the inclinations of their nafs in a community unable or unwillingly to assist them with anything other than condemnations and crude jokes.

    But since my comments were referenced I thought I would offer a clarification. I do not have any problem with someone giving the Islamic viewpoint on such matters with proofs from the Quran and Sunnah but I do take exception to comments which demean and insult and only serve to harm those we believe that we can safely demonize are “the other”.

    The inability to speak about this struggle with other Muslims or receive any support for this struggle has an isolating effect on the individual. Struggling with this issue as a Muslim is difficult, struggling alone is also difficult, understanding that this struggle falls outside of Islamic normative values and having this struggle belittled, demeaned, and made fun of not only by your peers, your fellow Muslim brothers and sisters but also those in positions of authority or people of knowledge that you learn from and respect also has an isolating effect, can lead to feelings of alienation from one’s faith, and makes a difficult situation unnecessarily even more difficult.

    Perhaps, you can understand that? Or maybe not.

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  95. Sister: No nonsense, Please!

    It is amazing for someone to tell someone else that they KNOW how the other feels. When we have examples of GOOD Muslims in these very comments, trying to preserve and protect themselves from their own fitnah, I find it highly egregious for someone to tell them that they are full of it. .

    Since in your thesis statement you have made duas for me…I can’t help but ask…when did I say ‘I KNOW how the other feels’ and when did I say ‘all you guys trying to protect yourself from fitnah are full of it?!?” Really I want you to answer those questions. It really upsets me that you have read those sentiments in my comments!

    One should seek mercy and forgiveness from Allah that the same fitnah doesn’t afflict them or one of their loved ones in the future. When we flaunt someone’s weakness or fitnah, out of Allah’s Justice, that same fitnah might hit us.

    Sure. I never did the latter.

    I have seen that happen to myself on an issue, and I seek forgiveness for you sister “no-nonsense” and everyone else from this retribution.Astaghfirullah, yes I talked about fitnah but when did I flaunt about it? Yes I want you to answer that question as well.

    As for the homo-movie by the wacko Parvez Sharma, that has no correlation and analogy to the REAL MUSLIMS struggling with it. People who deny that this is even a sin are committing kufr, and for some of them to openly flaunt Allah’s limits, then they will get their recompense in the most flaunted way as well. Please do not compare apples and oranges, especially when the oranges are completely rotten…

    I know it is not entirely related to the original article. I never compared the movie to this article. I didn’t mention it as an analogy, but as something that has been bother me since last week….that is homosexuality amongst Muslims.

    Seriously, Br. Amad, give me a break!!! The admin is expected to have a broader perspective than the common commentators.

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  96. fshareef

    @ Sister: No nonsense, Please!:
    in reference to your comment – “After a certain point, the psychological ‘investigation’ becomes pseudo-intellectulism, in my opinion. Wallahu alim.”

    that could be said true about any field of physical science or social science. it doesn’t mean research should stop. further, that comment may be making the false assumption that it is possible for humans to have collected all knowledge regarding a certain field of studies. but, i don’t think you were intending that.

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  97. Sister: No nonsense, Please!

    Walaikum as-salaam,

    Actually sister, your analogy is mistaken.

    I don’t think it is…a waswas is a waswasa whether you acknowledge it or not. If you don’t realize that it is a waswasa then, you need to be informed about it.

    If it is simply destructive criticism and name-calling, this is actually not recommended. It was noted that the people came to Islam through beautiful preaching, not through hate speech.

    From what I know, anti-kufr remarks are acceptable…as long as they are used with wisdom in the right place at the right time, and are phrased appropriately. Wallahu Alim…

    Isn’t it mentioned in the Quran…”…if you mock at us so do we mock at you likewise for your mocking…” Check Surah Hood, verse 38 for context.

    @ me too:

    Perhaps, you can understand that

    I understand that. I won’t say anything about crude joking (as I don’t really know if it is an effective approach) but let’s not underestimate the power of condemnations. Harsh condemnations distinguish right from wrong. If it weren’t for them, we wouldn’t have a strong and clear sense of Islamic ethics. Br. Yasir Qadhi should freely and strictly condemn gay-ism/lesbianism in his classes, lectures, etc. to make it easier for off-track people to get in touch with their fitrah. Seriously, these urges are waswasas…don’t get lost in any kind of hoax. Shaytan likes to create a false sense of complexity in simple matters. …don’t give those urges more attention than they deserve. Read Surah an-Nas.

    @ fshareef:

    it doesn’t mean research should stop.

    Research investingating wacko hypotheses anti-fitrah inclinations should stop. And Muslims probing psychological explanations for anti-fitrah behavior seriously need to relax!

    Wallahu Alim

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  98. Green Child

    @ Taahir

    I feel for you brother, and I hope that Allah eases your burden, but I think you’ll find that although you may have had a “normal” childhood, you still had a childhood completely unique to you, one that help build your identity. I suggest that you find a Muslim counselor, or do some self-examination on why it is that you find the same sex attractive for emotional reasons, starting from early childhood. Its weird how the brain wires things together. Allah IS with you, and you just gotta keep going. There are people in the world who have went from being normal children, to serial murders, and back again (A long way gone by Ishmael Beah), gone from heroine addicts to completely clean, and yes there ARE people who have defeated homosexual desires. You also need to know the principles of brain science, and pain pleasure associations. I suggest you read some books on Neuro Linguistic Programming, Pain and Pleasure Associations, remember the best pain and pleasure associations are heaven and hell.

    Remember, Allah SWT has made this test for you because HE KNOWS that you can beat it, and he is rooting for you all the way! Increase your connection to him, and you will realize how meaningless the world is.

    I’ll write some more on the psychology of the brain, from my limited understanding.

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    • aj

      umm he already said it has nothing to do with childhood or anything.
      maybe you cannot accept that this is how he feels and this may be how he is born. this maybe from Allah swt

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  99. Conviction2Change

    Salam my dear brothers and sisters,

    I know brothers Rasheed and Taleb Haq has given very good replies to a few upset comments and I would just like to expand on them, especially a couple directed towards me.

    Dear ALGEBRA, may Allah reward you for being so caring of your fellow brothers and sisters in advising them to stay on the Straight Path. We need more Muslims in our Ummah such as yourself. I would like to clarify though for you a few misconceptions you may have about what brothers and sisters like myself have been trying to say in these comments. Acting upon SSA is no doubt a grave sin. I hope no one here has been saying otherwise. I know I haven’t and neither have any of the brothers or sisters from our Straight Struggle group. The benefits of having an online support group are as such:
    1. Since SSA is our weakness and the group has others with the same weakness, communicating online in an open environment with nearly 300 Muslims devoted to seeking change in their lives for no reason other than to please Allah.
    2. As someone else has mentioned – we truly have no where else to go. We feel isolated, alone, thrown aside, and as if our dear (straight) Muslim brothers and sisters do not care for us. Alhamdulilah, Allah guided me to finding straight Muslims who are supportive of me in my struggle, but there are plenty of brothers and sisters still striving with SSA that do not have this kind of support.
    3. It is a complete Islamic environment. This group is not like groups created by homosexual-affirming Muslim organizations like Al-Fatiha. This group was not created to tell Muslims “it’s OK to feel this way” but to tell them “Do you want to change? There IS a way.”
    The very fact that we are even joining this support group shows EXACTLY what you are stating: We are making a change in our hearts. We are telling ourselves that we will no longer give in to the ways of Iblees and we will struggle against it until we are beneath the earth. We will find our way to Jannah through this struggle. We will please Allah and no whispers will stop us.

    Dear bahader, may Allah reward you for your advice. Thank you. To clarify a little part of my previous post I would like to say that I did not begin feeling this way after my bad internet addiction habits began. I have had these feelings since I was the age of 6, at which point I had not committed any sins but other things had happened in my life which caused me to begin feeling this way. (That is a story for another day though.) My internet addiction problems started much, much later in my life when I thought there was “no way out” of these attractions. I was dead wrong. I am happy Allah showed me that. Also, I did stop my bad habits a few months after they had started so I no longer do them and will never go back to them. I would also like to mention that I do not view what is happening in my life as a punishment. I will not be in despair over this. Allah had His reasons for testing me in this way and I trust He kind of knows what He is doing up there. :)

    Dear brother Ibn Mikdad, thank you for that clarification. Homosexuality is not being tolerated in this discussion as far as I can see. We are all denouncing the sin in the name of Islam. May Allah be pleased with us all.

    Dear brother Tahir, thank you for your advice as well. You are right in that we should not talk about it beyond necessity, however the brothers and sisters in these comments who do deal with SSA are just trying to say… it doesn’t get talked about at all in the public sphere! We would just like to raise a little bit of awareness, set the record straight, and show our fellow Muslims that we are all Muslims with different struggles. We must all strive for the sake of Allah and keep away from sin as He has commanded. You are also right in that praying, reading Qur’an, performing Hajj, getting married, all of these things are a step in the right direction, however we cannot rely solely on these activities. Change starts in the heart and proliferates from there throughout the body, mind, and soul. Every action is but by intention.

    Dear Sister: No nonsense, Please!, thank you also for your care and concern for your brothers and sisters. I, for one, do appreciate that from you. I skimmed your posts and one thing that really jumped out at me and I do find it just a tad bit offensive and I think other brothers and sisters do as well… is calling us “homo-Muslims.” I am sorry for being picky. I just abhor being called anything except a Muslimah. I don’t like anything being written before the word Muslim, especially something that relates back to one who commits the sin of homosexuality. A Muslim is one who submits to the will of God. By turning away from our desires for the same sex, we are submitting to the will of Allah as He has so stated in the Glorious Quran. So let’s all just keep that in mind for future reference. Again, I mean no disrespect to you, just some friendly advice. Thank you for your efforts.

    Dear MBloggerer, thank you for the compliment and support.

    Dear brother Amad, thank you for your support and explanations. We highly appreciate it. (While I have the opportunity to do so here, I would also like to say I’ve always been a fan of your writings and your efforts with this blog. Keep up the great work!) May Allah make you successful in all that you do for Him.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change
    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle

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  100. AsimG

    Asalaamu Alaykum,

    I apologize sister no nonsense, did not want everyone to jump on you, your points are more than valid.

    One thing we can definitely take away from this is the need for Muslim counselors. I know of 1 who has helped other Muslims with these urges, but should would probably lose her license if what she did was known to where she works because officially homosexuality is “normal”.

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  101. AsimG

    ^
    One thing to add to sisterconvicted to change. Awesome brothers and sisters like her UNDERSTAND the situation better than most because they went through it.

    And when they get over the major hurdle they want to help others. Time and again you will see former alcholics and drug addicts talking to those still addicted and inviting them to AA meetings.

    Does that mean they enjoy the environment and condone the sin?
    Absolutely not.

    They just want to make it easier for their brothers and sisters and they should be commended.

    There are risks and precautions must be taken, but alhamdillah they are well-aware of this.
    (I.e. you will not likely see an SSA get together)

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  102. Green Child

    PURELY PSYCHOLOGICAL POST AFTER THE FIRST BOLDED PARAGRAPH

    I think the comments have concluded that we are in a consensus that homosexual desire is a test, and itself is not haram, but the action itself IS haram. Now we need to focus on SOLUTIONS, because the brothers/sisters who need help haven’t really gotten many SOLUTIONS from the comments section, and i think more than anything muslimmatters needs to follow this article up with some well thought and researched solutions, because that is what our struggling brothers and sisters need.

    I truly believe that some study in psychology can help us determine some solutions. The study of psychology and brain science am specifically talking about is NEUROPLASTICITY.

    NEUROPLASTICITY : neuro – meaning brain nerves, plastic – something that has a shape or arrangement that can be manipulated or changed, like in “plastic surgery”

    Basically it means that we can re-arrange the wiring of our brains, which includes the part of the brain dedicated to sexual thoughts and desires. This basically means that there is also such a thing as SEXUAL PLASTICITY. That is the ability to re-wire our brains to change our sexual desires from perverse desires to natural and normal desires.

    there isn’t much validity of a comment on muslimmatters, so I will give the link to the actual book where you learn all of this from, and read directly off of Google Books:

    The name of the book is called The Brain That Changes Itself by Norman Doidge, you have to read this to understand what I’m talking about, or atleast Chapter 4 talking about Sexual Plasticity. Therein the author relates how patients successfully re-wired their sexual preferences (although nothing about homosexuality, which to me is the same principle)

    There is a principle in brain science that states : Neurons that fire apart, wire apart, and Neurons that fire together, wire together,

    What it means is that if you take two unrelated external stimuli, and repeat them together at the exact same time, the neurons that fire for those stimuli, fire together, so they “wire together”. In other words, when one is stimulated, the other one also fires. The best example of this is Pavlov’s dogs, where Pavlov would blow a whistle repeatedly while feeding his dogs at the exact same time. He did it so many times that eventually when he blew his whistle the dogs’ mouths would still salivate, without them having been served food.

    In the same way two unrelated things that happen at the same time over and over again from early childhood can “wire” certain kinds of sexual desires into your brain. Homosexuality is NOT the only kind of sexual perversion, there are fetishes, incestuous desires, affiliation of pain and torture with sex, the desires for child molestation, astakhfirullah, some people even have a desire for people who have made surgeries to have both male and female reproductive parts. And I’m sorry i have to say all of these, matter of fact, i changed my name so you don’t know who this is, because I feel so uncomfortable saying this, but as you can see there are HUGE amounts of sexual perversions, and it is the result of a society where sex has invaded every part of our lives, polluting the relations between close family members, the relationships between teachers and students, and the list goes on.

    If a male has had a physically abusive mother in childhood, for example, that male may associate from an early age emotional intimacy with pain and violence. This early wiring of the brain leads to a man who in his adult life enjoys violent and painful sex, because of the early childhood wiring of the brain. Similar conclusions can be made for people with homosexual desires.

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  103. AbdulRahman

    What I’d like to do is applaud my brothers and sisters for maintaining their calm and composure against all the accusations. I was going to comment to Sheikh Yasir to feel calm because I wondered if he might be as aggravated as I was by the comments. Anyways, all praise is to Allah!

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  104. Green Child

    If you read the pages in the link i posted, (there may be a few missing it’s only a Google preview), you’ll see that with self-examination, and discipline people can discard sexual perversions, and people HAVE discarded sexual perversions.

    IN PRINCIPLE, discarding homosexual thoughts, or any perverse thoughts for that matter, really is the same as discarding a heroine addiction, or replacing junk food with healthy food in your diet, or having the thirst to kill people and then becoming a peaceful person, the point is, it’s possible. But you have to understand WHY your brain is wired in such a way, so that you can understand how to RE-WIRE your brain towards heterosexual thoughts.

    Now I’m going to feel very uncomfortable saying some of the following, but I hope it will help.

    For those struggling, you also need to be able to associate pain with the desires you have.

    Read lots of quranic tafsir about hellfire, and associate the pain of hellfire with these desires.

    concentrate on the fact that homosexual relations will never grant you children, who can be the joy of your lives.

    Concentrate on the fact that there is no such thing as real sex between same-sex people. A man has a penis, and a woman has a vagina. Ughh – I said it. Those two can only fit into each other physically, biologically, and for reproductive reasons. They both are sensitive for a reason, and – ugh – they both are “shaped” for eachother – ugh – It doesn’t make sense to move those around into other places – Ughh – because that no loner defines what sex actually is by scientific definition, which i am not going to elaborate on, because I am already too uncomfortable. Therefore – it just doesn’t make sense!!! And therefore, you can’t have real sexual satisfaction with same-sex partners.

    Most important, realze that you are NOT alone, that Allah is ALWAYS with you, and we all have our tests, you aren’t special, for some its pride, for some its shirk, for some its stealing, for some its drinking, for some its gambling, for some its killing, for some its tv, for some its video games, for some its fancy clothes, and yes for some it is perverse sexual desires.

    These are all attachments to the dunya, feeding tubes towards the nafs, the animal within, we must crush the animal within, the nafs, by de-attaching ourselves from the dunya in ALL areas of temptation. And when your heart has been severed from these chains of temptations, Allah will come pouring in, because your heart cannot remain a vacuum.

    My Duas are With You

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  105. Green Child

    Also There is a hadith that mentions for young people afraid of committing fornication, fasting is a prescription.

    Also I recommend listening to this talk by Shaykh HusainAbdul Sattar on preventing and conquering sin:

    http://www.sacredlearning.org/audio/general/2007/lasting_effects.m3u

    http://www.sacredlearning.org/audio/general/2007/lasting_effects.mp3

    It’s the concluding talk before the end of Ramadan in 2007 so the first bit is on Preventing Sin, the rest of it is a huge dua with lots of weeping, because it is the end of Ramadan.

    for those who don’t want to listen (you’re making a big mistake), the shaykh mentions 4 ways of preventing and conquering sin:

    1) Don’t go near an environment that will inspire the acting out of the sin
    ( Allah SWT didn’t tell Adam Alayhi Salaam to not eat from the tree, no, he told him not to go NEAR THE TREE!)

    2) Keep busy. Schedule your day in such a way, that sinful thoughts can’t even enter your mind. Focus on your work, take extra classes, etc. just don’t sit from Fajr to Isha.

    3) Know Allah Subhanuatala is ALWAYS WATCHING YOU, keep that in your mind at all times, writes notes reminding you and stick it in your pocket, wallet, computer monitor, etc., just know he is watching you, and you won’t want to think these thoughts.

    4) Perform a good deed, after you sin – When you sin, Allah Subhanuatala opens the door for you to do an even worse sin, to spiral down a terrible road of increasingly evil sins. Whenever you have weird thoughts in your mind, read Quran, or give sadaqah, to cleanse yourself, and to train your mind to think good clean thoughts, and to eliminate the bad thoughts.

    I’ve said enough.

    Assalamuaalykum Wah rahmatullahi wah Barakatuh.

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  106. Sister: No nonsense, Please!

    I skimmed your posts and one thing that really jumped out at me and I do find it just a tad bit offensive and I think other brothers and sisters do as well… is calling us “homo-Muslims.” .

    I was referring to the international homo-Muslims who were supposedly a part of that movie. I didn’t watch it so I don’t really know if the people in there actually engage in homo-behavior or they simply have waswasas. I wasn’t referring to the Muslims who are trying to rid themselves of these waswasas.

    I will not apologize or be more careful in the future as there is no guilt involved.

    Thank you for your efforts

    You are very welcome!

    Asalaamu Alaykum,

    I apologize sister no nonsense, did not want everyone to jump on you, your points are more than valid.

    Walaykum as-salaam,
    I don’t feel jumped on. I just feel very sorry for some people here.

    And just so we’re clear, in my earlier comment, by commom commentators, I meant people who accuse and argue without truly understanding what was said.

    Seriously, if we are looking for real solutions, we should consider hiring Taqwa-rich individuals for some Shaytan-scaring therapy. We need some REAL MEN like Umar (ra), whose presence would re-wire the fitrah neurons in waswasah’d (def: full of waswasas) brains and shiver that shaytan out of the head!

    This thread should be locked until such men are found.

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  107. Green Child

    I also recommend books on Neuro Linguistic Programming, and Pain and pleasure Associations, I especially recommend Anthony Robbins ” Awake The Giant Within” book

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  108. anonymous

    Assalamu alaikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatuh,

    For the bros who have this problem, I have a simple suggestion: Get married, try being with a woman.

    I’m going to assume that most of these brothers, at least seemingly pious ones such as the people who commented and admitted having this problem, have never been with a woman. For those brothers, I say: give it a shot. It’s the only alternative you have to celibacy anyway, so it’s not like there’s a choice in the matter. I’m willing to bet that these brothers will instantly turn straight. They’re frustrated with their sexuality because they’ve never been sexually active to begin with, so I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of Muslims who have this problem will be cure simply by being sexually active with a wife. This is a natural relief from this sexual frustration.

    This is my sincere advice, and may Allah cure all of you.

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  109. ibnkhalil

    Assalam o alaykum Shaykh Yasir for this post.

    I have a few questions.

    a. We said that the act constitutes a sin.But don’t evil thoughts count towards sin? Like thinking evil about Islam and Muslims. Can an analogy be made for homosexuality?

    b. As we said, doesn’t the fact that allowing homosexual urges, but not acting on them, open up the door, encourage and ease the situation for people suffering from this problem to take a lax attitude towards it and give some leeway to the sin? Like making it popular amongst us that “Its ok to be homosexual just so long as you don’t act on it.” Did that make sense?
    JazakAllah khair
    wasalam o alaykum wa rahmatullah

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  110. anonymous sister

    salaam,

    I had an important question:

    1) If we know that a sister or a few sisters in our community are homosexuals or bisexual, how are we supposed to protect ourselves in female-only, non-pardah settings (Ex: a women only party or bridal shower)? Would we have to wear hijab in front of them?
    If yes, then on one hand, why should we have to wear hijab to an all girls party because of a few sisters living in fitnah? what if the host doesn’t know about these sisters’ sexual orientation? do we have a right to inform her, so they are not invited? but then again, why should we look like the bad ones, telling the host who to and who not to invite, its not like were the ones that are causing the homosexual problems. Isnt the reason why we segregate ourselves, and have these type of female-only events, is so we can freely enjoy each others company while dressing up and looking the part? Why should we have to forego our right to dressing up and looking good amongst our peers because of a few people out of a hundred that are ruining it for us? Are we supposed to consider them as “guys” or the “opposite gender” in regards to the hijab? since the purpose of the hijab is to conceal our beauty, and if we display our beauty in front of these homosexual sisters, and our ability to look good gives them illicit thoughts, are we held accountable?

    and if not, then isn’t it just horrific knowing that someone of the same gender could be having inappropriate thoughts about us?

    Please reply asap.

    Jazakallah Khair

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  111. Conviction2Change

    salaam,

    I had an important question:

    1) If we know that a sister or a few sisters in our community are homosexuals or bisexual, how are we supposed to protect ourselves in female-only, non-pardah settings (Ex: a women only party or bridal shower)? Would we have to wear hijab in front of them?
    If yes, then on one hand, why should we have to wear hijab to an all girls party because of a few sisters living in fitnah? what if the host doesn’t know about these sisters’ sexual orientation? do we have a right to inform her, so they are not invited? but then again, why should we look like the bad ones, telling the host who to and who not to invite, its not like were the ones that are causing the homosexual problems. Isnt the reason why we segregate ourselves, and have these type of female-only events, is so we can freely enjoy each others company while dressing up and looking the part? Why should we have to forego our right to dressing up and looking good amongst our peers because of a few people out of a hundred that are ruining it for us? Are we supposed to consider them as “guys” or the “opposite gender” in regards to the hijab? since the purpose of the hijab is to conceal our beauty, and if we display our beauty in front of these homosexual sisters, and our ability to look good gives them illicit thoughts, are we held accountable?

    and if not, then isn’t it just horrific knowing that someone of the same gender could be having inappropriate thoughts about us?

    Please reply asap.

    Jazakallah Khair

    Wasalam dear annoyed sister :)

    These are very good questions! I am not going to give you the Islamic perspective because I have not properly researched this in full yet. I’m working on it. However, I’ll just give you my perspective as someone on the other side of the fence. I hope it still helps you until you find proper Islamic information.

    I know that our wonderful religion says that even amongst women, we still have an awrah that we must cover and we should not flaunt ourselves. I think it is sufficient for you sisters to dress appropriately and be able to take off your scarves in these type of settings. It is unfair that you not enjoy your functions due to a select few.

    At the same time, I warn you to please not reveal the identities of these sisters to the host. These are still your sister in Islam and it is your duty to protect their honor as you would wish them to protect yours. For all you know, some of them are sincerely struggling. From personal experience, it is very hurtful to be condemned despite the fact that you do not commit any sins. But let’s say these sisters do commit sins (may Allah forgive them), in such a case it is still your duty as a Muslim to conceal their sins as you would want Allah to conceal yours on the Day of Resurrection. If I were in your shoes, I would reveal this information to the host only if you knew that these sisters come to functions like this to interact with the other girls inappropriately. But even so, please do so in the highest amount of confidence and make a trust with the host that neither one of you will spread this information to others. It is not something that should be talked about or needs to be talked about in the public sphere.

    As a sister that does deal with this on a daily basis and attends functions like the one you’re describing, my personal advice is to dress good but still be modest. For example, cover your awrah, don’t show too much unnecessary skin. Our beauty, at the end of the day, is for our husbands. It is not for these parties or our friends or the mothers of brothers in the community (lol). So the point is to always conceal your beauty to some extent when you’re not with your husband.

    Also, Allah does not hold anyone accountable for their thoughts. Our actions are what Allah punishes for. So let’s say that a sister did wear something that caught the attention of a sister attracted to the same sex and has a few fleeting thoughts. Neither sister did anything wrong because the first sister’s intention was not to cause this problem for the second sister. The second sister, although she should suppress her thoughts as much as possible, did not act upon her desire. Both are safe. The second sister should also at this point lower her gaze from that sister and avoid her.

    Another VERY, VERY important part of SSA is that it is based off of emotional complications. I can almost guarantee you that if the second sister approaches the first sister, gets to talking, realizes she is not an object, but a wonderful human being, then she will no longer be attracted to her. It works out like that for several Muslim brothers and sisters who struggle with SSA that I have spoken to. Of course, there is some level of risk involved in this too. We should always judge our characters the best we can and be mindful of Allah and fear Him.

    and if not, then isn’t it just horrific knowing that someone of the same gender could be having inappropriate thoughts about us?

    You honestly cannot control another’s thoughts. I’m sure a few guys every day think about you. I know that’s disturbing to think of, but it is true. It isn’t necessarily disgusting. It happens naturally and it is something we all need to learn to live with. Men will think of women, women will think of men, and so on. I advise you to just not dwell on it too much (you’ll go crazy!) and give your Muslim sisters the benefit of the doubt and try to not be grossed out by them too much. We try and we often succeed. Think of us the same way you would want to be thought of yourself.

    I would like to end with saying that I’m very happy to see that some sisters out there like yourself actually are concerned with the way they dress at these type of events. I noticed most sisters I know do not care at all even though they know these type of things exist. I’m glad you’re really taking your sisters into consideration. May Allah help you do what is best.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

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    • Amad

      I know this has been mentioned several times, but I absolutely agree that joining a self-help group with other people with similar issues (cured and uncured) can only help. It is ludicrous to think that this is bad because it opens up some strange opportunity for people to find “forbidden love”. I mean, if people are interested in that, why go through all this trouble… they can just check out local personals or join horrible orgs such as al-fitrah, etc. It isn’t any less haraam to do this act with a Muslim! In fact, I reckon those who really wanted to do it, would find it easier on their souls and “culture” to do it with non-Muslims. Sorry for making what seems such obvious points… just a little annoying. Here is group info again (I’ll add it to the post too):

      conviction2change@gmail.com
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle

      P.S. jazakAllahkhair Green Child… your comments are REALLY in line with the spirit of this post. Keep the good stuff coming.

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  112. ALGEBRA

    @Green Child said:

    I also recommend books on Neuro Linguistic Programming, and Pain and pleasure Associations, I especially recommend Anthony Robbins ” Awake The Giant Within” book

    BTW i have read every book of Anthony Robbins and listened to his tapes when they came out in 1993 and also read books on Neuroplasticity………………. and i can say without a doubt…………………..reading the QURAN has helped ME again and again MORE THAN ANY OF THOSE BOOKS MASHALLAH………………………

    SERIOUSLY LISTEN TO THE QURAN……………….

    READ SURAH BAKARAH(RA) AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN…………..
    look at BANI-israel’s example………………….Allah gave them mann salwa and they wanted (lentils)
    Allah has given us men and women for each other and some of us want something that is lesser………………… we have to learn from them
    seriously…………..reading surah bakarah helps one to realize to be grateful and also realize to pray from Allah to not make us the ones that can read the quran and getting nothing out it……………… and that can happen as well and that is scary as hell…………….just that thought is scary as hell…………..seriously……………read it every day.
    salam

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  113. ALGEBRA

    Aslamu-alaikum:

    @annoyed sister

    I can relate to you sister. There was a sister in our community who had lesbian thoughts and she would discuss with my daughter and other girls in the community via the FACE BOOK and my daughter told me about her. I was mortified and i explained to my daughter that i would prefer that she stay away from her at all costs. My daughter, thank ALLAH, was very very objective about it MASHALLAH. My daughter did bring up the fact that she is MUSLIM. I explained to her that she is MUSLIM but I would like you to be around friends that bring you closer to ISLAM. WE ARE ASKED TO CHOOSE GOOD FRIENDS THAT WILL ENCOURAGE US TO DO BETTER AND THE STANDARDS SHOULD ALWAYS BE HIGHER. I really haven’t told any of the other mothers about this girl at all because i didn’t see her do anything with my own eyes, BUT told my daughter to stay away……………. i think i need to have more sympathy for my daughter and her upbringing is more of a HIGHER RESPONSIBILITY on ME than the niceties of dealing with the girl in the community……………….
    Its just sometimes i have thought about telling the other mothers but i have abstained due to being in the wrong by telling them. That has been bothering me but i just have left that. I am soooooooooooo THANKFUL to ALLAH that my daughter came to me and discussed it openly and did not feel like she couldn’t trust me but it can make a mother very very weary of girls as well and that can be really an inconvenience for women gatherings…………..
    salam

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  114. tahir

    ref anonymous sister:

    when in front of women who are not your family it is advisable in any circumstance to cover your self as you would for mehrams, that is you can leave your hands, feets and face uncovered.

    lots of ppl think that it is ok to wear skimpy clothes in front of women, like skirts or tank tops , this is not permissible.

    then there is the case that where non muslims women are present it is better to do full purdah (cover the face also)

    there have been women in history so righteous, like in the the pre partition days Sir Syed Ahmed Khan’s wife met a british colonels wife from a behind a curtain and did not come in front of her. similarly we hear that once a king’s wife was ill and they could find a female muslim doctor to cure her they said there is a christian lady doctor, she inquired “does she drink?” they said ” yes” she said ” then i wont allow her near me.”

    so summing up its not your fault if some muslim women have these thoughts when you are around, you are in no way liable for their thoughts and actions. but it is advisable that you take proper hijab in front of women.

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    • Amad

      Regarding awrah between women, I have never heard that it changes because the other woman’s orientation. I mean this seems to me, an exaggerated reaction and clearly burdensome (are sisters going to check which woman is “straight” and which is not before taking hijabs off?). But clearly worth questioning the Shayookh on, as “seems to me” is clearly not a fiqh position :) The only thing I have heard is that if you are afraid that someone may describe you outside, then you should be careful.

      Br. Tahir, with all due respect, I think we should consult the Shayookh in these fiqhi matters. So, I’d like to ask a Shaykh’s opinion on this issue.

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  115. re women's awrah

    when in front of women who are not your family it is advisable in any circumstance to cover your self as you would for mehrams, that is you can leave your hands, feets and face uncovered???

    In giving advice one should give evidence of what they are saying.

    Allah says:

    And tell the believing women to reduce [some] of their vision and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment except that which [necessarily] appears thereof and to wrap [a portion of] their headcovers over their chests and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons, their husbands’ sons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons, their sisters’ sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.

    The areas of adornment, as stated by the scholars of Islam, are the arms (excluding the shoulders/armpits) legs up to the shin, neck, hair. The rest of the body should be covered and obscured by loose clothes.

    Muslim women/men who have homosexual tendencies are not homosexual. It is haram to alienate them, slander them, etc. That only worsens the problem. However if you see that from a sister that makes you feel uncomfortable uncovering in front of her, then that’s your call. However, you should try to talk to her/help her in any way if you are able to do so. Try to develop a more understanding attitude toward the problems faced by some of your sisters/brothers instead of being merely annoyed.

    Also, bridal showers are an unIslamic custom. It is precisely this habit of adopting the customs/attitudes of the kufaar that land us into the pit we have found ourselves in today.

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  116. tahir

    yes you are right there should be quotes here because these days ppl tend to think everyone is making up stories.

    i will ask the mufti who i study with to give me links which i will post. but what i wrote is based on things i have heard learned men say. Again i do admit that there may be loose ends which need to be tied and one must be careful in the future.. so ignore my comment till i quote you the proper ref point.

    jazak-allah.

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  117. umA

    JazakAllah khayr for this timely post. It was just yesterday that this issue was brought up in my family. In our case we see highschoolers who receive pro gay messages via the media or even at school and don’t know what to think. The other blog, ‘eye on gay muslims’ gave a nice accessible summary in its ‘about’ section on what to say to fellow Muslims who are confused about the issue.

    http://gaymuslims.wordpress.com/about/

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  118. Yasir Qadhi

    Salaam

    Re women covering in front of others, the Shariah would not require one to go out of one’s way to ‘find out’ whether someone has certain tendencies or not. Rather to do so would be extremism. Also, if it is known that someone does have SSA, in and of itself it would not require that other women (if its a woman involved) wear full hijab. Really the only case this would be required is one in which it is well known or at least presumed based upon some past experience that a specific person will do something inappropriate. The beauty of our religion is that we don’t base rulings on mere feelings or suspicion, and it is not our job to ‘open up’ people’s hearts and see what plagues them.

    I believe Sr. Conviction@Change says it best when she says to act normal and Islamic around people and that should be sufficient for our daily lives.

    Yasir

    PS – It goes without saying that wearing extremely tight clothing, especially around the awrah areas, is haram anyway, even around people of the same gender, regardless of whether a specific person has SSA or not.

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  119. ALGEBRA

    SHAYK YASIR
    Aslamu-alaikum:
    You forgot to answer @ibnkhalil’s questions. I would really appreciate it if you would answer his questions
    thank you
    salam

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  120. Sister: No nonsense, Please!

    -Comment Removed
    Sister: as an editorial decision, this thread is closed to your comments. We appreciate how you feel about this issue, but believe that it is no longer constructive to argue down this road. You may disagree with this and you have a right to. But we have to go by what we as a shura believe. We apologize for any hard feelings that this may cause you.

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  121. anonymous

    Thank goodness she was finally stopped! I was about to stop reading the thread due to her NONSENSE (no pun intended lol)

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  122. fshareef

    @ Sister: No nonsense, Please!: in re your comment –

    “Research investingating wacko hypotheses [of] anti-fitrah inclinations should stop. And Muslims probing psychological explanations for anti-fitrah behavior seriously need to relax!”

    why someone would act against their fitrah is a completely psychological question. whether it’s regarding social behavior (doing good deeds, committing sins) or personal beliefs (islam, kufr, shirk, nifaq), the fitrah is the psychological norm, according to islam. deviations from the fitrah – or as you pointed, the anti-fitrah – have always been studied with regards to personal beliefs, and they continue to be studied in islamic circles to great depth. with regards to social behavior, deviations from the fitrah have been studied by many scholars. however, over the past couple centuries of students of knowledge and “lay-muslims”, there has been an overwhelming emphasis on deviations from the fitrah in regards to personal beliefs. this lack of consideration for deviations from the fitrah in regards to social behavior may have led to the proliferation of sins in muslim lands that we find today.

    so, in “relaxing” from developing methods of prevention of fitrah-deviant behavior, one would be going against the motto of the Best Nation:

    “You are the best of people ever raised up for mankind; you enjoin Al-Ma’ruf and forbid Al-Munkar, and you believe in Allah.” Quran 3:110

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  123. Celibate_Guy

    Assalamo Alykom My Brothers and Sisters
    Thank you for your comments and may Allah SWT rewards you.

    First of all I am a guy with SSA “Same Sex Attraction”.You call it Homosexuality.I am 26 years old and Allhamdullah I have EVER NEVER committed any homosexual acts.I have homosexual temptations since my very early childhood,may be since the age of 4 years old.

    Actually I miss here the psychological explanation of homosexuality and why someone have these desires.
    I would like to refer to some websites which deal with the homosexuality as a psychological problem

    National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality
    http://www.narth.com

    This is an excellent website talking about SSA”homosexuality” in a very simple langauge
    http://www.samesexattraction.org

    This is another websites features the stories of ex gay men who could leave homosexuality by both psychological therapy and faith.
    http://www.peoplecanchange.com

    Brother Tahir
    Please contact me via email
    celibate.gay25@yahoo.com

    Thank you all
    Salam

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  124. Green Child

    @ Algebra

    I also recommend books on Neuro Linguistic Programming, and Pain and pleasure Associations, I especially recommend Anthony Robbins ” Awake The Giant Within” book

    You’re absolutely right, there is no substitution for the word of Allah Subhanuatala, but these types of books do help you understand the way our minds work, and therefore can be beneficial to us. But again, there is no alternative to the Quran.

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  125. Celibate_Guy

    I would like to discuss causes of homosexuality as I understand from my readings about homosexuality.
    Many professionals think that homosexuality is caused by multiple factors combine together to cause someone to develop homosexual orientation.These factors are categorized as:

    1-Biological factors. we shold know that this is a very controversial issue as many people think genes and brain structure can make you gay or straight while many other professionals think that biology has nothing to do with our sexuality but there are some other biofactors that play a “role” in making someone “to be ready” to develop homosexual tendencies “i.e.prenatal hormones during pregnancy is a well accepted theory by many psychotherapists.”

    2-Social and environmental factors.Like father- son relationship and mother- son relationship,relationships with bro and sis and peers.

    3-Sexual abuse

    You can read more about these factors in the above websites which I sent in a previous post and also if you followed this link
    http://www.samesexattraction.org/development.htm

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    • Ahmed

      What a disgusting generalization!

      There are brothers and sisters who grow up in the same family with same upbringing but ended up having different sexual orientations.

      Homosexuality is just a part of the normal spectrum of human sexuality. Every gay men or women has exactly the same capacity to be happy and productive as human beings just like their heterosexual counterparts. Homosexuality is not an obstacle to happiness. Homophobia is.

      It is precisely this homophobia that is so pervasive in Islam that makes life so difficult for and destroys the lives of many gay muslims.

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  126. student

    This isn’t a very central point, but on the difference (in punishment and gravity of the sin) between lesbian acts and sodomy, it isn’t clear to me from some of the links and points mentioned above that maintaining this distinction is anything based on anything but cultural understandings of sexuality. For example, DE says:

    From what I remember, Shaykh bin Baaz (rahimahullah) explained that the punishment for lesbianism is not the same as for sodomy because there is no actual act of penetration of the private parts.

    The hadd punishment in the case of adultery, fornication, and sodomy all revolve around the evidence/confession of the actual act of penetration.

    [Apologies for being somewhat graphic, but...] Well, what constitutes penetration? If it is of one sexual organ into another, than only heterosexual relations involve penetration. If you broaden the definition of penetration, it applies to both male and female homosexual acts. But it seems that what is really at play here (in believing sodomy to be worse than lesbian acts) is some cultural aversion to the notion of a man being penetrated. The textual proofs do not (as far as I can see) provide much grounds for the distinction otherwise.

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  127. A1K

    Perhaps you are aware that Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah has dealt in some detail with what I would like to term the psychological motivations behind homosexuality – indeed sexual addictions in general – in a few of his books.

    The first book is al-Jawab ul-Kafi (also known as ad-Daa wad-Dawaa). The book begins with a question posed by a troubled soul. Ibn al-Qayyim is asked by an individual how can he rid himself of a particular sin which he finds himself drawn to over and over. Ibn al-Qayyim begins with a discussion on du’a and then proceeds to discuss sin in general pointing out the many evil effects of sins. It is only toward the end of the book that Ibn al-Qayyim alludes that perhaps the sin in question is that of homosexuality. He then provides a psychological analysis of homosexuality and how one may cure himself from that specific sin. In summary, Ibn al-Qayyim’s thesis is that this sin is caused due to a lack of tawheed whereby love of an image (in this case the male form) has occupied the heart instead of love of Allah which results from knowledge of His Names and Attributes.

    The second book by Ibn al-Qayyim that i would like to direct you to is Igathatu-lahfan. This book addresses the various snares and tricks of satan. However, it is prefaced with a discussion of the human heart’s various manifestations: healthy, diseased and dead. In one paragraph Ibn al-Qayyim addresses the question of homosexuality, can health be restored to the heart after its practise? Or is the sin so ruinous to the fitrah that it is inconceivable that a person could repent and recover from it? Ibn al-Qayyim observes that while the sin is indeed so ruinous to the fitrah that repentance and restoration of the heart’s health is a very difficult task; however, with Allah’s assistance anything is achievable.

    The third book is Ibn al-Qayyim’s treatise on love: Rawdatul-Muhibbeen where he discusses the nature of love in general. It is my belief that if one was to read this book carefully one could construct a theory – an Islamic one – on addictions in general and sexual addictions in particular.

    Two more books by Ibn al-Qayyim that need to be pointed out: Zaad ul-Ma’ad in the section on the guidance of the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam regarding medicine, Ibn al-Qayyim makes an interesting remark on sexual deviation – and intercourse with women. Ibn al-Qayyim says that those who engage in this practise can be “picked out” by changes in their appearance due to this sin! In other words, as this sin goes against the fitrah (the inner nature), it results in a change in the outer physical nature of those who perform it.

    The second book is Shifaa ul-Aleel. In one chapter Ibn al-Qayyim discusses how Allah has guided each creature to its needs. He then points out the various forms of guidance given to ants, bees, etc. When discussing the guidance given to pigeons, Ibn al-Qayyim remarks that among animals pigeons resemble human beings the most in their sexual behaviours and preferences. He states that there are those female pigeons who remain faithful to their mates while others allow any male pigeon to have sex with them. He even says there are “lesbian” and “homosexual” pigeons!

    I am not sure if this is all ovservable among pigeons or not, but i do recollect coming across a book years ago I believe the title was Exhuberance) which discussed homosexual behaviours among animals. Whether it mentioned pigeons or not I don’t recall. So there are five references by Ibn al-Qayyim on the issue of homosexuality.

    There are two other books on sexual behaviour from an Islamic perspective that you may find useful. One is by Ibn Hazm called Tawq ul-Hama which has been translated by Arberry with the title of “The Ring of the Dove”. In it Ibn Hazm discusses various aspects of the emotion of love. The second book is part of al-Ghazzali’s Ihya Ulum ud-Din rahimahullah. It is the Book of Breaking the Two Desires (being the stomach and the private parts). It is available in English from the Islamic Texts Society as you may be aware.

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  128. UmmeAmmaarah

    WOW! MashaAllah…what a response, and JazakAllahu Khair Sheikh Yasir for addressing this issue…. I have always wondered what Islamic rulings are about such issues, especially, as being a student of medicine, I came across so many gender disorders, and wondered how difficult their lives must be, what they must go through everyday…
    All i can say is that Allah will test people in different ways, and no doubt, some must be really inclined in different ways, but there’s no doubt that this ‘sexual explosion’ around us is contributing majorly to the problem….. just today my friend was telling me that as part of a reading programme, her fourth-grader came home with two books – one about how ‘normal’ a lesbian ‘family’ is, and the other about ‘Valentine’s Day’. I know for a fact that as a kid, even watching something like an on-screen kiss would make us squirm in our seats, but shameful as it is, now I guess I could probably sit with my mom and ‘not squirm as much’……. I know for a fact that fiction shaped all my beliefs of what ‘love’, and ‘sex’, and ‘marriage’ should be like…..and honestly, may Allah Ta’Ala help us all and make us of the muttaqoon, but seeing teenagers kiss on kerb, sexually explicit adverts, no longer does anything to me….just nothing…it’s that normal! and honestly, i dunno how real/how much of a conspiracy theory this is, but it’s been said by a lot of places that the reason that such explosion of sexuality is being promoted is so that people become so miserable in their personal lives, that they have no time to take a peek out of their complicated and emotionally wrecked lives to actually see what’s going on in the world around them…wallahu aalam.
    May Allah Ta’Ala help those of us in every kind of misery, sexual or otherwise….whether it be same-sex attraction, no attraction or excesses of it, in marriages and outside of it…..

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  129. A1K

    Of course i should not leave out – indeed it would have been more proper to begin with this – those verses in the Qur’an which discuss the of people of Lut alaihis-salaam. One ayah which comes to mind … is Allah’s statement:

    “Verily, by your life (O Prophet) in their **intoxication** they are blinded.” [15:72]

    I wonder if there are any neurological studies done that show if the same areas of the brain that motivate substance abuse also motivate sexual addictions and in particular homosexuality? I believe i read something about the same ‘pleasure’ neurotransmitter being released during sex as well as intoxication. But i’m looking for something more specific actually: brain sites being triggered. Perhaps Umme Amaarah or others from a medical background can comment?

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  130. Ibn Mikdad

    While we are at it, would someone from MM staff care to write an article about Western hypocrisy with regards to female circumcision? I say this because there exist in the West a surgical procedure called “hoodectomy” or “clitoral unhooding”; it is incerasingly gaining popularity among the women in the West since it improves their love life and prevents certain genital infection. The catch is, IT IS THE ENTIRELY THE SAME PROCEDURE KNOW AS “FEMALE CLITORAL CIRCUMCISION” WHICH IS CONSIDERED BY SOME MUSLIM SCHOLARS TO BE A SUNNAH BUT FOR WHICH MUSLIMS ARE BEING MOCKED, ATTACKED, CRITICIZED AND CONSIDERED SAVAGE! An excerpt from a website dedicated to this procedure (http://www.clitoralunhooding.com/ warning: indecency on top of the page) :

    “Clitoral Unhooding, also referred to as Hoodectomy, is a minor feminine genital surgical procedure to remove excess Prepuce tissue—the surrounding “hood” that sheaths the clitoral node on three sides… …Sometimes referred to as female clitoral circumcision, the Clitoral Unhooding procedure is somewhat analogous to penile circumcision in men, although male penile circumcision is still primarily performed from a perspective of genital hygiene. In women, however, Hoodectomy is done more commonly to allow women to experience heightened arousal, by reducing the tissue that forms the hood (Prepuce) covering the clitoris . . . almost always resulting in greater, faster orgasms. To some extent it has been suspected that excessive Prepuce tissue can also result in some hygiene-related issues as well for women, giving sanctuary to increased bacterial counts, and sometimes resulting in what are commonly termed “yeast” or vaginal infections from the close proximity to the vaginal canal.”

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    • Ahmed Wazir

      I believe that Ibn Mikdad has raised a very pertinent point. I must confess that I was once an opponent of female circumcision as I was under a wrong impression that it involved removing the clitoris and was meant to reduce female sexual feeling. A reputed scholar has since cleared my doubts as to what is actually required in Islam ( that is the removal only of the prepuce of the clitoris) and its purpose (to enhance rather than reduce female sex feeling ) and I have since embraced the idea that it is good and necessary for our Muslim sisters. There is an interesting article on the Islamic view of this in http://www.geocities.com/hoodectomy which gives religious, health and sexological reasons as to why it should be done.

      Salaams

      Ahmed

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  131. tahir

    celibate-guy i think you need to contact some learned person that can answer your questions and help you deal with such issues.

    i’m not at all well versed in such issues and contacting me would be a waste of time.

    i pray that Allah strengthens your resolve in not acting on such instincts and that you get rid of these urges asap.

    there is a dua for waswasa and i will scan it and mail to you, read that whenever you get such ideas and also reading

    AMANTU BILLAHI WA ROOSALIHI

    is prescribed when you are plagued by any vile thoughts

    wasalam

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    • Amad

      Tahir, “Celibate-guy” didn’t mean for you to contact him, rather Taahir (the person who had added a comment much earlier and who is dealing with this issue).

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  132. tahir

    well he wrote “tahir” not “taahir” hence the misunderstanding.

    so celibate-guy please contact taahir.

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  133. UmmeAmmaarah

    a masnoon dua from The Fortress of the Muslim which i just love and hope will help everyone, no mater what their waswasaa is:

    Allaahumma rahmatak’arjuu fa laa takilnee ilaa nafsee tarfata ayunin, wa aslih lee sha’nee kullahu, laa ilaaha illa Anta.
    ‘Oh our Lord, I beseech Your Mercy, and do not leave me to my nafs for the blink of an eye, and correct for me, all my affairs, there is no one worthy of worship, but You’

    I consider this book ‘My little black book’, opening it up whenever i feel sad/happy…and making du’a from it gives my heart a lot of ‘sukoon’.

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  134. sequoia

    Very Interesting Discussion……

    As someone who is coming closer and closer to Islam, I find this discussion very insightful.

    my opinion (with absolutely no scholary work to back me up :))))))

    i think it is absolutely great the people on this board who may not agree with the struggles these men have, but nonetheless are supportive to their struggles. We all commit sins, we all struggle with issues and can all do better in our daily lives. Those who look to understand and comfort people who are struggling do more help than sometimes they understand. I have never experienced an attraction to men but I sympatheize with those that go through this hardship. May everyone find peace in their heart and strive everyday to better themselves

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    • Amad

      Sequoia, welcome back! You are one of our favorite commentators, and we miss your participation.

      I think God keeps bringing you to Muslim Matters, so perhaps its a sign for you to be part of our matters too :) We are always available, by phone, email or any other means to assist you in answering any remaining questions or conflicts you may have about Islam. I recognize the need for careful thought and contemplation, but we all recognize that our end time is also written. So, don’t delay what you may already feel is inevitable :) You can reach me by emailing info at muslimmatters dot/org and I can reply or one of the converts can reply who may have more authority to understand your situation.

      Take care, and PLEASE do not be a stranger.

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  135. Celibate_Guy

    Allhamdullah I could find some help here in my country.

    I was talking with a canadian psychotherapist online for a long time and few days ago I visited a christian psychiatrist.

    Actually I was aiming to help brother “Tahir” / “Taahir”.

    N.B. some comments here about SSA “Same Sex Attraction” are completely wrong and I think those people who wrote it didn’t try to bother themselves by making sure of the reality of what they write and didn’t even tyr to search in Google for example to know if they really understand what homosexuality is.

    Suppose there is a child or a teenager living in a place where “images” of naked men and women are displayed every where.

    How can these images destroy his true sexuality and convert him to be “Gay”?

    How can these images make him to be feminine in his behavior and to feminize his thoughts and sexual desires?

    How can these images make him wish to have a sexual intercourse with another man and to be the negative partener during sex with the other man as if he was a female?

    N.B. Allhamdullah I think that I love Allah SWT and his Prophet Muhammad.

    N.B. I pray all the 5 prays since I was 13 years old.

    N.B. I pray all the 5 prays everyday in Masjid since last summer.And of course before that I was praying them but at my home.

    I think I am a good muslim Allhamdullah

    I hope that some people here should bother themselves a little bit to read about homosexuality through professional websites and books by professionals.

    Thank you

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    • Abdul

      You know what i think God made people gay intentionally in order to test them as to whether they will obey him or their desires…simple as that

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  136. Abu Rumaisa

    Re: Saudi Arabian youth,
    It’s a myth to believe that many of these youth have “never seen a non-relative woman in their life”. They see it through their satellite televisions and the internet and therefore have the sexual energy pent up in them. I think that, coupled with the difficulty in getting married, explains why homosexual activity exists there (although I would be very interested in seeing statistics behind the claims that it is very high there relative to the West).

    I agree with this post…

    Having lived in Saudi till I was 23 yrs, I don’t think segregation causes Saudi youth to be gay. There’s a significant minority of youth who indulge in this behaviour but I wouldn’t call them ‘gay’ as they go on to marry women and don’t get involved in such activities again. And if the same person gets a chance to indulge in fornication with a female, he does that rather than go with an another male.

    Why do they indulge in such acts? It’s quite simple from my observation – they are not immune to the overtly sexual media.. with all these images in their head, their sexual desires are heightened and since for most young men access to a female for physical relationship is not easy (both halaal & Haraam – Halaal due to difficulties in getting married & haraam as it’s easier to get caught), they indulge in gay relationships (merely physical). If the Saudi society were to remove segregation & go easy on the whole dating aspect… u would see a drop in gay behaviour & exponential rise in this other haraam.

    One of the biggest problems why Saudi kids again get involved in this the attitude of police – Saudi youth r immune from law as long as no Saudi female is harassed.

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    • Abdul

      I think homosexuality is on the increase everywhere. This might be happening because more people are coming out and openly practicing it or since the population of the planet is increasing rapidly so too the number of people who identify themselves as “gay”

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  137. Selema

    Sister no nonsense it is clear from your posts that you do have knowledge and understanding of the religion. That is a blessing and you could be a valuable contributor on this site but there is room for learning and improving. It is from the way of the companions that they would not ask so many questions and would have an open mind. I speak to myself first when I advise you or any of my Muslim brothers or sisters.
    Regarding the topic being discussed, it is understandable that any Muslim (and most normal ppl) would feel very harshly abt it but condemning ppl is not the solution here. I think one of the things you had a problem with were that Sh.Qadhi apologized for bashing gays. To someone like you or me there is nothing wrong in that, and it may even be a good thing for some ppl with strong faith in Allah who may have ‘homosexual’ feelings or tendencies. If however, someone that is not very practicing or does not have a strong Islamic foundation were to hear his remarks, he may feel like he has no place in Islam and that may lead him to become very reluctant towards the religion.
    I hope that helps. :)

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  138. Conviction2Change

    Salam dear sister Saleema,

    Thank you for that on-the-dot, kind response. I hope we all take a lesson or two from your words.

    I want to comment on the part you said that it may even be a good thing for those of us who experience SSA to hear harsh remarks made against gays in open public Islamic settings. I disagree with that.

    For the very vast majority of my life I did deal with this issue very strictly but when I used to hear community leaders, respected brothers and sisters, or even my family and friends say how disgraceful homosexuals were and how they have no place in this world… I would just feel more and more ashamed and isolated for merely having fleeting thoughts about the same sex.

    At some point I thought it was best a person like me leave Islam. I thought that is what Muslims wanted and what Allah wanted me to do as well. I was very confused. I don’t want to go into any details of how close I came to doing so despite the fact that I pray five times a day, fast in Ramadan and beyond, wear proper Islamic dressing, and do not appear to be any different than the next devout Muslimah. Slowly, Allah guided me back to what was the proper course of action and I didn’t leave and only became stronger in my Islam, but this is just one example of how words can really send sharp blades through the most sincerely struggling Muslims.

    It is important that we shun the act of sodomy (including that of lesbians), but it isn’t necessary that we shun the people for simply feeling this way. We do not act upon it. We are struggling every day and want to move on, get married to the opposite sex, and raise beautiful pious children. Let us spend more time praying for one another than saying how bad one another’s “tendencies” are. We all recognize they are not normal and should not be promoted. We’re doing our job on working on it. Now we just need your prayers. :)

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

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    • Hyde

      Okay I was pensive with your comments but your last paragraph has won me over :)

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  139. AsimG

    Question:

    For those that have desires, what do you want from the Muslim community and how can other Muslims help you?

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  140. New Fad vs. Epidemic

    Being born and raised in America I can honestly say when I was even in 9th grade the idea of knowing someone who was homosexual was a such a derogatory idea. But before i knew it, almost being done with college, there’s a huge array of the flamboyant homosexuals and the timid ones that have still not “come out of the closet”. The question that occurred to me after reading this article is where to draw the line between sympathizing and accepting this issue in Islamic boundaries, because clearly in American boundaries it has been both sympathized and accepted.

    Clearly, it is evident this matter is forbidden in Islamic principles , but the “thought” of it is not. Even heterosexuals have thoughts of the opposite gender, and god knowing, do not act upon them. The criticism i have is the way some people have there upbringing, which if analyzed, would make perfect sense of their homosexual thoughts. Lets all sit for a minute and have a homosexual thought, no really, have it…..had it? Now this is no way reflects your sexual orientation, even if you continue having it.

    I went to a public high school, all my non-muslim friends had boyfriends, and when i went to Sunday school, all my Muslim friends snickered about boys they couldn’t be friends with. The similarities i noted in both environments was gender segregation. In the American schools, genders were separated during gym class when we had to change into our gym clothes, but we (all girls in one locker room, all guys in another) dressed and undressed in front of one another, and if on a sporting team, showered as well. This principle was permitted and acceptable. In sunday school, during class, lunch break, wait…everything, “brothers and sisters” were to be separate! Several flaws in this system existed because I honestly had NO idea why.
    I was young, but looking back I have been educated on why this matter was so important through hadith and quran. But today’s world has our parents of one generation not being able to speak our language and explain to us why we were always told “lower your gaze”, “no interaction unless necessary”, “dress modestly”, which I agree with now yes after learning the principle behind it.

    Several of our youth organizations in the community have interesting topics of marriage, love, relationships, this makes us feel all bubbly and cheery inside because its a taboo topic with our parents and older generation. Fact: Promoting this topic is NOT the answer. Discussing this topic publicly and always suggesting that marriage is the answer, is anything BUT the answer. The different forms of gender segregation that existed in my youth, and probably several others, most likely caused confusion and through our racing hormones maybe some of us had felt that subconsciously thinking of the opposite gender was even wrong
    I’m not a psychoanalyst, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere with our inner strength of being muslims. I’m not the most practicing Muslim, but I try to improve myself day to day with my inner strength. I am very well fit to being married, and inshallah will be, but sometimes i feel this terminology is tossed around so lightly and promotes more fitnah in our community and more fear for those who simply aren’t ready. Lets face it, with the generation and technological gap, several youth in our community have found the loop holes to hide their significant other from their parents, they have this fantasy that O-M-G im gonna marry him/her. Although your physical needs may become halal through marriage, please do not dismiss the fact marriage is for this world and the after world, this is your duty as a Muslim to be content that you can mentally handle the thought of being a spouse and be emotionally ready to handle the ups and downs with maturity. Now when our parents eventually find out about our significant other, ( and they always do) , do they sympathize and accept it? NO they take our cell phones, disconnect our internet and give us a nice slap of reality that we are not old enough to handle the thought of marriage at our young age (and i’m sorry they are RIGHT), and disappointed in us for sinning this way.

    Not to go off my tangent, but we all agree about homosexuality being forbidden, starting to sympathize is just the beginning.Understanding our upbringing plays a huge role in who you are as a person today, whether you’re straight or gay. I am not saying if you don’t give your sympathy you are being disrespectful and pushing away our brothers/sisters from Islam who are feeling they are homosexuals, this issue can be addressed , CURED, and forgotten inshallah. Remember, after reading this we all had a homosexual thought, so this does not mean we are gay. It starts with one thought, and could turn into several thoughts, but with the strength in our deen, values, history, and simply Islam, realize our mistake, correct it, and move ahead to having actions that are pleasing to allah swt. Easier said than done, but bismilallah it can be done.

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  141. Celibate_Guy

    Salam

    Actually I meant brother Taahir to contact me.

    Sorry,I didn’t notice that we have Tahir & Taahir

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  142. Celibate_Guy

    Dear AsimG

    Thank you for raising this questione and I will try to answer it from my own perspective.

    Pesonally I want from the muslim community 2 things:

    1-Understanding
    2-Acceptance

    For the first demand I hope that the muslim community can understand the difference between “Homosexuality” and “Same Sex Attraction/SSA“.

    For example,when someone here talked about “youth in saudi arabia“,those youth do”homosexual acts“,BUT they do NOT suffer from Same Sex Attraction.
    They just want to have sex by any mean with anybody.

    On the other hand there are many muslims like me and brother Taahir suffering from Same Sex Attraction BUT we do NOT do homosexual acts.

    There is another part concerning understanding,it is knowledge and reading about Same Sex Attraction and homosexuality thorough professional books and websites like those which I refered to above i previous posts.

    I hope every muslim would know that “Homosexuality/SSA is NOT a choice” .

    Alas there is a muslim woman who have some activities in the muslim community in europe or may be in north america and she wrote a very long article on Islamonline webstie claiming that “homosexuality is a choice”.
    This is UNFAIR.

    The second demand from my own perspective is acceptance.

    Acceptance is a very important part of healing homosexual desires as many homosexuals were rejected during their early childhood by their parents or one of them and then were rejected by their peers becuase they showed some difference in behavior.As you know some ssa boys can act like a girl so their peers reject them for that and so on

    If you want to know more about this point you can read what psychotherapitst say.

    Actually I would like to ask everyone here a questione. Do you have any ssa/homosexual relatives?Do you have ssa/homosexual brother or sister,nephew or niece?

    I think you can NOT answer this question becuase you really do NOT know and you will NOT be able to know.

    so stop cursing and attacking ssa/homosexuals becuase may be your brother or sister or niece or nephew or your son/dausghter is suffering from ssa/homosexuality and you don’t know.

    Thank you
    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  143. Saleema

    Conviction2change, there is a reason why Allah the ayat in the Quran against the ppl of Lut are so strong. If someone with homosexual feelings were to read them (although of course they didnt just have the feelings, they acted upon them in a horrible manner AND more importantly rejected Allah’s Prophet) don’ you think they would feel ashamed and a strong determination to change? As far as I can see, If a person with strong belief and fear of Allah were to hear remarks against gays this should not cause him to feel like he has no place in Islam any more than a thief would if he heard talk against stealing. If a person does feel that way, he probably has some sickness of the heart, hence my comment abt refraining from making such remarks in public as it may cause problems for some ppl of weak Eman and Taqwa of Allah.

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  144. moi

    AOA

    i like the idea that a question which a person asked a particular shaykh was put on the website so that ppl who have same issues can read it and take heed.

    but this whole discussion that is following just sensationalizes the issue and those ppl that are suffering from these waswasa are actually trying to come up with excuses and physco analysis and what not. i think this is plain foolish.

    a learned man has already stated his opinion in the article all you can do now is follow his advice or not. there is no room to ask questions and attack the same problem from diff angles. i think this was a way of the jews that when they asked a question about a problem and clear instructions came from Allah they would ask stupid questions and try to delay the issue by posing new and strange questions. basically trying to justify and come with a way to prove themselves right or not do what Allah had said.

    we should not follow their examples. this whole problem is summed up as follows, there is no such thing as homosexuality, if someone has such tendencies its clearly from shaytan, that person should repent and give max coverage to fullfilling his duties in islam salat, zakat, haj etc… they should learn some dua’s from sunnah that are prescribed for waswasa etc ummeammarah narrated a very good one above. do
    not think about it at all… they say when you keep on thinking and thinking thoughts become actions.

    i hope that made some sense. may Allah forgive me and all the ummah and help us at this weak stage where our emans are under attack and evil has surrounded us.

    Wasalam

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  145. Abû Mûsâ Al-Ḥabashî

    This might have already been said, but I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that I was touched by reading your comments Conviction2Change. May Allâh bless you and make your affairs easy. Aameen.

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  146. fshareef

    @ moi: good point… with two exceptions

    1) “a learned man” should be “a man of knowledge”, because “learned man” assumes that there is absolutely nothing more for the man to learn on the topic. of course, the man could choose to not learn anything more on the topic, but that’s a separate issue.

    2) “there is no room to ask questions and attack the same problem from diff angles.”
    no two “problem”(s)/situations are alike. they may be similar, but never the same. that’s why fiqh developed.

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  147. Conviction2Change

    Salam dear brothers and sisters,

    Insha Allah I will respond to moi and sister Saleema in this post and to brother AsimG in the next one.

    Firstly, dear moi, so what exactly is the plan of action that you are suggesting to us? I have read the shaykh’s article and I like it very much. I have taken knowledge from this shaykh for a very, very long time. I am grateful he wrote this article on Muslim Matters. I pray that he and other people of knowledge continue on this path of raising awareness for all Muslims dealing with all sorts of trials. What you are saying is that we do not try hard enough and we keep looking for solutions in different ways and therefore we are similar to the Jews? Really? Well I am happy to inform you I am your Muslim sister in Islam, I started this post off with saying salam to you, I hope we are on the same page about me not being a Jew and that I have never worshiped a golden calf. :) What we are doing by analyzing our emotions and psychological states is to understand root causes of our SSA. My SSA was caused by neglect, sexual molestation, disliking womanhood with a strong passion, and gravitating towards the male gender. If I had more time and more ears that were willing to listen to all of this I would explain further why these things have caused my SSA, but now is not the time. So, are these all the things that caused my SSA? Not really, there’s more that I’m not mentioning. These are just a few examples. Islam doesn’t really teach us how to overcome a situation of sexual molestation. What I learn from Islam is that I need to trust Allah, be patient, and strive to overcome the depression caused by things like this. What I learn from psychology is how to reconstruct my emotional state therefore overcome my sexual problems. So what do I do? I take what Islam teaches me, and I put it in my heart, and I take what secular knowledge teaches me and I put it in my hands, and I get to work. When we are sick with the cough, do we only put our faith in Allah and pray our cough goes away? Or do we remember Allah and also take cough syrup? We take the medicine too of course. Our psychological remedies are the same as a medicine but at the same time we put a lot of faith in Allah, we research on Islam, we remind ourselves of Hell, Qawm Lut, all of these things and we strive.

    Then to clarify with sister Saleema, my question to you is: what is so bad about having feelings? Yes, they’re not normal and they should not be left there because we all know feelings become thoughts and thoughts become actions and those actions are sins. But why are we poking fun at our brothers and sisters because they have an illness in their hearts, rather than being compassionate and lending a hand to them? I also think you and I are on two different pages in that I thought in the beginning you were referencing to someone else’s post about how shaykhs shouldn’t make fun of homosexuals. We were not talking about the verses in the Quran about Qawm Lut. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with telling people the story of Qawm Lut and condemning the ACTS they used to do. All I’m saying is that we shouldn’t be made fun of, we shouldn’t be cast aside, and we shouldn’t be thought of as weak. If you were to speak with a lot of the brothers and sisters on the Straight Struggle group you would only then realize how intelligent and steadfast upon Islam these brothers and sisters are.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  148. Conviction2Change

    Salam brother Abû Mûsâ Al-Ḥabashî,

    I think I speak for all of the brothers and sisters who are struggling when I say that I’m very grateful for the support that brothers and sisters like you show for us. You recognize our strife and commend our efforts. Not everyone has a heart like that for us. May Allah be pleased with you in all that you do for his Sake.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  149. Celibate_Guy

    to moi

    SSA “Same Sex Attraction” is NOT waswas.It is dDevelopmental Disorder from the psychological point of view due to emotionl wounds and trauma.

    And plaese stop accusing others of having a weak Iman.Allah SWT is the only one who knows who has a strong Iman and who has a weak Iman.

    to fashareef

    Thank you for your video although I didn’t watch and I won’t, But I wonder if you really want to help people with ssa with this video,why didn’t you look for some videos by psychiatrists or psychologists about psychotherapy of homosexuality???

    A Word For Those Who Attack SSA People

    Do you think that by attacking us you will feel better?

    Do you think that accusing us by having a weak Iman,will make you have a stronger Iman?

    Do you think that accusing us by something that we didn’t choose and cursing us will pave your way to paradise?

    I GUESS NOT

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  150. Conviction2Change

    Salam brother AsimG,

    I think brother Celibate_Guy wrote a very good response. I will just add on a few more of my points.

    1 – I want to be seen as a Muslim. I am no one other than a Muslim, I do not want to be treated as anything other than so.

    2 – I want to be treated as a human. I have been treated like dirt by other Muslims in the past because of my SSA. It was unfair especially because I do not act upon it and I take several precautions to save myself from even feeling the initial attraction. If these Muslims knew what I do on a daily basis, on an hourly basis, to mentally, physically, and emotionally prepare myself so that shaytan cannot get to me, they would be stunned.

    3 – You do not have to be my friend. Some people who feel uncomfortable about my attractions do not keep close relations with me and at the same time they do not judge me or treat me wrongly. Even though I will never act upon this, I don’t want anyone feeling awkward. You are more than welcome to keep your distance. All I ask is that you not speak ill about me amongst other Muslims.

    4 – If nothing else, please pray for us. This Ummah is like a body and when one part of it feels the fever and insomnia, then the rest of the body feels it too. I know you all must feel to some fractional degree what we’re suffering through. Make dua for us, that Allah help us overcome this, because it IS possible. We will overcome. We could use all the help we can get.

    5 – Sisters (and brothers) should dress appropriately. I know another sister already mentioned how awkward she feels at sisters only gatherings. I also feel awkward when other sisters are wearing clothing that doesn’t cover their thighs, stomachs, and even chests. More of their bodies are showing than what is covered. This is not even Islamic dress.

    6 – Brothers and sisters should realize we’re not attracted to ALL of you. Don’t flatter yourselves. :) This is a little too advanced SSA for most of you, but another important part of understanding SSA is that we have emotional attractions. Physical attractions are secondary.

    7 – Give us the benefit of the doubt. I always avoid going to sister only gatherings because I do put myself in the shoes of others such as “annoyed sister” from these comments and I understand why you would feel uncomfortable with someone like me there. I know I won’t do anything. I know I’ll do everything in my power to not get attracted and if I made a mistake of not lowering my gaze properly, I will repent to Allah for it and start cleansing my mind and heart as soon as I leave the gathering. Believe me when I say that I do not enjoy it. To see someone I am attracted to is more like a punishment than anything else. When I’m attracted, I know there is something wrong in my heart. I fear I’m not longer as close to Allah as I was. I realize I’m not as strong as I thought I was. I start back from the beginning and work through my emotions until I figure out what triggered the attraction. Until I do, I confine myself in solitude. I don’t go near anyone. I don’t talk to a lot of people. I have a duty to my Muslim sisters and I will not fail.

    8 – Straight people should not jokingly act like homosexuals. It is a game in Saudi Arabia but it is also a game here. Just for “fun” sisters will play around with each other, physically. Brothers do it as well. I know some do it just to experiment or have fun or see “how far you can go” but it is truly disgusting. This can really scar some people into starting to form SSA. Also, when you pull one of us into your games, then what? We already feel this way and now you’re making us act upon it. Getting out of these situations is very difficult. When I was in school, my Muslims friends would just be joking around and throwing themselves on me. What am I supposed to do? Of course I would always get away and I would be very scared. But why are you putting us in this position? Please don’t do this, even in joking.

    9 – Recognize our struggle. We are working very hard. We’re not going astray like the Jews or any other group of people who do not even believe in Allah. Everything we do, we do it for Allah. If Allah had not told me in the Quran that I was not allowed to act upon such desires, then do you really think I would bother? This struggle is so emotionally, mentally, and even physically tiring and painful at times that the only thing that keeps me going when I’m having a very bad day (which is seldom now) and I feel like no one in this world cares for me, I just remember myself that I’m doing this for Allah. No one sees my pain but Allah. No one can understand how it feels except Allah. After all Allah has done for me, constantly saving me so many times in my life, how then can I not do this SMALL act of worship for him? Allah his not asking much from us. We’re struggling like you struggle and like how every Muslim in this world struggles. We just have a different test. We recognize that you all have tests with things like OSA (opposite sex attractions). We know that must be very difficult for you and we pray that Allah makes it easy on you all. Similarly, we have our test. Recognize it and don’t deny that we are also a part of this Ummah and we are hurting.

    I know I have been very repetitive in these comments. I’m just trying to drill a few key points in. So far I’ve seen most of my brothers and sisters don’t even do half of the points I mentioned. If you all could try to work on a few of these points, tell your friends about this, have them work on a few of these points, and go on like that, imagine how much you would help brothers and sisters like us. We would understand you truly love us, you’re here for us, and we can fight this together. No Muslim should have to be alone. We all have the same exact enemy, shaytan. We all want to defeat him so let us take our stand in unity.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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    • Abdul

      May Allah bless you sister but can i give you this advice. Please NEVER TELL ANYONE YOUR SECRET! believe me you may look back in the future and say thank god i never told anyone.

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  151. Celibate_Guy

    if someone has such tendencies its clearly from shaytan, that person should repent and give max coverage to fullfilling his duties in islam salat, zakat, haj etc… they should learn some dua’s from sunnah that are prescribed for waswasa etc

    First :As I said before SSA is NOT from shaytan and if you bothered yourself by asking some psychiartists or psychologists like those found in NARTH,YOU WILL UNDERSTAND.

    Second: is there something in islam called “repent from waswas“,how can someone repent from waswas?

    Third :you think people with ssa didn’t spend years of their life trying hard to “repent from their waswas”?

    Fourth: why do you assume that we don’t give max coverage to fullfilling our duties in islam?

    I pray all te 5 salat in masjid everyday a long time ago.Do you??? And I know many ssa people and they are very good muslims and may be better than you.

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  152. Ibn Mikdad

    The fact that someone suffers from SSA does not imply that he or she suffers from weak iman; only if someone acts upon such urges could they be qualified as people with weak iman. We all have an inclination to sin, that this the reality of the human heart; only when this inclination overcomes our iman and transforms into concrete desire to act and an actual act can we talk about a weak faith. Even if it was an issue of waswas, it would not necessarily imply that it affected someone because of their weak fatih; Sahaba, radiAllahu anhum, complained to the Prophet, saws, about some bad thoughts they were ashamed to articulate; does that mean that it happened because of their weak faith?

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  153. fshareef

    @ Celibate_Guy: in re your comment –

    to fashareef

    Thank you for your video although I didn’t watch and I won’t, But I wonder if you really want to help people with ssa with this video,why didn’t you look for some videos by psychiatrists or psychologists about psychotherapy of homosexuality???

    because, most psychological concepts are inter-related. for example, relevant to the book/video and the issue at hand, someone who is having difficulty refraining from sexual desires is psychologically similar to someone who is having difficulty refraining from eating dessert after dinner.

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  154. Conviction2Change

    Salam brother Celibate Guy,

    SSA “Same Sex Attraction” is NOT waswas.It is dDevelopmental Disorder from the psychological point of view due to emotionl wounds and trauma.

    I will agree that SSA itself is something emotional and psychological, but that need to fulfill our desires I think is due to whispers from shaytan. We wouldn’t want to do something Allah has condemned because it goes against our fitrah. We only want to do it because shaytan pulls us to those horrible things.

    Do you think that by attacking us you will feel better?

    Do you think that accusing us by having a weak Iman,will make you have a stronger Iman?

    Do you think that accusing us by something that we didn’t choose and cursing us will pave your way to paradise?

    First :As I said before SSA is NOT from shaytan and if you bothered yourself by asking some psychiartists or psychologists like those found in NARTH,YOU WILL UNDERSTAND.

    Brother, Allah knows best what some of the brothers and sisters in these comments are trying to accomplish. I think what we should do for them is what we’re asking them to do for us. Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. Let’s think that they truly have their hearts in the right place and are only trying to help us. I know it doesn’t sound like it in many of the posts, but let’s remember we all bow in the same direction five times a day.

    Make dua they understand where we’re coming from. Make dua we understand where they are coming from. If we reach out to one another we can build a bridge the Muslim ummah has failed to build for centuries.

    I know you’re very angry. These are a lot of things a lot of us have been wanting to say for so long and finally we have their attention so we can say it all. I know how you feel. I’ve been very angry for so long and I used to want to walk into the masjid and just tell everyone how wrong they were for pushing sisters and brothers like me aside.

    But anger is not the way to unity. Anger is a destructive emotion. It’s a fire that burns down all that the best try to build up. I can see that your anger stems from a lot of passion for the truth. That is a beautiful quality to have and you can do so much with it.

    This week a hope for this Ummah has been revived in me like I have never felt before. Let’s not argue. Let’s continue to discuss. Let’s reach a solution. All of us together, we can do this.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  155. Conviction2Change

    Salam fshareef,

    someone who is having difficulty refraining from sexual desires is psychologically similar to someone who is having difficulty refraining from eating dessert after dinner.

    Wait do you mean if I eat chocolate cake every evening from now on I can be cured? Eureka!

    lol sorry I had to ease some of the tension in these comments.

    To be serious, some brothers on the Straight Struggle group have actually found that if they refrain from sugar, it is easier for them to control their desires. I also know for myself when I fast, especially in Ramadan, then it is easier for me to control my desires. I gave up my bad internet habits during Ramadan and never went back to them since by the mercy of Allah. It could be that the lack of sugar actually helps somewhat “inhibit” sexual desires?

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  156. Saleems

    LOL! Gotta love your comment fshareef. But going without dessert is probably alot harder than any human attraction…

    Sister conviction: I don’t know if you read my comment but I am not quite sure what you are talking abt as I did agree with you.

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  157. Umm Reem

    4 – If nothing else, please pray for us.

    jazakAllah khair for this reminder…
    knowing that a Muslims du’a for his/her brother/sister in his/her absence is accepted, this is the least we can do for our fellow Muslims suffering through this test…

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  158. Celibate_Guy

    Dear Sister Conviction2Change

    Thank you for your replies especially that one for “moi”.Actually I was going to reply him/her with the same words you wrote.We are NOT jews and we do NOT think or behave like jews.We are muslims just like him/her and may be even better Insha’Allah.

    Thank you

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  159. tahir

    i think moi did not mean to say anyone is a jew or anything of that sort.

    he meant to say that we must look at the bani israel and make sure we are not following in their foot steps. at a tafseer course a mufti also pointed this out saying that one of the reasons the evils of bani israel are explained in such detail in quran is for muslims to learn lessons.

    and if we look carefully indeed as a nation many of us ( i dont say all and certainly not pin pointing) are thinking and doing many of things they did..

    for example, in the quran is says that the bani israel held these belief that because they were the chosen ones the fire would not touch them but for some days. increasingly muslims are also falling into this illusion and in pakistan we meet lots of ppl who say we are the ummah of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and hence we will be saved from hell.

    so its things like these which hint similarities and there is a hadith also on these lines; i cant quote exactly but its gist is that my ummah will also commit similar follies like the christains and jews.

    wasalam

    p.s moi i hope i set the record straight.

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  160. Conviction2Change

    Salam brother tahir,

    You are correct and I was meaning to joke a little when I said I am not a Jew. The reason I joked about it was because I feel that even comparing us to Banee Israeel is a joke in itself. I don’t understand what we have done or said that could cause anyone to think of such a misguided people. Moi explained it in his/her post by saying that we’re looking for “alternative” ways to help ourselves. I responded to moi in saying that Allah has never restricted us in the search for “cures”. We are allowed to use medicines if we have a disease or go to a psychiatrist if we have a mental or emotional problem. So why can we not seek further psychological guidance from organizations like NARTH, seek support in places like Straight Struggle, and seek knowledge of Islam coupled with SSA in places like the Gay Muslims blog?

    Until someone can provide some very explicit proof, I refuse to believe what we are doing in avoiding sin and rehabilitating ourselves is something even fractionally similar to what Banee Israeel used to do. If someone were to bring such proof, knowing after all the changes and sacrifices I have made so far in my life, I would leave these things if that is what Allah deems best for me.

    I will have you know though that the only way I ever found Straight Struggle and learned about SSA is due to persistent, persistent, persistent dua I made to Allah for years. One morning I woke up after much weeping the night before, begging Allah to send me help, I got on the internet and typed in a dua in the google search engine. One of the first links that came up was of a Muslim brother who used to be gay, converted to Islam, and then left his homosexual ways. At the bottom of his article, which had pulled me to tears knowing others have conquered this struggle, was the link to Straight Struggle. The rest is history.

    After an experience like that, it is very difficult for me to believe Allah wasn’t guiding me. It is very difficult for me to think what I am doing, the path that I am on, is wrong.

    May Allah guide us all.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  161. DrM

    We all get urges of this and that. Most of us have the maturity and good sense to reject them but some unfortunately wallow in them.
    There is zero evidence that homosexuality is genetic, how can pass on traits when you don’t reproduce? Junk science and the promotion of abnormal “life styles” go well together.

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  162. Asma Q.

    Assalamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah,

    First of all, jazakAllaj khair sh Yasir for posting this article. Jazakum Allah khair to eeryone else for posting your comments. Some of you have posted very beneficial information alhamdulillah.

    Marrying someone who is striahgt might not be the soltuion. However i was wondering…what if a brother and sister who are both struggling with the same problem (i.e., attracted to the same sex) get married to each other. Yes they might not be attracted to each other but maybe over time they’ll be able to build a strong relationship insha Allah. If both parties have been going throught he same struggle, it will be easier for them to relate to each other and support each other during hard times.

    Many times, in arranged marriages (something common amongst Muslims), the husband and wife don’t really love each other in the beginning of the marriage. During that time they’re more like friends to each other. They might not even be attracted to each other in the beginning, yet they go on being married, expecting it to turn into something good with the blessing of Allah ‘Azza wa Jall.

    So that brother and sister don’t necessarily have to be sexually attracted to each other, but they can defintely create that love for one another with time through that marriage.And who knows, maybe this will be the means for them to find their cure bi ‘ithnillah Mind you, there are differet types of love (.e.g, lvoe betwen a child and a parent, love between friends, etc).

    And Allah ‘Azza wa Jall knows best.

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    • Abdul

      I think its possible to have an intimate relatioship beyond just frienship. Yes its probbably not going to be ideal but you just have to work with what you have. And one can am sure channel some of the urges to the extent where life is kind of ok and bearable. And after that just rely for support on Allah and wait for his command, its not like your going to be homosexual forever, life’s pretty short, it’ll be over sooner than you think. So my advice to all affected muslims out there is just hang on coz Allah will inshallah reward you for your struggles. Sorry if i have been insensitive

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  163. Rasheed Eldin

    As-salamu ‘alaikum,

    Regarding Asma Q’s suggestion re: marriage between a man and woman both struggling with SSA. I would personally not wish to rule anything out for individuals who are seeking a solution that is halal, and I don’t think we can describe this course of action as anything other than halal. Certainly the appeal of being with someone who fully understands your struggle is obvious.

    All I wanted to underline is that marriage is not (for most people) a magic solution, but is certainly a big part of the answer, even if it must come a bit later in the process.

    Rasheed

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  164. tahir

    i think that marriage is a solution but one must be thoroughly commited and pray to Allah at all times to keep him/her firm.

    recently heard of a guy who is getting a divorce because his wife found out he was still seeing boys on the side. thats shameful and not only has this boy disgraced himself but ruined an innocent sisters life and the life of his child.

    so marriage is a solution but needs 100% commitement.

    wasalam

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  165. Ibn Mikdad

    Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu Tahir; without wanting to reject marriage as one possible solution (you said it well, “so marriage is a solution”), I’d just like to ask you one question; would you marry a woman suffering from SSA? Or, would you divorce one if you found out that she’s having problems with SSA? Wassalaam…

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  166. Naima A

    I don’t think marriage will help those that are gay, it’ll only ruin the other person. I mean can you imagine your husband being attracted to other men. Not only attracted what if he has relationship with other men while he’s married to you. I think we’re trying to find a solution that won’t work. I think if someone that was gay got married it’ll only ruin the other persons life. So I hope we can find some other solution.

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    • Abdul

      I have a better suggestion, what if a man and a woman who both have SSA get married wouldnt that just make life so much easier

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  167. Taleb Haq

    Salam,

    Marriage is not the solution for getting rid of SSA, we have discussed this issue quite a bit on the Straight Struggle group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle Marriage is a definite possibility, however, for those with SSA provided that they are not engaged in any form of SSE’s even friendships with people who have fully embraced the lifestyle. Once a person is out of that, then, I believe, it becomes feasible to approach marriage.

    On top of this, marriage DOES actually help in reducing SSAs, in my opinion and it need not affect the relationship between the husband and wife. The spouse need not tell their partner of their issues so long as they have them under reasonable control.

    And Allah knows best.

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  168. Abu Abdul

    @SisterConviction2Change,
    Are you really from this universe! I read your 9-point items above and by Allaah, I was moved to tears even in the office. May Allaah grant you and us the steadfastness on the truth and forgive us our sins.
    I remember the hadith of the holy prophet about the young man who came to seek permission to commit zinah, while everyone around the prophet were alarmed, the prophet showed deep understanding and prayed for the young man. Do you know what the young man said, he said there was nothing afterward more hated to him than committing zinah. May Allaah send His blessings on him.
    Faith itself is patience, patience on stadfastness on truth and patience on avoiding falsehood. I urge you to keep the efforts up and pray that Allaah helps you and us

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  169. Conviction2Change

    Salam

    Before I go on, let’s remember that marriage is not THE solution. It is a component of it, sometimes a very big component.

    @ DrM, I don’t think anyone here has been claiming homosexuality or SSA is genetic. We’re all on the same page about that. :)

    @ AsimQ’s comment I would say that I personally have ruled out marrying a brother with SSA because I believe my weaknesses should be my spouse’s strengths, and his weaknesses should be my strengths. That is a strictly personal opinion and others don’t feel this way. As brother Taleb Haq suggested, we have had this conversation time and time again on the Straight Struggle group for anyone who is interested in reading up on what several of us thought.

    @ tahir, you’re right that we need to fear Allah and fulfill half of our eman properly. The problem with boys like the one you mentioned is that he may have not gone into the marriage hoping to fulfill his sexual desires and become a better Muslim, and Allah knows best. It is unheard of to me that anyone gets married with the proper intentions and then he still continues down the path of sin during the marriage, at least it is unheard of to me on our Straight Struggle group.

    @ Naima A, you’re right but just like what I said to tahir, it all depends on one’s intentions. Many of us are or have gotten married, including me, with the proper intentions of pleasing Allah and saving ourselves from what is forbidden. Marriage to the opposite sex is part of the fitra so it is not something impossible, even if you do have SSA. Allah has created mates for us and written them down, there is no stopping that marriage from occurring. On our Straight Struggle group, many have gotten married and have wonderful marriages and children today. It is possible for those who are seeking a solution to their problems.

    @ Abu Abdul, thank you. We all just hope to help our fellow brothers and sisters for the sake of Allah and are looking for nothing else.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  170. uk muslima!

    salaam 2 evrybody!!

    masha’allah, the fact that the sheikh has openly discussed this topic is a gr8 start!
    we all knw homosexuality exist and not restricted 2 non muslims, but i do belive as muslims we should not be openly discussing sexuality, whether u r a hetrosexual or homosexual, this is not the way one shud conduct themselves.

    i belive that if individuals are havin problems wit any issue whether it b marital, zina, SSA in this case it is not 2 b broadcasted to anybody, but 2 sumbody who can really help and has the credentials 2 do so along wit islam!

    sheikhs like yasir qadhi, shud adress these topics n shud let the masses knw that these problems do exist rather than brushin them off as haraam n disgusting!

    And to those of u who do have these issue, i pray that allah azawajjal makes ur struggle easier as each day passes so one day inshs’allah, inshalla’allah u may overcome them, but it is not gna happen on this site!

    These group/thread creators for SSA sufferers should not b creating threads where people are openly talkin about ther sexuality whateva the case maybe.

    The bigger idea wud b 2 get hold of the imams n sheikhs espc. to those who have connections wit media, whether they mayb on tv, radio, internet, giv lectures, and hold big seminars, and make the muslim community aware of these things, so they dont belive it just dusnt exist within the muslim community and only happens 2 kuffars.

    The alims, sheikhs and imams shud let it b known as 2 how the muslim communtiy shud deal wit these things if it did happen 2 one of their own family members or sum1 in the community, educating evrybody is the key and reminding them of the teachings of rasoolallah saw and most importantly the quran, allah swt mentions it is prohibited and a sin so abstain from it, but these people having these “urges” (who dont act upon it, glorify it) are no less muslim than u r!
    it is out job 2 help one another whether the person mayb having issues with the opposite sex, or the same sex, but it does not mean the ones who are suffering from it shud broadcast it 2 the world!

    if u really want 2 help those who suffer from it, get hold of those well reputed sheikhs and alims n tell them it is ther duty 2 educate the muslims, and insha’allah we can establish some form of professional and spiritual help in confidence for the sufferers!! INSHA’ALLAH

    have patience in ur struggle my brothers and sisters because nothing happens or occurs witout the knowledge of the one who sees and hears n knows all!

    Insha’allah i have thght of this 4 sumtym and imajined if a muslims sister or brother were having these issues who wud they turn 2??
    Insha’allah i am goin 2 try my very best 2 get hold of many sheikhs and let them knw that this issue must be adressd rather than let our brothers and sisters suffer in silence or maybe evn worse turn to the kuffars n find solace with them!!

    i love u all 4 the sake of allah,
    and do not talk about ur sexuality openly 2 evryone so that they may have a chance to openly degrade and upset u! find sumbody who can truly help insha’allah!

    ps; i knw the writing is terrible but my only xcuse wud b 2 much tym infront of the lappy and shorthand is the easy way out !! :s

    salaam 2 one n all!

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  171. MW_M

    Assalamu ‘Alaikum,

    I’ve been following this thread since the original post and I’d just like to thank the sheikh for writing about this topic and the brothers and sisters who’ve been posting. My view of people suffering from this has changed 180 degrees. Subhanullah, I never realized what our brothers and sisters who suffer from this go through. Insha’Allah, I’ll keep all of you in my du’a.

    Jazakullah Khair

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  172. Conviction2Change

    Salam MW_M I’m glad you understand better now. That was the whole point of this discussion!

    Salam uk muslima. You had some very enticing suggestions and I hope you keep helping in whatever ways you can. A lot of what you mentioned like reaching out to shaykhs and those with media outlets, we have already been working on and for a while. I personally have not done too much but I know some brothers who have been working on this. May Allah grant them all success! I still don’t understand why we can’t talk about it in a safe, open place like Muslim Matters or Straight Struggle? If either of these things were wrong, I think a Muslim Matters author or a shaykh would have told us and we would stop. It’s not a sin to talk about problems and to help one another out. It’s wrong to admit that we’ve committed sins in public, but I only admitted mine because no one knows who I am. I don’t know if that rule still applies when we’re anonymous.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  173. muslimsister

    Salaam all,
    I should write the experience of my dear friend N who told me in 1996 that he was homosexual. I was taken aback and as I saw the tears pouring down his face and the pain in his eyes I realised that I couldn’t start preaching to him about Islam. He could read half the Quran by-heart. He used to be the prize child in the mosque reknowned for his beautuful voice when reciting the Quran or singing the 99 names of Allah. As I sat there looking at my friend – practically a brother to me, he wept telling me that he had been fighting the urges for years. He had even prayed to Allah over and over again to ask for guidance and strength and to make him normal. He hung his head in shame as he related to me how he had thought of commiting suicide. He didnt want to shame his family he cried.
    We sat outside in the dark, while he sobbed about what he saw as his ugliness, something filthy and despicable. I realised then that things were not as black and white, and as clear cut as what I had been taught in the mosque, or by my devout Muslim parents. As N sat beside me I dodn’t see any “ugliness”, I didn’t feel hatred or despise his homosexual desires. For me he was still my dear friend and brother N. At that moment my challenge was to put aside all my preconceived ideas. N was not a sex-raving-homo as they were so often depicted – men without morals and pedophiles. N was like any other normal Muslim, except he was gay.
    We did try the various cures of introducing him to beautiful Muslim girls to marry, but we (me and his family) realised that there was nothing we could do. His father cursed the day he was born, and threw him out the house. His mother wept on the prayer mat asking Allah to save her son. I remember those days which became years – and i saw how it eroded away at my friends soul. Tearing him apart to not be close to his family.
    I wonder where is our humanity? Who are we to judge without knowing a person close to us who fights these homosexual urges. If Allah is all mercifull, all knowing, benevolent and creator of all things, who are we to judge. I wonder if N would have been with us today if we his close friends had turnde our back on him… I am sure that we would not have had him with us today. If he had got married to a woman of his parents choice he would not only have ruined his ownn life but all the innocent women whose dreams would have been shattered.
    Homosexuality existed before the filth on TV – It has existed for thousands of years – so we cannot blame it on media. I am indirectly exposed to the same filth, but I do not allow it to affect me, and I know that N and othet Muslim male people who I later found out were gay are also critical. So lets not demonise them.

    UKmuslima discussing sexuality openly is not vulgar. Shall we hide away from something so basic and turn it into something dirty to be hidden away? It is exactly this way of thinking which prevents our Muslim women from getting the kind of help they need – so many of our women do not go to the doctor for cervical cancer tests etc until its too late. Our body is a gift from Allah, intellect and science too – so use it and not shroud ourselves in ignorance.

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  174. muslimsister

    Have you seen this documentary on transsexual operations legal by law in Iran?

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  175. Taleb Haq

    Salam sister MS,

    I am sorry for your loss and I pray that having discussions such as this one will help brothers and sisters to better deal with these urges and to not feel isolated in their pain.

    Salam.

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  176. lilli

    Homosexuality is indeed a really controversial topic, but I strongly believe that the biological theory outweighs the other theories that attempt to explain homosexuality. The author’s argument that the bombardment of erotic images in this era heightens our sexual urges and has an impact on our sexual orientations has a major flaw. Homosexuality is not some sort of phenomenon that is exclusive to the 20th and 21st century, but it is a condition (can’t find another way of describing it) that has existed probably since the beginning of mankind. The ancient Greeks will vouch for that. Gay men and women that live in Islamic countries are excellent examples. Think about it, if something is learned than it can also be unlearned. These men and women who are self-proclaimed gays and who are raised in environments where homosexuality is literally non-existent, let alone encouraged – continue feeling attracted to the same sex. If these people were really able to stop and snap out of being gay, do you really they wouldn’t try? Especially if they live in a nation where the consequence for being gay is death? Feeling attracted to the same sex is not a matter of taste or preference, but is something that exists beyond the individual’s control, and we as muslims who live by the concept of Ummah, must be supportive of our fellow brothers and sisters that are affected and struggling everyday with this everyday. I heard (and i might be wrong) that the Qu’ran acknowledges homosexuality and does not condemn the feelings that arise from it, but the actions that one would take out as a result of their erotic feelings. For anyone who’s reading this and is 100% sure that they are gay, than i strongly recommend that YOU DO NOT get married to “cure” yourself. You will not only be deceiving yourself, but your spouse and potential children as well. Find someone who’s educated and open-minded in your community to help you. Nobody deserves to be miserable.

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  177. lilli

    I agree with muslimsister regarding ukmuslima’s comment on not openly discussing sexuality. The Qu’ran disscusses it openly, mind you. Hence, why shoudn’t we?

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  178. Salema

    lilie,
    three things:
    1-Allah made it clear that the people of Lot were the first people to commit this crime against humanity.
    2-Homosexuality has physiological causes, among other thing.
    3-Allah created a cure for everything.

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  179. lilli

    Salema,

    Can you please elaborate on the physiological causes of homosexuality, if you have the time. And as for your third statement, cures exist to get rid of diseases. You can’t classify homosexuality as a disease, whether you think the causes of it are biological or learned because a person doesn’t physically deteriorate from being gay. I understand that you are using the Qu’ran as the basis of your knowledge and I totally respect that, but I also think that it’s crucial to look at homosexuality from other perspectives as well – societal, psychological, biological…

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  180. Salema

    Ha ha physiological. I actually meant phycological but for some reason it has a red line under it even though its spelled right.

    Allah says:

    And [mention] Lot, when he said to his people, “Indeed, you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds.”

    Really I don’t know how I can respond to you if you don’t believe homosexuality is a disease. It is a disease of the worst kinds of diseases of the heart, and it can be physically destructive to the body as well in such forms as Aids and other sexual diseases.

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  181. muslimsister

    The story of the people of Lot was about men raping men was it not? Please correct me if Im wrong,
    I have a son who is very dear to me. If he became homosexual I would be suprised maybe hurt because I would think about the stigmitsation etc – but I would still love him as my son. Its sad when parents ostracise their children – love should not be conditional.

    We have to be able to see the difference—-

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  182. Salema

    Before a Muslim posts here, they should educate themselves on the way Islam views homosexuality. In the Book of Allah, the only thing dealing with homosexuality is the story of Lot. This story is not about men raping men– or rather not only about that– it is about the crime of sodomy. Muslimsister, if your son has received the proper tarbiya-upbringing- from you, and has learned to love Allah and to fear Him, and has been instilled with the love of Quran and the love of good and hatred of evil, then inshallah he will never be homosexual. And even if he does have homosexual urges, inshallah he will be successful in fighting and overcoming them. I agree that a person loves his children, but they do not love their actions if they are wrong in Allah’s eyes. If someone’s child is a rampant homosexual, after having received guidance and instruction and love from their parents, then in some cases it is best to stop associating with them, while never ceasing to continue to make du’aa for Allah to guide them.
    In the end, hidayah-guidance- is in Allah’s hands, and no matter what someone does their children may be meant for the hellfire. The best example of this is the children of the prophets, such of Nuh.

    Hope that helps.

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  183. Taleb Haq

    Salam MuslimSister

    Loving your children should be at a much higher level than just unconditional love. If, God forbid, your son were to experience same-sex attractions, by no means does that mean that you should expel him from your life and hate him. Instead, you should love him to the point that you would want to protect him from sin (which, I believe, is the highest form of love) since this life will perish and we will all be brought to account based on the actions that we undertook in this life.

    The story of the Prophet Lut and his people was about many sins, probably including rape but also definitely including male-on-male sex (even consensual). Aside from the verses that use the word “ityan” to describe the sexual relationship between the men of the village [this is the same term used when describing the sexual relationship between a husband and wife in the Qur’an), consider the following:
    The Prophet Lut offers his daughters [in tafseer this is explained as marrying the women of the village] he offers them to his people instead of what they wanted of the angels (his guests). So, can you truly imagine that the Prophet Lut wal’iyathu billah, is offering that his people RAPE the women of the village rather than the angels?

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  184. AnonSis

    Sheikh Yasir, jazakAllah khair for addressing this subject and i pray our community can be more open to helping our brothers and sisters who are truly looking to please Allah and do everything they can to get rid of such desires.
    In your article you advice the brother to get married, so what about the woman he gets married to? What if he can not get rid of those desires than what about the poor wife?

    The only time i would advice marriage is if the brother
    1st WANTS TO GET MARRIED TO A WOMAN, if he has desires for women and wants to change and get rid or curb any desires for the same sex,
    2nd if he is 100% about changing and willing to do ANYTHING including counselling, seeing a psychologist, gets rid of TV even if does not watch, if he looks at porn then getting rid of the source – computer, the internet, even if it means throwing it in the bin, regardless if you need to use it for work, college or uni – use public library or cafe’s
    3rd keeps himself BUSY never let boredom set in, throw himself into dawah, gaining knowledge, class after class, if he has nothing else to do even for an hour spend it in the masjid and even at night staying up for qiyam so never letting the mind to feel at lost or wonder.
    4th he should only befriend righteous brothers who can encourage him in gaining closer to Allah, so get rid of any brothers whose goal is not living by the quran and sunnah, those that talk trash, spend there time in pursuing nonsense, only keep good brothers phone numbers and delete all others (this may seem extreme but the point goes back to keeping your self busy never losing your goal)

    I give the above advice as a woman who just found out her husband has such desires, it actually upset me to read the sheikh’s advice such brothers should get married i ask again what about the poor wife?
    My life has turned upside down and only Allah knows how much, I have actually been living a lie, all those hopes and dreams i had for my life and marriage – all gone.

    May Allah guide as all to the straight path and make it easy for our brothers and sisters who are going through such tests and cure them from such desires

    I have an urgent question i need an answer to, is there any way sheikh Yasir can email me jazakAllah khair

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  185. uk muslima!

    muslimsister said:

    Fear. Dirty mind?
    -May 7th, 2009 at 3:15 am

    i feel personally attacked!!

    a fear of what exactly?

    women n men alike did not openly express there sexual orientation 2 evrybody and anybody, if they had a problem they would seek out sumone who is knowledgeable in the deen n who specializes in sexual/personal matters!
    jus like if you had an issue would u go and disclose it to all the sisters in the cirlces u attended? no i dint think so!
    i do belive when many of the sahabas had issues they wouldnt have a massive debate about it and openly express it 2 peopl who could not help them.
    the BEST thing 2 do would b to go 2 sumone who has knowledge and sumone who is actually going 2 b able 2 help (professionally speaking)
    rather than sitting on here and going in2 constant debate n symposiums with others, debating whether homosexuality are waswasa from shayateen or jus abnormailities within the brain. allah hu alam
    the point is all this debate is dragging on n peopl if THEY REALLY want 2 help go to the imams in ur masjid, alims n sheikhs who can make this closed issue an open one!
    The fact that i stated wen peopl expose themselves about ther sexual orientation ther is room for attack and a chance they maybe dehumanised and degraded. (or did u just happen 2 not read that part?)
    most of the learning comes from the ulama n the ones who have ijazaa n i dont belive any of us here do so we are not in a position 2 say what is best in this case, it is a difficult subject and should b handled wit the utmost care and remembering these are our brothers and sisters in the deen! and random bros and sistas suggesting all kinda things and upsettin eachothers feelings is what it can lead 2! (sister no nonsense!)

    a dirty mind??
    im a mother of 1 dnt have 2 much tym 2 wonder n indulge myself into them! thanx! (SARCASM BTW ;))
    LOL!!

    ur sis in the deen
    UK MUSLIMA. masalaama

    PS; i havnt had a single reply from any imam or sheikhs in regards to this matter, n i will let u all knw if i do! make dua!

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  186. Faki49

    Salam Alaikum.

    I suggest to all muslims involved in mind health that homosexuality CAN be cured. WE need Muslim psychiatrists to investigate this as an illness in its entirety, reasearch how childhood development, genes, environmental influences, personality and all other influences contribute towards this urges. The entire psychodynamics of this problem.
    I think that some people might be having some biological pre-disposition as a trial set for them from Allah s.w.t. In the same way some people have the strong RAGE feelings within them, some people have immense chronic emptiness in their souls, some have excessive mood swings even to the point of suicidality, and some have excessive desires towards animals. All are different forms of some very difficult trials which modern science is slowly finding, at least, partial biological causes. In these people more stronger mental defenses. stronger Jihad, patience are to be instituted and more awareness of the problem and its solutions.
    Its important to know that the primary desire of the human male is never ever completely absent, it is completely displaced by this same-gender desire in the Gay and the Gay is in total denial about the capacity of the self to pleasure at the opposite sex. This follows I think from learned helplessness which is several attempts to resist the probable biological urges and impulses and failure to do so or being overwhelmed by them. Note for Gays who engage in masterbation, they might be strongly conditioning the homosexual behaviour, anything that rewards a cognitive pattern/behaviour would end up strengthening that pattern.

    Sexual desire is a biopsychosocial desire and sheikh correctly pointed out, that many social issues play a role like the desentization of the sexual feelings which can then be easily turned towards one or the other sex during childhood and adolescent development. I would like to add that overstrict bringing up might also strongly be a cause, where sexuality might be having a spectrum with other human emotions and the psychology becomes confused when mixed emotions are expressed towards boys and are rewarded with pleasure, not neccessarily sexual pleasure but still as I said sexual attraction is a biopsychosocial phenomenon. Other emotions are strongly related to the sexual emotion. These are simple theories which I guess might be contributing. However a strong, evidence-based clinical approach is required, muslim psychiatrists getting together with Gay Muslims and investigating the problem like how all other challenging mental conditions are approached today. Its impossible to convince a girl suffering from anorexia nervosa that she is thin – nearly impossible. She evaluates herself as totall fat no matter what you tell her. In the same way the Gay might be evaluating himself as a Gay completely when he aint Gay. Self-evaluation is also very very important.

    Allah has given strength to the pscyh more than the biology. If the Muslim Gay can know that psychological training in the correct path can always eliminate this impulses just like it can eliminate zoophilic impulses, then he will embark on the path to eradicate this feelings. We dont want muslim youth denying that they have these tendencies within them and we dont want uncompassionate, stupid, heartless Mullas cursing ALL homosexuals everytime without giving any solution or path but at the same time and worse of all is Gay Muslims trying to follow these impulses to actions or trying to Justify homosexuality. They are the ones who will lose the most in the Akhira and duniya also. Homosexuals even if liberal western countries have higher rates of depression, substance use, Aids, suicidal behaviour e.t.c. So even in free countries homosexuality is a problem which causes alot of problems in the soul in other ways.

    The problem with Muslims is that they do not want to integrate a modern clinical approach to homosexuality. Homosexuality was a paraphilia documented in the DSM in the previous century. ITs as real as anything. On the same grounds and more extreme are issues like zoophilia, pedophilia and other such psychiatric paraphilias. Not only that they removed homosexuality as a paraphilia completely some few decades ago and stopped all research, prevention measures, interventions and other such clinical approaches. Additionally, the problem with the western psychiatric world is that although they have documented , described many mental illnesses they failure to integrate Islam and Quranic analysis in the study of the mind, they have failed to find effective solutions for most of the psychiatric challenges and thus many people persistenly are depressed, have chronic anxiety, have chronic pparaphilic tendencies e.g. zoophilia, voyeurism e.t.c.

    To all Gays I would like to suggest that this learned helplessness is an objective of Satan, Jihad should continue all your life even if it means never marrying. Marrying is a sunnah and if you feel it would make your life more miserable dont do it. You would rather not follow a Sunnah then fall into a Major Sin like homosexuality. Instead spend your life, learning about your condition from a scientific and Islamic perspective and how you can either completely displace these emotions and continue with a productive life occupationally and socially without interference. I believe family and sexual therapy of couples with an experienced sex therapist might benefit in those individuals who do decide to get married. In the sex-therapy clinics they do deal with usually absent or apathetic sexual desires. I am sure there must be clinics where homosexuals would want heterosexual desires and programs for the same. Unfortunately the western world has ceased all this programs and clinical research and has left it into the hands of religious scholars who dont have the biopsychosocial approach to homosexuality.
    I am just a medical student who had a very short psychiatric term recently. I have not done much research into homosexuality but I know that it is and should be classified as a psychiatric challenge/illness just like other paraphilias. All what I have written is just a brief ideas or things which came to my mind without much literature evidence. But what I know for sure is that unless a clinical approach integrated with Islamic solutions is not taken we would never solve this problem by just condemning it and cursing the homosexuals.

    NB: I am not Gay but I empathize with Gays as I think that their might be some partial biologic tendencies. Then that the pscyhology is abnormally developed around these tendencies to make them even stronger. Shaitan exarcebates these tendencies, channels thoughts along these lines and confuses the individual. The Muslim is responisible eventually for the action. The action is never justified. SAme with pedophilics, zoophelics, transexuals e.t.c. FAith is the biggest weapon, the Quran and the Islamic modes of self-discipline e.g. prayers, fasting e.t.c.

    This article might be having flaws. Allah forgive me for the wrongs in the article. Ameen
    JazakAllah khair

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  187. Faki49

    I just posted a long comment. IT dissapeared.

    -Until we fetched it –Editor

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  188. Muslimsister

    How many people here know homosexuals among family/friends? I get the impression that many people are suggesting secret formulas without realising what it is like for a homosexual. My dearest friend N (mentioned above) suffered terribly. His friend from Pak/Kashmir had a mental breakdown and tried to committ suicide. He is today an empty shell. Attending the mosque and a wreck.

    People who believe that homosexuality can be cured (as if its a disease) through reading the Quran and through the fear of God seriously do not understand what life is like for a “true” homosexual. Not only are adults who are homosexual being totally underminded through the comments here, but they are also treated as lepers by society. In some cases yes a few men will change after being reminded about the wrath of Allah, but in most cases they keep it hidden from their family, even get married to keep the family happy, and have sexual contact with men at the same time. I think this makes me more sick. The deceit. The lies.
    Not facing the reality of the situation and making people into something they are not, just so as not to cause an imbalance in the structure of society must be a far worse crime. It is said that Allah does not make mistakes. He makes things as they are. Can it be that these men who have no lust for women are also Allahs creation?
    The suicide rate among homosexual men in Iran is 33%. Is suicide better or to be supported by your family?

    As a British-Pakistani I have seen the darker side of our mosques between 1972-1983 (Im 40 now). I have been to various mosques and I must say it saddens me to remember how Pakistani-Muslims were taught about Islam – there was no room for free thinking or to challenge despite the fact that Quran challenges us to question, to even ask more (there were many reasons behind the Golden period of Islam, but most importantly it was connected to ijtihad – freedom of thought, to think independently). So where is our freedom of thought now? If we are a tolerant, loving religion, where is our tolerance for those who suffer because they do not accept their bodies?

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  189. UmmeAmmaarah

    @ Faki49

    SubhanAllah….. what you’ve written about is something I’ve always thought about…. about the need for ‘islamic’ analysis of psychiatric disorders, for the need for muslim psychiatrists and psychologists. If i had anyway of knowing how to go about this, if there were actually some kind of texts written about this matter by Islamic scholars of the present and past, I’ve always thought that maybe I would make it my specialization for residency. Do you know of any muslim psychologists who look at these disorders and all the various psych disorders from the perspective of both rational science and Islamic principles? I have wondered ever since I joined the field of how much to actually believe present classifications of disorders as actual inherent biological dysfunctions v/s learned bahavior. If you have any further knowledge of such issues, and how to address them, it would be very enlightening.

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  190. Taleb Haq

    To Muslimsister:

    As mentioned above there is a whole group dedicated to Muslims with same-sex attractions located at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle . As for your call towards ijtihad, Ijtihad is bein performed in our day and age, perhaps not as much as it should be. But ijtihad is not to be performed by people without having the proper knowledge to practice it. You seem to be calling (and I’m sorry if I’m wrong) but you seem to be calling for all of us to start up our own ijtihad in interpreting our faith. This is like asking all of us to start practicing medicine without having the proper training. There is no question that this issue needs to be discussed, but it needs to be discussed within its proper Islamic context that unequivocally states that homosexual actions are forbidden in Islam.

    Allah knows best.

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  191. Conviction2Change

    Salam

    Dear AnonSis, I can not imagine what you are going through right now and I pray for all the best for you. Thank you for sharing your story here because many of us need to hear it and be reminded that our struggles effect more people than just ourselves. I have often wondered what will happen if my husband finds out about my same sex attractions but I am doing many of the things you said in your post that we should do (I wanted to get married to a man and had desires for him, I wanted to change, I got rid of everything from my old life, I sought help and still do, I’m a very busy woman, and keep close to only those who are good for me). You are right and we have discussed this over and over in these comments that marriage is not the magical cure to SSA, but it is certainly a part of it. I do not know what you and your husband are planning on doing right now but if does want to seek some kind of help and see if anything can be done, then please let him know about our support group and blog (listed at the end of my post). If you would like you can also email me (conviction2change@gmail.com) the question you had for Shaykh Yasir and I will try to forward it to him and see if he can reply. If there is anything else that I can do for you besides prayers please let me know. May Allah make this test easy for you and give you all the best in the end. Ameen.

    Dear Faki49, that was an excellent post. I hope we can all learn a thing or two from it. I’m currently inactively working with a Muslim therapist to help educate the Muslim community about homosexuality. It’s a slow but working progress. Also, you mentioned that unfortunately we do not have therapists who work with homosexuals trying to have heterosexual desires – that’s not quite true.- we do have such therapists but they are very few in number. One therapist is Janelle Hallman in Colorado, USA who works with Christian females who have unwanted SSA. I’m currently reading a book by Janelle Hallman to combat my own SSA. One more thing, if you don’t mind, do you mind expanding more upon biological causes of homosexuality? I understand there can be hormone imbalances sometimes, but how likely is that? What other causes are possible? (I am not asking this hoping to find an excuse for why I feel this way. I am asking to better understand the full scope of SSA. I understand it from the Islamic, psychological, and social perspectives but not so much the biological perspective.)

    Dear Muslimsister, I do not know if I have not read the comments here carefully enough, but I do not feel anyone is saying to not support homosexuals. My family and friends, who I have come out to, do support me but they also remind me of the wrath of Allah and that I need to be constantly fighting these feelings. They understand what I am going through and marriage was completely my choice and I was not forced into it by any means. I also have another family member and some long distance friends who are suffering from SSA so I cannot say that their lives are as hopeful as mine is but I do believe if we help one another as much as possible and have the support from caring Muslims like you, then we can become strong enough Muslims to not only battle our SSA but also help other Muslims battle theirs. This is a new age, a brighter one. I believe the power of dua and pure intentions far outweigh the negativities of other Muslims towards this subject so please do not be disheartened by them, sister. May Allah reward you for your strong will. Ameen.

    Salam,
    Your sister with a conviction to change

    conviction2change@gmail.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StraightStruggle
    http://www.gaymuslims.wordpress.com

    http://www.samesexattraction.org
    http://www.narth.com

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  192. Advice to the Aspiring Muslim with Homosexual Urges | allah.eu

    [...] In today’s world, homosexuality is something very common and accepted.  Considering the environment we live in, it is quite possible that some aspiring Muslims may also have homosexual urges even though they may not want to.  However, in Islam, acting upon these urges is strictly prohibited.  For a parallel example, as a man, I may want to have relations with numerous different women, but as we know, even though I may have that urge or desire the act does not become permissible (as we are only permitted to have relations with those that are halal to us (i.e our spouse)).  Similiar, a person who has homosexual desires must also refrain from their urges and impulses and insh’Allah they will be rewarded for their patience and virtue.  For a more complete look into this subject, please check out Shaykh Yasir Qadhi’s post on MuslimMatters. [...]

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