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iTunes ChannelTerrorists Attack Guest Sri Lankan Cricketers in Pakistan
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I am angry right now. Really angry.
Today, terrorists further proved to the world why they need to be eliminated and why this threat from the scums of the earth needs to be forever removed.
I resent these animals. I resent all terrorist organizations whose cowardly modus operandi is to attack civilians and non-combatants, because they are not brave enough to stand up and take a bite out of REAL men. I was angry when the Israeli army used (and continues to use) the same tactics, and I find it no different when “our own” terrorists do exactly the same. It is time to call a spade, a SPADE. So, I resent and condemn whoever sent these terrorists to carry out this dastardly attack, whichever god-forsaken outfit it may be.
I ALSO resent those who continue to defend these thugs, those who continue to exalt jihad without giving it full justice (i.e. relating all the nuances and the forbidden forms of it), and those who do not take a second look at the animals that the perverted form of this jihad is creating. While these “super-jihadis” jump to attack injustice by the West (rightfully), they free themselves from even mentioning the crimes against humanity that these terrorists continue to commit! This includes lay keyboard jihadists who spend day and night exalting terrorism, because in their perverted brains, killing innocent civilians is somehow justifiable.
Yes, bad things are happening all over the world, but by attacking symbols of normalcy, guests from a visiting country (Sri Lanka) who were doing the tour as a make-up for the Indian team’s cancellation (in retrospect a wise decision though what a shame for for India to exploit this tragedy), these terrorists want to “bring it on”. Well, then give it to them!
I don’t want the home of my parents, the country of my birth, to be over-run by terrorists. I don’t want extremists to shut down and destroy girls’ schools, for instance. I don’t want them to overrun law and order, and government institutions to implement what they THINK is sharia; regardless of any good intentions. Because destroying girls’ schools is not shariah. This is not Afghanistan where there is a vacuum of state actors. This is Pakistan (even despite our horrible leaders).
I am angry, and I think after this incident, because of the symbolism of cricket in Pakistan (I was an avid player so I know), many, many average Pakistanis will be angry. And I hope they will funnel this energy and anger to look into themselves first, join all forces of good against terrorism, and also work towards implementing leadership that isn’t tainted.
We are getting what we are getting in Pakistan, because we deserve it, but at least spare the guests! When we allow crooks to lead the “pure” nation (fountainhead of corruption being Zardari), then the terrorists will exploit. When our society becomes devoid of justice, then Allah will send the punishment in all types and forms, and these terrorists are indeed a form of punishment. We are also getting the mess that Musharraf left (such as Zardari- the poison that keeps giving), and how he left the country in total disarray. Yes, some of the blame goes to the Western nations who supported that dictator and who now support Zardari, because of short-term interests (that will also backfire). But let’s focus on OUR OWN. The more we keep pointing fingers elsewhere, the more we will escape the reality of the evil within. And who will get hurt ultimately: the average Mohammed on the Pakistani street.
Some will raise the possibility of an inside-job. Since the terrorists escaped, only Allah knows who they were. But we KNOW that there are Muslims who are indeed capable of such, and who glorify such; so while anything is possible, we should not let conspiracy theories divert our attention. The issues of extremism and terrorism will not go away if we continue to live in la-la land that someone else is doing this. Who else would do this in Pakistan, when only a few hundred miles away, terrorists are indeed active.
My sympathies and prayers for all the Sri Lankan players (understandably still in shock). Thank you, Sri Lankan team, for coming to Pakistan, despite the threats. You know about terrorism better than anyone else (with the Tamil Tigers). It is the scourge that has to be defeated, wherever it rears its ugly head.
And my condolences and prayers for the police heroes who died protecting their guests. May Allah forgive their sins and give them solace in their graves and the hereafter.
And I also pray that the shameless cowardly terrorist thugs, whoever they are, should be brought to justice, and every bit of justice extracted against them.
And finally some food for thought, with all the imperfections of the USA, who wants to go to Pakistan now (courtesy Hassan)? This is the state of our Ummah, let’s recognize it.
See Also:
- Gunmen remain at large with video @ Guardian
- Video: Raid targets cricket players
- Lahore assault casts long shadow
- Cricket: A timeline of terror @ Dawn
- Reactions: Attack on Sri Lanka cricket team
© MuslimMatters.org by Amad on March 3rd, 2009. All rights reserved. Please see legal & other disclaimers here.
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Sad day indeed. A very cowardly and shameful act that defies justification.
Once again these animals have proven themselves unworthy of being called human beings, let alone Muslims. Not satisfied with their fascist attacks on the art, culture and music of Pakistan, they have turned their sights on the last bastion of sanity for Pakistan’s youth – sport. Again they have violated all Islamic precedent for how to treat noncombatants and guests under the protection of Muslims to reach their perverted goals. You raised some great points on the need for speaking out, silence is not an option anymore in Pakistan. Despite the fact one is risking their life speaking out against these pseudo-Jihadis, Pakistani ulema and the public can no longer remain silent. There needs to be public condemnation of this atrocity. I suspect, however, that the Government in its incompetency and embarrassment will attempt to shift blame to India, when we all know the real problem is misguided pseudo-Jihadis in Pakistan and their supporters. Conspriacy theorists like Zaid Hamid should also be condemned. They are a product of colonized minds, trading one colonialism (British) for another (Arab extremists posing as Islamists).
inna lillahi wa inna alaihi rajioon…
May Allah bring the criminals behind this abhorrent act to justice.
May Allah (swt) protect the innocent.
Has any Muslim group claimed responsibility?
Amad how do you even know that MUSLIMS are behind it?
Do you have some information we don’t?
Funny how you jump to conclusions….
Assalamu ‘alaykum Amad
What does Jihad and the the struggle for the Shari’ah have anything to do with this attack? Unless you have clear evidence that a Jihad group has claimed responsibility, please don’t try to cloud the mind of the readers by trying to make a link between this and Jihad when there is none!
I haven’t heard any claims of responsibility nor have I heard any support or praise of this incident. So stop jumping to assumptions.
It is a matter of time when that will happen… I hope that Muslims aren’t involved, but time and again that hope is dashed.
So, if Muslims claim responsibility, will we believe that? Will we blame conspiracies at that time? Aren’t there still who don’t even believe 9/11 had Muslims involved or Mumbai? I don’t think that will change the issue. The issue is that we have a problem, and if it is not this, it is going to be some other form of terrorism. We see what is happening not far from this epicenter, and it is no surprise that it spilled over.
Leaving this alone, those who are jumping against assumptions, are you willing to condemn the Bali bombers? The Mumbai attackers? The school-destroyers of Swat? I want to hear your answers on these specifically. Lets not skirt the issue. I want to hear specific responses from all those who are attacking the post. I don’t disagree that there are questions to be answered yet, but while you state that justified disagreement, please also respond to my queries. If you do, then great, our disagreement then is much more limited.
As I stated, this situation angers me to the core, and common sense dictates the assumptions. I may be wrong, I hope I am wrong. But I am betting on myself to be right, unfortunately.
I agree with this statement.
Again, may Allah bring the criminals behind this despicable act to justice. And may Allah shower mercy on any Muslims that died as a result. Ameen.
Those who say there is no link between jihad and this attack are right. Jihad can never be about killing innocent civilians. However, a perversion and misunderstanding of it can be. Have we missed the glorification and praise of the Bali bombers, with videos and photos in their devotion? Have we missed those who praise the 9/11 hijacking? We have sick people in our midst, a small minority, but nevertheless a dangerous minority… that is the reality of it. LET’S GET IT… otherwise we will never move to fix it. Why does it surprise us that some of those same elements may be involved in this? Is it beyond the pale of what terrorist elements have done before?
This is a real sad day not just for pakistan and the ummah . The reality is that a lot needs to be changed in Pakistan. What has happened in this country for the last 20 years or so is really upsetting. The average citizen cannot go through Karachi without feeling completely safe. Whether it is a rode side bomb, a burgler, or what is now a new trend of taking women by gun point, I wonder, What is the sollution? And all those that do not think that there is a problem with terrorist attacking and creating havoc in the northern tribal areas need to wake up and come to reality. The west has been a huge problem with what is wrong with the muslim world, but a lot of it has been our fault. Allah (swt) has promised islam and the muslims victory, but we need to first change ourself . Now we dont know if it is a muslim or not , but just the assumption is somthing that has become a norm and that is somthing that is really sad.
Bear in mind that “clear evidence” to khawarijj supporters means something beyond a claim of DIRECT responsibility since Bin Laden and the other khawarijj have already claimed responsiblity for 9/11, the London and Madrid attacks, through videos and “suicide” wills by, yet many khawarijj supporters still blame “Mossad/Cia” which are apparently God-like in their ability to fool the entire world and execute flawless attacks. Also, the kool-aid drinking clowns at Islamic Awakening have refereneced this post in their rantings, so be prepared for a disproportionate response in terms of “defense” of the aforementioned actions or outright denial that Pseudo-Jihadis were behind them….as if ANY other group in the would stoop so low as to attack innocent sportsmen from a neighboring friendly country.
AnonyMuslim, I am not surprised about the source, when I start seeing the attackers streaming through. The point of claim and responsibility is a side-point of distraction as you mentioned. Interestingly some of the sites that attack MM the most, are complicity silent when other sites add posts glorifying clear terrorism.
Umm, I’m not sure if this is being directed at me, but I will answer anyways, and I am sure everyone else who has commented here would give the same answers. To answer the question: Obviously, Islam condemns all acts of violence targeted at civilians. Obviously that includes the terrorism that occurred in Bali, Mumbai, and elsewhere.
Furthermore, obviously, destroying girls’ schools has nothing to do with the shari’ah, but I personally am more than a bit skeptical that the situation in Swat is simply a matter of “a bunch of evil thugs who don’t want little girls to learn.” Of course, the media (both Western and Pakistani) is certainly trying to paint a certain picture of the situation over there. It is up to us if we are naive enough to simply swallow everything coming from the media about that region (specifically in these matters). I think it is best not to conflate things…
It wasn’t directed at you Ahmad. I know where you stand
As for your statement above, I wouldn’t be too sure… most likely right, but not necessarily.
And I also think a healthy skepticism of the media is desirable, but to blame all media (Western and non-Western) for creating distortion is being somewhat conspiratorial, and that is not healthy. That is why, nearly all my links were to non-Western media. Who are you going to believe eventually? If 9 out of 10 parties say the same thing, then there is a good chance that the situation is as described.
Swat was a peaceful, beautiful valley until thugs moved in. That is the truth of the situation. It is not that overnight locals became more religious.
We don’t conflate when we can. But things are not happening in a vacuum. It isn’t that everything is hunky-dory in Pakistan and suddenly attacks happened. Things are connected, and it isn’t rocket science in my 2-cents. We just have a hard time accepting that we have a problem, and that to me is the crux of the problem.
wallahualam
I strongly agree with Abul Hassan and Ahmad.
The situation is complicated… I doubt anyone has any idea really WHO committed these terrorist attacks and WHY they did it (i.e. what exactly their agenda is). There are so many different nuances and shades of grey… these aren’t islated actions, they are obviously tied to many many other factors – some which we may know about, most of which I’m sure the majority of us are oblivious about because we don’t live in Pakistan or those areas of the Muslim world where such incidents are occurring.
Amad, I think we DO recognize that we have whackjobs and perverted mentalities in our communities… we HAVE condemned it all a million and one times… we can keep screaming about it ’till we’re blue in the face, but that’s not going to change anything. I’m sick of the condemnations and pointing fingers at everyone (including ourselves) – how about, instead of placing most/ all of the blame on a certain group, we just admit straight up that we’re ALL a part of the problem somehow or another? And then do OUR part to solve it?
Everytime something like this happens, we say and do the same things: get angry, condemn whatever group was responsible, end up flaming each other because we think that the other side(s) are the ones whose mentalities are responsible for messing up the world, and then go back and skulk in our corners when it’s over until the next incident occurs.
I’m sick of it all.
Anonymouse. I am not sick of going after these sick animals until they stop. And I am not afraid of the same cast of people who show up from the same websites to defend the thugs who are bringing down Pakistan. You say we DO recognize whackjobs. No, we don’t. It is always a conspiracy theory and kool-aid drinkers. You may recognize it, but don’t extend that to others.
Sorry haters, this is not the last chapter of condemnation on this blog. I’ll carry my responsibility of condemning until I am in blue in face dutifully. As a Muslim, I will not let my deen be sullied by the terrorists. And if you don’t think these condemnations don’t matter, then you are also wrong. They balance the Islamophobic rhetoric on the web, because when others see Muslims doing it, they can discriminate between mainstream Muslims and whack-jobs. And it also helps separate us from the keyboard jihadists. The internet is a world of ideas, the louder you are, the more you are heard.
P.S. Perhaps there was no need to express your angst about Aqsa either?? So, please spare me the opportunity to express mine.
Swat was a beautiful valley nobody disputes that. And what do you mean by thugs moving in? When you rain down rockets at there houses as if they are empty what are you expecting roses in return. NWFP and Baluchistan is being bombed day and night by drones flying from within the Pakistani territory. What do you expect people from that region to do?
Things dont happen in vaccum. The situation created in SWAT is Pakistani governments own doing. They created this mess by accepting the violation of there territorial borders by an outside force and being complicit in the murder of there own people. When your own government becomes your nemesis than these kind of things happen. Why do you think Kashmir became such a problem for India or for that matter other states where Naxalites operate?
Blame can go around in all the directions. Nobody has clean hands.
I agree Suhail that blame can go around. And that is why I included the government in my criticism. But it doesn’t forgive the actions of the other party.
Also when we talk about this kind of attacks then we need to consider many things. First of all a lot of attacks are motivated by revenge. When people see there kindered killed infront of there eyes they will forget what is right and what is wrong. They do not care what the fiqh of jihad has to say because anger clouts there mind. So who are we going to blame for that anger?
Just look at what happened at Akshardham temple when few muslims from gujarat sprayed bullets in there. Who are we gonna blame for that? Those muslims who sprayed the bullets or those politicians who planned the genocide of muslims families. That is a hard pill to swallow.
Also too many things have happened in Pakistan which makes problems much worse. First Musharraf complicity with US against Afghanistan and turning a blind eye at what is happening there. Then his raid on Red Mosque. After than bombing the tribal belt as if there are no families living there. These things have created a total unstable situation there.
Also India is not a Angel sitting at Pakistans border. If anybody thinks that India will not try to create problems in Pakistan than he is living in a dream world. India will do whatever is possible to create a problem in Pakistan. Right now it is working ceaselessly to isolate Pakistan and promote it as a Terrorist state. Did you read the reaction from Indian Foreign minister concerning this attacks?
Perhaps.
This is the root of the issue I was getting to. What you have stated here is justification. And that is precisely the problem. We cannot fix one injustice with another injustice. I understand the root-cause of hatred, and I understand that the West has a lot of blame for it, because it perpetuated injustice throughout the world. However, let me ask you a question. One of my good friend’s sister was killed when one of these terrorists sprayed her car with bullets near the US Embassy in Karachi some time ago. How would you like to explain to my friend how his sister’s murder was justified because some people were really angry for what happened to them? Don’t get me wrong, Suhail. I understand where you are coming from. But we just have to stop putting buts and ifs when we condemn.
Let’s focus our energies on one thing at a time. This time it is the terrorists, in other posts, I have attacked Musharraf and the Pakistani government. Both are evil. Both need to be condemned. And neither can be a justification for the murder of someone who is COMPLETELY removed from the situation. I think if God forbid, one of our relatives dies as collateral of a terrorist attack, we will have little sympathy and little patience for the reasons behind the terrorists’ anger.
Btw, I did mention the Indian response as being shameless in my post, I think you glossed over that section
. Though I would be hard-pressed to believe that they would do this. It’s just too simplistic, and I just don’t see why they would need to bury their reputation for this purpose. Remember India is like 20 years ahead of Pakistan and we are less important as an enemy to India, as India is to Pakistan.
This is adapted from a comment I left elsewhere:
In my opinion, it is time to stop blaming other people for one’s own faults. Pakistan had lot of fractures and problems even before this event. Yet, once again people are blaming India, West (!) for a brazen terrorist attack.
Pakistan has a corrupt, morally deficient, ruthless leader and an equally corrupt and power hungry army. On other side they have people who will implement their version of Shariah by hook or by crook.
The fact is, Pakistanis have attacked their second religion – cricket. They don’t care if it harms their support – they seem to have plenty of it in the northern areas of Pakistan. Some people were commenting on the Americans during their election and how their system is corrupt and it was useless to vote. Now perhaps is a good time to talk about reform that is needed in Pakistan.
We can start by people’s idea of what Islam is and what should be forced on people and what freedom people are entitled to in Pakistan. When just repealing the unfair Hudood law is impossible due to protests, Pakistan has bigger problems than just no cricket for the next 10 years.
AA- Amad,
Whoah, slow down there cowboy! You’ve got quite a whirlwind of a post here. So many topics all bundled into one amazingly angry rant.
Why are you so quick to jump on the anti-terrorism bandwagon, especially when that bandwagon is being spearheaded by those with clear ill-will against Muslims? Is it me or are you just trying a wee bit too hard to prove your hatred for ‘terrorism’ (as they define it)?
If you simply step back, you’d realize that the Pakistani Taliban would be shooting itself in the foot by attacking Pakistani cricket. They are in dire need of public support, so why would they commit such a stupid act?
And its quite condescending to allude to any other possible explanations as crazy conspiracies, as if to imply that anything other than blaming terrorism is a tinfoil-hat conspiracy. Have we become so brainwashed by the GWOT mantra that any talk outside this limited scope of thought is branded as heresy and written off as conspiracy? Such simplistic analyses of geo-political events will forever prevent us from truly grasping the complexity of our problems.
Amad, I get where you’re coming from – but I still disagree.
The basic gist of it all makes sense, because the majority of us do agree that violence against civilians etc. is in no way justifiable and so on; however, the wording of your post, and certain ideas which have been dragged in, obscures the main message and deflects attention from it.
Have you forgotten the statements and fataawah of the shuyookh, which came out after 9/11 and were widely publicized (including here on MM), which condemned terrorism and the perveted ideologies which fuel them? Have you forgotten the Gallup poll which told us what we (should) already know – that a minority of Muslims are ‘radicals’ who believe in terrorism tactics? The latest report which said that the Muslim masses oppose al-Qaeda et al.’s terrorist actions? And the many many studies which have repeated time and time again that Muslims do recognize the presence of dangerous misinterpretations of the Qur’an and Sunnah, and support the correct Islamic way of responding to these ideologies?
I think that we are severely misreading the number of people who support acts of terrorism in the name of Islam. All things considered, especially in terms of numbers, they are a minority – very loud, yes, but still a minority. And unfortunately, in our zeal to defend the true nature of Islam and Jihaad, we are coming dangerously close to labeling things in black and white while forgetting or overlooking the many, many shades of grey.
There are so many conflicts in the world that involve Muslims, yet we fail to realize that they’re not all about the same thing. They are caused by different factors, the details of the situations are so different, that we can’t just say “these are the good guys and these are the bad guys” in any given situation. So, maybe we should suffice with saying that certain actions are not condoned in Islam, but without going off into commentary about it that is not backed up by solid proof and genuine knowledge and understanding of that particular situation. W’Allahu a’lam.
“We can start by peoples idea of what Islam is and what should be forced on people and what freedom people are entitled to in Pakistan.”
What does that mean? We take a vote on Islam and its rules? I mean it would be better to call it a secular nation than twisting Islam so that Pakistan’s people will like it. Islam is not in need of Pakistan or any other nation it is vice versa. Allah is not in need of its creation but we are in need of Allah. People idea’s of Islam means nothing because people are just that layman. How can they say what should stay in Shariah and what cannot?
Allah says in Quran that he has completed our deen. Shariah has been ordained for muslims to follow in there public and personal lives. If they don’t follow it than it is going to hurt them in this life and hereafter.
Regarding hudood laws than thats another topic. It is not as simple as changing shirts.
Well amad i agree on the point that yes this act is bad. But you are making the same point as the supporters of Israel do “that just condemn a bombing while not looking at the big picture.”
Also nobody knows who have done this act. If we exclude India from any complicity because they are 20 years ahead than we can also exclude Pakistani Taliban because what will they gain from this attack? Nada. They have already reached a deal with the government why the heck will they fire at Cricketers bus. It is better to wait for a while before news start coming out. It is too early to even point out who did it.
Anonymouse, our voices (the widely publicized stuff) is not even 10% as widely publicized as you think. Just take a look at the sickening comments on the NYT article associated with this, and continue to keep this in mind:
The alternative to condemnation is silence. And unfortunately that is not an option these days when the both the Islamophobes and the terrorist-supporters are so loud.
Sohail, I did not mention the Pakistani Taliban even once. It could be any terrorist group: Al-Qaida, etc. Wallahualam.
Br. Naeem point taken. But as I said, silence is not a viable option.
It looks strange that authors (Amad, Ahmad, etc.) are discussing articles between each other in comments. You mean you guys don’t forward drafted articles to each other before putting them up?
It’s never a good idea to write a piece when one’s angry. The price for words that one uses are even higher when writing publicly, and they are harder to take back.
Mustafa, we are “independent” writers, with sometimes concurring opinions and sometimes different. The only one responsible for the opinion and view in the post is the author, unless the post is written by multiple authors. Thanks for asking, provides a good opportunity for clarification.
As far as anger, it was “composed anger”, i.e. not a mad bout of writing
I know what I am saying and have said it before, though your point is well-taken.
May Allah reward you akhi Ahmad al-Farsi and sister AnonyMouse.
I think Amad was addressing me with his questions about Bali, Mumbai and Swat, and if I’m not mistake, it was so he can gauge how much of a terrorist-lover I was and hence focus his argument from that perspective.
Amad, get this through your head please. We as Muslims do not support any attack which intends to kill non-combatants. No I don’t agree with what the brothers did in Bali, and I believe Mumbai to be a false flag operation staged by Indian authorities. As brother Ahmad said, Swat is a more complicated situation and if you’d ever bothered to look past what your beloved CNN and Fox feed you on a silver spoon (ahh…the luxuries of being an American Muslim!), you would’ve seen the mixture of elements fighting in Swat and the different motives. But all this is irrelevant.
What is relevant however, is that you a hate sinning Muslim over a kaafir. You have no idea of what it means to be harsh on kufaar and merciful amongst our brothers or sisters, even if they hold deviant views. You have no wala to Muslims or bara from the mushrikeen. You are someone who cares for the American Ummah over the general Ummah, and your posts and your anti-al Qaeda and anti-Taleban rants which you infuse into (almost) every post of yours reflect that.
What I saw in this event was a bunch of criminals who attacked a cricketing team. What you saw was a link to al-Qaeda and the ‘girls school blowing’ Taleban. I’m asking you why you saw this link. Contrary to what you claim, it is YOU who tries to link every evil to al-Qaeda/Taleban, not the ‘super-jihadis’. Infact, I challenge you to find me one person who has said that this is Jihad. I bet if a police officer got shot in NY, you’d be thinking that ‘Islamic terrorists’ have struck again and would probably be thinking of the best way you can (further) distance yourself from the Muslim and ensure that you maintain your apologetic and West-appeasing attitude.
Just so I enrage you a bit more: may Allah aid the brothers in al-Qaeda and Taleban and give them victory over the kufaar and all those who side with them.
P.S. Please grow some and don’t delete my comment.
You didn’t enrage me, you just helped confirm many of my premises. And the rest of your post also highlights many of the grave misconceptions, which will be duly clarified bi ithnAllah by our shayookh.
As a matter of fact, we do discuss potentially controversial articles before letting them out the door, and we do voice reservations we have, if any, when they go out. However, the discussion behind closed doors will be input on how to make the article stronger or better, and the author is free to add or subtract what he or she likes from that advice.
In the public square, we interact, debate, and discuss the same way the rest of you do, discussing the article’s’ merits and demerits. We agree on many issues, and we disagree on others as well. We read your input, and may agree or disagree with that as well in helping formulate our own thoughts on such matters.
Hope that clarifies things.
Siraaj
Inna lillaahi wa inna ilayhi raji’oon
Amad I don’t know how recently you have been to pakistan but having lived there regularly it is well known fact that CIA has over 40 offices in pakistan, the american envoys openly admit america has military basis in pakistan from which they launch all kinds of attacks and operations againat what they call “terrorists” which includes wedding guests, sheep farmers, women and children. So before you point finger at what you call islamists i suggest that you look at the bloody history of the CIA and to invite such an organisation into your country which pakistan has then you have destroyed your state security apparatus in one move.
These are worse than animals. Even animals have some decency. These people only know guns and bullets. They should be dealt with likewise. BOMB THEM. BOMB THEM. BOMB THEM. BOMB THEM FLAT. Just because they claim to have recited the Kalima, they should be called muslims. Gone are those days. They should act like muslims in order to make that claim.
Assalamu ‘alaykum
We have some takfeeris here.
Very noble effort Br. Amad, but do you really think that if the esteemed Sh. Salman al Odah (May Allah preserve him) was unable to reason with these Khawarijj based on Islamic Fiqh and human reason, that you would be any more successful? (http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=29&sub_cat_id=1521)
Do you really think that even clear and convincing evidence of the guilt of the perpertrators of violence in the name of Islam would convince these people? This psychological disease of “denial” is pervasive in the Muslim world. The fact of the matter is, it’s not really denial; to them the mere presence of “kuffar” in the Muslim countries is a greater evil than murdering innocent people, including fellow Muslims. Hence you will find repeated accusations against the CIA, or Mossad, or RAW, or any other non-Muslim connected intelligence agency, but not even a word of condemnation for the terrorists who have posted video beheadings of Pakistani Muslim soldiers after a “trial” in their kangaroo pseudo-shari’ah courts. The truth is that if these cowards were in the line of fire on the streets of Pakistan, and it was their families who were the “collateral” damage of these cowardly pseudo-Jihadi attacks, they would have a different perspective.
A sufficient response to their repeated justifications of murder and atrocities against innocent people, including innocent Muslims, in the name of Islam should be the following:
O You who believe! Stand up firmly for justice, as witnesses unto Allah, even against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor. Allah protects you both (much) better. So follow not the desires (of your hearts), because you may swerve, and if you distort justice, or decline to do justice; surely Allah is Well-Acquainted with all that you do. (Quran: 4:135)
Support you brother (in Islam) whether he is a wrong-doer or the one wronged. The Companions said to the Prophet (peace be upon him), Fine, we understand how to support him if he is wronged. But how are we to support him as an unjust person (wrong-doer)? The Prophet (peace be upon him) replied, By not letting him commit injustice. Hence, that is your support for him. (authenticated by At-Tirmidh?)
The only point of contention from the the At-Trmidhi hadith is whether Al Qaeda and their supporters have deviated so much as to take them outside of Islam, but I’ll leave to to scholars to decide. Regardless they should be shunned and condemned vigorously for any wrong deed they committ in the name of Islam because as you rightfully suggested, they are nothing more than kool aid drinkers. Now the response of people like “AnonyMouse” I find more disturbing: She writes:
“There are so many conflicts in the world that involve Muslims, yet we fail to realize that theyre not all about the same thing. They are caused by different factors, the details of the situations are so different, that we cant just say these are the good guys and these are the bad guys in any given situation. So, maybe we should suffice with saying that certain actions are not condoned in Islam, but without going off into commentary about it that is not backed up by solid proof and genuine knowledge and understanding of that particular situation. WAllahu alam.”
Sorry AnonyMouse, you may choose to remain meek and quiet in the face of slaughter of innocents in the name of Islam, but a Muslim is morally obligated to condemn the evil itself and the one who is committing it. Setting aside this particular instance, we know with certainty that these cowardly pseudo-Jihadis have claimed responsibility for most if not all of the previous attacks in Pakistan (and other countries). For a Muslim, there can be no black and white on murder of innocents, condemnation of the crime and the perpetrator s not only warranted, it’s mandatory.
Just as an aside, I love how the detractors think “Western” Muslims haven’t travelled to Muslim lands, or our exposure is limited to Western Media. Did free media, or at least the technology that allows all to benefit from it, not ORIGINATE in the West? As if we don’t have access to diversified sources or the islamic moral and basic analytical skills to sift truth from falsehood…how arrogant.
My parents live 5 miles from where this attack took place. I hope to have them leave this forsaken land to come and stay with me in America. At least a man has a decent chance to justice and security here. No doubt this nation’s foreign policies are as anathema to the soul of this nation as is sincere leadership to Pakistan. But we ALLOWED that foreign policy to seep in, we ALLOWED our success and failures to be determined by them… just look next door, why is India so far ahead? Yes the past few years may have seen the influences of neoconservative ideology in foreign policies, but to blame 50+ years of failure on the West is called living in denial.
salams
terrorists in this case, as in most cases = america.
i smell an american terrorist and indian terrorist hand behind this.
american terrorists must be stopped.
give peace a chance! america stop your terror!
ws
mashallah, you have a strong sense of smell…
Assalam alaikam Amad i am glad you have given up on pakistan because honestly we don’t need people who have a weak iman and defeatist mentality like yours. This statement of pakistan is a failed state which is always on cnn or other channels when speaking about pakistan is not new it always applied to pakistan for past 50 years so why are we still surviving allah(swt) knows best. This land has huge potential 200 + million population, all the resources only one thing missing sincere leadership. One last comment india has progressed i agree but also India has its share of problems it has separatists movements in every of its states, it has poverty problem which is not matched anywhere 1 out of 3 of the poorest people in the world reside in India so for all the shiny buildings, i would quote a line from Shakespeare “all that glitters is not gold”.
wasalam… Actually Jamal, you really do need people like me, at least that is what my dad said!
Somalia and Zimbabwe are also surviving as states, but barely surviving is nothing to be proud of. There is no doubt about the potential of Pakistani people. If given the opportunity, we can excel in anything. Our people have the same brains as the neighbors (same ethnicity, same great-great grandparents), we have pretty much the same resources, and above all, Allah also blesses the Muslim with baraka in his activities… So why are we so behind? Sincere leadership– absolutely. We never got that. But isn’t our belief that we get the leader we deserve? While we harp about how bad India is, we have pretty much become Indian in our customs (and not in the good customs, but the ones that are foreign to Muslims)? We are raised on Indian movies, we know Indian actors more than the name of our Sahaba, and yet we cannot appreciate the REAL progress that India has made– in education, in governance, etc. There is nothing wrong in emulating the good in those who don’t share our faith, but let’s emulate the good, not the Hindi movies!
AnonyMuslim:
Please show me where a Jihad group has claimed responsibility for this act. If you can’t, then you are making unfounded accusations of which I sincerely hope the people whom you slander hold you to account in front of Allah, ‘azza wajal. Learn to think before running your mouth with a massive post, the very premise of which is unfounded! For example:
‘Sorry AnonyMouse, you may choose to remain meek and quiet in the face of slaughter of innocents in the name of Islam, but a Muslim is morally obligated to condemn the evil itself and the one who is committing it.’
Please show me where anyone has claimed this act to be have done in the name of Islam!! Please! You people have to learn not to hate sinning Muslims but to hate your American masters, wala hawla wala quwata illa billah.
Amad, I will await responses from ‘your shuyookh’ inshallah. Just make sure ‘your shuyookh’ have a leg to stand on if they start lecturing on al-wala wal bara.
Brother Jamal, I too hope that Amad and the rest of his flock move their families from Pakistan. We do not need them, nor do they need us. They are American Muslims, an Ummah to themselves. People in these god-forsaken lands are crying to leave so they are not present when Allah’s wrath desends on them, but these people call a Muslim land ‘forsaken’ and wish to settle with the Mushrikeen! Allahu musta’an, and may He raise us with those whom we love. Ameen.
You know Abul Hasan, if tomorrow the American embassy starts offering open visas for America, 99.99% of the country will be lined up to come here. And the loudest ones like you will be probably first in line!
Who are “we” by the way in your “we do not need them”? I did not know that you had ownership rights to Pakistan? What reason does the country give for educated people to come back to it? What have people like you done for the nation? Please help us understand your contribution, so we can recognize it.
Its called RAW terrorism.
Mumbai’s Revenge. Perfect move by India to isolate Pakistan further.
Some of our “Jack in the Box” brothers and sisters have very short lived memories and don’t have a clue of the ground reality.
There was an incident last year in hyderabad, India where a bomb exploded inside a sunni mosque after friday prayers and it was blamed on “our own” muslim “terrorists” from Bangladesh. Many muslims just accepted that and CONDEMN “our own terrorists”. Well recently it was found out by the anti-terrorism squad that hindu extremists we involved in that.
Muslims need to understand that in this time of fitna, that the Apparent is what they want us to believe, no matter how crazy it is. So stop jumping and be patient and research a bit before you write.
Here is how it will most likely play out, just my prediction, only Allah knows the future:
Some Muslim group will likely take responsibility for it or the assailants will be captured. They will turn out to be Muslims. Most of our friends who are now asking for “wait, no one has claimed responsibility” will turn around and say that they don’t believe it. It will be either (a) media conspiracy, (b) government conspiracy, (c) Indian conspiracy, or (d) American conspiracy. Creative minds will say (e) CIA-RAW-MOSSAD triangular operation. Or if they accept it was Muslims, then (a) we can’t condemn them because they are still Muslims, because “the worst Muslim is better than the best kaffir”, or (b) they were taking revenge for (i) Kashmir or (ii) SWAT or (iii) NWFP attacks.
Of course the best outcome for Muslims will be that it is the Tamil Tigers, though highly unlikely (imagine planning a complex operation in a foreign territory), in which case we can all take a sigh of relief and pretend that Muslims have never been engaged in operations against civilians.
Stay tuned… I am.
What a silly discussion. No one likes the Pakistani government, the American government, or murderers of innocents. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty – if we have proof of a culprit, let’s see it – statistics are not proof.
I think one thing we’ve established in this discussion is that no matter who did this, retaliatory or not, this was just plain wrong – what does the Sri Lankan cricket team of all people have anything to do with anything?
Anyway, I’d like to stretch some minds here, and get some opinions since it seems we have multiple trains of thought offering input on this thread, and in particular, those citing al-wala w’al bara’, I have a question for you.
I’ve seen the following statement and variants a number of times::
Sometimes the terminology we use carries with it emotional value, and using the word “sinning” in English almost minimizes the impact of the type of sin we’re talking about – attempted mass murder.
A man once came to the Prophet sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam asking for permission to commit zina, to which he replied asking him if he would like the same to his closest female relatives. Realizing he wouldn’t want it for himself, he saw what he was asking for from the perspective of others rather than through his own eyes.
With this spirit in mind, if you will, just to test the principle you are speaking of, if a Muslim broke into your home, killed your male relatives, and raped your female relatives (your mother, your daughter, your wife, your sister, etc), what is your understanding of al-wala w’al bara’ in this situation, assuming this person is in, say, a western country / state which disallows the death penalty and frees him 3 years later on parole for good behavior, and now you see him in the street.
Would you consider him a sinning Muslim whom you have wara for? If so, why? If not, why? Would you wish him salaams? Would you come on an internet forum and tell everyone that we should love him more than peaceful nonMuslims who aid us (like George Galloway, for example)?
Siraaj
Siraaj, even though you called my engaging discussion silly
, full respect to your question… I look forward to any answers.
Salam,
Though I totally agree on totality of your article of your resentment, I resent your tone that you are so certain that this is as a whole, muslims (or so-called muslims) did it and they are responsible, may be true, not sure yet, its way too early to conclude.
Just a dimension, that never been brought up here, would like to add, by the way, my assumption could be completely false, but that does not mean that it can be neglected at this early stage.
It could have been done by LTTE as well, there are many reasons, statistically and reasonably.
* Pakistan is supporting SriLanka with arms and military aid, fighting LTTE (and killing thousands of innocent tamils too)
* LTTE is known to be anti-islamic, which killed muslims (including tamils) while they pray at the masjid (Read Here on Muttur Massacre)
* LTTE is having hard time now, as its almost got eradicated, so it needs to divert the Sri Lankan goverment and its supporters
* LTTE is known to operate on foreign countries (LTTE killed Former Prime minister of India, Rajiv Gandhi in India)
Again, I totally agree with the totality of your article, its just that your tone of predicting way too soon that it was done by muslims (or so-called muslims) as a whole (may be muslims could have been hired too) like media, needs little bit thought at this point of time.
May Allah save the people and save us from the terrorists, irrespective of whom they claim to be.
Barakumullahu Feekum.
Al-Madrasi… it was my hallmark “angry man tone” that whips some of our friends into a mad frenzy… just kidding. I understand your concern, and I am sorry for preempting. I did mention the Tamil Tiger possibility a few times, though I find that unlikely. And as I said, there would be nothing better than me being wrong… I would be happy for it. Let’s see inshallah…
btw, I forgot to add a disclaimer, that the link I gave on Muttur Massacre is graphical.
Funny how this post turned into the attack of the enraged and identity-challenged desi “abu” surnamed jihadis. Although Abu #1 deserves no response since he has already freely admitted to casting his lot with the khawarijj of Al Qaeda, I’ll provide this for the knowledge of the more reasonable reading this post:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-03/04/content_10937731.htm
60 “suspects” picked up in various parts of Punjab, maybe since Pakistan is 99% Muslim, all 60 were from the hindu/christian community? Or maybe they are part of the “40 CIA offices” in Pakistan?
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/suspects-at-liberty–bi
From the article, which ridicules conspiracy theorists:
“This, to many minds, absolved the jehadis of the act, and eyes were cast towards the eastern neighbour who, a senior analyst argued, had always found it easy to strike Lahore due to the proximity. But why would those looking to avenge Mumbai embroil another neighbour, Sri Lanka, in it?”
As for the other “brother” who claims Muslims accepted the indian theory that Jihadis were behind Mosque bombings in India? Show me one article where any Muslim “accepted” that theory? The truth of the matter is that India is now prosecuting hindu fanatics for engaging in that terrorist attack against its Muslim minority. Now I’m not absolving India of crimes against Muslims, but if we are going to raise previous incidents in India, do it honestly and with facts. As for who are their “scholars” that justify their outrageous ideology – outcatsts like “Imam” Anwar? Sorry but Salafi-rejects who are called “khawarijj” by their own leadership are not a legitimate source of islamic knowledge: Rejected by Salafi leadership: http://www.salafimanhaj.com/pdf/SalafiManhaj_Awlaki
Assalam o Alaikum Brothers and Sisters.
A special thank you to the writer of this article and all my support to the writer against these evil, unscrupulous, self centered, shameless, indecent and worthless beings who even consider being humans or Muslims.
Anyone who thinks they should even support or give even the slightest slack or benefit of the doubt to the people who did this MUST THINK again. How would you feel living in your own home where there is only fear of death that can come from anywhere? This is how it is in Pakistan right now. I spoke to my brother and he says that two police officers are scared to stand next to each other due to the fear that they might become a terrorist target. People being beheaded, schools being destroyed, Imam Bargas and Masajid being bombed…. YA ALLAH we are MUSLIMS. PAKISTAN GAINED INDEPENDENCE IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. The national anthem ends with a prayer that MAY THIS PAK LAND BEING IN THE SHADOW OF ALLAH’S PROTECTION. Yet these people the SO CALLED mujahdeen are attacking our masajid. What will it take to understand Pakistan is in a lot of trouble and that we have such animals living within the country that are destroying it from within. Do we need to see the dead bodies of masses including (MAY ALLAH FORGIVE AND PROTECT ALL) that of our family members to realize the urgency of the situation.
OPEN YOUR EYES people this is not a fairy tale and no prince charming is going to come in and save the day. The people of Pakistan have to rise to the occassion and stand united and fight this evil till it is totally removed. It is a cancer which needs to be treated. There is not two ways to this people, this very thinking has brought Pakistan once the fortress of islam to the brink of destruction.
PRAY TO ALLAH TO PROTECT PAKISTAN AND ITS PEOPLE. AMEEN.
If its conspired and done by pakistani’s who claim they are muslims, this is the worst thing that they could do to islam, muslims and pakistanis, needless to say, humanity.
AA- Amad,
“It will be either (a) media conspiracy, (b) government conspiracy, (c) Indian conspiracy, or (d) American conspiracy.”
And why is that such a detestable possibility? As if to say that everything that happens in the world is on the up and up. That nothing ever happens except as it outwardly appears? Really?!
The mere labeling of an explanation as a conspiracy is immediately writing it off and placing it at the extremities of acceptable reality. Your choice of wording belies your biased stance on the matter.
C’mon Amad, Poli Sci 101 teaches us to always look at which parties benefit most from world events in order to understand their true nature.
With all due respect bro, you seem to be a prime candidate for Chomsky’s ‘Manufacturing Consent’ theory.
But Br. Naeem, Chomsky is a Jew… he was planted to scare us into not believing anything so we can never arrive at solutions. How do you know that he isn’t part of the conspiracy, not a warner against it?
Sorry for the snark… but really, where does conspiracy get us? Or are you really suggesting that we don’t have a terrorism problem? I would agree with you if the answer to the first was positive, and to the second was a negative. Until that happens, it is more fruitful to take a path which has benefit in taking, even if the premise for taking it turns out to be hollow. What I mean is that if we work on solving our extremism problem, then that cannot hurt us, even if extremists are not responsible for every act that they are blamed for.
Funny how this post turned into the attack of the enraged and identity-challenged desi “abu” surnamed jihadis. Although Abu #1 deserves no response since he has already freely admitted to casting his lot with the khawarijj of Al Qaeda, I’ll provide this for the knowledge of the more reasonable reading this post:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-03/04/content_10937731.htm
60 “suspects” picked up in various parts of Punjab, maybe since Pakistan is 99% Muslim, all 60 were from the hindu/christian community? Or maybe they are part of the “40 CIA offices” in Pakistan?
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/suspects-at-liberty–bi
From the article, which ridicules conspiracy theorists:
“This, to many minds, absolved the jehadis of the act, and eyes were cast towards the eastern neighbour who, a senior analyst argued, had always found it easy to strike Lahore due to the proximity. But why would those looking to avenge Mumbai embroil another neighbour, Sri Lanka, in it?”
LTTE claim: This theory is so devoid of logic that not even the normally sensationalistic Pakistani media is entertaining the idea. Not to be offensive here, but if you think for one second that a dark, short, hindu tamil wouldn’t be an eyesore in Lahore, you have never been to the city. Further, as if an LTTE cadre would know the streets of Lahore well enough to be able to evade the security forces of Pakistan (who do know the area) on foot. The LTTE is fighting to survive in Sri Lanka, they don’t have the resources or capability to extend their reach into a foreign land where there people look nothing like Pakistanis, nor do they speak the language. Further, the LTTE are very organized and have widespread support from hindu tamils – go to tamilnet.com to get the views of the actual LTTE leadership, it is their official media.
As for the other “brother” who claims Muslims accepted the indian theory that Jihadis were behind Mosque bombings in India? Show me one article where any Muslim “accepted” that theory? The truth of the matter is that India is now prosecuting hindu fanatics for engaging in that terrorist attack against its Muslim minority. Now I’m not absolving India of crimes against Muslims, but if we are going to raise previous incidents in India, do it honestly and with facts. As for who are their “scholars” that justify their outrageous ideology – outcatsts like “Imam” Anwar? Sorry but Salafi-rejects who are called “khawarijj” by their own leadership are not a legitimate source of islamic knowledge: Rejected by Salafi leadership: http://www.salafimanhaj.com/pdf/SalafiManhaj_Awlaki
I must say AnonyMuslim, that the madkhalis behind “salafimanhaj” are the last ones to rely on for incrimination against any person of knowledge, otherwise by their count, we won’t have any left (except their “kibaar”). So, appreciate the sentiment, but I don’t think this one will held weight.
Pol Sci 101 does not teach you however, that your subjective opinion of “who is most likely to gain” should trump other theories which rebut it with direct evidence. “Who is most likely to gain” proponents also claim 9/11 was an israeli plot. Explain that to the 19 hijackers who released martyrdom videos of their operation. Explain that to khalid sheikh muhammad who was on “Top Secret” on Al Jazeera explaining how he financed and planned the attacks.
Sheikh Siraaj, may Allah elevate you rank, I will respectfully point to the apparent contradiction between your post (or at least the start) and that of Amad’s original artilce:
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, that is what the Sahri’ah says and what we all accept. I ask then, why is it that the Taleban/al-Qaeda were not given this benefit in the original article by Amad? Why were they even brought up and linked to this attack, which I have stated many times is completely wrong no matter who does it, when there is absolutely no proof or indication that they were responsible. That is the ONLY reason why I even got involved in this, to defend the honour of my Muslim brothers.
Amad answer me please, why did you link this to Jihad when no-one else, not even the ‘super jihadis’ or the ‘e-jihadis’, endorsed such an act? What did the Taleban/al-Qaeda have anything to do with this, and bring your proof to show a link. If you can’t then wallahi silence would’ve better for your akhira.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20715 – read that and open your eyes a bit to the world reality. Not every evil can be traced back to al-Qaeda/Taleban, contrary to what you wish/hope.
Regarding your comment on al-wala wal bara, Sheikh, I will respectfully say that you did not understand my point of view, and I will firstly like the above answered before moving on to side issues.
I ask then, why did you not even read my “original article” carefully? Please read it again, and please point me to the exact sentence where I mention Taliban OR Qaeda? And once you don’t find it, do not turn to conspiracy theories that references got scrubbed. Instead, recognize how in your blind rage, you did not even read the post thoroughly. Once you realize that you jumped the gun, no pun intended, then you don’t need to apologize for your mistake. Instead, just be careful next time before going on a verbal rampage.
Let us start with what we know:
Pakistani identity and unity is based on the 3 pillars of hatred and fear of India, love and interest in Cricket and love or fear of Islam
Pakistan as a nation never really got off the ground. There were its wars with India. There was Kashmir. There was the genocide in Bangladesh. There was the army and there were the fuedal lords. There was illiteracy and there is a lot blind-following and grave and saint worship. There is its love for Bollywood and Lollywood and lately even Hollywood. Then there was the Cold War and China and America and Afghanistan and Saudi. Then there is its nuclear bomb and poverty. Then there is the corruption and dictatorships, the sunni and the shia and Iran. Then it has its rote based madrasas and the founding of the Taliban. In this mix came al-Qaida, Musharaff and then 9-11 and then started the Global War on Terror and arrival of Nato and the drones. Bhutto promises to solve it all by democracy and fighting extremism and gets shot apart and so the people vote in her husband. It kills its tribal people to keep the aid dollars flowing in and pays the prize of allow the country to be set a blaze.
All along, in the hand of functional and Islamic illiteracy and weak Islamic knowledge base, Islam is held hostage and taken for a ride, abused and used by whatever of these interest groups and the masses none the wiser. The result that people are either more radicalised ‘on an lliterate reading of Islam’ or or shun Islam for the lifestyle choices of Lollywood, Bollywood and Hollywood. It would appear the majority choose the latter, whilst the minority fight back with the ‘illiterate form of what they consider to be Islam’.
So with Islam in reality in crisis in Pakistan, the question we can ask is who and what benefits from an attack on Sri Lankan cricketers?
The intended outcome of such attack could only have been either:
1) To harm the image of Islam and Muslims and Pakistanis around the world
2) To further alienate Pakistanis from Islam by implying this act was done by so called ‘Islamic’ extremists
3) To destablise Pakistan to such degree that either its government collapses and give opportunity for Al-Qaida/Taleban to come in and takeover
4) To destablise Pakistan to such degree that it collapses and thereby international community is forced to take pre-emptive action to take into custody Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal and therefore neutralise the so called ‘Islamic nuke’
With 3 being the least likeliest possible outcome, with AQ and Taliban focused on Afghanistan, the only possible perpertrayors that logically can benefit from this is India, Iran or the West.
I think Pakistanis need to take a deep hard look at themselves and determine how Pakistan can reverse some of the above issues.
Foremost in my mind is the need for Pakistanis to embak on road to functional literacy and knowledge based Islam. Any other route spells disaster for Pakistan
“Complexitysimplified” (oxymoron??): I like your little historical primer, and I would agree with a lot of it. But you failed to add a (5) and (6) to the intended outcome:
(5) Cause terror, in “revenge” for lal masjid, x, y, z. How better to get back at a country than to kill its guests. Look at what it has done to Pakistan’s image. Revenge accomplished.
(6) Who said that terrorist operate on any logic? Sometimes madness is just that… madness.
anyone who thinks these attacks are not preplanned by the west and their allies is absolutely naive. it is well known that in order to counter the rising power of China, the west needs there to be a stable eastern pakistan and india. furthermore, it is not a coincidence that the majority ruling party was kicked out by zardari just last week and then this week we have an attack that will further provide justification for zardari and his crew to stay put. quite frankly, the only people we should be sick of are the ones who are naive.
‘I ALSO resent those who continue to defend these thugs, those who continue to exalt jihad without giving it full justice (i.e. relating all the nuances and the forbidden forms of it), and those who do not take a second look at the animals that the perverted form of this jihad is creating. While these super-jihadis jump to attack injustice by the West (rightfully), they free themselves from even mentioning the crimes against humanity that these terrorists continue to commit! This includes lay keyboard jihadists who spend day and night exalting terrorism, because in their perverted brains, killing innocent civilians is somehow justifiable.’
By writing the above, you implied that this was carried out in the name of Islam and Jihad, and from your previous rants of hate and reference to ‘destroying girls’ schools’, it is obvious to all whom you were referring to. I’ve been asking this of you all along and you keep sidetracking: bring me a proof that this was done in the name of Jihad and that ‘super-jihadis’ have been ‘exalting’ this act?
Also read the initial responses to your article, by myself, R, Ahmad al-Farsi and sister AnonyMouse. We all saw you trying to link an attack on a Sri Lankan cricket team to Jihad with absolutely no proof. You could’ve started your rant after there was some sort of proof or indication that a Jihad group* was behind this, and I wouldn’t have bothered commenting because I may even have agreed with you.
So my friend, it was you who jumped the gun in the first place.
* I initially wrote ‘Jihad group’ in my first response, and later specified it to Taleban/al-Qaeda. My bad, I will take that specification back and revert to using the term Jihad group.
I actually now understand why people call you and you likes neo-cons.
Convenient but too late. You can assume whatever you wish to. But you cannot put words in my mouth or in this case into my post. Sometimes, it is better to admit an error and move on.
Moving on to what you quoted, if you read what you quoted from my post carefully, I did not say that this particular act was done in the name of jihad, but rather I resent those who defend thugs like these in the name of jihad (example: Bali bombers, I hope you don’t need me to show you where it was exalted?). Do you see the difference? I won’t be surprised if that is eventually the case, but that is not what I said. Rather, AGAIN that is what you assumed.
By the way, you did not fully answer my question about beliefs on different attacks, including 9/11? And you haven’t answered Siraaj’s questions. I look forward to your answers.
Asslam u alaikum wr wb
As someone living in Pakistan, I find some portions in the article to be presumptive in nature. I feel the problem lies with the foriegn and information ministries currently in Pakistan. Instead of clarifying their stance on the issue, they too jumped to the “those jihadis did it” slogan. And Im sorry to see that many of the readers here have done the same. The Indian media and government in unision turned their fire towards Pakistan right after the Mumbai attacks despite the fact that there exist multiple separatist and extremist sections within India itself. Whether we like it or not, conspiracies govern the way world politics changes today to a large extent. I just lost a family member in swat who was in the army. Yet his close family say that there are reports of Indians within Swat fighting as so called Jihadis. I know that there is a small sick section within the Ummah who would applaud such things but that should not make us also assume the “Im sorry wer’e peace loving” stance. I am sorry for the loss of life (which was Muslim by the way) and the injuries and shock caused to the team members BUT please don’t jump to conclusions. As for Usamah Bin Laden’s claim of blowing up the WTC, I won’t even comment on that. All I am saying is that while displaying resentment and regret, we should stay truly “unbiased”. I’m not into living ones life based on conspiracy theories either but we cannot totally do away with them as well. The RAW and MOSAD have a full fledge network within Pakistan (My father was in the forces and we were into these discussions a lot). The pity is that they can recruit the local people to do their job (typical of Mir Jaffar and Mir Sadiq / poverty as the issue – only ALLAH Knows).
This is getting a little heated. Everyone needs to sit down and drink some chi .
Bring me the proof that such an attack has any links to a Jihad group, or if any claimed responsibility before you implied their invovlement.
All I ask.
Asslam u alaikum wr wb
Further more during the 80s, the ISI was in its majority, a religious organization. That is why it came to be feared (and this is based on facts not theory). That is why you will find many a times (as on this occasion) the current and previous government asserting the stance that nowadays ISI is completely under the control of the government which (despite its non claims) is secular by outlook. Please bear an open view towards other lines of thinking. While having said all this, I maintain that its inhumane to carry out assaults against civilians be they muslims or otherwise.
Amad, I appreciate the idea of questioning a source before accepting anything they write as accurate. In this instance, I was simply pointing out that even those among the people of the “madhab” he claims alleigance to, gov’t sheikh label notwithstanding, he is regarded as a fanatic. I’m by no means Salafi, however the specific refutations they give of Awlaki’s “call to Jihad” are something you could find any scholar saying. I would also recommend you listen to the “This is Jihad?” lecture by Sh. Nuh Keller (May Allah preserve him) if you haven’t heard it already – and that particular lecture was given in the heart of takfeeri darkness itself, London. Btw, I think it’s absolutely hilarious you were called “neocon” earlier in this thread!
AnonyMuslim, I haven’t heard Nuh Keller’s lecture on it, but I am sorry but I have little respect for the man whose only focus in the world is attacking those dang wahabi bogeymen. Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of good sources on refuting the pseudo-khawarij, though Sh. Salman Oudah has done a great job in peeling through some of their facade. We are also waiting for some of our Shayookh to discuss these issues ground-up.
Amad,
the PPP was behind the PIA aircraft hijacking in 1981
Plus, they were also directly involved in the May 12 mayhem in Karachi. These people are cut throats. The secular parties are the real militants in Pakistan. They have been torturing and killing civillians for decades, much before the Swat and Waziristan issues. The thing is: post 9/11 they have become ‘saints’, like Ehud Barak post Oslo. And the thing is without any proofs we will continue to blame the Islamists, taking the neo-con bait hook,line and sinker
Amad wrote:
“o, if Muslims claim responsibility, will we believe that? Will we blame conspiracies at that time? ”
No! Please see:
7/7- Ripple Effect
and
7/7 Mind the Gap–By David Shayler–EX MI-5 British Intelligence officer
Why should we buy terrorist (aka Bush, Obama, Blair, neo-cons etc) propoganda? Especially when many of their own subjects are not?
Inna lillahi wainna ilayhi rajioon
As-salamaulikum,
Walaa and Baraa is a topic that shouldn’t be discussed in the comment section of a post. It requires a separate post for it. You see Muslims who have no knowledge about walaa and baraa might just assume one of the commenter’s post to be “ilm”. It’s better to not discuss then to misguide someone.
Also, a request to MM’s Sheikhs. It’ll be way better if they participate in such discussions.
Sure “Abu Maryam” another confused desi w/an arab jihadi moniker – the neocons are biting their fingers in anticipation of Muslims blaming Radical Jihadi militants, for an attack on a cricket team in Pakistan. The Necons secretly know that the so called “jihadis” couldn’t possibly have committed this dastardly act as they are known only for selling flowers and roses. Give it a rest. No one is saying the PPP or any other political organization in Pakistan are saints, but to then stretch that twisted logic to conclude they are behind terrorist attacks in Pakistan in collusion w/India or Israel or anyone else is absurd. If that’s the case, maybe stupid Pakistanis who elected them deserve their fate? No, the more likely culprits are the same people who order 12 year old tribals to behead Pakistani soldiers on camera and upload it to liveleak.com Besides, let’s do away with the charade here “Abu” Maryam, you are a supporter of radical jihadists like Bin Laden, Omar Bakri, etc., quit trying to win over rational Muslims with your pseudo-intellectual conspiracy nonsense. Put your laptop away, drink your ovaltine and go to sleep, you have a long day at school tomorrow.
Salaam alaykum akhi,
I’m not a shaykh, but I’ll take your du’aas, ameen, and may Allah subhaana wa ta’aala also increase your rank as well into jannatul firdaus, ameen.
Yes, I agree with your point about innocent until proven guilty, and that is why I mentioned statistical probability is not a proof, nor are hunches. I know some think this is black ops, and others think it’s a jihaad-oriented group, and I’ve seen proof neither way so I prefer silence on the culprits until definitive answers are provided. That is my personal opinion, given my ignorance of the situation and politics of the area.
I hope that clears my own thoughts on this.
Since I’m here, I’d also like to say that I happened to read some of the IA forums on this article, and I was saddened to read the posts on there. I don’t think disagreement with an article should lead practicing Muslims to such poor adab in written speech. One of the brothers on there wrote the following du’aa
“May Allah give them what they deserve.”
A good brother earlier wrote on this blog that if all of us were to receive what we deserved, we would all be in Hellfire. Imagine now, for the du’aas you make for your Muslim brother, an angel makes the same du’aa for you. As another good brother said, we can disagree without being disagreeable. There is no need for people to engage in e-gheebah – I fear this sin greatly, and I fear standing at the gates of Jannah, only to become the bankrupt person who loses my deeds as a result of words I have spoken against other fellow Muslims, and as I do not wish it for myself, I do not wish it for my brothers and sisters on that forum either.
If any of those brothers and sisters are reading, or if you can convey this, then let them know whatever our disagreements, Allah is the one we worship, and He is the One we’re trying to serve – we are all trying our best to figure out what He wants from us, and as sure as two groups of Sahabah differed on whether to pray ‘Asr immediately or upon reaching Banu Quraydah, we too, with our different backgrounds and understanding, will come to different conclusions about the best way to worship Allah and please Him in these contemporary matters, but let us not doubt that we are all trying our best – let us instead pray for one another’s guidance to what is most pleasing to Allah, and let us follow the example of mercy by our beloved Prophet, who would not, on his worst day, in his worst hour, destroy at-Ta’if, hoping its descendants would become Muslim – just as he held that mercy towards nonMuslims who harmed him, llet us exemplify the same mercy towards one another, fellow Muslims.
Siraaj
Seems that it means the whole duniya for some when mushrik cricketeers from sri lanka are being attacked. where was this fierce talk and condemnation when the Shari’a was and is still being violated in Pakistan?
Where were you Amad when the Red Mosque was attacked by the despicable soldiers of musharraf, the ones that you most likely call true muslims? Where are these people when the american army can freely send their unmanned aircrafts violating any agreement when they kill young and old with their rockets that do not differ between humns or animals?
Cricket seems to be more important than Islamic Sharia being implemented in Pakistan.
What a miserable condition ..
Wa’alykumus salaam warahmatullah Sheikh Siraaj, may Allah honour you and your parents with Jannah al-Firdaws. Ameen to your kind dua’a, and may Allah reward you likewise.
‘ I know some think this is black ops, and others think its a jihaad-oriented group, and Ive seen proof neither way so I prefer silence on the culprits until definitive answers are provided. That is my personal opinion, given my ignorance of the situation and politics of the area.’
I think this is the best approach and one that should’ve been taken in the best place.
I have forwarded your concerns onto the IA board, may Allah reward you for reminding us of the importance of adab. I hope I kept a decent standard throughout the discussion, and if I have wronged anyone, specifically Amad, then I ask for your forgiveness.
Asalaamu Alaykum Amad,
This article is setting a dangerous precedent and warping MM into something it is not aka an ultra-politically liberal ranting blog.
Since you tend to post the most, your opinion ends up reflecting MM, the shuyookh and supporters of MM (like me).
Please be more careful when taking on such issues.
While I emphatically disagree with Abdul Hasan’s praises of certain Muslim groups, he is completely right in regards to evidence.
I am pretty sure I am not the only one who knows a little about the POLITICAL situation there (from pakistan’s political parties to pakistani gangs to even the tamil tigers).
Just because non-Muslims are making the connections to Muslims doesn’t mean we should as well.
I was reading an Italian Muslim website (which is uised often for Islamic resources) and it’s condemnation of Hamas for Israel’s attack on Gaza.
This post reeks of this same attitude with a little bit of GWB “pre-emptive strike” understanding.
“A muslim group is gonna claim responsiblity anyway, might as well blame them too” is not a good argument nor is it right for you to put this attack in the same category of all other civilian attacks purported to have been done by Muslims.
Oh and am I the only one that noticed MUSLIMS died?
What Islamic group thinks it can have any legitmacy with killing of Muslims…
May Allah forgive their sins, grant them jannah and give sabr to the victims’ friends and family.
Ameen.
Asim, I am sorry akhi, but if this is ultra-liberal, then I can only imagine what those left of us are?
Secondly, and I think it is obvious from the comments of other MM authors, that each post ONLY reflects the opinions of the author. So, your statement is factually incorrect and also I hope is perceptually incorrect to most readers, especially when they see disagreement among authors. What something like this, if true, will do is to stifle opinions, because each of us will have to get consent to our views. And that will not only slow down MM, but will make it far less diverse and rich in opinion. So, I urge you and others not to make the mistake of putting all MM writers in one box, unless it is a gigantic one
Btw Shaykh Siraaj is awesome. I love randomly asking him for fatwas
A letter written to the editor of Dawn newspaper of Pakistan:
The Editor,
The Daily Dawn
http://www.dawn.com
Dear Sir:
Apropos to the news item, “”Sri Lankan cricket team attacked near Gaddafi Stadium” (Dawn, 3-3-2009).The incident was vicious and brutal, and the loss of innocent lives is regrettable. However, one cannot help notice the similarities between this and previous terrorist strikes, in that it comes at an oppurtune time for some players with a stake in Pakistan’s future. On the one hand there is an impending long march, and agitation due to the SC ruling in the Sharif court, while on the other hand an extremely fragile peace in Swat, which the government is under intense pressure from the West. The MI-5 former officer and whistle blower, David Shayler in his documentary “7/7 Mind the Gap” provided enough evidence that the 7th of July bombing on the London underground trains was the handiwork of British intelligence and Tony Blair’s governemnt to sell the Iraq War to the British people and make the UK a police state. 9/11 conspiracy theory are also credible to a wide section of the international audience.
It is also notable that the suicide attacks on Mr. Pervez Musharraf also occured at times most oppurtune to him when Western diplomats would be visiting etc. Infact some of the ‘arrests’ of terrorists occured on our soil when he was on a foreign tour, which strengthened his position as ‘the man for the job!’ I believe that an anology can be made that perhaps the ruling elite wants to divert attention from its problems and from the opposition’s impending agitation movement. Or it may be the Western allies trying to thwart a shaky peace. After all Mr. Zardari was never nearly as ‘scrupulous’ as Mr. Musharraf.
Amad,
Please read this:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=20715
Govt was warned about attack but did nothing
________________________________
ISLAMABAD: The Crime Investigation Department (CID), Punjab, had accurately warned the Punjab government on Jan 22, 2009 about an Indian plan to target the Sri Lankan cricket team during its visit to Pakistan.
How is the attack on Sri Lankan Cricket team a revenge?
Well at least we all must agree that those who committed this terror act whether RAW, Mossad, or deviant muslims are wrong and are terrorists.
thank god for saving over team from serious damage, and i cant imagine what happen to me and other Srilanken if couple of players from our team died..and this terrorist group is capable and armed to kill whole srilanken team and their aim was to do that, fortunately players escaped, imagine what happen if whole team where killed? i cant understand why thies people targeted innocent srilanka cricketers? have they done anything harmful to Muslims or Pakitanis or even terrorist? have Srilanken Government done any harm to pakistan people or Muslims?
Anon-
Valid point. Of course wacky conspiracies do exist. I’m simply asking that any possible explanation that is contrary to mainstream thought (who defines that? hmmmm) not be written off as a conspiracy.
Blaming terrorism has become such an easy scapegoat, mainly because it doesn’t require us to provide any nuance in our analysis.
Assalam Alaykum Amad and to everyone else who posted on this thread.
I’m just going to say this [like saying this will really make a difference (note the sarcasm)] :
Posting this article/post was a very bad idea.
Here is a thought: if you run the query “Muslims condemn Mumbai?”, the first blog you will get to is Jewish journal. And who do they quote for this condemnation? You guessed it: MM. Alternatively, all Muslim blogs/sites remain quiet, and let LGF, frontpage, be where people end up to get the ONLY side of the story? Think about it. We might feel that this condemnations are not necessary, but from the other side’s vantage, they hardly see it.
The internet is a battle of hearts and minds… and as I stated before, if you don’t get your voice heard, no one is going to raise it for you. I am in this arena, and I understand it. For Muslims in the West, this is FAR more critical, so don’t let those who sit in the East, where the problem of Islamophobia is not an issue, set our agenda.
Finally, if you don’t like these types of posts, there is plenty of diversity and different rich content available on MM
P.S. If this still isn’t clear, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Thank you for all your feedback.
P.S.#1: Waalaikumasalam Nabeel. Feedback is always good, and it doesn’t have to be sarcastic either. We all learn and move together.
Amad, can’t you get the idea? The Jewish blog quoted MM and perhaps you, because they want all Muslims to be exactly like you, taking their bait hook,line and sinker.
And just for the record, you dont speak for Muslims. Not for me at least, and a whole lot of others who hate your ideas
Well I disagree that his only purpose is attacking Wahabbi “bogeyman” as you claim. He is making a legitimate effort in turning the corrupted hearts of British-Pakistani youth away from fanatics like Sh. Bakri, Awlaki, etc. That’s more that can be said for many shuyookh. They have a responsibility to the Ummah to prevent this type of radicalism from spreading…besides you should listen to the lecture before criticizing it. Again, as was the case with the Salafi Manhaj article, many of the points Sh. Nuh raises are not controversial at all. For example, he says that Islam should not be learned from “page-turners” people whose exposure to Islam is limited to reading a book on Jihad by Sh. Abdullah Azzam. This is the problem with many Muslim youth today.
“Abu” Maryam, let me assure you that Amad and other MM contributors speak for more Muslims then any internet jihadi clown on the so called “Islamic” Awakening forums.
Does Pakistan have Muslims ready to kill other Muslims over differences on religion? Yes.
Did Pakistan suffer from terrorist attacks whose responsibility has been claimed by Muslim groups? Yes.
Did Pakistan accept that the Mumbai terrorists have Pakistani origins? Yes.
Are there people being killed by Pakistani religious radicals right now in Northern Pakistan? Yes.
Attacking visiting Sri Lankan cricketers was wrong and plain wrong and deserve to be condemned. There’s no nuances here. Whoever did this should be roasted to death over a slow fire.
What bugs me is that some people still make excuses for these terrorists, still believe in some conspiracy theory despite being obviously intelligent people, and REFUSE to acknowledge that a terrorist problem exists in Pakistan despite the above facts being all true.
Pakistan is on its way to be a failed state. It’s time to stop blaming India or the West and start acknowledging their problems and fixing their attitudes. The first step is to recognize that people have the right to practice their religion the way they see fit. Without basic freedoms a nation cannot rise.
AnonyMuslim, please be mindful of adab with those with whom you disagree, esp here on MM. There is no benefit in calling people names like “confused desi wanna-be Abu somethings.”
Ease up old man. It is not yet known who did it. Could’ve been Indian agents, or anyone else. You need to breath and condemn what happend. Don’t read into it more than the detectives on the scene are.
Assalamu ‘alaikum Br. Amad,
I hope you do realize that people would’ve more respect for your opinion if you were actually fair in your analysis, and recognized any one of the various possibilities. It’s strange that you accuse certain “da’ee(s)” in east of being loud mouths and speaking without any right about issues of Muslims in America, while obviously being disconnected from reality in America. Yet, you’re doing exactly the same thing. Sitting in your comfortable little sofa, you think you know the ground situation in Pakistan, just because you make the routine trip once every summer? See the contradiction here? What’s more your rants, perhaps partly in response to others’ rants, are becoming more and more childish, and every time you somehow conjure up a bizzare connection between ‘girls-schools being blown up, to ‘awlaki’, to ‘cyber jihadis’? And, what’s more you are hell bent upon imposing your OWN opinion on everyone else, as is clearly displayed in this comments section.
As someone currently living in Pakistan, I can say the following:
a) Taliban isn’t running amok in our streets- so stop fear mongering and acting an expert on Pakistani Polity.
b) The word on the street is that attack is either inside job or a Black OP.
Now, just today Sri Lanka’s Foreign Minister held a press conference with Pakistani’ Foreign Minister, and he made a statement that LTTE could be involved!
Now surely for you and your faithful crony Jaysh (aka AnonyMuslim), he must surely also be SOME CRACK CYBER JIHADIST CONSPIRACY THEORIST? . Going by your logic, he must be…and maybe he’s doing Taqiyyah?!
You’re only making yourself look stupid by jumping to conclusion and stifling legitimate debate, and showing double standards.
I don’t intend any offence by this comment, however if your larger than life ego is hurt- feel free to edit, but I’d appreciate it if you don’t delete it, as I’ve made some valid points.
Salam.
I don’t understand why should Muslims engage in self-flagellation every time some jihadist group commits a terrorist act. Yes, we must condemn these acts, but engaging in extreme self-criticism is ridiculous. Do American, Israelis, etc. do this when their governments commit violence? Many of the Zionists were cheerleading the violence that the Israeli government unleashed on Gaza.
AnonyMuslim, you seem to be employing the Abdul-Hakim Murad of attacking the so-called “Khawarij”. Have you or your kind ever condemned the enemies of Islaam with the same vehemence that you reserve for the “Khawarij”? Yes, the jihadist groups have committed many transgressions and they must be condemned for this and it is imperative that they change their tactics in this regard, but why should they always take all the blame from your kind and the enemies of Islaam get a free pass?
Sorry Ahmad and MM staff, I will refrain from letting them get under my skin in future posts, iA. Thanks for the reminder.
this attack on Sri Lanka’s cricket team was senseless to say the least, nothing but destructive to all parties involved
Mezba hold your horses for a bit.
Mezba first of all do you know who has done it? Secondly Pakistan has more problems than Taliban running around. Illiteracy rate in Pakistan is 51%, Poverty is well around 70%, half the population is being looted and opressed by the very same enlightened bureuacrarts and politicians that you love. Taliban is nothing compared to these problems.
According to your rants the only problem in Pakistan is Terrorism by the Islamists. Please enlighten me before all this happened lets say 10 years back where was Pakistan progressing. There was no Taliban at that time but still Pakistan was standing on the edge of bankruptcy because of its elites and dacoit politicians. In last 60 years of independence Pakistan is being ruled by the secular forces and army while Pakistani Taliban just arose. What was stopping Pakistan from progressing all those years? You blame the easy scapegoat when you find one but do not have the courage to look at the real picture because of being brainwashed.
Taliban and religious tolerance is the least of problems in Pakistan if you are really fair. The secular political parties in Pakistan are the real fitnah that is causing Pakistan to fail not the other way round. The current President is by far the least Islamic person and same can be said of the last Presidents and prime ministers. They didnt do jack for Pakistan.
Regarding Islam than that is preserved in the Quran and Sunnah and no one has the right to change it. If you feel that it should be changed according to the whims of people than adopt some other religion because Islam is not the religion that you want. Also India has the same problems why don’t you put those up and ask them to change a bit. Riots among Hindus and muslims are common in India, now the other minorities are being attacked. What the heck does religious freedom has to do with it? I hope you are not asking the muslims to accept Qadianis as muslims again.
I don’t LOVE Pakistani politicians and beauracrats. They are the same ones who joined with the army in comitting a genocide in Bangladesh. So spare me the accusation that I love secular Pakistani politicians.
In fact, the core problem is the Pakistani people.
1. Their acceptance of substandard leadership (and yes, I made the same accusation to Bangladesh on my blog when we chose Haseena as our PM).
2. Uneducated. Most Pakistani people are illiterate and have no clue what Islam is yet vent that they want Shariah law. Who decides what is Shariah? Some imam with dubious credentials and people flock to support them in Pakistan.
3. Tolerance. Shias and sunnis have been killing each other for years in Pakistan. They can’t tolerate the fact that someone can view religion differently. This is what I mean by freedom and tolerance. As for Qadianis, why should you persecute them just because they believe in another Prophet after Muhammad (pbuh). As a state who are you to decide if someone is Muslim or not. Pakistan should be home for all Pakistanis.
4. Acknowledgement. I have said many times and I will say it again, unless the Pakistani leadership and Pakistani people acknowledge and apologize for the terror of 1971 their country cannot improve. Allah has said wrongs done to another person is the right of that person to forgive. Pakistan has not even asked for forgiveness so why will Allah help the nation? Remember your leaders represent you.
5. Arrogance of “Muslimness”. Pakistanis think they are a Muslim state. They are not. They shouldn’t be. They should be a state for all Pakistanis where everyone is equal regardless of religion. Shoaib Malik after losing the 20-20 competition thanked all Muslims who prayed for Pakistan’s victory against India. How arrogant is he to think all Muslims were supporting Pakistan? I wasn’t. The man of the match for India was a Muslim.
6. India may have problems. Actually India HAS problems. That is no excuse for Pakistan to have problems.
7. Finally, Suhail, if you think Islam cannot be changed, that’s another topic and post. Your statement is true, but also not true depending on how you look at it. For example, Sharia laws during Umar and Ali (pbut)’s times were different. Why? Islam is the same but the application of the laws are different. That’s what I mean.
Jazakallahu khairan Abul Hassan for stating the HAQQ.
I am sick of such condemnations too! Pakistan is messed up country and anyone, literally anyone – even the government parties themselves could carry out such attacks for their own agendas!
How does it feel Amad to be attacked for doing the right thing. Don’t you know that you committed the unforgivable sin of admitting that there is a serious, serious problem in the Muslim ummah? They’re doing to you what you did to me, condemning you for doing the right thing. If it took an attack less than five miles from your parents to wake you up Amad then so be it. I’m not going to do to you what you did to me, accuse you of “turning on your own” or siding with the enemies of Islam. I was condemning this stuff when you were impugning my Islam bro. I think you owe me an apology don’t you think?
AR, this is a VERY different issue on the basis of which I criticized you. My issue with you was based on making separations and barriers along lines of race and “immigrant-status”, issues about conspiracy theories related to the “immigrant syndicate”, accusing Imams such as Siraj Wahhaj of being Uncle Toms, etc. I did not have an issue with you condemning terrorism, etc. and I have been doing this for some time now… So, it really has nothing to do with my parents, because for instance, they were quite far from Mumbai.
Anyway, appreciate the thoughts.
@ Amad
You might also find this helpful in your crusade to combat terrorism and mayhem.
http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2009/03/04/has-pakistan-become-a-land-of-murderous-cowards/
@ Amad
Come on man, we were in agreement for a moment but now you’re reverting back to spin and bullcrap! Amad you know as well as I do that all of the natiioal Muslim organizations that I wrote about, the syndicate, are full of people who want to bring down America. I’m also quite sure that you do as well, or at least did until you realized it would be a nice safe place for your parents to live and get away from the madness. I have never been, and am not now, opposed to immigration per se, that was how YOU spun it! I am against radical ideology dressing up in three piece suits trying to smuggle itself into this country.
Bro, give up the radicalism and really fall in love with this country! Its not perfect, but I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else.
ARM: Here is my article: The Scourge of Internet Tribalism. Please tell me how my issues with your positions, highlighted in this post, have anything to do with the subject at hand.
Actually, ARM, I don’t know, and I don’t believe that the organizations are “full” of people or even a significant minority of people who want to bring America down.
Which radicalism? Is radicalism=orthodoxy? In my mind, radicalism is clear– anyone who believes that civilians are fair-game. Beyond that, there are nuances and shades of gray. And good people who disagree with this country’s policies can still love it. Most people will not argue with you that America is a great place to live in. But the real patriots are the ones who don’t allow the government to do whatever it wants, to look the other way while America turns the rest of the world upside down, or when it starts spying and disrupting the civil rights of its own citizens. You can disagree and still love it. I don’t buy the Republican definition of patriotism, i.e. accept everything that they shove down your throat.
America is not perfect, yes, and no country is. But we can’t just pretend the imperfections don’t exist and ignore them. The way that Islamophobia is infiltrating this society (consider Geert Wilders official invitation here with a sitting senator!), if we don’t take action, even the most American pie Muslim will be a target. We don’t want radicals, but we don’t want Zuhdi Jassers, and other sell-outs either.
w/s
Reply to Muneer88:
Allah says in the Qur’an – translated (Surah 5: Ayah 32):
“……if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land – it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits in the land!.”
Did these mushrik cricketeers, who were a guest to your country, murder anyone? Did they come to spread mischief in your land (before you say yes, go read tafseer of what is meant by mischief here)?
Will you after reading the above ayah, still continue to support those that exceed the limits of Allah?
Perhaps you have never been to Sri Lanka or left your country – let me tell you a little of my experience of visiting Sri Lanka in 2004. Alhamdulillah I work for a Muslim relief agency, so get to travel to some places and see the reality in those countries.
Firstly do you know that about 10% of Sri Lankans are Muslim? Not many Muslims out there know that. I for one did not expect the numbers to be so high. You may also know that Sri Lanka has been in a midst of civil war [with their own hindu (tamil tiger) suicide bombers]. I wonder if the people of Lal Mosque (who also support and advocate suicide bombings) learned their deen directly or indirectly from these hindu pioneers of suicide bombings?
I had heard Muslim were caught in cross-fire in the civil war between the Hindu Tamil Tigers and Buddhist Government [Muslim were largely being killed/ethnically cleansed by the Hindu Tamils]. With only scant knowledge of Sri Lanka, my knowledge that it was country in midst of civil war and significant number of Muslims having been killed previous and/or displaced – I found myself having to visit Sri Lanka in 2004 for an urgent assignment following the tsunami. I arrived there without a visa, knowing that someone with red passport can get one on arrival. Nonetheless with my waajib beard (that’s the one we men supposed to keep at least fistful long), I was apprehensive of travelling to this non-Muslim south Asian country and how I would be received by immigration and whether they would allow me in without being interrogated for too long by the expected ‘mushrik’ immigration and airport security/intelligence for my appearance as a masha’Allah ‘youthful fundamentalist Muslim’.
I was worried on setting off on the flight and made lots dua on the plane that I return safely and face on oppression in that land (nor that I cause any oppression that land) and that I pass through immigration and get the visa without too much hassle.
On arrival, to my delight I found a Muslim manning the immigration desk, who without question stamped my red passport with a 60 day visa. Immediately on passing the immigration desk, I was awestruck by masha’Allah seeing an airport musallah (yes, that’s place where Muslims pray Jamaat when a proper Masjid is not available) as the very first thing that you encounter on exiting from the immigration area in the duty free section.
These mushriks whose life you place no value on, yet Allah considers you killing them unjustly as being like killing all of humanity, were they to have the same ignorant attitude and belief as you would have killed off all their Muslim citizens, would have burned down all the masaajids. Rather they have honoured Muslim visitors to their country by placing Musallah immediately in the arrival lounge and employing Muslims in trusted positions as border and immigration control etc.
Even the Tamils when they saw us helping them and Muslims in equal measure, printed articles in their newspaper about how Muslims were helping them – even though Muslim in the area had dared not to go to Tamil areas in the previous decade for fear of being killed. We employed Tamils to clean up Muslim areas, we employed Muslims to clean up Tamil areas. Its hard to envisage how these two neighbouring communities would proceed then to kill and harm one another know how Muslim came to their aid in their hour of need and did not discriminate in delivering aid in favour of just our Muslim brethren.
Do you know what happened to Sri Lankan Muslims when the Taliban blew up that big statue of the Buddha in Bamiyan? As counter reaction – which the Taliban or AQ probably did not care about – many Muslims got slaughtered by the angry Buddhist mobs and who also burned down many masaajids. Yet when a Muslim colleague of mine, who was stuck in a car with his hijab wearing wife, found their car amidst the deranged mob a Buddhist monk entered their car and navigated them safely through the mob to his house for safety.
Under those circumstances, will you be equivalent of the angry buddhist mobs and go on the rampage killing innocent ‘mushriks’ or will you do what is just and commanded by Allah and try to save the life of those innocent ‘mushriks’ so that you can get the ajr of saving all of humanity?
If you want to implement Islamic shariah in Pakistan, start by implementing Islamic shariah on your own views, thoughts and and action. Insha’Allah if you and others start doing that i.e. focus on imposing shariah upon yourself rather than try to impose it by tamil tiger minhaj of suicide bombings and carnage – the insha’Allah the goal will be reached. It will not be reached by copying a tamil tiger style rebellion and suicide bombing against the government and people.
May Allah give me and you and the Muslim Ummah tawfeeq and success to first implement shariah upon ourselves and act in ways that we don’t get oppressed and don’t oppress others and as consequence give rise to a righteous state where Allah Laws are implemented and respected.
@ Amad
“WHILE AMERICA TURNS THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN!!”??
Is America throwing acid in the faces of sweet little girls whose only crime is they want to go to school and get an education (Pakistan and Afganistan)? Is America flying planes into skycrapers (9/11)? Is America blowing up people on trains on their way to work (Madrid 7/7). Is America blowing up night clubs (Bali) Is America cutting off heads and leaving them and the corpes in the streets for children to see (Afganistan). Is America blowing up weddings (Jordan). Is America shooting SCHOOL CHILDREN in the back (Breslin)? And I can go on and on and on!
We can all agree that the last president was a catastrophe and that the country was lied into a war, but it looks more to me that its the Muslims turning the world upside down.
And one quick question: What do you mean by orthodox? Does that mean establishing an “Islamic state” in America? Is that what you mean Amad? And what do you mean by “sell out”? Does sell out mean allowing that America will not be ruled by Islamic law? Come on Amad, speak it clear, stop using all your tricky language.
See Amad, I told you this was a silly discussion. Everyone is still arguing about something they all agree about – killing cricketers who did nothing is bad, no matter who did it.
Siraaj
@ Abdur-Rahman Muhammad
Read what Paul Craig Roberts – Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration – says about your beloved USA:
http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts12052008.html
USA may not have gone around burning a few schools in Swat – but the lovely America sure has killed a few million more than all these other terrorists out there.
Does stating that make me a radical, fundamentalist?
No USA doesn’t go around burning schools – it just blows up the suspect schools and any pupils therein from the air – how much more humane!
Abdur-Rahmaan, you are the last person in the world who should be speaking about condemning violence. When are you going to condemn the violence in the African-American community? When you are going to condemn the violence and the imperialist foreign policy by the American govenment?! If you a use your flimsy logic, then African-Americans shoud shut up next time one of their own is killed by the police because their is way more Black-on-Black violence than the opposite. Someone whose walaa is totally to the kuffar should be questioned about his Iman. American started the war against Muslims and now it is reaping what is has sown.
Mezba: excellent points, people with your critical thinking and ability to reflect on its internal shortcomings are the key to defeating total failure in Pakistan. Ignore the people who would like to blame everyone but themselves for Pakistan’s failures, they are a product of colonized minds.
ARM: As a member of those who have the privilege of living in a free society, we are morally obligated to condemn shortcomings and failures when they exist here as well. You bring up a lot of terror attacks which America obviously played no role, however you completely disregard the fact that America’s sanctions and subsequent invasion of Iraq led to millions of deaths. Let’s not swing to the opposite end of the pendulum and pretend that America is some shining beacon of hope to all of the Muslim world. American manufactured planes and missiles kill innocent people daily and as Muslims and Americans we must speak out against that injustice as well.
Anyonymuslim,
You are correct. While there are problems with terrorism, corruption etc. in Pakistan, the reality is that We cannot forget the fact that the west and the United States is far from perfect. There has been almost a million muslim brothers and sisters in Iraq and Afghanistan that have died since occupation, the support of Israel, the holding of many innocent in Guantanimo, abu Gharaib ect… The list goes on and on. I think that there are two views on america in this blog. One is total love for it like brother ARM and the other is of those brothers and sisters living overseas. The United States has many great qualities but its very very very far from perfect
Amad:
You still haven’t provided me with any proof that a Jihad group was behind this.
Willing to admit you jumped the gun?
AnonyMuslim:
I have a feeling you’re the well-known Salahdeen/Jaysh/Hanbali. If so, I would advise you to learn some manners when talking to people who are your elders and have more knowledge than you (not a hard task). I’m referring specifically to brother Abu Maryam, hafidhahullah.
Asslam u alaikum wr wb
A sister’s request:
While Pakistan has fallen into degradation and has not met the purpose of its existence, is there a need to further malign it ourselves. We need to pray for it because of the basis of its foundation rather than bad mouth it all the time. There has to be a proactive approach to this issue. There are still people living in Pakistan even if they be in minority who are working for good believing in the purpose of why this land was sought after. So please whatever nationality you are, being a muslim,please pray for us and that ALLAH Make this land what it is was meant for initially. Lastly everyone here “lets come to common terms between us and you”: Killing of innocent civilians is haraam- and we condemnn whoever has done it – Muslim or otherwise. Period! And lets stop this name calling and fighting amongst ourselves.
Jazakallahu Khair Anti-Jaysh for your comments. Very insightful from someone on the ground
Not that any evidence would convince an al qaeda supporting fanatic of anything, but so far every Pakistani newspaper that is reporting on what has been discovered thus far in the investigations is saying basically the same thing: All are pointing towards suspects being picked up in “safehouses” and “guesthouses” throughout Punjab. Uzbeks, Afghans, and other foreigners being picked up for questioning. Put the constituent pieces together and any logical person will see that the dark hand behind these attacks belongs to the Pseudo-Jihadis attempting to further malign Pakistan through their twisted image of Islam. Some articles are saying the terrorists intended to be “hostage-takers,” again showing that this wasn’t a limited attack by an “intelligence” agency, but a targeted plan to highlight political greivances, namely for Pseudo-Jihadis to acheieve their dark goal of imposition of their fake jahil concept of Islamic law.
By the way, thaks to whomever attempted to insult me by comparing me to the great Islamic luminary Abdul Hakim Murad (May Allah preserve him). Thanks but I’m truly not worthy of such an honor.
Pakistan needs fast-track National Security Courts to execute these people quickly after prosecution. Further, hate speech should be banned on national security grounds. In other Pseudo-Jihadi news today in Pakistan, a masjid was attacked in Dera Ismail Khan and a 17th century pathaan poet’s mausoleum was blown up. Articles showing that all evidence recovered points to the pseudo-Jihadis and not “RAW” as conspiracy quacks allege, below:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=200935\story_5-3-2009_pg1_1
LAHORE/KARACHI: Police widened the hunt for clues in Tuesdays brazen attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore, arresting 250 suspects in province-wide raids four of which sources in the police said were prime suspects.
The four men included Muhammad Faisal, a brother of Muhammad Adil the mastermind of the attack sources privy to the probe told Daily Times, adding that they were arrested during raids in Lahore by the Crime Investigation Agency (CIA). Sources in the agency said Adil who ran sports bikes business on the Outfall Road in Islampura received a call from one of the attackers at about 9:05am. In the call intercepted by the police, the attacker asks the planner for instructions after the attack, and was told to go to a location near Islampura.
I’m a regular follower of MM from ‘back home’ and I would like to agree with Br. AsimG and others who feel that the tone of this article is not correct. And I also agree with Br. Siraaj that this discussion is not, and will not get anywhere. If the purpose is to condemn the attacks, we can all agree, but on not much else besides that. Let’s wait for the facts.
Besides that, as a Pakistani who has lived in the west, it seems to me there are some people who go overboard with nationalistic feelings. If you love living in America, so be it, if you live in Pakistan and love it, so be it. But to claim that one place is certainly the place to be, is to paint an unrealistic picture of black and white. There are problems there, and there are problems here. We just need to learn to deal with our problems wherever we live.
We are going to close the comments on this post, as I believe all sides to the story have been expressed. A few closing thoughts:
1) For those who paint a picture of stifled debate and censored comments, I think it is clear to any unbiased individuals that these folks must be on a different blog! The proof is in the pudding, RIGHT HERE, in this post and other posts, where critical comments sometimes exceed concurring comments. Of course, we will continue to moderate personal and mean-spirited remarks that fail the test of reasonable discussion. Carrying on the mantra of “MM censors everything” while seeing even these “mantra” comments come through, make the claims sound hollow and false.
2) I am glad that to see that pretty much all of us agree that attacks against civilians (Muslims or non-Muslims) are wrong and unacceptable, such as for example Bali or 9/11. Except for a couple of loony remarks here and there, I believe that most of us (at least those who commented here) are all on the same page in our stance AGAINST terrorist organizations that target civilians. We all know who these organizations are. May Allah guide their leaders to moderation and the path of mercy and compassion upon the Sunnah of the Prophet (S).
3) I am not surprised to see that we all condemn this cowardly attack. I hope the attackers were not Muslims, but if they were, then I hope the detractors will accept the problem “within”, and work towards reform of extremism. I also hope that we can temper our suspicions and accept that not every act of terrorism blamed on Muslims could have been a conspiracy. So, even if 9 out of 10 were some “black ops”, then we still have a problem for the 1 out of 10. Recognition is the first step towards the fix.
4) I appreciate all the comments from everyone who participated: AnonyMuslim, Abu Maryam, Siraaj, even Abul Hasan
and others. I hope that those who didn’t agree with my post remember that I am still their brother, who deserves the benefit of doubt about my intentions and goals. Back-biting and slandering me (by a few of the detractors) will not fix my “problem”, and will only help me by their good deeds. I think they need their good deeds, as much as I would like to have them and need them. And I hope that those who agreed with my post will continue to work with me as I don’t intend to let up on the plague of terrorism.
In closing, there is a wide middle-ground between extremism and “ultra-progressivism”. Many of us are struggling to find our place on it, which is a good sign. Let’s hope and pray that we land dead-center, upon the Sunnah of the Prophet (S).
AnonyMuslim(Dawud?), spare us your condescending attitude. That you describe shar’iah as a “fake, jahi,concept” shows us your true colors. The British toady, Abdul-Hakim Murad, isn’t a “great Islamic luminary”, but a stooge for the enemies of Islaam.