This is a guest-post submitted by Brent Graham, a native of Down Under (Australia):
When I first started to read an English translation of the Qur’an (also known as Koran) that was available in my Secondary College’s Library, Christianity was my professed religion. I can still remember today how fascinated I was with what was being discovered by this 17 year old who would openly profess allegiance to the Church of England in class, ridiculing anyone who would not follow suite.
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Not only did this book with its’ exotic cover contain the most beautiful stories of the previous Prophets that I loved to hear about in Bible class, but amazing stories I didn’t know of as well.
The biggest surprise for me came from the verses related to Jesus Christ. The Qur’an contained the incredible stories of his righteous mother, miraculous birth and even some miracles not found in the Bible such as Jesus defending his mother’s honour from the cradle.
The initial shock came when I stumbled across verses of the Qur’an stating that Jesus was not the ‘Son of God’, ‘God never begot a Son’ and that ‘Jesus was not part of a divine Trinity’. I was shell shocked – “What had I discovered?!”
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning God save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of God, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and say not “Three”. Cease! (It is) better for you! God is the only One God. Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All¬Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs. (Qur’an, 4:171)
I had discovered that what the Qur’an was saying completely contradicted the doctrine of the Trinity taught by all of the main Christian Churches in the world today.
I was now on a mission; I had my mind set to uncover what the bible had to say in defense of such allegations.
Some of things I discovered then and now are documented below starting with Jesus being the Son of God.
And when the centurion, who stood facing him, saw that he thus breathed his last, he said, “Truly this man was the Son of God!” (Revised Standard Version, Mark 15:39)
So the people in that time confessed to Jesus being the ‘Son of God’.
And they all said, “Are you the Son of God, then?” And he said to them, “You say that I am.” (Luke 22:70)
And the now infamous John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
But if we read on we will find that the term ‘Son of God’ was not just reserved for Jesus as some may claim, but also used by Jesus to describe the God fearing.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. (Matthew 5:9)
Reading through not only the New Testament but the Old Testament, we will uncover that the Biblical term for people of piety and righteousness was ‘The Children of God’.
In Islam we use the word Muttaqoon.
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish. (Luke 6:35)
Even Paul, who claimed to be divinely inspired by Jesus and was at the forefront of ascribing divinity to Jesus, wrote in his letter to the Romans the following line…
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. (Romans 8:14)
So where does this idea of Jesus being the sole ‘Son of God’ come from?
The verse that was given as the best proof for the Doctrine of Trinity has now been deleted from the Bible.
It once read:-
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
This verse known as 1 John 5:7 is now universally recognised as being a later “insertion” of the Church.
Daniel B. Wallace (PhD, Dallas Theological Seminary – is a professor of New Testament studies at Dallas Theological Seminary and a noted grammarian) states in his article ‘The Textual Problem in 1 John 5:7-8′ that: “This reading, the infamous Comma Johanneum, has been known in the English-speaking world through the King James translation. However, the evidence—both external and internal—is decidedly against its authenticity.”
Mr Wallace continues by saying that “…there is no sure evidence of this reading in any Greek manuscript until the 1500s…” and that “The Trinitarian formula (known as the Comma Johanneum) made its way into the third edition of Erasmus’ Greek NT (1522) because of pressure from the Catholic Church.
After his first edition appeared (1516), there arose such a furor over the absence of the Comma that Erasmus needed to defend himself. He argued that he did not put in the Comma because he found no Greek manuscripts that included it.” [http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1186]
Many of the recent versions of the Bible, such as The Revised Standard Version, The New Revised Standard Version, The New American Standard Bible, The New English Bible, and The Phillips Modern English Bible do not contain this verse, some instead include it as a footnote citing it as a later edition.
So where did the Trinity come from?
The New Encyclopedia Britannica states, “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema (The Judaic profession of Monotheism) in the Old Testament: “Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” (Deuteronomy 6:4). The earliest Christians, however, had to cope with the implications of the coming of Jesus Christ and of the presumed presence and power of God among them…” (The New Encyclopedia Britannica Volume II, 15th Edition 2002, p 928)
So it was not Jesus or his followers that taught the doctrine of Trinity but people who came after them?!
And if that is not troublesome enough, they added their fictitious beliefs to the religious text now titled the Bible?!
The Bible warns against such actions:-
I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19)
You’re possibly wondering now if this is addition also?
God Almighty gives a stern warning in the Qur’an:-
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, “This is from God,” to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby. (Qur’an, 2:79)
So if Jesus is not the Son of God, then who is he?
Both the Bible and the Qur’an will confirm that he was a Prophet and Messenger who called to the oneness of God, as did the Prophets and Messenger who preceded him.
And demons also came out of many, crying, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.
And when it was day he departed and went into a lonely place. And the people sought him and came to him, and would have kept him from leaving them;
But he said to them, “I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other cities also; for I was sent for this purpose.”
And he was preaching in the synagogues of Judea. (Luke 4:41-44)
We noted earlier in Mark 15:39 how the Centurion who claimed to witness Jesus’ death on the cross exclaimed that “Truly this man was the Son of God!” but during his life, it was said by the people of Jerusalem that he was the Prophet of Nazareth.
And when he entered Jerusalem, all the city was stirred, saying, “Who is this?”
And the crowds said, “This is the prophet Jesus from Nazareth of Galilee.” (Matthew 21:10-11)
Jesus Christ himself during his days of preaching taught the people that he was not speaking on his own accord, that what he was teaching the people was from the Creator of the Heavens and the earth, in the form of prophecies.
So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me; if any man’s will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
He who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. Did not Moses give you the law? Yet none of you keeps the law. Why do you seek to kill me?” (John 7:16-19)
And a similar statement in the Qur’an:-
And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of God’s sovereignty), and We supported him with the holy Spirit (The Angel Gabriel). Is it that whenever there came to you a Messenger with what you yourselves desired not, you grew arrogant? Some, you disbelieved and some, you killed. (Qur’an, 2:87)
Being passionate about the honour and life of Jesus Christ the son of Mary is not a bad thing; it is noble and sought after. Both the Bible and the Qur’an will testify that he lead an admirable Prophetic life, an example we all can love and desire to follow.
But what I have discovered is that to show our love for someone is not by making up stories, elevating their status, nor is it to give them attributes belonging to others, especially God, Almighty.
No one can argue that getting caught up in exaggerated veneration or the false worship of any individual is an acceptable display of ones love. Showing love for someone is to speak the reality about him or her and teach their glorious stories in the truest of fashion, something I now hope to do with more vigour no longer as a Christian, but as a Muslim.
This is what I discovered at such a young age and now share with you. May God bless all of you with the best of knowledge and faith!
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Cookies
November 15, 2008 at 10:26 AM
Incredible story!! Mashallah!
ilmsummitee
November 15, 2008 at 11:04 AM
I agree, amazing story….Thanks alot for sharing brother, BarakAllahu feek.
You know the odd thing yesterday was that I was reviewing Surat Ma’edah (Chapt 4), and I pondered about the verses of Prophet Isa (alayhi salam), SubhanAllah :) and today I come across this article.
Sharif
November 15, 2008 at 2:50 PM
It’s really amazing how it even says this (explicitly) in Encyclopedia Britannica. I recall reading from one edition, under the entry “Paul”, it even stated that the doctrines taught by Paul, which have become the Church Christianity that most Christians profess today, were radically different than the actual doctrines taught by Jesus Christ.
Nuruddeen Lewis
November 15, 2008 at 4:18 PM
Wow, masha’Allah! I really enjoyed this article. It brings back memories of my own journey to Islam. May Allah guide us all on the path that is straight and leading to paradise.
OsmanK
November 15, 2008 at 5:20 PM
DUGG! I think this article is very beneficial and I always like reading the Muslim perspective on Jesus. I’m sure Christians will have a different opinion of this article and that’s fair since they view Jesus differently.
Jazakallah brother.
Amad
November 15, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Dugg
leigh
November 16, 2008 at 4:59 AM
Good evening: here are a few comments for you to delve into. Many more available. Please respond in detail.Also In the Quran Allah refers to Jesus as the Messiah but Allah provides no understanding of its meaning or application.
Now Jesus spoke and acted as one different from prophets:
§ You can only know God the Father if you know me -ie it is Jesus reveals the mind/knowledge of God ((Matt11: 27) See Matt 5 and 6 for aspects of the true mind of God aside form God not changing his mind(See malachi cf Allahs essential nature of chnaging his mind)
§ I and God are of the same essence (Father and I are one- John 10:30;
§ I have food (i.e. spiritual) that you don’t know of (John 4:32)
§ God’s son (John 10; 36-38)
§ Christ the Blessed One (Matt 14:61-62)
§ Immediately after this Jesus assumed the identity of the Son of Man from Dan 7:13-14)
§ Referred to his unique relationship with God (My Father- John 10:17: Abba – for Judaism unheard of manner of addressing God: revealing secrets that God had hidden :)
§ Spoke on his own authority not “says God”, but “I say to you” (Mk 1:27/Matt 5)
§ Miracles of a volume and scope (healings/casting out evil spirits/raising the dead/controlling nature by his own power- unmatched by any Biblical prophet. As you will know Mohammad specifically lamented he could not perform miracles so the Jews ans Christians would not accept he was a prophet(Incidentally I have written a note about Mohammad being as similar to Peter the disciple of Jesus in terms of Peter and Mohammad’s human limitations. For examples of Jesus’ miracles see Matt chs 8,9,12,14,15; Mark ch 5;Luke chs 5,7, 8,17,22) (see Luke 4:16-21 for the passage from Isaiah 61 read by Jesus at the beginning of his ministry)The reference in the Quran to Jesus making clay birds is an imaginary folktale plagirsied by the Quran’s compilers from the second century “Gospel” of the Infancy of Jesus Christ.
§ Jesus wisdom personified: greater than the wisest man who ever lived, Solomon, Matt 12:42). Note John the Baptist said he was not fit to tie Jesus’ sandals! (John 1:26)
§ Jesus greater than Abraham and existed before Abraham (John 8:56-59). Allah in the Quran claims his religion is the religion of Abraham but if Jesus is greater than Abraham then….
§ See John’s other critical testimony of Jesus as saviour: John 1:29; regarding the ram that God provided for Abraham in place of his son- see Genesis 22:13-14.
Sadaf
November 16, 2008 at 6:46 AM
Well, Leigh, all the points you have brought forth further mark the confusing grey areas between your concept of “Three”: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
You claim that Jesus [علیہ السلام] performed miracles — whereas if he is “son of God” as you say, he should not be compared to Muhammad [صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم] at all in the first place, who was a human being; who could not perform miracles unless Allah so willed (and he did not “lament” about this; he just spoke the bare fact — of his being a servant of Allah). So why are you jumping between proving that Jesus was “God” and still, also comparing him to the human Prophets (i.e claiming of his existing before Abraham, performing miracles no other prophet could, being extremely wise, speaking of his own authority and not as a Messenger of God etc.)
You should make up your mind — was Jesus a son of God (and hence incomparable to any human being, because, there never should be a need to compare God to any of His creation), or was he a Messenger above the others?
talibilm
November 16, 2008 at 7:35 PM
leigh,
please reflect on the fact that ‘son of God’ is not exclusively used for Jesus(peace be upon him)
he is called the son of man aswell about 88 times in the new testament
If he was God why did he say that he does not speak of his own accord btu rather the One who sent him?
If he was God or Son of God then why was he crying Elli Elli lama sabachtani on the cross??
Why did he forget fig trees dont bear figs out of season?
If he was God why did a ‘part’ of God die? Why was “God-according to your definition) so helpless that he became crucified, tortured and was left at the mercy of Jews tearing up his flesh on the cross?
He was rather a Prophet of Nazreth who was sent by The One Who is The Creator Most High to uphold the law of Moses and continue the Prophetic legacy. As human being, he suffered. As a human being, he felt hunger. As a human being he was rejected by the ignorant.
Lastly, why did “God-according to your definition) decide to send Jesus to die for everyone a long time after adam? why leave Adam out (who was created from neither a father NOR a mother) ?
The limitations of this dialogue are the fact that it will be hard to look at each others comments objectively. I have tried my best to do so and came up with these questions.
May The Creator Most High in whose hands our souls are before and after we die forgive our shortcomings and make us firm upon that path which is most beloved to Him. Ameen.
kind regards
Sharif
November 16, 2008 at 10:36 PM
If you would really like a thorough analysis of the claims of Christianity from the Judeo-Christian sources themselves, as well as an analysis of Islam’s claims concerning God and prophethood, I would highly recommend The First and Final Commandment by Dr. Laurence Brown. You should also visit his website at http://www.leveltruth.com.
Ali
November 16, 2008 at 10:45 PM
mashaAllah… nice article
Ali123
November 18, 2008 at 12:15 AM
To leigh,
Just think clearly for a moment. How can you use the Bible as the basis for your arguments when it has been established that it was repeatedly altered by the hands of men? It’s just like fabricating evidence and then using that evidence in court? The very authenticity of your proofs are in question. That’s the point. You need to unlock yourself from the Bible and think for yourself. No matter what the Bible says, it is largely the product of men and has constantly been meddled with. Just ask yourself why are there so many versions? Some versions are completely missing text that others contain. Does that sound like revelation to you? Even the cornerstone of the Trinity doctrine (John 3:16) has been declared a Christian invention. There is only one version of the Quran because it is God’s final revelation and He has protected it. Open your heart to the truth.
God is different from His creation. Jesus (peace be upon him) is part of God’s creation and is not to be worshiped. Worship is reserved for God only. Worshiping God’s creation instead of God is a crime that He will never forgive unless one repents from it before death by becoming a true monotheist and follower of all the prophets…a Muslim.
Ali
Blogger
November 18, 2008 at 7:39 AM
as-salaamu’alaikum
Jazaakumullaahu khayran!
Brian
November 18, 2008 at 1:02 PM
ali123: I’ve often wondered about the Christian Scriptures. Jesus is a great prophet and honoured among Muslims. Doesn’t it make sense to try to discover as much about him as we can? The New Testament seems to be the most detailed examination of his life, offering many more details, and in a much more organized fashion than anything found in the Quran.
Surely there should be considerable investment in scholarship done by Muslims to attempt to capture the truth about Jesus, not from a document that came 600 years later, but from document written shortly after Jesus [didn’t] die.
Corrupted text are only known as corrupted if they can be compared with an accurate text. Let’s discover or recreate the accurate text and examine that, and see what it says about Jesus.
The common comments that Muslims make about the Christian Scriptures is simple excuse to avoid having to acknowledge the differing claims between the them and the Quran.
Did Jesus die on the cross, or was another person put in his place? The Scriptures say Jesus died. The Quran says he didn’t.
There’s a basic incompatibility. They can’t both be right. So the Muslim answer is to benefit the Quran by dissing the Scriptures. Is that fair, or reasonable? And if so, where’s the evidence that the Scriptures have been tampered with.
I’ve wondered why there is no serious attempt to look at alternative stories of who Jesus is? How is it that Christians can live with multiple versions in the bible in English, Spanish, Turkish, French, etc, and in over 400 different languages and slight ambiguity within the texts? How do the Christians cope? Are the Scriptures true? and what do they say about Jesus Character?
fais
November 18, 2008 at 1:54 PM
once upon a time there was this city filled with bad people, who did bad things and always got away with everything bad that they always did. Always except this one time when they did get caught, and the entire city was arrested! Soon it was time for them to appear in court and they stood before the judge to plead their case. All the bad people of this city stood before the judge and claimed “oh just judge, we know we are bad people and we have done bad things, but please! do not punish us let us go! because there is one among us in our city who has never done anything bad in his whole life. infact, he has always told us to stay away from bad things, but we never listened, so please punish this man instead!!!” And so, upon hearing this the judge had this goodly man quite immediately arrested and and put infront of a firing squad and given a gruesome penalty of death. The bad bad people were let go in return, and the bad people returned to their bad ways. THE END! :D
oh, did I mention the good man was the son of the judge?
Timothy Vucurevich
November 19, 2008 at 12:01 AM
Being an outsider I respect all of your opinoins and most importantly all your religions. Some of you have struck upon one interesting point of the Christian faith. How can Jesus Christ be both man and God? It apears to be a contradiction does it not? But it isn’t, If one man who was perfect died, he would be removing one sin in the sight of God. He would need to be infinite in order to remove the sins of all men. Which is why Jesus Christ is Infinate man as well as Infinate God.
The trinity is even more confusing. We as rational men cannot comprehend three seperate ‘personalities’ (for the lack of a better word) being one being. But does this make God incapeable of something? And if he is incapable of one thing how can he be God?
I have recently had the privilege to research Islam for a term paper in a World Religions corse I am currently taking. Though I am far from understanding Islam, my respect for Islam, the Prophet Muhammad, and the Qur’an are very high. Any thing I have said that is offensive, please forgive me because I do not wish to offend anyone.
But I must say some of the versus used in the artical were either not translated right or the translation used was incorrect. This greatly changed the meaning of the verses.
Mathew 3:17 (New King James) “And suddenly a voice came from Heaven saying ‘This is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased’ ” I encourage reading the context around the verse to further the understanding of the verse. If it was not His son, then woud God be lying? If God is lying then how can He be God?
You say the the Bible has been changed by men. That is to long for me to write here unfortunately, but I encourage you to really research that statement. You may be surprised to find that it is not so much different than the text we now have.
I say all of this not to convert you, but that when discussions like this come up, you may have a better understanding and not debate blindly.
I thank anyone who has read this far and once again apologize if anything I have said offends you. I will gladly accept feedback.
Bilal Saeed
November 20, 2008 at 2:26 PM
One may ask, if both muslims and christians love and respect Jesus (pbuh), where exactly is the parting of ways? The major, difference between Islam and Christainity is the Christians insistence on the supposed divinity of Christ. A study of the christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, “I am God” or where he says, “worship me”. In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. Consider the following statements in the Bible, attributed to Jesus Christ (Pbuh):
“My Father is Greater than I” (John 14:28)
“My Father is greater than all (John 10:29)
“…I cast out devils by the spirit of God….” (Matthew 12:28)
“…with the finger of God cast out devils…” (Luke 11:20)
“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father, which hath sent me”.
The mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) he came to fulfill the Law:
Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets; I am notcome to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
(The Bible, Mathew 5: 17-20)
God sent Jesus (pbuh):
The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus mission in the following verses:
and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Fathers which has sent me.
(The Bible, John 14:24)
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent.
(The Bible,John 17:3)
Jesus refuted even a remote suggestion of his divinity. Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God; but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.The above statements from the Bible refute the Christian dogma of divinity of Jesus and of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pubh).Jesus (pbuh) exhorts keeping the commandments as the means to achieve salvation.
( The Bible, Mathew 5: 17-20)
Jesus (pbuh) of Nazareth a man approved of God:
The following statement from the Bible supports the Islamic belief that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet of God.Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, A man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.
The First Commandment is that God is One:
The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of thescribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first command ment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said, namely:
Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adna Ikhat.
This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.
(Mark 12:29)
Misquoting Jesus
December 22, 2008 at 10:26 PM
Leigh, Brian, and Timothy please watch this informative lecture by Bart Ehrman Professor or Religious Studies of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill…http://www.thedeenshow.com/show.php?action=detail&id=395
This lecture is given by a serious Christian scholar; you would be surprised to see what his research indicates
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 1, 2009 at 3:31 PM
PROOF OF THE DIVINITY OF JESUS From the Koran and the Bible
God began by choosing a chaste woman, Mary (Maryam). To qualify her, He necessarily exalted her in advance ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION, for birth is the women’s GREATEST pride and, yet Mary would EXTRA-ORDINARILY give the birth that is the GREATEST of all times. See Luke 1:28, 30:34, 41-44, 48-49, and 54-55. Also says Qur’an 3:42, “….O Mary! Allah has CHOSEN thee, and PURIFIED thee, and PREFERRED thee ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION”.
After that, God settled His soul (Ruh) inside His word (Kalimat) which he had put in the womb of Mary, who had been spiritually qualified as we have seen earlier. That was how Mary conceived Jesus. That was to enable the divine attribute have human features through her for the humans to understand Him better (Hence only Jesus is Biblicaly and Qur’anically declared as GOD’s WORD and GOD’s RUH (Spirit): John 1:1, 14:8:23, Phl. 2:5-8; and the Qur’an 4:171, 2:252 etc. (By implication, Jesus’ flesh is not actually biological but God’s Word; similarly, his life is not actually human’s but from God’s own as we will see more later).
Therefore, even after his humanly birth, Jesus was declared as much superior to angels and, in fact, God said, “Let ALL God’s angels WORSHIP him (Jesus)” (Heb. 1:6; 1Pet. 3:22; Mat. 4:11), as was Adam, of course, in Qur’an 2:30-34.
Thus, apparently, Jesus was a human, the rationality and aim of his humanized birth. See Rom. 8:3-6; Heb. 2:16-18. Also, says Allah according to Qur’an 6:9, “Had We appointed an ANGEL our messenger, We ASSUREDLY had made him LIKE A MAN SO THAT HE MIGHT SPEAK TO (associate with) MEN….”
Muslims often cite John 5:30-31; Mark 13:32-33 and John 1428 etc as disproofs of Christ’s divinity. But, logically, these verses, rather than disprove Jesus’ divinity, expressed the anticipated and expected demonstrations of the character that was Jesus-in-exemplary-typical-human-nature and , therefore , in accordance with God’s programme as stated in the Qur’an 6:9 and:-
(1) Phil. 2:6, “Who (Jesus) being in very nature God, did NOT consider equality with God something to grasp, 7 But made himself NOTHING, taking the very nature of a SERVANT, being made in human likeness 8, and found in appearance as a MAN, he HUMBLED himself and became OBEDIENT to the death, even death in the cross”
(2) Heb. 2:16, “For surely it is NOT ANGELS that he (Jesus) helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 FOR THIS REASON HE (GOD) HAD TO MAKE HIM (JESUS) LIKE HIS BROTHERS IN EVERY WAY in order that……” (Compare Qur’an 6:9)
(3) Rom. 8:3, “(Jesus)….in the LIKENESS OF A SINFUL MAN……….”
So, in the light of these verses, it should be clear that Jesus’ humanized acts did not mean that he was actually a human being (John 8:23) but were the divinely designs that were to make Jesus not unnecessarily scare the humans but, rather be their SOURCE OF INSPIRATIONS.
In other words, if Jesus were to act God-the-father again even when haven purposely transformed into a man, the transformation would logically be nonsense.
The Holy Bible reveals relationship between Adam and Jesus thus, “The FIRST Adam became a LIVING SOUL, the LAST Adam (Jesus) a QUICKENING SPIRIT”, 1 Cor. 15:45. Therefore, to understand the nature of Jesus more, we must go back to the Adam’s case.
Thus, when God breathed life into Adam (Qur’an 38:73-78 and Gen. 2:7), he (God) declared him His (God’s) own IMAGE/LIKENESS (Gen. 2:7) or His VICEROY (Qur’an 2:30). Also, according to Qur’an 28:37-38, 15:39-44; 17:61-62; 7:11-13 and 2:34, Allah instructed ALL the angels to WORSHIP Adam on the ground that He (Allah) had breathed something of His SpIRIT into Adam for a soul (see Heb. 1:2-6, for the same instruction in respect of Jesus). In fact, according to these Qur’anic verses, Satan’s curse and demotion are God’s reaction to his (Satan’s) refusal to prostrate himself before Adam.
Therefore, Biblically and Qur’anically Adam, whose flesh was made from just the sand (Gen. 2:7, Qur’an 28:72), was notwithstanding such GLORIOUS initially. And, logically, the glorious qualification came from what God breathed in him.
However, Adam did not pass Satanic test but sinned (that shows some relative weakness in him), thereby lost his INITIAL STATUS and therefore was ordered out of MOST EXALTED DWELLING, the Garden of Eden(Qur’an 7:19-24, Gen. 3:1-24). But Jesus passed all the Satanic tests (Mt.4:1-11, Heb. 4:15; Qur’an 19:19), which logically implies comparative superiority in him.
Therefore, the fact that SOIL is the comparative parent of Adam, who, again, could not pass Satanic test, sinned and was demoted; and Mary, the SUPERIOR among all women, is the comparative parent of Jesus, who, again, passed all the Satanic tests, did not sin and therefore was NEVER demoted, given that both Adam and Jesus got their souls unbiologically from God directly; it follows that whatever type of soul God gave Adam was originally INFERIOR to the one He gave Jesus. Thus Jesus would still have been superior to Adam even if he (Adam) had been able to defend his INITIAL STATUS, (and thus Jesus was very superior to the demoted Adam (and, by the way, EXTREMELY superior to Adam’s descendants including MUHAMMAD, whom Allah found STRAY: Qur’an 12:3, 93:6-8).
So if initially Adam, made from soil, was inter-alia, QUALIFIED to be God’s IMAGE/LIKENESS (Biblically) or GOd’s VICEROY and WORTHY OF A WORSHIP BY THE ANGELS OF GOD (Qur’anically), all because his soul was God-breathed, then Jesus, who has much greater of these qualifications and miraculousness (Bible, Qur’an 5:113), is logically divine.
Thus to Jesus’ divinity God did order the angels to worship; indeed, only divinity can be worshiped (Mt. 4:8-10; Qur’an 16:36; Heb. 1:2-6).
That was why when Jesus was asked to disclose God he said, “Have I been with you so long and yet you do not know me…? He who has seen me has seen the Father (God); how can you say, ‘show us the Father?..I do not speak on my (the human) authority, but the Father who DWELLS IN ME DOES HIS WORKS”, John 14:8-10.
That is why Jesus was Biblically likened to (or understood to be) The Great Spirit Priest, Melchizedek who (being a spirit), has no biological father, mother, genealogy and dates of birth and death, but remains an eternal priest; Heb. 7:1-3, (i.e. the genealogy and date of birth of the ever living Jesus were but symbolic as earlier seen).
And, that is why when Jesus accomplished his mission on the Earth naturally, he went back to where he came from, Qur’an 4:158, “God has raised him up unto HIMSELF”. See also John 6:28, 62, and Mk. 16:19. John 8:23.
Yes! Jesus is, according to both the Bible and the Qur’an, back to his origin, God.
This brings us to the issue of TRINITY. However, I will only discuss the aspect of Trinity that is relevant to the question of the Divinity of Christ. Later I will explain TRINITY in detail because now I have a pending work.
The TRINITY
The term ‘Trinity’ is not of Biblical origin but the concept is. Thus, as any Biblically foreign word, it is not necessary to employ it in particular in whatever situation. However, the word ‘Trinity’ is relevantly expressive, thus it was employed as a term by some Bible interpreters just because it was the best word that simply expressed the ONENESS of the Almighty God, His soul in a born human body, and His soul when , or as, not inside a body. Thus:
1. God-the-FATHER, means the ALMIGHTY God.
(Deut.32:6; Mt.5:48,6:9-14; 1Cor.8:4-6)
2.God-the-SON, means the SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God inside His (GOD’S) WORD, which was physically born as a human body. (Col. 1:15, 19; John 1:1, 14-18, 17:5; Phil. 2:5-7; Mt. 1:18; Isa. 9:6; John 14:10; Pls. 82:6)
3. God-the-HOLY-SPIRIT, means just SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God, i.e. when, or as, not inside any bodily form. (John 4:24; MK. 3:28-29; Job 33:4; Gen.. 1:2; Pls. 139:7-12; Hab 3:3; 2Cor. 3:17-18). .
Thank you
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 1, 2009 at 3:36 PM
TRINITY: Islam initially recognized three Arabian Gods.
The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was born in a pagan community that believed in three Gods: Al-lat, Manat, and Uzza. Prophet Muhammad and, therefore, Islam initially declared it recognition of the deityship of these pagan Gods (or Goddess) via a supposed Allah’s revelation to Muhammad that, according to ‘hoarded’ Hadith, went thus:
Qur’an 53:13, “And he (Muhammad) saw him (angel Gabriel) yet
Another time.
14. By the lote-tree at the furthest boundary.
15. Near unto which is the Garden of Abode.
16. When that which covers the tree does cover it.
17. The sight turned not aside, nor did it extend beyond the
Limit.
18. Indeed he saw some of the greater signs of his Lord
19. Have ye seen al-lat and Uzza?
20. And Manat the third one besides?
* These are the Exalted Gharaniq (Damsels)
* And verily their intercession (with Allah) is to be hoped
For”
When the pagan Arabs heard such a Qur’anic endorsement of their deities, they massively converted to Islam. But that the story of their conversion was so exaggerated that the Muslim refugees confidently returned home from Abyssinia (Ethiopia).
The returnee refugees and Muhammad himself were disappointed to discover that the story of the massive conversion was largely a hoax. The angry Muhammad then withdrew his recognition of the deityship of the Three Goddesses and blamed Satan for making him include in the recitation false words, “ *These are the Exalted Gharaniq. *And their intercession (with Allah) is to be hoped for.
Thus Muhammad expunged these “Satanic Verses” (as they are now called by Muslim scholars) and replaced them with a supposed reaction from Allah:
21.” What! For you the *male sex, and for Him (Allah) the
Female?
22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
23. These are nothing but names which ye have devised, ye
And your fathers……”
(*Allah supposedly rejected the pagans’ recognition of Him, at this stage, as being the father of the three goddesses) See Hadith al-Gharaniq al-Ula gorren from al-Waqidi, ibn Hantab, Abu Jaafar Ibn at-Tabari etc for details.
I know many Muslim readers would dismiss this as lies because must of these sensitive issues are hidden away from them. But whoever cares to do research on this or ask renowned Islamic scholars will be shocked to discover that the “Satanic Verses” scandal is a historical fact.
In fact , the nature of the early chapters of the Qur’an tends to confirm the historicity of the ‘Satanic Verses’ scandal for, as Encyclopedia Britanica puts it 15 page 342 puts it, “ (In the Qur’an) strangely enough, there is NO REFERENCE TO THE ONENESS OF GOD (The premier Islamic doctrine now) in these early chapters. According to one tradition, on one occasion Mohammed even acknowledged the relative authorities of three goddesses: Al-lat, Manat and Uzza, but later on abolished the passage in which the reference occurred” said the Encyclopedia
Thus Islam’s belated attacks on Christianity with respect to the TRINITY is just a cover-up to this scandal of an attempt to ‘Trinitinize’ the three pagan Arab goddesses which (the attempt) failed.
Christian TRINITY does not imply three Gods at all. It is a logical and scientific phenomenon that expresses the three major ways that personifies Himself.
The greatest Christian Law is the perfect belief in the oneness of God (Mk. 12:28-32; 1 Cor. 8:3-6; Jms. 2:18-21). Then Biblically what is Trinity?
The HOLY TRINITY
Like I said earlier, the term ‘Trinity’ is not of Biblical origin but the concept is. Thus, as any Biblically foreign word, it is not necessary to employ it in particular in whatever situation. However, the word ‘Trinity’ is relevantly expressive, thus it was employed as a term by some Bible interpreters just because it was the best word that simply expressed the ONENESS of the Almighty God, His soul in a born human body, and His soul when , or as, not inside a body. Thus:
1. God-the-FATHER, means the ALMIGHTY God.
(Deut.32:6; Mt.5:48,6:9-14; 1Cor.8:4-6)
2. God-the-SON, means the SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God inside His (GOD’S) WORD, which was physically born as a human body. (Col. 1:15, 19; John 1:1, 14-18, 17:5; Phil. 2:5-7; Mt. 1:18; Isa. 9:6; John 14:10; Pls. 82:6)
3. God-the-HOLY-SPIRIT, means just SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God, i.e. when, or as, not inside any bodily form. (John 4:24; MK. 3:28-29; Job 33:4; Gen. 1:2; Pls. 139:7-12; Hab 3:3; 2Cor. 3:17-18).
Since in the Old Testament time God demonstrated His kind of ‘spirito- allotropy’: (Let US, OUR image, OUR likeness, one of US: Gen. 1:26, 3:22, Jer. 23:23), and also Qur’an 2:1, 6:9 ete.
In fact not only Muslims –especially my friends Kabiru Inuwa and Muhammad Kabir Muhammad etc, Jehovah Witness and the Jews too should realize that the concept of “God-The-Son” scripturally predated the times of Jesus Christ (Pls. 82:6; John 10:34-38); likewise “God-The-Father” (Deut. 32:6); and “God-the-Holy-Spirit” (Job 32:4, Pls 139:7-12).
It is, therefore simplistic to think that Christian Trinitarian concept originated from paganism just because the pagans had ‘similar’ doctrine before the word ‘Trinity’ was employed by some Bible interpreters. Pagan ‘Trinity’ differs from the Christian own in the sense that it has always referred to three entities whereas that of Christian referred to only one entity who acted in three ways.
Science also suggests the possibility of the Christian TRINITY. Thus: some matters can exist in many physically different capacities and chemically remain their exact selves nevertheless. See ALLOTROPY. Allotropy is the EXISTENCE OF AN ELEMENT IN MANY PHYSICALLY DIFFERENT CAPACITIES AND CHEMICALLY REMAINS IT EXACT SELF, just as Trinity is the EXISTENSE OF THE GOD IN THREE PHYSICALLY DIFFERENT CAPACITIES BUT SPIRITUALLY REMAINS HIS EXACT SELF. Of course, if matter can exhibit such a rare capacity as the allotropy, how much more can the creator himself do? Hence the exceptional ‘allotropy’, the Trinity.
Therefore, those who think the TRINITY necessarily implies three Gods simply because 1+1+1=3 and not 1 are just simpletons, as science has once again, shown. You know, Christianity is a religion that makes you to think more about the complexity of life, reality, relativity, time and space etc.
Abdullah Al-Habsyi
January 1, 2009 at 5:34 PM
To say Jesus is Divine and part of God, who controlled the heavens and earth when Jesus “died” for 3 days & 3 nights ? God DIED for my SIN? NO thanx..
How can I associate the Creator with His Creation ? NO ! ~
Allah is One,Holy and Eternal .Allahu Akbar..
Bilal Saeed
January 2, 2009 at 10:39 AM
In response to Nur el Masih Ben Haq :
1. JESUS (PBUH) “IS A WORD FROM ALLAH” NOT “THE WORD OF ALLAH”
The Qur’an mentions in Surah Ali ‘Imran Chapter 3 verse 45
“Behold! The angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus. The son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those Nearest to Allah.
[Al-Qur’an 3:45]
Jesus (pbuh) is referred in the Qur’an as a word from Allah and not as ‘the word of Allah’.
“A word” of Allah means a message of Allah. If a person is referred to as “a word” from Allah, it means that he is a Messenger or a Prophet of Allah.
2. THE TITLE OF A PROPHET (PBUH) DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT EXCLUSIVELY BELONGS TO THAT PROPHET (PBUH)
Different titles are given to different prophets (pbut). Whenever a title is given to a prophet (pbuh), it does not necessarily mean that the other prophets do not have the same characteristic or quality. For e.g. Prophet Abraham (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Khaleelullah, a friend of Allah. This does not indicate that all the other Prophets (pbuh) were not the friends of Allah. Prophet Moses (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Kaleemullah, indicating that God spoke to him. This does not mean that God did not speak to others. Similarly when Jesus (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah, “a word from Allah”, it does not mean that the other Prophets were not “the word,” of Allah.
3. JOHN THE BAPTIST (PBUH) IS ALSO CALLED “A WORD” OF ALLAH
Yahya (pbuh) i.e. John the Baptist (pbuh) is also referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah i.e. a word of Allah in Surah Ali ‘Imran, Chapter 3, verses 38-39
“There did Zakariya Pray to his Lord, saying: “O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer!
While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: “Allah doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a Prophet – of the (goodly) company of the righteous.”
[Al-Qur’an 3:39]
4. JESUS (PBUH) REFERRED AS RUHULLAH – A SPIRIT OF ALLAH
Jesus (pbuh) also never referred to as Ruhullah “a spirit of Allah” but as a spirit from Allah in Surah Nisa Chapter 4 verse 171
“O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Jesus Christ the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.”
[Al-Qur’an 4:171]
5. SPIRIT OF ALLAH IS BREATHED IN EVERY HUMAN BEING
A spirit from Allah does not indicate that Jesus (pbuh) is God. The Qur’an mentions in several places that Allah breathed into the human beings “His Spirit” in Surah Al-Hijr, chapter 15 verse 29 in Surah Sajdah, chapter 32 verse 9
Surah Al Hijr Chapter 15 verse 29
“When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him.”
[Al-Qur’an 15:29]
Surah Sajdah Chapter 32 verse 9
“But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!”
[Al-Qur’an 32:9]
Bilal Saeed
January 2, 2009 at 10:46 AM
In reply to a similar allegation put forward by the pagans of Makkah, that the prophet (pbuh) received the revelations from Satan, the following verses were revealed:
Surah Waqiah, chapter 56 verses 77-80
“That this is indeed
A Qur’an most honourable,
In a Book well-guarded,
Which none shall touch
But those who are clean:
A Revelation from the Lord
Of the Worlds.”
Kitabim Maknoon means a book well guarded or a protected book, referring to Lauh-e-Mahfooz in the heaven, which none shall touch except the Mutahhareen. i.e. those who do not have any uncleanliness or impurity or evil like sin. This refers to the angels. The satan is absolutely prohobited.
Thus since it is impossible for satan to come anywhere close to it or touch it, the question of him writing the verses of the Glorious Qur’an does not arise.
It is further mentioned in Surah Shura, chapter 26 verse 210-212
“No evil ones have brought
Down this (Revelation):
It would neither suit them
Nor would they be able (To produce it).
Indeed they have been removed
Far from even (a chance of)
Hearing it.”
Many people have a wrong concept of satan. They think that satan can probably do everything, except a couple of things that God can do. According to them, satan is slightly below God in power. Since the people do not want to accept that the Qur’an is a miraculous revelation, they say that it is satan’s handiwork.
1.
If satan would have written the Qur’an, he would not have mentioned in the same Qur’an in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse no. 98
“When thou does read
The Qur’an, seek Allah’s protection from Satan the Rejected One.”
Is this how you feel satan would write a book? Does he tell you; “Before you read my book ask God to save you from me?”
2.
There are several verses in the Qur’an which will give enough evidence that satan is not the author of the Qur’an.
In Surah Al Aaraf chapter 7 verse 200
“If a suggestion from Satan assail your (mind),
seek refuge with Allah; for He hears and knows
(all things).
Why would satan tell his followers, that whenever he gives any suggestions to them, they should seek refuge in Allah (swt) to whom he is an avowed enemy.
3.
In Surah Baqarah, chapter 2 verse 168
“O ye people!
Eat of what is on earth, lawful and good;
and do not follow the footsteps of the Evil one,
For he is to you an avowed enemy.”
4.
In Surah Yasin, chapter 36 verse 60
“Did I not enjoin on you,
O ye children of Adam,
that ye should not worship Satan;
for that he was to you an enemy avowed?”
Satan is intelligent, no wonder that he can put this idea into the minds of people that he himself wrote the Qur’an. Compared to Almighty God, Satan is insignificant, and Allah (swt) is far more intelligent. He knows satan’s evil intentions and hence no wonder that He has given the reader of the Qur’an several proofs to show that Qur’an is God’s word, and not satan’s word.
The Bible mentions in the Gospel of Mark, chapter 3, verses 24-26
“And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that
kingdom cannot stand.”
“And if a house be divided against itself,
that house cannot stand.”
“And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.”
Bilal Saeed
January 2, 2009 at 10:47 AM
One of the most common myths about the Qur’an, is that Usman (r.a.), the third Caliph of Islam authenticated and compiled one Qur’an, from a large set of mutually contradicting copies. The Qur’an, revered as the Word of Allah (swt) by Muslims the world over, is the same Qur’an as the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. We will examine the roots of the myth which says that Usman (r.a.) had the Qur’an authenticated.
1. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself supervised and authenticated the written texts of the Qur’an
Whenever the Prophet received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (R.A. – Radhi Allahu Taala Anhu) – May Allah be pleased with him who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an Ummi who could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur’an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur’an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (pbuh).
2. Order and sequence of Qur’an divinely inspired
The complete Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years portion by portion, as and when it was required. The Qur’an was not compiled by the Prophet in the chronological order of revelation. The order and sequence of the Qur’an too was Divinely inspired and was instructed to the Prophet by Allah (swt) through archangel Jibraeel. Whenever a revelation was conveyed to his companions, the Prophet would also mention in which surah (chapter) and after which ayat (verse) this new revelation should fit.
Every Ramadhaan all the portions of the Qur’an that had been revealed, including the order of the verses, were revised and reconfirmed by the Prophet with archangel Jibraeel. During the last Ramadhaan, before the demise of the Prophet, the Qur’an was rechecked and reconfirmed twice.
It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur’an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions.
3. Qur’an copied on one common material
The complete Qur’an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (pbuh). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (r.a.), the first caliph of Islam ordered that the Qur’an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.
4. Usman (r.a.) made copies of the Qur’an from the original manuscript
Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur’an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes. All the verses revealed to the Prophet may not have been heard personally by all the Companions. There were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur’an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur’an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.).
Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims.
There were other personal collections of the portions of the Qur’an that people had with them. These might have been incomplete and with mistakes. Usman (r.a.) only appealed to the people to destroy all these copies which did not match the original manuscript of the Qur’an in order to preserve the original text of the Qur’an. Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.
5. Diacritical marks were added for non-Arabs
The original manuscript of the Qur’an does not have the signs indicating the vowels in Arabic script. These vowels are known as tashkil, zabar, zair, paish in Urdu and as fatah, damma and qasra in Arabic. The Arabs did not require the vowel signs and diacritical marks for correct pronunciation of the Qur’an since it was their mother tongue. For Muslims of non-Arab origin, however, it was difficult to recite the Qur’an correctly without the vowels. These marks were introduced into the Quranic script during the time of the fifth ‘Umayyad’ Caliph, Malik-ar-Marwan (66-86 Hijri/685-705 C.E.) and during the governorship of Al-Hajaj in Iraq.
Some people argue that the present copy of the Qur’an that we have along with the vowels and the diacritical marks is not the same original Qur’an that was present at the Prophet’s time. But they fail to realize that the word ‘Qur’an’ means a recitation. Therefore, the preservation of the recitation of the Qur’an is important, irrespective of whether the script is different or whether it contains vowels. If the pronunciation and the Arabic is the same, naturally, the meaning remains the same too.
6. Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur’an
Allah has promised in the Qur’an :
“We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption).”
[Al-Qur’an 15:9]
The theory of Abrogation
1. Two different interpretations
The Glorious Qur’an says in the following verse:
“None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?”
[Al-Qur’an 2:106]
A reference to this is also made in chapter 16 verse 101 of Surah Nahl. The Arabic word mentioned is ayat which means ‘signs’ or ‘verses’ and which can also mean ‘revelations’. This verse of the Qur’an can be interpreted in two different ways:
a. The revelations that are abrogated are those revelations that were revealed before the Qur’an, for example the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel.
Here Allah (swt) says that He does not cause the previous revelations to be forgotten but He substitutes them with something better or similar, indicating that the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel were substituted by the Qur’an.
b. If we consider that the Arabic word ayat in the above verse refers to the verses of the Qur’an, and not previous revelations, then it indicates that none of the verses of the Qur’an are abrogated by Allah but substituted with something better or similar. This means that certain verses of the Qur’an, that were revealed earlier were substituted by verses that were revealed later. I agree with both the interpretations.
Many Muslims and non-Muslims misunderstand the second interpretation to mean that some of the earlier verses of the Qur’an were abrogated and no longer hold true for us today, as they have been replaced by the later verses of the Qur’an or the abrogating verses. This group of people even wrongly believe that these verses contradict each other.
Let us analyze a few such examples.
2. Produce a recital like the Qur’an / 10 Surahs / 1 Surah:
Some pagan Arabs alleged that the Qur’an was forged by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Allah (swt) challenges these Arabs in the following verse of Surah Al-Isra:
“Say: If the whole of Mankind and Jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur’an they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.”
[Al-Qur’an 17:88]
Later the challenge was made easy in the following verse of Surah Al-Hud:
“Or they may say, “He forged it.” Say, “Bring ye then ten Surahs forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsover ye can, other than Allah, if ye speak the truth!’.”
[Al-Qur’an 11:13]
It was made easier in the following verse of Surah Yunus:
“Or do they say, “He forged it”? Say: “Bring then a Surah like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can, besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!’.”
[Al-Qur’an 10:38]
Finally in Surah Al-Baqarah, Allah (swt) further simplified the challenge:
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true.
But if ye cannot – and of a surety ye cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – which is prepared for those who reject faith”.
[Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]
Thus Allah (swt) made the challenges progressively easier. The progressively revealed verses of the Qur’an first challenged the pagans to produce a book like the Qur’an, then challenged them to produce ten Surahs (chapters) like those in the Qur’an, then one Surah and finally it challenges them to produce one Surah somewhat similar (mim mislihi) to the Qur’anic Surahs. This does not mean that the later verses that were revealed i.e. of Surah Baqarah chapter 2 verses 23 and 24 contradict the earlier three verses. Contradiction implies mentioning two things that cannot be possible simultaneously, or cannot take place simultaneously.
The earlier verses of the Qur’an i.e. the abrogated verses are still the word of God and the information contained in it is true to this day. For instance the challenge to produce a recital like the Qur’an stands to this day. Similarly the challenge to produce ten Surahs and one Surah exactly like the Qur’an also holds true and the last challenge of producing one surah somewhat similar to the Qur’an also holds true. It does not contradict the earlier challenges, but this is the easiest of all the challenges posed by the Qur’an. If the last challenge cannot be fulfilled, the question of anyone fulfilling the other three more difficult challenges does not arise.
Suppose I speak about a person that he is so dumb, that he would not be able to pass the 10th standard in school. Later I say that he would not be able to pass the 5th standard, and further say that he would not be able to pass even the 1st standard. Finally I say that he is so dull that he would not even be able to pass K.G. i.e. kindergarten. One has to pass kindergarten before one can be admitted to school. What I am stating is that the person is so dull as to be unable to pass even kindergarten. My four statements do not contradict each other, but my last statement i.e. the person would not be able to pass the kindergarten is sufficient to indicate the intelligence of that person. If a person cannot even pass kindergarten, the question of him passing the first standard or 5th or 10th, does not arise.
Bilal Saeed
January 2, 2009 at 10:48 AM
One of the most common myths about the Qur’an, is that Usman (r.a.), the third Caliph of Islam authenticated and compiled one Qur’an, from a large set of mutually contradicting copies. The Qur’an, revered as the Word of Allah (swt) by Muslims the world over, is the same Qur’an as the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. We will examine the roots of the myth which says that Usman (r.a.) had the Qur’an authenticated.
1. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself supervised and authenticated the written texts of the Qur’an
Whenever the Prophet received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (R.A. – Radhi Allahu Taala Anhu) – May Allah be pleased with him who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an Ummi who could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur’an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur’an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (pbuh).
2. Order and sequence of Qur’an divinely inspired
The complete Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years portion by portion, as and when it was required. The Qur’an was not compiled by the Prophet in the chronological order of revelation. The order and sequence of the Qur’an too was Divinely inspired and was instructed to the Prophet by Allah (swt) through archangel Jibraeel. Whenever a revelation was conveyed to his companions, the Prophet would also mention in which surah (chapter) and after which ayat (verse) this new revelation should fit.
Every Ramadhaan all the portions of the Qur’an that had been revealed, including the order of the verses, were revised and reconfirmed by the Prophet with archangel Jibraeel. During the last Ramadhaan, before the demise of the Prophet, the Qur’an was rechecked and reconfirmed twice.
It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur’an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions.
3. Qur’an copied on one common material
The complete Qur’an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (pbuh). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (r.a.), the first caliph of Islam ordered that the Qur’an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.
4. Usman (r.a.) made copies of the Qur’an from the original manuscript
Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur’an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes. All the verses revealed to the Prophet may not have been heard personally by all the Companions. There were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur’an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur’an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.).
Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims.
There were other personal collections of the portions of the Qur’an that people had with them. These might have been incomplete and with mistakes. Usman (r.a.) only appealed to the people to destroy all these copies which did not match the original manuscript of the Qur’an in order to preserve the original text of the Qur’an. Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.
5. Diacritical marks were added for non-Arabs
The original manuscript of the Qur’an does not have the signs indicating the vowels in Arabic script. These vowels are known as tashkil, zabar, zair, paish in Urdu and as fatah, damma and qasra in Arabic. The Arabs did not require the vowel signs and diacritical marks for correct pronunciation of the Qur’an since it was their mother tongue. For Muslims of non-Arab origin, however, it was difficult to recite the Qur’an correctly without the vowels. These marks were introduced into the Quranic script during the time of the fifth ‘Umayyad’ Caliph, Malik-ar-Marwan (66-86 Hijri/685-705 C.E.) and during the governorship of Al-Hajaj in Iraq.
Some people argue that the present copy of the Qur’an that we have along with the vowels and the diacritical marks is not the same original Qur’an that was present at the Prophet’s time. But they fail to realize that the word ‘Qur’an’ means a recitation. Therefore, the preservation of the recitation of the Qur’an is important, irrespective of whether the script is different or whether it contains vowels. If the pronunciation and the Arabic is the same, naturally, the meaning remains the same too.
6. Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur’an
Allah has promised in the Qur’an :
“We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption).”
[Al-Qur’an 15:9]
Bilal Saeed
January 2, 2009 at 10:50 AM
The theory of Abrogation
1. Two different interpretations
The Glorious Qur’an says in the following verse:
“None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?”
[Al-Qur’an 2:106]
A reference to this is also made in chapter 16 verse 101 of Surah Nahl. The Arabic word mentioned is ayat which means ‘signs’ or ‘verses’ and which can also mean ‘revelations’. This verse of the Qur’an can be interpreted in two different ways:
a. The revelations that are abrogated are those revelations that were revealed before the Qur’an, for example the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel.
Here Allah (swt) says that He does not cause the previous revelations to be forgotten but He substitutes them with something better or similar, indicating that the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel were substituted by the Qur’an.
b. If we consider that the Arabic word ayat in the above verse refers to the verses of the Qur’an, and not previous revelations, then it indicates that none of the verses of the Qur’an are abrogated by Allah but substituted with something better or similar. This means that certain verses of the Qur’an, that were revealed earlier were substituted by verses that were revealed later. I agree with both the interpretations.
Many Muslims and non-Muslims misunderstand the second interpretation to mean that some of the earlier verses of the Qur’an were abrogated and no longer hold true for us today, as they have been replaced by the later verses of the Qur’an or the abrogating verses. This group of people even wrongly believe that these verses contradict each other.
Let us analyze a few such examples.
2. Produce a recital like the Qur’an / 10 Surahs / 1 Surah:
Some pagan Arabs alleged that the Qur’an was forged by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Allah (swt) challenges these Arabs in the following verse of Surah Al-Isra:
“Say: If the whole of Mankind and Jinns were together to produce the like of this Qur’an they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.”
[Al-Qur’an 17:88]
Later the challenge was made easy in the following verse of Surah Al-Hud:
“Or they may say, “He forged it.” Say, “Bring ye then ten Surahs forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsover ye can, other than Allah, if ye speak the truth!’.”
[Al-Qur’an 11:13]
It was made easier in the following verse of Surah Yunus:
“Or do they say, “He forged it”? Say: “Bring then a Surah like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can, besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!’.”
[Al-Qur’an 10:38]
Finally in Surah Al-Baqarah, Allah (swt) further simplified the challenge:
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your (doubts) are true.
But if ye cannot – and of a surety ye cannot – then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones – which is prepared for those who reject faith”.
[Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]
Thus Allah (swt) made the challenges progressively easier. The progressively revealed verses of the Qur’an first challenged the pagans to produce a book like the Qur’an, then challenged them to produce ten Surahs (chapters) like those in the Qur’an, then one Surah and finally it challenges them to produce one Surah somewhat similar (mim mislihi) to the Qur’anic Surahs. This does not mean that the later verses that were revealed i.e. of Surah Baqarah chapter 2 verses 23 and 24 contradict the earlier three verses. Contradiction implies mentioning two things that cannot be possible simultaneously, or cannot take place simultaneously.
The earlier verses of the Qur’an i.e. the abrogated verses are still the word of God and the information contained in it is true to this day. For instance the challenge to produce a recital like the Qur’an stands to this day. Similarly the challenge to produce ten Surahs and one Surah exactly like the Qur’an also holds true and the last challenge of producing one surah somewhat similar to the Qur’an also holds true. It does not contradict the earlier challenges, but this is the easiest of all the challenges posed by the Qur’an. If the last challenge cannot be fulfilled, the question of anyone fulfilling the other three more difficult challenges does not arise.
Suppose I speak about a person that he is so dumb, that he would not be able to pass the 10th standard in school. Later I say that he would not be able to pass the 5th standard, and further say that he would not be able to pass even the 1st standard. Finally I say that he is so dull that he would not even be able to pass K.G. i.e. kindergarten. One has to pass kindergarten before one can be admitted to school. What I am stating is that the person is so dull as to be unable to pass even kindergarten. My four statements do not contradict each other, but my last statement i.e. the person would not be able to pass the kindergarten is sufficient to indicate the intelligence of that person. If a person cannot even pass kindergarten, the question of him passing the first standard or 5th or 10th, does not arise.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 3, 2009 at 1:06 AM
THE BIBLE Vs QUR’AN-HADITH
The Bible
The Bible comprises:
1. God’s statements (at times printed in red)
2. Prophets’/Apostles’ traditions and
3. The report of events of Biblical times
In Islam, the ‘God’s statements (Qur’an) is completely separated from the ”Prophet’s/Apostles’ traditions”.
Muslims’ Ignorance
It is a pity that Muslims, who mistakenly imagine the Holy Bible to be like the Qur’an, quote the ‘reports’ and ‘traditions’ parts of the Bible in their efforts to proof that “the Bible is contradictory etc and therefore it is not God’s statements” instead of them to quote the Biblical God’s statements. Nevertheless, their arguments are normally simplistic.
The Hadith
It should be noted that Hadith, the Islamic equivalent of the portion of the Bible often capitalised upon by the Muslims, is the most contradictory and controversial book on Earth.
In the Hadith, to virtually every story or law there are radical or contradictory versions.
Qur’an/Hadith
Though successive revisions and corrections of the Qur’an have made it more consistent than Hadith, even Uthmanic version, the last version of the Qur’an, has created more questions than answers and left so many vital questions unanswered. Thus more fabrications and plagiarisms aimed at complementing even this last version of the Qur’an were made and added, not to the Qur’an as would have been preferred but, to the Hadith because the Qur’an had erstwhile been publicly declared as haven been perfectly completed.
Consequently the Hadith, which is supposed to solely be Traditions of Muhammad (Interpretation of the Qur’an) exceeds its scope such that it contains, in addition to Quranic elements:
i. Some big pre-Islamic stories/religious laws that are not traceable to the Qur’an and were logically plagiarised from the Bible and para- phrased.
ii. Some stories/religious laws that are by their virtue, supposed to be divine revelations and, therefore, originate from the Qur’an, but are curiously, not traceable to the Qur’an.
Examples of Hadth Exceeding its Scope (including Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih al-Muslim)
i. Hadis-al-Qudsi (supposed Allah’s statements), which are not traceable to the Qur’an.
ii. The Second Coming of Jesus (and some funny details), which are not traceable to the Qur’an.
iii. How to pray in Islam which, you may not believe it, is not traceable to Allah’s statements (Qur’an).
iv. The coming of the Dijjal on the Last Day and the reversed movement of the Sun by then, which is not from Qur’an.
v. Some additional sexually incredible stories of the said Paradise gift damsels (Hurul-in) and many other materials that are supposed to have been originally stated by Allah but are curiously not traceable to the Qur’an.
Indisputable Evidences of Corruption of The Qur’an
The evidences of mutilations even in the current (Uthmanic) version of the Qur’an include the following:
a. ALIF. LAM. MIN (which has been rendered meaningless by wrongful removal of some connective letters or words)
b. KAF. YA. A. IN. SAD ” ”
c. TA. SIN ” ”
d. ALIF. LAM. MIN. SAD ” ”
e. TA. SIN. MIN ” ”
f. ALIF. LAM. RA. ” ”
g. ALIF. LAM. MIN. RA etc etc. These evident corruptions occurred more than thirty (30) times in the Qur’an. What is clear is that God could not have made such meaningless statements. And if He did Prophet Muhammad would logically have asked Him (God) their meanings.
The So-called Variant Readings of the Qur’an (actually various versions of the Qur’anic verses and phrases)
Let me start from the Islamic sources themselves. According to ‘wise’ Islamic Scholars, the reason for these various versions is that, “When Qur’an was collated and compiled, the scribes and copyists wrote the text without using any diacritical points or marks. They relied on their familiarity with the text for correct reading. However, with passage of time the readers of the Qur’an faced difficulties in this respect and they came to read and understand the verses in ways that differed slightly from one another”. See AL-TAWHID, 1990 Vol. vii, no. 3 page 41. (P.O. Box 14155, Tehran, Islamic Republic of Iran).
The AL-TAWHID stated that versions of fourteen (14) reciters were originally chosen of which seven (7) have been considered the ‘mutawatir’ (most reliable), three as ‘ahad’ and the other four as ‘shadhah’.
AL-TAWHID adds, “Some like Jalal al-din al-Balqini, have accepted this classification while some like al-Suyuti consider the tawatur’ (authenticity) of the seven readers as doubtful for the following reasons:-
i. Because they have been transmitted through ‘Akhbar ahad’.
ii. Because some of the seven qurra (readers) were not reliable (muwaththaq) as narrators.
iii. Because those qira’at (readings) depended on subjective judgement (ra’y) and personal ‘ijtihad’ (thought) of the qurra. Had these been received through ‘tawatur’ from the Messenger of Allah there would have been no need of proof to establish their authenticity.
iv. Because some scholars have rejected some instances in the readings of the seven qurra”
AL-TAWHID continues “According to al-Zarakshi in al-Burhan fi ulum al-Qur’an (i, 318), those who believe in these seven qira’at being mutawatur (reliable) do so on the following bases:-
i. They claim ‘ijma’ (consensus) on the affirmation of their tawatur.
ii. They furnish evidence in favour of their authenticity on the bases of the care exercised by the ‘Sahabah’ (Muhammad’s companions) in the memorization and recitation of the Qur’an.
iii. They argue that not to regard these qira’at as ‘mutawatir’ necessarily leads to regarding the Qur’an also as non ‘mutawatir ‘.”
Another Moslems’ book titled ‘ITHBAT AN-NUBUWWA (THE PROOF OF PROPHETHOOD)’ noted that some Islamic scholars doubted the authenticity of Qur’an as compiled, maintaining that even “The Sahabah (Muhammad’s companions) were in doubt about some parts of the Qur’an. Abdullah ibn Mas’ud (radi-Allahu’anh) said that surat al-fatiha and suras of ‘Mu’awwizatan’ did not belong in the Qur’an. However, these three suras (chapters) are most renowned suras of the Qur’an….”.
In response, the book claim, “Sahabahs doubt about some suras belonging to the Qur’an….was because each of the suras was only reported by one person. According to the principle of ‘usul al-hadith’, information transmitted by one reporter is not certain, but doubtful…., there was disagrement as to wether or not they (the suras) belong to the Qur’an, which brings no harm agaisnt our (Moslems’) cause”
Obviously, the doubting scholars cited Mas’ud because he, as shown by many Hadith (including that of Bukhari and Muslim) had been rated by Prophet Muhammad himself as the best of all reciters. In fact, even if the above given reason is the only and the only cause of Mas’ud’s disbelieve in such chapters, his action was not only the best by the law of logic but even by the Qur’an itself (5:109-111, 24:4-10). Thus the ‘fakeness’ of the doubtful chapters.
The book acknowledges that the doubting scholars pointed out that “there have been disagreements concerning both the recitation and the meaning of the Qur’an among the scholars of Islam. On the other hand, Allahu-ta-ala intimates that the Qur’an contains no points of disagrement. For example He declares in the eight-first ayat of surat an-Nisa: ‘Were this Qur’an the word of some one other than Allah, it would contain many incongruities’…”
According to this book, the doubting scholars cite the incongruities which, in the light of surat an-Nisa, imply human authorship of the Qur’an as:-
i. Some read a phrase in surat al-Qaria: 81 as:
“Kal’ ihni’l-man-fush” while others read it as “Kassafi’l-manfush”
ii. Some read surat al-Jum’a: 9 as:
“fas’aw ila dhikri’llah” while others read it as “famdu ila dhikrillah”
iii. Some read surat al-Baqara: 61 as:
“alaihimu’ dh-dhillata wa’l-maskanata” while others read it as “alaihimu’l-maskanata wa’dh-dhillata”
The doubting scholars, the book noted, conclude, “The disagreement pertaining to meanings in the Qur’an can be examplified as follows:
i. The 19th ayat of surat Saba’ states, ‘Rabbana ba’id baina asfarina’. Which means, ‘Our Rabb! Take our books way from us? It is an invocation to Allah.
Some read it as, ‘Rabbana ba’ada baina asfarina’ which means, ‘Our Rabb has taken our books away from us”
ii. The 115th ayat of surat Ma’ida says, ‘Hal yastati’u Rabbuka’, which means ‘Will your Rabb accept your prayer?’.
Some read it as, ‘Hal tastali’u Rabbaka,’ which means, ‘Will you pray to your Rabb’ “.
Responding, the book acknowledges that the Quran ic verses were confirmed by (human) consensus and adds, “….Our Prophet (SAW) said, ‘The Qur’an was revealed on seven harps (readings) each of which is curative and sufficient.’ For this reason, the disagreement arising from the readings and the meanings of the Qur’an do not undermine its being ‘Mu’jiz’, said the book, ITHBAT AN_NUBUWWA (Waqf ikhlas Publications No. 9, TENTH EDITION, with address as:
HAKIKAT KITABEVI
Darrussefeka Cad. No. 57/A P.K. 35
34262-Faith ISTANBUL Tel: (90) (1) 523 45 56
TURKEY
1991
In his edition, a leading English Qur’an translator, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, explains two examples of the variant meanings among the present Qur’ans:
i. Qur’an 1:3
“Master of the Day of Judgment” and
“Sovereign of the Day of Judgment”
ii. Qur’an 5:6
“…wash your faces…and (wash) your feet” and
“…wash your faces and wipe your heads and (wipe) your feet”
Then he (Ali) claims, “..It is obvious from the two instances that in the variant readings, there is absolutely no contradiction in essence. On the other hand, they make the meaning all the more comprehensive. And the same is true of all the other variant readings”.
Readers, in the above examples, all given by Islamic authorities themselves, of the numerous inconsistencies that exist in the Qur’an, I still let you see the best excuse or reasons the renowned Islamic Scholars could themselves invent which (the ‘reasons’ ) only expose how a mere consensus book and, therefore fallible and controversial the Qur’an has always been. It does not require much intelligence to realize from the above that:
i. There is no original Qur’an at all and
ii. The Qur’an is full of evidences of its being produced by human being.
That is apparently why Ali takes solace in the escapist conclusion that in ‘essence’ the Qur’an does not contradict itself. That is because Ali knew that all the variant readings can’t be correct at the same time. They, logically and technically, could not have been uttered by Allah at the same time. So, only one can be correct in every category. Even the mildest variant reading Ali cleverly cited of ‘Master’ and ‘Sovereign’ still implies that the Qur’an has been tempered with. Allah could only have said ‘Master’ or ‘Sovereign’. Other inconsistencies are evident at a glance.
More Inconsistencies in the Qur’an
Compare Qur’an 3:45-49 and 19:17-20 (Allah account of Jesus birth. Compare the corresponding words in capital)
Qur’an 3:45 “…the ANGELS said ‘OH MARY! LO! ALLAH GIVES YOU A GLAD TIDING OF A WORD FROM HIM. WHOSE NAME IS MESSIAH, SON OF MARY, A SIGN IN THE WORLD AND HEREAFTER AND ONE OF THOSE CLOSE TO ALLAH. 46 HE WILL TALK TO MANKIND IN HIS CRADLE AND HIS MANHOOD. AND HE IS AMONG THE RIGHTEOUS. 47 She said ‘MY LORD how can I have a son when no man has touched me? He said SO IT WILL BE. ALLAH CREATES WHAT HE WISHES. IF HE DECREES A THING HE JUST SAY TO IT ‘be’ AND IT WILL. 48 AND HE WILL TEACH HIM SCRIPTURE AND WISDOM AND TORAH AND GOSPEL. 49 AND HE WILL MAKE HIM A MESSENGER TO ISRAELITES”.
QUR’AN 19:17 “…then we sent to her (Mary) our spirit (angel) and he assumed to her the likeness of a perfect man. 18 She said ‘LO! SEEK REFUGE FROM THE BENEFICIENT ONE ABOUT YOU, IF YOU ARE A GOD FEARING ONE. 19 He Said ‘I AM JUST A MESSENGER OF YOUR LORD, THAT I MAY GIVE YOU A FAULTLES SON. 20 She said ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me AND I HAVE NOT BEEN UNCHASTE? He said ‘SO IT WILL BE YOUR LORD SAID IT IS EASY FOR US. AND IT WILL BE THAT WE WILL MAKE HIM A REVELATION TO MANKIND AND MERCY FROM US IT IS A THING ORDAINED”.
For more inconsistencies compare:-
Qur’an 7:11-13 with 38:72-78, with 15:28:34; especially 7:13-18 with 38:77-86, with 15:34-44 and with 17:62-65.
Qur’an 3:7-8 with 39:23, 11:1, 16:89, 2:185, 54:17, 27:1; especially 3:7-8 with 16:89, 54:17 and 11:1.
Qur’an 29:16-18 with 21:51-57 with 37:83-90 with 26:69-82; especially 21:57-58 with 37:89-93, 21:58-66 with 37:97-99
Qur’an 3:45-49 with 19:17-20; especially 3:45-46 with 19:19, 3:47 with 19:20, 3:47-49 with 19:20
Qur’an 7:120-124, with 20:70-73; especially 7:120-122 with 20:70, 7:123-124, 20:71, 7:125-126 and 20:72-73
Qur’an 29:31-32 with 51:24-34, 15:51-60, 11:69-76
Qur’an 11:77-83 with 15:61-74.
Qur’an 3:38-40 with 19:2-10, 21:89-90.
Qur’an 28:29 with 20:9-10, 27:7-12.
Qur’an 28:30 with 20:11-16, 27:8-11.
Qur’an 20:21 with 28:31, 27:10-11.
Qur’an 28:32 with 20:22-24, 27:12.
Qur’an 28:33-34 with 20:25-35.
Qur’an 20:65 with 10:79-81.
Qur’an 20:65 with 10:81, 7:115.
Qur’an 28:34 with 7:109-115, 20:57-64, 10:79-81.
What came from one person (God) is supposed to at least be consistent. Therefore the Qur’an did not come from one person (God), because other than human factor there is no honest or realistic reason for its inconsistecies.
ARE THERE INCONSISTENCIES AND CONTRADICTIONS IN THE HOLY BIBLE?
Unlike the Qur’an, the Bible did not come from one person. Pathetically, the Muslims mistakenly see the Bible as the Christian equivalent of their Qur’an. So, like I said earlier, they cite wrong parts of the Bible to proof that the Christian Word of God is contradictory.
Even then, logically, the seeming inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible are what confirm its genuineness. Such parts of the Holy Bible were observations and writings of VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS and under VARIOUS CONDITIONS. Scientifically, such reports are subject to INDIVIDUALITY and CONDITIONALITY unless they are edited. Therefore, this existence of ‘INDIVIDUALNESS’ and ‘CONDITIONALITY’ is logically a strong proof that the individual Biblical account have never been edited; and are not fictions in which case they would have been identically written by all the collaborators, but are true and historical events writen independently by various individuals.
Example of CONDITIONALITY
Mark (10:46-52) says that Jesus healed while LEAVING Jericho. But Luke (18:35-43) says while ENTERING Jericho. This, as a Western Reverend writer observes in his book, had been thought to be (as it is apparently) a sharp contradiction until the excavation of Earnest Sellen of the German Oriental Society (citing ‘Archeology and Bible History page 295), when it was discovered that the Jericho of Jesus’ time was a double city–Jewish (old) Jericho and Roman (modern) Jericho, such that LEAVING one could as well mean ENTERING the other.
Therefore both Mark and Luke are perfectly right. Their various versions were caused by the CONDITION of the then Jericho namely, its double-city nature.
Example of INDIVIDUALITY
Because Mark and Luke (as in the case above) did not collaborate but rather independently wrote, INDIVIDUALITY became obvious in their judgments. Thus while one of them ‘conservatorially’ regarded regarded the original (Jewish) Jericho as the (actual) Jericho, the other ‘modernly’ regarded the administrative (Roman) Jericho as (currently) the Jericho.
Other Examples
i. Mark (1:6) says, “John’s food was ONLY locust and honey”, while Mathew (11:18) says, “John came NEITHER eating nor drinking.
Here, while Mark considered the ‘exact aspect’ of John’s feeding, Mathew on the other hand considered the ‘comparative’ or ‘metaphorical’ aspect .
ii. According to John (19:17) Jesus bore his cross up to the Golgotha. But according to Luke (23:26), one Simon was later on forced to carry the cross to follow Jesus. ‘A clear contradiction!! ‘, Muslims would exclaim. But the fact is that the then Jerusalem was a large and walled city and Golgotha was a place just outside Jerusalem. Normally, Jesus most have bore his cross from the Pilate’s Court to as far as outside the Jerusalem Wall and within the premises of the Golgotha before the Simon, who was not even an accused, was nevertheless forced to just take over form the apparently too fatigued Jesus to the exact crucifixion spot.
Therefore, while John ignored the ‘negligible’ contribution of Simon, Luke on the other hand, recognized it, perhaps for historical record.
Naturally, ‘INDIVIDUALITY’ and ‘CONDITIONALITY’ variously manifest any time a historical event is independently reported by different individuals and or when there is a difference of condition.
These types of situations are what Muslims simplistically referred to as contradictions in the Bible.
It should be noted, however, that the contradictions and inconsistencies in the Qur’an can not be explained in terms of ‘CONDITIONALTY’ and ‘INDIVIDUALITY’ because the Qur’an as a whole was supposedly uttered by one person (God). Of course if there exist contradictions in the direct words of God in the Bible, they likewise can not be explained in that ways. But there is non in actual sense.
May the Almighty Yahweh open the eyes of my Muslim friends to see the light of Christ.
Bilal Saeed
January 4, 2009 at 1:48 PM
Your last statement included the word “Yehowa”, so im assuming you are the follower of Jehovah’s witness.
The book of Deuteronomy 18:20-22 sets a standard on how to judge if a Prophet is from God.
And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Well, it’s simple. This is a criteria that Muslims can also agree to, if a Prophet is from God, any Prophecy he makes should eventuate as claimed. This would be the sole ultimate proof of the Prophets genuineness. If the prophecies don’t come to pass, then the so-called Prophet is a false Prophet. And hence he is not being guided by God at all. The Jehovah’s Witnesses headquarters (the Watchtower in Brooklyn, New York) claims to be a body of Prophets as those sent to the peoples of the Biblical era. Let’s analyse the prophecy.
If you read “The Watchtower”, April 1, 1972, p 197, we can establish here that jehovah’s witnesses claim to receive divine guidance and such, their writings and prophecies must be infallible.
So what was supposed to happen to humanity in 1918?
“Until 1878 the nominal church had been in a sense God’s sanctuary or Temple; but He was from then on, culminating in 1918, to remove it with a stroke or plague of erroneous doctrines and deeds Divinely permitted”. “Also in the year the 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity”. From The Finished Mystery, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society,
Brooklyn, N.Y., 1917, pp. 484-485
What was supposed to happen to humanity in 1925 and which prophets were supposed to be resurrected?
“That period of time beginning 1575 before A.D. 1 of necessity would in the fall of the year 1925, at which time the type ends and the great antitype must begin. What, then should we expect to take place? The chief thing to be restored is the human race to life; and since other scriptures definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of olf, and that these will have the first favour, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of the things on earth”. From The Watchtower 2 May 1922, p. 100.
What was supposed to happen in 1975?
“It means that only few years, at most remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God. “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur”—Matt. 24:34.
“Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the last days began. Jesus was saying that some of those persons who were alive at the appearance of the sign of last days would still be alive when God brought this system to its end. Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realise the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of this generation nearly 70 years old today”…. From Awake, 8 october, 1968, p 15
So what really happened in 1975 then?
As the record shows
*King Faisal of Saudi Arabia was assassinated
*Cambodia fell to the Khmer Rouge
*Saigon surrendered, ending the Vietnam War
*Human Rights pact was signed in Helsinki
*Civil war broke out in Lebanon
*Prime Minister of Australia, Gough Whitlam was dismissed, and Fraser became PM.
*The Spanish monarchy was restored following the death of Franco
Strange, no historical record has been kept in regards to the end of the world!. It would indeed have been the only event in which every person alive could claim to have been a witness (no, not Jehovah’s Witness, but a witness to the calamity). And more than a quarter of a century later, we are still here and so are the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Well so the cult failed again, it wasn’t the first time, and it wont be the last.
DOES NOT THE BELOW SCENARIO APPLY TO THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES?
IF ALL OTHER PROPHECIES HAVE FAILED, DO WE HAVE THE EVIDENCE FOR TRUE PROPHECIES?
“True, there have been those in times past who predicted an end to the world even announcing a specific date, some have gathered groups with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet, nothing happened. The end didn’t come. They were guilty of false prophesying, Why? What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfilment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God’s truths and the evidence that he was guiding and suing them. Does this admission of making mistakes stamp them as false prophets? Not at all, for false prophets do not admit to making mistakes. From Awake, oct 8 1968, p 23 and The watchtower 1 Oct 1972, p 644.
THEY ARE SO RIGHT, FALSE PROPHETS WONT ADMIT TO MAKING MISTAKES. JUST LIKE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES, THEY WONT ADMIT TO MAKING MISTAKES FOR THE VERY REASON THAT THEY HAVE DISPLAYED A LONG SPAN OF FAILED PROPHECIES. SO IN EFFECT, THEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS (AS IF WE NEEDED PROOF TO BE CERTAIN).
But there’s more, the same organisation that claims God guides and the Holy Spirit inspires their Awake and Watchtower magazines. Published an article in 1957, entitled “50 000 Errors in the Bible” . “The article says most of the 50 000 errors have been corrected” (in their New World Translation.) Indeed that is what the article reads, but wait!
“If most of the errors have been corrected, how many remain; 5 000, 500, 50. Or even if 50 errors remained. Would you attribute those 50 errors to God”.
Bilal Saeed
January 4, 2009 at 1:49 PM
WHO IS JEHOVAH?
Astonishing as it may sound, it is an admitted fact that prior to the sixteenth century, the word “Jehovah,” was unheard of. Whenever the origin of this word appeared in its true Hebrew form in Jewish Scriptures (read from right to left as in Arabic) Yet, Huh, Wav, Huh; or Y.H.W.H. these four letters were preceded by a substitute word “Adonai,” to warn the reader that the following word was not to be articulated. The Jews took meticulous care in repeating this exercise in their “Book of God” six thousand, eight hundred and twenty-three times – interpolating the words “Adonai” or “Elohim.” They sincerely believed that this awesome name of God was never to be pronounced. This prohibition was no ordinary affair: it called for a penalty of death on one who dared to utter it, and this taboo has been more successful than all the “DO’s” and “DON’T’s” of the Ten Commandments put together.
If Jehovah is the name of God Almighty, and if the 27 Books of the New Testament were inspired by Him, then it is an anomaly of the highest order, that He (Jehovah) signally failed to have His Own Name recorded in “His Word” (N.T.) the Christian addition to the Jewish Bible. The Christians claim that they have in their possession over twenty-four thousand so-called “originals” of their Holy Writ in the Greek language, and yet not a single parchment has “Jehovah” written in it. Curiously this “name of God” (?) has been sacrilegiously replaced by the Greek words ky’ri.os and the.os’, which mean ‘Lord’ and ‘God.’ Yet, miracle of miracles – Alleluya! – no devil or saint has been able to eliminate the word “ALLAH” from the so-called New Testament of the Christians.
NEW FANGLED DOCTRINES
A hundred years ago, all of a sudden, more than a hundred new cults and denominations of Christiandom mushroomed in the United States of America. The Seventh Day Adventists, the Christian Scientists, the Menonites, the Christiadelphins, The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the like. The founder of the last named cult, a Judge Rutherford, about whom the orthodox Christians say that he was no “Judge.” This Judge was a voracious book-worm and a prolific writer. He stumbled across the word “Jehovah” which tickled him immensely, and he made a religion out of it.
Judge Rutherford, followed by Charles T. Russell created a new “church,” which in its system of organisation and administration is second to none in the world. There is very much we Muslims can learn from their enthusiasm and methodology. Read, “Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave” by Schelin. It is not their theology I am enamoured with but their modus operandi (the way they operate). Read, how this incorrigible sect came very close to conquering Germany before Hitler. Read, about their second come- back in West Germany. Think, why they are making a most concerted effort in Nigeria. Will the system or religion that prevails in Nigeria, be utlimately the norm of the rest of Africa! This giant is the hero of the majority of the African people south of the Sahara. Muslims must reflect.
VIRILE SECT
The “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” have made the most phenominal progress of all the religious sects of the past hundred years, on a percentage basis. The Bahaies are moving at a snails-pace in comparison, actually receding in ratio with the other Christian off-shoots. These “Witnesses” are the fittest in their fight against the other Christians as well as against the Muslims. Simply because they programme themselves five times a week in their “Kingdom Halls,” and what they learn they implement during the week-ends. We Muslims are supposed to be “programmed” five times a day in our daily Salaat, but we have lost the true purpose of this Pillar of Islam. Our Salaat is for earning Sawaab (spiritual blessings) only.
They have made the word JEHOVAH famous. They knock at people’s doors, asking the question – “What is His Name?” The orthodox Christian replies – “God.” They say, “God is not a name, it is an object of worship. What’s His Name?” “Father,” says the orthodox as a second try. “Is your father God?” Of course not! So what is His Name? “JEHOVAH! is His Name,” says the “Witness” to both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. He has become a professor of this one word. He has made it into a religion.
THE “TETRAGRAMMATON”
Why not for a change ask him, a question or two. Ask him where he got the word Jehovah from? He will surely reply – “From the Holy Bible.” What does it say? Does it spell out the word J-e-h-o-v-a-h? “No,” he will reply. “There is a ‘tetragrammaton’ in the Bible from which the word Jehovah is derived.” What is a tetragrammaton? No one seems to have heard this highly mystical term. In the University of Illinois in the U.S.A. I asked a gathering of students and lecturers whether any one had heard this jaw-breaker! Not one of them knew its meaning! But every Jehovah’s Witness seems to know, even the commonest of them. They have really specialised – ours is a world of specialisation. They are Professors of the one word – Jehovah.
What then is a “tetragrammaton!” The Jehovah’s Witness replies, “Y H W Hi!”
“No!” “What I want to know from you is, what does the word tetragrammaton mean?” You will find him most reluctant in explaining. Either he does not really know, or he is feeling embarrassed in replying. “Tetra,” in Greek means FOUR, and “grammaton,” means LETTERS. It simply means “a four letter word.”
Can you read into Y H W H the word Jehovah? I cannot. “No!”, says the Jehovah’s Witness, “we ought to add vowels to these four consonents to produce the sound. Originally, both Hebrew and Arabic were written without the vowel signs The native of each language was able to read if even without those vowels. Not so the outsider, for whose benefit the vowels were invented.
THE “J” SICKNESS
Let us add the vowels as the “Witness” suggests. YHWH becomes YeHoWaH. Juggle as you like but you can never materialise Jehovah! Ask him, from which hat he drew his “J”. He will tell you that “this is the ‘popular’ pronunciation from the 16th century.” The exact sound of the four letters YHWH is known neither to the Jews nor to the Gentiles, yet he is ramming JEHOVAH down everyones throats. The European Christians have developed a fondness (sickness) for the letter “J” They add J’s where there are no Jays. Look!
Yael he converts to Joel
Yehuda to Juda
Yeheshua to Joshua
Yusuf to Joseph
Yunus to Jonah
Yesus to Jesus
Yehowa to Jehovah
There is no end to the Westerner’s infatuation for the letter “J.” Now in the busy streets of South Africa, he charges people who carelessly cross them for “jay-walking,” but nobody charges him for converting Jewish (Yehudi) names into Gentile names.
The letters Y H W H occur in the Hebrew (Jewish) Scriptures 6 823 times, boasts the Jehovah’s Witness, and it occurs in combination with the word “Elohim;” 156 times in the booklet called Genesis alone. This combination YHWH/ELOHIM has been consistently translated in the English Bible as “Lord God,” “Lord God,” Lord God,” ad infinitum.
COMMON ORIGIN
What is YHWH; and what is ELOHIM? Since the lews did not articulate the word YHWH for centuries, and since even the Chief Rabbis would not allow the ineffable to be heard, they have forfeited the right to claim dogmatically how the word is to be sounded. We have to seek the aid of the Arab to revive Hebrew, a language which had once died out. In every linguistic difficulty recourse has to be made to Arabic, a sister language, which has remained alive and viable. Racially and linguistically, the Arabs and the Jews have a common origin, going back to Father Abraham.1
Note the startling resemblance between the languages, very often the same sounding words carry identical meaning in both.
HEBREW ARABIC ENGLISH
Elah Ilah god
Ikhud Ahud one
Yaum Yaum day
Shaloam Salaam peace
Yahuwa Ya Huwa oh he
YHWH or Yehova or Yahuwa all mean the very same thing. “Ya” is a vocative and an exclamatory particle in both Hebrew and Arabic, meaning Oh! And “Huwa” or “Hu” means He, again in both Hebrew and Arabic. Together they mean Oh He! So instead of YHWH ELOHIM, we now have Oh He! ELOHIM.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 4, 2009 at 4:14 PM
Bilal Saeed, you have not responded to my last comment and you are jumping to another issue. You responded only once. And even then you doged most of the issues I raised. You are yet to respond to my: TRINITY: Islam initially recognized three Arabian Gods; The BIBLE Vs QUR’AN-HADITH. In fact even your response to my ‘PROOF THE DIVINITY OF JESUS from the Koran and the Bible’ has left more questions than answers and many questions un-answered—as I am soon going to show Insh’allah!!!
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 4, 2009 at 4:23 PM
Jehovah witness don’t belief in the Trinity but I strongly believe in the Holy TRINITY. Therefore I am clearly not a member of Jehovah Witness Bilal.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 4, 2009 at 5:53 PM
In response to Bilal Saeed
Mr. Bilal, stop deliberately quoting the Qur’an out of context or misinterpretation in your desperate attempt to promote Islam. That is a very wrong ‘Daawah’; it is not even good as a ‘taqiyya’ as your falsehood is too glaring. Remember that your readers, even if they are not already versed in the Qur’an, would check it to verify your claims.
Note this:
i. In your response to my response to your earlier article, you said Prophet Yahya too was referred to as ‘Kalimatullah’, a Word from Allah. That is not true at all. Qur’an 3:38-39, which you cited is rather saying, Yahya would come, “witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah”. That is, Yahya is not the Word. He would only witness the truth of the Word of Allah which was Jesus who was coming. You can read the Arabic version of the Qur’an for more clarity or check the various tafsirs on these ayats.
ii. Similarly, the surah Al Hijr (Chapter 15) verse 29 and surah Sajdah (Chapter 32) verse 9 which you deliberately quoted out of context are actually referring to God breathing life into Adam, but not into “every human being” as you claimed. By the way, we the human beings are not even Children of the original Adam. We are children of the demoted Adam or Adam after his fall.
iii. On Jesus being Ruhullah, you wanted to play with semantics but you exposed your self. You said Jesus is not Spirit of God and that Ruhullah means a Spirit from God. That is not true at all. Ruhullah means Spirit (soul) of Allah and not a Spirit from Allah. There is no “a…from…” in the word Ruhullah. You just want to mislead non Arabic speakers.
iv. Similarly, Kalimatullah means Word of Allah and not a Word from Allah. There is no “a…from…” in the word Kalimatullah. And only Jesus is Biblically and Qur’anically referred to as Kalimatullah.
Note also that naturally, logically and linguistically word of a person is always a word from him; but a word from person is not necessarily his word.
Similarly, Spirit of a person is always a spirit from him; but a spirit from person is not necessarily his spirit.
Thus every Spirit or Word of God is a Spirit or Word from God. But not every Spirit or Word from God is Spirit of God or Word of God.
Therefore Jesus, who is God’s Spirit and God’s Word can also be referred to as a Spirit from God or a Word from God for an effect. So, we are all spirits from God; but we are not Spirit of God. Only Jesus is.
Now the main issue: Bilal’s falsification of the Divinity of Christ
Bilal and his likes should go back and read my Proof of the Divinity of Christ and then ask themselves the questions below:
i. Why did God had to promote Maryam above all the women of creation before He breathed the Ruh that was to be Isah’s soul in her, if the Ruh was to be like that of any other Prophet?
ii. If a Ruh from Allah can’t have a divine element why did Allah instructed that as soon as He breath something of His Spirit as a life for Adam, all the angels should worship him (Adam)? And does that thing in the Ruh given Adam which qualified him to be worshiped by angels not raise your curiosity?
iii. Since Islamically (and of course Biblically) only divinity deserves worship and Allah Himself instructed the angels to worship the Ruh he breathed into Adam as life, does that not imply that there were divine element in the Ruh He breathed as life for the original Adam? (The Adam before he failed by sin and, therefore got demoted)?
iv. Is it not incontrovertible that Jesus is greater than Adam and for which reason, while Adam failed Satanic test Jesus prevailed; and according to both The Bible and the Qur’an Jesus is sinless?
v. In conclusion, since the souls of both Jesus and Adam were Ruh from Allah, and the Ruh meant for Adam had divine element (was worshiped) and Jesus is greater than Adam, why can’t you believe that Jesus is divine?
vi. Has Jesus not finally gone to his origin, God? In other words, has the Qur’an not say God has taken him (Jesus) up unto Himself just as the Bible says?
May the Almighty Yahweh open the eyes of my dear brother Bilal to see the light of Christ as recently did Mr. Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of a renowned Hamas leader.
,
Bilal Saeed
January 4, 2009 at 9:31 PM
You claim to know the tafseer but clearly you have not understood the tafseer of the this surah at all. Quoting of context? Well you need to know the context first before you are allowed to quote and since your understanding of the verses of surah najm is completely abhorrent, inshAllah I will debate with you in the words addressed by Allaah (the Arabic name of the One True God) to the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and the disbelievers. He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary) was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word (‘Be!’ – and he was), which He bestowed on Maryam, and a spirit created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One (God). Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of Affairs.”
[al-Nisa’ 4:171]
Refuting Idolatry, Al-Lat and Al-`Uzza
Surah 53: 19-23
19. Allah the Exalted rebukes the idolators for worshipping idols and taking rivals to Him. They built houses for their idols to resemble the Ka`bah built by Prophet Ibrahim, Allah’s Khalil.
(Have you then considered Al-Lat,) Al-Lat was a white stone with inscriptions on. There was a house built around Al-Lat in At-Ta’if with curtains, servants and a sacred courtyard around it. The people of At-Ta’if, the tribe of Thaqif and their allies, worshipped Al-Lat. They would boast to Arabs, except the Quraysh, that they had Al-Lat. Ibn Jarir said, “They derived Al-Lat’s name from Allah’s Name, and made it feminine. Allah is far removed from what they ascribe to Him. It was reported that Al-Lat is pronounced Al-Lat because, according to `Abdullah bin `Abbas, Mujahid, and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, Al-Lat was a man who used to mix Sawiq (a kind of barley mash) with water for the pilgrims during the time of Jahiliyyah. When he died, they remained next to his grave and worshipped him.” Al-Bukhari recorded that Ibn `Abbas said about Allah’s statement.
(Al-Lat, and Al-`Uzza.) “Al-Lat was a man who used to mix Sawiq for the pilgrims.” Ibn Jarir said, “They also derived the name for their idol Al-`Uzza from Allah’s Name Al-`Aziz. Al-`Uzza was a tree on which the idolators placed a monument and curtains, in the area of Nakhlah, between Makkah and At-Ta’if. The Quraysh revered Al-`Uzza.” During the battle of Uhud, Abu Sufyan said, “We have Al-`Uzza, but you do not have Al-`Uzza.” Allah’s Messenger replied, (Say, “Allah is Our Supporter, but you have no support.”) Manat was another idol in the area of Mushallal near Qudayd, between Makkah and Al-Madinah. The tribes of Khuza`ah, Aws and Khazraj used to revere Manat during the time of Jahiliyyah. They used to announce Hajj to the Ka`bah from next to Manat. Al-Bukhari collected a statement from `A’ishah with this meaning.
There were other idols in the Arabian Peninsula that the Arabs revered just as they revered the Ka`bah, besides the three idols that Allah mentioned in His Glorious Book. Allah mentioned these three here because they were more famous than the others. An-Nasa’i recorded that Abu At-Tufayl said, “When the Messenger of Allah conquered Makkah, he sent Khalid bin Al-Walid to the area of Nakhlah where the idol of Al-`Uzza was erected on three trees of a forest. Khalid cut the three trees and approached the house built around it and destroyed it. When he went back to the Prophet and informed him of the story, the Prophet said to him, (Go back and finish your mission, for you have not finished it.) Khalid went back and when the custodians who were also its servants of Al-`Uzza saw him, they started invoking by calling Al-`Uzza! When Khalid approached it, he found a naked woman whose hair was untidy and who was throwing sand on her head. Khalid killed her with the sword and went back to the Messenger of Allah , who said to him, (That was Al-`Uzza!)” Muhammad bin Ishaq narrated, “Al-Lat belonged to the tribe of Thaqif in the area of At-Ta’if. Banu Mu`attib were the custodians of Al-Lat and its servants.” I say that the Prophet sent Al-Mughirah bin Shu`bah and Abu Sufyan Sakhr bin Harb to destroy Al-Lat. They carried out the Prophet’s command and built a Masjid in its place in the city of At-Ta’if. Muhammad bin Ishaq said that Manat used to be the idol of the Aws and Khazraj tribes and those who followed their religion in Yathrib (Al-Madinah). Manat was near the coast, close to the area of Mushallal in Qudayd. The Prophet sent Abu Sufyan Sakhr bin Harb or `Ali bin Abi Talib to demolish it. Ibn Ishaq said that Dhul-Khalasah was the idol of the tribes of Daws, Khath`am and Bajilah, and the Arabs who resided in the area of Tabalah. I say that Dhul-Khalasah was called the Southern Ka`bah, and the Ka`bah in Makkah was called the Northern Ka`bah. The Messenger of Allah sent Jarir bin `Abdullah Al-Bajali to Dhul-Khalasah and he destroyed it. Ibn Ishaq said that Fals was the idol of Tay’ and the neighboring tribes in the Mount of Tay’, such as Salma and Ajja. Ibn Hisham said that some scholars of knowledge told him that the Messenger of Allah sent `Ali bin Abi Talib to Fals and he destroyed it and found two swords in its treasure, which the Prophet then gave to `Ali as war spoils. Muhammad bin Ishaq also said that the tribes of Himyar, and Yemen in general, had a house of worship in San`a’ called Riyam. He mentioned that there was a black dog in it and that the religious men who went with Tubba` removed it, killed it and demolished the building. Ibn Ishaq said that Ruda’ was a structure of Bani Rabi`ah bin Ka`b bin Sa`d bin Zayd Manat bin Tamim, which Al-Mustawghir bin Rabi`ah bin Ka`b bin Sa`d demolished after Islam. In Sindad there was Dhul-Ka`bat, the idol of the tribes of Bakr and Taghlib, the sons of the Wa’il, and also the Iyad tribes.
Allah the Exalted said,
(Have you then considered Al-Lat, and Al-`Uzza. And Manat, the other third), then Allah said: (Is it for you the males and for Him the females) Allah asked the idolators, `do you choose female offspring for Allah and give preference to yourselves with the males If you made this division between yourselves and the created, it would be, (a division most unfair!)’ meaning, it would be an unfair and unjust division. `How is it then that you make this division between you and Allah, even though this would be foolish and unjust, if you made it between yourselves and others’ Allah the Exalted refutes such innovated lies, falsehood and atheism they invented through worshipping the idols and calling them gods, (They are but names which you have named — you and your fathers) of your own desire, (for which Allah has sent down no authority.) meaning, proof, (They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire,) they have no proof, except their trust in their forefathers who took this false path in the past, as well as, their lusts and desires to become leaders, and thereby gain honor and reverence for their forefathers, (whereas there has surely come to them the guidance from their Lord!), meaning, Allah has sent them Messengers with the clear truth and unequivocal evidence. However, they did not adhere to or follow the guidance that came to them through the Prophets.
You completely misquoted the 4 verses of the quran and your futile attempt to drag the concept of Trinity into the Holy Quran is baseless. Oneness of Allah (Tawheed) is first pillar of Islam. There is no deity except Allah and Muhammad (pbuh) is the messenger of Allah.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 4, 2009 at 10:57 PM
In response to Bilal Saeed
THE SCANDAL OVER AL-LAT, MANAT AND UZZA IS A HISTORICAL FACT. I DID NOT INVENT IT BILAL; JUST CONSULT YOUR SHEIKH
I revealed to you the scandal of Islamic imitated and failed ‘trinity’ (Allat, Manat and Uzza). I have observed that Islamized personalities like you Bilal are oblivious of this scandal and many others that characterized the Initial Islam. That is why you think you can ridicule Christian doctrines.And, it is instructive that the details of this scandal originated from At-Tabari, Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa’d among other authoritative Islamic sources. Mr. Bilal, just consult competent Islamic scholars for details of this scandal. You will be shocked to learn that when Prophet Muhammad completed the recitation of Surah Najm (53) in which the three pagan Goddesses were endorsed, he then led both Muslims and pagans to prostrate. What does that imply further? Mr. Bilal, you also claimed that I wanted to impose Trinity on Islam by misquoting the Qur’an. But you failed to prove that I misquoted the Qur’an. I don’t need to misquote the Qur’an to impose Trinity on Islam because Islam itself had imposed the counterfeit ‘Trinity’ on itself which boomeranged scandalously. Don’t trivialize or divert an important discussion. Go streight to respond to my comment because those reading us know that you are never addressing the issues in my comments. Thank you. Till I hear from you again insh’Allah.
Bilal Saeed
January 5, 2009 at 9:54 AM
As if whatever i post you just don’t read it. I thank you once again that you reinforce what you have written time and again, and every time i read your posts i find a weakness in your claims. You say and i quote “Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) completed the recitation of surah najm in which three pagan Goddesses were “apparently” endorsed, he then led both muslims and pagans to prostrate”. Where is this coming from? You say that with such authority as if you were there. It’s a slander of no basis whatsoever, something which muslims have heard of since the first revelation of the Quran. I do not need to repeat what i have said in my previous posts. As far as consulting a scholar, then any muslim scholar will say the same thing as i did. i fail to see what you are trying to get at. The tafseer is very explanatory, Allah (S.W.T) has refuted the 3 gods that you are so eager to pick on, there is nothing more to say. In the beginning of my last post i quoted from the Quran, [al-Nisa’ 4:171], which eliminates any wrong interpretation you may have about trinity in the quran. Also, nowhere in the Bible the word Trinity appears! Muslims do not believe in the Bible, Bible is just a corrupted form of the Injeel-e-Eesa (Gospel of Jesus) which we muslims believe in, not the Bible! Bible is distorted and changed, fabrications aplenty, a fact which is backed up by 32 Christians scholars of the highest eminence.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 5, 2009 at 2:03 PM
OK OK Bilal, let me simplify it for you this way:
If the Qur’an is not corrupted, what then are the meanings of: ALIF-LAM-MIM; KAF- YA-A-IN-SAD; TA-SIN-MIN; etc as found in even the current version of the Qur’an? Also, if Qur’an is ‘intact as revealed’ as you normally claime, what then brought about the variant readings in which there are conspicuous variations in wordings of phrases of ayats. Pls I need an answere, not rethorics.
Thanks
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 5, 2009 at 2:07 PM
OK Bilal, let me simplify it for you this way:
If the Qur’an is not corrupted, what then are the meanings of: ALIF-LAM-MIM; KAF- YA-A-IN-SAD; TA-SIN-MIN; etc as found in even the current version of the Qur’an? Also, if Qur’an is ‘intact as revealed’ as you normally claim, what then brought about the variant readings in which there are conspicuous variations in wordings of phrases of ayats. Pls I need an answere, not rehtoric.
Thanks
Ibnkhalil
January 5, 2009 at 5:07 PM
Mr. Nur please read Shaykh Yasir Qadhi’s book on The Sciences of the Quran. It will answer your questions.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 5, 2009 at 5:46 PM
In response to Mr. IbnKhalil
Wallahi Tallahi , nobody in this World knows the precise meanings of these corrupted phrases of the Qur’an. Similarly, no one can convincingly prove that the so-called variant readings (in which phrases of some Qur’anic verses clearly differ in wordings) are not as a result of failure of the ummah to agree (or reach consensus) on the likely correct reading. I am being honest with you my brother Khalil.
You will eventually know the truth Insh’Allah.
Ibnkhalil
January 5, 2009 at 7:15 PM
Mr. Nur, The Quran is not corrupted Alhamdulillah. It is the Book of Allah as is Injeel and the Taurah. The Quran is not corrupted. Your claim is not a new one and has been answered by Allah in His Book Himself. Had it been from other then Allah there would be contradictions in it.
The huroof muqattat such ali-laam-meem(Surah Al Baqarah) occur many times in the Quran. Their meanings are only known to Allah(AWJ). We have not been told the meaning to these letters. It is in the Quran and we believe in it.
Again, please consult the book I mentioned for further analysis of the subject.
Rifai
January 5, 2009 at 8:09 PM
TO Nur…
I note that u are very verbose…it no doubt serves to couch ur intellectually bankrupt arguments with some sort of legitimacy…by appearing to know what ur talking about…not that its true of course…
A simple question : Does the Bible contain any true contradictions? I wonder what u say…given all the clear contradictions present…
BTW , the fact that you even quoted the satanic verses as an argument makes it clear that you are not to be taken seriously.
Do read the articles linked …
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html
Ur feats of mental acrobatics are dizzying and tiringly boresome.And just to be sure , Im not being arrogant, just annoyed and angered at ur confused argumentation and insults to Islam.
Qas
January 5, 2009 at 8:12 PM
Actually Bro. Ibnkhalil, I always thought of the beauty of the huroof muqattat in that they affirm the authenticity of the Qur’an. Unlike the current Bible, whose authors removed or changed things they did not understand or like, the Qur’an is wholly preserved even with the words we do not and cannot understand. If these huroof muqattat were so meticulously preserved and recited, what about the rest….
Ibnkhalil
January 5, 2009 at 8:20 PM
mashAllah well said Br/Sr. Qas.
The Sahaba knew what the Prophet(SAW) had told them regarding these words and they had no debate in the issue and passed the knowledge along.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 6, 2009 at 5:19 AM
In resonse to Mr. Rifai
If you have nothing to say pls just be a silent spectator. If you have knowledge then answer any of my questions above or respond to any of my comments because they have not been answered. Only Mr. Bilal Saeed has tried. Mr. Ibn Kahlil too has at least made reference to a book. But you Mr. Rifai are just attacking me in your likely attempt to divert the intellectual debate. My use of verbs is to make myself as clear to seekers of truth as possible.
The scandal of Satanic Verses and several other scandals that characterized initial Islam have been hidden away from people like you, that is why whenever they are revealed to you you think they are fabrications aimed at discrediting Islam. But why can’t you simply verify from competent and trustworthy Islamic Scholars, the historicity of such claims?
On the issue of the alleged infallibility of Qur’an and fallibility of the Bible, just read (and if possible respond to) my “THE BIBLE Vs QUR’AN-HADITH”. On the alleged contradictions in the Bible, I explained thus:
The Bible comprises:
1. God’s statements (at times printed in red)
2. Prophets’/Apostles’ traditions and
3. The report of events of Biblical times
In Islam, the ‘God’s statements (Qur’an) is completely separated from the ”Prophet’s/Apostles’ traditions”.
Muslims’ Ignorance
It is a pity that Muslims, who mistakenly imagine the Holy Bible to be like the Qur’an, quote the ‘reports’ and ‘traditions’ parts of the Bible in their efforts to proof that “the Bible is contradictory etc and therefore it is not God’s statements” instead of them to quote the Biblical God’s statements. Nevertheless, their arguments are normally simplistic.
ARE THERE INCONSISTENCIES AND CONTRADICTIONS IN THE HOLY BIBLE?
Unlike the Qur’an, the Bible did not come from one person. Pathetically, the Muslims mistakenly see the Bible as the Christian equivalent of their Qur’an. So, like I said earlier, they cite wrong parts of the Bible to proof that the Christian Word of God is contradictory.
Even then, logically, the seeming inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible are what confirm its genuineness. Such parts of the Holy Bible were observations and writings of VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS and under VARIOUS CONDITIONS. Scientifically, such reports are subject to INDIVIDUALITY and CONDITIONALITY unless they are edited. Therefore, this existence of ‘INDIVIDUALNESS’ and ‘CONDITIONALITY’ is logically a strong proof that the individual Biblical account have never been edited; and are not fictions in which case they would have been identically written by all the collaborators, but are true and historical events writen independently by various individuals.
Example of CONDITIONALITY
Mark (10:46-52) says that Jesus healed while LEAVING Jericho. But Luke (18:35-43) says while ENTERING Jericho. This, as a Western Reverend writer observes in his book, had been thought to be (as it is apparently) a sharp contradiction until the excavation of Earnest Sellen of the German Oriental Society (citing ‘Archeology and Bible History page 295), when it was discovered that the Jericho of Jesus’ time was a double city–Jewish (old) Jericho and Roman (modern) Jericho, such that LEAVING one could as well mean ENTERING the other.
Therefore both Mark and Luke are perfectly right. Their various versions were caused by the CONDITION of the then Jericho namely, its double-city nature.
Example of INDIVIDUALITY
Because Mark and Luke (as in the case above) did not collaborate but rather independently wrote, INDIVIDUALITY became obvious in their judgments. Thus while one of them ‘conservatorially’ regarded regarded the original (Jewish) Jericho as the (actual) Jericho, the other ‘modernly’ regarded the administrative (Roman) Jericho as (currently) the Jericho.
Other Examples
i. Mark (1:6) says, “John’s food was ONLY locust and honey”, while Mathew (11:18) says, “John came NEITHER eating nor drinking.
Here, while Mark considered the ‘exact aspect’ of John’s feeding, Mathew on the other hand considered the ‘comparative’ or ‘metaphorical’ aspect .
ii. According to John (19:17) Jesus bore his cross up to the Golgotha. But according to Luke (23:26), one Simon was later on forced to carry the cross to follow Jesus. ‘A clear contradiction!! ‘, Muslims would exclaim. But the fact is that the then Jerusalem was a large and walled city and Golgotha was a place just outside Jerusalem. Normally, Jesus most have bore his cross from the Pilate’s Court to as far as outside the Jerusalem Wall and within the premises of the Golgotha before the Simon, who was not even an accused, was nevertheless forced to just take over form the apparently too fatigued Jesus to the exact crucifixion spot.
Therefore, while John ignored the ‘negligible’ contribution of Simon, Luke on the other hand, recognized it, perhaps for historical record.
Naturally, ‘INDIVIDUALITY’ and ‘CONDITIONALITY’ variously manifest any time a historical event is independently reported by different individuals and or when there is a difference of condition.
These types of situations are what Muslims simplistically referred to as contradictions in the Bible.
It should be noted, however, that the contradictions and inconsistencies in the Qur’an can not be explained in terms of ‘CONDITIONALTY’ and ‘INDIVIDUALITY’ because the Qur’an as a whole was supposedly uttered by one person (God). Of course if there exist contradictions in the direct words of God in the Bible, they likewise can not be explained in that ways. But there is non in actual sense.
Mr. Rifai pls note once again that the WORDS OF GOD in the Bible are those in red. Where they are not distinguished, you can know whose words they are from either the context or the beginning. The Bible is the Christians’ ‘Qur’an’, ‘Hadith’, and ‘Siras’ put together in one; and thus the name ‘Bible’, meaning many books. In response to Mr. IbnKhalil
Meanwhile Mr. Rifai I repeat: nobody in this World knows the precise meanings of these corrupted phrases of the Qur’an. Similarly, no one can convincingly prove that the so-called variant readings (in which phrases of some Qur’anic verses clearly differ in wordings) are not as a result of failure of the sahaba, scholars and ummah in general to agree (or reach consensus) on the likely correct reading of these vereses of the Qur’an. That logically indicates human authorship of the Qur’an.
Bi izni’Allah you will gradually know the truth and the light of Isah El-Masih (The Ever Living Jesus Christ, who has gone back to God or Allah has taken him up unto Himself, as the Qur’an says). Till I hear from you Insh’Allah.
Bilal Saeed
January 6, 2009 at 8:01 AM
1. Abbreviated LettersAlif Laam Meem, Ya Seen, Ha Meem’, etc. are known as Al-Muqattaat i.e. the abbreviated letters. There are 29 letters in the Arabic Alphabet (if hamza and alif are considered as two letters) and there are 29 surahs i.e. chapters in the Glorious Qur’an that have the abbreviated letters prefixed to them. These abbreviated letters some times occur alone, sometimes in a combination of two letters and sometimes in a combination of three, four or five letters.
a. Three surahs are pre-fixed with only one letter:
(i) Surah Sad chapter 38 with Sad
(ii) Surah Qaf chapter 50 with Qaf
(iii) Surah Nun or Qalam chapter 68 with Nun
b. The combination of two letters occurs in 10 surahs:
Three of them occur only once each:
(i) Surah Ta Ha chapter 20 has Ta Ha
(ii) Surah Al Naml starting with chapter 27 has Ta Seen
(iii) Surah Ya Seen chapter 36 has Ya Seen
Ha Meem occurs in seven consecutive Surahs from Surah 40 to Surah 46:
(i) Surah Ghafir or Al-Mu’min chapter 40
(ii) Surah Fussilat or Ha Meem chapter 41
(iii) Surah Al Shura chapter 42
(iv) Surah Al Zukhruf chapter 43
(v) Surah Al Dukhan chapter 44
(vi) Surah Al Jathiyah chapter 45
(vii) Surah Al Ahqaf chapter 46
c. There are three combinations of three letters each occurring in 14 surahs.
Alif Laam Meem occurs in six surahs
(i) Surah Al Baqarah chapter 2
(ii) Surah Ali ‘Imran chapter 3
(iii) Surah Al ‘Ankabut chapter 29
(iv) Surah Al Rum chapter 30
(v) Surah Luqman chapter 31
(vi) Surah Al Sajdah chapter 32
Alif Laam Ra occurs in six consecutive surahs: Surah 10 to Surah 15:
(i) Surah Yunus chapter 10
(ii) Surah Hud chapter 11
(iii) Surah Yusuf chapter 12
(iv) Surah Al Rad chapter 13
(v) Surah Ibrahim chapter 14
(vi) Surah Al Hijr chapter 15
Ta Seen Meem occurs in two Surahs:
(i) Surah Al-Shura chapter 26
(ii) Surah Al-Qasas chapter 28
d. Combination of four letters occurs twice:
(i) Surah Aaraf chapter 7: Alif Laam Meem Sad
(ii) Surah Anfal chapter 8: Alif Laam Meem Ra
e. Combination of five letters occurs twice:
(i) Surah Maryam chapter 19 begins with Kaf Ha Ya Ayn Sad
(ii) Surah Al-Shura chapter 42 begins with Ha Meem Ayn Seen Qaf
Surah Al-Shura chapter 42 has a double combination of abbreviated letters one set of two letters followed by one set of three letters.
2. Meanings of these abbreviated letters
The meaning and purpose of these letters is uncertain. There have been a variety of explanations offered by Muslim scholars through the ages. A few among them are:
i. These letters might be abbreviations for certain sentences and words for instance, Alif Laam Meem means Ana-Alahu -a’Laam or Nun meaning Noor (light), etc.
ii. These letters are not abbreviations but symbols and names of Allah or something else.
iii. These letters were used for rhyming.
iv. These letters have some numerical significance as the semitic letters also have numerical values.
v. These letters were used to attract the attention of the Prophet (and later his audience).
Several volumes have been written on the significance of these abbreviations.
3. Best explanation of abbreviated letters:
Of all the explanations given by various scholars, the one which is authentic and also supported by Tafsir of Ibne-Kathir, Zamakshari and Ibne-Taiymiyah is the following:
The human body is composed of various fundamental elements that are found in nature. Clay and dust are composed of the same fundamental elements. Yet it would be absurd to say that a human being is exactly the same as the dust.
We can all have access to the elements that are found in the human body, and add a few gallons of water, which is the constitution of the human body. We know the elements in the human body and yet we are at a loss when asked the secret of life.
Similarly the Qur’an addresses those people who reject its Divine authority. It tells them that this Qur’an, is in your own language, and over which the Arabs took pride. It is composed of the same letters that the Arabs used to express themselves most eloquently.
The Arabs were very proud of their language and Arabic was at its peak when the Qur’an was revealed. With the letters Alif Laam Meem, Yaa Seen, Ha-Meem, etc., (in Engllish we would say A, B, C, D) the Qur’an challenges mankind to produce a Surah at least somewhat similar to the Qur’an in beauty and elegance, if they doubt its authenticity.
Initially, the Qur’an challenges all the men and jinn to produce a recital like the Qur’an and adds that they would not be able to do it even if they backed each other. This challenge is mentioned in Surah Isra chapter 17 verse 88 and in Surah Tur chapter 52 verse 34.
Later the Qur’an repeats the challenge in Surah Hud chapter 11 verse 13 by saying produce ten surahs like it and later in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 38 produce one surah like it and finally the easiest challenge is given in Surah Al-Baqarah chapter 2 verses 23 and 24.
“And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah if your doubts are true.
But if ye cannot – and of a surety ye cannot – then fear the fire whose fuel is men and stones – which is prepared for those who reject faith.”
[Al-Qur’an 2:23-24]
To compare the skill of two artisans, they must be given samples of the same raw material and their performance evaluated in performing the same task. If they are tailors they must be provided with the same fabrics. The raw materials of the Arabic language are these letters Alif Laam Meem, Ya Seen (in English it is A, B, C, D, etc.) The miraculous nature of the language of the Qur’an does not lie only in the fact that it is the Word of Allah, but also in the fact that although made up of the same letters in which the pagan Arabs took pride, it has not been rivalled.
The Arabs are noted for their rhetoric ability, eloquence and meaningful expression. Just as the constituents of the human body are known to us and can be obtained by us, the letters comprising the Qur’an, such as Alif Laam Meem are known to us, and used frequently to formulate words. Life cannot be created by us, even if we possess knowledge of the constituents of the human body. Similarly we cannot capture the same eloquence and beauty of expression that we find in the Qur’an, despite knowing the letters that constitute the Qu’ran. The Qur’an thus proves its Divine origin.
4. Miraculous quality of Qur’an mentioned immediately after these broken letters
Therefore immediately after these broken letters are mentioned in the Qur’an, the following verses speak about the miracle of the Qur’an, and its authority e.g. in Surah Baqarah Chapter 2 verse 1-2:
“Alif Laam Meem.
This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.”
[Al-Qur’an 2:1-2]
Bilal Saeed
January 6, 2009 at 8:24 AM
Four revelations of Allah (swt) are mentioned by name in the Qur’an: the Taurah, the Zaboor, the Injeel and the Qur’an.
Taurah, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Moosa (a. s.) i.e. Moses (pbuh).
Zaboor, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Dawood (a.s.) i.e. David (pbuh).
Injeel, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Isa (A.S.) ie. Jesus (pbuh).
‘Al-Qur’an’, the last and final Wahi i.e. revelation given to the last and final Messenger Muhammad (pbuh).
It is an article of faith for every Muslim to believe in all the Prophets of God and all revelations of God. However, the present day Bible has the first five books of the Old Testament attributed to Moses and the Psalms attributed to David. Moreover the New Testament or the four Gospels of the New Testament are not the Taurah, the Zaboor or the Injeel, which the Qur’an refers to. These books of the present day Bible may partly contain the word of God but these books are certainly not the exact, accurate and complete revelations given to the prophets.
The Qur’an presents all the different prophets of Allah as belonging to one single brotherhood; all had a similar prophetic mission and the same basic message. Because of this, the fundamental teachings of the major faiths cannot be contradictory, even if there has been a considerable passage of time between the different prophetic missions, because the source of these missions was one: Almighty God, Allah. This is why the Qur’an says that the differences which exist between various religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore, misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. The Qur’an cannot therefore be seen as a scripture which competes with the teachings of Moses, Jesus and the other prophets. On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.
Another name for the Qur’an is the ‘The Furqan’ which means the criteria to judge the right from the wrong, and it is on the basis of the Qur’an that we can decipher which part of the previous scriptures can be considered to be the word of God.
Satanic Verses written by sulman rushdie contains some verses from the quran but it is illogical to say that it’s a Divine a book just because of the inclusion of a few verses. Similarly, the bible has been changed so much over the years that to call it a divine message in its entirety is wrong. A well known fact established, not by any muslim scholars but by Christian scholars as i stated earlier.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 6, 2009 at 2:49 PM
Alhamdulillah, Mr. Bilal you have now agreed that no one knows the actual meanings of ALIF-LAM-MIM; TA-SIN-MIN etc—not even the renowned Islamic Scholars. Now pls tell me Mr. Bilal: Why is it that no one can convincingly prove that the so-called variant readings (in which phrases of some Qur’anic verses clearly differ in wordings) are not as a result of failure of the sahaba, scholars and ummah in general to agree (or reach consensus) on the likely correct readings of these vereses of the Qur’an?. And does that not logically indicate human authorship of the Qur’an?
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 7, 2009 at 10:09 PM
In response to Brent Graham.
Now that you guys don’t seem to be interested in the current topics any more, let me go back to Mr. Graham’s first offensive, which was on the issue of the Biblical Son(s) of God..
BIBLICAL SON(S) OF GOD
Son(s)
In the Holy Bible, the concept of ‘son’ is not always ordinarily, biological but spiritual some times; Biblically, sonship could either be in a biological or spiritual sense. The spiritual birth or sonship is attained by only the righteous or consecrated servants of God (John 3:3-8; Gen. 6:1-4; Mathew 5:9; Romans 8:14; 2 Samuel 7:14; Jeremiah 10:20).
Son(s) of God
This is, indeed, a spiritual status (Romans 1:3-4, 8:14). That biologically, God never have a son is a fact well known among, and believed by, Christians, whose Jesus and scriptures had explicitly taught so, centuries before Muhammad was born (John 1:12-13, 3:3-8, 1 Peter 1:23-25, Luke 1:35, Luke 1:35, 6:33-36).
First Son(s) of God
Biblically, being a first son is not always in a bio-chronological sense but, at times, in status sense which is conceptualized from the fact that biological first son is CONSECRATIONAL (Luke 2:22-24; Exedos 13:2) as, indeed, is every firstling (Jas. 1:18; Exedos 13:12-16).
‘First Son of God’ is the status of any one consecrated by God. It follows that there are many First Sons of God (Hebrew 12:25; Luke 2:23, Exedos 4:22-23; Jeremiah 1:5, 31:9).
Ordinarily, Adam was the first son of God (Luke 3:38, 1Cor. 15:45). But ‘consecrationally’, Jesus is the first of all the first sons of God (Romans 8:29).
Begotten Son(s) of God
Similarly, this ‘begottenness’ is in spiritual sense; it is affirmatory to spiritual birth, which is effected simply by divine declaration. Its significance is that it makes the concept more appealing than the simpler ‘Son(s) of God’. Therefore, begotten sons of God are not thus begotten in biological sense. “You are my son. Today I have begotten you” (Pls 2:7; Hebrew 5:5; Luke 3:22).
The Only (Begotten) Son of God
Therefore, the ‘onlyness’ here is not in the ordinary numerical sense but hyperbolic; it expresses dearness and dominance of an associated quality; it is a distinctive expression of a dearly value; it means the associate ‘begottenness’ that eclipses the other ‘begottennesses’ (John 1:14, 18. Compare John 3:3-5 with 16-18 and Geneses 21:8-21 with 22:1-2).
‘Jesus’ Son of God’ Status
Therefore, Jesus being God’s Son was not just due to his miraculous birth but, his absolute saintliness and being spiritually consecrated (as there are many other God’s sons, whose first birth were, however, not miraculous).
Nevertheless, the status ‘The Only Son of God’, distinguishes Jesus from the other sons of God.
Jesus, therefore, is a unique associate Son of God through whom others can attain adaption as Sons of God (Luke 1:35; Mathew 16:16-17; Galetians 4:4; John 4:15; Col. 1:15-20; Hebrew 1:4-14).
The Difference Between ‘Son of God’ and ‘Servant of God
Every son of God is His servant; but it is not every servant of God that is His Son (Hebrew 3:5-6; Jeremiah 25:9; Mathew 5:9; Acts 3:26; 1 Cor. 7:22; Romans 13:3-4, 8:14).
Significance of the Status of Son (instead of Servant) of God
‘Son’ is a status that is more recognized than ‘Servant’. It is, therefore, of a very intelligent significance. Normally, there is a much greater love in the father-son relationship than is in the master-servant type. Psychologically, filio-parental relationship is the strongest, most appealing and, therefore, most effective (Hebrew 3:5-6, 12:5-11; John 8:35, 15;15; Proverb 3:12; Mathew 7:7-11; Luke 20:9-16; Romans 8:14-17; Isaiah 1:2-3; Hosea 1:10; Galatians 4:4-7). On the other hand, the master-servant relationship is merely concptualized from service and wages.
That is why God, the most intelligent, has chosen to relate to some of His servants as His spiritual children. In fact, only the children of God will go to heaven (John 3:3; 1 Cor. 15:50).
The Problems of the Muslims
The pre-Islamic or pagan Arabs use to believe that Allah had (biological) children (Qur’an 6:100, 16;57, 37:149, 153).
Thus, the Qur’anic or Islamic rejection of any’s being son of God was due to the localized lingual perception of the early Arab Muslims, who thought that such sonship was meant biologically, as they had wrongly believed while pagans.
You see, Christianity is the most sophisticated religion. That is why Muslims fumble whenever they apply their usually simplistic logic (such as Walamyalid Walamyilad…etc) in attacking the doctrines of Christians.
Rifai
January 8, 2009 at 12:43 AM
To Nur
“The scandal of Satanic Verses and several other scandals that characterized initial Islam have been hidden away from people like you, that is why whenever they are revealed to you you think they are fabrications aimed at discrediting Islam. But why can’t you simply verify from competent and trustworthy Islamic Scholars, the historicity of such claims”
Did u take the time to follow the link I had posted ? The historicity of such claims is easily discarded, and the article tells u why… but u pretend perhaps not see it…U see unlike ur arguments, those in the article are logically airtight.
Do u really want me to dig up some juicy contradictions in the Bible? I am sure that I can do so with a simple google search…nothing sophisticated …and then what? What do u plan to do then to answer something outside of ur handpicked contradictions?
“Christianity is the most sophisticated religion”
…maybe thats why its most central doctrine of trinity has not been convincingly explained by anyone…Which leads to wonder what exactly the regular Christian thinks of it? U do know that it was invented quite some time after Jesus (PBUH) ?
Can you explain this :
“Along with miracle working sons of God, born of a mortal woman, they were common elements of pre-Christian Pagan religion. Mithras had’em. So did Dionysus, Attis, Osiris, and Orpheus. And more.
And they had them generations—centuries— before Jesus was a twinkle in Saint Paul’s eye.”
Please do explain this resemblance with pre Christian pagan traditions…come to accept the truth….Islam has corrected and elucidated these mistakes.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 8, 2009 at 5:18 AM
In response to Rifai
History has shown that resemblance of doctrines does not necessarily imply that the newer was copied from the older. This is because believes are never mutually exclusive. Just as human beings resemble so do doctrines. That is a scientific reality. Where communities profess doctrines no matter the distance between them, there is the probability that some doctrines of one community could coincidentally and naturally resemble those of the other without necessarily being copied.
However, resemblance of doctrines of different community suggests likelihood of plagiarism. Or influence of one community on the other. This leads to further inquiry especially among inquisitive scholars. The more the discovery of evidences of influence, the more the scholars’ belief on the likelihood of imitation between the communities.
For instance, the rosary used by you Muslims is believed to have been copied from the Catholicism, an older faith which use rosary. The evidences are so strong that even some Muslims have stopped using rosary. Similarly, the Muslims who used to pray facing Jerusalem, eventually changed direction towards Kaaba, the erstwhile shrine of pagan Arabs. Not only that, most of the Islamic rituals that followed curiously resemble those of the pagan Arabs in their incredible and suggestive details. Similarly, the Christian Bible says God created the Heavens and Earth in seven days. The Qur’an, a later book in the neighborhood, too says God created Heavens and Earth in seven days. When scientists insisted that God might not have done so in seven days, that was when Muslims began to change the translation from seven days to seven periods. The Qur’an retains the inert confirmation of Christ’s divinity obviously unknowingly. There are so many examples. These evidences are what sincere scholars employ as guide and not a mere resemblance.
‘Contradictions’ in the Bible
I have explained that but I am waiting for your types of ‘contradictions’ in the Bible before I comment further.
Ahmad AlFarsi
January 8, 2009 at 9:10 AM
Hello Nur,
Before I became Muslim, I attended 4 years of theology at a Catholic high school. There we were taught by our Catholic teachers that both the Old and New Testaments contain many contradictions and have been altered from the original words of the prophets. They gave us many examples, but, to cite a few, there are different versions of many stories in the first 5 books of the Old Testament, due to 2 traditions, which often contradict one another, being recorded in these books (namely the Elohist and the Yahwist traditions). In the New Testament, one can find at least 3 different (and contradictory) historical perspectives on the account life Jesus’ life (peace be upon him), particularly the contradictions become flagrantly obvious in the post-crucifixion narratives (interestingly enough, Muslims believe Jesus was never crucified, so this makes a lot of sense to us). In particular, one will find a similar narrative in Matthew and Luke, and a markedly different narrative in Mark, and yet again a different narrative in John.
Any serious academic of Judeo-Christian texts is forced to acknowledge that the current recording of both Old and New Testaments is so far removed from the original authors (or messengers to us), that it is ludicrous to say they are preserved. I hope you become Muslim, Nur.
-Ahmad
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 8, 2009 at 9:52 PM
In response to Ahmad AlFarsi
You said you left Christianity for Islam because of contradictions in Biblical verses. But you too are an embodiment of contradiction Mr. Ahmad. If what you are saying is true why are you still a Muslim?. You suppose to have been fed up by the notorious variant readings, a phenomenon which includes variation in the wordings of phrases of some ayats of the Qur’an. Even if you can bear with the cover-up which is cleverly called variant readings, you should have been tired of another frustrating presence of corrupted statements of the Qur’an which have become: Alif-Lam-Mim; Kaf-Ya-a-In-Sad; Ta-Sin-Min; and other distorted statements whose meanings no one knows. What are you doing in Islam Mr. Ahmad; run back to Jesus!! The seeming contradictions in the Holy Bible are ironically the only surviving proofs that the Holy Bible was not a fabrication otherwise it would have been identically written by all the collaborators, but a true and historical events written independently by various individuals in addition to the statements of God. Just read my ‘THE BIBLE Vs QUR’AN-HADITH’ posted above.
On The Crucifixion of Christ
Mr. Ahmad, what the Qur’an 4:157-158 implies is that Crucifixion actually took place; but Jesus was not actually the one crucified, Allah just made the crucifixion of Jesus to appear to have taken place whereas He (Allah) Has taken Jesus up unto Himself (impliedly in secrecy). The implication of this is that those who believed that Jesus was crucified were victims of Allah’s deceit. And over 600 years after the crucifixion Allah revealed to the World through Prophet Muhammad that he misled the crucifiers to think they had crucified Jesus. Mr. Ahmad, don’t you think the Qur’an should be edited once again?! This verse is obviously an apostasy!! A’uzubillah!!
If Allah has divinely deceived the crucifiers and the rest by making the crucifixion to have seemingly taken place whereas He (Allah) had actually taken Jesus up, then who complicated matter? Is it the fooled crucifiers or the fooling Allah?
Note also that, had Jesus on the cross being a divine hypnosis etc, the intelligent God would surely have afterwards taken up the ‘real Jesus’ publically in order:
i. Not to mislead the other innocent people into wrong belief
ii. To prove to the World that the crucifixion was indeed a make-belief and
iii. Substantiate the ascension miracle (For instance, according to the Holy Bible, the disciples of Jesus witnessed his ascension to Heaven).
Likely Reason Why This Verses Were Invented
Perhaps ‘Allah’ has realized that the only way to deny such a publically witnessed event as the crucifixion of Jesus Christ is to dismiss it as a divine deceit. Wallahu alam!
So Ahmad, if you were truly once a Christian (which I doubt), you better come back to the ever living Jesus, before he comes back from God again to take us to Heaven.
Thanks
Ahmad AlFarsi
January 9, 2009 at 9:36 AM
Nur,
It doesn’t matter to me if you believe me or not, I’m just letting you know what we learned in Catholic school and from academic works on Judeo-Christian texts. Allah guides whom He wills. If Allah doesn’t guide you to Islam, at least I pray that all your children, grandchildren, and further descendants are guided to Islam. Amin.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 9, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Ahmad,
You said, before you became Muslim, you attended 4 years of theology at a Catholic high school….
COMMENT
Where is such Catholic High School?
….And that there you were taught by your Catholic teachers that both the Old and New Testaments contain many contradictions and have been altered from the original words of the prophets. And that they gave you many examples…
COMMENT
How will your Christian teachers of theology be the ones again to tell you that the Bible is not original? Why then were they teaching Christian theology? Were they there to teach you Christian theology or to teach you how not to believe the Holy Bible? Pls tell me Mr. Ahmad because the two aspects are mutually exclusive. No teachers of any faith would collectively be teaching you bad things about the fath even if the faith is truly bad.
If you want to do Taqiyya (a lie said or acted in order to promote Islam) you have to be smarter than this. I am very familiar with various forms of taqiyya that you people employed in your Daawah. In fact every Christian Arab or any Christian from Islamic background knows that most of the things you do or say are not genuine but form of taqiyya daawah. Most of the things you say or act in your dealings with Westerners –especially Americans and Europeans, are taqiyya.
Pls be yourself, natural and honest. You need not help God or His religion. He is most powerful and allknowing. Till I hear from you again. Masah’Allah.
Ahmad AlFarsi
January 9, 2009 at 3:55 PM
In south Texas. But that doesn’t matter, you can read the Vatican’s own literature and find the same message.
They taught us about the contradictions and alterations in the bible in an effort to teach us not to interpret the bible literally because it has been altered from the original. Their slogan was “it is not fact, but it is still truth.” They were staunchly opposed to “fundamentalist” readings of the bible. Such has been the position of the Catholic church from the 2nd Vatican Council (held sometime in the 20th century) onwards. Feel free to read all about it. Of course, this is also the position of any serious academic of Judeo-Christian texts. Go read the works of such departments at any university.
Also, I’m not shi’ite, so I don’t do taqiyyah…
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 9, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Ahmad, you ‘answered’ only partly. You have not told me why you, who left Christianity because of ‘CONTRADICTIONS’, have not left Islam because of ‘VARIANT READINGS’ and ALIF.LAM.MIM; KAF.HA.A.IN.SAD etc? Why are you at home with the INCONSISTENCIES in the Qur’an?
Another
What kind of theology teachers had you that could accept the simplistic criticism of the Holy Bible as CONTRADICTORY? Why have they not told you that :
The Bible comprises:
1. God’s statements (at times printed in red)
2. Prophets’/Apostles’ traditions and
3. The report of events of Biblical times?
Mr. Ahmad note this pls: In Islam, the ‘God’s statements (Qur’an) is completely separated from the ”Prophet’s/Apostles’ traditions”.
Muslims’ Ignorance
It is a pity that Muslims, who mistakenly imagine the Holy Bible to be like the Qur’an, quote the ‘reports’ and ‘traditions’ parts of the Bible in their efforts to proof that “the Bible is contradictory etc and therefore it is not God’s statements” instead of them to quote the Biblical God’s statements. Nevertheless, their arguments are normally simplistic.
ARE THERE INCONSISTENCIES AND CONTRADICTIONS IN THE HOLY BIBLE?
Unlike the Qur’an, the Bible did not come from one person. Pathetically, the Muslims mistakenly see the Bible as the Christian equivalent of their Qur’an. So, like I said earlier, they cite wrong parts of the Bible to proof that the Christian Word of God is contradictory.
Even then, logically, the seeming inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible are what confirm its genuineness. Such parts of the Holy Bible were observations and writings of VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS and under VARIOUS CONDITIONS. Scientifically, such reports are subject to INDIVIDUALITY and CONDITIONALITY unless they are edited. Therefore, this existence of ‘INDIVIDUALNESS’ and ‘CONDITIONALITY’ is logically a strong proof that the individual Biblical account have never been edited; and are not fictions in which case they would have been identically written by all the collaborators, but are true and historical events writen independently by various individuals.
Example of CONDITIONALITY
Mark (10:46-52) says that Jesus healed while LEAVING Jericho. But Luke (18:35-43) says while ENTERING Jericho. This, as a Western Reverend writer observes in his book, had been thought to be (as it is apparently) a sharp contradiction until the excavation of Earnest Sellen of the German Oriental Society (citing ‘Archeology and Bible History page 295), when it was discovered that the Jericho of Jesus’ time was a double city–Jewish (old) Jericho and Roman (modern) Jericho, such that LEAVING one could as well mean ENTERING the other.
Therefore both Mark and Luke are perfectly right. Their various versions were caused by the CONDITION of the then Jericho namely, its double-city nature.
Example of INDIVIDUALITY
Because Mark and Luke (as in the case above) did not collaborate but rather independently wrote, INDIVIDUALITY became obvious in their judgments. Thus while one of them ‘conservatorially’ regarded regarded the original (Jewish) Jericho as the (actual) Jericho, the other ‘modernly’ regarded the administrative (Roman) Jericho as (currently) the Jericho.
Other Examples
i. Mark (1:6) says, “John’s food was ONLY locust and honey”, while Mathew (11:18) says, “John came NEITHER eating nor drinking.
Here, while Mark considered the ‘exact aspect’ of John’s feeding, Mathew on the other hand considered the ‘comparative’ or ‘metaphorical’ aspect .
ii. According to John (19:17) Jesus bore his cross up to the Golgotha. But according to Luke (23:26), one Simon was later on forced to carry the cross to follow Jesus. ‘A clear contradiction!! ‘, Muslims would exclaim. But the fact is that the then Jerusalem was a large and walled city and Golgotha was a place just outside Jerusalem. Normally, Jesus most have bore his cross from the Pilate’s Court to as far as outside the Jerusalem Wall and within the premises of the Golgotha before the Simon, who was not even an accused, was nevertheless forced to just take over form the apparently too fatigued Jesus to the exact crucifixion spot.
Therefore, while John ignored the ‘negligible’ contribution of Simon, Luke on the other hand, recognized it, perhaps for historical record.
Naturally, ‘INDIVIDUALITY’ and ‘CONDITIONALITY’ variously manifest any time a historical event is independently reported by different individuals and or when there is a difference of condition.
These types of situations are what Muslims simplistically referred to as contradictions in the Bible.
It should be noted, however, that the contradictions and inconsistencies in the Qur’an can not be explained in terms of ‘CONDITIONALTY’ and ‘INDIVIDUALITY’ because the Qur’an as a whole was supposedly uttered by one person (God). Of course if there exist contradictions in the direct words of God in the Bible, they likewise can not be explained in that ways. But there is non in actual sense.
I am not a Catholic; I don’t really know how they teach. But any serious Christian theological school supposed to have taught you the nature of the Holy Bible beyond these simplistic issue of ‘CONTRADICTORY VERSES’ that Muslims who erroneously think the entire Holy Bible is to Christians God’s revelations to Jesus as the Qur’an is to them God’s revelations to Muhammad. They don’t know that the Holy Bible is to us Christians the equivalent of Qur’an, Hadith, and Sirah combined. That is why it is called BIBLE, meaning BOOKS. The Word (or revelations) of God in the Bible are at times printed in red to distinguish them from the Christian ‘Hadith’ and ‘Sirah’ which are equally in the Bible. The equivalence of Hadith and Sirah are what Muslims quote in the Holy Bible to prove that the Christians’ Word of God is contradictory. But the Muslims’ Hadith and Sirah are worst in terms of apparent contradictions.
Ahmad, if you had truly been a Christian you should go back to the way of Christ before he comes back. The desperate petro-dolar Arabs are looking for Westerners to buy into Islam. Don’t be tempted. They exploit Western liberalism while killing any of them that becomes Christian. If I can be a Christian it will not be a difficult thing for you to revert to Christianity.
Ahmad AlFarsi
January 9, 2009 at 7:10 PM
Nur, I’ve heard the above rhetoric ad nauseum, and, based on the information you are giving above, I feel quite confident that I know more about Christianity (both Protestant and Catholic doctrines) than you do (having been taught Protestantism most of my life, and having taken years of Catholic theology in high school). Thank you, but I am not in need of any education regarding Christianity… its falsehood is clearer than the light of day. I left Christianity primarily due to the absurdity of the trinity (the corruption of the bible being a secondary reason), and embraced Islam due to its perfect monotheism. I invite you to follow the way of Jesus and embrace Islam (before he comes back, so you can fight on his side). Peace be upon those who follow the guidance.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 9, 2009 at 7:16 PM
Ahmad, you still ‘answered’ only partly. You have not told me why you, who left Christianity because of ‘CONTRADICTIONS’, have not left Islam because of ‘VARIANT READINGS’ and ALIF.LAM.MIM; KAF.HA.A.IN.SAD etc? Why are you at home with the INCONSISTENCIES in the Qur’an? Pls tell me.
Ahmad AlFarsi
January 9, 2009 at 7:17 PM
Also, I don’t have any more time to argue with you, so if I don’t respond to your next rant, don’t think it means you won any sort of debate nor as any sort of strange indication of ‘keyboard victory’… it is simply that your arguments have no grounding and I don’t have time to waste on those who are not willing to listen.
Nuruddeen Lewis
January 9, 2009 at 10:12 PM
Nur el Masih Ben Haq,
I appreciate your concern for others to have correct beliefs when it comes to such a serious topic. I too am very concerned. I think that there is nothing more important than for us to figure out who we should worship. Because if we get this wrong, we will spend eternity in hell-fire. The stakes are just too high to not be concerned. And if we get it right, we will spend eternity in Paradise (heaven).
I was raised as a Christian and later made the critical decision to change my religion and become a Muslim. This was a decision that I did not take lightly and I will have to bear the consequences of my decision. I left Christianity and accepted Islam as my religion because I came to the conclusion that I should not worship Jesus. I realized that Abraham, Moses, Noah, and the other righteous persons from the Old Testament didn’t worship Jesus. Also, I realized that Jesus himself worshipped the God of Moses. From what I was able to grasp from the Bible, I came to understand that Jesus was a man. He didn’t have knowledge of all things; he ate food; he used the bathroom; he even slept. For me, I couldn’t worship anything with such characteristics. I also could not accept the fact that God, whom I believe is perfectly just, would punish someone else for my disobedience. Islam clarified all this for me.
I will have to live with my decision. You too will have to live with your decision. We will both have to stand before God on the Day of Judgment and at that point, it will be too late to change our decisions. On that Day, the truth will be made clear to everyone and the final outcomes will be in plain sight.
I pray to All-Mighty God that we both die believing and acting upon the correct creed.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 10, 2009 at 5:45 AM
In response to Nuruddeen,
Jesus is Ruhu’Allah. Allah breathed out the life of Jesus from His Ruh into Maryam, whom He (Allah) had placed above ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION for this purpose.
Obviously, Jesus was greater than Adam, yet Allah commanded His Angels to whorship Adam once HE (Allah) breaths SOMETHING out of His Spirit into Adam. And as soon as Allah breathed into Adam, who had been a lifeless moulded earth, all the Angels whorship Adam. Iblis, who refused to whorship Adam who got SOMETHING of the Spirit of Allah was cursed to become Satan the devil.
What does this tell you about Jesus who was greater than Adam?
In any cases, Christians’ greatest law is to know that there is only ONE GOD. Pls note that Jesus was not in this World to play God but to play (ideal) human being. So Jesus was not whorshiped as God.
Pls read this:
PROOF OF THE DIVINITY OF JESUS From the Koran and the Bible
God began by choosing a chaste woman, Mary (Maryam). To qualify her, He necessarily exalted her in advance ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION, for birth is the women’s GREATEST pride and, yet Mary would EXTRA-ORDINARILY give the birth that is the GREATEST of all times. See Luke 1:28, 30:34, 41-44, 48-49, and 54-55. Also says Qur’an 3:42, “….O Mary! Allah has CHOSEN thee, and PURIFIED thee, and PREFERRED thee ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION”.
After that, God settled His soul (Ruh) inside His word (Kalimat) which he had put in the womb of Mary, who had been spiritually qualified as we have seen earlier. That was how Mary conceived Jesus. That was to enable the divine attribute have human features through her for the humans to understand Him better (Hence only Jesus is Biblicaly and Qur’anically declared as GOD’s WORD and GOD’s RUH (Spirit): John 1:1, 14:8:23, Phl. 2:5-8; and the Qur’an 4:171, 2:252 etc. (By implication, Jesus’ flesh is not actually biological but God’s Word; similarly, his life is not actually human’s but from God’s own as we will see more later).
Therefore, even after his humanly birth, Jesus was declared as much superior to angels and, in fact, God said, “Let ALL God’s angels WORSHIP him (Jesus)” (Heb. 1:6; 1Pet. 3:22; Mat. 4:11), as was Adam, of course, in Qur’an 2:30-34.
Thus, apparently, Jesus was a human, the rationality and aim of his humanized birth. See Rom. 8:3-6; Heb. 2:16-18. Also, says Allah according to Qur’an 6:9, “Had We appointed an ANGEL our messenger, We ASSUREDLY had made him LIKE A MAN SO THAT HE MIGHT SPEAK TO (associate with) MEN….”
Muslims often cite John 5:30-31; Mark 13:32-33 and John 1428 etc as disproofs of Christ’s divinity. But, logically, these verses, rather than disprove Jesus’ divinity, expressed the anticipated and expected demonstrations of the character that was Jesus-in-exemplary-typical-human-nature and , therefore , in accordance with God’s programme as stated in the Qur’an 6:9 and:-
(1) Phil. 2:6, “Who (Jesus) being in very nature God, did NOT consider equality with God something to grasp, 7 But made himself NOTHING, taking the very nature of a SERVANT, being made in human likeness 8, and found in appearance as a MAN, he HUMBLED himself and became OBEDIENT to the death, even death in the cross”
(2) Heb. 2:16, “For surely it is NOT ANGELS that he (Jesus) helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 FOR THIS REASON HE (GOD) HAD TO MAKE HIM (JESUS) LIKE HIS BROTHERS IN EVERY WAY in order that……” (Compare Qur’an 6:9)
(3) Rom. 8:3, “(Jesus)….in the LIKENESS OF A SINFUL MAN……….”
So, in the light of these verses, it should be clear that Jesus’ humanized acts did not mean that he was actually a human being (John 8:23) but were the divinely designs that were to make Jesus not unnecessarily scare the humans but, rather be their SOURCE OF INSPIRATIONS.
In other words, if Jesus were to act God-the-father again even when haven purposely transformed into a man, the transformation would logically be nonsense.
The Holy Bible reveals relationship between Adam and Jesus thus, “The FIRST Adam became a LIVING SOUL, the LAST Adam (Jesus) a QUICKENING SPIRIT”, 1 Cor. 15:45. Therefore, to understand the nature of Jesus more, we must go back to the Adam’s case.
Thus, when God breathed life into Adam (Qur’an 38:73-78 and Gen. 2:7), he (God) declared him His (God’s) own IMAGE/LIKENESS (Gen. 2:7) or His VICEROY (Qur’an 2:30). Also, according to Qur’an 28:37-38, 15:39-44; 17:61-62; 7:11-13 and 2:34, Allah instructed ALL the angels to WORSHIP Adam on the ground that He (Allah) had breathed something of His SpIRIT into Adam for a soul (see Heb. 1:2-6, for the same instruction in respect of Jesus). In fact, according to these Qur’anic verses, Satan’s curse and demotion are God’s reaction to his (Satan’s) refusal to prostrate himself before Adam.
Therefore, Biblically and Qur’anically Adam, whose flesh was made from just the sand (Gen. 2:7, Qur’an 28:72), was notwithstanding such GLORIOUS initially. And, logically, the glorious qualification came from what God breathed in him.
However, Adam did not pass Satanic test but sinned (that shows some relative weakness in him), thereby lost his INITIAL STATUS and therefore was ordered out of MOST EXALTED DWELLING, the Garden of Eden(Qur’an 7:19-24, Gen. 3:1-24). But Jesus passed all the Satanic tests (Mt.4:1-11, Heb. 4:15; Qur’an 19:19), which logically implies comparative superiority in him.
Therefore, the fact that SOIL is the comparative parent of Adam, who, again, could not pass Satanic test, sinned and was demoted; and Mary, the SUPERIOR among all women, is the comparative parent of Jesus, who, again, passed all the Satanic tests, did not sin and therefore was NEVER demoted, given that both Adam and Jesus got their souls unbiologically from God directly; it follows that whatever type of soul God gave Adam was originally INFERIOR to the one He gave Jesus. Thus Jesus would still have been superior to Adam even if he (Adam) had been able to defend his INITIAL STATUS, (and thus Jesus was very superior to the demoted Adam (and, by the way, EXTREMELY superior to Adam’s descendants including MUHAMMAD, whom Allah found STRAY: Qur’an 12:3, 93:6-8).
So if initially Adam, made from soil, was inter-alia, QUALIFIED to be God’s IMAGE/LIKENESS (Biblically) or GOd’s VICEROY and WORTHY OF A WORSHIP BY THE ANGELS OF GOD (Qur’anically), all because his soul was God-breathed, then Jesus, who has much greater of these qualifications and miraculousness (Bible, Qur’an 5:113), is logically divine.
Thus to Jesus’ divinity God did order the angels to worship; indeed, only divinity can be worshiped (Mt. 4:8-10; Qur’an 16:36; Heb. 1:2-6).
That was why when Jesus was asked to disclose God he said, “Have I been with you so long and yet you do not know me…? He who has seen me has seen the Father (God); how can you say, ’show us the Father?..I do not speak on my (the human) authority, but the Father who DWELLS IN ME DOES HIS WORKS”, John 14:8-10.
That is why Jesus was Biblically likened to (or understood to be) The Great Spirit Priest, Melchizedek who (being a spirit), has no biological father, mother, genealogy and dates of birth and death, but remains an eternal priest; Heb. 7:1-3, (i.e. the genealogy and date of birth of the ever living Jesus were but symbolic as earlier seen).
And, that is why when Jesus accomplished his mission on the Earth naturally, he went back to where he came from, Qur’an 4:158, “God has raised him up unto HIMSELF”. See also John 6:28, 62, and Mk. 16:19. John 8:23.
Yes! Jesus is, according to both the Bible and the Qur’an, back to his origin, God.
This brings us to the issue of TRINITY. However, I will only discuss the aspect of Trinity that is relevant to the question of the Divinity of Christ. Later I will explain TRINITY in detail because now I have a pending work.
The TRINITY
The term ‘Trinity’ is not of Biblical origin but the concept is. Thus, as any Biblically foreign word, it is not necessary to employ it in particular in whatever situation. However, the word ‘Trinity’ is relevantly expressive, thus it was employed as a term by some Bible interpreters just because it was the best word that simply expressed the ONENESS of the Almighty God, His soul in a born human body, and His soul when , or as, not inside a body. Thus:
1. God-the-FATHER, means the ALMIGHTY God.
(Deut.32:6; Mt.5:48,6:9-14; 1Cor.8:4-6)
2.God-the-SON, means the SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God inside His (GOD’S) WORD, which was physically born as a human body. (Col. 1:15, 19; John 1:1, 14-18, 17:5; Phil. 2:5-7; Mt. 1:18; Isa. 9:6; John 14:10; Pls. 82:6)
3. God-the-HOLY-SPIRIT, means just SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God, i.e. when, or as, not inside any bodily form. (John 4:24; MK. 3:28-29; Job 33:4; Gen.. 1:2; Pls. 139:7-12; Hab 3:3; 2Cor. 3:17-18). .
Thank you
Nuruddeen Lewis
January 10, 2009 at 1:24 PM
Hi Nur,
Is there any way you can simplify this for me? It’s just too much for me to really grasp the essence of what you’re saying.
I did see that you said that Jesus was not to be worshipped and that he was supposed to serve as an ideal human being. I think our beliefs are very similar. Even to this day, Jesus serves as example for me that I should follow, as do all the other righteous Prophets and Messengers. I think they all were sent to serve this purpose. We should try to follow their way as best we can. This also includes worshipping the one God they worshipped.
Nur, maybe our beliefs aren’t that different from one another after all, (just like our first names). But maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 10, 2009 at 3:55 PM
In response to Nuruddeen,
SIMPLIFICATION
You said Jesus was a man he should not be whorshiped. I agree; only divinity should be whorshipped. That was why Allah commanded Angels (There were no human beings then) to whorship Adam as soon as He (Allah) breathed SOMETHING out from His Spirit into Adam (Qur’an 28:37-38, 15:39-44; 17:61-62; 7:11-13 and 2:34). Adam was not God but he was whorshipped on the instruction of Allah because of SOMETHING (a divine element) from the Ruh of Allah that became Adam’s soul. Or why do you think Allah instructed Angels to whorship Adam once He breathed His Ruh into Adam?
Now, Jesus is Qur’anically RUHULLAH. Allah breathed His Ruh into Maryam who had been placed above ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION (Qur’an 3:42) so that she would be qualified to give birth to Jesus. The Ruh Allah breathed into Maryam as soul of Jesus was logically greater than the one He breathed into the mould of earth that becme the living Adam, who was whorshipped. If Adam was whorshipped on the instruction of Allah, then Christ is spiritually divine even though physically human.
But like I told you, Christians’ greatest law is to know that there is only ONE GOD. Pls note that Jesus was not in this World to play God but to play (ideal) human being. So Jesus was not whorshiped as God even though He (Jesus) was spiritually, logically and scripturally DIVINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pls don’t pretend not to understand this too. Be honest in your respond and if you eventually become convinced that what I am telling you is true, just go back home—go back to Jesus before he comes back to take us to where he is right now! Nuruddeen, you will come back to Christ (Al-Masih) bi izni’Allah!!
Ahmad AlFarsi
January 10, 2009 at 5:20 PM
Nur, you have serious misconceptions about Islam. Allah never ordered the angels to worship Adam! That is the most twisted interpretation of the Quran I have ever heard! He ordered them to prostrate to him a prostration of respect, not a prostration of worship.
Nuruddeen Lewis
January 10, 2009 at 8:19 PM
Hi Nur,
I think the spirit that God breathed into Adam and into Jesus is the same spirit that was breathed into all of us. In my understanding, all human beings have a spirit that was created by God, but that doesn’t make us all divine.
Also, it’s hard to understand how you say that Adam and Jesus were both divine, but they were also human beings. But then you say that you should only worship ONE God.
Also, you said you agree that Jesus should not be worshipped, and only divinity should be worshipped. But then you say that Adam and Jesus were divine. I’m confused. If you don’t want to clarify it, that’s fine. My confusion about your beliefs doesn’t really matter. It is you who should have a crystal clear understanding of it.
I believe that divinity only belongs to God. Maybe this is where we differ. I’m not trying to fight with you, as I believe that it’s a personal decision to decide whom you will worship. Because ultimately, you will have to live with the consequences, whether good or bad. I’m just trying to grasp what it is you believe about who should be worshipped.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 11, 2009 at 4:56 AM
In response to Ahmad AlFarsi
In secular World we say, “Prostration of Respect”, but in religious World we say, “Whorship” because Qur’anically and Biblically only divinity deserves the prostration of others. If you are a true Muslim you should not prostrate before any one other than Allah. Don’t be misled, the Angels of Allah prostrated to Adam because of the divine element in his original Ruh. Wallahu aalam.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 11, 2009 at 6:36 AM
In response to Nuruddeen,
The Ruh (Spirit) that God breathed into Jesus was greater than the one He breathed into Adam.
Note that:
i. The woman that was to bear Jesus, Maryam, had to be promoted ABOVE ALL WOMEN OF CREATION because of that Spirit in baby Jesus. And the flesh of Jeus was KALIMATULLAH.
ii. Whereas Adam failed Satanic test and therefore failed, Jesus prevailed and was said not to have committed any sin at all.
iii. Allah has taken Jesus up onto Himself, after Jesus’ mission on Earth (Qur’an 4:158; John 6:28, 62). Whereas Adam is in the grave.
iii. In summary, Adam was a moulded earth that got ‘something’ from the Ruh of Allah, while Jesus was Kalimatillah placed in the most blessed woman in the World who (the Kalimatullah) got Ruhullah.
Again, our spirits are lower and different from those of Jesus and Adam because:
i. We the ‘descendants of Adam’ are not the descendants of original Adam, but the spiritually demoted Adam. Nevertheless, we inherited some qualities. That is why human beings are extremely wonderful creatures of God.
ii. We inherited the Spirit of the sinned Adam, the demoted Adam who was failed by sin.
iii. If our spirits and that of Jesus were the same, there would have not been any need for Allah to give Jesus another Ruh and in an unprecedended way, when he could get it from Maryam, his mother, the same way we got ours from our parents.
Pls Nuruddeen, I did not say Adam and Jesus were both divine. I said Adam was whorshipped because of the divine element in the Ruh (Spirit) that Allah breathed into him. But that Jesus is divine because he is RUHULLAH. But that Jesus did not come to this World to be whorshipped nor to play God, but to demonstrate to us how to live as ideal human beings.
You said also that you believe divinity only belongs to God. You are absolutely right. That is why the divinity in the Ruh of Jesus came from non other than God. Similarly, Adam was whorshipped not as Adam but because of the divine element in the Ruh (Spirit) Allah breathed into him.
Nuruddeen, pls read my “PROOF OF THE DIVINITY OF JESUS From the Koran and the Bible” that I posted earlier in this forum. You would understand better.
Thanks
Nuruddeen Lewis
January 11, 2009 at 9:28 PM
Hi Nur,
So Adam is part-human and part-God and Jesus is also part-human and part-God, but the God-part in Jesus is better than the God-part in Adam because Jesus’ mother was awesome? You must see why I’m having trouble understanding this.
In your post on Jan. 10 @ 3.55pm, you said that we shouldn’t worship Jesus, so why does the God-part in Jesus or Adam matter?
Also, are you saying that Adam’s God-part changed when he sinned?
I don’t believe that humans inherit their spirit from their parents. Muslims are taught that the spirit is breathed into the embryo 120 days after conception. This spirit comes from God, just as the spirit that was breathed into Adam and Jesus. I’m not sure if you’ll agree with me, but this is what Islam teaches.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 12, 2009 at 3:48 PM
In response to Nuruddeen,
Mr. Nuruddeen, don’t Para-phrase my statements with the aimed of deviating from the crux of the matter. I did not say Jesus and Adam were partly human and partly God. And don’t be scared of saying “Because Mary has been place ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION”. Mellowing it down to “awesome” will never change the fact because they are in black and white in the Qur’an and the Bible. What I said was:
i. The woman that was to bear Jesus, Maryam, had to be promoted ABOVE ALL WOMEN OF CREATION because of that Spirit in baby Jesus. And the flesh of Jesus was KALIMATULLAH.
ii. Whereas Adam failed satanic test and therefore failed, Jesus prevailed and was said not to have committed any sin at all.
iii. Allah has taken Jesus up onto Himself, after Jesus’ mission on Earth (Qur’an 4:158; John 6:28, 62). Whereas Adam is in the grave.
iii. In summary, Adam was a molded earth that got ’something’ from the Ruh of Allah, while Jesus was Kalimatillah placed in the most blessed woman in the World who (the Kalimatullah) got Ruhullah.
Again, our spirits are lower and different from those of Jesus and Adam because:
i. We the ‘descendants of Adam’ are not the descendants of original Adam, but the spiritually demoted Adam. Nevertheless, we inherited some qualities. That is why human beings are extremely wonderful creatures of God.
ii. We inherited the Spirit of the sinned Adam, the demoted Adam who was failed by sin.
iii. If our spirits and that of Jesus were the same, there would have not been any need for Allah to give Jesus another Ruh and in an unprecedented way, when he could get it from Maryam, his mother, the same way we got ours from our parents.
Spirits (souls) of Living Things
Of course, in the simplistic context that you have taken solace, every spirit came from God. But even that does not mean they are the same; having the same source does not necessarily mean being the same. The spirits of animals and the spirit of human beings came from God. But that does not mean that the both spirits are the same. With due respect, your spirit may not be necessarily of the same nature with my own.
Secondly, even if all spirits are the same, God has clearly qualified and distinguished even the processes of breathing the Ruh for Jesus and SOMETHING of the Ruh for Adam:
i. For that of Adam He said it must be preceded with prostration of Angels. And we know only divinity deserves the prostration of others. So, like I said earlier, the Angels did not prostrate to the person of Adam, for that would amount to shirk. They prostrated to the divine element in the Ruh which Allah breathed into Adam.
ii. For that of Jesus, God breathed His Ruh in His Kalimat which God had placed in a woman whom He promoted ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION. Wallahu aalam.
Nuruddeen Lewis
January 12, 2009 at 4:31 PM
Hi Nur,
You agreed with me that Jesus should not be worshipped. I understand that you believe the spirit in both Adam and Jesus is divine, and that Jesus’ spirit is better (or more-divine maybe?) than Adam’s. Although I don’t agree with you on this, why does it matter if you don’t worship Adam or Jesus?
Like you, Muslims don’t worship Adam or Jesus. However, most Christians do. Do you consider yourself a Christian? Who do you worship?
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 12, 2009 at 6:44 PM
In reponse to Nuruddeen,
Let me repeat: Jesus did not come to this World to be worshipped but to act out an ideal human being for us, the real human beings, to emulate. Those simply said to be worshipping Jesus, they actually worship God in spirit. That is, they worship the divine Ruh in Jesus meaning they actually worship God through Jesus, His Ruh (Spirit)/Word. But, considering:
i. How Allah instructed His Angels to prostrate before SOMETHING of His Spirit through Adam, it should be clear that it is not a sin to worship God through Jesus, His Spirit/Word.
ii. How Muslims worship God through the Famous and Sacred Black Stone of Kaaba, it should be obvious that it is not a sin if some Christians worship God through Jesus, His Ruh/Kalimat.
In other words, with the episodes of Adam and Kaaba at the back of His mind, a true Muslim should not sincerely be surprised that some Christians worship God through Jesus, His Spirit/Word.
Whom Do I Worship?
The greatest Christian Commandment is to know that there is ONLY ONE GOD and to love Him (God) with all our mind and all our strength and all our…..The second is to love our neighbour as we love our selves. So, I worship the one and only one God, Yahweh.
Thanks
Nuruddeen Lewis
January 12, 2009 at 7:19 PM
Hi Nur,
We agree that Jesus should not be worshipped, but you (or Christians in general) worship God through Jesus because of the divine spirit in him.
But you also say that there is a divine spirit in Adam, so is it fine for the Christians to worship God through Adam also?
I hope you see what I’m getting at. One should not worship God through anything or anyone.
Many people say they worship God through statues. But in actuality, they are bowing down to stones. Likewise, you may think Christians worship God through Jesus, but in reality, they are worshipping a human being, who was born, ate food, used the bathroom, and will die.
It makes more sense to me to worship God directly.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 12, 2009 at 7:58 PM
In response to Nuruddeen,
When Adam Had SOMETHING from Ruh’Allah, only Angels were in existence. So, God instructed only Angels to prostrate to Adam in Spirit. Before Adam born human beings he had already sinned and got demoted to the present human level. It follows that the element of Ruh’Allah breathed into Adam was originally inferior to the Ruh’Allah breathed into Jesus, the only ‘human being’ that prevailed over the devil and sin.
You said “One should not worship God through any thing or anyone”. Why then do you Muslims worship God through the Famous, Sacred Black Stone of Kaaba? Why don’t you actually worship God directly say, by looking towards heaven etc? Is Kaaba, a stone that was worshipped by the pagan Arabs, a better channel through which to “directly” worship God than Jesus, Ruh’Allah/Kalimatullah? Certainly not!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nuruddeen Lewis
January 12, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Hi Nur,
So the divine portion in Jesus is better than the divine portion in Adam? Can divinity have different levels?
To me, such statements seem so obvious to not have come from God. It’s too confusing. The true religion of God should be applicable to all people at all times, not just those who can do acrobats in their minds with abstract concepts.
Of course Muslims don’t worship the Black Stone. We pray in the direction of the black stone. And that’s just during the established prayers. The reason Muslims do this is because God commanded them to do so. Outside of the prayer, we supplicate to God in any direction we choose.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 12, 2009 at 9:02 PM
In response to Nuruddeen
It was at God’s discretion to breath a less of His Ruh to Adam and a full of His Ruh to Jesus. Note that whereas Qur’an said Allah breathed His Ruh to Jesus, it says Allah breathed SOMETHING of His Ruh to Adam. So, the levels of the two Ruhs are different. That is why the Bible says God created Adam in His (God’s) image and likeness but directly says Jesus was divine.
Allah is every where. So, in absolute context of the tauhid which you were trying to sell to me, you should worship Him (Allah) without prostrating before any structure. Or are you saying that God is inside Kaaba? Certainly that is not what you mean. So, God is every where.
By the way, why did you Muslims faced Jerusalem initially only to change towards Kaaba? Are you, Nuruddeen, not suspicious of that?
Liberate yourself Nuruddeen. Christ is coming back.
A Sister
January 12, 2009 at 10:40 PM
To Nur…
Muslims are liberated – and all praise belongs to Allaah, our Lord and your Lord. We believe in Jesus – may peace be upon him – and his coming back; and we believe in all the other messengers that came before him, as well as the messenger and prophet he (Jesus) told us would follow him (i.e. Muhammad peace be upon him). We also believe in all the scriptures that were sent to us by God. Allow us to invite YOU to be liberated, and believe in Islaam.
We prostrate to Allaah alone. The “structure” of the Ka’bah is not worshipped. Allaah says in the Qur’aan (the translation of the meaning):
The Ka’bah is the first place of worship ever built and dedicated to the worship of ONE God (Allaah), and we face it in our prayers – as per His orders (in the verses to come). This provides a sense of “unity” for humans all around the globe, facing in ONE direction and submitting to ONE God. Some say it also symbolizes how the worship of ONE God is central to our lives.
As for the change of direction of the Qiblah, here is a translation of meanings of the Qur’aanic verses that talk about the issue… [and may I add, “Nur”, how similar your question is to the questions that were asked way back when! Thankfully, they were answered by Allaah in the revelation.]
May you be guided to the truth.
Nuruddeen Lewis
January 13, 2009 at 3:22 AM
Hi Nur,
If you believe that a part of God is in Adam, then why not worship him also? This is the problem with your argument.
Muslims do not believe that God is everywhere. We are taught that God is above the heavens and the earth, completely separate from His creation.
It has become apparent that you are unaware of the most important and basic aspects of Islam. Therefore, I suspect that your bad opinion of Islam is based on false information.
You may find that after studying Islam objectively, sincerely seeking to understand the truth about your Creator, that its teachings will fit perfectly with your natural beliefs, if God wills it. For me, Islam made perfect sense. It was definitely the best thing that has ever happened in my life.
May our Creator guide us both to the truth and allow us to die in a state that is pleasing to Him.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 13, 2009 at 6:31 AM
ADAM
Like I told you before, when Adam Had SOMETHING from Ruh’Allah, only Angels were in existence. So, God instructed only Angels to prostrate to Adam in Spirit. Before Adam born human beings he had already sinned and got demoted to the present human level. It follows that the element of Ruh’Allah breathed into Adam was originally inferior to the Ruh’Allah breathed into Jesus, the only ‘human being’ that prevailed over the devil and sin.
MY KNOWLEDGE OF ISLAM ETC
Mr. Nuruddeen, with due respect, I know Islam much better than you. This became manifest from the way you argue. No wonder, you are a Western convert to Islam. Let me tell you my brother Nuruddeen, what made me embraced Yesua Al-Masih is not a small thing.
You said Muslims do not believe that God is every where. Which Muslims are you talking about? Is it the Muslims of your Western World? If so they can be pardoned because they don’t know Much about Islam. They just jumped into Islam perhaps out of curiosity and adventure which are all permitted in the free West, unlike our part of the World where conversion to Christianity attracts death penalty.
Mr. Nuruddeen in Islam, there are two fatwas about the location of God. Some schools of thought posit that Allah is in Heveans above the Earth. Others maintain that Allah is not limited by time and space and as such He is every where. The later makes more sense to me. If you say God is only in Heveans above the Earth, you are confining Him to Al’arsh. If you say He is every where, you impliedly agree that He as an entity is on the Al’arsh, but spiritually He abounds every where. That is because God is actually beyond measure of any kind. Wallahu aalam.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 13, 2009 at 6:45 AM
In response to ‘A Sister’
The Qur’an says Allah instructed Muslims to change the Qibla from the one He had earlier instructed Muslim to face (Jerusalem) to a new one, Kaaba. Kindly furnish me with the verse in which Allah gave the first instruction to Prophet Muhammad to direct Muslims to face Jerusalem while praying.
Thank you sister
A Sister
January 13, 2009 at 11:04 AM
Nur,
Since you claim to have knowledge of Islam, I assume that you already know that the Qur’an is not the only form of revelation in Islam; rather, the Sunnah complements it. The Prophet – peace be upon him – was ordered by Allaah to face bayt al-Maqdis in prayers at first; this remained as such until 16 or 17 months after his Hijrah to Madeenah, as indicated by Saheeh ahaadeeth such as the one reported by al-Baraa’ ibn ‘Aazib in al-Bukhaaree:
Before the hijrah (i.e. at the beginning, while still in Makkah), it is reported by Ibn Abbaas as narrated by Ahmad that the Prophet – peace be upon him – used to face Jerusalem while also keeping the Ka’bah in front of him. However, that was not possible once the hijrah to Madeenah took place, so he faced Jerusalem – not the Ka’bah – for 16-17 months before the order came from Allaah to face the Ka’bah. The reason the Prophet sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam longed to face the Ka’bah is that it is the qiblah of Ibraaheem – who was a haneef and the father of the Prophets, and as we already mentioned it was the first sacred house of worship to be built. And Allaah knows best.
Now, in the verses which I have already presented, one of them – along with what I mentioned from hadeeth – indicate what you asked for. In verse 143 of Soorah 2 (al-Baqarah), a portion of it says in Arabic…
I don’t know if you know Arabic, but it’s important to look at the Arabic not the translation – the translation doesn’t do justice [and I apologize to you because I realize how lacking the translation I presented to you earlier is!]. It says “ja’alnaa” this indicates that Allaah is the one who ordained the Qiblah they were facing before “allatee kunta ‘alayhaa” (i.e. facing Bayt al-Maqdis in Jerusalem)…so Allaah explains that the reason the previous Qiblah was ordained is to test those who believe and follow the messenger from those who will turn away…
So in Summary…
1. Hadeeth indicates that the first Qiblah is Bayt al-Maqdis; and since the Sunnah is revelation (see verse: وما ينطق عن الهوى) we know that the Prophet must have been instructed to do so; otherwise he wouldn’t have done it.
2. The aayaat in the Qur’aan itself indicates that Allaah did order a DIFFERENT direction before the Ka’bah, which the Prophet used to face (i.e. Bayt al-Maqdis).
I hope I was clear.
A Sister
January 13, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Nur,
I do not have time to read your discussion from the beginning, but the little I read is quite…interesting?! (Can’t find a better word for it!)
How can you make a statement such as this
How can you say that one “element” of Ruhullaah (whatever “element” means!) is “inferior” to another??? Do you believe that God has imperfections or parts that are inferior to others??? I am shocked.
And just for your info, Prophet Muhammad – peace be upon him – was a human being (no quotes around it) and he prevailed over the devil and sin by the will and protection of Allaah…for he was ma’soom.
Also, for your info, the angels did NOT prostrated to Adam out of worship! Rather, they prostrated to Adam in a type of greeting/honouring; and since it was in obedience to a command of Allaah, it was in fact an act of worship to Allaah on the part of the angels, not to Adam. For more info, see: http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/8492
The Ka’bah is not a stone that was worshipped by the pagan Arabs. The Arabs had IDOLS which the placed in and around the Ka’bah and they worshipped God along with their idols there.
And I think we already established that we do not pray to the Ka’bah nor use it as a medium or channel by which we “reach” God or communicate with Him; rather it is just a direction established by Him in order for us to be unified during our prayers. When we pray we do not call upon the Ka’bah to save us or to deliver us or to deliver our prayers to God.
…
As for your comments about God being everywhere, and how misinformed we “Westerners” are to think that Allaah is above His ‘Arsh…this is laughable. Many people in the “East” share this “peculiar” belief of ours. Perhaps you live among ashaa’irah? It is funny that you disagree with God being above His ‘Arsh and you make the suggestion:
!!! Why didn’t you suggest we look down, or right, or left…or better yet…spin around!
Check this out: http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/992/
…
Mr. “Nur”, with all due respect, I’m sorry to say that you do not know Islaam much better than our brother Nuruddeen! You might know more (mis-)info here and there; however, it is quite manifest from the way YOU argue that you THINK you know more than you actually do. At least our brother Nuruddeen knows whatever “little” (as you claim) he knows and he actually practices it – alhamdulillaah. May Allaah grant him steadfastness upon the deen. Aameen.
…
Finally Nur…
I really invite you to leave all the baggage you have about Islaam outside, and read it and study it properly from authentic sources. We believe in One God – like you say you do – and we believe in Jesus as a blessed and honourable messenger of Allaah. I have a collection of verses as a gift for you…please do read them.
More to follow in shaa’ Allaah.
A Sister
January 13, 2009 at 12:15 PM
Continuation and note…
[[I meant to separate some of the aayaat from different suwar in the first batch of the ‘gift’ into separate ‘blockquote’s but I had forgotten…and I can’t edit it unfortunately]]
…
May you be guided to the truth; and if you’re here not to learn, but to call us to what you’re upon…then please leave.
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 13, 2009 at 7:26 PM
In response to ‘A Sister’
My dear sister, I agree that Allah is reported in the Qur’an to have said that He instructed Muslims to pray towards Jerusalem and that He was the one who instructed them to change the Qibla to Kaaba.
Now, if there was any occassion in the Prophethood of Muhammad when Allah instructed Muslims to pray towards Jerusalem the details of the ORIGINAL instruction should be in the Qur’an. If such ORIGINAL detail is not in the Qur’an then:
i. Had Prophet Muhammad forgot to recite it to the faithfuls?
ii. Was it mistakenly removed or forgotten?
iii. Simply, why is it that it was when ‘Allah’ wanted Muhammad to change the Qibla to Kaaba that He was reported to have been the one that gave the two instruction?
PROOF OF THE DIVINITY OF JESUS From the Koran and the Bible
God began by choosing a chaste woman, Mary (Maryam). To qualify her, He necessarily exalted her in advance ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION, for birth is the women’s GREATEST pride and, yet Mary would EXTRA-ORDINARILY give the birth that is the GREATEST of all times. See Luke 1:28, 30:34, 41-44, 48-49, and 54-55. Also says Qur’an 3:42, “….O Mary! Allah has CHOSEN thee, and PURIFIED thee, and PREFERRED thee ABOVE ALL THE WOMEN OF CREATION”.
After that, God settled His soul (Ruh) inside His word (Kalimat) which he had put in the womb of Mary, who had been spiritually qualified as we have seen earlier. That was how Mary conceived Jesus. That was to enable the divine attribute have human features through her for the humans to understand Him better (Hence only Jesus is Biblicaly and Qur’anically declared as GOD’s WORD and GOD’s RUH (Spirit): John 1:1, 14:8:23, Phl. 2:5-8; and the Qur’an 4:171, 2:252 etc. (By implication, Jesus’ flesh is not actually biological but God’s Word; similarly, his life is not actually human’s but from God’s own as we will see more later).
Therefore, even after his humanly birth, Jesus was declared as much superior to angels and, in fact, God said, “Let ALL God’s angels WORSHIP him (Jesus)” (Heb. 1:6; 1Pet. 3:22; Mat. 4:11), as was Adam, of course, in Qur’an 2:30-34.
Thus, apparently, Jesus was a human, the rationality and aim of his humanized birth. See Rom. 8:3-6; Heb. 2:16-18. Also, says Allah according to Qur’an 6:9, “Had We appointed an ANGEL our messenger, We ASSUREDLY had made him LIKE A MAN SO THAT HE MIGHT SPEAK TO (associate with) MEN….”
Muslims often cite John 5:30-31; Mark 13:32-33 and John 1428 etc as disproofs of Christ’s divinity. But, logically, these verses, rather than disprove Jesus’ divinity, expressed the anticipated and expected demonstrations of the character that was Jesus-in-exemplary-typical-human-nature and , therefore , in accordance with God’s programme as stated in the Qur’an 6:9 and:-
(1) Phil. 2:6, “Who (Jesus) being in very nature God, did NOT consider equality with God something to grasp, 7 But made himself NOTHING, taking the very nature of a SERVANT, being made in human likeness 8, and found in appearance as a MAN, he HUMBLED himself and became OBEDIENT to the death, even death in the cross”
(2) Heb. 2:16, “For surely it is NOT ANGELS that he (Jesus) helps, but Abraham’s descendants. 17 FOR THIS REASON HE (GOD) HAD TO MAKE HIM (JESUS) LIKE HIS BROTHERS IN EVERY WAY in order that……” (Compare Qur’an 6:9)
(3) Rom. 8:3, “(Jesus)….in the LIKENESS OF A SINFUL MAN……….”
So, in the light of these verses, it should be clear that Jesus’ humanized acts did not mean that he was actually a human being (John 8:23) but were the divinely designs that were to make Jesus not unnecessarily scare the humans but, rather be their SOURCE OF INSPIRATIONS.
In other words, if Jesus were to act God-the-father again even when haven purposely transformed into a man, the transformation would logically be nonsense.
The Holy Bible reveals relationship between Adam and Jesus thus, “The FIRST Adam became a LIVING SOUL, the LAST Adam (Jesus) a QUICKENING SPIRIT”, 1 Cor. 15:45. Therefore, to understand the nature of Jesus more, we must go back to the Adam’s case.
Thus, when God breathed life into Adam (Qur’an 38:73-78 and Gen. 2:7), he (God) declared him His (God’s) own IMAGE/LIKENESS (Gen. 2:7) or His VICEROY (Qur’an 2:30). Also, according to Qur’an 28:37-38, 15:39-44; 17:61-62; 7:11-13 and 2:34, Allah instructed ALL the angels to WORSHIP Adam on the ground that He (Allah) had breathed something of His SpIRIT into Adam for a soul (see Heb. 1:2-6, for the same instruction in respect of Jesus). In fact, according to these Qur’anic verses, Satan’s curse and demotion are God’s reaction to his (Satan’s) refusal to prostrate himself before Adam.
Therefore, Biblically and Qur’anically Adam, whose flesh was made from just the sand (Gen. 2:7, Qur’an 28:72), was notwithstanding such GLORIOUS initially. And, logically, the glorious qualification came from what God breathed in him.
However, Adam did not pass Satanic test but sinned (that shows some relative weakness in him), thereby lost his INITIAL STATUS and therefore was ordered out of MOST EXALTED DWELLING, the Garden of Eden(Qur’an 7:19-24, Gen. 3:1-24). But Jesus passed all the Satanic tests (Mt.4:1-11, Heb. 4:15; Qur’an 19:19), which logically implies comparative superiority in him.
Therefore, the fact that SOIL is the comparative parent of Adam, who, again, could not pass Satanic test, sinned and was demoted; and Mary, the SUPERIOR among all women, is the comparative parent of Jesus, who, again, passed all the Satanic tests, did not sin and therefore was NEVER demoted, given that both Adam and Jesus got their souls unbiologically from God directly; it follows that whatever type of soul God gave Adam was originally INFERIOR to the one He gave Jesus. Thus Jesus would still have been superior to Adam even if he (Adam) had been able to defend his INITIAL STATUS, (and thus Jesus was very superior to the demoted Adam (and, by the way, EXTREMELY superior to Adam’s descendants including MUHAMMAD, whom Allah found STRAY: Qur’an 12:3, 93:6-8).
So if initially Adam, made from soil, was inter-alia, QUALIFIED to be God’s IMAGE/LIKENESS (Biblically) or GOd’s VICEROY and WORTHY OF A WORSHIP BY THE ANGELS OF GOD (Qur’anically), all because his soul was God-breathed, then Jesus, who has much greater of these qualifications and miraculousness (Bible, Qur’an 5:113), is logically divine.
Thus to Jesus’ divinity God did order the angels to worship; indeed, only divinity can be worshiped (Mt. 4:8-10; Qur’an 16:36; Heb. 1:2-6).
That was why when Jesus was asked to disclose God he said, “Have I been with you so long and yet you do not know me…? He who has seen me has seen the Father (God); how can you say, ’show us the Father?..I do not speak on my (the human) authority, but the Father who DWELLS IN ME DOES HIS WORKS”, John 14:8-10.
That is why Jesus was Biblically likened to (or understood to be) The Great Spirit Priest, Melchizedek who (being a spirit), has no biological father, mother, genealogy and dates of birth and death, but remains an eternal priest; Heb. 7:1-3, (i.e. the genealogy and date of birth of the ever living Jesus were but symbolic as earlier seen).
And, that is why when Jesus accomplished his mission on the Earth naturally, he went back to where he came from, Qur’an 4:158, “God has raised him up unto HIMSELF”. See also John 6:28, 62, and Mk. 16:19. John 8:23.
Yes! Jesus is, according to both the Bible and the Qur’an, back to his origin, God.
This brings us to the issue of TRINITY. However, I will only discuss the aspect of Trinity that is relevant to the question of the Divinity of Christ. Later I will explain TRINITY in detail because now I have a pending work.
The TRINITY
The term ‘Trinity’ is not of Biblical origin but the concept is. Thus, as any Biblically foreign word, it is not necessary to employ it in particular in whatever situation. However, the word ‘Trinity’ is relevantly expressive, thus it was employed as a term by some Bible interpreters just because it was the best word that simply expressed the ONENESS of the Almighty God, His soul in a born human body, and His soul when , or as, not inside a body. Thus:
1. God-the-FATHER, means the ALMIGHTY God.
(Deut.32:6; Mt.5:48,6:9-14; 1Cor.8:4-6)
2.God-the-SON, means the SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God inside His (GOD’S) WORD, which was physically born as a human body. (Col. 1:15, 19; John 1:1, 14-18, 17:5; Phil. 2:5-7; Mt. 1:18; Isa. 9:6; John 14:10; Pls. 82:6)
3. God-the-HOLY-SPIRIT, means just SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God, i.e. when, or as, not inside any bodily form. (John 4:24; MK. 3:28-29; Job 33:4; Gen.. 1:2; Pls. 139:7-12; Hab 3:3; 2Cor. 3:17-18). .
Thank you
Nur el Masih Ben Haq
January 16, 2009 at 1:00 PM
In response to A Sister
Trinity, my dear sister, is the other issue in your last comment. I hereby post my comment on it.
ISLAMIC (ABANDONED) TRINITY
The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, was born in a pagan community that, besides many other deities, believed in threesome Gods: Al-lat, Manat, and Uzza. According authoritative Islamic Traditions Prophet Muhammad and, therefore, Islam initially declared its recognition of the ‘deityship’ of these pagan Gods (or Goddess) via a supposed Allah’s revelation to Muhammad that, according to ‘hoarded’ Hadith, went thus:
Qur’an 53:13, “And he (Muhammad) saw him (angel Gabriel) yet
Another time.
14. By the lote-tree at the furthest boundary.
15. Near unto which is the Garden of Abode.
16. When that which covers the tree does cover it.
17. The sight turned not aside, nor did it extend beyond the
Limit.
18. Indeed he saw some of the greater signs of his Lord
19. Have ye seen al-lat and Uzza?
20. And Manat the third one besides?
* These are the Exalted Gharaniq (Damsels)
* And verily their intercession (with Allah) is to be hoped
For”
When the pagan Arabs heard such a Qur’anic endorsement of their deities, they massively converted to Islam. But that the story of their conversion was so exaggerated that the Muslim refugees confidently returned home from Abyssinia (Ethiopia).
The returnee refugees and Muhammad himself were disappointed to discover that the story of the massive conversion was largely a hoax. The angry Muhammad then withdrew his recognition of the deityship of the Three Goddesses and blamed Satan for making him include in the recitation false words, “ *These are the Exalted Gharaniq. *And their intercession (with Allah) is to be hoped for.
Thus Muhammad expunged these “Satanic Verses” (as they are now called by Muslim scholars) and replaced them with a supposed reaction from Allah:
21.” What! For you the *male sex, and for Him (Allah) the
Female?
22. Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
23. These are nothing but names which ye have devised, ye
And your fathers……”
(*Allah supposedly rejected the pagans’ recognition of Him, at this stage, as being the father of the three goddesses) See Hadith al-Gharaniq al-Ula gorren from al-Waqidi, ibn Hantab, Abu Jaafar Ibn at-Tabari etc for details.
I know many Muslim readers would dismiss this as lies because must of these sensitive issues are hidden away from them. But whoever cares to do research on this or ask renowned Islamic scholars will be shocked to discover that the “Satanic Verses” scandal is a historical fact.
In fact , the nature of the early chapters of the Qur’an tends to confirm the historicity of the ‘Satanic Verses’ scandal for, as Encyclopedia Britanica puts it 15 page 342 puts it, “ (In the Qur’an) strangely enough, there is NO REFERENCE TO THE ONENESS OF GOD (The premier Islamic doctrine now) in these early chapters. According to one tradition, on one occasion Mohammed even acknowledged the relative authorities of three goddesses: Al-lat, Manat and Uzza, but later on abolished the passage in which the reference occurred” said the Encyclopedia
Thus Islam’s belated attack on Christianity with respect to the TRINITY is just a cover-up to this scandal of an attempt to ‘Trinitinize’ the three pagan Arab goddesses which (the attempt) failed.
Christian TRINITY does not imply three Gods at all. It is a logical and scientific phenomenon that expresses the three major ways that personifies Himself.
Needless to say, the greatest Christian Law is the perfect belief in the oneness of God (Mk. 12:28-32; 1 Cor. 8:3-6; Jms. 2:18-21) So, Christianity had been teaching about the ONENESS OF GOD several centuries before the advent of Islam. Then Biblically what is Trinity?
CHRISTIAN TRINITY
The term ‘Trinity’ is not of Biblical origin but the concept is. Thus, as any Biblically foreign word, it is not necessary to employ it in particular in whatever situation. However, the word ‘Trinity’ is relevantly expressive, thus it was employed as a term by some Bible interpreters just because it was the best word that simply expressed the ONENESS of the Almighty God, His soul in a born human body, and His soul when , or as, not inside a body. Thus:
1. God-the-FATHER, means the ALMIGHTY God.
(Deut.32:6; Mt.5:48,6:9-14; 1Cor.8:4-6)
2. God-the-SON, means the SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God inside His (GOD’S) WORD, which was physically born as a human body. (Col. 1:15, 19; John 1:1, 14-18, 17:5; Phil. 2:5-7; Mt. 1:18; Isa. 9:6; John 14:10; Pls. 82:6)
3. God-the-HOLY-SPIRIT, means just SOUL-of-the-Almighty-God, i.e. when, or as, not inside any bodily form. (John 4:24; MK. 3:28-29; Job 33:4; Gen. 1:2; Pls. 139:7-12; Hab 3:3; 2Cor. 3:17-18).
Since in the Old Testament time God demonstrated His kind of ‘spirito- allotropy’: (Let US, OUR image, OUR likeness, one of US: Gen. 1:26, 3:22, Jer. 23:23), and also Qur’an 2:1, 6:9 ete.
In fact not only Muslims –especially my friends Kabiru Inuwa and Muhammad Kabir Muhammad etc, Jehovah Witness and the Jews too should realize that the concept of “God-The-Son” scripturally predated the times of Jesus Christ (Pls. 82:6; John 10:34-38); likewise “God-The-Father” (Deut. 32:6); and “God-the-Holy-Spirit” (Job 32:4, Pls 139:7-12).
It is, therefore simplistic to think that Christian Trinitarian concept originated from paganism just because the pagans had ‘similar’ doctrine before the word ‘Trinity’ was employed by some Bible interpreters. Pagan ‘Trinity’ differs from the Christian own in the sense that it has always referred to three entities whereas that of Christian referred to only one entity who acted in three ways.
Science also suggests the possibility of the Christian TRINITY. Thus: some matters can exist in many physically different capacities and chemically remain their exact selves nevertheless. See ALLOTROPY. Allotropy is the EXISTENCE OF AN ELEMENT IN MANY PHYSICALLY DIFFERENT CAPACITIES AND CHEMICALLY REMAINS IT EXACT SELF, just as Trinity is the EXISTENSE OF THE GOD IN THREE PHYSICALLY DIFFERENT CAPACITIES BUT SPIRITUALLY REMAINS HIS EXACT SELF. Of course, if matter can exhibit such a rare capacity as the allotropy, how much more can the creator himself do? Hence the exceptional ‘allotropy’, the Trinity.
Therefore, those who think the TRINITY necessarily implies three Gods simply because 1+1+1=3 and not 1 are just simpletons, as science has once again, shown. You know, Christianity is a religion that makes you to think more about the complexity of life, reality, relativity, time and space etc.
Comforter for ever with truth
February 23, 2009 at 6:00 PM
Brother Nur, with your way of presentation, it is evident that you have no idea of Quran and Islam. You are just using the same technique of bombarding quotations (100% out of context), so as to force people believe, the way you want. This is a typical ORIENTALIST PROPAGANDA TECHNIQUE. You are pretending to have good knowledge of Islam & giving your critical view. But unfortunately all these quotations have been in use for years by Orientalists. And it only helped accelerating the pace of spread of truth of Islam. No doubt, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world (to confirm, you google it and find out). Why so? Because Allah has preserved his completed religion from distortion & He guides whom he wishes (especially those who love Allah, righteous and seek his help). I still pray Allah to guide you and me & make us Muslim (in it’s proper sense) i.e. one who submits his WILL to Allah (God the Almighty) likes Jesus and Mohammad (peace be upon them). See Bible…[John 5:30 -“I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.] ..this is the definition of muslim.
All the quotations which you have pasted cannot be explained in this comment window because all of them have been misquoted, mispresented and many a times presented to give just opposite meaning by the Orientalists. As you stressed too much on the Quranic abbreviated letters(e.g alif laam meem..) to be something very awkward, unholy, singled out to be something which distort the very essence of Quran ( the book free of contradictions and divine beyond doubt ). To make you understand I will have to give you things in little detail because when others presented the fact you just tried to win them over by telling that ”SO IT DOESNOT HAVE MEANING” especially you wrongly used the muslims’ total trust, praise and obedience to Allah (swt) especially when they tell “ALLAH KNOWS BEST”. Brother, every muslim even if he is 100% sure, he would at the end surely say ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST (even if it is as simple as 2+2=4). Because Allah, the Almighty, all knower, all powerful, full of all wisdom. We acknowledge him. This does not mean that what we are telling is wrong. It is our way of praising the Almighty (which you have been misutilizing). Now we will see the truth related to abbreviated letters in Quran.
Comforter for ever with truth
February 23, 2009 at 6:10 PM
To start with: I say the same thing i.e. these letters (i.e. alif laam meem etc ) have no specific obvious meaning (of course according to our understanding and logic but ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST ). So, why are they present there in this divine book?
Million dollars question!
To make you clear I want to quote few verses of Quran.
1. Quran Surah Ibrahim ch14 verse 4 : We sent not an Messenge except with the LANGUAGE OF HIS PEOPLE, in order that he might make (the Message) clear for them. Now God leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom .
2. Quran Surah Mariam ch19 verse97 : So have We made the (Qur’an) easy in THINE OWN TONGUE, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention.
So this last testament of God has been sent in local language of the people from whom the last messenger belonged (in local Arabic tongue not in any new ?divine tongue). Also it is present in poetic style, as evident from text. And with contemporary Arabic poetic presentation and rhymes, so as to make it more simple for them.
It was a common practice of the time, even before and after Mohammad (pbuh) to begin the poetry in this fashion. To make it simple for you to understand, there is something comparable in other languages (esp.eastern languages) e.g. in urdu language poetry, poet usually puts his name with in text and amazingly MOST of the times even without any meaning or sense. See below few sentences of one poem (of one of the great poet of urdu poetry) of Mirza Ghalib.
English transliteration: “Baqshe hai jalwa-e gul zoq-e tamasha GHALIB / Chashm ko chahiye har rung mein wa hojana”
Translation: [It’s compelling beauty makes all men
Enjoy the glory of the bloom;
But the eye should take in every view,
The brighter shades, the shades of gloom.]
Want to check yourself click this link …( http://www.angelfire.com/sd/urdumedia/coup1.html)
See “GHALIB” is there in the actual poem, but in translation this (word Ghalib) is not present as it does not make any sense. Ghalib is supposed to be one of the all time great thinker and poet of urdu literature. No body ever raised question why Ghalib did so (May be now you can raise this issue). Similarly when it comes to the Arabic poetric presentation of Quran, NO BODY of that period (even till few centuries later) did object on this issue, not even NON MUSLIMS. Prophet (pbuh) himself had many dialogues with Jews and Christian missionaries and non of them asked for this. You bring me one sentence or evidence of that time of NON MUSLIMs who objected on this matter. It is an issue created by Orientalists who lacked the knowledge of Arabic and dependent on translations to dig out big thing out of nothing. Even among the companions (who were so eager) who did not leave even minor issues (of Quran, fiqh and other issues like how to sleep, eat, and even defecate) never asked for the same as they were well aware of this style of Arabic presentation.
Did you get the point or not? If not please re-read it.
So in brief it was a contemporary Arabic style of presentation.
But in Quran it has been used in more sensible ways as it is a book beyond human indulgence. For example..
(A). In most of the places these letters are beautifully supporting the divine heart soothing rhyme with it’s PHONETIC balance.
e.g. See the following English transliteration of these verses..
I.Quran Surah Baqrah ch 2:
1. Alif La_m Mim
2. Za_likal kita_bu la_ raiba fihi hudal lilmuttaqin
II.Quran Surah Mariam ch19:
1.Ka_f ha_ ya_ ‘ai in ssa_d
2.Zikru rahmati rab bika ‘abdahu_ zakariy ya_
III. Quran Surah Ta Ha ch20:
1. Tha_ ha_
2. Ma_ anzalna_ alaikal qur a_na litasyqa_
IV. Quran Surah Yaseen ch 36:
1. Ya_ sin
2. Wal qur a_nil hakim
That is why, most of the times different letters and different combinations have been used ( i.e. sometimes Alif Laam Meem, Qaaf, Ha Meeem, TaHa, Nun) which makes the rhythm real divine.
(B). When these letters have been used to start chapter it is mostly mentioned in the coming paragraph regarding the book and it’s quality especially regarding it’s divinity.
e.g. See the coming verses..
I.Quran Surah Baqrah ch 2
1..Alif La_m Mim
2. This is the BOOK; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear God;
II.Quran Surah Mariam ch19
1. Ka_f ha_ ya_ ‘ai in ssa_d
2. A MENTION (in this book) of the mercy of thy Lord unto His servant Zachariah
III. Quran Surah Ta Ha ch20
1. Tha_ ha
2. We have not sent down the QUR’AN to thee to be (an occasion) for thy distress
IV. Quran Surah Yaseen ch 36
1. Ya_ sin
2. By the QUR’AN full of Wisdom
If you still THINK it to be not divine (then you just silently listen it’s recitation by Abu Bakr AshShatri or Imaam of Mecca or whichever is easily available) or if you still ASK the same question i.e. what is it’s meaning? You just re-read my explanation and seek God’s help. Inshallah He will guide you. And at the end, AND ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST.
I’m sorry brother if my words did hurt you.
Nur-el-Masih Ben Haq
February 23, 2009 at 6:24 PM
In response to ‘Comforter for ever with the truth’
Is the relative fast growth of Islam miraculous as muslims claim?
For any thing to be said to be a miracle it must be extra-scientific or super natural. But the alleged fast growth of Islam is neither super natural nor extra-scientific. Factors responsible for that are well known to social scientists and careful general public. So, it is not miraculous.
The following are among the factors:
i. Relative saturation of Christianity
ii. Relative high rate of birth among the Muslims
iii. Killing of apostate among other severe acts of resisting other religions
iv. Un-reciprocated freedom of expansion that Islam enjoys in the Christendom.
v. The petrodollar funded project of locating and Islamizing vulnerable Westerners
vi. Silently reserving unconditional charity activities to the Christian West, while spending tremendous amount on quantity-driven daawah
vii. Use of fear to scare encroachment, cow faithful and attract the resultant ‘safety refugees’ .
viii. Inducement of Western scientists to ‘discover’ wonderful sciences in the Koran in order to easily lure the gullible into Islam.
The above factors, more than any other things else, appear to be the
‘miracle’ behind the alleged fast growth of Islam. Otherwise tell me how Islam can grow without these factors.
Amad
February 23, 2009 at 6:50 PM
Nur, typical Islamophobic arguments.
Forget everything, let’s talk just about America or the West in general. Everyone here is free to do whatever they want… yet you hardly find a Muslim converting to other faiths. While there is a convert to Islam on every corner. This is just a fact and it belies all the convenient reasons that you have laid out.
You talk about Westerners as if they are kids, waiting to be brainwashed by Muslim missionaries, YET you forget the fact again. The people who are spending tons more money than petrodollars will ever catch up to, are Christian missionaries. These missionaries who go to remote, poor parts of the world to convert Hindus, Muslims or whoever they can feed or clothe. YET, despite these efforts, very few are bribed into becoming Christians. On the other hand, the dawah of Muslims is usually non-professional, voluntary work, and success rate is still so high.
Whatever you believe the truth is, is up to you. But don’t deceive yourself about the FACTS. The FACT is that there is a much stronger tendency and trend of people becoming Muslims. And the opposite is just not true, even normalizing for difficulty factors. Accept the fact, and then move on to find out why. If you can’t get past facts, you are never going to get to a solution (which I claim doesn’t exist, but at least you will move past delusion)
Nur-el-Masih Ben Haq
February 23, 2009 at 6:51 PM
In response to ‘Comforter for ever with the truth’
How qualitative is the quantity that turns to Islam ‘NUMEROUSLY’?
What types of minds and brains are we told enter Islam in dropes daily? Are the great Western scientists and other ‘great men’ that convert to Islam sincere? Why have they not developed the Ummah?
It is common to hear Muslims boosting that Isalm is the fastest growing religion in the World.
While EuroMerican governments and abled Western individuals spend huge amount of money on scientific researches and charities, on the other hand, the desperate Muslim governments and individual rich Muslims spend stupendous amounts on conversion of any unproductive light-skinned Westeners and African American etc to Islam–especially if the convertee was once prominent before he became a liability like Micheal Jackson etc. This wasteful daawah has more than likely contributed to the alarming uderdevelopment in the Islamic World. That was why a concerned Muslim raised the below alarm.
“Happy 1430 Hijria.
Happy? But situations in the Muslim world is still sad as it was
500 years ago since we relaxed our quest for knowledge. Because
of that influence and power shifted to the Christian world – and have
remained there ever since.
The figures are speaking themselves very loudly but we refuse to
listen. Some thoughts – Extracts of speech by Hafez A.B. Mohamed.
Director-General, Al Baraka Bank.
Demographics:
o World Jewish population: 14 million
o Distribution: 7m in America
5m in Asia
2m in Europe
100 thousands in Africa
o World Muslim population: 1.5 billion
o Distribution: 1 billion in Asia/Mid-East
400m in Africa
44m in Europe
6m in the Americas
o Every fifth human being is a Muslim.
o For every single Hindu there are two Muslims
o For every Buddhist there are two Muslims
o For every Jew there are 107 Muslims
Yet the 14 million Jews are more powerful than the
entire 1.5 billion Muslims…
Why..?
Here are some of the reasons.
Movers of Recent History
o Albert Einstein – Jewish
o Sigmund Freud – Jewish
o Karl Marx – Jewish
o Paul Samuelson – Jewish
o Milton Friedman – Jewish
Medical Milestones
Vaccination needle: Benjamin Ruben – Jewish
o Polio vaccine: Jonas Salk – Jewish
o Leukaemia drug: Gertrude Elion – Jewish
o Hepatitis B: Baruch Blumberg -jewish
o Syphilis drug: Paul Ehrlich – Jewish
o Neuro muscular: Elie Metchnikoff – Jewish
o Endocrinology: Andrew Schally – Jewish
o Cognitive therapy: Aaron Beck – Jewish
o Contraceptive pill: Gregory Pincus – Jewish
o Understanding of human eye: G. Wald-Jewish o
Embryology: Stanley Cohen – Jewish
o Kidney dialysis: Willem Kloffcame – Jewish
Nobel Prize Winners
In the past 105 years, the 14 million Jews have won 180
Nobel prizes whilst the 1.5 billion Muslims have achieved only 3
Nobel winners.
Inventions that changed History o Micro-processing chip: Stanley Mezo – Jewish
o Nuclear chain reactor: Leo Sziland – Jewish
o Optical fibre cable: Peter Schultz – Jewish
o Traffic lights: Charles Adler – Jewish
o Stainless steel: Benno Strauss – Jewish
o Sound movies: Isador Kisee – Jewish
o Telephone microphone:Emile Berliner – Jewish
o Video tape recorder: Charles Ginsburg-Jewish
Influential Global Businesses
o Polo: Ralph Lauren – Jewis
Coca Cola: – Jewish
o Levi’s: Levi Strauss – Jewish
o Starbuck’s: Howard Schultz – Jewish
o Google: Sergey Brin – Jewish
o Dell Computers:Michael Dell – Jewish
o Oracle Computers: Larry Ellison: – Jewish
o DKNY: Donna Karan – Jewish
o Baskin Robbins Irv Robbins – Jewish
o Dunkin’ Donuts: Bill Rosenberg – Jewish
Influential Policy-makers/ Politicians
o Henry Kissinger , US Sec. of State – Jewish
o Richard Levin, President Yale University Jewish
o Alan Greenspan , US Federal Reserve – Jewish
o Joseph Lieberman , US Senator – Jewish
o Madeleine Albright , US Sec. of Stat – Jewish
o CasperWeinberger , US Sec. of DefenceJewish
o Maxim Litvinov , USSR Foreign Minister-Jewish
o David Marshal , Singapore Chief Ministe Jewish
o Isaac Isaacs, Gov-Gen. Australia- Jewish
o Benjamin Disraeli, British Statesman – Jewish
o Yevgeny Primakov, Russian PM – Jewish
o Barry Goldwater , US Politician – Jewish
o Jorge Sampaio, President of Portugal – Jewis
o Herb Gray, Canadian Deputy PM – Jewish
o Pierre Mendes, French PM – Jewish
o Michael Howard, British Home Sec. – Jewish
o Bruno Kriesky, Austrian Chancellor – Jewish
o Robert Rubin , US Sec. of Treasury – Jewish
Global Media Figures
o Wolf Blitzer, CNN – Jewish
o Barbara Walters, ABC News – Jewish
o Eugene Meyer , Washington Post – Jewish
o Henry Grunwald, Time Magazine – Jewish
o Katherine Gra
2 weeks ago
Additional Details
o Katherine Graham , Washington Post- Jewish
o Joseph Lelyeld, New York Times –
Global Philanthropists
o George Soros – Jewish
o Walter Annenberg – Jewish
Why are they powerful and why are Muslims powerless?
Here’s another reason… We have lost the capacity to produce
knowledge.
o In the entire Muslim world (57 Muslim countries) there are only
500
universities
o In USA alone, 5,758 universities
o In India alone, 8,407 universities Not one university in the entire Islamic World features in the Top
500 Ranking Universities of the World
o Literacy in the Christian world – 90%
o Literacy in the Muslim world – 40%
o 15 Christian-majority countries’ literacy rate – 100%
o Muslim-majority countries with 100% – None
o 98% in Christian countries completed primary education
o Only 50% in Muslim countries completed primary education
o 40% in Christian countries attended University
o In Muslim countries,a dismal 2% attended university
o Muslim-majority countries have 230 scientists per million
o The USA has 5000 per million
oTheChristian world-1000 technicians per million
o Entire Arabworld-only50 technicians /million
o Muslim world spending on R&D-0.2%of GDP
o Christian world’s R&D – 5.0% of GDP
Conclusions
The Muslim world lacks the capacity to produce knowledge…..
Amad
February 23, 2009 at 6:57 PM
Nur: Warning. If you don’t stop your insulting rants that have nothing to do with the topic, and just typical stuff you find on Islamophobic site, then your future comments will be moderated. I am sure you have many sites that you can spew your garbage on.
Nur-el-Masih Ben Haq
February 23, 2009 at 7:32 PM
In response to ‘Comforter for ever with the truth’,
What I am saying is that had ALIF-LAM-MIM etc been revealed in these forms during the time of Prophet Muhammad, naturally one of the Sahabas would have asked him their meaning, and he would have had to explaine. Or what do you think?
Comforter for ever with truth
February 24, 2009 at 4:37 PM
Brother Nur, I think we were discussing Islam and Quran not the muslims (Please stick to the topic). As regarding your two doubts on my post-
1. Islam being the fastest growing religion:
So you accept this fact. Now about your reasoning:
(I) What do you mean by saturation? – You mean if majority will be on right track, they need to switch the track (only because they are saturated) . Sorry brother! I think no body will support you for this. Now peoples are more learned and according to your data, westerners are much more learned. So it is good for Islam. Now they can read the scriptures and search the truth and that is the reason they are coming to Islam. Very simple.
(II) One of the country where Islam is growing fastest is America (plz. Verify from American official websites). How many American muslims have big family? And amazingly when you see the populous country like India (my country), there, the average family size of muslims are less than those of Hindus (? Amazing, you must verify from Indian government census). So your this reasoning doesn’t stand in the present scenario.
(III) How many apostate being killed in America?
(IV) I agree with you that there is freedom of religion in most developed countries and even in India. But I think this is for everybody in America and other countries not only for those who want to convert to Islam.
(V ), (VI) & (VII) : I think we muslims are nowhere in missionary work compared to Christian missionaries. That is the truth you can see in any part of the world, whether a village of India or war battered Iraq or a poor African country. I think you are well aware of the scandal of distribution of Arabic bible along with relief fund late last month.
(VII) Who is using the strategy of fear and encroachment – Saudi Arabia or America or Israel. No prize for guessing.
(VIII) Credit goes to Quran to have those wonderful facts otherwise Bible was easily available to them for the same.
2. You mean these abbreviated letters are late interpolation.
This is the fact to be checked. As you going through your facts regarding scores of scriptural interpolation in Bible (more than 2000 manuscripts and no two are same) and many many different versions (not translation ) of your holy book , it is obvious to have such impression about others. BROTHER YOU WILL NOT GET ANY TWO BOOK OF QURAN (OF COURSE ARABIC) WITH A DIFFERENCE OF A SINGLE WORD. Why? Because Allah himself promised to preserve (Quran Surah Al-Hijr ch 15 verse 9), as it was the completed and last testament meant to abide with us for ever. As far as your doubt regarding presence of these letters during the time of Sahaba you must click the link below…
( http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Mss/topkapi.html )
to see the manuscript copy at the Istanbul library, Turkey. See the Picture- e, seventh line from below towards left hand corner just left to Bismillah ar Rahman ar raheem You can very easily see “Alif Laam Meeem” is written in Arabic (begining of Surah Ankabut Ch 29) as it present now in Quran. You can take help of any muslim or any person knowing the Arabic to verify. Even in the discussion there, they doubt it’s period to be of either of Uthmaan time or Umayyad time, luckily both periods belong to Sahaba.
I think all your doubts should be clear now. Brother you are welcome to clarify your doubt, but one by one. So that I can try to do justice with the topic. AND ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST.
james
March 13, 2009 at 12:09 PM
Great post, People need to read this.
Nur-el-Masih Ben Haq
March 13, 2009 at 5:59 PM
In response to Comforter Forever With the Truth.
Why do authoritative Muslim sources imply that the Koran was tampered with?
Of course, no Muslim would directly admit that the Koran was tampered with. However, several Sahabas (Muhammad’s Companions) have implied so by default, apparently not knowing the eventual implications of their actions.
(i) Sahih Muslim
Book 008, Number 3421:
”A’isha (Allah be pleased with, her) reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Qur’an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) died and it was before that time (found) in the Holy Qur’an”
(ii) Malik’s Muwatta, Book 8, No. 8.8.26:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from al-Qaqa ibn Hakim that Abu Yunus, the mawla of A’isha, umm al-muminin said, “A’isha ordered me to write out a Qur’an for her. She said, ‘When you reach this ayat, let me know, “Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and stand obedient to Allah.”‘ When I reached it I told her, and she dictated to me, ‘Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr prayer and stand obedient to Allah.’ A’isha said, ‘I heard it from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.’”
(iii) (Sahih Bukhari 4:69 ): Narrated Anas bin Malik:
For thirty days Allah’s Apostle invoked Allah to curse those who had killed the companions of Bir-Mauna; he invoked evil upon the tribes of Ral, Dhakwan, and Usaiya who disobeyed Allah and His Apostle. There was reveled about those who were killed at Bir-Mauna a Quranic Verse we used to recite, but it was cancelled later on. The Verse was:
“Inform our people that we have met our Lord. He is pleased with us and He has made us pleased.”
(iv) Sahih Al-Bukhari 8:816 Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas:
Umar said, “I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, “We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book,” and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession.” Sufyan added, “I have memorized this narration in this way.” ‘Umar added, “Surely Allah’s Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him.”
(v) Ibn Majah, Volume 2, Page 39, Narated A’isha:
The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper
(vi) Al-Muttaqi ‘Ali bin Husam al-Din in his book “Mukhtasar Kanz al-‘Ummal” printed on the margin of Imam Ahmad’s Musnad, Volume 2, page 2, in his hadith about chapter 33, said that Ibn Mardawayh reported that Hudhayfah said:
‘Umar said to me ‘How many verses are contained in the chapter of al-Ahzab?’ I said, ’72 or 73 verses.’ He said it was almost as long as the chapter of the Cow, which contains 287 verses, and in it there was the verse of stoning.
(vii) Hadhrath Umar said at the Saqifa that the Qur’an has 1,027,000 letters”.
“Tafsir al Itqan” by as Suyuti, page 88
The present Qur’an has 267,033 letters. According to Hadhrath Umar’s research the Qur’an should have approximately 90 parts.
The implication of all these is that, either:
a. Sahih Muslim and Sahih Buhari are not ‘Sahihs’ or
b. Bukhari and Muslim lied or
c. A’isha lied or
d. The Koran has actually been tampered with .Do you have any contrary view
Brent
April 19, 2009 at 2:10 AM
as-salaamu’alaikum,
I did not know my simple article could inspre so much discussion.
I ask God almighty to bless us with beneficial knowledge, manners of the prophets and messengers, and closeness to Him almighty!
Nur-el-Masih Ben Haq
May 15, 2009 at 7:32 PM
I wished you were involved in the discussion. Can you generate another one pls? Thank you.
Brent
April 19, 2009 at 2:17 AM
If you would like to read more of my stuff, please go to http://www.godconscious.worpdress.com
Keep up the good work Muslim Matters!
Brent
April 19, 2009 at 2:21 AM
Sorry – http://wwww.godconscious.wordpress.com
C F E with truth
April 25, 2009 at 6:36 AM
Brother Nur, as you have pasted the typical Shia comment on Quranic tahrif, it just reminds me of one verse of Quran (ch3 verse103), where Allah is telling us to hold the rope of Allah and be united and guided. But unfortunately, we didn’t. We have a deviant Shias, who forgot this verse when they were misguided by Jews and hypocrites (Jews were very advanced in this skill also). They TRIED to pollute the purest thing on this earth i.e. Quran. Even with their utmost effort, since then (till now) Quran and Islam well prevailed. This all started just after the departure of prophet and climaxed at the time of death of Caliph Usmaan, followed by war .i.e. “Great Fitna”. Alhamdulillah, Allah preserved his religion and shias emerged clearly as a deviant sect, whom most muslims don’t even consider muslim. But we should not paint them all with the same brush as they have many sects and many beliefs. We have no time to go into the details of that.
Prophet (pbuh) left two things with us i.e. Quran & His traditions (Hadiths).
1. Quran: As it was meant for ever, it had to be preserved. And God took the responsibility (Quran 15:9) of preserving it IN THE HEART of people. And Quran has been preserved IN THIS FASHION since it’s arrival till now and there are always supporting medias like leaves, stones, papers and now digital. Prophet (pbuh)in his life time dictated it to the people and was memorized by many sahabas as well as written on leaves etc. this is amazing book as this whole book can be memorized and can be reproduced very easily by even simple layman and I would not boast that there are four persons in my family who have memorized the whole Quran. And you will not get a single person(among christian) leave the lay man, even Pope who would have memorized even the whole new testament word by word the way God did through us. Miracle in itself and amazingly, majority of them are non arabs. Not only the Prophet (pbuh) dictated but also arranged the whole Quran in the way we have now. Rightly guided Caliph just collected the dispersed manuscripts and copied them into a Mushaf (compilation) IN ACCORDANCE WITH WHAT THEY HAD IN THEIR HEART.
What was the need for this? 2 important reasons-
a. People who had memorized were dying and was feared that with their death it may be lost.
b. For easy reference in case of any doubt of any kind. Specially at that time there was jew incursion and satanic influences and rumors, which were creating doubts among peoples regarding the verses, recitation, composition etc. (As you have quoted above).
So Caliph Usmaan called most of the peoples who had memorized Quran along with all the manuscripts available (many were incomplete) and The Quran was compiled on paper and 7 copies were made which were sent to different governors. NOBODY PROTESTED, NEITHER ALI NOR AISHA NOR ABU DARDA NOR IBN UMAR (PEACE BE UPON ALL OF THEM) AS IT WAS IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROPHET’S TEACHING. This brought the end of all the doubts regarding any aspect of The Quran. And all the previous manuscripts irrespective of whether eaten by goat or mite, were either burnt or engraved.
And now you are quoting the stories of what happened before this compilation. This is called as quotation out of context.
And since then we have this mushaf (compiled Quran) on paper and now even on computer and internet also. But you will not find a difference of single word in any two inscribed quran of anytime since it’s compilation, till now in any part of the world (imagine 1400 yrs). Even at late, Shias tried to alter the Quran according to their taste by misquoting the same as we discussed above, but they could not be successful and they ended up only to be a distinct deviant group of innovators.
continued…..
C F E with truth
April 25, 2009 at 6:40 AM
continued….
2. Hadiths: After the “Great Fitna” Shias and the hypocrites started attributing anything and everything to prophet (pbuh). Then the need was felt to verify them and filter them. They adopted the same technique of verifying through the chain as it was done at the time of prophet (pbuh) and they set up certain criteria for the same .e.g. truthfulness of the narrator, Period of presence of narrators, mental status narrators, their lifestyle etc. they worked very hard and they collected even the biographies of the narrators. Many books of hadith were collected and six of them are together called Sihah Sittah (the six authentic ). Even though they were called authentic still they had many weak hadiths in them e.g. there are many weak traditions present in Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah etc. so why were they called the authentic six? It was a scholarly use of the term because the life history and details of all the narrators in these books are present in one compiled book to be verified at any time for their authenticity. That is why even centuries later, in the last century many hadiths from Sihah sittah were filtered by one renowned scholar of hadith Nasruddin Albani (rahamatullah alaih). Study of hadith is a big field and based on evidences and legitimate proofs, that is why called the science of Hadith. It is not the way the Bible gets it’s revision; few scholars will sit and they will scrutinize the so called manuscripts and add and delete from the supposed book of God. Even among Sihah sittah, two are even called as Sahih (authentic by name) i.e. Bukhari and Muslim. And they must be credited for their hard work. Out of millions of hadiths they collected, only few thousands were selected to be kept in their compilation (strictly based on the criteria). And weak traditions were filtered out mostly. It was a slap on the face of innovators as they could no longer fool people with their hadiths (innovated). And that is the reason why Shias don’t like Bukhari, Muslim (for Hadith compilation) and Caliph Usman (for Quranic compilation) and Aisha (for supporting Usmaan in his noble work) and since then Shias have been alleging them with many false charges by misquoting and lying.
In the study of Hadith, it is the chain of narrators which is thoroughly examined and was a major concern to the scholars of hadith. Chain of narrator consisted of human beings. (we accept this fact and don’t believe blindly that everything is inspired by God unlike our Christian brothers. It does not matter to them, even what the author wrote in the Bible, they firmly believe everything is from God e.g. Luke 1:1-4, he wrote that what he heard from eyewitnesses he was writing , still our Christian brothers believe that Gospel was not heard version but revealed version ). And as these hadiths were collected 200-300yrs after the departure of Prophet and many narrators are involved, there is a chance of forgetfulness or mistake even if the narrator is authentic. We believe that these two Sahihs are authentic esp. when you see as a whole, but if you see with scholar’s eye it never means that every word of hadith are as authentic as those of The Quran.
There are many instances in the sahihs which seems contradicting. So they should be examined with regard to all the aspects like the time of that hadith, situation, the person, the motive etc. And after considering all these, scholar gives verdict regarding the hadith and its inference. And to make it more clear every word of hadith can’t be said to be 100% acceptable (as it appears to a layman ) even if they are from the authentic books. One hadith in Bukhari seems to tell that the Prophet (pbuh) was contemplating suicide in the beginning of revelation, when it stopped for some time (nouzbillah). We Muslim consider it blasphemy if taken in the literal sense. No scholar & even layman accept this to be a fact even though it is written in Bukhari. Why? Because it is against the prophet’s basic teaching and he predicted hell for the person who commits suicide. There are many ways to explain this hadith and none showing this literal meaning. For details, you consult the scholar or at least the student of Islamic studies (Not the Deviants). In case, it is your next question tell me. Inshallah I’ll try to give you the fact. And to no surprise, the suicide rate In Saudi Arabia is least in the world not amazing if it is 90:1 between Israel and Saudi Arabia. No scholar of Islamic history even contemplated committing suicide esp. even if he is already having this hadith with him. Why? They know the inner truth regarding what this hadith means.
And coming to your comment again, majority of the hadith on this topic are weak. Even of those which are from sahihs are only presenting the story regarding the doubts which used to prevail before the compilation of The Quran on paper and even if these hadiths are seen carefully, majority of the late narrators belong to Basra region which had strong Shia influence (even now they are the major Shia belt in the form of Iraq and Iran). So there is Shia touch in the chain of narrators of these hadiths.
So, I think you would have understood these facts
1. What does it mean by Sihah in Sihah Sittah and Sahih in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim
2. How great and how scientific were these scholars of hadiths
3. Neither Aisha nor any sahaba(peace be upon them) lied.
4. The Quran is free from tampering (doesn’t matter when tried directly or by misquoting and misinterpreting hadiths).
If you still have doubt you re-read the explanation. And if it still remains, then read the books on science of hadiths by Islamic scholars. And I pray Allah to guide you and me. AND ALLAH KNOWS THE BEST.
Nur-el-Masih Ben Haq
May 15, 2009 at 7:21 PM
In response to C F E with truth,
To begin with, I have never been a Shi’a. I had been a Sunni before I saw the light of Christ. So, I am not influenced by Shi’ism at all. Secondly, you appear to still not know the difference btw the Bible and the Qur’an. Pls in what specific ways do you think that the Qur’an is better than the Bible?
C F E with truth
April 25, 2009 at 6:49 AM
Sorry brothers for changing my name . With my old id i.e. comforter for ever with the truth, I was not able to post. I was trying for long time. Today I got the idea of changing the name (initializing) and try posting and it clicked. All thanks to Allah. May be some technical difficulty with my id.
C F E with truth
May 21, 2009 at 3:42 PM
Brother Nur, I never told that you were Shia. I was expecting you to be a Jew or Christian with good approach to Orientalists (but never Muslim). Actually, Orientalists took these points (baseless) from Shias’ literatures to prove that Quran was fabricated. Your story, if it is believed to be true is really unfortunate. You think, you got the light of Christ. Truly, if you had really got the light of Christ, you would have been successful. The light which you are thinking of christ’s are actually light of Paul (better to call darkness). You can be salvated through Jesus (pbuh) but surely not through Paul. What you think salvation is actually ditch. Real salvation is what Jesus (pbuh) told not Paul. E.g.
Jesus (pbuh) told regarding salvation:
Matthew 5:17 – Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18- For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19- Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20- For I say unto you, That EXCEPT YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL EXCEED [THE RIGHTEOUSNESS] OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, YE SHALL IN NO CASE ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
Paul told regarding salvation:
Romans 10:9 – That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that GOD HATH RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, THOU SHALT BE SAVED.
Acts 13:39 – And by him ALL THAT BELIEVE ARE JUSTIFIED from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
1 Corinthians 15:14 – And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your FAITH [IS] ALSO VAIN.
Unfortunately you believe, Disciple (that also self made like Paul) speaks better than Jesus (pbuh) while we believe Disciples cannot be better than Master. I think we follow Christ more because this is what Jesus (pbuh) told.
Matthew 10:24 – The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord.
We are the follower of Jesus (pbuh) and so called Christians are the worshipper of Jesus (pbuh). That is why Jesus (pbuh) told
Matthew 15:9 – But IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
And it will not be amazing that even after these warnings if they don’t understand and don’t mend their ways and can do anything, what they think good and claim it for Jesus (pbuh), will have to suffer. Jesus (pbuh) will say to them in his second coming (according to his famous Sermon on the Mount).
Matthew 7:22 – Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23- AND THEN WILL I PROFESS UNTO THEM, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore, brother read your scripture properly in unbiased way, not in the way you have been conditioned , still, you will get the God’s word in it (along with many other rubbishes). And if you want to get the pure message which does not need any filtration and editing (for the purity), read Quran. Actually basic messages are the same. Because God says in
Quran 17:77 – (This was Our) Sunnah (rule or way) with the Messengers We sent before you (O Muhammad ), and you will not find any alteration in Our Sunnah (rule or way, etc.).
I am sorry brother if my words did hurt you. Actually it is very difficult to get rid of prejudices. I think you have thirst for the truth and as you mentioned that you even converted to Christianity. This shows you have eagerness to know the truth. May be now you can see the truth of Islam when you are away from it, as base of a candle even though very part of the candle can’t see it’s light most of the times. May God guide you and me to The Truth.
C F E with truth
May 21, 2009 at 3:48 PM
What specific way Quran is better than Bible?. In brief…
According to Bible Jesus (pbuh) and his message(Gospel) was from God, but meant for those people and at that time
Matthew 15:24 – But he answered and said, I am NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.
But there are some verses in bible which say to preach gospel to all but all those verses were attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the form of dream or resurrected Jesus (pbuh) but actually Jesus (pbuh) in his life never said so. He even prohibited to go to gentiles (non Jews). .
Matthew 10 : 5 – These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, GO NOT INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILES, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6- But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
You can see the life of Jesus (pbuh) and his preaching. Interestingly he did NOT EVEN SELECT SINGLE DISCIPLE FROM GENTILES. All of them were Jews only. Not a single gentile was converted to Christianity during his life time.
Bible is written by human authors and many of them not known and even if known this is not completely true. First five books including Deuteronomy are supposed to be written by Moses , but when you see text this is not correct e.g.
Deuteronomy 34: 5 – SO MOSES THE SERVANT OF THE LORD DIED there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 – And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. 7 – And MOSES [WAS] AN HUNDRED AND TWENTY YEARS OLD WHEN HE DIED: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
See here Moses is writing about his death scene. Imagine Moses is writing that, “ Moses died”. Please don’t tell that only verses like this were not from Moses but all others were. Why confusion? Does God create confusion like this especially regarding his holy scriptures. Bible doesn’t support this.
1 Corinthians 14: 33- For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Amazingly it is believed in Christianity that even though writers were human they had got these all as revelation from God. But the writer says opposite.
Luke 1:1-4 …….. 2 – Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were EYEWITNESSES, and ministers of the word; 3 – It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, TO WRITE UNTO THEE IN ORDER, ……
Luke is saying that what he HEARD FROM EYEWITNESSES, he was writing, but Our Christian brothers don’t believe this verse and believe others. They are very selective in believing. What suits them, they will believe. So Bible according to bible writer is HEARD VERSION not revealed or inspired version. And you would surely agree with me that it includes word of God, word of Jesus (pbuh) and word of many historians and many other things not suitable for us to speak regarding that. So Bible is NOT WHOLLY THE WORD OF GOD.
That is the reason there are thousands of manuscripts of bible and no two are exact duplicate. And every few years Bible scholars are sitting and verifying them and then doing editing and create new versions (not translations).
And this (interpolation in bible) was with God’s knowledge and he did not mind to preserve it as it was meant for those people and at that time. But when it comes to Quran God himself took responsibility of preserving this book . Quran 15:9 – Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur’ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption) .
And we have seen in the last discussions, how was it preserved. And we have the proof in libraries where such manuscripts are still there without a change of word. And for Bible versions, you don’t have to go far away, just go to any near shop and can have different versions with difference of verses and even chapters.
As far as Quran is concerned it was revealed through angel Gabrael to Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and the whole book is in this format of word of God unlike Bible. Stories and tradition of Prophets are in Hadiths and story of historians are in other books.
So this is the difference between Quran and Bible in short. So you have two bottles of water to drink, one fully testified, pure and well preserved, while the other one (also bottle with water) whose purity is doubtful, when testified fails miserably and kept open for adulteration. It is up to you to decide.
Brother if you have doubt about any verse of Quran, quote me ONE BY ONE and tell, what you feel wrong in it. Please don’t bombard me with verses (typical Orientalists’ approach). Inshallah I’ll try to solve your problem. I pray God to guide you and me to The Truth.
Osman
November 29, 2009 at 12:19 AM
Mashallah Great article!!
Isa
April 7, 2010 at 5:37 AM
as-salaamu’alaikum,
Jazaakumullaahu khayran for the comments and the healthy dialogue. If we exceded any boundries, I ask Allah to forgive us all!
I am blogging again at – http://www.brotherisa.wordpress.com
Baarakullaahu feekum
was-salaamu’alaikum
Brent (Isa) Graham
Idris
July 24, 2013 at 7:52 AM
Even in some bible verses where Jesus(as) was been referred to as the messenger of Allah(SWT) check (acts 4:27, 30) even in the same bible that the so called christains are carrying about Jesus(as) performed solat ie sajda for Allah(SWT) check (Mat 26:36-39) not only Jesus performed solat for Allah(SWT) Ezra also performed a congregational prayer with his people for Allah(SWT) check (Nehemiah 8:1-6) Also (John 14:30) where Jesus(as) made a prophecy of the coming of another messenger but there so called leaders changed the name to something else. May Almighty Allah (SWT) grant us better underfstanding amin