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Retread: Halloween’s Strange Fruit – Ruth Nasrullah

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If you are tempted to dress up in a costume, and celebrate a rite that is antithetical to Islamic celebrations, then stop, think, and go to the Masjid instead! If you really want candy, go to the grocery store and buy some. What about kids coming to your door-steps? Leave your porch light off, or add a sign politely explaining that you do not celebrate Halloween. By the way, Muslims are not the only ones who don’t “celebrate” this “holiday”. There are certain Christian sects who also don’t agree with it.  The following article is a retread of an older one by Ruth Nasrullah.  There are also some other suggested readings below. Bottomline: Just [don’t] Do It -Amad

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The family down the street from me has a 20-foot-long effigy of a body hanging from the branch of a tree in their front lawn. It has a skeletal face fixed in a grimace and long strands of gray hair hanging down in clumps.

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I kind of get it – Halloween is about all things ghoulish – but I’m also horrified at the over-the-top morbidity. It makes me think of the old Billie Holiday song inspired by the lynching of two black men, “Strange Fruit”:

halloween-pumpkin-muslim.JPGSouthern trees bear strange fruit,
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze,
Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

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44 Comments

44 Comments

  1. Amad

    October 31, 2008 at 9:05 AM

    Make sure to click on the pumpkin photo and read Mr. Pumpkin’s message to humanity :)

  2. Abd al Majeed

    October 31, 2008 at 11:15 AM

    alhamdulilah we’ve got an AlMaghrib class at trick-or-treating time, so we won’t have any problems. :D

  3. SH

    October 31, 2008 at 12:30 PM

    We have rain here in California….Alhamdullilah!!! less trick or treaters & less chance of our car being vandalized or our house egged like it has been for the last two years….grrr

    I love rain !!! Mercy from Allah SWt. Alhamdullilah!

  4. Curiousmuslimah

    October 31, 2008 at 12:45 PM

    I still take part in Halloween..and most other American holidays to be honest. Mostly for my kids because they are not Muslim and I am trying to still figure out how to balance it all. I will also admit to having a fondness for Halloween. I have a love for everything creepy and morbid and I also love dressing up in costume. I will have to find another outlet for that! Anyway, thanks for the article it gives me much to think about, even if I don’t agree with much of it.

  5. Amad

    October 31, 2008 at 12:56 PM

    Sister “Curiousmuslimah”, the matter of Halloween is not an end-of-the-world issue, which will make or break anyone’s faith. It is simply a matter that we should try our very best to avoid. I can understand how difficult it is to explain this to non-Muslim children, but you may be able to find some information about Christians who refuse to celebrate this online (if the children are Christians).

    Of course, it is much more important to focus on giving your children dawah about basic Islam than to even try to sell them on what’s wrong with Halloween. Especially to avoid turning them further away from learning about our religion.

    As far as costumes, maybe you can find another day to dress scary :)

  6. Curiousmuslimah

    October 31, 2008 at 1:24 PM

    Oh, I know it’s not an end of the world thing! I am just one that does not see anything really wrong or evil with it in the end. It’s always been a secular holiday for me, a gathering of family, friends and candy and all that..lol. Back when I was researching religions I went to a pagan Samhain celebration…has no relation to do with the Halloween most people celebrate. It was very interesting and not what most people would think a pagan gathering would be and everyone was very kind, btw. I find the Christian reasons for not celebrating…not very good to say the least. I won’t rant here though!

    My kids have no religion and probably won’t until the choose one as teens. Inshallah, they will become Muslims. They are very interesting in learning about it. I won’t push them though, just gentle influence. My parents gave me the choice and allowed me to explore religions and I want to do the same for my kids.

  7. Taha

    October 31, 2008 at 4:38 PM

    HAHA..closing your porch light and putting up a sign saying you dont celebrate halloween..That is just an invitation for non-stop egging

  8. ibnabeeomar

    October 31, 2008 at 4:41 PM

    i wanted to post this comment here (i posted it on the original article about halloween) but its worth mentioning in regards to the point that comes up in regards to integrating with society

    Personally going into this society as a youth with all the fitnahs, whether in school, universities or work is the biggest horror for a child or person than to worry about a trick or treat day where they wear masks and collect candy.

    actually the friday khutbah i heard today specifically talked about this.

    this is a microcosm of a bigger issue, and that is establishing a sound muslim identity for people growing up in this society. yes, we’re different. the sahabah were different, they were tortured for being different, the seerah is full of examples of people persevering through difficulties because they were ‘different’ and not so integrated in.

    but here’s the questions that come up:

    1) do we as parents, educate our children about what these holidays are, and why they go against our iman, which is much more precious than “a mask and some candy”

    2) have we taught our children the inspirational stories of the sahabah and acquainted them with the seerah?

    3) why does celebrating halloween and christmas define being part of society? why dont we integrate into society by partaking in actions that really affect society and “integrate” us like volunteering our time at homeless shelters, soup kitchens, and tons of other activities that are of common concern to all of us in society (muslim or not)

    The last point to mention is that, we should be strict on these issues, but at the same time, when its time for eid, we should go all out and celebrate on those occassions, and teach our kids that *this* is our time to have fun and celebrate.

  9. sisterindeen

    October 31, 2008 at 5:49 PM

    excellent points mashallah ^^

    Islamic Parenting is an topic which should be talked about MUCH MUCH more in our communities whether by word of mouth or organized classes, workshops, seminars or halaqas.

  10. Dawud Israel

    October 31, 2008 at 6:48 PM

    HALALOWEEN ONLY HAPPENS IN THE MASJID!!!!

  11. Sharif

    October 31, 2008 at 7:10 PM

    Here is a great talk by Yusuf Estes: Halloween Tips.

  12. Amad

    October 31, 2008 at 7:30 PM

    Salam
    Sisterindeen, everyones in for a treat ia with a series on parenting in west about 10 days from now ia
    Stay tuned

  13. Dawud Israel

    October 31, 2008 at 7:49 PM

    You can get some benefits out of Halloween by doing the following:

    -Buy LOTS of Candy NOW since it is cheap
    -When Eid comes around in December you can hand it out to little kids and just anyone enmasse
    –> I have been doing this for over a year and even on Jumaah, and I can tell you kids LOVE IT, we need to build that love of the masjid
    This candy will last you a couple of months and it is VERY HARD to find a big enough selection, in bulk, that is cheap as well.

    -The other thing you can do with that candy is save it for Feed the Streets AKA Project Downtown
    -Make some bagged lunches with a halal sandwich, granola bar, watter bottle, fruit, friendly note and some halloween candy
    –> Who needs the food more than the homeless and hungry?
    Give it to THE POOR and earn hasanat.

    I think I sense a new facebook group coming on… :)

  14. fatima

    October 31, 2008 at 7:55 PM

    I don’t get it. Why not just not celebrate yourself, but pass out candy to neighbourhood kids? What would be wrong with that? Isn’t that just being a good neighbour? And what is wrong with seeing Halloween just as a time to wear a costume and have fun? You don’t have to believe anything about the souls of the dead returning, but I don’t get why it would ruin one’s faith.

  15. Dawud Israel

    October 31, 2008 at 8:09 PM

    Yeah…I am wouldn’t doubt that there is more than one opinion one this fellas…I know some scholars say Birthdays are halaal because it has no religious connotation whatsoever…yeah sure, one could argue that Halloween has religious connotation but for a culture that thinks Easter is about a bunny, I don’t think anyone could care about the religious connotation of Halloween.

    My take is if you are going to go out Trick or Treatin’, do it for CHARITY and ask people for non-perishable goods you can give to the foodbank, at least make it an opportunity to do some khayr, no?

  16. Amad

    October 31, 2008 at 8:26 PM

    Fatima, being a good neighbor doesn’t mean you share in things that are not permitted by our deen. There is nothing unneighborly by politely telling your neighbors that you don’t celebrate Halloween for religious reasons. In fact, it may give you an opportunity to mention something about Islam. What is more neighborly than a little dawah? :) Integration does not equal assimilation inshalah. There are some things in life that are difficult to avoid, and others are not that hard… this one is of the latter.

  17. Saleha H.

    October 31, 2008 at 10:58 PM

    Ever since I was little, I’ve hated the thought of halloween. Kids who have the money to get some candy go around to everyone’s houses and beg for more? I mean come on, I’d rather do the trick part then spoil them with more treats. Every year we didn’t give out candy, there has been some sort of egging/vandalism. But, I have to say, insha’Allah it’ll get less and less every year.;) I don’t recommend the sign, but I do recommend turning off the lights OR what we always did was go to a relatives house and visit. If you’re giving out candy to just be a good neighbor, I don’t see the point of doing it on October 31st of all days that you could have been doing it. Khair, I think that it’s another excuse to spend more money on useless costumes and candy. I also am afraid for those who decorate their house by making it look like a graveyard, I don’t think death/fear should be made fun of like this, because indeed, it’s a very serious matter. It’s just when I see those bodys hanging off the trees, I think to myself, “Oh my god, aren’t they just a little scared of the hereafter?” May Allah(swt) keep us on the Sirat-ul-Mustaqeem.Ameen! :)

  18. mulsimah

    October 31, 2008 at 11:42 PM

    salaam
    I personally dont think there is anything wrong with taking your kids to the mall where its safe and dressing in good costumes like fireman or policeman.
    to say that its haraam is dangerous. there is a diff in opinon on this issue and it makes me really mad when in islamic school they say to the little kids that they are follwing shaytan and bribing them with candy like its realy up to them. when the parents are the ones which actually decide. i dont believe there is anything wrong in celebrating halloween this way.

  19. Joyhamza

    November 1, 2008 at 12:32 AM

    I know this is absolutely irrelevant but still posting due to specific need. One of the novelists in our country has claimed that (in the issue of permissibility in erecting statues) that The Prophet (saws) while he broke all the idols of the ka’aba spared a a picture of Maryam (a). he sited as evidence seerah of Ibn Ishaq translated by Alfred Gillaume with the title “The Life of Muhmmad.” I do not see the the book anywhere. Can anybody verify for me whether it really was the case. Was it in the original seerah? Was it an addition in the translation? was it a weak narration or something of that sort. Or was it a fact which implies a different fiqh issue?

    And If you can then kindly give me the reference from that book of this incident. Sorry for going off-topic. But this is a necessity.

  20. S

    November 1, 2008 at 10:58 AM

    Joyhamza,

    I know that Martin Lings says that in his biography, but where he gets it from, I have no idea. I believe Sh. Yasir Qadhi mentions it in one of his talks, there’s no historical basis for that, and if you think about it, it goes against the essence of Islam.

  21. fatima

    November 2, 2008 at 8:10 AM

    Amad, I agree with Dawud Israel. I think that a) in the US at least, by the vast majority of people, Halloween is not celebrated with any religious connotation. It’s purely seen as a fun holiday. People tend not to even dress up as a spooky things anymore, mostly as basically anything they like. I think it’s a time where you can have fun yourself (you don’t need, again, to celebrate it with any religious connotation, merely just as a big fancy dress party), pass out candy to neighbourhood kids in the spirit of goodwill (part of integration is to be able to engage in the society of others without compromising yourself) and perhaps even go trick-a-treating to collect non-perishable goods to give to the needy, which is I think a far better act in the eyes of Allah swt than going around prostelizing about Islam.

    When you have kids who are growing up in the West, I think it is more harmful than not to ban them from participating in things such as Halloween, birthdays, Easter and Christmas. There is always a way to participate and not compromise your beliefs and engage more with the society in whcih you live – and what a society celebrates is as important as anything else. If you can do both, I think it is far healthier and makes you a far more well-rounded person. And your faith is in your heart, as much as it is in your acts. You can use any act, like this, not only to confirm the best parts of your faith (giving to charity), but also by reaching out to others, and it’s entirely possible to be part of more than one culture at the same time.

  22. mulsimah

    November 2, 2008 at 11:21 AM

    well christmas and easter are religous holidays while halloween and birthdays and valentines and anniversaries are not.

    i know somepeople might startt bring the origniation but the origins shouldnt matter as long as they are not practiced today.

  23. Me

    November 2, 2008 at 2:35 PM

    Assalaamu alaikum,

    Even if we don’t see it as a religious holiday, it’s simply imitation of the disbelievers. If we are going to compromise on our deen while living in the lands of the non-Muslims and live their lifestye, then we should leave.

    It surprises me how much effort some Muslims put into celebrating non-Muslim holidays, and when it comes to our Eid they talk about how boring it was and how they did nothing special on that day. SubhanaAllah, why should our Muslim children see Eid as any other day? The parents, especially when living in non-Muslim lands, should do as much as possible to celebrate Eid with their family. It’s an act of worship.

    Moreover, to me, sending our kids for trick-or-treating is like teaching them to beg.

    And Allah knows best.

  24. fatima

    November 2, 2008 at 2:43 PM

    Me –

    ‘An imitation of the disbelievers’? Seriously? Why call them ‘disbelievers’? You seem to have quite an arrogant attitude towards people who aren’t Muslim. Everyone has a different faith, a different lifestyle, etc, and all are worthy of respect.

    Also you can put a minimal amount of effort into enjoying Halloween, if you feel like it, or using the occasion to collect things for charity, or participating in a limited way, and still celebrate Eid fully. My family does this. My siblings and I have always grown up with a great appreciation and love for our own important days, but have also been able to participate in the society that we are a part of and to understand people better through doing so.

    And I don’t think it’s teaching them to beg. The context is totally different. I think it is a nice way to get to know your neighbours and to be a part of your community, whether kids collect candy, or collect things for charity.

    I don’t think you need to compromise your deen by engaging to some extent in the lifestyle and celebrations of others. I think this is part of the beauty of living in a multicultural, religiously diverse society. Perhaps by doing a small thing like giving out candy on Halloween, when it comes time for Eid, people may also be curious about what you are celebrating and learn more about Islam and Muslims that way.

  25. mulsimah

    November 2, 2008 at 4:01 PM

    its totally not teaching your kids to beg.. it is just someting fun. I totally agree with sister Fatimah. you know the people who give out the candy also enjoy the kids costumbes. its like a two way thing. l

    imitation of disbelievers? that is a very broad subject and there are many differences of opinons by scholars on what exactly ‘imitation ‘ means. when there is something good in it I dont c anything wrong.

    I think that if u dont want ur kids to celebrate it fine, but why go around telling other people they are doing ‘bad’ when they are really not.

    exactly nobody has to go overboard. my son wears his same fireman costume which (teaches good things) only once a yr and goes to the mall what could be more safer and not over done?

  26. mulsimah

    November 2, 2008 at 4:04 PM

    by the way i think the holdiay we do celebrate best in the US IS EID for us . that doesnt menat u cannot participate in your culture if it does not bring ne harm!

  27. Amad

    November 2, 2008 at 8:44 PM

    Mulsimah and Fatima: If our religion was based on what your opinion is or what my opinion is, I am sure we would have a different religion for each household. But Allah has told us in the Quran, what means: ‘”Ask the people of remembrance if you do not know”. And the people of remembrance are the scholars.

    We have provided a link to an article that has been put together by a convert who is also a person of knowledge. Please read it carefully, and if you have an Islamic objection, then we can try to get an answer for it. But just saying that I don’t think this is right or I don’t think this is wrong is not sufficient. We must recognize that we are laymen… that we still have a lot to learn (and I am including myself in that). Just like you would not argue with a surgeon on how best to conduct a surgery, similarly we should recognize our own limitations of knowledge. Clearly, the majority of Muslim scholars have disliked the halloween celebration because of its connections with evil. We cannot overrule them based on what we feel is integrative and not.

    And on a completely social level, I totally disagree with you too. I have lived in neighborhoods, predominantly non-Muslim in the deep south (of Texas). And my family never celebrated Halloween, Christmas, etc. BUT we always interacted with our neighbors, became friends and kept in contact with each other, even after we moved. Our neighbors respected our choices, and understood that there are certain things in which we are indeed different. Many times, this provided an opportunity to talk about Islam, because if you really care about your neighbor, you want him/her to hear about Islam, and success in the hereafter.

    We cannot be afraid to establish our identity as Muslims. Trust me, there are tons of opportunities to be neighborly and to be integrative than waiting for Halloween. Next time you cook something nice, send a portion to your neighbor. On Eid, send toys for your neighbor’s kids. On the birth of a neighbor’s child, send a blanket and a card. If a neighbor is sick, share your food, and send them your best wishes. Why do we need stupid, hollow celebrations to “integrate”? Aren’t there opportunities everyday? Sometimes, we look for excuses, while if we try to find a win-win situation, we won’t have trouble doing both: keeping our Muslim identities and loving our neighbors! Hope that made sense.

  28. Fahad

    November 3, 2008 at 11:38 AM

    Masha’Allah. Well I think what the problem with the Muslim ummah today is we focus so much time on minor issues that we forget the major ones and we tend to have this arrogant attitudes that we are the only ones that are right and everyone else is wrong. We must understand that we live in times of fitnah, and in times of fitnah, we should know that there are hadeeths specifically for these times if we want to apply them, and these stress the fact that differences in the ummah will be imminent but these diffirences can also be taken as a mercy.

    I read people talking about how halloween is imitating the disbelievers and how it is compared with begging and what not, and I cannot understand these type of extreme thoughts that are produced in todays ummah. I believe in the Quran it says “O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you”.

  29. Fatima

    November 3, 2008 at 11:57 AM

    Amad – but in the end, whether you like it or not, everyone DOES interpret their faith differently. Their love for Allah might be the same, but that’s why we have many different schools of Islamic law, for example, not everyone can agree on what being a Muslim really entails. So there actually is a different religion in every household.

    Also, that article is based on an incorrect premise – Halloween, or originally Samhain, was actually not a celebration of Satan. It was a celebration of the end of the harvest. The dead spirits got involved because people did not want them causing mischief with the harvest, so they attempted to trick or placate them. In fact, the article claims that Christmas is better for Muslims to celebrate, when arguably Christmas also derives from a pagan festival – December 25th was an arbitrary date chosen by Pope Julius I for Jesus’s birthday and before that, throughout Europe, December 25th was a date for celebrating the winter solstice with pagan rituals. Christmas is really that celebration given a new name and identity. So Halloween, which is no longer celebrated for any reasons to do with spirits or harvests, is merely now a holiday arguably primarily based around the ritual of trick-or-treating, which less and less people do each year. So I think Halloween is now purely social.

    I’m not going to tell you how it is best to establish your identity as a Muslim, or what you should or shouldn’t feel comfortable doing. But I think that two things are important to remember. Firstly, Muslims have not integrated successfully. This is neither the fault of Muslims or of the societies they live in only – it’s both. But, I have lived in four different countries now (three of which were in the West) and based on my personal experience it seems to me that Muslims keep themselves isolated as much as society isolates them. Part of this is what Fahad is referring to – we are overly consumed with petty issues and we tend to think that other societies are something that will corrupt us, rather than something we can learn from and engage with. The Prophet learned from other societies and reached out to them -Christian and Jewish societies also. Islam was never meant to be an insular thing. Muslims are part of an ummah, yes, but we are also part of a world. This approach to Halloween – that it’s evil – is on a very small and insignificant scale a typical display of what’s wrong with our approach to the world generally. We have to reach out and understand other people and engage in their celebrations and societies before we can expect them to understand us. We should be concentrating on bigger issues than things like whether wearing fancy dress is wrong, whether wearing jewelry is wrong, whether listening to music is wrong, whether sitting next to someone of the opposite sex is wrong. There is a great deal of poverty and a lack of education in Muslim societies all over the world. At least you and I can have a conversation about our own religion, but many Muslims I meet do not even know enough about the history of Islam or why they do what they do to have this conversation.

    We need to start being part of the real world – while maintaining the important parts of our faith (charity, true prayer, kindness, equality, etc) and establishing a personal relationship with Allah – because if we don’t, we are only going to be left behind and marginalised even further.

  30. mulsimah

    November 3, 2008 at 12:49 PM

    Brother Amad if it had connection to evil in this day and time do you really tihink parents would be sending their children????? muslims are not the only people who care about their children.

    i dont do it so i can integrate to society . i let my child go to the mall because i dont see harm in it! there is not specific hadith that sais you cannot. most who forbid it do based on opinons.

    you see i dont beleive we can keep a fish in our house bc i think its just for show and fish needs vast majority of water . they dont need to be in our house for show in cages. and a friend told me well the scholars dont forbid it , i just asked. i said well that is because they dont have much knowelege on the subject!
    do you remember when smoking was considered makroor andnow scholars say haram. because they have more knowlege on the subject or well the whole world has knowelge on the subject. unfortuatnely i think scholars should study first and then make a judgemnt. when in reality is they dont.

    so when u give me a hadith that sais halloween is haram until then i canot ibelieve it is. sister fatimah tend to know more about the origins rather than the scholars so why is it that she cannot make the judgement? and the ‘imation ‘ hadith is not enough like i said even scholars believe in diff intiterpretation sof that.

  31. Amad

    November 3, 2008 at 1:04 PM

    First of all, lets make clear where Fahad is coming from. He is one of the “quraniyoon”, those that don’t even believe in Sunnah. By the consensus of the Ummah, those that reject the Sunnah completely, i.e. that the Quran is sufficient, then their very Islam is in question. This is not my opinion, this is the opinion of scholars.

    Secondly, before making an assumption that scholars don’t know what halloween is about, do you have evidence for that? In fact, the article that I linked to provided clear evidence that the person knew what he was talking about. This has no comparison with smoking, which needed medical research. No rocket science here sorry. And it is very dangerous for us to use this “difference of opinion” methodology to reject opinions. In order for you to reject the Islamic opinion here, you need to bring to me another scholar from the Ahl Sunnah who agrees with your position. Then we can have a discussion.

    Thirdly, to trivialize matters as being petty or unnecessary is not a justified way of dealing with Islamic concerns. All matters are important, yes some have more priority than others, but THIS post is talking SPECIFICALLY about halloween, so that is why the discussion is about it. If we are talking about the state of the Muslim Ummah, then this matter would not find its way in that.

    Finally, I think there is a bigger issue here. It is not about halloween. It is about methodology, it is about authority of Sunnah, authority of the scholars, etc. So, there is no point discussing something when there is fundamental disagreement on methodology and sources. I would urge you all to spend more time going over Authority of Sunnah posts on MM. And if you disagree with those, then bring your issues there, not here.

    Authority of Sunnah
    Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4

    P.S. Fahad, we have a long history, and I know where you stand. Just to let you know that we will not stand for Quraniyoon, parvezi type misinformation and confusion on MM. It is off-limits here.

  32. Fahad

    November 3, 2008 at 1:31 PM

    “First of all, lets make clear where Fahad is coming from. He is one of the “quraniyoon”, those that don’t even BELIEVE in Sunnah.”

    OK AMAD S!? , before you insult me or label me, you need look at yourself more deeply my friend. First of all, this is like my third time on this website and trust me, I just read this website for fun and because there are young muslims here interacting and with good point of views. Secondly, please don’t ASSUME that we have a long history because from your face on the picture, I have never met you, cause than I would know you and you would know me.

    Lastly, who are the Quraniyoon you so confidently label me to follow, Subha’Allah, you just proved my point about the problem facing the ummah as we have people like our friend Amad S. so vehemently labeling people and criticizing other points of views.

  33. Amad

    November 3, 2008 at 2:17 PM

    Fahad, I am talking about the exchanges on Hakim Abdullah’s blog (now Saifudeen), and on Eteraz’s now-defunct “States of Islam” blog. I hope that refreshes your memory?

    Unless I got the wrong Fahad, which could happen, but that would be a coincidence with two Fahads making the same points. But indeed if you are not the same Fahad, then my apologies.

    As far as who Quraniyoon are, labels asides, it is anyone who denies the authority of Sunnah as being one of the two PRIMARY sources of Islamic knowledge. Or those who say Quran is sufficient and cast a doubt on all hadith in general (even Bukhari and Muslim for instance). And sometimes they are slick in how they deny ahadith, but ultimately it is about making the claim that Quran is sufficient. Similar to the Submitters of Rashad Khalifa and Parvezis who originated in the Indian sub-continent. Both groups are not considered to be in the fold of Islam, wallahualam.

  34. Umm Reem

    November 3, 2008 at 2:56 PM

    I just wanted to add something real quick.
    Remember ‘mushabihah’ (immitation) is of two types, one is totally cultural and one is religious. Cultural immitation of non-Muslims, if and when it becomes dominated within Muslims as well, is allowed like wearing wetern clothes etc. but religious immitation is not allowed even if it becomes common among Muslims wAllahu ta’ala ‘alam

    and halloween obviously traces its origin back to ‘religious’ celebrations…and the whole idea of dead spirits must have been the jinn involvement and to do things for them to seek protection from them… hmmm…reminds me of sh. yasir’s aqeedah class and the whole ‘shirkiyah’ practices…too creepy

  35. AnonyMouse

    November 3, 2008 at 3:38 PM

    For those who claim that the since the origins of Halloween are now almost totally forgotten, and that it’s now a secular holiday so it’s “okay” for Muslims to participate in it, one of the principles of fiqh (if my memory serves correctly) is that we DO look to the origins of a thing when determining its permissability.

    In fact, there is a hadith in which a man asked the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) if it was permissable to slaughter in a certain area, and the first thing that the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) inquired about before giving his answer was whether this was a place that was EVER known to be a place of slaughtering by the non-Muslims. (I can’t recall the exact source or wording of the hadeeth, so if someone does know, please post it here!)

    Secondly, it’s an annual practice, and ALL annual festivals (which is exactly what Halloween is) are forbidden to us. Did not Allah and His Messenger (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) replace them with something better for us?

    Thirdly, I cannot stress enough how the issue of “integrating” is overblown. 1) As Muslims, we’re SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT! “Fa tooba li’l Ghurabaa.” 2) Just because we don’t do what everyone else is doing, doesn’t mean that we’re isolating ourselves from society and causing problems for ourselves. We have to recognize the balance between interacting normally with society (which most Muslims do anyway) while preserving and strenghtening our identity as Muslims.

    Finally, I think that it’s absolutely wrong for us to overlook issues such as Halloween, mixing with the genders, etc. in favour of bigger problems such as poverty and lack of education. Again, there has to be a BALANCE: we should not be neglecting one in favour of the other, but rather we should be addressing them ALL because they ALL have a place in our religion and they ALL have an effect on our lives.

    May Allah guide us all to what is most pleasing to Him, and forgive us for our faults and shortcomings, ameen.

  36. Suhail

    November 3, 2008 at 3:57 PM

    People just want to mix in the society for any price. They bring all these flimsy excuses. They are all the same like these

    ” If we dont celebrate hallowen, christmas etc etc then we will be sidelined”, “If we dont do this or that then we will be sidelined” etc etc.

    I mean can u for once shed these excuses and put your trust in Allah and rely on him for help. What if a non muslim get offended by your not celebrating halloween? What can he do to you? Nothing unless Allah wants it to happen to you.

    These days we rely more on the enemies of Allah than on Allah and are more afraid of them than Allah. No wonder they are masters and we are the slaves.

  37. Suhail

    November 3, 2008 at 4:02 PM

    And who said there is a difference of opinion on the matter of celebrating halloween? Please give me a scholar who have given a fatawa that you can go ahead and celebrate halloween.

    Difference of opinion is not something that you can talk about when there is no other scholarly opinion with evidences from Quran and Sunnah to support it. Opinion is not your own opinion that came to your mind when you woke up in the morning. Islamic opinion comes from Quran and Sunnah and has evidences from the text supporting its case. Bring me an opinion which tells that celebrating Halloween is halal. Then we will discuss because at this point there is only one opinion that it is not allowed to celebrate it.

    So citing :”Difference of opinion” in these case is really a lame excuse and shameful.

  38. mulsimah

    November 3, 2008 at 5:27 PM

    to say that origins matter is very unfair. if something was bad before and now good has come out if whats wrong w that?

    its like saying a person is to blame for his past. the point is that there is no harm in it. as muslims we have to weigh the harm and the good.

  39. mulsimah

    November 3, 2008 at 5:27 PM

    why make islam harder than it is? is taking your kid for candy in the mall such a big crime?!

  40. Qas

    November 3, 2008 at 5:38 PM

    The Imam in my mosque, after warning people about these kinds of celebrations, said “My job was just to convey…you can go do the bhangra for all I care…”

  41. AnonyMouse

    November 3, 2008 at 6:49 PM

    Sis Mulsima… it’s not a matter of “it’s unfair” or “why make Islam harder than it is?” It’s a matter of understanding the wisdom behind the rulings of Allah and His Messenger, and saying “I hear and I obey.”

    The comparison you gave between the origins of a matter and a person’s past are totally different; we know that in the case of the latter, for example, Allah forgives a person’s sins once they accept Islam or repent SINCERELY of their deeds. In the case of the former, we have PROOF that the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) questioned the origin of the issue before ruling on it. To say that “it’s unfair” is, wal’iyaadhu billaah, saying that the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) was being unfair!!!

    And indeed, whoever gives something up purely for the Sake of Allah, Allah will replace it with something better for them in this world and the Hereafter.

  42. Suhail

    November 3, 2008 at 8:44 PM

    What do u mean by unfair. I hope you are not blaming Prophet(SAW) for unfairness. Secondly for a layman like you and me it is better to follow a fatawa of a well recognized mufti and what our scholars say.

    Islam is not a candy that it should be easy but it has its own set of rules whether they are easy or hard is not the point. Being a muslim means following what Allah and his Prophet(SAW) asked us to do. Islam does not change according to our whims and desires.

    And the point is not taking your kid for candy. You can take your kid for candy on any other day? Why would u like to go on halloween?
    To fulfill you kids desires you are putting yourself to be in the spot to be answerable to Allah. On that day your kid wont come to help you when Allah is going to question you for these things. Sister ponder on these things. Our kids are a test for us. So be careful with what you involve them in.

  43. mulsimah

    November 3, 2008 at 9:38 PM

    well brother suhail it really upsets me when people talk in assumptions

    i did not take my kid to fulfill ‘his desires’ as u say. my kid is very unspoiled. the candy will last him a very very long time just because of the fact that he can barely ever have it.

    so I do not appreciate the fact that you assumed that even after I have clearly said that I took him bc I dont c anything wrong with it.. just a fun thing..a happy occasion

    Brother Amad I also grew up here in the south side and have grown up celebrating halloween. most of the muslims i grew up with did the same even the very religious ones. we did not see ne harm in it.
    at the same time we never celebrated christmas or easter. again I dont think the argument against it is strong enough. andAllah swt gave us a brain to even us ‘laymen’

  44. sumiyah

    March 1, 2009 at 12:49 PM

    salaam, Its the ex mulsimah here! Well I thought this was good (its on birthdays) so I dont think it must diff. They use the same hadiths to justify the answers. This also explains the context of the hadiths you were talking about anonymouse so read on everyone..

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218386145936&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

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