Fiction
Tablighi Jamat – Anon
By Anon: Cross-posted from AE
The Tablighis, easy target for criticism,
Attacks against them launched with cynicism,
Politically unaware, intellectually docile,
Painted by some as simplistically puerile
But I must hasten to disagree,
And quote to you some history,
To prove the nature of my claims,
And perhaps to defend their noble aims
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When Hinduism was spreading in Mewat,
And Muslims were losing Iman from the heart,
A spiritual man arose who stood apart,
And founded what we now know as Tablighi Jamat
Who knew this spark of love would spread like fire,
For the situation seemed quite dire,
It transformed darkness to illumination,
And rescued the Sunnah from devastation
Empty Masjids cried floods of tears,
As no worshippers made sujud for many years,
And then crowds came back and thronged their floors,
You can see angels smile, and the heavens echo with applause
The dhikr of Allah is being revived by their crowds,
Throughout the lands jama’ahs travel like rain-bearing clouds,
Bringing much sought for water to thirsty lands,
And turning to luscious green arid desert lands.
Some people may be unaware of this information,
That Mawlana Ilyas was an initiated Sufi master,
But he saw the Mutasawifs and ‘Ulema remaining aloof from their congregation,
Whilst India’s Muslims plunged into great disaster
So he took the da’wah out to the masses,
Like bees flying on journeys making honey in stashes,
Unknown inhabitations became honeycombs sweet,
Where millions of Muslims gather and meet
They left their families and their abodes,
And embarked on difficult dusty roads,
Travelling for the pleasure of the Divine,
To replace the darkness of post-modernity with the Sunnah’s shine
Embryonic change happens in Forty Days,
Strange Indeed are Allah’s ways,
Dont call this number a reprehensible innovation,
Perchance it be a sign of your lack of academic discrimination
In the way of Allah each step they tread,
But only for Jihad this should be said?
Open the hadith work of Bukhari- the chapter on JUMU’AH,
Ya akhee fillah,
In that very chapter not about Jihad, it quotes the hadith of the feet being covered with dust fee sabeelillah
How many a former drug addict I have encountered in these lands,
Whose previously injecting hands are enshrouded with ancient sins,
And now he sits in the house of God with a tasbeeh in his hands,
Those same hands make dhikr on those beads of strings
How many a robber who used to steal,
How many a Zani who shamed the earth’s surrounds,
How many a musician singing profane sounds,
Now recounts God’s Jalal – it makes him yell out squeals,
And now the earth begins to smile, as he prostrates and as he kneels….
How many a face – black, white and yellow from every schism,
Sit on a mat and eat together their repast,
Whilst politicians talk of the problems of racism,
“Oh this is not our problem”- a thing of the past.
He makes nadama and in tawbah turns,
His heart with love of Allah yearns,
God Bless you Oh dearest Mawlana Ilyas,
How beautifully you turned Yaas Into Aas
From the orient to the occident,
And from the south right to the north
Crowds emerge with intentions heavenly bent,
And taking Allah’s name alone, they come forth
Pakistanis, Caucasians, Malaysians, Africans, and Turks,
Chinese, Eskimo, and Russian faces,
Ethnicities unheard of fill Masjids where traces,
Of their forefathers are written in historical works
Whilst Nations sit before cathode rays,
That titillate their eyes with their enticing ways,
These men rebel against Satan’s zto frustration
They sit of the floor as it indents their knees,
They know not of Nietzsche, Hume, Kant or Socrates,
They couldn’t perhaps recount Ghazzali or Avicenna’s complex kalaam,
But the dhikr of Allah makes their souls calm
This is not to deny the place of the Mutakallimin,
Without whom we would be in disarray,
But for the masses such complex arguments can lead astray,
So let dhawq and wijdan provide them with yaqeen
They are not by tales of Machiavelli’s prince infected,
The Sahabas‘ stories motivate their lives,
Such dark political ideologies before such heroes stand rejected,
Upholders of truth and self sacrifice
They hold no huge political rallies protesting to creation,
In the nights they stand in prayer before the answer of every supplication,
And with tears flood the floors begging for mercy and rejuvenation,
Once more gifting glory to the Ummah of the best of creation
Don’t approach the worldy kings -they cannot protect,
A pretzel falls into their tracheas, almost suffocating,
Such a small little thing He cannot eject?
How will he give Honour to those who stand outside the White House waiting?
They couldn’t tell you about quantum mechanics or Hawkings,
They couldn’t refute Darwinian thought or the reductionism of Dawkins,
They don’t know that much of Heisenbergs’ principle of uncertainty
For to them the kalimah is a deeply rooted certainty
They might not know Chomsky’s views on Linguistic Bayan,
Or how Steven Pinker’s instincts about neurolinguistics fit,
But they have of a surety read Surah Rahman,
And know that language is from Allah a merciful gift
And not the product of random forces without end,
Or indeed a blind watchmaker – no my friend,
The blindness is in your hearts – not the maker of harmony
So with Ahsan’l-Qawl..They call to the Absolute with humility
On the Day of Reckoning when the Prophets say nafsi nafsi…
Perhaps Dawkins will smile, albeit, temporarily,
Thinking “Ah my Selfish Gene Thesis was true,”
Even these Prophets are exhibiting ultimately a selfish hue
But then Mustafa shall come and say Ummati Ummati…
Such selflessness which will cause his theory to terminate suddenly,
This is the beloved of Allah, and this maqam you cannot explain scientifically,
So discard Dawkins Memes for Muhammad’s MEEM (saw)
They fall not prey to materialism or such bakwas,
They see the Divine hand behind each moving leaf,
In fact they are aboard a Noah’s ark constructed by Mawlana Ilyas,
They hold on to the Sunnah with their teeth
Of Freud’s oedipus complex they remain unaware,
Or indeed of changing uncertain paradigms,
Iman, Salah, the 6 points are in the air,
The Kafirs who promote intellectual kufr will pay for their crimes
Qiyamah is before their eyes,
Not mere logical premises philosophers surmise,
But deep rooted convictions that change their lives,
You don’t have to read volumes to be called wise
Those of us who study in intellectual arrogance,
Forget Rumi’s tales of the lover’s simple acceptance,
The intellect is still looking for its transportation,
Love has circled the Ka’ba 7 times in dedication
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abu Rumay-s.a.
April 17, 2010 at 4:38 AM
masha`Allah, talented composition!
may Allah ta`ala reward the tablighi brothers for all their sincerity and goodness and guide us and them to what is correct and pleasing to Allah ta`ala..ameen. (even though I personally have a lot of gripe about their methodology and some other issues, it has no doubt changed the lives of many people in certain parts of the globe)
I think all the movements need a “reformation” from time to time to cleanse themselves of the “dust” that is picked up along the way.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:34 AM
Unless it was dust to start with. No doubt they have changed many people from non-tablighis to tablighis. (which is their goal, and should not have been the case)
Anonymous
April 18, 2010 at 3:37 PM
You make hasty generalizations and comments about things you don’t know, have you ever been in Jammat, have you ever spent your own time and money to try and better yourself and to help others?
Hassan
April 18, 2010 at 6:56 PM
Yes.
Faiz ud Deen
April 20, 2010 at 2:00 PM
-Edited. The long story to provide a link that has ALREADY been shared in comments. And pls do not repeat same comment twice.
Khan(i was a hanafi tableeghi for almost a decade)
April 17, 2010 at 5:31 AM
-Comment deleted. Pls do not cut and paste. Feel free to paste a link if you wish. But this post is not an opportunity to bash, but rather to appreciate. -Editor
Farooq
April 17, 2010 at 5:44 AM
Mashallah, very well compiled.
One thing I must assuredly say, that I haven’t met any people in my life with the best character than the Tablighi brothers. May Allah reward them and increase their Imaan.
Regarding the number of days like 40 days or 4 months, which many people unnecessarily argue, it can be said as a specific period of training just like we attend the Universities for 4 years, etc.
The differences in the Ummah is a mercy from Allah.
Akhi Fillah
April 17, 2010 at 7:35 AM
“The differences in the Ummah is a mercy from Allah.”
Salamualikum bro,
Im not too sure about that statement, as Allah (azza wa jal) says clearly in the Qur’an: “And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah (i.e. this Quran), and be not divided among yourselves” [3:103]
If it was a mercy from Allah that we have differences, why would Allah tell us clearly to be not divided.
Jazakallah Kher.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:35 AM
Me neither, atleast on my face. Wait till you find out how they trash talk about non-tablighis in closed circles.
helloUncle
April 19, 2010 at 11:35 AM
…hang out with 12 year olds and that’s what you get anywhere
abdullah
April 17, 2010 at 3:50 PM
Akhi Farooq, diference of opinion is not a mercy, the hadeeth which states this is daeef as shaykh al albaani mentions in many places (sifat salat an nabi, silsilah ad daeefah and others).
The problem with the hadeeth is that this hadeeth does not have an isnaad , shaykh al albaani states:
“The muhadditheen have tried to find an isnaad for it but have not found one, to the extent that Suyooti said in his al-Jaami` as-Sagheer, “Perhaps it was collected in one of the books of the huffaadh which did not reach us”!
This suggestion is very far-fetched, since it would mean that some of the sayings of the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) have been lost to the ummah forever, something which is not permissible for a Muslim to believe.
Manaawi quoted Subki as saying, “It (i.e. the saying) is not known to the muhadditheen and I cannot find any isnaad for it, whether saheeh, da`eef or mawdoo`”, and this was endorsed by Shaykh Zakareeyyah al-Ansaari in his notes on Tafseer al-Baidaawi [92/2].
Further, the meaning of this hadeeth is also incorrect as shown by the verifying scholars, hence Ibn Hazm says in al-Ihkaam fi Usool al-Ahkaam [5/64] after indicating that it is not a hadeeth,
“This is one of the most incorrect sayings possible, since if ikhtilaaf were a mercy, then agreement would be a punishment, something which no Muslim would say, because there can only be agreement or disagreement, and there can only be mercy or punishment.”
(silsilah ad daeefah)
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 20, 2010 at 5:21 AM
Salam
This is a big problem when the masses go into hadith transmission, although i know you are quoting scholars. This is a very one sided quotation. For example imam nawawi refutes ibn hazm’s claim. Check out the following link for more details: http://www.abc.se/~m9783/mdf_e.html
abdullah
April 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM
Wa aliakum assalam akhi, i am One hundred percent sure that if a hadeeth does not havve an isnaad it is fabricated. it is not just ibn hazm who said that it was fabricated, other great scholars like imam as suyooti and al albaani say it is fabricated.
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 22, 2010 at 7:27 AM
Salam akhi
Read the link before you make such bold statements. And as for imam Suyuti. He says in his short treatise Jazil al-mawahib fi ikhtilaf al-madhahib (The abundant grants concerning the differences among the schools):
The hadith “Difference of opinion in my Community is a mercy for people” has many benefits among which are the fact that the Prophet foretold of the differences that would arise after his time among the madhahib in the branches of the law, and this is one of his miracles because it is a foretelling of things unseen.
(this is copied and pasted from the link)
Abu Ibrahim
April 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM
Even though I don’t consider myself a Tablighi, I have been on several jamaats with them throughout my life studying Islam.
I have to agree, they generally do have some of the best character that I’ve seen from the Muslim community. This is a general statement, not a specific one.
My only complaint is that some of them can be kind of pushy with the whole “going in the path of Allah” thing. But overall, my experiences with them have been positive, Alhamdulillah.
Abd- Allah
April 22, 2010 at 10:02 PM
Brother Zeeshan Ahmed. Here are some authentic hadiths which suffice us instead of using that fabricated one about how differing is mercy:
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever among you lives after I am gone will see a great deal of dissent.†Narrated by Abu Dawood (4067); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.
It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).†Narrated by Abu Dawood (4597) and others; classed as saheeh by al-Haakim (1/128), who said: it is an important hadeeth that represents a basic principle. It was classed as hasan by Ibn Hajar in Takhreej al-Kashshaaf (63). It was classed as saheeh by Ibn Taymiyah in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (3/345), al-Shaatibi in al-I’tisaam (1/430), and al-‘Iraaqi in Takhreej al-Ihya’ (9/133).
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.†They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.†This is mentioned in the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr which was recorded and classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi (2641). It was also classed as hasan by al-‘Iraaqi in Ahkaam al-Qur’aan (3/432), al-‘Iraaqi in Takhreej al-Ihya’ (3/284) and al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 23, 2010 at 6:43 AM
Salam akhi
Again the difference which imam suyuti is mentioning is regarding one type of difference based on the ‘fabricated’ hadith and his understanding is supported by many statements of the salaf (just let me know if you want to see them) and the difference that the hadith you quoted is talking about difference in core islamic beliefs. For example no one will say that the fitna of the mutazilah is a mercy for the ummah, but rather the difference between imam abu hanifa and imam shafi’ee is.
Just to give some evidence to back this position the famous narration where imam malik was asked by the ameer of the muslims that his muwatta would become the foundation book for all the muslims and any book going contrary to it should be abolished. So the muslims can unite under one authentic madhab (sound familiar?). Imam malik refused and there are many different narrations of how he refused.
Another point is that even for arguments sake if we accept that the narration is fabricated but the matn is correct as seen by ample narrations from the salaf (just look at the link i posted in the first comment).
wasalam
Abd- Allah
April 25, 2010 at 1:47 AM
Brother Zeeshan, Imam Suyuti’s interpretation of the matn of this “hadith” and how he explained it is based on the assumption that it is true and authentic. However, this “hadith” is not only fabricated, but it is also baseless and has no chain of narration what so ever! So if you still want to object to it being fabricated, then please do provide us with a chain of narration for it. Otherwise please simply accept that this is not an authentic hadith and that it is fabricated.
As for the matn, then the meaning of it is not correct, and it should be enough for you to read through the Quran rather than go to a sufi website which tries to justify differing rather than going back and following the Quran and sunnah and uniting upon them. As Allah says in the Quran that if we disagree about something we should take it back to Allah and His messenger peace be upon him. So differing is never justified nor acceptable, unless if there are no clear authentic texts from the Quran or the sunnah on a certain issue, so the scholars do ijtihad on that issue and it is natural for them to differ in such cases.
Farooq
April 17, 2010 at 5:53 AM
I think the commenter Khan above didn’t read the poem at all and copied pasted from somewhere. I must say doing such things will neither change the stance of this Ummah nor of those involved in calling towards Allah but will only create dissension among the readers of this blog.
Brother Khan, I recommend you to read this article posted yesterday:
May Allah forgive all the Muslims.
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 25, 2010 at 10:08 AM
Salam (this is for brother Abd- Allah who did not let me respond to his last comment which again exposes his ignorance of the science of hadith)
The whole point for an Islamic discussion is so we can accept that sometimes we may be wrong. I showed him that even if the statement was fabricated then because of the matn being correct which i showed by many of the salaf using it, there is no problem in quoting it or accepting it.
And the so called contradiction which you tried to point out, i showed that there is nothing contradictory in the islamic text but rather there is a flaw in your narrow mindedness or stubbornness. Please respond to what i have said specifically or accept that this is a accepted saying from the salaf.
Hassan
April 25, 2010 at 10:44 AM
How did he not let you respond to his last comment? By not having a reply link? Thats limitation of the software. (which again exposes something about some people?)
Abd- Allah
April 25, 2010 at 2:17 PM
Brother Hassan, don’t mind brother Zeeshan, for he has proved to be a blind follower of sufi shaykhs, and as soon as I mentioned the word sufi, you can see how his tone changed and he started accusing me of what he clearly is, “ignorant in the science of hadith, narrow minded and stubborn.” He has shown that he follows blindly what the sufis say without bothering with what the Quran or the authentic hadiths say.
The scholars have consensus that it is not permissible to attribute a fabricated hadith to the Prophet peace be upon him, even if the meaning of the matn is correct. But what do you expect of the sufis who base most of their beliefs on fabricated hadiths, so they have to justify using them some how in order to show their blind followers that they do have some “proof” for what they do.
The statements of the salaf which the sufis try to use to support their argument are misinterpreted, and that is not what the salaf meant by their statements, not to mention that some of what they quote are not authentic either, but that is typical of sufis to do.
One question that I am sure brother Zeeshan won’t be able to answer (because none of the sufis whom he blindly follows are able to answer it either) is since differing is mercy, then why did the Prophet peace be upon him say 72 out of the 73 Muslim sects are in hell fire ?
Ya`qub
April 25, 2010 at 11:55 PM
Assalamu `alaykum bro.
I know this is addressed to Zeeshan, but I would like to reply to the question.
I have heard a scholar explain (during a tafsir class) that the path (siratal-mustaqeem) is wide enough to allow differences, like in fiqh, but like any path it has its defining borders. I’m sure you know that there are valid differences in fiqh…Even Shaykh al-Albani differed with his companions.
Forgive me if I’ve mis-understood your post :)
Abd- Allah
April 26, 2010 at 12:37 AM
Wa Alaikum Assalam Warahmatullah brother Ya`qub, may Allah bless you, and may He guide us both to His straight path. As for differing and when are differences acceptable, then here is what I said in one of my earlier comments:
So the differences which are acceptable and do not take a person off the straight path are those in which there are no clear authentic texts from the Quran and sunnah that addresses them and state clearly the position about them. In such cases the scholars would have to do ijtihaad and make a ruling to the best of their knowledge as to what they see to be correct, and so it is natural and acceptable for them to differ, and differing in such issues does not take the person off the straight path, and even the companions differed among themselves in few minor issues such as these ones. However, in issues where there are clear authentic texts from the Quran or sunnah, then it is not permissible for anyone to differ with them on these issues, and everyone must follow them, and differing is not acceptable, and if a person insists on opposing such clear texts, then he should fear for himself from going astray and away from the straight path.
Some of these issues which differing is acceptable in them are issues of fiqh, and few of them are minor issues of Aqeedah as well, but in general, the major issues of Aqeedah differing is not acceptable at all and one who deviates from the truth in them is going astray and having wrong beliefs MIGHT take him out of Islam. So differing in issues of Aqeedah are much more dangerous, and there is more room to accept differing in fiqh, although to generalize and say that ALL issues of fiqh fall within being acceptable to differ on is not accurate or true. Some issues of fiqh where there are clear authentic texts from the Quran and sunnah on them that decide the matter decisively, then we should simply all follow what these texts say and not differ on them nor oppose the Quran and sunnah. Other matters of fiqh where things might not be very clear or there might not be any authentic texts from the Quran or sunnah which address these issues or determine their rulings, then differing on these issues falls within what is acceptable, because it is a result of ijtihaad of the scholars. To mention a few examples to make things easier to understand inshAllah, differing on whether the one who is praying behind the imam in one of the prayers where the imam recites out loud (like fajr, maghrib, or isha), the scholars since the time of the companions and up until our day have differed on whether that person praying behind the imam should recite surah Al-Fatiha for himself, or should he not recite it and just listen to the recitation of his imam for Al-Fatiha (during the fajr, maghrib, and isha prayers when the imam recites out loud). So differing in such an issue of fiqh is acceptable, and each scholar arrives at the ruling which he sees as being correct to the best of his knowledge and capabilities, and that is good enough for him and those who decide to follow him because Allah does not burden anyone beyond their capabilities. However, another issue of fiqh where differing is not acceptable, is wiping over the khuff (leather socks), because this is known to be the sunnah, and so anyone who denies it and says that it is not permissible to wipe over the khuff, then differing in this issue is not acceptable and whoever opposes this is going astray, so much so that the scholars have mentioned this matter of fiqh of wiping over the khuff in some of their books which talk about Aqeedah and deal with the matters of creed, which shows that differing in this matter is not acceptable, even though it is an issue of fiqh. So you see that those who opposed this issue like the shi’a for example who deny that wiping over the khuff is permissible and is the sunnah, then that is an indication of them deviating from the straight path. So you see, some matters of fiqh is acceptable to differ in them, but others it is not, because differing in them is usually an indication of much bigger faults within that person or group’s ideology or way of thinking and understanding Islam.
I would suggest you read this article because it explains things much clearly in where differing is acceptable and where it is not, and Allah knows best.
Ya`qub
April 26, 2010 at 3:25 AM
Of course major differences in aqeedah are not acceptable, and this is what the scholar meant by the path having boundaries. Was this discussion about aqeedah originally? To clarify, ‘Tabligh Jamaat’ is not some sect with its own aqeedah, but rather it is an effort. Even though it was started by a ‘Deobandi-Hanafi’, the beliefs of Deoband are not binding upon those doing the effort.
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 26, 2010 at 6:57 AM
Salam akhi
Again you quote the same hadith which i have already replied to. but lets switch the question around, would you say that the 4 madhabs are part of the 73 sects? Of course not and i have shown you that many classic ulama have accepted the wording of the hadith and saw no contradiction with the hadith you quoted.
Also this is not some sufi thing that you are trying to assert but rather sheikh haitham al haddad mentioned that because differing was present at the time of the companions and the companions where blessed. Hence the conclusion that difference (of course not all differing) is a blessing.
Yes brother yaqub this is the reality of the hadith. Some have said that it was a saying among the salaf although some have linked it to the prophet. And reading your (abdullah) latter comment it seems that even you accept differing but don’t like using the word ‘rahmah’, even though many ulama have. So in conclusion i will like to stay with the opinion of the jumhoor not odd opinions of sheikh albany and ibn hazm. Not that i discredit there scholarship but they went too literal on the interpretation of the hadith.
al-Khattabi said in Gharib al-hadith:
Difference of opinion in religion is of three kinds:
* In affirming the Creator and His Oneness: to deny it is disbelief;
* In His attributes and will: to deny them is innovation;
* In the different rulings of the branches of the law (ahkam al-furu`):
Allah has made them mercy and generosity for the scholars, and that is the meaning of the hadith: “Difference of opinion in my Community is a mercy.”
Also i apologise for the harsh words in the last post.
wasalam.
Abd- Allah
April 26, 2010 at 12:35 PM
Brother Ya`qub, even if the Tablighis don’t have a specific Aqeedah which they call for, yet they have still deviated in terms of Aqeedah, because their manhaj or methodology is not correct, and as the scholars have determined that the manhaj is part of Aqeedah. The great scholars of our times, such as Bin Baaz, Al-Albani, and others have stated that the Tablighis are considered one of the 72 sects and that they are not upon the sunnah. The fact that they do not call for the one true Aqeedah and accept everyone into their group regardless of his beliefs is a flaw itself, because if they are not bound and united by the correct Aqeedah, the basic belief which makes a Muslim who he is, then what does unite them? I know that they might have good intentions and they only want to call other Muslims to practice Islam, but their ignorance makes them go about it in the wrong way, not to mention that if a person is ignorant, then what knowledge can he teach others if he hasn’t gained it himself from its proper sources? I”ve had several ‘encounters’ with Tablighis, which only showed me that their “good manners” which they all seem to have is merely the bait that they use to lure people into their group, but in reality when they are confronted (or confront others) then their true manners come out, which unfortunately I saw during one incident when a 14-15 year old brother who is a hafidh led the prayer at the masjid because the usual imam didn’t show up, so after the prayer the Tablighis along with their ‘leader’ made a huge problem about it that this kid can not lead prayer and how everyone’s prayer was not acceptable, even though they are obviously wrong about this and the authentic texts from the sunnah are clear on this, but because of their ignorance, they made a problem because this young brother led the prayer, and they obviously wanted their own ‘leader’ to lead the prayer instead, even if he doesn’t know as much Quran as the hafidh or if he doesn’t know how to recite it properly. That doesn’t mean I am saying that ALL Tablighis are bad mannered, nor are they all good mannered, I think you will find both kinds of people in every group or sect just as you would find it in every religion as well, but in general, that “good manners” thing that everyone is talking about is only superficial and used as bait to lure people in. So I know that the Tablighis want to do good and that they just want to do some effort in calling Muslims back to practicing Islam, and even if they aren’t all ‘Deobandi-Hanafi’ yet most of them are, and you will not find any salafi for example going out with them and being part of their gatherings, and what I mean by that is not just going out with them while keeping his mouth shut, but speaking out and teaching everyone about the correct Aqeedah, because he will never be accepted by the Tablighis to be in their group because their whole group is based on the principles that they do not talk about Aqeedah at all nor call for the correct Aqeedah, not to mention that many of them have the incorrect Aqeedah as well (long story which I won’t mention here, but because of their lack of knowledge and since they never actually care to acquire any knowledge and are more into just going out to ‘give dawah’ without having the proper knowledge, they lack the proper beliefs in even some of the basic things of Aqeedah). Imam Bukhari in his Sahih titled one of the chapters and called it: Knowledge (is pre-conditional) before speaking and action. And the fact that the Tablighi methodology is based on jumping in and claiming to do ‘dawah’ by going around and calling others before they even gain any knowledge what so ever is enough to make the Tablighis fall into this trap and go astray because they speak and act without acquiring the correct knowledge from its proper sources first and foremost. So separating between Aqeedah and the methodology of dawah is wrong, because the first thing that every person should call for before anything else is the proper Aqeedah, and the first thing that every Prophet (peace be upon them all) called to was the correct Aqeedah and basic beliefs which are what make a person a Muslim, so to completely ignore the call to Tawhid and calling people to the correct Aqeedah and yet claim that this is ‘dawah’ is not the correct methodology of going about things, and this is why this effort of the Tablighis is not correct, because if they really want to call others to Allah, then they first need to start learning the correct knowledge, and then go about spreading it. To give the Tablighis justice though and be fair, that doesn’t mean they have not done anything good, no they have done some good things, but overall, their mistakes are greater than the good which they have done, and they still are one of the 72 sects which are not upon the sunnah and the straight path.
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 26, 2010 at 7:05 AM
Sorry akhi thats a mistake on my behalf.
But i think that the person who really has been exposed for there terrible ‘refutation’ of the tablighi jamaat is you. Going through your posts were laughable and the statement that tablighi jamaat have no scholars again exposed you. (i advise anyone to check them out below)
wasalam
Hassan
April 26, 2010 at 7:26 AM
I think its quite self evident who is exposed and who is not.
And read my reply to your comment when you mentioned “scholars”, I do not want to go down this path, as it should have been obvious that there are differences deeper than just tablighi jamaat.
Take care.
Hassan
April 26, 2010 at 7:29 AM
So we agree on something…
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 26, 2010 at 8:58 AM
Yes the difference is a accept where i am wrong and on the issues of scholars there was no response.
”You know what, .., never mind, may Allah guide us all to the true path of Quran and Sunnah. You are innocent, and I do not want to damage that. So lets leave it there.”
I don’t know about you but that is not a response to the points that i put forward. And I do not see myself as a radicalised supporter of tabligh (not saying you called me that) but rather i spent 1 year in darul uloom dewsbury which is england’s markez. i had many differences with them but when reading your comments some of the flaws you pulled out were plainly not true.
wasalam
Hassan
April 26, 2010 at 9:59 AM
Just stating they are not true, would not cut it. I have experienced them first hand, and also close friends who have experienced something similar.
Regarding the “scholar” thingy, I apologize for not not being clear, but I thought it would have become obvious, that when it comes to Islam, I do not take my religion from deobandi scholars.
Khan(i was a hanafi tableeghi for almost a decade)
April 17, 2010 at 6:10 AM
http://www.AHYA.org
Subhaanallah,
i was just writing the opinion of the statements and Fatawaa of the noble Allaamahs’ Shaykh Ibn Baaz , Shaykh Ibn al-‘Uthaymeen, Muhammed Ibn Ibraaheem Aal-ash-Shaykh, Shaykh Muhammed Naasiruddeen al-Albaanee, Shaykh, ‘Abdur-Razzaaq ‘Afeefee, Fatwa Shaykh Saalih Ibn Fowzaan al-Fowzaan regarding the Tableeghi Jamaath and hte Deobandees….
Email me at sfaizu@yahoo.com to receive them…
Farooq
April 17, 2010 at 6:23 AM
http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/understanding-priorities/
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:36 AM
LOL, ikhwani mentality indeed.
Khan(i was a hanafi tableeghi for almost a decade) http://www.ahya.org/tjonline/index.html
April 17, 2010 at 6:33 AM
http://www.ahya.org/tjonline/index.html
MY REQUEST TO ALL THE VIEWERS IS TO PLEASE GO THROUGH THE ABOVE LINK WHICH HAS POSTS/BOOKS IN BOTH ENGLISH AND URDU…….. AND I HOPE AND PRAY FERVENTLY THAT INSHA’ALLAH ALL WILL SEE THE TRUTH IN THE LIGHT OF QURAN AND SAHIH HADITH REGARDING THE DEOBANDEE TABLEEGHIS ETC.
I was a member of this group for almost a decade and i am from India, the heart of Tableeghi Jamaath and Deobandism etc,,, and i have sacrificed my precious time in the group.
It was only later when i came across this vcd of ‘Fazail e Namaaz” by Shaikh Meraaj Rabbani Hafidhahullah that just within a little duration of still watching that vcd, the ground beneath me shook and i was terrified and Allah Subhaana wata’aala is my Witness i was crying and weeping for days thinking that what i have been doing for all these years,,,,?? what will i say to my Lord when i meet him on the day of Qiyaamah which is the ‘Day of Increase’…as to my deeds?? i did not eat food properly till i almost watched all the parts of the series…i underwent intense severe trauma for months on end that i cannot explain and again Allah Subhaanahu wata’aalaa is my witness…
We used to have daily taleem at our local mosque of the fazail e aamaal instead of the Dars e quran or the Dars e Hadith and also every night after dinner at my home for more than an hour religiously…
I had (may Allah forgive me) memorised almost the entire Fazail-e-aamaal, but Allah Subhaanahu wataa’aalaa saved me,…
The problem i m talking with them is not the differences regarding the fiqh related matters etc but regarding the Aqeedah matters… pls pls pls go through the above link and DOWNLOAD THE BOOK,
JAMAAT TABLEEGH and the Deobandis – A Critical analysis of their Beliefs, Books and Dawah.
(English) – Compiled by Sajid a Kayum
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:15 AM
One of the many “stories” told to me by tablighis (either when I went with them, or when they were trying to impress me), is that there was a guy who was for some reason in jungle, and he was trying to look for humans, but could not find (or reach them in time), and then the time of “bayan” set in. So he started giving bayan and all the animals came and listened to him, and left.
Karama? Perhaps. But why he had to give bayan when there was no body there, it is not like prayer that time has come in you have to pray.
Are tableeghis sincere? Ofcourse, who am I to say they are not. Are they doing hardwork? Ofcourse they are. Are they bringing people to right track? No, they are bringing them to tableeghi track not Quran and Sunnah.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:23 AM
Sh Waleed Basyouni (hafidullah), I am sure Sheikh Abu Eesa Niamatullah knows him, is giving a series of lecture on dhikar, its rulings etc. in his masjid (He did something similar in last Ilmsummit).
One of the thing he said, that there are specific adhkaar (with time/place and wording combination), like adkhaar after prayer, etc. Then there are general adhkaar, which you can do anytime. But you can specify certain time for certain dhikar, unless its from Quran and Sunnah. Meaning I can not say, I would recite certain words 10 times at 3:45pm.
While tablighi jamat goes out for jawla, one of them has to sit in masjid doing dhikar. So that violates the above prinicinpal. Moreover before they are leaving, they make a circle and face each other and make dua for success etc.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:29 AM
Also, tablighis are very good at character assisination, they have very strong network for spreading misinformation and lies of common or scholars. (for example, Sh Waleed being government agent etc).
Also, whenever I have encountered them, my inside resources from far away has told me they talk bad about me in my absence in their “karguzari” (status meeting would be best translation).
Wael - IslamicAnswers.com
April 19, 2010 at 12:40 AM
Like you talk bad about them?
Hassan
April 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM
I hope it is common sense that criticizing a group as a whole is different than singling out individuals and slandering them,
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:33 AM
To further talk about their cultish mentality, when we talk in any other language than our own, there would be a need for it.
In islamic dawah/work/academic we use arabic for words that we perhaps can not translate appropiately, or either they have “sharia” terms.
Now why in an America, with all sort of black/white/arabs/desis sitting, an african american brother is trying his best to pronounce “karguzari”? Its just a tablighi term, it has no shairah value, and it can be easily translated.
They have whole dictionary of tablighi lingo, many are very fun words, I must admit, but this just shows that they are cult, eitherwise they would be talking quran and sunnah lingo, or plain human language of culture.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:40 AM
“Going on jamaat for 4 months, its like hajj, you would be like the day you were born” – a tablighi
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:42 AM
Their extreme dislikeness of knowledge. A jamaat got hold of me, and I was talking politely and decently, and mentioned something related to knowledge, and the ameer said, knowledge comes and goes, its not important, what is important is emaan.
I just recited ayat linking knowledge with emaan and left.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:46 AM
Similarly, Sh Waleed used to give a weekly lecture, in a very central masjid of Houston, which had lot of diverse people, but more tableeghis I would say. The lecture would be after either maghrib or isha (depending on daylight thingy). Once the imam of masjid says salam, without any delay, tablighis would stand and leave the masjid, and do their own thing outside. Once I even heard murmurs from one of them while he was standing and leaving, saying something to the effect, (in urdu I am translating), I do not why this guy (Sh Waleed) keeps showing up.
Amad
April 19, 2010 at 12:54 AM
And how many times did you or me stay for the Tablighi halaqa? And how many times did we say, “yaqeen and iman… here we go again, why do they keep showing up with the same show?”
It is difficult to put someone in others shoes, but until we do that, we won’t realize that sometimes we do exactly the same thing and are perceived exactly the same negative way that we are perceiving others….
Hassan
April 19, 2010 at 10:37 AM
You are right, they do not want to listen to sh waleed because what he says makes no sense to them, and I do not listen to tablighis, because what they say does not make sense to me. (I have sat thru many of their talks by the way)
Ya`qub
April 25, 2010 at 10:49 AM
Assalamu `alaykum
This is a pretty exaggerated generalization. While there might be some ignorant brothers who do the effort of tabligh, there are likewise other ignorant brothers who don’t do the effort.
Their elders constantly call them to establish classes (hifhd, `alim, etc…), which if you had a look around you would see that this has been followed. In one city in my country many hafidh of Qur’an have done their hifdh course at a ‘tablighi’ madrasah and there are so many now that they have spares during tarawih cause some of them to be sent to other cities.
The third quality which they constantly repeat is `ilm wa dhikr. They mention the need of seeking knowledge and the virtues.
Like I said, you may find ignorant people doing the effort of tabligh but you can’t take this and paint everyone doing the effort with the same brush.
Also, sometimes people might say something which we might take out of context. For example, some brothers are in the habit of wasting their time in debates over issues of fiqh or aqeedah. While these subjects are important, what is not important is for non-scholars to debate these issues (if I remember correctly, Imam Maalik considered it haram for the common people to debate religious matters). So a brother might tell others to not talk about these things as they are not beneficial for ones eeman, but they might see him as downplaying the seeking of `ilm.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:51 AM
Tablighis definitely try to teach basics well, like when I was with them, they asked me to memorize some quran and recite to them. Also they asked me to recite to them “qunut”. Which I did recite them to qunut, only issue was that the guy was somewhat confused with my qunut and he said, no this is not qunut, and gave me different qunut. (hanafi version). Anyway, I do not mind knowing both. But the guy should have known better as well.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 7:52 AM
So basically as I said before, they would want you to become certain way, any deviation is not good. I must become deobandi-hanafi-tablighi with them, otherwise they would have issue with me.
Ya`qub
April 25, 2010 at 10:56 AM
Brother, this is incorrect that they want everyone to be a ‘deobandi-hanafi-tablighi’.
I have seen many jamaats from different madhahib, etc. Just recently a jamaat from Oman came who were ibadi’s. Not too long before that a jamaat came from Saudi, whom I guess were ‘Salafis’. Many jamaats have come from Singapore, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, etc.. who follow the Shafi’i madhab, likewise with some of the elders in my country who also follow the Shafi’i madhab.
Hassan
April 25, 2010 at 11:43 AM
ibadi’s.. interesting
Ya`qub
April 25, 2010 at 11:44 PM
Just to clarify… Not عبادی but اباضی
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 8:00 AM
Who are the stars of tablighi jamaat? Saeed Anwar, Inzimam-ul-Haq (I love both, very good batsman), Junaid Jamshed (ex singer, alhamdulillah does not sing with music anymore, and sing only good things), unfortunately they are not scholars though.
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 20, 2010 at 5:29 AM
That is the most ridiculous thing i have heard. Many scholars are part of tabligh or because of tabligh pursued their scholarly journey. Just because they are not on tv or you are not aware of them doesn’t mean they do not exist. sheikh tariq jamil, sheikh yusuf darwan, Mufti sachah etc. are just a few of the top of my head.
Hassan
April 20, 2010 at 7:07 AM
Ok, I think Tariq Jamil was doctor or something, did not study islam, and I do not know about the two others (wow just 3 people). But it seems Mufti Sachah must have done “mufti” course to become mufti. Once I met a brother who was 23 years of age and had done mufti course, and was called mufti.
(What I am saying may not make sense to you, and I am not trying, only if you think yourself)
Zeeshan Ahmed
April 22, 2010 at 7:22 AM
Molana Tariq Jamil has studied islamic education. He was a student of Sheikh yusuf ludhanvi (if you dont know who he is then check him up he’s really famous) and Mufti Sacha has been called one of the main muftis of europe by mufti taqi uthmani. Also he was the main sheikh on the gmwa halal food guide. And to say only three again is plain innorance of the work. i can name you many if you want. The whole askimam.org team practice or support tableegh. Yes criticize the effort when you are sure there is a flaw. Not ridiculous comments like there are no scholars.
wasalam.
Hassan
April 22, 2010 at 10:46 AM
You know what, .., never mind, may Allah guide us all to the true path of Quran and Sunnah. You are innocent, and I do not want to damage that. So lets leave it there.
Abs
April 17, 2010 at 8:03 AM
This is a topic I used to get extremely enthused about a few years ago. I used to debate with a friend of mine who would criticize them a bit too harshly, I thought. I was a fervent defender of the Tablighis, though I had never been with them, but for my love of da’wah I would defend them.
Then came a day in which I went with them, and as someone who’s used to listening to Sahih hadiths and proper ‘ilm, it would make me cringe to sit around there and listen to some of the fallacies that were being said. And even though there was a student of knowledge present he was silent and never corrected what was obviously incorrect.
I don’t defend the Jamat now, I pray that Allah rewards them for their good deeds, and guides them to better methods of da’wa and ambition.
I don’t agree with the methods of their critics either: “Don’t say salam to a tablighi”, and I was extremely pained when I heard someone label them “mujrimeen” in complete dismissal of all the good that they do.
Whether you’re for or against the tablighi brothers, I think the poem above has a few wonderful reminders to us all.
And whether you’re for them or against them, we are all brothers; that is the gift and beauty of Islam!
Wael - IslamicAnswers.com
April 19, 2010 at 12:45 AM
Abs, thank you for posting a fair comment recognizing the work they do but also pointing out some of their flaws. I can relate to a comment like this because I see you have no axe to grind and you are being fair Insha’Allah.
And like you said, the poem has many powerful reminders, whether one supports the JT or not.
Human
April 17, 2010 at 8:32 AM
As-salamu Alaykum… I have read most of the comments on here… No one’s really provided any solid evidence against the tablighi jama’at. I’m open to new ideas and love to research into different areas….
I’ve seen some of the pdfs, they do not provide any concrete evidence. It merely seems like a persons opinions…
Khan(i was a hanafi tableeghi for almost a decade) http://www.ahya.org/tjonline/index.html
April 17, 2010 at 8:53 AM
SUBHAANALLAH Human,
u have gone through the entire pdf of almost 100+++ pages i have sent so soon?… i challenge u that every page has so many proofs from the quran and sahih hadith… pls take ur time and read them… thats my humble request…. there r quotes right from all of their high ranking ”scholars???” and books!!!
heres the link once again….
the book â€JAMAAT TABLEEGH and the Deobandis – A Critical analysis of their Beliefs, Books and Dawahâ€.
(English) – Compiled by Sajid a Kayum.
http://www.ahya.org/tjonline/index.html
(pls pls pls go through the above link and DOWNLOAD THE BOOK-it’s hardly 1.5mb i think You owe it now upon urself to print and read this book and spread it…,)
Abdus-Sabur
April 20, 2010 at 1:17 AM
Is not Imam Ghazali considered a sufi? Correct me if I am wrong, please…..but do politely.
I have downloaded the .pdf and will read it to completion. Jazakallahu khair for sharing.
Subzero
April 17, 2010 at 8:49 AM
SubhanAllah, I can’t believe some of the generalizations being made here. =/ Without a doubt, TJs have done much good for the ummah, but that doesn’t mean they are flawless. May Allah guide us all. Ameen. Loved the poem.
unknown
April 17, 2010 at 8:54 AM
Assalamu ‘alaikum,
It is true that tabligh jamaat have their faults. Some of the tabligh jamaat have stopped using fadhail amal which does contain fabricated hadith and have started reading muntakhab hadith.
I also think that it is not correct to say that they raise their 4 mths thing to the status of hajj. Many of young ‘tablighis’ I came across have performed their hajj.
Many ‘salafi’ ustadh have also gone on jamaat as it is indeed a good way to convey and at the same time remove the errors in TJ.
TJ from arab countries are generally knowledgeable.
Allahu a’lam
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 9:09 AM
The reward of going 4 months, not the obligation. Even raising and suggesting reward for going out 4 months is absurd.
unknown
April 19, 2010 at 10:47 AM
No they dont say that…
Hassan
April 19, 2010 at 10:58 AM
Ok, the ones I talked to did. I guess if they do not say in their books, then we can consider it not. Thats the only solution.
Ahmed
April 17, 2010 at 9:15 AM
Im not sure why MM is taking or allowing this stance. Im usually used to a nice relatively neutral presentation from you guys or at least a caring we need to help each other attitude. Sure these people are criticized and sure they have somewhat good intentions but I feel like they’re methods have skewed over time. Sure you get a spiritual high but Im not sure how long that lasts. Islam isnt about turtling down in a masjid and hoping allah gives you bounty. And yes I did hear exactly something like this: “Sit in the masjid, read Quran, and Allah will put $100 in your lap!!!”. Islam is about logic and living your life with Islam flowing in your blood rather than injected into it periodically.
Amad
April 17, 2010 at 9:25 AM
We are not taking any positions. Merely cross-posting a poem that talks good about other Muslims, via a Shaykh that we love and trust.
For every weird example that you can highlight, I am sure there are examples of Muslims returning to practicing their religion. Let’s keep the latter in mind.
Ahmed
April 17, 2010 at 4:21 PM
Alright. I can accept that. Just dont fall into a position where you’re worshiping a shaykh rather than Allah. People are doing it, you cant deny that. Its true that people do return but its one thing to return as a Muslim that is using Islam as a way of life and another to return as a Muslim that does everything for a spiritual high.
Leo
April 17, 2010 at 7:11 PM
Brother Amad- I think you should have known that a poem that talks good about “other muslims” is gonna produce bad comments about “other Muslims”
Leo
April 17, 2010 at 7:18 PM
Did Abu Eesa actually write the poem? It has “Anon” attached to the title.
Ahmad AlFarsi
April 17, 2010 at 9:26 PM
You are correct brother, Sh. Abu Eesa did not write the poem. It was written by an anonymous author and Sh. Abu Eesa liked it and originally posted it on his blog.
Abusafiyah
April 19, 2010 at 4:21 AM
@Amad
You and the Sheikh are really confused…you post this poem in favour of a organisation/group that has a known misguided aqeedah which i understand you don’t agree with. However you post harsh comments against another sheikh because he shares a different opinion on fiqhi issues….check yourself and your intentions
May Allah guide us all
Zachaira
April 17, 2010 at 9:18 AM
as salaamu alaikum,
You guys are “salafi” and talking about character assassination by tablighis…If that is not the pot calling the kettle black I don’t know what. Well don’t worry about them because you guys have “proper ilm”, straight from books divorced from tradition…enjoy it.
Amad
April 17, 2010 at 9:24 AM
who are “you guys”? There are all sorts of characters that may claim to follow a certain methodology. Generalization by you is as effective as the generalization that you bemoan.
Amad
April 17, 2010 at 9:22 AM
Pls read this before commenting further:
1) There is a time and place for everything. In this post, we are appreciating the good that emanates from these brothers.
2) The person who originally posted this was Abu Esa, so please respect that fact.
3) If you have a comment, please don’t break it up into 15 sub-comments, unless you are responding to someone else. It becomes difficult to follow and feels a bit spammish
4) This post was not done to give an opportunity to bash TJs. Further comments along that line, and we’ll just have to moderate.
Read this 2-part post: Turning Away from the Faults of Others Part-1 | Part-2
I am not saying TJs are perfect, but I would rather have a Muslim world that is composed of 99% TJs, than one composed of non-practicing Muslims (probably 50%+) or a lot of other sects. You aren’t going to turn people on or off them by mentioning good or bad about them respectively in a few comments. So, focus on Prophet (S)’s command, “speak a good word or remain quiet”
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 9:43 AM
I am not going to comment any further, but I am just curious about the concept of blog. Ofcourse the author is appreciating their hardwork, why are you saying only post comments non-critical of the tableeghis and appreciating them? Why can not we post a message disagreeing with the author? I mean if that is the case, you can just keep a personal diary and write your thoughts if you do not want people to comment either for or against. I just do not understand..
Amad
April 17, 2010 at 9:57 AM
Critical links have been provided, and your criticism has also been left here. But what if some other tablighi blog had posted a story on the positive things about AlMaghrib and all people did was to post trash about them, instead of even appreciating the intent of the post. Would you like that? I would not and I don’t think you would. So, let’s give people the respect that we demand from them.
Each blog post has a “spirit” associated with it. This is intended to be in a positive spirit.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 10:06 AM
No actually I would not be surprised at all, if they post trash about people with they do not agree at all. And I would not be hurt either, because the fact there are tableeghis is hurting already.
Ok good. Insha’Allah I would wait for an academic critique of Tableeghis on muslimmatters (definitely needs to be in respectful way).
Shariq
April 17, 2010 at 2:15 PM
Brother Amad. assalaamu alaikum. it is quite dissappointing to see this praise of the TJ’s here. your line of reasoning, while it might seem correct to you, is not correct here in this instance. This is not just a case of the “madkhalis” being harsh unjustly, although i would advise you sincerely for using that term as none of the respected mashayikh who might disagree with shaikh rabee’ would ever use that. anyway, back to the topic, this isnt a case of being unwisely harsh. If you want to refer to people other than those whom you consider “madhkhali” i would suggest to go to any of the well known ahlil hadeeth mashayikh in India (that is where TJ started) and see what they have to say. additionally, i have read their criticism from all the major scholars, such as shaikh albaani, bin baz, fawzaan, muqbil, abdul muhsin al abbaad and others. are these from the “madhkhali’s” that you are talking about? i know that shaikh ibn baaz had some conflicting fatwa’s out there about them, but the last one he gave, after becoming aware of their fundamentals criticised them like other deviant groups.
But, apart from all of this, the reply you gave can now be used to defend anyone and everyone, since all groups have some khair in them and according to who you are, lots of khair. Sure i understand that you are not that harsh in your criticism, as you recognize people’s sincere intentions, but at the end of the day if they are misguided, then you have to point that out first and foremost.
The TJ’s have serious problems in their foundations. it is agreed that they are not the same in every part of the world, but we are not talking about that, rather we are talking about the core of their beliefs and what they were established upon. It was established by sufi’s with innovated methods of dawah. I am personally a witness to the fact (i am from india) that their dawah, in india atleast, wherever it has been, hasnt removed shirk, hasnt corrected the aqeedah of the people it has touched, hasnt brought them form bidah into sunnah.
At the end of the day brother, i would like to advise you to not defend them the way you have as they are an innovated group at their core and the defense you have used can be applied to any and every group. which would in my opinion result in lots of confusion and chaos. if you were to just look at little closer at the issue you will find that majority of the respected scholars of ahlus sunnah criticized them and in shaikh al baani’s words, they are the sufiyyah of this era (not a compliment). if this is the case, then this defense is wrong and out of place.
Allah knows best.
Amad
April 17, 2010 at 2:44 PM
Can you please point out where I used the term “madkhali” in my comments?
If TJs are innovated at the core, then I shudder to think of what the shia might be or the habashis or some of the other groups that are 180 degrees away from ahl sunnah.
Shariq
April 17, 2010 at 3:12 PM
@ Amad (couldnt seem to reply to your comment, so i am replying to mine): sorry brother, i apologize. i thought you had used the term “madhkhali” but it was actually somebody else.
jazakAllahkhair.
Khan(i was a hanafi tableeghi for almost a decade) http://www.ahya.org/tjonline/index.html
April 17, 2010 at 9:48 AM
My dear Brother Amad…
Just because a Shaykh wanted to highlight the “good? points of tablighi jamaath” in a very much open public blog where so many ppl are reading this like ‘human’ here for example and i was also reading the (http://alternativeentertainment.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/in-defence-of-the-tjs/#comment-10128)
where some guy says and challenges that before he did not want to but now HE IS INSPIRED TO go for chillah 40 days? in jamaath.
now that u r showing the positive side of these tablighis… in the same vein and sporty attitude u have… pls post their aqeedahs and methodologies etcetcetc…. its a request… do justice pls…
he following is an extract from the book ”JAMAAT TABLEEGH and the
Deobandis – A Critical analysis of their Beliefs, Books and Dawah”.
(English) – Compiled by Sajid a Kayum.
http://www.ahya.org/tjonline/index.html
(pls pls pls go through the above link and DOWNLOAD THE BOOK-it’s hardly
1.5mb i think You owe it now upon urself to print and read this book and spread
it…,)
-Edited. You have been allowed to provide the link for you POV. Now let people judge for themselves.
Abu Hadeed
April 17, 2010 at 9:33 AM
One thing is for sure what ever the down falls might be of the Tablighi brothers, they are a million times better than the madkhalis.
Madkhali cult did severe damage to the dawah of as-salafiyyah in the west, this resulted in dozens of Muslims flocking to ranks of the Sufi’s.
Alhamdulilah they are now been marginalized the dawah of as-salafiyyah is once again been revived by institutions such as Al-Kauthar and Al-Maghrib.
May Allah azza wa jalla reward them!
Ameen
Gohar
April 17, 2010 at 3:12 PM
I think that’s unfair myself. Just as there are multitudes of muslims who either stayed in touch with Islam or even better returned to Islam through JT, there are also many muslims who returned and educated themselves through the work of those particular salafies too. Both have their benefits and downsides.
Saif
April 17, 2010 at 9:56 AM
SubhanAllah! Sure the tableeghis have faults (Even current Deobandi shuyukh have said this and have urged reform), but one must appreciate their efforts. How many of us can leave the safety and comfort of our present lives and travel to Somalia/Sudan/Rwanda/Tibet etc. to give da’wa and reform ourselves? The Prophet sallahu alayhi wassalam said, ”Speak good word or remain quietâ€. The one who goes out sincerely in the way of Allah – his/her reward is with Allah – and no criticism will harm them inshaAllah.
Furthermore, through the effort of the tableeghis, many of the bid’ah practices in the Indian subcontinent (e.g. grave worshipping, fraudulent pirs etc.) have been uprooted.
May Allah have mercy on Maulana Ilyas (the founder of TJ) who himself highlighted the importance of balance between ilm and dhikr:
“All your Tabligh activities will be of no avail if, along with them, you do not pay proper attention to Ilm (knowledge) and Dhikr (remembrance of Allah). Ilm and Dhikr are the two wings without which one cannot fly in these surroundings. What is more, if Ilm and Dhikr are neglected, this endeavour may become a new source of mischief. Without Ilm, Islam and Iman are a mere formality, and without Dhikr, Ilm is darkness. Effluence is produced in Ilm by Dhikr and the real fruits of Dhikr are gained only when Ilm, too, is there. The Devil often makes the ignorant sufis his tools. The importance of Ilm and Dhikr should therefore, not be overlooked in this regard otherwise the Tablighi endeavour will end up in waywardness, and, Allah forbid, you will be in great loss.â€
And the post from Shaykh Suhaib’s blog – that is simply brilliant. The sooner we stop being cyber-jihadis and start practicing and inviting others to haq and sabr, the sooner the muslim ummah will be lifted from it’s current state of loss. And all success if from Allah.
Amad
April 17, 2010 at 10:01 AM
Why travel to such hard places when you could do jarh wa tardeel or cyberjihad on your laptop in your dad’s basement… if you are upon “haq”, your actions go further anyway :)
Saif
April 17, 2010 at 10:19 AM
Salaam Amad,
Hope you are well and Jazak Allah for the comment.
As mentioned, the methods can be disagreed with no doubt but the effort and sincerity should be appreicated. The TJs are giving da’wa in places like khyrgistan and other former soviet states where da’wa is hard to come by. It’s of course important to focus first on your own community first (which the TJ back home in Bangladesh at least do) but at least they are bringing the light of the deen to those areas.
Sayf
April 17, 2010 at 12:56 PM
there can be only ONE sayf
I challenge you to a duel!!
Saif
April 17, 2010 at 3:05 PM
You don’t know what you are up against bro! I will give you j***d!
suhail
April 20, 2010 at 10:16 AM
Yes Brother i agree. You can differ with the Tablighi Jamat in many ways or even think that some of the things they do is not upto the point but one thing is for sure that the people who go out have feeling for Islam and are hard workers who have intentions to please Allah (SWT).
If we feel that there is something wrong we should address those points rather than deter people from performing dawah. I have gone with TJ quite a bit and I did not like the way every layman is put on stage to give a talk but still I love the brothers and sisters who are with TJ.
We should pray for our brothers and sisters who perform this dawah. I have seen TJ brothers go to places i would never know a muslim exists there. Once we went into an alcohol shop and the person there was a muslim from Eqypt or something. The lead in our Jamah talked to him and asked him to come pray with us in the mosque. He did came for 2 days and who knows his life may have changed. Similarly i have had so many incident where we met people in such places that you would never think about.
I have not seen any other group of people doing this difficult job. So we should appreciate there efforts and if we think there is some problems we should try to rectify them in a reasonable manner.
anon.
April 17, 2010 at 11:05 AM
You guys wouldn’t believe how many salafi ulama and dozens of saudi ulama support and themselves go out in jama’ah masha Allah. Ask any serious saudi to confirm. The vast majority of today’s ulama support this effort.
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 11:41 AM
Do you have any proof for that? I was told the same thing, few years back by a tablighi to encourage/influence my thinking, and I was like perhaps Saudia has become tableeghi heaven perhaps since I left the country (I lived long enough there to see that they were just few marginal desis going on jamaat secretly). But when I went back, and travelled all over, I could not find their claims to have any substance. So basically they were perhaps “lying”?
Saif
April 17, 2010 at 12:19 PM
Salaam Hassan,
Hope you are well akhi.
Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen’s own fatwa seems to be quite supportive/lenient:
http://www.banglakitab.com/ShaikhUtheymenTablighAnswer.htm
In addition to that, just as an example, a year back two salafi saudi aalims came down and stayed at our local mosque in Bangladesh. They had halaqaat everyday and would go out to the neighbourhood with the local brothers encouraging the community to come to these halaqaat and to support their da’wa.
elham
April 17, 2010 at 1:56 PM
so Shaikh Uthaymeen (rahimahullah) made a difference between the Tablighis in Saudi and Tablighis in other countries?
Saif
April 17, 2010 at 3:13 PM
Salaam Akhi,
Hope you are well inshaAllah.
Allahu Aalim! The impression I got was that the Shaykh did not know about the subcontinental TJs (he was unsure of their aqeedah/manhaj) so he abstained from commenting out of his scruplousness, may Allah have mercy on him. As for Saudi TJs, since he saw and had knowledge of the fruits of their work, he praised them. (That’s just my impression).
Anyway, these debates will keep going and going and going. We should focus our priorities elsewhere as per the blog entry from http://www.suhaibwebb.com.
Ma’asalaama!
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 3:05 PM
Even if you count the statement by Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen (in case it is authentic), it is still not very supportive, but lets still give you that. And plus 2 “salafi” saudi aalims (name and details please), thats 3 (3 with best effort of stretch).
So kindly do not project an impression which is not true by extreme exaggeration
Saif
April 17, 2010 at 3:13 PM
Salaam Hassan,
I wasn’t the one who posted this comment. So please don’t accuse me of ‘extreme exaggeration’.
Your brother,
Hassan
April 17, 2010 at 3:23 PM
Sorry, Saif, I mixed your support by the previous comment.
hayat
April 17, 2010 at 3:08 PM
I wish if we have any strong islamic jemma , hear i do not care who now days you go there u go other place and take the ilm and keep quite. becaouse while we muslim arug of tabig sunni wehabi shey bayi name it…. others profit to destroy us.
so it is better respect one another our difference .
May Allha bring peace love and kair. for muslim uma
Abdullah
April 17, 2010 at 3:23 PM
Assalam uAlaikum
Abdullah
April 17, 2010 at 3:26 PM
Assalam uAlaikum
Whatever your stance is please don’t bash other people. Sure everyone has problems and mistakes that they need to fix.
You readily point out the mistake that’s like a stick in your brother yet you fail to recognize the log thats in yourself?
As far as I understand, Tablighi Jamaat is for one purpose:
To build a person’s spirituality and to teach him the simple basics of islam, i.e. to get a person to repent to Allah, start praying, doing dhikr, reading Quran, becoming inclined toward the deen and calling others do to the same. Thats it! Now if you want to build upon that foundation of repentance, then of course you must seek knowledge and build upon that and that requires sitting with the scholars and people of knowledge. That is one place where I disagree with the Jamatis–There needs to be more knowledge besides the fazail e amaal and of course it goes without saying that this will clear up the improper practices in jamaat.
Also, I don’t see whats wrong with sitting in the masjid for a few days, reading Quran and hadtih, praying in Jamaat, starting the habit of praying tahajjud, and going out and visiting brothers and inviting them to the masjid. At the end of the day the purpose is simple, to build one’s sprituality and get closer to Allah (swt). Just think if it as an extended ‘itikaaf :) .
Abdullah
April 17, 2010 at 10:51 PM
SubhanAllah, Brother Khan I downloaded the book and read about 130 pages of it already. The proofs from the Quran and Hadith are tremendously overwhelming! No one can argue against these proofs and I have to admit that I myself was guilty of believing some of these things. And the crazy thing is that these ideas that are propagated are done so stealthily by embedding them in stories, so that they bypass the conscious mind and go straight to the subconscious.
Brother Khan, All I can say is that JazakAllah Khair for giving us the link to read this book and guiding toward the Quran and Sunnah. It has cleared up many misconceptions in my mind and definitely set my straight.
May Allah reward you with abundant good.
Of course, I do have to give credit to the person that wrote the poem. Very nicely written amigo(s) :)
Ify Okoye
April 17, 2010 at 4:23 PM
…and the male is not like the female… (Ale Imran: 36)
It never ceases to amaze how these discussions animate some of our brothers and are almost completely devoid of sisters. I wonder if it has more to do with ego than with gender?
Umm Reem
April 17, 2010 at 5:50 PM
good point :)
I remember Muhammad al-Shareef making similar observation about a heated discussion on almaghrib forums some time ago…
elham
April 17, 2010 at 8:16 PM
Someone might the same about us sisters’ barrage of thoughts on relationships/marriage related posts :D
Zuhayr
April 17, 2010 at 5:29 PM
aslamo alaikum
Those of us who study in intellectual arrogance,
Forget Rumi’s tales of the lover’s simple acceptance,
The intellect is still looking for its transportation,
Love has circled the Ka’ba 7 times in dedication
suhail
April 17, 2010 at 6:47 PM
I am amazed at the response of brothers over here on Tabligeehi Jamat. The history of TJ is important to understand them and the need for it. In British India the hindus started the program of “Shiddikaran” i.e. bringing muslims back to hinduism. Since many rural muslims had no tarbiyah in Islam and were afflicted with a lot of shirki things it was easy to persuade them back to hinduism.
Maulana Ilyas saw that and he started this movement to send people in rural India who would call muslims to 6 simple things which included Salah. Siyam , and other points that TJ work on.
It was started as a response to certain events in Indian subcontinent. It did work out with great success. You have to go to India or Pakistan to see its success as the brother affiliated with TJ have worked really hard.
This cannot be said about the salafis at all. After the martyrdom of Shah Ismail Shaheed that Ahle-hadith movement lost its teeth quite a bit. When they were in forefront of Jihad against the British empire they slumped back.
Now to current day the TJ’s have used the same methodology that Maulana Ilyas propounded.
You can critique the brothers methodology but be just with Allah’s creation brothers and sisters. These brothers have worked hard and Allah has changed many muslims on there hands. We should give the credit to them for this. And if we see any fault we should advice them with humility and in a good way.
May Allah help the brothers from TJ in there dawah , reciify there faults and guide them to what pleases him. May Allah guide all of us to what pleases him the most.
Haysia
April 17, 2010 at 8:28 PM
Bismillahirrahmanirrahim
I have been living in the circle of tablighis since I was young.My family is not practicing tabligh per se,but my uncle and my auntie are hard-core tablighis.Indirectly,we are somewhat influenced by tabligh jamaah (we read muntakhab ahadith before maghrib,we listen to bayan and ta’alim every Sunday).
I used to join their program for woman (3 days jihad they called it,the number of days varies though).And I didnt see anything wrong with it.We sat and listened to hadeeth,performed solah promptly,do dzikr,mujahadah,practicing sunnah etc.It was somehow an effort I made for jihad-binnafsi.It seemed difficult at first to resist temptations and teach yourself mujahadah.You focus on your spirituality and you wont have interference with the outside world.
I used to argue with my uncle about the current method of da’wah used (Da’wah through music).He said its okay to have different approaches (though he opposed those with instruments) nevertheless it is still crucial for us to practice what Prophet SAW had done before.
By having Tablighi jamaah,we are somewhat ‘completed’ since we are completing each other.Tabligh is doing their job in spreading dawah (Prophet’s way) and we also have our approaches in da’wah (cyber-dawah,religious talks,forum,da’wah through music etc).It takes enormous efforts and mujahadah to be in Tabligh jamaah (The sacrifice,the activities;gash,jihad 3 days,40days,3 months,4 months) which some of us may not bear.
Wallahua’laam :)
ChaiWalla
April 17, 2010 at 9:09 PM
salaam,
i have to admit, whoever wrote the poem is indeed very talented. i dont know much about the theological and ideological differences that take place between mainsteam Sunni and the “TJs”. but alhumdulillah. when will we stop hating on our own brothers. yea we all have faults. but we should focus on the possitve ramifications of the work of the TJs. may allah guide us all. ameen
=)
Light
April 17, 2010 at 10:52 PM
Can somone please explain to me why tablighis focus so much on eemaan? i sit with them after maghrib prayers and the only thing they talk about is eeman all day and to be honest with u it gets boring. I dont know what the present scholars say about tablighis so could someone shed some light on this…. also i have my on view of them even though i respect them and listen to whatever they have to say. it seems like they never provide any evidence from the sunnah or Quran whenever they say something concerning the religion.
Muhammed
April 17, 2010 at 10:55 PM
Perfect, publish a poem about tabligh on a Salalfi site. Kick back, dim the lights and watch the Wahabi’s bash it.
:)
naeem
April 18, 2010 at 12:21 AM
Why dim the lights? :-)
Leo
April 18, 2010 at 3:26 AM
Its what they do when you go to the theatre and they start the show ;)
naeem
April 18, 2010 at 4:59 AM
My bad, I thought it was to create a romantic ambiance. You know, with all the brotherly love on display here.
amad
April 18, 2010 at 1:50 AM
as they say, damn if you do, damn if you don’t.
naeem
April 18, 2010 at 4:58 AM
Amad, you FOB, its damned if you do, damned if you don’t. :-P
amad
April 18, 2010 at 5:21 AM
vatewer
my perversion of the phrase was to provide a more active, ongoing state of situation, not past-sense :)
Nahyan
April 18, 2010 at 2:34 PM
lol
Syed J.
April 18, 2010 at 3:32 AM
Wa alaikum as Salaam & Assalam alaikum..
To Bro
Ahmed
April 17, 2010 • 9:15 am
Just a reminder that let us use CAPS when writing ‘Allah’ ‘s name.. Probably it could be a mistake …but reminder benefits all of us..
Jazak Allah Khair.
I am not a scholar to argue about TJ and their work.. The most important thing i want to bring to my attention and others is that ‘these days a lot of of us (organisations) are wasting time and naoozbillah doing gheebah of each other (organisations) and wasting time and efforts in this.
Subhan’Allah (perfect and exalted is Allah). How much time has been wasted in our communities and on the internet arguing with one another in the name of Islam.
And Allah Knows Best.
waleed
April 18, 2010 at 5:33 PM
*Allah, and his Rasool know best
Abd- Allah
April 20, 2010 at 11:16 PM
That statement is incorrect akhi, the Rasool sallalahu alyhi wasallam has passed away and it isn’t correct to say that he also knows best about all the matters now. When he was alive and still receiving revelation that was permissible to say, but now it is not, and we should only say that Allah knows best. And indeed, Allah knows best.
waleed
April 22, 2010 at 9:27 PM
JazakAllah bro, I used to say Allah know best only, but my teacher countered that and said we should say both…but I see your point
Abd- Allah
April 22, 2010 at 10:11 PM
May Allah guide and bless you and your teacher akhi waleed.
UmA
April 18, 2010 at 12:16 PM
Was this poem by Aby Eesa?
Amatullah
April 18, 2010 at 2:30 PM
no, he didn’t write it.
Muhammed
April 18, 2010 at 2:52 PM
I’m a strict follower of Quran and Sunnah but I’ll tell you one thing. These Tablighi brothers have the best akhlaaq I’ve ever seen.
Zuhayr
April 18, 2010 at 6:33 PM
subhaan Allah
Hassan
April 18, 2010 at 6:59 PM
Refer to my comment above, I do not think their slanders of shyookh, or backbiting of commong people is good akhlaaq.
QasYm
April 18, 2010 at 11:36 PM
Hassan, just because you have witnessed this doesn’t mean the entire Jamaat is like that. Many people on this thread as well as people who talk about TJ all the time say “Even though we disagree with their methodology, no one can question their manners and sincerity”.
And btw, alot of people who go with the TJ on Jawla are not necesarily TJ. Most of them don’t even know what/who they are but just want to go out on a “dawah” trip. It could be that you heard something from one of them and mistook it for an actual TJ making it.
I don’t agree with their dawah tactics but I don’t think it’s right to label the whole movement as slanderers because of an incident (or 2) that you witnessed.
Allahu Alam
Faqir
April 18, 2010 at 11:58 PM
DUDE CHILL OUT LOL. You made your point. Im reading this post a few days later but all I see is someone crying about the same thing over and over. You cant make a sweeping generalization about a large group through a few people. Thats what the media is trying to do to Muslims as a whole. use a few people to generalize about all of us. Just because you had a bad experience doesn’t mean others wont benefit. You seem to forget how many Muslims sadly are out there drinking smoking fornicating etc. I personally know dozens of people who have changed their ways through the movement. Forget about the deeper issues that you might have, if this movement can help people out of the darkness, then who are you to try to stand up against it. Alhamdulillah you may not have been plagued with these diseases of those sins, so you are looking at it from a different view. Its a grassroots movement. Quite frankly, if through that movement a person goes from sinning to praying sincerely even ONCE, thats a GIANT step. To pray 5 times a day sadly for a big chunk of muslims is a huge task. Take a step back, if you moved on you moved on, but theres still people out there that need a reminder. Remember, Hidaya is only from Allah. Theres no harm in asking a brother to come pray in the masjid. Calm down, and just make du’a for people, because your repeated comment wont get anyone anywhere. Assalamualaikum. (please do not take offense)
Hassan
April 19, 2010 at 10:52 AM
Mostly good points, and I agree, I would defend them against progressives. But since the post was pro-tablighi, I felt my islamic duty (you may disagree) to let people know.
Now the issue about slandering, well unfortunately it is coming from “leaders/ameers”, so its hard to ignore. Specially if slander is against a scholar. (and grave one)
shirtman
April 18, 2010 at 6:12 PM
Hey, if it works, it works– nothing is perfect, but if they can make a non practicing Muslim practicing, how can you argue, Junaid Jamshed gave a great testimonial on this at aH ouston Masjid one time on how it changed him to become the man he is today.
Salaamaz,
Shirtman.
NurKhan
April 18, 2010 at 6:39 PM
Salam,
This poem has to be one of the most pathetic ever in terms of style. Reminds one of McGonagall , widely considered the world’s worst poet. Consider this gem:
Beautiful Moon, with thy silvery light
Thou seemest most charming to my sight
As I gaze upon thee in the sky so high
A tear of joy does moisten mine eye.
Sounds similar to this awful effort doesn’t it?
In English poetry, every verse doesn’t have to rhyme. It’s not a ‘ghazal’ as in Urdu or Arabic!!
Sayf
April 18, 2010 at 7:18 PM
I thought art was subjective? If you ask me, I don’t see anything great about the mona lisa.
NurKhan
April 18, 2010 at 8:53 PM
Yes, but rubbish like this does not qualify as ‘art’.
Really? What do you consider to be a great painting/artist, and why?
Sayf
April 18, 2010 at 9:51 PM
Well art = anything creative, so I’d like to know how subjective standards disqualify that definition.
I find paintings that visually express kindness, humble blog comments, and akhlaq to be very appealing.
See what I did there? =D}
Yaqeen needed
April 20, 2010 at 2:00 PM
Isn’t Mona Lisa and all paintings meant to be haram? The last time I checked it was. Or have we not gotten some fatwa to make it otherwise in our quest to americanise islam?
If those hinting they are superior and picking out the faults of tabligh here have glossed over this, its even more indicative of a greater malaise.
Wael - IslamicAnswers.com
April 19, 2010 at 12:35 AM
NurKhan, there’s also nothing wrong with rhyme, and if you are snobbishly dismissing the poem just because it rhymes, then you haven’t really read it. I have studied poetry at the university level, I’ve been published and I’ve taught poetry, and I think this was a brilliant poem and a pleasure to read ma-sha-Allah.
Amad
April 19, 2010 at 12:50 AM
jazakAllahkhair Wael for your comment. I am not a published or trained poet, but I have dabbled in it. And I thought it was pretty good too, so thanks for the authoritative stamp of approval :)
NurKhan
April 19, 2010 at 7:59 AM
Wael,
1. Can you please post or send me a link to your published work?
2. Can you please explain what this means:
“The intellect is still looking for its transportation,”
(Or can you guess what language this is ‘literally’ translated from?)
Wael - IslamicAnswers.com
April 19, 2010 at 11:42 PM
NurKhan, why should I prove anything to you? I don’t even know you. Obviously you and I have different literary tastes. You would not appreciate my work and you are not a kind critic in any case. Anyone who would criticize the hard work of another Muslim as “pathetic, rubbish and awful”, is not someone with a kind heart and not someone I would want reviewing my work. But I will give you a brief answer.
1. I was published in literary journals in the late 80’s and early 90’s, when I used to send my work out.
2. I could offer an explanation of the verse which might be right and it might be wrong. It would have to do with the sufi belief that intellect alone is insufficient to reach Allah, one needs Love as they say. I personally am not a sufi and I have only a passing familiarity with their beliefs. Whether my understanding is “correct” or not according to you is irrelevant. It is my understanding, and I am the reader.
NurKhan
April 20, 2010 at 8:05 PM
Comment Deleted
-Editor Note: Your tone and content of this comment was both personal and offensive and goes against MM comments policy. Further infractions could result in permanent moderation
Nihal Khan
April 18, 2010 at 7:28 PM
Tableeghi Jama’at Zindabad.
Yay.
jibery
April 18, 2010 at 11:58 PM
tl;dr
guy post poem
people debate
Nihal Khan
April 19, 2010 at 12:19 AM
Anyone wanna go on a 10 day jamaat with me in May? it’ll be baller inshaAllah!
Wael - IslamicAnswers.com
April 19, 2010 at 12:31 AM
Wow. SubhanAllah, ma-sha-Allah. I have just read the poem and bypassed all the comments that followed in order to share my pure reaction to the poem without any undue influence.
Brother or sister, why remain anonymous? That was a beautiful poem, ma-sha-Allah. How long did it take you to write that?
Speaking as a poet, your poem was mentally stimulating, fun to read, and impressive in its construction. An amazing ode.
Speaking as a believer, it touched my heart and cut right to the center of the issue, which is the pure, soft-hearted worship of Allah.
As far as the Jama’at at-Tableegh, I’ve heard the criticisms before, and I’ve even voiced some of them myself. But I’ve come to realize that there are many ways of walking fee sabeel-illah, many types of work that need to be done. Allah says, “And those who strive in Our cause, We will guide them to our paths.” Paths, plural.
I advise people with family problems and I blog about human rights. That’s my chosen field of work. Someone else might work on Islamic education. The Tableeghis work on da’wah. There is plenty of room for everyone, plenty of needs to be addressed.
And from personal experience, I still remember when I was a teenager and I went with the Tableeghis for one week only. By the end of the week I felt like a different person. I felt so much closer to Allah. I felt my imaan so much stronger in side me, and my heart so much softer. That was only one week.
Wael - IslamicAnswers.com
April 19, 2010 at 12:56 AM
I’ve gone back and read some of the comments. Some very harsh criticism of the TJ’s aqeedah and methodology.
I was Islamically educated quite well as a youth Alhamdulillah, so yes, even when I went with them as a teenager (more than once) I was aware of some problems with their ideas and beliefs. A couple of times they shut me down when I tried to raise certain issues.
BUT… I remember how they would come and practically plead with someone to take them to see the non-practicing Muslims. So I would go with them and take them to some of the large apartment complexes. We would look on the mailboxes and search for Muslim names, then go knock on those doors. We spoke to so many people. I remember a young Turkish man who had never really practiced Islam, but was touched by the TJ’s talk about Allah, and the need to remember our death, and to show gratitude to Allah. I remember talking to many Indonesians, and a group of young Arabs who stopped their drinking and card-playing to listen politely. Many of these people had never heard someone speak like this, not trying to force rituals on them but speaking about Allah from the heart, and about our place in this world in relation to Allah. I think many of them were touched. Some came to the masjid to pray for the first time ever.
Someone said the tableeghis just try to convert Ahl-us-Sunnah to TJ’s. But that’s not what I saw. The TJ’s were visitors and would come and go. The people they reached out to were residents, and if their hearts were touched they would come to the masjid and learn from the regular people of the masjid.
I don’t care what anyone says, no one will ever convince me that what I witnessed and participated in was not fundamentally good. They awoke an awareness of Allah in the hearts of people who had never been given such an awareness.
Yaqeen needed
April 20, 2010 at 1:53 PM
Wael
To put it in another way, lets see those who point out all the faults do some of what you just mentioned that is definitely from the sunnah and praiseworthy (visiting muslims) sacrifice and leave their keyboards and comfy couches to go and visit such muslims. And do it without seeking glamour or being paid for it. These same people who will see NO good in the tabligh will at the same time go to all lenghts to prove that there is good in the kuffar. Then they will quote the hadiths that suit them. I think that’s what the English call hypocrisy
Rizak
April 19, 2010 at 1:00 AM
Asalaamu Alaykum,
I have been on tabligh, am surrounded by good tablighi brothers and love them for the sake of Allah. They do a lot of good and bring people closer to the deen of Islam alhumdulillah.
However, some of the rudest people I have known are also tablighi and some of them are lyers, cheaters, stealers etc. but I try not to attribute this to their group since I know they only intend good in their dawah. They also have many mistakes on a grand scale, mistakes you can directly attribute to their group. That’s besides the point though.
The tablighis that I know, in specific, propagate a lot of bid’ah and just plain outright misquote Qur’an and Hadith. They avoid teaching Aqeedah because they fear it creates problems and warn against anyone who doesn’t choose their option of dawah (which they imply is fardh). BUT my mission is not to point out their mistakes, nor is it to push them further from a more proper Islam. Rather, it’s to bring them closer to what is more proper without bringing myself closer to their mistakes.
That does NOT mean I must sit with them and validate any of their beliefs, to join them for 3 / 10 / 40 / 120 days and soak in their dawah. It does NOT mean we should default to their system because we “dont have time” to create something better. It’s best we approach the situation with hikmah, according to the Quran and Sunnah by the understanding of the Salaf us saalih.
Nihal Khan
April 19, 2010 at 11:21 AM
3 days jamaat….3 day seminar :o.
10 day jamaat…10 day ilm summit :o.
Yaqeen needed
April 19, 2010 at 11:43 PM
Nice way to put it
4 years Bachelor’s degree in Madeenah /Umm ul Qura – 4 months in the path of Allah
7 years masters in sharia/hadith in Madeenah /Umm ul Qura – whole life insha Allah
which of them is not from quran and sunna. Which is?
Kaja Moinudeen
April 22, 2010 at 7:21 AM
Yasir Qadhi
He who acts without knowledge typically ends up causing more harm than good, even if he is sincere.
Extracted from FB
Imran
April 20, 2010 at 11:14 AM
Brother Rizak,
Asalaamu Alaykum,
Wa’alaykum As’Salaam,
I have been on tabligh, am surrounded by good tablighi brothers and love them for the sake of Allah. They do a lot of good and bring people closer to the deen of Islam alhumdulillah.
Alhamdullilah.
However, some of the rudest people I have known are also tablighi and some of them are lyers, cheaters, stealers etc. but I try not to attribute this to their group since I know they only intend good in their dawah. They also have many mistakes on a grand scale, mistakes you can directly attribute to their group. That’s besides the point though.
Same charges can be levelled against Muslims in general. That doesn’t reflect on Islam then, does it?
The tablighis that I know, in specific, propagate a lot of bid’ah and just plain outright misquote Qur’an and Hadith. They avoid teaching Aqeedah because they fear it creates problems and warn against anyone who doesn’t choose their option of dawah (which they imply is fardh). BUT my mission is not to point out their mistakes, nor is it to push them further from a more proper Islam. Rather, it’s to bring them closer to what is more proper without bringing myself closer to their mistakes.
With all due respect, vast majority of Tablighis are flat-out ignorant about the intricacies of the Internet aqeedah and taqleed debates. Most people here might not know this but they have a semi-official 7th point which is tark e lay’ani i.e., forsaking the useless. They would consider such debates to fall under the realm of forsaking the useless. Whereas to you, these theological debates must be taught at a primary level to the awaam, their aim to is to inculcate the zeal of a’maal and the yaqeen in Allah. That is exactly why their books such as Fadail e A’amal (although having some weak narrations) and Hayat us Sahaba deal exclusively with life stories of Sahaba and their sacrifices for the sake of deen. By the way, the tradition that their *Deobandi* elders such as Mawlana Ilyas, Mawlana Zakariya, Mawlana Yusuf, and others follow is part of the larger Ahlus Sunnah tradition even by the Salafi standards set by Yasir Qadhi himself. So why the need to correct their theological orientation? Furthermore, is it even practical when majority of people are non-practicing and do not possess fundamental knowledge of deen to expect them to know the Divisions of Tauheed and esoteric concepts about how to interpret Allah’s attributes? Shouldn’t it suffice for them to know the basics of Tauheed first and perhaps if they are so inclined, learn the advanced or finer aspects? A sincere query.
Hassan
April 20, 2010 at 2:52 PM
Are you suggesting, Sh Yasir Qadhi find nothing wrong to be corrected in their theological orientation? Or he just says they are part of “larger Ahlus Sunnah tradition”? Because these 2 things can be different. So just wanted some clarification.
Yaqeen needed
April 20, 2010 at 10:46 PM
Hassan,
Interesting, When did Yasir Qadi become a yard stick or hujja to determine what is wrong or right? Its seems the same cult followership that the likes of Hassan, whose overt rabid hatred of tabligh has overgrown this particular blog, and others have accused the tabligh of exists here? The same people accusing others of blind followership dont even realise that they are doing the same- whether they call beautiful names that may even amount to self praise tazkiya – anaa salafi
What is required is to go back to the Quran and sunnah and the ways of the four rightly guided khulafa. And for this yaqeen isdirely needed
Thoufeeq
April 21, 2010 at 1:54 AM
Assalaamu’Alaikum brother…
If u wanna go back 2 the quran and Sunnah 2 know about d tablighi status in an open and frank manner without any other intervention other than Qwaalallaah(Allah said so i.e the Quran) , QwaalarRasool(Mohammad(saw)said so), then go to the link given by ”Khan” above and download n read, n spread the mini booklet and then only post ur comments….(this applies 2 all here)
Mr Abdullah above has thanked Khan and so do i for showing us the true stance of islam with regards to the tablighi jamaath… Through the modes of Quran and Sahih hadith…
Yaqeen needed
April 26, 2010 at 9:23 AM
bro thoufiq
barakallahu fik really dont have the time but i can tell u that not allthose who quote quran wa sunna do it. easier said than done. If cnanced will post more later insha Allah
Hassan
April 21, 2010 at 1:25 PM
Yaqeen needed,
Interesting. When did I suggest that Yasir Qadi has become a yard stick or hujja to determine what is wrong or right?
And you when on rant basically, accusing of me things, I do not know what is best islamic response to it. But my question was of just what Shiekh Yasir Qadhi says? I do not think there could have been simpler question, but apparently, you were just waiting to jump on me.
Yaqeen needed
April 26, 2010 at 9:15 AM
Hassan
barakallahu fik for accusing me of ranting
The conclusion I came to is based on understanding of your question. That’s why we were taught comprehension lessons in school. Analytical deduction
Let me help you out- you wanted to know what Yasir Qadi says. Meaning what he says has weight
Are you suggesting, Sh Yasir Qadhi find nothing wrong to be corrected in their theological orientation? This construction implies you are questioning the suggestion he may find nothing wrong with the tabligh.
And hence- the hujja or yardstick poser. Get it
Hassan
April 26, 2010 at 9:48 AM
Coming from computer science background, I have alhamdulillah deep knowledge of logical analysis.
There could have been two ways you would have inquired about this:
1. A question, “Hassan, are you suggesting Yasir Qadi become a yard stick or hujja to determine what is wrong or right?”, and to which my answer would have been simple no.
2. Assumption and then rant method that you took, (refer to your comment).
Moreover
Know the truth and you would know the people. Get it?
abu abdAllah Tariq Ahmed
April 22, 2010 at 6:43 PM
When I asked a person of knowledge about Tablighi Jamat, the explantions I got were not shrill nor unkind, nor were they equivocal — I was told that spending time with the Tablighi Jamat would expose me to much bidah and little actual knowledge. The scholar who spoke to me did not say that everything they do is evil; he just urged me to more beneficial study and acts of ibadat from the sunnah.
That was enough for me. So while I receive many polite invitations to participate in Tabligh activities, I decline just as politely.
Nevertheless, what most often pulls at my heartstrings with respect to Tabligh is that I see no other group of Muslims so throroughly committed to facilitating in-person dawah. Sure, there is encouragement to study Qur’an and Sunnah, no small thing. But an organized dawah machine into which a person can just plug himself or herself? Until Muslims who love and adhere to the Sunnah demonstrate that love by reclaiming preeminence in in-person dawah from the Tabligh, we will always find ourselves in a weak position. WAllaho’Alim.
Bin Muhsin
April 23, 2010 at 1:01 AM
Subhannallah!
I loved the poem, brother or sister who wrote it. May Allah reward those who strive in jamaats. Enough has been said about how much effort they are doing. May Allah give us the tawfeeq to do the same.
On a side note, I find it interesting that we as muslims can find 101 reasons to respect, honour and have love for a non muslim co-worker, friend or classmate. It’s never too hard to co-exist with them, speak to them gently and also disagree with them diplomatically and OVERLOOK all their faults.
However when dealing with our fellow Muslim brothers, we find 101 reasons to speak to them in a vile and criticizing manner. We manage to pick up all their mistakes and faults and completely refute any good qualities that they may possess.
It is absolutely human to have faults and you’ll see it with any Islamic organization. Why waste our time and energy criticizing one dawah group. All we end up really doing, is criticizing “human character”, not “Tablighi character” as is often assumed.
Imran
April 23, 2010 at 10:30 AM
It is actually a sign of our immaturity as an ummah that we can’t rise above such petty differences. Our deen is so beautiful and teaches us such morals that if we were to embody these in our lives, this world would become paradise. On the contrary, we engage in too much negativity and fault-finding whereas we should really be looking inwards all the time and evaluating our own selves. This is why I like Tabligh that it teaches to focus on one’s own faults. This is also the essence of pure and unadulterated Tasawwuf which has been tainted with so much evil innovations. I love my Salafi brothers for their concern for the Tauheed and Sunnah but I think that a lot of times they get carried away in their emotions and forget that respecting the sanctity of another Muslim is paramount in Shariah. By all means, correct mistakes and repel evil but do so in a beautiful and wise manner. Confrontation will get us nowhere.
Yaqeen needed
April 26, 2010 at 9:19 AM
Most balanced response here. We need more of you in the umma. Barakallahu fik
Nihal Khan
April 24, 2010 at 9:15 AM
So nobody wants to go on jamaat with me?
:(
Nihal Khan
April 25, 2010 at 11:46 PM
bummer…
Amad
April 26, 2010 at 1:01 PM
I really think we need to move on.
I will ask a simple question, for which I am not looking for an answer.
Are Muslims, as a whole, better off with the TJ in existence or without?
I think anyone who believes it is the latter has some serious heart-cleansing to do. On that thought, we will close the comments. May Allah bless all the Muslims who are working for His pleasure and guide all of us to the truth in all matters, and forgive all of our sins.
Zahid
June 30, 2012 at 8:06 AM
http://sneintonmuslims.blogspot.in/2011/02/tableeghi-jamaat-tj-exposed.html
Becky Turner
May 7, 2019 at 4:12 AM
Hi there! Nice post! Please tell us when I will see a follow up!