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Interview with a “Taliban-trained” Suicide Bomber
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ironie101
December 15, 2009 at 3:02 AM
Subhanallah! That was truly chilling. It makes me feel like its not surprising that Allah swt has not yet granted victory to the muslims.
However I do feel sorry for the guy who has been brainwashed into truly believing all that he talked about. He believes it so fervently he’s actually willing to sacrifice everything for his belief. I don’t blame these guys. I blame the ‘ameer’ who trained him, the nameless ‘scholar’ he supposedly got his fatwa from. If these leaders are so persuasive and so effective in their skewed message, imagine if they used these powers of persuasion for the sake of good, for bringing muslims back to islam, for giving dawah, to better their communities! Imagine the kind of societies we would have..
Even a person on the street with minimal knowledge of deen can see the difference between these ‘mujahideen’ and the real mujahideen of yore.
Imagine the quality of eman that must have penetrated into the heart of someone like Salahuddin al-Ayyubi(rha). When Walter Scott, the Scottish historical novelist, writes of Salahudeen, he says – “modern [19th Century] liberal European gentlemen, beside whom medieval Westerners would always have made a poor showing.” This was a man who fought the West, stood against everything the Christians believed in, fought wars and won against them, and yet western academics (who are normally known for a marked Islamophobia) talk about him in such exalted terms! He actually granted amnesty to the entire Catholic population and even allowed the army conditional passage.Compare it with the Christian carnage a few decades ago when they captured Jerusalem and left the streets running with knee-deep muslim blood. If that is not jihad, if that is not the best dawah, I don’t know what is!
We need to touch the hearts of people, we need to build bridges, be the most exemplary in character – that is what will grant victory to the muslims; not senseless propaganda and mindless violence!
Abs
December 15, 2009 at 3:33 AM
While it was very frightening indeed, I wondered why he’s named a Suicide Bomber. I mean, shouldn’t he blow himself up before getting that title?
Amad
December 15, 2009 at 4:38 AM
I think it’s meant to be “trained suicide bomber”, i.e. trained for that purpose.
Amatullah
December 15, 2009 at 4:26 AM
Psychologically troubled individual!
ummfatima
December 15, 2009 at 4:57 AM
Assalamualykum,
It`s very chilling ,very disturbing video.I really wish and pray that we all open up the quraan and read word by word , ponder upon it`s meaning .Let`s make a vigerous effort so that Allah guide us all to the straight path.
This guy is not even thinking twice to kill young children or his own family members.He is not even ready to listen to anyone..very very depressing ..May Allah guide him to the true deen.
salaam.
Ash
December 15, 2009 at 5:49 AM
May Allah protect our Deen from corruption ! May he guide us all..
btw, the video links to an ahmadia channel where is slanders Mainstream islam (this video was supposed to be slander mainstream islam!!) i think the video should be re-uploaded to a proper channel and re-embed
Yus from the Nati
December 15, 2009 at 6:09 AM
People are crazy.
Umm Reem
December 15, 2009 at 6:44 AM
A’oodhobillah!
This video reminds me of the era of Uthman and Ali (radiAllahuma)…the disastrous time of Khawarij continues…
Sh. Waleed mentioned in his “History of Sects in Islam” that khawarij always fight against Muslims and they spare non-Muslims, and this is exactly what the interviewer mentioned that in the past at least those Afghans were fighting the Russians but you guys are killing Muslims, that suicide-bomber gave that typical answer that anyone who is quite and is not fighting in Waziristan is actually supporting the action of the govt. and that makes his blood allowed to be spilled…a’oodhobillah…
same excuse that was givnen by the khawarijeen in our history…
Also, the age group signifies that the fitnah-causers always target the younger generation with their corrupted idealogy… just like it was done during the fitnah of Uthman (ra)!
I remember reading Jalal Abualrub’s book “Holy Wars, Crusades Jihad” a few years back and I couldn’t understand why he had to dedicate first few chapters on the ideology and actions of Khawarji, and he explained to me that it was important for readers to know who they were in order to understand the correct concept of Jihad…Now I couldn’t agree with him more…
May Allah azzawajal purify our Ummah, and guide all of us to siraat ul mustaqeem.
Nahyan
December 16, 2009 at 7:24 AM
Excellent points sister.
UmmKhawla
December 15, 2009 at 7:15 AM
Asalamulaiakum wa rahmatuallah
Allah (SWT) says in the Qur’an: “Oh you who believe! If a faasiq (sinner, liar or evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done.” (EMQ al-hujurat, 49:6)
InshAllah jthose who believed this straight away will take on this advice from Allah az wajjal !
Like some on mentioned in the comments that this channel hates mainstream Islam.
Are you all really sure about your claims ? lest you become regreful on YAwmul Qiyamah when this is used against you ! ITAQALLAH!
Ash
December 15, 2009 at 7:25 AM
I was the one who said that, and i said it after analyzing the channel and the uploader’s comment.
and yes, the true uploader (the youtube user who uploaded the video, NOT the person who posted the topic here) was slandering main stream islam to present Qadianism as the true islam.
I dont wanna divert the topic and Iam not in here for a debate.
Amad
December 15, 2009 at 8:47 AM
Ash, thanks for pointing that out, and your point is well-noted. I have found another youtube source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVgHnUk0J0k
As we all know, just because someone posts a video doesn’t mean they produced it. And in this case, the video isn’t produced by the guy who posted it. It is done by GEO. Regardless, like you, I prefer using the another person’s channel.
We are having some problems with editing posts, that is why I have been unable to change the reference.
Note: the video is also on Geo’s official channel, however without the english subtext (which is accurate as I went through the video before posting it). So, this is AUTHENTIC. Of course conspiracy theorists will continue to be conspiracy theorists.
Ash
December 15, 2009 at 9:08 AM
Alhamdulillah, Glad it came to your attention, I really hope you get to edit the post sooner or later and fix the reference (it aint that hard actually, if you do have access to the db atleast)
Jazkalah Khair.
Amatullah
December 15, 2009 at 9:44 AM
Video has been updated/changed.
Abd- Allah
December 15, 2009 at 7:41 AM
This post should have been titled: Interview with a “dog from Hell”, because that is what the khawarij are, the “dogs of the people of Hell.”
UmmKhawla
December 15, 2009 at 7:58 AM
im not asking for a debate , alot of ppl read this site isnt it better not to spread information which hasnt been verified ? dnt your readers deserve that ?
Abd- Allah
December 15, 2009 at 8:05 AM
Of coarse the information should be verified. However, by being posted here, we assume that the one who posted it (brother Amad) has already verified the information before posting it here. Right Amad?
Amad
December 15, 2009 at 8:50 AM
Just google the video, and you will get a million references pointing back to the original producer, GEO.
Obviously, the person who is asking the questions could have done this. Just another way to change the topic and divert attention.
UmmKhawla, please read the featured article on MM… it touches upon conspiracies and even the ayah you quoted.
Holly Garza
December 15, 2009 at 8:09 AM
Asalaamu alaikum Wa Ramayulahi Wa Barakatu
Not everything said by those who say Islam is evil, is true; correct. If I wasn’t Muslim, I would believe Islam was a terrible ailment as well! It’s not!
The more we as Muslims follow the Deen and speak out against this injustice to our Religion, to ourselves; to Our way of life the less these brain washed terrorists can call themselves Muslims!
They are destroying what The Last and final Messenger of Allah said with these actions, what he taught! What he was sent to teach us about Allah’s love and mercy. There is so much in the Qu’ran and hadith to teach us the straight path.
” what is the best type of Jihad [struggle].’ He S.A.W.S.answered: ‘Speaking truth before a tyrannical ruler.’ ” Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:195
More examples of what He The Messenger Muhhamad SAWS taught:
“Oh my servants I have made oppression unlawful for me and unlawful for you, so do not commit oppression against one another” Nawai Hadith
“Anyone who believes in God and the Last Day (of Judgment) should not harm his neighbor. Anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should entertain his guest generously. And anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should say what is good or keep quiet.” Sahih Al-Bukhari
Isn’t the poor Muslims being killed over seas oppressed by clinging to their homes in fear? Scared to go to the Masajid even? Muslims are killing Muslim in the name of God!!! This is wrong and NOT what Allah sent us the Messengers to teach.
I mean I don’t get it!? What type of Blasphemy is it to think that Almighty God, that Allah needs our “help” anyhow?!
Who thinks that they by blowing up some “infidels” can assist the One and Only creator of the Heavens of Earth! He whom has destroyed and punished plenty of astray people! How dare anyone teach that Allah needs our help?! Woe to them. I’m sure 100 % that this is wrong. I mean, If Something dies; dare we say let me help Allah and his cause and bring it to life?!?! No, only Allah can bring life and Death Only He can Forgive and Only He can punish. How dare some think it is okay to Murder?!
I’m sure there is something in Allah’s guidance that is clear on this I just can’t remember off the top of my head……let me look.
ah Yes Nawawi hadith
“O my servants even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of jinns becomes as pious as the most pious heart of any one amongst you, it will NOT add anything to my power or Kingdom.”
“O my servants even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of jinns becomes as wicked as the most wicked heart of anyone against you it will NOT decrease anything from My Power or Kingdom”
Here we see that no matter what people say about our way of living , Our Creator, Allah nothing can stop him. However, we also see we can Not aid Allah by being evil or erroneous. May Allah guide us all to the straight path and May He keep our Brothers and sisters overseas safe from those who claim to be Muslim as well.
Abu Rumaisa
December 15, 2009 at 8:59 AM
Jazak’Allah for the good post.
Holly Garza
December 15, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Thanks
Abu Rumaisa
December 15, 2009 at 8:54 AM
Individuals like him are killing both Muslims & non-muslims, they are killing whomever they can. Truly, a sign of desperation by these individuals.
While the Pakistani Taliban have such insane individuals amongst them, they also have those who don’t violate these rules. Pakistani Taliban is not as monolithic group, it’s comprised of various groups some good & some bad.
Pakistan Taliban airs video denial
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/11/20091116145058336650.html
Taliban denies Peshawar blast role
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/10/2009102995252334582.html
Are we just going to believe that news that paints them as evil & ignore that shows them as innocent?
I think in your title, you should have mentioned Pakistani Taliban as they are not the same group as the Afghan one. They goals are different or so are the tactics.
While individuals like are clearly extremist, they are not the only ones who are extremists. Muslim countries are being ruled by other than what Allah has revealed & one who does so is committing major kufr. While individuals don’t have the right to make takfeer, sadly our ulema are silent about it too. Our countries are being attacked & those who resist occupations are being labelled as terrorists. Moderation is needed, they can’t go about killing innocents at whim & neither can they just sit & watch while their countries are occupied.
I see terrorism as a direct result of occupations & incompetence of Muslim leaders & armies. When Muslims countries are attacked, Muslim leaders & armies instead of helping Muslims, are aiding the occupiers. How is that not extremism? If Muslim leaders & armies stood up to fight these occupations, then random Muslims would not need to pick up arms to fight these occupiers. Till Muslim armies choose to sit at the sidelines while Muslims are attacked, individuals & groups will rise to fight these occupiers & even Muslims armies as they are seen as traitors. To believe otherwise, is not living in reality.
Amad
December 15, 2009 at 11:45 AM
I agree that the “Taliban” are not monolithic. I also understand that the Afghan and Pakistan Taliban are not the same, or that they agree on everything.
By the way, the leader of TTP claimed responsibility to what I would consider one of the most disgusting attacks in Pakistan, at the Rawalpindi masjid.
Tehrik-e-Taliban owns Rawalpindi mosque attack
Dan
December 15, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Amad, why do you continue to insist that the Afghan Taliban is not the same as their Pakistani counterpart?
Here’s what they have in common: both hate Shi’as (the Afghan Taliban did butcher tens of thousands of Shi’as under their rule, a fact that many on this site refuse to acknowledge), they both harbor support for extremists, both want to impose their austere version of Islam that naive Western Muslims aspire because they claim to uphold the message of the Almighty, both think it is their right to impose their rule upon others, they want to spread their fanaticism to neighboring countries, and both have no shame in oppressing women.
Now tell me, why do you continue to defend the Afghan Taliban when it was them that allowed sanctuary for the ones who continue to blow up targets around the world?
This is my beef with people who claim the Pak Taliban and the Afghan Taliban are different, when they are not. Why don’t you go ask non-Pashtuns (especially the Hazaras of Bamiyan) if they want the Taliban back? I feel that ‘conservative’ Muslims tend to look the other way when their own commit atrocities on the scale of Israel’s assault on Gaza and say nothing as long as their ‘Shariah’ is established.
PakistaniMD
December 15, 2009 at 6:05 PM
I most agree with Dan’s Assertions. He is right in that the Taliban killed thousands of Shias. The very fact that most on this site and many others continue to deny it is troubling (it does not matter that a person believes a shia is not Muslim… even if they are not, does that still justify their deaths?). Dan is also right in that the OVERALL goals of Afghan and Pak. Taliban are the same: a supposedly theocratic state (modeled seemingly after Saudi Arabia’s, w/o the lattersรขโฌโข protections for Women) and complete slaughter of anyone who impose them (Harzas, Non-Phustans, Tajiks, Shias).
Amad
December 16, 2009 at 12:17 AM
Thanks for cheer-leading, but your argument is non sequitur.
No one denied or affirmed the killing of shias, just like no one denied or affirmed the killing of sunnis by Northern Alliance. If we ever discuss that topic, feel free to chime in.
I have already answered the other assertions.
Shibli Zaman
December 16, 2009 at 7:25 AM
Some people have been reading the Kite Runner too much. Outside of Kabul, the Hazaras in places like Ghazni and Wardark actually have lived far, far better under the Taliban than they would under the Northern Alliance. This is a fact. Why were they not massacred like they were in places like Mazar and Yakawlang? That’s because the “massacres” there were the result of fighting. The Hazaas did the same thing to the Pashtuns when they overran them with the US of A’s help:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2002/03/05/anti-pashtun-violence-northern-afghanistan
That’s usually what happens in battle. One side loses and often gets killed in the process. I think that’s been going on for 1,000,000 years. Anyone from Afghanistan (outside of Kabul) who is objective knows that in rural Afghanistan there is far less ethnic strife than there is in the urban centers. This is because the urban centers are where politicians reside and they are the areas that hit the news.
Also, anyone who refers to “Harzas, Non-Phustans” (sic) need not comment on the affairs of Afghanistan.
Dan
December 16, 2009 at 2:07 PM
“Some people have been reading the Kite Runner too much. Outside of Kabul, the Hazaras in places like Ghazni and Wardark actually have lived far, far better under the Taliban than they would under the Northern Alliance. This is a fact. Why were they not massacred like they were in places like Mazar and Yakawlang? Thatรขโฌโขs because the รขโฌลmassacresรขโฌย there were the result of fighting. The Hazaas did the same thing to the Pashtuns when they overran them with the US of Aรขโฌโขs help:”
HAHA not true. I found Kite Runner to be boring, to be honest. You don’t provide any proof of Hazaras living better under the Taliban. You’re a liar, plain and simple. Plenty of Hazaras fled the Taliban in dilapidated ships to Australia because of your precious Taliban. Why don’t you point out that Mullah Manon Niazi stated that it was acceptable to kill Hazaras because they are kuffar, after they took over Mazar-i-Sharif? He also said,“Wherever you go we will catch you,” he said. “If you go up, we will pull you down by your feet; if you hide below we will pull you up by your hair.” What about Maulawi Mohammed Hanif’s insistence that the policy of the Taliban is to wipe them out? Pashtun subjugation of Hazaras is nothing new, but dates back to the 1890s when a Sunni Pashtun by the name of Abdur Rahman Khan invaded and annexed Hazarajat and forcibly tried to convert Hazaras to Sunnism. Those who fled ended up in either Mashad or Quetta. Hazaras lashed out at Pashtuns due to being subjugated for over a century by your beloved Pashtuns, it’s bound to happen. Not justifying it, but it is understandable given the amount of anger they have. Not only that, Hazaras are perhaps the most progressive of all ethnic groups in Afghanistan. They make a concerted effort to promote education to rise up from their status.
If you were to tell a Hazara that life for them was better under the Taliban, they would not hesitate to smack you. That’s like saying other than Auschwitz, Jews lived very well under Nazi Germany. Give me a break you Taliban apologist. There’s a reason why Iran was fed up with the Taliban, especially after they murdered Iranian diplomats for no reason.
Anon-1
December 17, 2009 at 12:33 PM
Wow. Dan’s really mad LOL!
Shibli Zaman
December 17, 2009 at 12:35 PM
If you talk like that to people whose opinions you don’t agree with then you must not have too many friends. At any right, my condolences. Now without going into a Google induced tirade as you have done, I want to ask you one simple question.
– Wardak is 60% Pashtun and nearly 25% Hazara.
– Wardak had one of the highest election turnouts in the entirety of Afghanistan. Almost half the voters were women.
– 3 out of 5 elected representatives to the Wolesi Jirga, thats the majority, are HAZARA.
In your simpleton contrived scenario of a nationwide Pashtun policy of Hazara genocide how is it possible that a district like Wardak with a sizable Pashtun majority elected mostly HAZARAS to represent them?
I took 3 paragraphs. Please contain yourself, behave like an adult, and give a short and direct answer.
Thank you.
amad
December 16, 2009 at 12:07 AM
Because they are. Common ethnic background: mostly baseless now; just view the video where many punjabis are allegedly now part of the Pak taliban.
Even if one were to assume that they have common background, their goals are very different. Even if one were to assume two groups have similar background and similar goals, their strategies in achieving that goal may be very different. Even the islamophobe newspaper, Washington Times highlights the difference between the two Talibans.
Your entire premise and many of your comments keep spinning around the shia factor. They both hate shias, so they must be same, and must be bad.
What is entirely amazing is that these terrorists are not differentiating between shias and sunnis… in fact, they are killing more sunnis in these masjid (sunni) and market (mostly sunni probably) attacks than shias. By pulling out tangents, it doesn’t help your cause nor does it help those who are against these terrorists, shia-hatred or no shia-hatred. None of the Pakistanis I talked to support them because they are sunni or don’t support them because they don’t like shias.
We are not going down this sectarian argument anymore, and further comments on that tangent have a good chance of being moderated. The last thing we want is to inject sectarian battles in the battle of hearts and minds against extremists of all molds.
This marks the end of our conversation, because not only are you tunnel-visioned, you are disingenuous. Where did I defend the Afghan Taliban? Of course, you won’t find that because it isn’t there. It is only a figment of your imagination, which is running on a single track.
Dan
December 16, 2009 at 1:36 AM
Amad, go look at what is going on in Parachinar. These fanatics were killing Shi’a truck drivers through disgusting methods. I bet you were unaware of the fact that the Taliban were kidnapping Shi’as and not only beheading them, but dismembering their limbs as well. Not only that, they also continue to block major roads to prevent supplies from coming in. This sounds no different from what the Israelis did, yet it doesn’t elicit outrage from the Pakistani public or from the Muslim world in general. You might want to read this article from the New York Times to give you an idea on the severity of the situation over there, in addition to the Iranian government warning Pakistan on allowing its own Gaza massacre to occur unabated. Facts are facts Amad, minorities continue to suffer in Pakistan. And again, you didn’t point out that Christians are also solely targeted by these groups, and yet the Pakistani public does not bother to express horror over this. I was also surprised that you have not taken the time to make a post documenting the treatment of non-Muslims in Pakistan or other countries, yet you are quick to point out how Muslims in China or Myanmar are suffering.
I’m not Shi’a FYI, but Shi’as have historically suffered under Sunni extremist groups in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. One only needs to look at how the life of a Shi’a was during the 90’s when Sipah-e-Sahaba fanatics were ruthlessly targeting anyone that was Shi’a. There’s a reason why Shi’as in Pakistan or Afghanistan do not want to live under Sunni rule, and history is a major factor in this. Pakistani Shi’as prefer to live under a secular government than an Islamic government run by Sunnis who will no doubt oppress them (as was the case under Zia).
As for the Washington Times, I’m sorry but it is difficult for me to take a publication that is owned by a Korean evangelical nutjob seriously. I’m not going to pick and choose that suits my slant by citing these hostile publications, and I’m surprised that you would.
Abu Rumaisa
December 16, 2009 at 8:53 AM
Good repsonse Amad, far better than the one I wrote.
(which didn’t get posted :P )
Zeeshan
December 18, 2009 at 7:55 AM
The video indeed is chilling. There is no doubt that people like these are definitely from the Khawarij. Yes, they are not Blackwater mercenaries, they are fellow Pakistanis and on the face of it, they are apparently Muslims too. But they have resorted to the ways of Khawarij killing innocent men, women and children.
However, the role of Americans in creating this mess cannot be neglected. If this man is not a Blackwater mercenary, this does not mean that such mercenaries have no role to play. Americans, whenever they interfere in a foreign country, never come to the front themselves. They heavily fund men, train men, provide them with logistics and literature, but never go and blow themselves up. I am not saying this out of emotional rhetoric, or because I find it satisfactory for my conscience to lay the blame on evil non Muslims. Rather I say this because a long history of American activities in so many countries has shown consistently this trend.
When the Americans interfered in Nicaragua, they didnt come to the front themselves. They trained the Contra rebels and did everything to counter the nationalist and patriotic Sandinistas government because they would not let the Americans take over Nicaragua’s canal. A simple google on this topic can reveal loads of cruel American activities. During all of these activities, the CIA mercenaries never came on the front, but rather trained the Contra rebels, just like they train the Taliban rebels now.
CIA mercenaries did the same in almost all of Latin American countries. All of these operations were tied with American interests in mineral resources, canals, or weapons industry of that country. In all these countries, the Americans created the rebels, installed a puppet government, and then asked the puppet government to wage a war against the guerrillas, thus creating a civil war. El Selvador, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Columbia, Chile, Cambodia, and now Afghanistan and Pakistan, they all have the same story. You read about these countries’ story for a few months, and everything in the present time in Pakistan seems to fit into place. It is all so predictable.
I reassert that I do not blame the Americans to satisfy my Muslim self by blaming others. I do this based on a long history of American interventions. When I read every other day the news that some American diplomats breached a security checkpoint in Islamabad and tried to run away, you cannot blame me for suspecting their hand behind the destabilization of my country. Just last month, 4 Americans dressed in Shalwar Qameez and turban and speaking Pushto were caught by capital city police. These men had unlicensed weapons which are banned in Pakistan. Later on, the pro-American interior ministry intervened and pressurised the police to release them.
Just two days after the Rawalpindi blast, 4 Blackwater security guards were caught trying to enter Rawalpindi Cantonment. They are still in detention. Would we still deem American hand in this as a conspiracy theory had a blast at Pindi Cantt occured a day after that too? Last month, a PIA flight PK786 was seen carrying 200+ American passengers speaking Pushto. These men had boarded from Heathrow airport and before their arrival in Islamabad, Interior Ministry’s pressure forced Civil Aviation Authority on ISB airport to pass these men without immigration stamp or any record.
These are just a few reports. Ever since this influx of Blackwater, Dyn Corp, and Inter Risk mercenaries has started, my country has seen the likes of savagery it had never seen before. Far sighted men had been predicting such a situation ever since first reports of BW agents surfaced, and it happened exactly the way.
The need of the hour is, to wage a war against these Taliban, kill them as Khawarij, and at the same time deport all American private security companies and their employs no matter how much the US govt pressurizes us. Doing anyone one of these activities and leaving the other will bring us back to square one, and this slaughter will keep going on.
About the Afghan Taliban, I would just say this. Lets not forget that women like Yvonne Ridley embraced Islam after being released from their captivity voluntarily. That speaks a lot amidst the stereotypes
Links:
1) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/11/blackwater-in-cia-pakistan-base
2) http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/south-asia/200-urdu-speaking-blackwater-officials-cleared-at-islamabad-airport-sans-security-checks_100269911.html
3) http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/04-Nov-2009/202-Blackwater-personnel-arrive
4) http://pakistankakhudahafiz.wordpress.com/2009/10/28/nabbed-with-illegal-arms-again/
Dan
December 18, 2009 at 2:16 PM
Who cares about Yvonne Ridley? She has proven to be an apologist for extremists, and is inconsistent with her views. The only reason some Muslims love her is because she’s held up as a ‘trophy convert’. She used to be a hack for a right-wing tabloid, and after her conversion she became an apologist for terrorists who take children hostage in schools (she praised Shamil Basayev as a shahid!) and bomb hotels (she stated that she would rather call Zarqawi her ‘brother’ over the Jordanian royal family). She claims to speak out against oppression, yet gleefully endorses oppression when so-called Islamic movements do so. Her soft spot for extremists in the UK (namely al-Muhajiroun) makes me skeptical of her, sorry.
Abu Ikrimah
December 17, 2009 at 7:13 AM
May Alah bless and reward u 4 this post its the best i have read in a long while in muslimmaters site
Jamal
December 15, 2009 at 10:36 AM
Unfortunately this represents an extreme end product of the type of thinking that has infected Muslim discourse over the past 20 years or so. I remember arguing with people that so called “suicide attacks” against Israeli civilians is murder and against Islam. They told me “Akhi” we are opressed and this is a justifialbe option. I stated that this is Murder!!! They thought otherwise.
I said that one day they will kill Israelis, then eventually other Muslims who don’t look right, have “deviant” beliefs etc. The chickens have come home to roost.
hUddi
December 15, 2009 at 11:29 AM
shows you the importance of gaining/spreading authentic knowledge of this perfect way of life vs taqleed.
Joyhamza
December 15, 2009 at 1:32 PM
Those who understand Urdu I guess have understood how horrific is the state of this man. Though he tries to talk in a very assured tone you can understand there is a big turmoil going through his mind. When he stubbornly kept repeating that the kids are even mujrim, it was clear he was just being desperate. It gives you a good example how dangerous a blind Taqleed is. The zealous salafis (not the manhaj) have raped the phrase “blind taqleed” otherwise it really is a dangerous trap to fall in.
Abuzaid1
December 15, 2009 at 2:23 PM
There is a war against Islam people. We are bombarded with propaganda by the western media whose purpose is to make you hate and slander those who are trying to DEFEND Islam and Muslims. Please stop believing every article that comes from the AP or whatever other western or puppet govt media source. Give the muslims the benefit of the doubt unless you can personally VERIFY they were wrong. Even then u should cover their mistakes and not publicize them.
And for all these supposed “Shayukh” like Qadhi……if the mujahideen are so misguided then why dont you go assist and teach them instead of just throwing them under the bus. I think you are just looking for reasons to demonize them so you will be excused from your scholarly duties.
Dan
December 15, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt, eh?
Joyhamza
December 15, 2009 at 4:21 PM
you are so eager to give EVERY muslim a benefit of doubt and then forget give it to the shuyukh. Have u personally verified with the shuyukh?
Amad
December 16, 2009 at 12:20 AM
Thank Abuzaid for typifying what I discussed in the other article about conspiracy theorists.
No one is throwing the “mujahideen” (I hate giving them this holy label) under the bus. They are doing a good job of it by their own actions.
atheistdebater
December 16, 2009 at 1:28 AM
I have to be careful what I say here, because our honorable moderator, Amad, who seems like a nice guy, has warned me that I am not allowed to try to convert anyone to atheism. Don’t worry, Amad, I will try to keep my comments on topic, and avoid preaching.
Having said that, the person being interviewed is obviously a brainwashed nut. He cannot even give any better support for his horrid inhumanity than that his commander ordered him to do so. He cannot even cite to religious authority for his intended actions, just saying some Arab scholar wrote it somewhere. What an idiot. I am glad that moron is in prison, and not out cavalierly killing innocents. Too bad there are plenty of other brain-donors on the loose.
It heartens me to hear devout Muslims criticize this terrorist. Your religion has been slightly redeemed in my eyes. It is still, however, a religion.
Ash
December 16, 2009 at 1:45 AM
muslims have always been criticizing acts of terror.. but that is not something which the media is interested on, so you prolly wont see them much in the western media.. but nowadays they are trying hard to get the media notice them though.
Abd- Allah
December 16, 2009 at 6:52 AM
I have a feeling that atheistdebater will one day accept islam, inshAllah!
Holly Garza
December 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM
InhsaAllah
Man
December 16, 2009 at 8:01 AM
It isn’t a religion. It is THE religion.
If you study different faiths and worldviews – including atheism, you’ll see Islam presents the most cogent case. I say this from experience.
peace
Holly Garza
December 16, 2009 at 9:30 AM
Hi Atheist debater =) Nice to see you amongst our midst again.
Say, when are you going to stop fighting the urge to become Muslim?
Just give in to it, I did =) I feel tons better!
I hope and pray you will, not for any ulterior motive just because Islam is the absolute BEST gift we can give ourselves! hands down. Okay going off topic sorry…
mystrugglewithin
December 16, 2009 at 12:24 PM
He is a nice guy and moderating this forum demands such things. It isn’t easy and he cannot let every John Doe bashing around on this forum.
Amad
December 16, 2009 at 12:37 PM
thanks mystrugglewithin
i guess i missed the compliment from my atheist friend, but rest assured, I am not worried about him converting anyone… subhanAllah, people have spend millions upon millions to send missionaries to Muslim lands and they come back with a handful of converts who were bribed into it for food and money. On the other hand, you have people turning Muslim everyday under the most difficult circumstances (islamophobia) and with little or no “missionary work”.
the point is, mr. atheist, that Muslims are quite sick of being bombarded all over the place. So, we look to have our own little corner where we can discuss Muslim things without being bothered about topics that really 99.999% muslims don’t care about, starting with La illaha… because we have ill-Allah sorted out for us.
Me
December 16, 2009 at 4:02 AM
Why dont you post the video in which the leaders say that they do not target civilians and that they do matter to them? Or is a fasiq TV station more trustworthy to you than Muslims? Or would it go against your policies of defaming those who have anything to do with the “J Word”? Inshallah there will come a time when you will stand before Allah on the Day of Judgement, and every single Mujahid who you have accused of bing Khawarij, takfeeri and everything else will line up. Those from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Chechnya, etc etc etc, and each and every one will take their right from you for your bacbiting and spreading lies., I ask Allah that none of them forgive you. Ameen
Amad
December 16, 2009 at 6:57 AM
Why don’t I post a video of hollow words?
Actions speak louder than words. Look at the destruction that the terrorists have caused in Pakistan and how many innocent lives have they taken? Innocent collateral? If not, who are these people? Now please don’t tell me that the suicide attackers at the Masjid in Pindi and the market in Lahore were mercenaries?
“Fasiq TV”: I have already dealt with this obsession with conspiracies in the other post. I live in the real world, not the make-believe world of j-internet.
Btw, we are only talking about the terrorists in Pakistan in this video, so your extension of this video to other war-zones is only YOUR assumption, not my words.
Holly Garza
December 16, 2009 at 9:27 AM
@ ME Actually Allah does NOT listen to prayers of ill wishes remember. We can only ask for something if it benefits us, the Ummah, or if it is beneficial.
Anon-1
December 16, 2009 at 7:12 AM
Dude, this guy is INDIAN. Did anyone bother to pay attention to the guy’s accent in Urdu? He’s not Pakistani and certainly not a Pashtun. He says “kud-kush” instead of “khud-kush” (suicide). He says “JULAM” instead of “Zulm” (oppression)! No Pakistani talks like this unless they come from a family that migrated from Indian very recently.
On what grounds is this guy with his face blackened out called a “Taliban-trained” suicide bomber? This is completely unverifiable and, at face value, its clearly not authentic. Any Pakistani journalist with too much ambition can grab anyone, give him a script and a few rupees, turn out the lights and make him sing the star spangled banner and claim its Obama.
I’m not saying that there are not stupid people who do stupid stuff in the name of Islam in Pakistan. Lord knows, there are plenty. My concern is that you’re using this very quesitonable video to dismiss the very legitimate suspicions against Blackwater’s involvement in the recent string of suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism in Pakistan. I think it is unwise and baseless.
Allah knows best.
Amad
December 16, 2009 at 7:35 AM
That’s quite funny Anon-1… I mean if they really had to fake it, couldn’t they just find an uneducated Pakistani and train him to say these things? Why look for a poor Indian??!
I am from Lahore, and the uneducated sound very much like this. I just came from Pakistan, and the accent didn’t give anything away. I am sorry but journalists aren’t that stupid either. Video or not, do you really believe such guys don’t exist?
By the way, what evidence is there for Blackwater’s direct involvement in the suicide bombings? BW is involved in covert operations with CIA against the militants… that is the story, not that they are now involved in creating terrorism. There is no evidence for this.
Finally, I am not saying that this one guy is proof for everything… he is just one part of the puzzle, and just a horrible indication of our problem. I am way past blaming all our problems on conspiracies.. so really, I don’t have the stomach to keep arguing that the khawarij exist today, and they are very much part of the equation. I have mentioned this issue in my other post, and in the end, one believes what is most believable to him or her. To each his own.
Anon1
December 16, 2009 at 8:02 AM
Amad, that’s because many of these “Taliban terrorists” end up being neither Pakistani, nor Afghan, but Indian and Bangladeshi Tablighi drop-outs who went off the deep end.
Let’s say for the sake of argument that people in Lahore say “Julam” for “Zulm” and can’t pronounce a “kh” (Seriously. I have been to Lahore countless times and never heard anyone speaking like a Bollywood extra), how can you authenticate that this guy is not, to put it colloquially, “full of it”? You can’t. This isn’t a piece of the puzzle. Its a spectator sport. Its typical Pakistani media sensationalism with completely unverifiable content. I find it amusing that you say Pakistani journalists “aren’t that stupid either”. We’re not talking about Anderson Cooper here.
I readily acknowledge, as I already mentioned previously, that the Khawarij do exist in Pakistan and throughout the Muslim world. I make it a point to condemn them and speak out against them whenever I can. Its important that we do. However, this guy’s statements are just too insipid to be authentic or to be any kind of evidence to dismiss a foreign hand in Pakistan’s recent string of terrorism. For lack of time (and no lack of netiquette), I can’t write a blog within a blog and list all the evidences that point to Zardari’s laughable rise to power, Obama’s emphasis on “Af-Pak” and Blackwater’s sudden appearance there are directly related to the recent spat of terrorist bombings that have occurred simultaneous to the aforementioned events.
This issue is far more complex than your making it and I feel that the conclusions you derive from this very suspect video are overly simplistic.
Ultimately, Allah knows best. Thanks for engaging me with your follow-ups. was-salam
Abu Rumaisa
December 16, 2009 at 9:11 AM
Amad,
I agree with u here. The problem is Muslims are being attacked by non-muslims from all sides and then we are also being attacked by Muslims. I think it’s just too much of a sad act for many to accept, these mujahideen were the only once defending them but now they r no different than the non-muslims now, hence the denial.
Hassan
December 16, 2009 at 2:29 PM
I never heard any Pakistani ever say julm, no matter how un-educated they are, its not their accent, they pronounce many thing wrong, and have accent for sure, but honestly, never heard julm, or kud kash, do not want to argue about rest of arguments.
Anon-1
December 16, 2009 at 2:51 PM
If you saw the interrogation video of the infamous Mumbai terrorists, they were also using words like “julam” (zulm), “jarurat” (zarurat), etc.
Seriously, step outside of the debate for a moment. Even the most uneducated Pakistanis know the letter “zay” and “kha”. No Pakistani would say “julam” for “zulm”, or “kud-kushi” for “khud-kushi”. I wanted to give Amad the benefit of the doubt, so I even asked a co-worker who is straight outta Lahore whether anyone in Punjab or anywhere else in Pakistan talks like this. I didn’t even tell him why I was asking and he immediately said it was distinctly Indian and that it was patently absurd to even suggest that Pakistanis talk like that.
Now, we have to ask why these alleged Pakistani terrorists all speak with distinctly Indian accents. Conspiracy theories are, indeed, poisonous, but lets not go to the other extreme where we stick our heads in the sand either.
abu zayd
December 16, 2009 at 7:50 AM
“This isnรขโฌโขt a RAW agent, this isnรขโฌโขt a Blackwater mercenaryรขโฌยฆ”
In this complex and confusingn climate, I would NOT totally rule out these assumptions.
Alhamdulillah
December 16, 2009 at 1:10 PM
I am a silent frequenter of this site, yet this article here has made me speak out. I don’t want to get in a debate here, but this this article really hurt with its inability to mention any of the root causes behind the creation of fanatics like the young man, and solutions towards eliminating them.
The video was presented without any context. This is how the gates of misinterpretation and misguidance are opened. Always. For all sides.
What was the point of this article? Give more gold nuggets for Islamophobes? Whip up more support for US operations? Bashing conspiracy theorists may seem like a fun past time, but it certainly isn’t very useful.
It was sheer ignorance to present this video without mentioning why people like him are created. Really, what gave this man his justification for his convoluted ideology? Did such people exist prior to 2001? What’s driving him to hold his beliefs? How was his amir able to establish his authority? All of this certainly didn’t happen in a vacuum.
Think about it. If the US drones stopped attacking Pakistan, if Pakistan could return to its previous, peaceful state, would young men like him have reason to kill innocent people?
I am not justifying his beliefs, I am trying to understand where they are coming from.
Once we’ve identified why people like him arose in the first place, we can work towards a solution. Will it be more useful to lambaste these brainwashed people, or perhaps work to remove the causes of their existence?
Baasel
December 17, 2009 at 12:06 PM
As-salamu alaykum brother,
I’m sorry but unfortunately you’re asking too many questions. You’re being rational, logical, and you’re asking “why?”
Why can’t you just blindly accept what people tell you? Don’t you see the names of credible Shayukh and MM bloggers? They are infallible and can never err.
Again, I think you’re actually “thinking.” Don’t “think,” just accept whatever MM posts. When they tell you to support Dr. Aafia Sadique once, do it, so you feel part of the community. When they tell you to condemn Fort Hood a billion times and pledge loyalty to Obama, just do it bro.
What’s with all this “thinking?” Don’t question MM, they’re the infallible voice of the Ummah!!!
Alhamdulillah
December 17, 2009 at 3:02 PM
I’m sure nobody here sees MM as the “infallible voice of the ummah.”
Not even MM itself.
MM certainly has very well written articles, and I’ve enjoyed and benefited from them immensely. They deserve to be supported for the good work they do, but at the same time, nobody is above reproach.
I know you’re being sarcastic, but such sarcasm hardly brings any good. More often than not, it discredits all the good work they may be doing.
Nadia
December 16, 2009 at 3:38 PM
This is despicable. I thought he would at least hesitate when he was asked about the innocence of young children being killed, but even then he showed no qualms about committing such a horrific act. It is clear in every reply he gave that he has been brainwashed towards having a mindset where any crime is justifiable, and then he can’t even cite religious justification for it! Subhanallah people who don’t think for themselves or follow what the Quran and Sunnah teaches and instead blindly follow ‘religious leaders’ have become a poison amongst our ummah.
Abd- Allah
December 16, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Assalam Alaikum
For everyone who is wondering what is the cause of this issue, then I say that the root cause of this issue and of all our other problems as an Ummah is IGNORANCE of our deen and being away from understanding and practicing Islam like the prophet and his companions. Yes, it is that simple!
The problem is when people take their knowledge about Islam from random ignorant shuyukh. If we simply stick to the great scholars of our past and to the current trustworthy scholars of today and take our knowledge from them and ask them for advice concerning the issues that we currently face, then we will be much better off.
Ignorance is indeed one of the worst enemies that anyone can have.
May Allah show us the truth and guide us to follow it.
waleed
December 16, 2009 at 9:19 PM
Seriously, what was the point of posting this?
Abd- Allah
December 16, 2009 at 9:58 PM
good question.
Regular Baba
December 17, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Salam
So we should just keep our heads buried in the sand? I wonder, when the Khawarij were around, whether the true muslims had conspiracy theories about them?
ubaida
December 17, 2009 at 8:40 AM
alhamdullillah rabil’alamin that this misguided person is apprehended. Anyone who knows people like these must be reported to the authorities! this misguided person his leader became a taghut for him
Anon-2
December 17, 2009 at 2:56 PM
i believe this is a hoax and have to agree with anon-1
i think MR AMAD here should open his brain for once
david
December 17, 2009 at 3:05 PM
Salam
I don’t know about you, but I have met nutcases here in America with these kinds of sentiments. I guess those kind of people are really CIA spies trying to trap me, right? How long will we keep denying that people like these exist? Until our own family members are targetted maybe?
MR
December 17, 2009 at 10:30 PM
This is unbelievable. Seriously, I don’t believe it. The guy doesn’t want to get married because he thinks he’s going to get his hoor-al-ayn? There is no guarantee for that. This guy is talking like he can guarantee jannah. How can any believer guarantee jannah for themselves?
It’s unbelievable. I can’t believe this.
jenan
December 18, 2009 at 2:03 PM
Those people are let me refrain from being hostile (yah right) are psychos who probably never opened the quran or sunnah. This guy honestly believes that blowing up mosques with children inside is okay! That there are no such thing as innocent people. Excuse my words, but the Taliban is messed up. They are psychotic barbarians who have no place in Islam. They are defiling the name of Islam and May Allah rid them of the Muslim community. Where are the leaders of Khalib ibn walid, Salahudeen Ayoubi, Omar Ibn Al Khatab…this video was very disturbing. They have no knowledge and just think that they are born to murder in the name of Islam. PRophet Muhammad would spit at that…They have been running Afghanistan since 1996 and what did they accomplish! They tortured their women, cut them off from going to school, and made the whole damn country even more backwards…than it already is. THe best part is “I know there is an arab scholar but i dont know his name?” Are you kidding me? They have no evidence for their justification and they know it….these people give islam a bad name! No wonder we are in the situation we are in……
Amad
December 18, 2009 at 3:10 PM
Our outstanding Blackwater forces, so devoted that they are willing to kill themselves (dedicated mercenaries), have attacked yet another Masjid. Yet, another “black-water suicide bomber” *snark* attack at a Masjid in Pakistan
Anonymous
December 18, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Amad, bro, with all due respect, why do you continue to tear down strawman arguments that no one ever posited and then beat your chest?
No one here is saying that Larry the Cable Guy is roaming the streets of Pakistan dressed as a Waziri ready to blow himself up. What is happening is that non-state operating militias such as Blackwater and both state affiliated and non-state operating intelligence agencies are creating scenarios wherein stupid Jihadi idiots are blowing themselves up. NONE of these guys would have acquired the level of weapons and explosives that are being used had they not been HANDED to them.
Why is this so hard for you to digest? There are countless PROVEN examples of this occurring throughout history.
Amad
December 19, 2009 at 1:56 AM
I fully digest and accept the presence of exterior actors. I believe though that they are busy as quasi-American agents, providing intelligence.
I cannot accept that the entire militant/terrorist movement in Pakistan is manufactured by them. We are giving them far too much credit and in the process glazing over our own problems. Until we remain hooked to conspiracies, we will not move ahead and work towards a solution. In my other article, one of my main premises is that most Pakistanis are moving beyond conspiracies, and that is a healthy sign. But those furthest from the ground, the internet critics, seem to be more prone to this blinding and pervasive viewpoint that they cannot see jihadi idiots blowing themselves up at the urging of their leaders who represent the khawarij of our time. And NOT exterior actors. It’s time to spread the credit.
P.S. You still haven’t answered my question as to why GEO would have to take so much trouble finding an Indian actor for the suicide bomber-to-be instead of hiring just an average Pakistani from the street? It’s completely illogical and stupid for them to do so. Also, this tape was played in front of the entire Pakistan… do you think that the Pakistanis who LIVE in Pakistan couldn’t figure out the difference between Indian and Pakistani lingo, but somehow we did??
Abu Ayesha Al Emarati
December 18, 2009 at 5:46 PM
Anwar Awlaki is also treading down this path, becoming a somewhat figurehead for the Takfeeris/Khawaarij.
I have lived amongst the Takfeeris in London for three years of my life. You don’t have to believe a word I say as apart from Amad I am unknown to all of you. But mark my words; these people are real.
The dogs of hell is what Rasool Allah called them.
Siraaj Muhammad
December 19, 2009 at 1:08 AM
Would it be fair to say that IF the person in the video was represented correctly, we all agree that this is reprehensible and condemnable, irrespective of whether the West “covers it” or not, irrespective of surrounding contextual factors, and irrespective of one’s perspective on contemporary jihad?
Siraaj
Amad
December 19, 2009 at 1:44 AM
Moulvis and halwas… but this time it isn’t that funny… IF indeed this was a deliberate act of poisoning (shouldn’t be a surprise as there is widespread precedent), it only provides more evidence of the utter disregard for human life, and even religious knowledge that the dogs who tried to poison them have:
‘Poisonous halwa’ lands ulema in hospital
anwar jalal
December 19, 2009 at 4:36 AM
The supposed arrested bomber speaks so fluent urdu( that means that he is not illitrate ) and he is also not of too younger age so one wonder that . how such person can be indoctrinated by some fanatic Mullha ?
Nadeer
December 19, 2009 at 6:08 AM
Amad,
I’m greatly disturbed by the fact that my previous comment was not published . I consider myself to be a muslim and you have dishonored me. I didn’t express any extreme view- even by your standards.I just posed some questions . Remember that Ahlussunnah used to narrate hadith from the Khawarij, because they didn’t tell lies(since according to khawarij sin would be kufr ) . You don’t give me even the respect for khawarij?
Amad
December 19, 2009 at 7:52 AM
Nadeer, to be honest, I don’t remember seeing a previous comment from you. Furthermore, there are about 10 people who moderate on this site. And finally, sometimes comments (esp. with any links) can get stuck in spam and if there is too much spam, they can be missed and removed.
Associates (Senior)
December 19, 2009 at 5:31 PM
So not publishing your comment causes you and your family dishonor?
-J.Hashmi
A critque
December 19, 2009 at 10:20 AM
By the way how a person arrested with charge of sucide bombing can answer with such confident and relex style ? , Such accused are supposed to be subjected to severe kind of torture when arrested so can not remain balanced for long long time but this supposed sucide bomber seems to be totally normal
He answers the questions put by the anchor with much ease and with out any delay. It seems if he knows the questions before hand
question also come to mind that as such persons are considered as highly dangerous criminals therefore are kept in high care but here we see that he is being interviewd in the comfortable room of a TV chennal
Many such other questions also prop up into the mind while watching the clip of the interview . Would some body comment upon the above points for enlighteing ?
Aftab
December 20, 2009 at 12:45 PM
The questions are important, and need to be viewed from that angle too Hope some wise one will comment upon it
Halifaxia
December 19, 2009 at 5:14 PM
Salaams, Its really upsetting to see videos like this. May Allah (swt) guide the brother and all who are astray. I think there has been many good discussion points on this, but most of the people who are leaving posts dont know or cant even put themselves in a place like tribal areas of Afghan, scholars of islam often talk about ’cause and effect’ – We should really be discussing the cause, there should be tv interviews with the people that cause this – but then again its not that easy becuase thats when we the muslims stay quite! Thats when we are seen to be supporting Terrorism!
Associates (Senior)
December 19, 2009 at 5:35 PM
It does not matter what situation a person is placed in. It does not justify him to become a feral animal who kills innocents.
-J.Hashmi
Halifaxia
December 20, 2009 at 5:24 AM
I completely agree, but there are many people you can bring to the camera to talk about things which they do that are unislamic not just murder, but my point which you misunderstood was to look at the cause rather than just having ago at each every individual case you come across… you dont seem to be asking the question why? who? its just my God I cant believe this guy actually thinks like this… we sat in our nice warm homes, sipping our tea and having worries about shall I wear my black thobe or white one today, cant really understand why these people want to do such things? becuase we dont ask the question or theres no articles about why? No sheikhs doing khtubas regarding why?…
Abdus Salam
December 19, 2009 at 6:11 PM
I think a Jihad against such people would be highly meritorious. Maybe the time has come for us to uproot this evil with our own hands.
Baasel
December 20, 2009 at 4:29 AM
As salamu alaykum all.
I apologize for my previous sarcastic comment, please remove it if you can. I respect all the MM shayukh and da’ees.
Back to the topic, the fact that you posted the video is fine. But Iรขโฌโขve been feeling a lack of รขโฌลbalance,รขโฌย on MM lately. (I believe) we have a responsibility as Muslims, to persistently attempt to alleviate any and all oppression that Muslims face. The children that lose their limbs as a result of U.S. cluster bombs are our children. As a Muslim, my cute little niece should be as important as the cute little girl in Afghanistan. I know MM has posted material on Dr. Aafia Sadique, but the reality out there is there may be many more Aaafia Sadiqueรขโฌโขs. Itรขโฌโขs the stories that donรขโฌโขt make headlines that we should be disseminating and if you need resources, Iรขโฌโขd be more than willing to help. Please go to YouTube and type “Deformed babies in Fallujah Iraq” as a result of the U.S. Invasion. Can MM post that please, or Stephen Walt’s recent article “How many Muslims has the U.S. killed in the past 30 years?” He takes the most conservative numbers and discusses the many Muslims lives lost as a result of U.S. foreign policy surprisingly BEFORE and AFTER 9/11.
I havenรขโฌโขt heard much on MM about the 30,000 roops being sent over there. Yes, we can ADVISE/critisize ourselves. But we should be careful to demonize an entire group, whose right it is to withdraw a foreign military from their lands.
Lastly, when FOX News gets one of those ex-Jihaadist on their show, do we believe what they say? Most of realize that they magnify and exaggerate a mistake of the Muslims, whereas the thousands the U.S. and Israel kills is not even spoken of. We (should) realize thereรขโฌโขs a propaganda effort on the part of FOX News, the same way we should realize that thereรขโฌโขs s nationalistic (enlightened moderation) agenda for this Pakistani news channel. The comments are disturbing, but we need to look at the bigger picture and ask why the U.S. is using Pakistani air space to bomb Afghanistan, our Muslim brothers.
Amad
December 20, 2009 at 4:58 AM
Baasel, the issue is that you choose to ignore the fact that there is FAR more material on this site critical of West and its allies, than critical of the victims-turned-aggressors.
The problem is that certain people (and I am talking in generalities, not about you) only come to MM when their beloved “mujahideen” (perversion of term) are under attack… so they miss all the counter-balancing stuff. And then they cry about our acquiescence to the West. And the flip-side occurs as well. Recently a commentator blamed us for being too “soft” on terrorism! You can never make everyone happy— that’s a lesson we learn everyday here.
I posted the following on another post and it is repeated below:
Hassan
December 20, 2009 at 9:36 AM
Yes there are lot of articles critical of west, (criticism is easy, as many liberals and few conservatives in US also criticize US and west, defending muslim individuals may be less popular, but still acceptable in society)
And there are lot of legitimate and needed articles on criticism of terrorists who hijack the name of islam.
But something is missing, and perhaps for a valid reason, I do not know the reason, I trust scholars to decide that. Which is encouraging “something” that would not be acceptable to west, and but is integral part of islam.
Dan
December 20, 2009 at 4:34 PM
But no posts about injustices by Muslims against Iraqi Christians, Coptic Christians, Pakistani Christians, Orakzai Sikhs, Indonesian Christians, etc.? Explain that Amad.
Amad, you remember this incident in Pakistan back in August? Why did you not bother to make a post condemning this gruesome crime? Still under the assumption that Muslim countries, especially those who claim to uphold Shari’a, do not oppress non-Muslims (when they clearly do)?
Danisfullofbs
December 20, 2009 at 8:06 PM
Dan – how about you start a blog criticizing the hundreds of thousands Iraqis, Muslim, Christian, Chaldean, and every other ethnicity and religion murdered by US bombs over the last few decades? Follow that up with apologizing for mass murder and oppression funded and supported by fundamentalist Christians and Jews against the Palestinian people.
Amad does a damn good job exposing hypocrisy by fundamentalist movements in the Muslim world – people of your ilk would like to paint all Muslims with the same broad brush.
IbnAbdullah
December 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Anwar Awlaki supports terrorism.
Abu Ayesha Al Emarati
December 23, 2009 at 5:36 PM
True. May Allah save us from him and people like him. Aameen
Hassan
December 23, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Hmm, should not this comment be deleted?
Abu Ayesha Al Emarati
December 24, 2009 at 4:28 AM
I would say the same about anyone who is upon blatant misguidance in terms of Aqeedah and Manhaj.
Sometimes SPUBS and TROID et al have a point when they warn against individuals like Al Awlaki. Unfortunately and ironically, in their extremism they throw the baby out with the bath-water.
Say what you will but Alhumdulillah, MuslimMatters is a Salafi-centric blog and even though a wide spectrum of ideologies may gather here, the official line is always one that is rooted in knowledge, evidences and a proper understanding of Aqeedah and Manhaj. And as history has demonstrated the ”Salafi” perspective will never be popular.
The philosophy of kill, kill, kill is popular amongst foolish youth and reactionary pseudo-Islamic political activists. How many times have these fools humiliated themselves and other Muslims and tarnished Islam’s image with their hasty pronouncements and declarations of war with the infidel? These people don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. Enough is enough. Muslims should stop apologising and defending these nut jobs. If you’re really feeling pious, then expose these pretenders what they really are.
None of our Ulema, NOT A SINGLE ONE has called for suicide-bombings or mass demonstrations in the streets, or taking up vigilantism. So people who jump the gun by engaging in the afore-mentioned activities are implying that the Ulema are less informed than they are or have less concern for the Ummah than they have.
May Allah guide us all to the correct understanding of the Deen, the understanding of our Salaf and through it to restore to the Muslims their honour and dignity. Aameen
Hassan
December 24, 2009 at 7:11 AM
Right, I would prefer a scholarly refutation or condemnation, rather than a one liner by some unknown individual. But jazak-Allah khyran.
Hassan
December 24, 2009 at 8:05 AM
And also he may be dead now, so lets be careful and take islamic approach on refuting him:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5BN0S220091224
IbnAbdullah
December 24, 2009 at 2:32 PM
Brother Awlaki wrote a post on his blog entitled, “Fighting Government Armies in the Muslim World.” In this post, he justifies and incites rebellion in general against Muslim countries. His fault is that these countries are protected under the Organization of the Islamic Conference and every book of fiqh mentions the need to fulfill all covenants. Awlaki justifies rebellion with the rhetoric and arguments of Ayman Zawahiri.
There were numerous examples of Awlaki’s aggressiveness on his blog until it was taken down. Brother Awlaki translated “Constants on the path of Jihad” which had been taken from Yusuf al-Uyayree, the Al-Qaeda khobar bomber. In it, he supports leaderless jihad. The fault in this is that leaderless jihad leads to vigilantism which leads to the chaotic bombings we are seeing.
Brother Awlaki uses the arguments of Al-Qaeda and our scholars have already refuted Al-Qaeda. So it is sufficient as a correction of Awlaki’s mistakes for one to read the fatwa and arguments against al-Qaeda posted on this blog and on Shaykh Salman al-Ouda’s website, islamtoday.com.
We all need to pray for each other, ask Allah to guide us to the correct path. I hope brother Awlaki is not dead because I think he needs to talk to the Ulema in Saudi Arabia and to see the Sakina program.
Abu Ayesha Al Emarati
December 24, 2009 at 5:50 PM
If the report is true then, I pray to Allah to forgive our brother Anwar Al Awlaki his sins and to grant him Jannah, Aameen.
And if he is alive, I ask Allah to keep him safe and guide him away from the path he is currently upon and towards the Sirat Al Mustaqeem, the correct understand of the Aqeedah and Manhaj. Aameen
Abd- Allah
December 31, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Assalam Alaikum
Brother Abu Ayesha Al Emarati.
I like the way how you discredited “SPUBS and TROID et al” that they are an extreme and then turn around to compliment and say that “MuslimMatters is a Salafi-centric blog”
To some (salafis), MM (and the shuyukh behind it) are the opposite extreme of SPUBS and TROID (on the salafi spectrum).
While some salafis have gone as far as refuting other salafi shuyukh because of minor disagreements, you see other salafis going as far as accepting some of the deviant sects and uniting with the misguided shuyukh instead of refuting them.
Perhaps the Truth and the correct path is somewhere in between those two extremes, and salafis should all go back and unite upon that moderate path again.
Allah knows best.
atheistdebater
December 23, 2009 at 11:46 PM
All killing of humans is wrong. It does not matter whether the humans being killed are Muslims, Christians or whatever.
The United States of America is a democracy. If you disagree with its foreign policy, you may engage in the democratic process to change things. Vote. Write your Congressman or Senator. Stage a protest. Contribute to a candidate of your choice. If you are an American, and you disagree with American foreign policy, you have a responsibility to make your voice heard.
Merry Christmas.
Holly Garza
December 24, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Very true point. By the way, thanks for the wishes but Muslims don’t celebrate Christmas.
atheistdebater
December 24, 2009 at 1:07 AM
Us atheists do not have any holidays we can claim as our own, so we have to enjoy the holidays of our religious countrymen. What do I care, as long as I get a day off, so I can enjoy some time with my family. I would wish you a happy Ramadan, but I know that has already passed. When is Darwin’s birthday? I will wish you a happy Darwin day.
ubaida
December 27, 2009 at 7:28 AM
o Atheistdebater know that if you dont accept Alllah as your true God and muhammad sallahu alahi wassalam as your messenger then know for sure that you will end up in hell-fire!. Im just telling you up front some people might go around it but im telling you the consequences of your actions. This life is not a game wake up before its too late
May Allah save us from hell fire and let us die in the state of islam, ameen
Dan
December 27, 2009 at 9:54 PM
There’s a reason why people dislike religious zealots/fake wannabe mullahs such as yourself.
Imran
December 27, 2009 at 9:41 AM
Do you guys really believe this video is real!!
Before making any comments on such a big and complex issue please verify the authenticity of these classic Jewo I mean Geo interviews:)
Surat Al-รยคujurรยt – 49:6
O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.
Amad
December 27, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Of course not Imran… the Jous made the entire thing up. Just like all the routine suicide bombings and bombers-wannabe. All the bad stuff is all the Joos responsibility… Muslims are just innocent victims everytime.
Imran
December 27, 2009 at 3:31 PM
Don’t get emotional Amad,
Bring me some evidence regarding this video, I will not make a judgment or even have an opinion on a certain issue based on that video.
Itรขโฌโขs funny how some reporters get a chance to meet the actual fighters and never pose these questions to them. The video is such a set up itรขโฌโขs not even funny. Like the ones you get on Youtube with fake conversions from Islam to Christianity, or the one where Brelvis pretend to be Whabis in mock debates like you see on some channels like Noor TV you know the ones Iรขโฌโขm talking about:)
All I got to say is take most things you here from the media with a pinch of salt, and before you run your mouth off remember how dangerous the tongue is.
IbnAbdullah
December 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM
It is strange and sad that so many Muslims give the benefit of the doubt to terrorists. These terrorist criminals use the ayah in Surat al-Hujurat to exploit the Muslims.
Muslims need to get their heads out of the sand and to purge these terrorists.
Justacomment
December 27, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Imran is another Revolution Muslim brainwashed Taliban cheerleader…any media source that exposes the Taliban as barbarians and hypocrites is a jewish conspiracy…but when the Taliban release their own beheading videos the cheerleaders watch them eating popcorn. The only question to ask is whether they would support the message of the alleged “jew” in the video if it was proven to be a Muslim. Imran here probably agrees with everything stated in the video, so you don’t even have to get to the authenticity question.
Imran
December 28, 2009 at 7:40 AM
Call me what you like mate, still no one has provided any evidence on the authenticity of this video.
Abu Rumaisa
December 28, 2009 at 1:42 PM
Amad,
There’s no doubt that MM has regularly posted articles in support of Muslims who are being oppressed & also against the evil actions of the west. But I think I think you have misunderstood the criticism against MM.
MM has posted many articles criticizing many “Mujahideen” who are fighting against occupiers & oppressors in Muslim lands. Many times, the criticism was very much needed as no one is perfect and everyone needs to reminded of what’s right & what’s wrong and I applaud MM for doing so. This very article is an example of that. But MM fails to publish articles where these very same “Mujahideen” send letters & videos claiming innocence from what they are being charged with!
Criticism is great but where’s the support for those who are fighting against the occupiers to free their lands without targeting innocent civilians. It’s great to tell them of the mistakes they are making in warfare but where is advice on how best to fight these occupiers (physically not just spiritually as the occupation is very much real). I am not sure if MM realizes it or not but the articles & comments sound as if Jihad against occupiers is not allowed in Islam!
Dan
December 28, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Sure, they are fighting against oppression…yet when they rule there is plenty of oppression committed by the forces you seem to admire. The Taliban’s rule in Swat was full of oppression, as well as their rule in Afghanistan, so where was your outrage then?
You’re not fooling anyone. They only fight for the freedom to oppress others. Just ask the Sikhs in Orakzai how they felt when your beloved “mujahideen” torched their homes because they were unable to pay jizya. Is that jihad to you?
angry guy
December 28, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Good thing that the early muslims didn’t treat the Khawarij of their day with the same pathetic arguments we are hearing here.
angry guy
December 28, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Salam
This was in October.
Pakistan braced for more militant attacks ahead of an anticipated offensive against a Taliban stronghold, as the insurgents said they bombed a U.N. relief agency because international aid work was not in “the interest of Muslims.”
The suicide bombing Monday at the World Food Program headquarters in Islamabad killed five people, prompting the U.N. to temporarily shut all its offices across the country.
Anybody want to justify this? Killing muslims (some of the the people who died were Pakistani) who were feeding the poor? The so called ‘Taliban’ claimed responsibility for this one. Maybe the fact that these muslims were working for the UN made their blood halal? Or maybe it was a Jewish suicide bomber? Or maybe it was a CIA agent pretending to claim responsibility? Ironic that while some people do this in the name of Islam, here in America we have muslims in the name of Islam feeding poor Americans.
angry guy
December 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM
I hear the silence… again, anyone want to justify why murdering muslims who were involved in feeding poor muslims is valid because “it is not in the interest of muslims”?
Abu Rumaisa
December 29, 2009 at 2:11 PM
why will anyone want to justify that? if u didn’t read the comments till now, no one including those support jihad against occupiers approve of attacks that intentionally target innocent civilians regardless of who carries out these attacks!
Muslim by Allah's Grace
December 29, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Asslamau Alaikum,
The video is truly shocking if it indeed true. For a Muslim to be sacrificing his life for a cause that he doesn’t even know the shariah daleel for..what kind of Islam is this? The “suicide bomber” refers to a book written by some unknown and unnamed Arab scholar and that’s his daleel for what he is doing!!! If his “ameer” had ordered him to prostrate to an idol, would he have done that as well due to blind following?
Secondly, the blood of Muslims is precious and inviolable. Indeed, there is a hadeeth that the unlawful shedding of a Muslim’s blood is more serious in front of Allah than the destruction of the Kaaba itself. Abdullah ibn Umar (ra) used to tell those who killed unjustly to drink cold water in this life since they would not taste it in the next (their abode being hell…ma’adh Allah). This confused young man is claiming that even the Muslim babies are not innocent for not going out to the battlefield. Does he even know what he is saying or just regurgitating mindless and dangerous nonsense?
However, despite all this we need to know that the Pakistani government is not innocent in this saga. This fitnah all started after the army operations in the tribal areas and the Lal Masjid massacre. Pakistan continues to be a major frontline ally in the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan (its rulers admitting to their collaboration proudly), and many scholars (including Sh. Bin Baaz and Ibn Uthaymeen) have ruled this form of allying with kuffar to fight against Muslims to be MAJOR KUFR.
I believe the solution to this crisis is two-fold: the Pakistani rulers need to do tawbah and disassociate themselves from the American Crusade on Afghanistan. Next, they need to immediately bring to a halt all army operations in the tribal areas and carry out peace talks with the rebels under the auspices of well-known Ulama like Mufti Taqi Usmani for instance. Only by doing this can the specter of civil war be avoided and Muslive lives saved.
May Allah guide us all to As-Sirat Al-Mustaqeem and have mercy on this Ummah…Ameen!
Dan
December 30, 2009 at 12:25 AM
Why don’t you distance yourself from the Taliban and your Islamist fantasies of imposing your Taliban-style Shariah on the entire region, and then talk.
I pray to Allah swt that both the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban are wiped out from the face of this planet, along with the corrupt secular officials that plunder and loot Pakistan.
You’re not doing yourself any favors when you come out to defend miscreants like the Lal Masjid fanatics. You have a soft spot for them just because they aspire to impose their draconian version of Shariah, the same one you and most people on this board blindly endorse.
BTW, the invasion of Afghanistan would not have occurred if 19 Arab Muslim men didn’t choose to fly planes into buildings full of innocent civilians. Instead of blaming the West, why don’t you have the courage to condemn the Taliban for allowing refuge for extremists from the world over? Contrary to popular belief, no one wants the Taliban back (save for delusional fantasists who would love to see minorities subjugated, which is common with Taliban apologists).
Amad
December 30, 2009 at 3:26 AM
Dan, I know its probably like talking to a wall, but we don’t see the world in black and white, like Bush. Regardless of how “fanatic” the Lal Masjid students were (the extent is really up to debate), there was no excuse for the massacre and possibly use of chemical weapons by govt forces. This was a human tragedy, a murderous spree committed by Musharraf, and I firmly believe that this was the nail in his coffin that led to his eventual demise… and Allah knows what he is in store in his akhira for the injustice he meted out.
You just seem like the flipside of the extremists… they want all your ilk dead and you want all their ilk dead, regardless of the shades of gray, even among who we may consider “extremists”. Until you mellow your rhetoric, no one will pay attention to what you are saying and it will be just a screaming match between two sides who don’t hear other out.
As for who wants Taliban back, from a purely strategic perspective, even the West is starting to consider the possibility that a partnership with elements from it may be best for Afghanistan’s interest and stability. The Taliban made tons of mistakes, many fatal, including harboring terrorists, but you’d have to have your sand buried in the head to think that “no wants the Taliban back”. And this isn’t me or the “extremists” telling you. It’s the mainstream media. Here’s one example for you:
We want the Taliban back, say ordinary Afghans
Dan
December 30, 2009 at 11:10 AM
“Dan, I know its probably like talking to a wall, but we donรขโฌโขt see the world in black and white, like Bush. Regardless of how รขโฌลfanaticรขโฌย the Lal Masjid students were (the extent is really up to debate), there was no excuse for the massacre and possibly use of chemical weapons by govt forces. This was a human tragedy, a murderous spree committed by Musharraf, and I firmly believe that this was the nail in his coffin that led to his eventual demiseรขโฌยฆ and Allah knows what he is in store in his akhira for the injustice he meted out.”
No excuse? They built a makeshift mosque on land that was STOLEN. They threatened suicide attacks on parliament. They harassed women who dared not to wear the burkha. They also kidnapped women and accused them of running brothels without any evidence, and even accused them of being Shi’a. You are so quick to condemn Musharraf, yet you are unable to criticize their actions. Why is that? Is it because you share their views of an oppressive state that suits your beliefs? Those Lal Masjid students deserved what they got, I have no sympathy for these people whatsoever. Just because they claim to uphold the message of the Almighty doesn’t stray them from criticism nor does it mean I should be automatically sympathetic to them.
“You just seem like the flipside of the extremistsรขโฌยฆ they want all your ilk dead and you want all their ilk dead, regardless of the shades of gray, even among who we may consider รขโฌลextremistsรขโฌย. Until you mellow your rhetoric, no one will pay attention to what you are saying and it will be just a screaming match between two sides who donรขโฌโขt hear other out.”
There is no shades of grey with Wahabi extremists. They want to impose their draconian dictatorship on others, just like they did in Afghanistan.
“As for who wants Taliban back, from a purely strategic perspective, even the West is starting to consider the possibility that a partnership with elements from it may be best for Afghanistanรขโฌโขs interest and stability. The Taliban made tons of mistakes, many fatal, including harboring terrorists, but youรขโฌโขd have to have your sand buried in the head to think that รขโฌลno wants the Taliban backรขโฌย. And this isnรขโฌโขt me or the รขโฌลextremistsรขโฌย telling you. Itรขโฌโขs the mainstream media. Hereรขโฌโขs one example for you:”
Tell you what Amad, why don’t you go to Bamyan, Takhar, and Baghlan provinces and see if they want the Taliban back. They made enough mistakes to where they should not rule the country again. For someone that complains about oppression, you sure don’t have a problem with the Taliban dictatorship to rule again. Hazaras suffered a lot under their rule, which is comparable to what the Israelis did to Gaza, yet you choose not to believe them. You disregard their grievances and still insist that Afghans want the Taliban back. Newsflash Amad: Afghanistan isn’t 100% Sunni. No Shi’a wants the Taliban back, period. As for that article, 1) it is more than 2 years old and 2) it consists of sentiment in southern Afghanistan, not the entire country.
IbnAbdullah
December 30, 2009 at 11:45 AM
I like Dan. A voice of reason around here.
Shibli Zaman
December 30, 2009 at 12:54 PM
Dan, for the record, I do not want the Taliban to rule Afghanistan ever again (unless they make some very serious changes), but I do believe they should be allowed to represent their party in governmental elections. I believe this is going to happen eventually. Unfortunately, what is in the way of this is that a good portion of the country does want the Taliban back simply because they see them as the only force resisting occupation. Afghans would prefer an indigenous tyrant over a foreign liberator.
Yet, you keep spewing a lot of fallacious rhetoric and I wonder what perspective you’re coming from.
“Tell you what Amad, why donรขโฌโขt you go to Bamyan, Takhar, and Baghlan provinces and see if they want the Taliban back.”
Have you? I spoke to Uzbeks from Baghlan in 2001 and they stated that they felt more secure under the Taliban and they are the smallest minority in Baghlan along with the Hazaras.
“Hazaras suffered a lot under their rule, which is comparable to what the Israelis did to Gaza, yet you choose not to believe them.”
You keep repeating this like a mantra, but you still never replied as to how the Pashtuns of Wardak, as just one of many examples, elected HAZARAS to represent them in the Wolesi Jirga. Wardak is 60% Pashtun, yet 3 or their 5 elected representatives are Hazaras. Please explain that.
It is true that Hazaras’ social status in Afghanistan is similar to that of the Blacks of America. Yet, while we all acknowledge that the Blacks have suffered greatly, the Hazaras haven’t been through anything even remotely close. So to portray that the Hazaras were victims of genocide and slavery in Afghanistan is just absurd. Also, the prejudice against them is NOT reserved to Pashtuns, but to almost everyone in Afghanistan, primarily Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Pashtuns. They all treat Hazaras similarly to how Blacks are treated in the USA. Some parts of the USA treat Blacks well where they are in high concentrations and some parts of the USA treat Blacks poorly where they are tiny minorities. The same goes for Hazaras in Afghanistan. There’s no slavery and there’s no genocide. There’s a social stigma against them that goes back 1000 years to the Mongol invasions. Also, any Afghan (or anyone even familiar with Afghan society) knows that both Pashtuns and Tajiks alike refer to any Mongoloid featured Afghan as “Azaara”. Uzbeks, Mongoloid looking Tajiks such as are common in Badakhshan, Turkomen, etc are all called “Azaara” by the Tajiks and Pashtuns alike. It is not a prejudice against the Hazara race as much as it is a resentment to the Mongol invasions and decimation that is residual to this day. Hazaras just happen to be the most Mongoloid looking of all ethnicities in Afghanistan.
You also seem to completely gloss over the heinous crimes committed by the Hazaras under the banners of Hizb-e-Wahdat. Also, Dostum is half Hazara so Jumbish had a large Hazara following. Why are you silent about significant Hazara war crimes? Are they justified in your eyes?
“Newsflash Amad: Afghanistan isnรขโฌโขt 100% Sunni.”
Newsflash Dan: Hazaras aren’t 100% Shi`ah. The Taymani and Aymaqs are Sunni in spite of aggressive Iranian sponsored Shi`ite missionary activity amongst them. Most Hazaras in Ghor and Badghis are Sunni. Many Hazaras are Ismaili and outcasted by both the Shi`as and the Sunnis.
Frankly speaking, and with all due respect, I just don’t think you are as familiar with the demographics you are screaming about as you’d like everyone to think.
Amad
December 30, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Jak Shibli… I also don’t know that much about Afghanistan, and I find your knowledgeable comments on this suffering nation’s people quite enlightening.
From my vantage, it almost comes down to lesser of the two evils when it comes to dictatorship/authoritarian rule vs. anarchy and “false democracy”… Most common people share a comon theme with all of us, regardless of their ethnicity or religion. They prefer to give up a lot of liberty for order. Taliban provided that in addition to getting rid of drugs, even if it came with a lot of unfortunate baggage. You even see this in America where people will be willing to give up all sorts of rights if it comes to their individual security. Similarly, one has to think really hard if Iraq was better off with Saddam… and I think most people, even in the West, and even on the ground, probably prefer a ruthless (and SECULAR by the way) ruler like Saddam than the puppet show and insecurity in Iraq right now.
Eventually, the Taliban will be brought into the government somehow (as you also suggest), and hopefully with checks and balances, what was good of them can be part (not all) of a brighter future for all of Afghanistan’s people, including all the ethnic minorities and sects.
Dan
December 30, 2009 at 1:34 PM
“Dan, for the record, I do not want the Taliban to rule Afghanistan ever again (unless they make some very serious changes), but I do believe they should be allowed to represent their party in governmental elections. I believe this is going to happen eventually.”
I don’t mind their representation either, but if they lose out, then they better not resort to bomb attacks as the Taliban in NWFP have been doing since the MMA lost out to the ANP last year.
“Unfortunately, what is in the way of this is that a good portion of the country does want the Taliban back simply because they see them as the only force resisting occupation. Afghans would prefer an indigenous tyrant over a foreign liberator.”
The only Afghans would want are Pashtuns. Again, Hazaras welcomed the US invasion since they received more rights than in any time in their history.
“Have you? I spoke to Uzbeks from Baghlan in 2001 and they stated that they felt more secure under the Taliban and they are the smallest minority in Baghlan along with the Hazaras.”
I’ll admit that the Taliban were able to provide security…at a price of course.
“You keep repeating this like a mantra, but you still never replied as to how the Pashtuns of Wardak, as just one of many examples, elected HAZARAS to represent them in the Wolesi Jirga. Wardak is 60% Pashtun, yet 3 or their 5 elected representatives are Hazaras. Please explain that.”
You keep parroting Wardak, which is most likely an anomaly. Still doesn’t change the fact that Hazaras were historically discriminated and hated against. And again, I did not get this from the Kite Runner, but from speaking to Hazaras who fled the Taliban’s rule in Melbourne, AU.
“It is true that Hazarasรขโฌโข social status in Afghanistan is similar to that of the Blacks of America. Yet, while we all acknowledge that the Blacks have suffered greatly, the Hazaras havenรขโฌโขt been through anything even remotely close. So to portray that the Hazaras were victims of genocide and slavery in Afghanistan is just absurd.”
That is amusing. You downplay the sufferings of Hazaras while you fail to note that genocide and slavery DID occur. Abdur Rahman Khan invaded Hazarajat in the 1890s and tried to forcibly convert the Hazaras to Sunni Islam. Why else would there be large Hazara diaspora communities in Mashad, Iran, and Quetta, Pakistan? They were clearly victims of genocide not just by the Taliban but by Abdur Rahman Khan.
Here’s some food for thought:
“Also, the prejudice against them is NOT reserved to Pashtuns, but to almost everyone in Afghanistan, primarily Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Pashtuns. They all treat Hazaras similarly to how Blacks are treated in the USA. Some parts of the USA treat Blacks well where they are in high concentrations and some parts of the USA treat Blacks poorly where they are tiny minorities. The same goes for Hazaras in Afghanistan. Thereรขโฌโขs no slavery and thereรขโฌโขs no genocide.”
Again, read the excerpt above if you’re still in denial.
“Thereรขโฌโขs a social stigma against them that goes back 1000 years to the Mongol invasions. Also, any Afghan (or anyone even familiar with Afghan society) knows that both Pashtuns and Tajiks alike refer to any Mongoloid featured Afghan as รขโฌลAzaaraรขโฌย. Uzbeks, Mongoloid looking Tajiks such as are common in Badakhshan, Turkomen, etc are all called รขโฌลAzaaraรขโฌย by the Tajiks and Pashtuns alike. It is not a prejudice against the Hazara race as much as it is a resentment to the Mongol invasions and decimation that is residual to this day. Hazaras just happen to be the most Mongoloid looking of all ethnicities in Afghanistan.”
So why is it that every Pashtun wants all Hazaras sent back to Mongolia? Like it or not, it is a sentiment espoused by a lot of Pashtuns. Pashtuns hate Hazaras simply because Hazaras are hard-working people who are not opposed to females being educated.
“You also seem to completely gloss over the heinous crimes committed by the Hazaras under the banners of Hizb-e-Wahdat. Also, Dostum is half Hazara so Jumbish had a large Hazara following. Why are you silent about significant Hazara war crimes? Are they justified in your eyes?”
Can you cite me a Hazara war crime that comes close to Mazar-i-Sharif, Yakaolang, and Robotok?
Your arguments are similar to how Serbs use when they try to bring up Muslim crimes in Bosnia, ignoring the fact that they committed the bulk of the heinous crimes. It’s quite hypocritical for Muslims to adopt such an absurd position to place blame on the victim.
“Newsflash Dan: Hazaras arenรขโฌโขt 100% Shi`ah. The Taymani and Aymaqs are Sunni in spite of aggressive Iranian sponsored Shi`ite missionary activity amongst them. Most Hazaras in Ghor and Badghis are Sunni. Many Hazaras are Ismaili and outcasted by both the Shi`as and the Sunnis.”
The Aymaqs don’t even consider themselves to be Hazara for crying out loud.
“Frankly speaking, and with all due respect, I just donรขโฌโขt think you are as familiar with the demographics you are screaming about as youรขโฌโขd like everyone to think.”
With all due respect, I think you are in denial about the extent of the crimes that Pashtun Sunnis have committed against the Hazara. There is plenty of evidence to showcase that which is not derived simply from The Kite Runner.
Salaam
Amad
December 30, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Thanks for admitting this. The price was not cheap either, I think most agree. But what would one prefer: burqa due to government sanction (but safety) or burqa due to fear of rape? That’s just one example of a choice that everyday Afghanis are indeed making, and I think many preferred the former.
Hassan
December 30, 2009 at 8:07 AM
America was founded on Sept 10th, 2001, and was attacked on Sept 11th, 2001. Why did Taliban harbor terrorists that would attack an innocent new born country!!
naveed
February 5, 2010 at 5:53 AM
well brothers n sisters
salam to u all
Islam is peace(salamti) for every living being unless someone claims to be treated in a punitive manner. I could nt c this video but i had seen many like em n unfortunately i met a number of guys like the one mentioned in here. i almost read all the comments n views n responses n a few quarrels also in which people want us to get involved.
Look The Islam never came in particular for any Shia or Sunni this has come for the whole humanity the whole universe(Aalimeen) n Hazoor e Akram SAW very clearly stated that ” amongst u the muslim is with whose hands or tongue none other muslim gets hurt” to me thats the defination of a Muslim n now if we look arround we can very clearly c how many muslims v are or who all r the muslims around us. instead v waste our energies on claiming to b shias or sunnis or blaming each other we must understand n unite n identify who is the one or wat is it that is making us kill each other or making such suicide bombers get born n kill so many innocents.
As for as the talibans r concerned, not all of them are bad or ruthless. the one who posted it was rite in saying so that he is not a black water mercenary or an outsider but b sure that the ones who trained him are the ones who r either being paid by the external forces or are the top agents of such agencies like CIA< Black water, RAW, Mossad. we must know that these agencies dun do nuthin in haste they prepared agents who can speak local languages with all the local rituals n customs n traditions n then floated them in with gud amount of money. most of there training centers are formed at such distant n remote places in the name of madrissahs that a commoner can not think of going there n their agents move around in the garb of hard core muslims to hunt for the talent n then they bring em there n train em in a way that the results we can all c. an hour earlier a blast took place in a bus at Shahrah e Faisal Karachi which was carrying the mourners for juloos.
well wat we need to do now is to identify the enemy n use our energies to get united aginst the identified enemy. for killers it matters nuthin weather a sunni has died or a shia embraced the death n tell u one thing that after the blasts the pieces of flesh dun claim to b a shia or suni they give the same look so please please come out of it n use ur energies to find out the killers.
Another thing, Try to be a gud human n u ll automatically become a gud muslim.
Love u all n Allah May Bless u all with His Kindest Blessings n the needs u all have (Ameen)
slaveofAllah4lyf
February 5, 2010 at 7:24 AM
SubhanAllah!! this guy is nuts….how can he even have those views? did he forgot about shedding bloods on muslims being more heavy in the sight of Allah than the destruction of the Ka’abah?? this is extremism…actually…even extremism will be left behind this guy…
May Allah guide him n us…ameen!
Mohammad Waqas Shaikh
February 5, 2010 at 5:44 PM
We ought to do something about this takfiri ideology among Muslims. Kuffars are buying such so called mullahs who training and brain washing our youth.
JazakAllah kher for sharing.
Dave
July 24, 2010 at 3:32 PM
We should just warn civilians that whoever puts himself near a terrorist puts himself in danger.
Can’t keep fighting like we do.. they figured it out and now they take advantage of our morality.