Injustice
Chemical Weaponry Used at Lal Masjid (Red Mosque)?
Br. Kashif alerted us to the following post with regards to the possible use of chemical weapons in the Lal Masjid massacre:
“Teeth Maestro in a recent post referred to AAJ TV’s programme ‘Live with Talat’ where Talat Hussain narrated his tour of Jamia Hafsa with a media team taken for inspection by the government after the massacre. Talat, when asked about white spots on the walls, was told that it is White Phosphorus.
White Phosphorus is a flare / smoke producing incendiary weapon which is also used as an offensive Anti-Personnel flame compound capable of causing serious burns or death. White phosphorus weapons are controversial today because of its potential use against humans, for whom one-tenth of a gram is a deadly dose and according to the Geneva Convention which was later amended by the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons signed into effect in 1997, expressively prohibits the use against civilians. White Phosphorus weapons have been used in the recent past by Israel in Lebanon and US and UK in Iraq, but probably the first time ever by a an army against its own people.”
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Mujahideen Ryder
August 1, 2007 at 10:54 AM
SubhanAllah! :o
aarij
August 1, 2007 at 11:02 AM
Wow. Subhan Allah. Regardless of whether they were right or wrong in what they did and how they did it, NOTHING they did warranted such a barbaric response.
May Allah forgive the sins of those who died in Lal Masjid and write them down as shuhada, ameen.
ibnmasood
August 1, 2007 at 4:27 PM
I feel this is very irresponsible journalism on the part of anyone who chooses to report such things. The Pakistani government keeps getting criticized over more speculation than fact.
Let’s look at the accusation that the government planted all those weapons in Lal Masjid. Then how the heck was the army staved off for so many months and how did so many army soldiers get killed in the standoff? Evidently, Lal Masjid had already been packing.
And the government’s explanation is that a suicide bomber did this…and you know what? That story makes much more sense! Why would the government even raise speculation that chemical weaponry was used during this scuffle if they were going to be doubted and incriminated for “crimes against humanity” by their mistrusting enemies?
Sure you could likely counter that the government led the tour and was able to create the cover-up story of a suicide bomber before they were accused, but endicting the government of foulplay is speculation without proof. What proof is there that all these conspiracy stories are true? They have the testimony of one unnamed student saying that the govt ammo was burning people? Shouldn’t they have the same observations across the board? Wouldn’t there be plenty more rooms with those traces of phosphorus? Wouldn’t the pattern of debris on the wall make a more sporadic pattern instead of a clear pattern that indicates explosion?
Let’s maintain the Islamic approach of “innocent until proven guilty.” It’s especially important in this circumstance because if we continue demonizing and criminalizing each other, we ruin our chances of reconciliation–each side is angry and only seeking to become angrier. We are shooting ourselves in the foot by letting these sorts of stories get out of proportion because this story is a humiliating example of how Muslims really can’t get their act together, and we shouldn’t keep working to expose them! Instead, we need to act responsibly with our voices, definitely not to criticise and not always to make excuses either, but to call people to mutual understanding and respecting of each others views, thereby uniting once again on common ground instead of widening our gap by exposing and concentrating on our differences.
I call MuslimMatters to please be more responsible with their journalism.
Jazakum Allahu khaira
aarij
August 1, 2007 at 4:35 PM
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=7224
aarij
August 1, 2007 at 5:07 PM
The above, by the way, happened around April 17th…a good 3 months before the government stormed Lal Masjid.
Proof:
http://iftikharajmal.wordpress.com/2007/04/17/%d9%85%d8%b0%d8%a7%da%a9%d8%b1%d8%a7%d8%aa-%db%8c%d8%a7-%d9%85%d8%b0%d8%a7%d9%82-%d8%b1%d8%a7%d8%aa/
The post is aptly titled “Mazakraat ya mazaq raat?”, which roughly translates to “Dialogue or Jokes?”.
There are a lot more articles in Urdu and interview clips in Urdu that if one reads and listens to with an open mind, the reality becomes clear.
May Allah guide and help us all, WAllahul Musta’an – and Allah is the source of all help.
Amad
August 1, 2007 at 6:02 PM
ibnmasood… MM is not a news outlet. We discuss opinions and viewpoints. Sometimes we report, but that is rare.
All our information is usually corroborated with some news piece or some other evidence. Sometimes not. That’s what blogs are. If you want news, then this is not the place for it.
It’s amazing that we want benefit of doubt for Musharraf, yet many of us had little for the Muslims who died in this massacre. IF stuff was as clean as a whistle, the government wouldn’t go through such great pains to block of journalists from the site for a long time, bury the dead in the middle of the night and basically do a lot of other coverups.
The government did not raise speculation, the people did! Of course Busharraf tried his best to plan and plant… but the truth always seems to find a way to sneak out. And slowly, but surely things are being set straight (with regards to the real story). Hopefully the Supreme Court’s involvement will lead to some solid independence, though I read in the news, that they were being completely excluded form the proceedings.
All we are asking for is an independent inquiry. If facts are so clear for the government, they’d be happy to comply. That sure doesn’t seem to be the case.
waslaam.
The Wahhabi Misanthrope
August 1, 2007 at 6:17 PM
ibn Masood…look, mate, there’s no need to think well of Musharraf’s administration. He pays plenty of people to do that for him.
What about the dispossessed? Those without voices? They need our advocacy more than anyone else.
ibnmasood
August 1, 2007 at 9:45 PM
My point was, let’s try to be constructive. The audience of this blog isn’t the Pakistani government, it’s mostly western Muslims, many of whom probably come from Pakistani descent. Instead of giving people more reason to hate, why not call people to act positively and seek reconciliation and peace? I mean, Islamically, Abdul Rashid Ghazi had no right to oppose the leader of his nation in such a rebellious way–Islam teaches us to have patience when we fall under the leadership of tyrants in order to prevent anarchy. So much blame does lie on both sides, and instead of polarizing the masses, we should help them achieve balanced perspectives. It’s all about balance, yaar! I mean, it’s not like we can just condemn Musharraf and say we need to scrap him for someone better…I mean, who else is there? Might as well work with who we got, and working with someone requires a minimum amount of respect and a willingness to help acheive compromise for both sides in this.
By the way, I consider blogs to serve as amateur journalism. In the same way as mainstream journalism does, you shape the opinions of your readers by the facts/opinions you make available to them. Just because it’s not “real” journalism doesn’t make you less accountable for swaying the masses in a more positive direction…
Kashif
August 2, 2007 at 8:21 AM
@ibnmasood: If people inside Lal Masjid had so much ammunition why they never used it? cause if it would have been used, army causalities would have been 3-4 times more.
I do not commend Ghazi on his stance. His approach was not right but the way he and others in Lal Masjid were disposed off, is unimaginable. I don’t believe a government can massacre its own like this.
You are saying this is propaganda and public hype. What about the handling of dead by the government? There is visual proof and eye witness account available in media that government just dumped debris of Lal Masjid in a water drain. That debris contained decomposed body parts as well as torn pages of Quran (http://www.chowrangi.com/is-this-islamic-republic-of-pakistan.html) What do you say about this?
Mujahideen Ryder
August 2, 2007 at 9:26 AM
Inside the Red Mosque
http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2007/08/02/inside-the-red-mosque-lal-masjid-al-jazeera-englsih/
Abdullah
August 2, 2007 at 4:37 PM
I mean, Islamically, Abdul Rashid Ghazi had no right to oppose the leader of his nation in such a rebellious way–Islam teaches us to have patience when we fall under the leadership of tyrants in order to prevent anarchy
The Shaykh had every right to demand the application of Shariah and to oppose the government.
Theres a consensus among all scholars that the difference between Dar Ul Kufr and Dar ul Islam is the Shariah .
Musharaf has changed Pakistand from a land of Islam to a land of Kufr and you thing the Ulamaa should remain silent.
Not only this but Musharaf stabbed the Taliban in the back and kills them under orders from Washington.
And beside this his stabbing the Taliban in the back and killing them where ever he finds them under orders from Washington?
As the Alim Ibn Al Qayyim Rahimullah said,
Anyone having some knowledge about the revelation of Allah, the guidance of the Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, and the life of the companions would conclude that those who are pointed at today as the most pious people are in fact the least pious.
Indeed, what kind of piety is there in a person who witnesses Allah’s sanctities being violated, his religion abandoned, the Sunnah of His Messenger shunned, and yet remains still with a cold heart and a shut mouth’ Such a person is like a dumb Shaitan! In the same way the one who talks falsehood is a speaking Shaitan.
Abdullah
August 2, 2007 at 4:42 PM
Another issue of consensus is upon giving Aid to the disbelievers while they invade or occupy a muslim land.
Ibn Hazim Rahimullah says about this
“If a disbeliever conquers a Muslim country, then acknowledges their religion (Islam), but assumes authority over them, and then claims any other religion than Islam,
whoever lives with him, supports, or serves him in any way is a disbeliever, even if he claims to be a Muslim, as aforementioned.” Ibn Hazm, al-Muhalla’: Vol. 13/139-140
Amad
August 2, 2007 at 5:09 PM
What does the Ibn Hazm quote have anything to do with this? There is no occupation of Pakistan.
ibnmasood
August 2, 2007 at 6:16 PM
Abdullah, calm down.
You need to look towards the history of our most knowledgeable and noble scholars of the past. Abu Hanifa would never accept money from the government and refused a position of leadership because he did not want to entangle Islam with politics, and Imam Ahmad took the same position.
That being said, indeed shari’ah is something that we all would like in our Muslim governments, but there is not a single country in the world that is allowing the most knowledgeable and pious Muslims to lead. However, many governments, such as Pakistan, have a system in place that allows for people to rise into power and implement policy changes. Did Abdul Rashid Ghazi even attempt to go through the established political process before he took an entire school and its students hostage? And would any government in the world, Islamic or otherwise, allow any dissenters the chance to “show them [the government] up,” so to speak? If we are accusing Musharraf of being a tyrant, then we sure as heck can’t use tyrannical methods to reach a solution.
We should all be glad that Pakistan is not like many of these supposedly Muslim countries who go around and rip clothing off of our Muslim women or ban them from wearing proper hijab. We should also be grateful that Pakistan allows Islamic parties to exist in the government, and there is a free and open chance for an Islamic party to garner the support from the populous and actually win influence in the government until it is in control. Change takes time! You can’t just make demands and expect the government to jump on its head in a single evening, especially if you are dealing with supposed tyrants.
My point wasn’t that he spoke out–it was his modus operandi that I found fault with.
P.S. Be careful bro. Throwing the word kufr around is no light matter…
Nasir
August 5, 2007 at 8:55 AM
Assalamu Alaikum,
There’s a good documentary
about white phorsphorus and how it was used in siege on Fallujah.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8905191678365185391&q=duration%3Along+genre%3ADOCUMENTARY&total=31408&start=700&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=35
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Bangash
June 6, 2008 at 6:27 PM
The Lal Masjid folk were heavily armed criminals, they went to war with the state and died in that war. No need to feel sorry for them.
eyesha
June 25, 2008 at 8:52 AM
AOA,
Lalmasjid waloan per ye misra fit ata hai ….
“HUM NAY IS UMMAT K KAL PAR QURBAN APNA AAJ KIA………!!!!!!