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Ayan Hirsi Ali on the Colbert Report
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Umm Layth
March 18, 2007 at 3:01 AM
The weird thing with these people who apostate is that they tend to go to extremes.
anon
March 18, 2007 at 5:03 AM
“It is a completely different story to have this extreme level of arrogance in your approach to your relationship with Creator and Sustainer”
Okay, I hope this doesn’t sound like I agree with her or am defending her, but she declares herself to be an atheist. Meaning she doesn’t believe a creator, sustainer, or a God exists. I don’t think you can display arrogance to something you don’t believe exists. Wouldn’t you have a problem submitting to something someone or somebeing if you don’t think it exists to begin with? I personally think there’s a difference between disbelief/skepticism and and downright arrogance
Anyways, I think that all this publicity she gets both postive and extremely negative is what she, Manji, and others kind of like them probably want. Its all about marketing. Kind of like Ann Coultergeist who thrives on being hated. Hatred and controversy sell. So in effect, by continually commenting on everything she says we are giving her tons of publicity for free. Which I’m sure is the opposite of what 99.9999% of people here want I’m sure she’s quite happy with it though:)
Abdul-Quddus
March 18, 2007 at 5:22 AM
But don’t all atheists and agnostics have a problem submitting to Allaah? This Colbert interview with Ayaan wasn’t indepth enough. Therefore, it’s difficult to assess her reasons for leaving the deen. We’d have to read her book to honestly get her perspective. Ayaan says she travelled to Europe to escape an arranged marriage. She is a feminist that views the corpus of Islaam as misogynistic and, according to her other book, she “learned that God and His truth had been humanized.”
Her “extreme level of arrogance” differs from that of Iblees because she’s an atheist. To a certain degree, Iblees somewhat recognized the existence of Allaah. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, on the other hand, doesn’t subscribe to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic understanding of evil.
And in response to the previous comment, I’d like to point out that Ayaan and Irshad really share nothing in common.
anon
March 18, 2007 at 5:49 AM
Good point about Ayaan and Irshad sharing nothing in common Abdul. I was just generally lumping them together in the “really disliked by most muslims” category to kind of illustrate one of my points:)
Hassan
March 18, 2007 at 10:04 AM
From her interview, it seemed she do know there is God (not atheist), but she just refuse to submit. Anyway, Colbert sounded more reasonable than her.
ExEx Blogger
March 18, 2007 at 10:55 AM
Yes, Colbert sounded much more reasonable than her. I feel that some event in her life will force her to submit to any God that she wishes. But at the same time, the God she is submitting to is her arrogance, ego, whims, desires etc. From the way that I see, the book infidel is not just her critical view points on Islam but since Christianity is also about submission, she has joined the ranks of atheist philosophers that wish to destroy all religions. She is an infidel to all religions.
Umm Layth
March 18, 2007 at 2:47 PM
He sounded more reasonable, especially when he corrected her on the fact that the majority of Christians still believe in a hell and in submission.
I think these non-Muslims take these ‘ex-muslims’ as jokes sometimes because like I said above they tend to go to opposite extremes.
AnonyMouse
March 18, 2007 at 3:52 PM
Hmmmmm… I’m wondering whether to watch this clip or not… she annoys the heck out of me, for various reasons – amongst them, her inconsistency. For example, she says ‘we’ as though she’s still Muslims… and then she goes and says that she’s *not* a Muslim, etc. Also, her apparent lack of a good grasp on facts. A local newspaper had a profile on her and one of her books, and it was so full of rubbish that I ended up writing a letter to the editor… which, surprisingly enough, was published (albeit with the bit where I blasted the newspaper’s lack of objectivity cut out…).
Anon is right: All the publicity, positive from quite a few non-Muslims (especially the neocons!) and negative from most Muslims, just feeds their popularity and boosts the sale of their books…
…
All right, well, I just watched the clip. Nothing new, really…
Sharique
March 18, 2007 at 10:22 PM
People like Ayan and Manji (and also perhaps Taslima) should be secluded in Antarctica so that they can enjoy each other’s company. Even shaytan would never have to visit that place because of so much evil that will exist there (perhaps he may be ashamed of himself! ).
I wonder why only women apostates are highlighted by the western media and not males.
anon
March 18, 2007 at 11:07 PM
I am truly sick to death of all this harping on Ayaan, Manji, Nomani, and all the other “evil” apostates/lesbians/adulterers/blah blah blah. Aren’t there better things to discuss about the muslim community and affairs than how “evil” these women are? I can see plenty of more evil and terrible things going on in the muslim community today than this select group of people. I think its been fairly well established now that everyone who is muslim hates them and everyone who is not muslim loves them. And I’m really not quite sure what is up with all the stone throwing I’m continually reading not just here but on other blogs. I can state with 100% certainty that none of us here are completely sinless, blameless, and have never committed sometype of evil. Why can’t we just move on? Maybe everyone, including myself, should stop harping on other people sins and faults and focus more on our own.
And if you all care to know what initiated my little rant see Sharique’s comment above.
Bint Amina
March 18, 2007 at 11:08 PM
Allahu musta’aan.
‘Umar ibn al Khattab,(Radiallaahu ‘anhu), said, “There is no excuse for anyone going astray thinking that he is upon guidance. Nor for abandoning guidance thinking it to be misguidance, since the affairs have been made clear, the proof established and the excuse cut off.”
May Allah ta’ala grant us hidayah and understanding of this deen. Aameen.
As for individuals like these, leave them. Someone mentioned the publicity factor, which I’m sure none of us want to contribute to. Shall we give the microphone to all that have strange beliefs, going against the way of Allah ta’ala and His Messenger? Rather, the floor should be given to those whose words have weight, because with them is the truth, giving us reminders, and that which benefits.
Allahu ‘alam.
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July 29, 2010 at 3:33 PM
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anon
March 18, 2007 at 11:22 PM
And to round out my little rant, I got this from Bint Amina’s blog:
Let us heed the words of ‘Eesa ibn Maryaam (alayhi salaam), who said:
“Do not look at the people’s faults as if you are lords, but look at your own faults as if you are slaves, because people are of two types: afflicted and pardoned. So have mercy on the afflicted and thank Allaah for pardoning you and protecting you from it.”
I don’t know how to link but if you care to look at the whole post it is at: http://tawheedfirst.wordpress.com/2007/03/16/look-in-the-mirror/
*PS: sorry if my linking to your post bothered you Bint Amina. I’m not familiar with blogging etiquette, rules, and all that:)
abu ameerah
March 19, 2007 at 1:10 AM
I don’t know exactly what to make of this interview — at least it was short, alhamdulillah. Colbert’s interview with Ayaan reminds of an interview that Tavis Smiley (aka “Bob Johnson’s road kill”) did on PBS with Salman Rushdie a while ago.
In that interview, Smiley seems to be in great awe over the Rushdie. Much of the interview seemed to make Rushdie out to be some kind of victim in a noble and just cause against Islam.
Colbert, however, seemed a bit restrained and somewhat less enamored by “Miss Apostate” than most others in the media.
DrM
March 19, 2007 at 9:14 AM
Ayaan Hirsi Magan(her real name) does have a religion. $$$. I just need to point out that her entire story has been proven to be a sham. Look it up! Why do you think she left the Netherlands and came to the US to work for neocon terrorist AEI institute?
Come on people, put your thinking caps on!
ExEx Blogger
March 19, 2007 at 9:35 AM
Dear Anon
I feel that the bloggers at muslimmatters not trying to forget the other “evil” things that you mentioned. If they had mentioned those, someone could also say why mention those not these?! I think we take one issue at a time and see what it is.
Thanks
ExEx Blogger
March 19, 2007 at 9:35 AM
are not*
Ruth Nasrullah
March 19, 2007 at 10:42 AM
Asalaamu alaikum. As a long-time fan of Stephen Colbert, I have to say I was amazed to see him actually take on a guest and – without making a joke of it – directly question her beliefs. Kudos to him.
Umm Reem
March 19, 2007 at 11:04 AM
“I wonder why only women apostates are highlighted by the western media and not males.”
Easy…so they can propagate the so-called ‘muslim misogyny’.
Mujahideen Ryder
March 19, 2007 at 12:49 PM
Colbert was mad funny. He sent blessings upon Muhammad (saas) and he basically told the murtada she was stupid for not knowing anything about Christianity.
Ahmad AlFarsi
March 19, 2007 at 12:52 PM
I can’t help but mention that I felt his sending salaat on the Prophet (sall Allahu alayhi wa sallam) was a mockery on his part (it was accompanied by laughter from the audience and a smirk on his face), and I felt thoroughly upset and disgusted at that mockery of his. But he did mock Ms. Apostate as well, which was quite entertaining.
ibnmasood
March 19, 2007 at 1:04 PM
May Allah guide Colbert!
ibnmasood
March 19, 2007 at 1:05 PM
…and Ayaan too! Glory be to the one who has control over all things and wearies none over their maintenance.
Ahmad AlFarsi
March 19, 2007 at 2:57 PM
Assalaamu alaykum,
I wanted to mention something about a general vibe that is being expressed from the comments of this post that we should “not be so judgmental of others” in reference to the likes of Hirsi Ali.
While I am in complete agreement with the premise that we should be harsh on ourselves and not hypocritically judgmental of others… I feel that in general Ms. Hirsi Ali is one of many exceptions to the rule.
Perhaps recalling an aayah of the Qur’an will help inshaAllah:
Thus, I don’t think there is any need to be merciful to the likes of Hirsi Ali who is not only an apostate, but actively waging a war (of the pen and tounge) against Islam! Rather, we should follow this ayah and be severe against her and her kind.
I find it thoroughly interesting how on the one hand, it almost seems as though we are being told to have Husn udhDhunn for someone like Hirsi Ali, yet on the other hand, we find ourselves harshly critical of our fellow Muslims, who, while still having eemaan, may have committed some small injustice (which is small relative to the kufr and riddah of the likes of Hirsi Ali)… (in reference to some comments on the “Meet the Saudi-stones” post).
Ruth Nasrullah
March 20, 2007 at 10:35 AM
Asalaamu alaikum. Of interest – Irshad Manji is speaking here at the University of Houston tonight. The Chronicle did an advance interview:
“Death threats cannot stop Irshad Manji from speaking out in favor of reform within Islam. The journalist and author will speak tonight about her film Faith Without Fear at the University of Houston. The deeply personal film, which also features her fearful mother, is part of a PBS documentary series called America at a Crossroads, which will air in mid-April on PBS.
Manji, who lives in Toronto, is the author of The Trouble With Islam Today: A Muslim’s Call for Reform in Her Faith. Reform-minded Muslims, she says, condemn violence committed under the banner of Islam, ‘but we go a step further. We acknowledge how our religion is being manipulated to incite that violence.'” […]
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ent/4643313.html
DrM
March 20, 2007 at 11:22 AM
Manji charges around $7500 per “speaking engagement,” and I’d like to see these big bad death threats investigated. We know there are death threats and then there are “death threats” used by many an anti-Muslim media whore.
Josh Scholar
March 20, 2007 at 8:40 PM
Colbert was mad funny. He sent blessings upon Muhammad (saas) and he basically told the murtada she was stupid for not knowing anything about Christianity.
You do realize that Colbert’s act, his entire joke, his shtick (as it’s called) is that he mocks conservative/fundimentalist Christians by pretending to be one.? The entire studio audience understands that, even if you missed the obvious fact.
Rational Human
March 20, 2007 at 11:19 PM
Comments removed due to foul language. See our House Rules
Rational Human: If you want to participate in a civil discussion, then please act as your nick-name suggests. We will be glad to engage you when you brush up your manners of engaging in dialogue. -MuslimMatters
Josh: I don’t think anyone missed the ‘obvious’ fact. In fact if you read the first few words of what you quoted: “Colbert was mad funny”. Obviously we ‘get it’. And as far as your comments on your friend’s blog re: the commentators, you should read the “About” and note that most of the staff are actually either American converts or born/raised in America. Thank you for being civil though. -Amad
Amad
March 21, 2007 at 12:09 AM
Seems like we have a lot of apostate supporters for the charlatan liar Hirsi (see how she is being exposed here, and her story unravelling). Apparently, all 5 of them keep a pretty tight circle.
Interestingly, I find a gem (the AlMaghrib type!) in this apostate circle: Isn’t it a testimony to Islam itself that apostates are a ‘rare breed’? That you’ll find only a handful of them among the 1.2 billion+ Muslims? Despite all the world’s treasures that have been opened up for them? DESPITE all the negative media, the propaganda and tons of evangelical $$?
On the other hand, “Christian apostates” are swarming in all corners… those who are coming to Islam are so ‘common’ (no offense to my revert brothers and sisters :) ) that we don’t even give it a second-thought. I mean right on this blog, we have 2 out of 5 staff writers as converts from Christianity. SubhanAllah, only a true religion of God could stand up to everything that Muslims are subjected to, and still have hoards of people running to it.
If “the few, the arrogant, the apostates” (and I imply arrogance in their denial of the Creator) cannot see this simple truth, then truly they are “deaf, dumb, and blind” (Quran 2:18)
Pingback: Ayaan Hirsi Ali on The Colbert Report « Basharee Murtadd
Josh Scholar
March 21, 2007 at 1:33 AM
Interestingly, I find a gem (the AlMaghrib type!) in this apostate circle: Isn’t it a testimony to Islam itself that apostates are a ‘rare breed’?
I would avoid that arguement because, because the more obvious interpretation just jumps out at you. You know what I mean?
Josh Scholar
March 21, 2007 at 1:40 AM
And sorry if I misunderstood. But I thought that the poster who said that Colbert was funny might have missed the point that Colbert isn’t trying to represent Christianity fairly, he’s trying to mock more extreme Christians. As such, you can’t take what he says about Christianity at face value.
I think that even the Catholic Church has basically gotten rid of Hell. They now claim that hell or damnation just means a lack of God’s presence and blessing, whatever that is.
By the way, I’m not a Christian… I’m just pointing out context.
Amad
March 21, 2007 at 7:58 PM
Josh, sorry for being a little ‘sharp’ in my previous comment to you. I was kind of replying to your comment here so perhaps some may be wondering where I was coming from.
As far as your comment, “I would avoid that argument [re: Islam’s resilience in light of attacks on it] because, because the more obvious interpretation just jumps out at you [i.e. people don’t convert because of fear]. You know what I mean?”
To be honest, this is complete and utter baloney. First of all, let’s set something straight– Isaac isn’t an apostate. After reading up on him today, it seems that he was an Ahmadi; Ahmadis are already not Muslims. You can’t apostate from what you never were.
Secondly, millions of Muslims live in the West, with full rights to become whatever they choose. Even if I were to accept, for the sake of argument, that it would be difficult to convert in Muslim countries (though evangelists seem to be working quite freely in many of them) , that is not the case in the West. In fact, apostates seem to get a lot of support, esp. financial (as in the case of Isaac who also got his residency privileges in Canada). Many apostates have made a living out of being one. As far as family pressures, social pressures, don’t you think Christian reverts face that living in the West? Ask any of them and perhaps you will feel differently.
Muslims don’t convert because the message is plain, simple and beautiful. Its monotheism is unmatched, and its followers recognize that fact. Most Christian scholars recognize this aspect about Islam, and there is also some envy as to why this doesn’t happen with other religions. I think sometimes we just need to admit certain things instead of trying to mask it with subjective and self-serving arguments.
Thank you again Josh, for the civil discourse.
Josh Scholar
March 21, 2007 at 11:17 PM
I think you’re missing the more subtle point that the same culture which made conversion a capital offense also makes it very hard, socially, and dangerous in various ways, to convert no.
No matter where you live, west or east, if you convert you still have to deal with your family’s reaction, your friends’ reactions etc.
Also, I think everything you said about Isaac was completely unfair.
No matter whether you consider him a Muslim or not, his own people consider themselves Muslims and have, no doubt, the same cultural problems as other Muslims, including their mistreatment of what they consider apostates. In any case his own country, Pakistan, does or did consider Ahmadis to be a sort of Muslim at least some of the time, so he still has to deal with Pakistan’s laws and culture if he goes back.
That, because of attitudes like yours, he risks being treated as a having been born a heretic hardly improves his situation.
You make it sound like you’re being generous by saying that he isn’t an apostate. I can’t see it that way.
And second of all, the only financial help Isaac got, as far as I can tell, was a few small donations that barely covered his laywers fee for his hearing (a mere $2000). I know for a fact that he didn’t have all that wide support because I followed the blog traffic about him on technorati. He got a link from a large blog (that scrolled off the main page in the same day) and not much traffic after that.
By the way, I did send him a very (very) small contribution (I was completely broke at the time, myself).
Many apostates have made a living out of being one.
I really am sick of Muslims who always start smearing shit on people when they can’t think of any other way to defend their hostility.
I’m sorry, but I do not, and will never buy the implication that not being a Muslim equals being corrupt. That sort of thinking is just hate mongering.
As far as family pressures, social pressures, don’t you think Christian reverts face that living in the West? Ask any of them and perhaps you will feel differently.
People wouldn’t be reacting to ex-Muslims stories the way they do if there was any comparison. We’re shocked, really, because we don’t act that way. Not in this day and age.
Josh Scholar
March 21, 2007 at 11:36 PM
By the way, I forgot, in my last response to point out that my understanding is that your statement “that Isaac was never a Muslim” actually puts his family in at least as bad a position as he would have been as an apostate.
Aren’t you implying that they are heretics who have perverted Islam? And if so, isn’t it supposed to be your duty to go to war to convert them by the sword – or kill them?
Takfiring his entire family and community is certainly much more brutal and bloodthirsty than doing it to that single individual!
Amad
March 22, 2007 at 7:18 AM
Josh, I would remind you take care of your language here. I only a have a few points in reply to your rant:
a) No need to generalize. I said “many” apostates have made a living out of it, not “all”.
b) Josh: “No matter where you live, west or east, if you convert you still have to deal with your family’s reaction, your friends’ reactions etc.”. Yes, absolutely, and that applies to all converts from any religion.
c) The reason why many Muslims hold contempt for these apostates are the attempts by many apostates at maligning Islam. The people who are really hostile are the apostates (towards Muslims), much more than the reverse. Do you see Christian reverts (to Islam) go out and start attacking Christians and the Bible, except in an academic way? Generally speaking, you don’t. Muslims are committed to their faith and if the apostates leave us alone, I am sure we would leave them alone as well (of course no allowance for any physical violence).
d) Many Ahmadis live all over the Muslim world. My family in Pakistan has family friends among them. They are doing just fine. And saying that they are subjected to violence is utter nonsense (I am sure exceptions exist just like Muslims in the West are subject to hate-crimes).
Finally, “Aren’t you implying that they are heretics who have perverted Islam? And if so, isn’t it supposed to be your duty to go to war to convert them by the sword – or kill them?”
The answer is no. Ahmadis are not Muslim-heretics, they are just not Muslims, simple as that, just like Christians, Jews, Hindus or others. If it was the ‘duty’ of Muslims to kill non-Muslims, then there wouldn’t be any left in Islamic countries.
This tangent to the topic is now closed as you have degraded this into stereotypical Islam-bashing. You can continue your discussions with your ‘apostate-wannabe’ friend. You are free to contribute positively to any other discussion.
thanks.
Josh Scholar
March 22, 2007 at 1:29 PM
I thought heretics were in a different category from simple infidels.
Anyway:
The reason why many Muslims hold contempt for these apostates are the attempts by many apostates at maligning Islam. The people who are really hostile are the apostates (towards Muslims), much more than the reverse. Do you see Christian reverts (to Islam) go out and start attacking Christians and the Bible, except in an academic way? Generally speaking, you don’t. Muslims are committed to their faith and if the apostates leave us alone, I am sure we would leave them alone as well (of course no allowance for any physical violence).
Yes of course many former Christians are very bitter and attack that religion, though usually only former conservative Christians have that problem. More liberal versions of religions have much less dogma and much less hostility toward outsiders, so there’s very little to attack.
Really, I’m surprised that you think that there aren’t so many. There are many, many people who attack Christianity with incredible bitterness, or at least complete contempt. And there are many who attack religion without being specific to religion.
This is one of the reasons that people are so bothered by Islams’ ban on criticism, because we fought hard, step by step for that right. Each century, each decade we’ve gained more freedom to attack religion, until finally, there are no restrictions on that sort of speech at all. And now such a freedom is anything but obscure. Look up the comedian Lenny Bruce if you want an example of someone who fought the last few steps of the fight to mock religion in public.
Anyway, to some extent you have cause and effect confused. Some of the hostility that former Muslims have comes precisely from the fact that Islam has declared war on them. If you make a man your enemy, don’t be surprised if he acts like one.
I guess its the classic question of who came first: the chicken and the egg. Of course, we believe that Allah created the chicken, so we have kind of solved that one :) The apostates are free to criticize Muslims in the West, and when money is involved, which is the case in many cases, then they should be prepared to accept criticism in return. On this final note, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Thank you for the interesting discussion. -Amad
Josh Scholar
March 22, 2007 at 1:34 PM
Along the lines of attacking very liberal religion. I remember a few jokes about Unitarians (a group that tries to combine all religions).
Utah Philips tells these:
“I had to move out of town. Damn Unitarians burned a question mark on my lawn”
“I worked at a Unitarian summer camp. We sang songs like “‘We would rather not be moved.'”
“We had a charity drive: send a poor Unitarian child to camp, if you can find one”
Hamdi
May 25, 2007 at 3:09 PM
I know this post is kind of old, but just the other day it sort of dawned on me that Ayan Hirsi Ali is the Muslim equivalent of Israel Shahak. You can read up on him here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Shahak
Ahmed
April 28, 2010 at 9:35 AM
Can we shut off the sun by our speech ? no muhammed rasuululah . salalaahu calayhi wasalam