History and Seerah
The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid – Part II of III
It is unanimously agreed upon, by historians, legal specialists and theologians of all groups, that the Prophet 
himself never commanded his followers to celebrate his birthday, nor was this practice known for the first few centuries of Islam. Therefore, the question arises as to how this practice was instituted and who were the first group to think of the idea of celebrating the birthday of the Prophet .
The Origin of the Mawlid
The first mention ever made of the mawlid celebrations in any historical work comes in the writings of Jamāl al-Dīn Ibn al-Ma’mūn, who died 587 AH/1192 CE. His father was the Grand Vizier for the Fatimid Caliph al-Amir (ruled 494-524 AH/1101-1130 CE). Although the work of Ibn al-Ma’mūn is now lost, many parts of it were quoted by later scholars, in particular the most famous medieval historian of Egypt, al-Maqrīzi (d. 845/1442) in his monumental Mawā’īẓ al-i’tibār fī khiṭaṭ Miṣr wa-l-amṣār (shortened to the Khiṭaṭ). Al-Maqrīzi’s book is the standard source of information for Fatimid and early Mamlūk Egypt. What makes this work stand out above many others is not only its comprehensiveness, but also the fact that al-Maqrīzī quotes from many earlier references that are now lost, and also takes great care to cite his source, a practice very rare for the time.
Keep supporting MuslimMatters for the sake of Allah
Alhamdulillah, we're at over 850 supporters. Help us get to 900 supporters this month. All it takes is a small gift from a reader like you to keep us going, for just $2 / month.
The Prophet (SAW) has taught us the best of deeds are those that done consistently, even if they are small. Click here to support MuslimMatters with a monthly donation of $2 per month. Set it and collect blessings from Allah (swt) for the khayr you're supporting without thinking about it.
Al-Maqrīzī relies upon the work of Ibn al-Ma’mūn for information regarding the social, political and religious policies of the Fatimids during the early part of the sixth century, which was the period that Ibn al-Ma’mūn’s father worked for the Fatimid Caliph. Due to the high position that his father enjoyed, Ibn al-Ma’mūn provided many details that outside historians could not possibly have been privy to.
Before proceeding, it is important to point out some facts regarding the Fatimid dynasty. This dynasty had established itself as a rival dynasty to the Abbasids in Baghdad. They had conquered Egypt in 358 AH/969 CE, and established the modern city of Cairo. They claimed descent from the Family of the Prophet (a claim that all others deemed to be fabricated), and followed the Sevener Branch of Shi’ite Islam, also known as ‘Ismailism’. Their beliefs and customs were so different from other branches of Islam that all Sunnis and even many other non-Ismaili Shi’ite groups deemed them outside the fold of the religion. The Ismailis had reinterpreted the five pillars of Islam to such a level that they would not conform to the regular rituals that other Muslims are accustomed to (such as the five daily prayers). The intellectual (and at times even biological) descendants of the Fatimid caliphs in our times are many. In particular, the Ismaili Aga Khan Imams and the Bohri Imams both trace their direct lineage to the Fatimid caliphs, and the group known as the Druze also are an offshoot of the Fatimid dynasty. It was this dynasty that first initiated the celebration of the mawlid.
To return to our topic, Al-Maqrizi, in his Khiṭaṭ, quotes Ibn al-Ma’mūn as follows, writing about the events of the year 517 A.H.:
Next, the month of Rabī’ al-Awwal arrived, and we shall begin [the events of this month] by mentioning the thing for which it has become famous, namely, the birthday of the Master of the first and last, Muhammad, on the thirteen [sic.] day. And by way of charity, the Caliph presented 6000 dirhams from the fund of najāwa [an Ismailite tithe], and from the dar al-fitra he presented 40 dishes of pastry, and from the chambers of the trustees and caretakers of the mausoleums that lie between the Hill and Qarafa, where the Al al-Bayt lie, he gave sugar, almonds, honey, and sesame oil [as a gift] to each mausoleum. And [his Vizier] took charge of distributing 400 pounds (ratl) of sweets, and 1000 pounds of bread.
The wording of the paragraph clearly suggests that the mawlid was a clearly established practiced by this time.
Another early source that mentions the mawlid is the work of Ibn al-Ṭuwayr (d. 617/1220), in his work Nuzhat al-Muqlatayn fī Akhbārt al-Dawlatayn. Ibn al-Ṭuwayr worked as a secretary for the Fatimid dynasty, and witnessed the change of power from the Fatimids to the Ayyubids, at the hand of Salaḥ al-Dīn al-Ayyūbi, which occurred 567/1071. His skills were so appreciated that he ended up working for the government of Ṣalāh al-Dīn as well. Ibn al-Ṭuwayr also describes the pageantry and pomp associated with the mawlid. He describes in detail [see: Nuzhat, p. 217-219] the large amounts of foods that were distributed on this day, especially around the famous mausoleums of Cairo (some of which would have been considered by the Fatimids as being those of their Imams). The focus of the pageantry, of course, was the palace of the Caliph, and only the elite would get to attend. The celebrations of the day worked their way up to the appearance of the Caliph (who was the living Imam for the Ismailites) from a palace window, his face covered in a turban. He himself would not deign to speak – rather, his private attendants would signal to the audience that the Caliph had returned their greetings and seen their love for him. From the courtyard pavilion various reciters and preachers would address the audience, finally culminating in the address of the khatib of the Azhar Masjid (which of course, at that time, was the epitome of Ismaili academics).
The mawlid was not the only celebration that was sponsored by the Fatimids. Al-Maqrīzi, in his Khiṭaṭ [vol. 1, p. 490], has an entire section dedicated to Fatimid holidays. He writes, under a chapter heading entitled, “The mentioning of the days that the Fatimid Caliphs took as celebrations and festivals throughout the year, upon which the situation of the people would be improved and their benefits increased,”
The Fatimid Caliphs had, throughout the year, a number of festivals and celebrations. These were: 1. New Year’s Eve, 2. Beginning of the year celebrations, 3. The Day of ‘Āshūrā’, 4. The birthday of the Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam, 5. The birthday of ‘Alī, 6. The birthday of al-Ḥasan, 7. The birthday of al-Husayn, 8. The birthday of Fāṭima al-Zahrā’, 9. The birthday of the current Caliph, 10. The first day of Rajab, 11. The fifteenth day of Rajab, 12. The first day of Sha’bān, 13. The fifteenth day of Sha’bān, 14. The festival of Ramaḍān, 15. the first day of Ramaḍān, 16. The middle of Ramaḍān, 17. The end of Ramaḍān, 18. The Night of the Khatm, 19. The Day of Eid al-Fitr, 20. The Day of Eid of Sacrifice, 21. The Day of Eid al-Ghadīr, 22. The ‘Cloth of Winter’, 23. The ‘Cloth of Summer’, 24. The Day of the ‘Conquest of the Peninsula’, 25. The Day of Nawrūz [Persian festival], 26. The Day of Veneration [Christian], 27. Christmas [Christian], 28 Lent [Christian]
As can be seen, the Fatimids loved their celebrations! The reason why they had so many celebrations is obvious, and is hinted at by al-Maqrīzi in his title. As the main rival to the ‘Abbāsid dynasty, the Fatimids were desperate to try to legitimize their rule in the eyes of the masses, and one of the ways to do so was to shower them with gifts on these days, and to provide an outlet for them to be merry and enjoy. Al-Maqrīzi mentions in detail the types of gifts that would be showered on the people on each of these days, sometimes exotic dishes of meat and bread, most of the time pastries and sweets, and even (on the ‘Cloth’ days) special types of clothes. Anyone who has been to Cairo can attest to the pomp of Fatimid structures, but it wasn’t only through architecture that the Fatimids wished to prove their superiority over the Abbasids.
Another thing to note is that there are many pagan festivals listed as well, for the Zoroastrian and Christian citizens. All of this was done to appease these minorities and prevent them from rebelling against the stage.
A number of factors need to be discussed here.
1) From the above, it appears that the Faṭimids instituted a number of key yearly celebrations, all of which involved much pomp and pageantry. The primary celebrations were the mawlids of the Prophet and Imams, and also the celebration of the day of Ghadīr Khumm (the day that Shi’ites of all stripes believe the Prophet designated ‘Alī b. Abī Ṭālib to be the heir apparent). As mentioned earlier, the primary purpose of so much pageantry was to ingratiate themselves with the masses. Such public celebrations would have been anticipated as public holidays, and as days to revel and enjoy good food and sweets, compliments of the government.
2) We can also venture a rough guess regarding the era that the mawlid was introduced. Without any other sources, it is impossible to reconstruct a precise date on which the Faṭimids initiated the mawlid.[1] However, recall that al-Maqrizī’s history (the Khiṭat) is merely a compilation of numerous histories that are now missing. Many of these histories, such as those of Ibn al-Ma’mūn and Ibn Ṭuwayr, were written by eyewitnesses. Modern scholars have analyzed the sources of al-Maqrīzi’s history, and shown that for each era, al-Maqrizī relied on specific authors. For events of the third, fourth and fifth centuries, al-Maqrizī took from authors of other works; it was only for events of the sixth century that he quoted Ibn al-Ma’mūn.[2] Therefore, since the first suggestion of the mawlid occurs in the chronicles of Ibn al-Ma’mūn, we can safely venture the hypothesis that the mawlid was first celebrated around the turn of the sixth hijrī century.
3) All of the mawlids introduced by the Fatimids centered around the Family of the Prophet, except for the mawlid of the Prophet himself. The Shi’ite nature of the Fatimid Dynasty, along with the other celebrations that were practiced, makes it quite clear that the entire concept of celebrating birthdays was a Shi’īte one aimed at exalting the status of the Imams. In fact, these source books mention that on the days of these other mawlids, most of the ceremonies took place around the mausoleums and graves of the Fatimids, and it was at these places where much of the food was distributed. Hence, the Fatimids clearly wished to promote the cult of the Imams and ‘Ahl al-Bayt’, and aggrandize their religious figures. When the Fatimid dynasty collapsed, the other mawlids were simply forgotten, as they held no significance for Sunnis, but the mawlid of the Prophet continued. In other words, the mawlid was originally an Isma’ili Shi’ite festival, even though eventually it lost the tarnish of its Shi’ite origins.
4) The earliest reference (that of Ibn al-Ma’mūn) specifically states that the mawlid was celebrated on the 13th of Rabi’ al-Awwal. Scholars have said that this is either an error (and what proves this is that the later Ibn al-Ṭuwayr correctly writes that it was celebrated on the 12th of Rabī’ al-Awwal), or that it was initially instituted on the 13th, but within a generation was changed to the 12th. In either case, by the middle of the sixth century, the mawlid was an official holiday in Fatimid Egypt.
The question then arises: how did the mawlid spread to Sunni lands, and who was the first to introduce it to lands East and West of Fatimid Egypt? That shall be the topic of the third and final part to this article, insha Allah.
[1] The modern Egyptian author Hasan al-Sandubi, in the only monograph in Arabic on the subject, suggests that th Fatimid Caliph al-Mu’izz was the first to initiate this celebration, but there is absolutely no evidence that he brings to back this claim. Al-Mu’izz ruled from 341 to 365 A.H.
[2] See the editor’s introduction to Nuzhat al-Muqlatayn, p. 3, where he lists al-Maqrizī’s sources for every era.
Keep supporting MuslimMatters for the sake of Allah
Alhamdulillah, we're at over 850 supporters. Help us get to 900 supporters this month. All it takes is a small gift from a reader like you to keep us going, for just $2 / month.
The Prophet (SAW) has taught us the best of deeds are those that done consistently, even if they are small. Click here to support MuslimMatters with a monthly donation of $2 per month. Set it and collect blessings from Allah (swt) for the khayr you're supporting without thinking about it.
[Podcast] How To Free A Jinn & Other Questions | Ustadha Raidah Shah Idil
Study Classical Texts the Traditional Way | Session 3
Processing Spiritual Abuse In Islam: A Comprehensive Guide For Individuals, Communities, And Organizations
Family Troubles Of The Prophets: A MuslimMatters Series – [Part I] Sibling Rivalries Gone Wild
Dear Resilient Soul… – A Message To Survivors Of Childhood Sexual Trauma
MuslimMatters Official Statement On Wisam Sharieff
Statement Against Abuse: The Female Scholars Network
Sami Hamdi: “Muslims Must Abandon Harris” | Transcript and Summary
Keeping Our Children Safe From Predators: A Guide For Parents
From The Chaplain’s Desk – Reap The Rewards Of Being Mindful Of Allah
Study Classical Texts The Traditional Way [Session 1] | Sh. Yaser Birjas
Sami Hamdi: “Muslims Must Abandon Harris” | Transcript and Summary
IOK Ramadan: The Importance of Spiritual Purification | Keys To The Divine Compass [Ep30]
IOK Ramadan: The Power of Prayer | Keys To The Divine Compass [Ep29]
IOK Ramadan: The Weight of the Qur’an | Keys To The Divine Compass [Ep28]
MuslimMatters NewsLetter in Your Inbox
Sign up below to get started
-
Announcements2 weeks agoMuslimMatters Official Statement On Wisam Sharieff
-
featured1 month ago
The Role Of Kurds In The Dissemination Of Islamic Knowledge In The Malay Archipelago
-
#Current Affairs1 month ago
Why Mehdi Hasan’s “Lesser Of Two Evils” Election Advice Is Wrong
-
#Society2 weeks ago
Statement Against Abuse: The Female Scholars Network
ibnmasood
March 13, 2009 at 11:59 AM
let’s not forget that respecting and loving ahl al-bayt is part of mainstream islam. just because one group might go a bit astray in their love does not mean we should shy away from it in the least.
Firas
February 14, 2019 at 9:08 AM
WOW. You love the Prophet more than his companions, who had much more piety than us, which leads you to do an action that they NEVER did?
The milad(celebrating birthday of prophet mohammad(pbuh)) was first introduced by the Shee’ah Faatimids after the three best centuries of Islam. The next person to do this after them and re-introduce it Was King Al-Mudhaffar Abu Sa‘eed Kawkaboori, the king of Irbil, at the end of the sixth century or the beginning of the seventh century AH, as was mentioned by the historians such as Ibn Khalkaan, and others.
Abu Shaamah said:
“The first person to do that in Mosul was Shaykh ‘Umar Ibn Muhammad Al-Malaa, one of the well-known righteous people. Then the ruler of Irbil and others followed his example.”
Ibn Katheer, said in his biography of Abu Sa’eed Kazkaboori:
“He used to observe the Mawlid in Rabee’ Al-Awwal and hold a huge celebration on that occasion… some of those who were present at the feast of Al-Muzaffar on some occasions of the Mawlid said that he used to offer in the feast five thousand grilled heads of sheep, ten thousand chickens and one hundred thousand large dishes, and thirty trays of sweets… he would let the Sufis sing from Dhuhr until Fajr, and he himself would dance with them.”
Thus it is not the beloved prophet nor are the rightly guided khalifahs who endorsed eid milad-un-nabi (celebrating birth day of prophet) in to Islam. It is above mentioned persons who did so. And our beloved prophet has guided us regarding these newly invented things in islam:
Narrated by Ali ibn AbuTalib That the Prophet of Allah (saws) said: “If anyone introduces an innovation (in religion), he will be responsible for it. If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in religion), he is cursed by Allah, by His Angels, and by all the people.” Sunan of Abu-Dawood [Hadith 4515]
Narrated by Jabir ibn Abdullah That the Prophet of Allah (saws) said in a sermon: “The best speech is that which is embodied in the Book of Allah, the Al Quran; and the best guidance is the guidance given by me, Mohamed (saws). The most evil affairs are the innovations, and every innovation is an error.” Sahih Muslim [ 1885]
Note here what the blessed prophet(pbuh) is saying “ EVERY INNOVATION IS AN ERROR”, thus includes every innovation, no matter how people categories them.
Aishah narrated that: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “Whoever innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e. Islam) that is not part of it, will have it rejected.” (Sahih) ibn majah [Vol. 1, Book 1, Hadith 14]
Thus a believer should fear Allah, and avoid all these celebrations which have no base in Islam. There is absolutely no record, that our beloved prophet ever celebrated birthday of any of the individual, nor did any of the companion ever did so.
S
March 13, 2009 at 12:00 PM
AssalamuAlaykum ShaykhYasir,
Taking about history of Mawlid, i knew for sometime that Ibn Kathir(Student of Shaykh Ibn Taymiyya) mentioned on his Tarikh:
Hafiz Ibn Kathir wrote that: “There was once a King, Abu Sa’id Malik Muzaffar – a man of good deeds.In his kingdom, wherever he saw a lack of water, he would build a well. He also established many Islamic study centres. Every year, he would spend half a million dinars on hosting a gathering of his people to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) [Ta’rikh Ibn Kathir, vol. 13, ‘Story of King Abu Sa’id’]
Hafiz Ibn Kathir states that in the 5th Century after hijra (AH), a king named Malik Shah also celebrated it with a gathering [Ta’rikh Ibn Kathir, ‘Biography of Malik Shah’]
Can you please let us know around what time was King Abu Sa’id Malik Muzaffar around ?
Shukran.
AsimG
March 13, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Asalaamu Alaykum,
I LOVE history pieces, insha’Allah MM can start posting more of these (even though they take a lot of work).
With the understanding that this is a ismaili conceived holiday, why are there so many scholars (a friend mentioned majority of scholars) support the celebration?
Most importantly, what is the correct opinion on the mawlid? Is it straight up bid’ah or is it something where the disagreement between the scholars is legitimate?
And what are all these other mawlids going on in India? Are they associated with Fatimid imams or are we having mawlids for the saints? Every month there seems to be one and my parents explained it is mostly an excuse for the Muslims to feed the poor.
MUA
March 13, 2009 at 3:02 PM
S – I’m reposting this response from the first article -concerning your statement: “Since they understand the scholars are more qualified than them, have vast scope of reference and they are carrying forward the great legacy of scholarship of 1000+ years, an unbroken chain going back to Prophet Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam. If the great scholars who are carrying forward this legacy to this day, permit a certain act(like Mawlid) and they very well know the current times, the story just ends here.”
This is not accurate at all nor true. As far as the unbroken chain, the burden of proof is on you to show that there exists unbroken chains in regards to ilm outside of ilm al-hadith. I know for a a fact that for example, the Naqshabandi tariqa (mujadidi & haqqani branches included) have a broken chain at the very begining of their silsila – study it closely from Jafar as-Sadiq to Bistami to Kharqani. Huge gaps. In fact, in order to make it “unbroken” they invented the concept of “uwaysi silsila” in which the dead sh. will transmit to the living. This would never be permittied in ilm ul hadith studies. Imam Shatibi also scrutinized the silsilat of several of those who claimed to have received knowledge in an unbroken manner all the way to the Prophet saaws (actually to Allah). I even brought this to the attention of one of their murids who didn’t do his due diligence before buying into the idea that you’re peddling. And he took it to his sh. who in front of a public gathering used it as a credential for his knowledge (and soem how an irrefutable proof just like you’re doing), and when he was asked my question in private he said, “well if the light bulb is so bright who cares where the electrcity is coming from.” That’s so disengenous. Also many researchers who have studied silsilat of the various tariqat have noted that not a single one is “unbroken.” It’s sickening that people use this as a credential for their ilm. LIkewise, as for ijaza, this is a huge field on pedagogy that needs to be studied closes. But remember that even the classical and medieval scholars who received ijazat to transmit and/or teach knowledge or books from their shuyukh never used this “unbroken chain” argument to stymie any criticism of their ijtihad and opinions. Rather they had to prove their ijtihad was correct based on legal devices, hermenutics, evidence, and reasoning. None of them said this knowledge goes back all the way to the Prophet saaws, they were much more humble and said this is the best we can do and we think it is rigth with the possibility of being wrong. Their approach was exoteric not esoteric.
In light of this your argument of “do it yourself Islam” falls apart too. Even scholars who received ijaza from their shuyukh differed in areas of knowledge, the ijaza did not eliminate that fact. So please don’t make it seem that the reason why there are differences is because you have some people who studied from books of ahadith and athar. Btw, those who did had usool too, they didn’t just haphazardly come up with fatawa. In fact, there is a hadith of the Prophet in Fath al-Bari that there will be people who get knowledge from waraqat and they will have a high level of Iman equal to the early generations.
S
March 13, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Br. Mua,
Shukran. Since you posted the only a snippet from the original post/comment in other thread, i’m posting my original post in entirety so its less confusing.
Also, given below is my response to your comments on my post:
Wa Billahi Tawfiq:
WaSalamuAlaykum.
Original post – Part of which was copied by Br. MUA
——————————————————————–
Shukran Br. Abu Abdurrahman for the balanced approach to this issue, may Allah(SubhanaHu Wa Ta’la) reward you. If you follow the post above in chronological order, you would see that the world “Ahl al bidah” was being used synonymously for people celebrating mawlid and were being compared to rawafidh!! People who posted the opinions of scholars would not have posted those opinions, If your post had come condemning such posts in the first place. I give you benefit of doubt and not consider you biased.
Btw, about the opinions of scholars ya akhi, the difference is in principle.
The people who follow a madhab/school of rightly guided imams and follow scholars who have carried their school forward at different points in history and amended based on the situations of their times, like Imam Nawawi, Imam Rafii, Imam Ibn Hajar Haythami, Imam Ramli, etc for Shafii school, the opinion of the scholar is final for such people. Since they understand the scholars are more qualified than them, have vast scope of reference and they are carrying forward the great legacy of scholarship of 1000+ years, an unbroken chain going back to Prophet Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam. If the great scholars who are carrying forward this legacy to this day, permit a certain act(like Mawlid) and they very well know the current times, the story just ends here. People’s heart are convinced that they are following our Prophet Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam in best possible manner. The bottomline is, most people take our religion not from books but sitting at the feet of scholars carrying forward the legacy of 1000+ years of scholarship and unbroken chain going back to our Prophet and Messenger Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam. Thats what i learned from my teachers.
For people, who are proponents of “Do it yourself islam” directly deriving ruling from the Athar of Sahaba and Sayings of our Prophet Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam after 1400 years or only following the opinion of minority scholars of this ummah who are far apart scattered in the history, the story is different for them. They will certainly come up with different opinions opposing the scholarship of 1000+ years.
I do not want to get into debate on following a madhab and issue of not following one. I would suggest a book that recently got published translated in English called Al-La Madhhabiyya: by Shaykh Dr. Muhammad Sa`id Ramadan al-Buti(Scholar of eminence who taught at Al-Azhar University in 1960s).
http://www.islamopedia.co.uk/shop/article_ASunniPubs%2520001/Al-La-Madhabiyya—Abandoning-the-Madhabs.html?shop_param=cid%3D1%26aid%3DASunniPubs%2520001%26
I consider all the brothers whether they follow mawlid or not, follow madhab or not, my brother and i hope Allah(SubhanaHu Wa Ta’la) will forgive all of us for our shortcomings and make us enter jannah together.
————————————————————————————————————————————————–
Response to Br. MUA,
Br. MUA,
You are going too far akhi, i never mentioned anything about Tariqa. Perhaps you imagined me as one of the whirling devishes, didn’t you :)?
Its no difficult task if you are a student of knowledge of any calibre to find, not just the regular scholars following one of the four schools but great luminaries who themselves were at the level of being mujtahids but still followed one of the four madhhabs, in every century since the time of those great Imams. Infact the reason why only four schools survived is because only the knowledge/principles of these schools was propogated in huge numbers to this day. There were other scholars who were considered mujtahid mutlaq like Imam al-Awzai, Imam Layth bin Saad(contemporary of imam Malik), Imam Tabari, etc their schools died down due to lack of transmission of their knowledge and principles in huge numbers. You don’t have to go too far, take example of Hanbali fiqh scholars, is it so difficult to find a more than a couple of scholars in each islamic century from the time of Imam Ahmad ? To name a few very famous Hanbali scolars:
Al-Khallal (d. 311)
Ghulam al-Khallal (d. 363)
Ibn Hamid (d. 403)
al-Qadhi Abu Ya’la (d. 458)
Abu al-Khattab (d. 510)
Abu Isma’il al-Harawi (d. 481)
Abul-Wafa ‘Ali ibn ‘Aqil (d. 488)
Abdul-Qadir Gilani (d. 561)
Ibn al-Jawzi (d. 597)
Ibn Qudama al-Maqdisi (d. 620)
Majd al-Din Ibn Taymiyah (d. 653)
Taqi al-Din Ibn Taymiyah (d. 728)
Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziya(d. 751)
and so on to this day.
Everyone of them followed Hanbali fiqh.
If we can so easily find these luminaries, its easy to see the great numbers of regular scholars who just followed them and trasmitted the knowledge to next generation.
The chain of knowledge from Imam Ahmad(RahimuHullah) to our Beloved Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) is not too long ya Akhi. Its so well known that i’m not even mentioning it.
So what makes us think that people who follow one of the four madahib, do not have a UNBROKEN chain in science of Fiqh ?
Same thing with other sciences like Tajweed, i know scholars whose chain of Ijazah in Tajweed goes back to our Prophet SallalahuAlayhi Wasallam.
Anyways, i did not get into this discussion. Please forgive me if i have said something wrong. Insha’Allah i’m going to end my postings on this thread here. And i want to remind myself and everyone, argumentation is not part of our deen and is bad Akhlaq to argue.
MUA
March 13, 2009 at 3:53 PM
Ya Shaykh S, yawm al jummah used to be designated for jadal by the fuqaha, so I’m not sure where you get the idea argumentation is not part of the deen. There several reports of argumentation between the Sahabah. Btw, by responding to my post, you got into the discussion.
As far as what you said abotu the production of mujtahideen i don’t debate what you said in your response. We’re in agreement as far as that is concerned. Naturally madrasas were setup to teach according to the knowledge of the founders and eponyms. And madhab Awzai and Layth didn’t survive because their students neglected them and didn’t appreciate their knowledge enough to continue it. But just realize stringing together ulema based on when they died does not prove your point. The question whether they actually met, whether one actually learned from the other, what knowledge was transmitted, and whether authorization was given and of what type are necessary areas to explore before one concludes a continous, unbroken transmission. Like i said, this area does require a closer look and research. But the fact is these ulema (the mujtahideen and fuqaha) never used the argument that “I have an unbroken chain going all the way back to the prophet, therefore my opinion is valid and correct.” This was your argument when you said, “If the great scholars who are carrying forward this legacy to this day, permit a certain act(like Mawlid) and they very well know the current times, the story just ends here.”
As far as tajweed is concerned, I have no issue with that. That’s well documented. In fiqh it is not. And again, when you mentioned that the reason why some scholars differed with those of your alleged 1000+ history of scholarship because they didn’t have this chain rather they studied by going to books of ahadith and athar (realize btw, that Ibn Taymiyya was accused of this), you’re wrong akhi. You can’t tell me that Imam ash-Shaybani, ABu Hanifah, Zufar, Qadi Abu Yusuf (who all met each other and learned from Imam Abu Hanifah) didn’t disagree on several issues. Forget about being from a different tabaqat, even in their own school, in their own generation they disagreed. Your analysis is just off. At the end none of them said, “well my knowledge is unbroken and it goes back to the Prophet” rather they exerted themselves exhaustively to find the correct opinion according to the usul they found to be the most correct. So let’s look at the act of commemorating/celebrating milad from the point of view that it is an opinion that needs to be studied and evaluated according to the correctness of the evidences and arguments, not because mawlid is valid because generally speakign scholars got their knowledge through an unbroken chain through the Prophet asws. And like Sh. Yasir mentioned in the very beginning of this article, the Prophet did not command anyone to celebrate his milad, and this has been agreed upon.
Abd- Allah
March 13, 2009 at 5:33 PM
Brother S, if all 4 madhabs have “unbroken chains” all the way back to the prophet sallalahu alyhi wasallam, then why do they have different rulings on many things? If they all have the same source, then shouldn’t they all have the same rulings on everything?
S
March 13, 2009 at 5:51 PM
Post pertinent to this thread as well..
Br. Abd Allah,
Your argument is nothing but a good example of sophistry my brother. Its more complicated than what you explain. You mean to say Ibn taymiyyah, Imam Nawawi, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, Imam Suyuti, etc who were not from the same time and age , errored together by their outright or silent acceptance of mawlid and suddenly in 13th century or 14th century it dawned upon someone to correct them !
We got to be a little less arrogant than that habibi.
You cannot be a Judge, Accuser and Executioner together at the same time.
This is the principle, someone who is accused is considered, innocent unless proven guilty. Thats how law works, accused is not considered guilty by default unless proven innocent. Have mercy on your brother ya akhi, pleasee, don’t be unjust to them.
If you accuse someone of going against th sunnah, you need to come up with a hadith which explicitly says its haram or makruh to celebrate the Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi wa Sallam)’ s birthday, specifically. If that was the case and if there existed a sahih hadith that its haram to celebrate the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi wa Sallam)’ s birthday and Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) had mentioned it explicitly, then i’m sure all the scholars mentioned above would not have kept quite and would have called it haram. Our Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) also said my ummah will not agree upon an error. So came the principle of Ijma(Consensus).
The mubah(permissible) action/means take the ruling of their end goals. If the action/means are mubah(not haram) and end goals one is trying to acheive with it is mustahabb or mandub, then the actions/means are considered mustahab/mandub. End goal here is effort to increase love of our Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam), rejoicing on his birth, etc. Thats what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah was mentioning up there, since he was a great A’lim and understood this basic principle.
For those who deny principle, please go ahead with whatever please you ya Akhi. I’m done. Wasalam
S
March 13, 2009 at 6:27 PM
Dear Br. MUA & Abd Allah,
Schools differed because sahaba differed on many things and they agreed with other’s ruling to be correct as well, in general. I’m not talking of fanatics in the history of madahib as well, who threw stones at others:). If we go into the history of how and why Imams differed we can easily understand why madahibs differed.
Difference of Imams would be good book to read by white thread publications.
I never said, the scholars boasted about having unbroken chain. But if at all someone can prove there is unbroken chain exists in the science of fiqh, going back to one of the founders of the school, its little more reliable than not having a chain back, right. Its also a great dawah to other religions and a plus point.
Perhaps you should buy and listen to this lecture tittled:
Unbroken Chain : The Importance of Isnad in Islam : Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi
Exactly about what we are talking about.
http://www.onlineislamicstore.com/a4744.html
We can talk after that. As some wise man said: Before having a discussion, we need to first agree upon definations of things, else a discussion cannot take place.
Also as someone said, do not raise your voice, improve your argument. Just scaring away other people by calling others deviant and posting a billal phillip website is just laughable.
MUA
March 13, 2009 at 6:49 PM
S: you’re doing exactly what you’re criticising others for – instead of posting a bilal phillips site, you’ve posted Mohammad Yaqoubis work. I’ve listened to several talks from murshids of tariqat, and they all fail to prove that their chain is connected without any break or problem back to the Prophet, and i’ve read Yaqoobi’s writings on the issue, they fail to address the criticisms that I and many others have raised. If you already have the wisdom on his argument, why don’t you go ahead an present it. If the problem is that we’re not defining things with consistency, then please point that out with real examples don’t just plug in Yaqoobi. Also, i noticed that you have conveniently skirted all the issues and criticisms i’ve raised in my posts. And like i had suspected, you’re not trying to defend the continuity of the hanbali madhahab, so please don’t try to disguise what you’re doing, obviously you’re making a case for the sufi tariqat. From the sound of it, you’ve never studied a single chain in depth.
Lastly, i didn’t want to do this, but now i think it’s appropriate – being a person of principle as you’ve said several times, i wanted to let you know that you said that argumentation is not part of the deen and it is bad akhlaq. So i would like to advise you, according to your own understanding, you’re doing something that is not part of the deen and show bad akhlaq.
S
March 13, 2009 at 7:22 PM
Did i accused, slandered, used bad adab/language with my muslim brothers i replied to in any of my posts? If just replying in civil manner is argumentation, then please forgive me. I’m sorry.
Did i say anything about Bilal Phillips unlike some who have posted in other threads calling others deviant and what not and asking people to keep away, etc etc. I just pointed out that we need to try to gain more knowledge and try to understand others point of view.
Also, why you keep bringing Sufi Tariqat again and again ? I never mentioned about that in any single post of mine except asking you why you assume i’m a whirling dervish :). Please read them again….
Anyways akhi, I agree i have very little knowledge and so you said it right and that point i agree on. So i will leave it at that. But don’t throw away something because of who is saying it, see what he is saying.
BTW, this is the first time i have posted on this muslim matters and it was nice to have a discussion with you, Allah(SubhanaHu wa Ta’la) is my witness. I love you and rest of the ummah for the sake of Allah(SubhaNaHu wa Ta’la). Hopefully i will hold on to myself and not post further.
MUA
March 13, 2009 at 8:12 PM
I don’t want to belabor this point, Akhi al-Karim [S]: What you did was insult people’s intelligence by making a claim and then failing to support it and clear up the issues and criticisms that were raised. You shouldn’t just expect people will accept your idea without having a cogent, coherent argument. We all want to follow the haq, but to get to the haq takes a grudging effort sometimes. One one hadn you said you think argumentation is not part of the deen and bad adab, and then on the other hand you said “do not raise your voice, improve your argument.” That is not consistent.
As for why i have mentioned sufi tariqat, akhi, again your argument is boiler plate language for the bros. in tariqat. Those who argue for an ijaza based educational system don’t say that they are dispensing knowledge that “goes back 1000+ years all the way to the Prophet.” Rather, as i mentioned i think the issue of ijaza needs to be studied more deeply, and it is not as simple as stringing names and dates of death. Aside from ilm al hadith and tajweed (thank you by the way for notifying me about my omission), the only other people who claim that their knowledge was taken directly from the Prophet through an unbroken chain were these sufi tariqat. And like i said when you analyze their chains, none of them are true. In fact, they don’t even pass the simple test of stringing names and death dates. So instead of taking that claim as a truism and then peddle it to people, I suggest you do your due dilligence and verify these claims. And i’ve said nothing abotu whirling dervishes, that’s your own concoction. Fact is you don’t have to be in to that stuff to make the claim you made. Again, i just want to remind you taht you have not answered the issues and criticisms of your argumetn, you skirted them all.
As for your knowledge, i didn’t say you have little knowledge, I said from the sounds of it you’ve never studied a single chain in depth. So let’s please represent each others opinions accurately. And you make it seem as if im not looking at what you’re saying, ya shaykh my whole argument is against your thesis.
I’ll conclude with Ghazzali’s quote in his Munqih: “If you attribute a doctrine to a person of whom the people think well and you provide proof that this doctrine actually issued from him, they will accept it, even if it is false; and if you trace a doctrine to a person of whom they think ill, they will reject it, even if it is true. Invariably, they rely on men in order to know the truth, rather than relying on the truth in order to know men.”
Abd- Allah
March 13, 2009 at 10:16 PM
Brother S, I’m not going to argue with you, because we can accuse each other back and forth without any evidence. Insha’Allah if we enter into Jannah by the mercy of Allah, then I will show you where I don’t agree with you there.
Brother MUA, you said “As far as tajweed is concerned, I have no issue with that. That’s well documented”, can you please mention the reference or source of where it is well documented that Tajweed goes back all the way to the prophet salla Allahu alyhi wasallam? Just so that I can increase my knowledge on the topic, because I have heard several opinions on Tajweed and have been wanting to learn more about the issue for a while now.
ALGEBRA
March 14, 2009 at 12:46 AM
Aslamu-alaikum:
I enjoyed reading this article better than the part 1. I just didn’t know where that one was going nor the comments posted on that article.
Thanks for giving us the history behind why the “birthday” was made popular by the Fathimid’s.
POWER AND CONTROL.
NO DIFFERENT FROM TODAY.
THAT is why we shouldn’t follow ANY HOLIDAY PRACTICED BY NON-MUSLIMS.
WE HAVE OUR OWN. MashAllah. btw even the Prophet(pbuh) did not follow his own birthday celebration.
I have a friend at work, who also doens’t celebrate birthdays and not even Christmas.
She doens’t believe in them.
She is JEVOHAH WITNESS.
salam
faraz omar
March 14, 2009 at 5:35 AM
Great piece Masha Allah! Nothing beats knowledge.
midatlantic
March 14, 2009 at 8:53 AM
What happened to Ali Shehata’s entry on Ibn Taimiyyah’s position on the mawlid? I managed to read it on my RSS feed alhamdulillah. It’s very good mashaAllah. I never cease to be amazed at the clarity of Ibn Taimiyyah’s thought. He was never shy to call a spade a spade, but did it with such wisdom, evidence, and balance, mashaAllah.
(The audacity of people who constantly misappropriate his comments is also mindboggling, but that’s another topic!).
May Allah grant us more scholars like him – rahimahullah.
Jahan
March 14, 2009 at 9:19 AM
Perhaps the folks who are opposed to mawlid censored it and didn’t want a open knowledgable debate ? Allahu Alim..
While Ibn Taymiyya laid down certain conditions, prohibitions about whats not appropriate in mawlid(BTW, Most of the scholars today also mention), at the end, the post and translations of his work was clearly PROVING he accepted the permissibility of celebrating mawlid and said the folks doing it with right intentions may be rewarded immensely.
ibn al-Waqt
March 14, 2009 at 9:26 AM
@ ALGEBRA “btw even the Prophet(pbuh) did not follow his own birthday celebration.”
What did the Prophet (saw) do on Mondays?
Jahan
March 14, 2009 at 10:19 AM
Reading the article it appears to associate the mawlid to Fatimids and Shias to frighten people and to make a point by quoting some not vey well known historian….If Jamāl al-Dīn Ibn al-Ma’mūn is the son of grand vazir of Fatimid Shias, how reliable is his account. Why are we even quoting people whose family was serving the Shias ?
J
March 14, 2009 at 12:41 PM
I also was able to catch Sh. Shehata article on Ibn Taymiyyahs position on the mawlid. Subhannallah it cleared up so many things for me. I hope the article makes its way back on the site inshallah, as it was tremendously beneficial to me and inshallah to any others who may read it. May Allah reward Sh. Shehata greatly for all his beneficial articles inshallah.
J
N
March 14, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Why was Sh. Shehata article on Ibn Taymiyyah taken down?
Yasir Qadhi
March 14, 2009 at 1:39 PM
Salaam Alaikum
@ S: We will mention this and other facts related to it in Part III. The actions of these Sunni occurred quite a while after the Fatimid introduction.
As for the issue of the legality of its celebration and the back and forth above, it is not relevant to this article, hence I see no need to comment on it. There are plenty of other sites which have dedicated articles to this issue. My article was only meant to discuss the history of the celebration.
@ J: Insha Allah Dr. Ali’s very useful article will be back up soon. There was a minor glitch and it was supposed to come out later, so it will be reposted soon.
@ Jahan: these are standard history books written by eyewitnesses. They contain much details, and one or two paragraphs about the mawlid. There is no incentive for them to lie about it, and that is why it is considered a fact by al later historians including al-MAqrizi. And by the way we actually have two eyewitness accounts directly from the Fatimids, the first being Ibn al-Mamun and the other being Ibn Tuwayr. Both mention the mawlid in passing, and it is really improbable to assume they both intended to ‘implant’ a lie only so that later Sunni authorities would associate the mawlid with Ismailis. Rather, they were both writing to praise the Fatimids and show others how generous they were.
Yasir
Jahan
March 14, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Thanks Shaykh.
You said :
these are standard history books written by eyewitnesses. They contain much details, and one or two paragraphs about the mawlid. ….Both mention the mawlid in passing, and it is really improbable to assume they both intended to ‘implant’ a lie only so that later Sunni authorities would associate the mawlid with Ismailis. Rather, they were both writing to praise the Fatimids and show others how generous they were.
You are basing you conclusion that it was invented by Shias just based on a couple of paragraphs written in passing by some fatimid SHIAs trying to praise fatimids. Even if they were not lying its not a decisive proof come to this concluson. Any other more reliable source, where people specifically wrote about blessed Mawlid of our Prophet Salllalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam. Just wanted to make sure we research well on such sensitive matters before coming to a conclusion and making it public.
Can you take a look at the below references and see if they are reliable or fabricated.
=============================================================================
Earliest Mentions of the Public Mawlid
The oldest source that mentions a public commemoration of the Mawlid is in Ibn Jubayr’s (540-614) Rihal (“Travels”), p. 114-115:
“This blessed place [the house of the Prophet] is opened, and all men enter it to derive blessing from it (mutabarrikin bihi), on every Monday of the month of Rabi` al-Awwal; for on that day and in that month was born the Prophet.”
The 7th-century historians Abul `Abbas al-`Azafi and his son Abul Qasim al-`Azafi wrote in their unpublished Kitab ad-durr al-munazzam:
“Pious pilgrims and prominent travellers testified that, on the day of the mawlid in Makkah, no activities are undertaken, and nothing is sold or bought, except by the people who are busy visiting his noble birthplace, and rush to it. On this day the Ka`ba is opened and visited.”
Three Tenth-Century Accounts of the Mawlid
The following description consolidates eyewitness accounts by three 10th-century authorities: the historian Ibn Zahira al-Hanafi from his al-Jami` al-latif fi fasl Makka wa ahliha, p. 326; Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haytami from his Kitab al-mawlid al-sharif al-mu`azzam, and the historian al-Nahrawali from al-I`lam bi-a`lam bayt Allah al-haram, p. 205.
Each year on the 12th of Rabi` al-Awwal, after the salat al-Maghrib, the four qadis of Makkah (representing the Four Schools) and large groups of people including the fuqaha’ (scholars) and fudala’ (notables) of Makkah, shaykhs, zawiya teachers and their students, ru’asa’ (magistrates), and muta`ammamin (scholars) leave the mosque and set out collectively for a visit to the birthplace of the Prophet, shouting out dhikr and tahlil (LA ILAHA ILLALLAH). The houses on the route are illuminated with numerous lanterns and large candles, and a great many people are out and about. They all wear special clothes and they take their children with them. Having reached the birthplace, inside a special sermon for the occasion of the birthday of the Prophet is delivered, mentioning the miracles (karamat) that took place on that occasion. Hereafter the du`a’ for the Sultan (i.e. the Caliph), the Emir of Makkah, and the Shafi`i qadi is performed and all pray humbly. Shortly before the salat al-`Isha’, the whole party returns from the birthplace of the Prophet to the Great Mosque, which is almost overcrowded, and all sit down in rows at the foot of the Maqam Ibrahim. In the mosque, a preacher first mentions the tahmid (AL HAMDULILLAH) and the tahlil, and once again the du`a’ for the Sultan, the Emir, and the Shafi`i qadi is performed. After this the call for the Salat al-`Isha’ is made. After the salat, the crowd breaks up. A similar description is given by al-Diyarbakri (d. 960) in his Ta’rikh al-Khamis.
ALGEBRA
March 14, 2009 at 2:42 PM
Aslamu-alaikum:
@ibn al-Waqt said:
@ ALGEBRA “btw even the Prophet(pbuh) did not follow his own birthday celebration.”
What did the Prophet (saw) do on Mondays?
The Prophet(pbuh) even fasted on Thursdays. IT WAS NOT BECAUSE HE WANTED TO CELEBRATE HIS BIRTHDAY.
Lets get that clear.
I am not sure why but the angels change shift at ASR time on Mondays and than the Angels change shift on Thursday at ASR time.
Its like we are not suppose to stop talking to our relatives for more than 3 days. If we pray on Monday and we have not made up with anyone we abstained from talking than our DUA is not answered until we make up with that relative.
anyway
Maybe SHEIKH YASIR CAN EXPLAIN.
i am stressed out as it is right now.
salam
Jahan
March 14, 2009 at 2:42 PM
The famous eighth-century historian Ibn Battuta relates in his Rihla (1:309 and 1:347), that on every Friday, after the salat, and on the birthday of the Prophet, the door of Ka`ba is opened by the head of the Banu Shayba, the doorkeepers of the Ka`ba, and that on the Mawlid, the Shafi`i qadi (head judge) of Mecca, Najmuddin Muhammad Ibn al-Imam Muhyiddin al-Tabari, distributes food to the shurafa’ (descendants of the Prophet) and to all the other people of Mecca.
Abd- Allah
March 14, 2009 at 3:47 PM
BROTHER MUA, you mentioned this again “Aside from ilm al hadith and tajweed“, and you said that Tajweed is “taken directly from the Prophet through an unbroken chain”. Where is this chain all the way back to the prophet salla Allahu alyhi wasallam? Can you please provide the source or where is this documented that Tajweed goes back through an unbroken chain all the way back to the prophet?
ibn al-Waqt
March 14, 2009 at 5:09 PM
@ ALGEBRA “IT WAS NOT BECAUSE HE WANTED TO CELEBRATE HIS BIRTHDAY.
Lets get that clear.”
Masha’Allah, its good to see you know EXACTLY what the Prophet (saw) intended.
MUA
March 14, 2009 at 5:35 PM
Br. Abd-Allah: Sorry for the delayed response, I was trying to post up a different comment but for some reason it’s not getting through. As for tajweed or the qiraat going all the way back to the Prophet asws through an unbroken chain, you can examine the ijaza of hufadh and those who have studied tajweed under shuyukh. Some of the ijaza go all the way to some major hufadh, and then it says the sanad after this to the Prophet is well known. As for sources, in English there is some literature out there that talk about the number of qiraat and how it needs to be traced back to the Prophet asws in order for it to be accepted, there were some differences here (e.g. through ahad or tawatur modes). i would refer you to Christopher Melchert’s article, “Ibn Mujahid and the Establishment of Seven Quranic Readings.” I have a copy of this article, but don’t know how to get it to you. Also there is a section in Ahmad Ali al-Imam’s book “Variant Readings of the Quran” that goes over this issue too. In fact, I know Sh. Yasir’s book “An Introduction to the Sciences of the Quran” has a section on ahruf and qiraat, where he talks a little bit about it’s trasmission through unbroken chains going back to the Prophet. In fact, looking at it right now, he has a copy of an ijaza on the last page, and explains it a bit. In arabic, there are several texts, Ibn al-Jazari’s Ghayat al-nihayah and Nashr fil Qiraat al-Ashr and Ibn Mujahid’s Kitab al-Qiraat are seminal works. If you look through the footnotes of the texts i mentioned, you’ll find many others.
MUA
March 14, 2009 at 5:42 PM
trying to post this again.
I don’t want to belabor this point, Akhi al-Karim [S]: What you did was insult people’s intelligence by making a claim and then failing to support it and clear up the issues and criticisms that were raised. You shouldn’t just expect people will accept your idea without having a cogent, coherent argument. We all want to follow the haq, but to get to the haq takes a grudging effort sometimes. One one hadn you said you think argumentation is not part of the deen and bad adab, and then on the other hand you said “do not raise your voice, improve your argument.” That is not consistent.
As for why i have mentioned sufi tariqat, akhi, again your argument is boiler plate language for the bros. in tariqat. Those who argue for an ijaza based educational system don’t say that they are dispensing knowledge that “goes back 1000+ years all the way to the Prophet.” Rather, as i mentioned i think the issue of ijaza needs to be studied more deeply, and it is not as simple as stringing names and dates of death. Aside from ilm al hadith and tajweed (thank you by the way for notifying me about my omission), the only other people who claim that their knowledge was taken directly from the Prophet through an unbroken chain were these sufi tariqat. And like i said when you analyze their chains, none of them are true. In fact, they don’t even pass the simple test of stringing names and death dates. So instead of taking that claim as a truism and then peddle it to people, I suggest you do your due dilligence and verify these claims. And i’ve said nothing abotu whirling dervishes, that’s your own concoction. Fact is you don’t have to be in to that stuff to make the claim you made. Again, i just want to remind you taht you have not answered the issues and criticisms of your argumetn, you skirted them all.
As for your knowledge, i didn’t say you have little knowledge, I said from the sounds of it you’ve never studied a single chain in depth. So let’s please represent each others opinions accurately. And you make it seem as if im not looking at what you’re saying, ya shaykh my whole argument is against your thesis.
I’ll conclude with Ghazzali’s quote in his Munqih: “If you attribute a doctrine to a person of whom the people think well and you provide proof that this doctrine actually issued from him, they will accept it, even if it is false; and if you trace a doctrine to a person of whom they think ill, they will reject it, even if it is true. Invariably, they rely on men in order to know the truth, rather than relying on the truth in order to know men.”
hayat
March 14, 2009 at 8:20 PM
aselamu alikum everyone
I LOVE CELEBRATING MEWLID ANY WAYS I WILL DO IT WITH LOTS OF ZIKR AND ISLAMIC BURDA AND WITH GIVING SEDEKA WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT , THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DOES NOT PRAY AND KILL CHEAT LIE AND SO ON , IT IS BETTER WE TAKL ABOUT THE THING MOST MATTER RAHTER THAN ARGU WITH SOMETHING SIMPLE CELEBRATING IT IS BECASE OF LOVE THAT IS ALL.
FI AMANILAH ALL
Abd- Allah
March 14, 2009 at 10:34 PM
“I’ll conclude with Ghazzali’s quote in his Munqih: “If you attribute a doctrine to a person of whom the people think well and you provide proof that this doctrine actually issued from him, they will accept it, even if it is false; and if you trace a doctrine to a person of whom they think ill, they will reject it, even if it is true. Invariably, they rely on men in order to know the truth, rather than relying on the truth in order to know men.””- MUA
Brother MUA, that statement above isn’t fully accurate. In the science of hadith when studying the men in the chain (ilm alrijal), they look at whether each man is honest or not in order to accept what he has said or not. So in reality, they rely on the truth to know men, and then they rely on the truthful men to know the truth.
abu abdAllah Tariq Ahmed
March 14, 2009 at 11:34 PM
jazak Allah khayr, shaykh Yasir. so few Muslims in America understand the history of the Muslims after the time of the rightly guided Khulufaa. they usually get high marks if they comprehend that dynastic rule was introduced after the rule of Ali, much less which dynasty deviated from true Islamic theology and in which way. as one of the people whose eyes were as big as saucers during History of the Khulufaa, i thank you and pray to Allah for barakat for you for having taken the time to write this lesson in history for us.
i still pray for that Al Maghrib will offer more history classes: the history of Islam after the Conquests by the first Khulufaa — that is a “niche” market only in the sense that it is so untapped. wAllaho’Alim, i think they would become among the most beloved and best attended classes. and the service to the Ummah in the West of knowing its past, framed by teachers who respect the sunnah fully, that would surely be worth the effort.
@Amad or Omar — can we add links to part I of the series? jazak Allah khayr!
Siraaj Muhammad
March 14, 2009 at 11:34 PM
Is this debate really happening?
Siraaj
abu abdAllah Tariq Ahmed
March 14, 2009 at 11:46 PM
@Siraaj — which one? the one taking in the place in the comments among people who spend very little time on the article itself? or the one about the date of the mawlid? if the latter, i do not think Yasir is suggesting that most Muslims debate the date. i think he is showing us why the date itself is a historical construct, an artifact of the rule of the Fatimids. this is a history piece. at least as i read it.
if the former, it’s just so much noise. like having neighbors so loud and obnoxious that their conversations sound like they are taking place in your living room. except that here, they can actually walk right in.
S
March 14, 2009 at 11:52 PM
Br MUA,
I wanted to just stop posting and i’m sure i will not be able to satisfy you akhi..
Ijaza is not just for transmission of hadth in traditional islam but also for transmission of any of the islamic texts of fiqh, aqidah, poems and so on, the system of which was developed in early hadith scholarship.
I have seen Ijazas/Isnad of couple of works by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf , one for Burda Al-Busiri(Unbroken Chain goes back to Ibn Hajar al Asqalani and from Ibn Hajr to Imam Busiri himself). He has unbroken chain published in the copy of Burda. Also, the Ijaza for Aqida of Imam Tahawi.
Shaykh Hamza is not some obscure figure, he is well known prominent scholar, why don’t someone get in touch with Zaytuna, ask them about proof and authenticity of things they openly publish in the books and sell in many bookstore arounnd the world.
When some scholars take positions which were taken by only a scholar 6/7 centuries back, then it becomes clear that they just read books of those scholars who wrote them 6/7 centuries back, whose opinion happen to coincide with the opinion of this modern day scholars. This is the issue we are facing today. I do not want to go into specifics but you will see few scholars in 5th and 7th century took some position different from main-stream scholarship of their time or earlier, directly going back to sahaba and they based their ruling directly upon their own understanding of Athar and saying. Then you will see same thing with some 13th/14th century scholars followed these 5th/7th century scholars but no one in between or going back directly to their own understanding of Hadith.
I remember you mentioned a Hadith talking about people taking knowledge from waraqat/papers, this hadith talked about Eman(which i have no problem in understanding, even a person just knowing fard al ayn can have more eman than big scholars) but did it also say that such people can lead the masses ?
———————-
As i said Shaykh Yaqoubi explained the importance of isnad: Listen to it.
http://www.onlineislamicstore.com/a4744.html
If you have issues listening to this great Shaykh, its your choice i have no problem then read what a harvard professor has to say(excerpt pasted below).I can only hint at the most, If you want me to prove and explain every thing to you here in comments section of some article, i have to admit i’m not qualifed nor i want to.
———————————–
An ijazah is a certificate used primarily by Muslims to indicate that one has been authorized by a higher authority to transmit a certain subject or text of Islamic knowledge. This usually implies that the student has learned this knowledge through face-to-face interactions “at the feet” of the teacher.
In a paper titled Traditionalism in Islam: An Essay in Interpretation,[1] Harvard professor William A. Graham explains the ijazah system as follows:
“ The basic system of “the journey in search of knowledge” that developed early in Hadith scholarship, involved travelling to specific authorities (shaykhs), especially the oldest and most renowned of the day, to hear from their own mouths their hadiths and to obtain their authorization or “permission” (ijazah) to transmit those in their names. This ijazah system of personal rather than institutional certification has served not only for Hadith, but also for transmission of texts of any kind, from history, law, or philology to literature, mysticism, or theology. The isnad of a long manuscript as well as that of a short hadith ideally should reflect the oral, face-to-face, teacher-to-student transmission of the text by the teacher’s ijazah, which validates the written text. In a formal, written ijazah, the teacher granting the certificate typically includes an isnad containing his or her scholarly lineage of teachers back to the Prophet of Companions, a later venerable shaykh, or the author of a specific book. ”
————————————————————————-
One of the brothers Abu AbdurRahman mentioned in previous thread:
” It truely is so sad how any such topic can cause such an uproar among any Muslim crowd. While I do understand why people feel matters such as these are important, I cannot but feel it a pitiful state that we are in that at the same points of each calender year we as an Ummah will always go through the same thoughts and argumenets – ….”
About “Same point each calendar year” – why did Sh. Yasir start this whole topic up around Mawlid time(“Same time each calendar”)…Can someone believe that he didn’t know this will create fitna among the ummah. If he had to educate people about the history why didn’t he do it in some other time……??
Ibn Abu Aisha
March 15, 2009 at 12:48 AM
@abu abdAllah Tariq Ahmed – if the former, it’s just so much noise. like having neighbors so loud and obnoxious that their conversations sound like they are taking place in your living room. except that here, they can actually walk right in.
Masha Allah! You described their situation SO WELL, totally loved it
Siraaj Muhammad
March 15, 2009 at 12:57 AM
@abu Abdullah – yeah, I meant the comments section. I guess it’s a bit condescending, though, for me to say something like that simply because I’ve seen these debates before in years past and I’m sorta “been there, done that, move on”, y’know? Or to say something like, “experience will teach you in a few years that you wasted a lot of time you could have spent doing better things,” because I always hated it when people did it to me (even if they were right).
Anyway, that’s the internet, I got no credibility myself on calling down internet debate, I guess I’m just bored and not looking for re-runs, so to speak ;)
Siraaj
MUA
March 15, 2009 at 3:56 AM
Abd-Allah: i don’t think your understanding is at odds with Imam al-Ghazzali. Realize that you mentioned that you have to know the truth in order to know men, and THEN (in the context of ilm al-rijaal) rely on truthfull men in order to know the truth. You’ve predicated reliance of men on the truth itself. Moreover, it’s well know that al-Ghazzali realized the necessity of looking at the sanad to ensure that trasmitters fulfilled the conditions to accept reports from them. I don’t see any discrepnacy between what your understanding is and Imam al-Ghazzali.
Br. S: I don’t disagree with your last post that ijaza were used in other disciplines of Islam including fiqh. In fact, I made that clear from the very beginning. The Ijaza system was used to transmit knowledge in a manner that was designed to protect the content and link it to the author of the text. But in those ijaza you won’t see the claim that it goes all the way back to the Prophet asws through an unbroken chain. This is what I have been contesting all along. Rather a connected ijaza will go to the author of the work/text. That’s why i said this type of pedagogy needs to be researched more. But it’s certainly a far cry away from your initial claim. You cannot equate those two concepts. As for Prof. Graham’s article, I’ve actually read that article, and i don’t disagree with what you quoted at all. Again, realize he said several times that an ijaza can go back to an “author of a specific book.” I have no problem with that. But to say that scholars in general have studied under shuyukh and it goes all the way back to the Prophet via an unbroken chain, and therefore we should accept the practice of milad or any other ruling for that matter. There is no precendence for this (aside from ahadith and tajweed), it cannot be substantiated. In fact, i gave you an example of people who claim that and have a broken chain in the very beginning. As for busairi – i haven’t looked at that ijaza, and it may very well go back to Busairi, but it certainly stops there, for sure it doesn’t go back to the Prophet! So all the ijaza means in this context is that the content may be connected to the author not the Prophet asws.
As far as Shuyukh interpreting things directly from ahadith or athar. I’ll give you two examples in which great mujtahideen have held an opinion opposing yours. One in Imam Abu Hanifah, who used to say in regards to interpreting the words of the Prophet which may differ from others in his predecessors and contemporaries, Hum rijaal wa Nahnu Rijal. Secondly, i’ll give you another great scholar, Imam Shawkani in the 13c H., a mujtahid (and some even consider him mujtahid mutlaq), from him a mujtahid – “is one who extracts the legal proofs from their sources and imagines himself present at the time of the Prophecy (fi zaman al-nabuwwa) and the coming of revelation, even though he is in fact living at the end of time. [He must imagine that] no scholar has preceded him or any mujtahid taken precedence over him. The legal provisions (al-khitabat al-shariyya)relate to him as they did to the Companions, without any difference. (Adab al-talab, p. 122).
Some of the bros. have commented, that they’ve “been there, done that” in regards to this discussion. Ya Ikhwa if that’s the case, then help us get a clearer understanding on the issue by engaging, since some of you are all so experienced. But if you think the discussion is destined to go in circles because of your experience, I would say that have a little more faith in finding the truth, and realize that sometimes we really have to toil to arrive at the correct understanding. Now if it’s not your cup of tea, that’s fine, no problem, but please do not be condescending, and yeah that was. This issue came up and was originally related to the article of Sh. yasir because it was said that scholars who have celebrated milad are justifed because they have some unbroken chain going back to the Prophet and the discussion should “end there”, and that the reason why there are difference is because some scholars who came later on circumvented this chain and interpreted the sources directly. I personally felt the claim that was made needed to be addressed because not only is it not true, the ramifications have had a devestating effect on the ummah. I’ll just give you an example, some of my friends are studying in Yemen at a school where the students believe that the head of the school gets orders directly from the Prophet even on issues on how to run the school itself (and the head of the school believes this too – and imagine what this does to the level of education when a person cannot be questioned about what is taught and is impervious to criticism because their trump card is some alleged unbroken connection to the Prophet – this is certainly not how the founders of the madhahib taught the great scholars). And its all an outgrowth of this warped notion of having ilm that is connected through an unbroken chain back to the Prophet (again aside from hadith and tajweed).
S
March 15, 2009 at 9:41 AM
Akhi Mua,
You mixed up things. I never said, the main reason why people celebrate the Mawlid is that they have Ijaza goign back to our Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).
Let me clarify:
Here are the main points i gave why people permitted Mawlid till this day and age:
————————————————————————————
First, Many great scholars of this ummah permitted it like: Ibn taymiyyah, Imam Nawawi, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, Imam Suyuti, etc who were not from the same time and age ,together either by their outright or silent acceptance of mawlid . There is high improbability that they all could have permitted something outright haram or reprehensible bidah together at different points in history. The conditions/prohibition for Mawlid which they laid down are also laid down by scholar of today. Now if people want to give some rare EXTREME examples and want to just throw the baby with bath water, its up to them.
When Shaykh Yasir can base this conclusion that Mawlid was innovated by Shias by just couple some small paragraphs/references from some obsure historian who were Fatimid Shias(btw, which was sad for me to see), why can’t people base their position of Mawlid on this trust worthy, well known, who were unanimously considered as the stars in the history of scholarship of sunni islam ?
——————————————————————————————————————-
Second i said to people who accuse people doing Mawlid for not following Sunnah, i asked them:
You cannot be a Judge, Accuser and Executioner together at the same time.
This is the principle, someone who is accused is considered, innocent unless proven guilty. Thats how law works, accused is not considered guilty by default unless proven innocent. Have mercy on your brother ya akhi, pleasee, don’t be unjust to them.
If you accuse someone of going against th sunnah, you need to come up with a hadith which explicitly says its haram or makruh to celebrate the Prophet (Sallalahu Alayhi wa Sallam)’ s birthday, specifically. If that was the case and if there existed a sahih hadith that its haram to celebrate the Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi wa Sallam)’ s birthday and Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) had mentioned it explicitly, then i’m sure all the scholars mentioned above would not have kept quite and would have called it haram. Our Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) also said my ummah will not agree upon an error. So came the principle of Ijma(Consensus).
The mubah(permissible) action/means take the ruling of their end goals. If the action/means are mubah(not haram) and end goals one is trying to acheive with it is mustahabb or mandub, then the actions/means are considered mustahab/mandub. End goal here is effort to increase love of our Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam), rejoicing on his birth, etc. Thats what Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah was mentioning up there, since he was a great A’lim and understood this basic principle.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————–
On the side !, i mentioned the other things in general that there are differences due to people reading books without having ijazas/chain going the original author or our Prophet Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam. There is very high probability of misunderstading. There is high probablity that people following a school’s teaching mass trasmitted knowledge have lot more clarity, vast knowledge, better grip on the subject.
Get in touch with historians of today like Shaykh abd al Hakim Murad(cambridge university), they should be able to prove to you about Ijazas in various sciences going back to our Prophet(Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). Akhi Ijaza of Burda cannot go back to our Prophet Sallalahu Alayhi Wa Sallam, cause its a poem written by Imam Busiri :). I mentioned that just to explain.
Thats the reason people spent 10s of years before they came out to lead the ummah. Can we can have scholar with few years of cursory study lead the ummah, btw, others have read just a couple of works in couple of years with correct understanding and adab.
About the saying you quoted, i think its again sophistry: commonly quoted sayings: “Throw my opinion against the wall if you find a Dai’f, Hadith/Sahih Hadith is my madhab, they are men and we are men and so on” – this was said by scholars to their students who were at the level of mujtahid themselves, so they revive their schools based on later findings and historically the students did. It was being told to people with requisite knowledge and understanding of principles and spent enough time with their teachers learning knowledge and adab. Not some beginner level students of knowledge or layman who thinks its their duty to correct umah by reading hadith from Bukhari or just english translation of bukhari !! . This thing never existed earlier.
Quoting Imam Shawkani/Ibn Hazm is not much help since their position is not mainstream sunni position and i do not want to eloborate. You are quoting some 13th hijri century scholar who was one of the main proponent of do it yourself islam.
May Allah(Subhanahu Wa Ta’la) turn our hearts towards the truth where were it leads us to…..both of us ya Akhi may Allah SubhanaHu Wa Ta’la show us the right path.
Student
March 15, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Asalaam Alaykum everyone, first of all I would like to say that the importance of putting up lectures/articles about the Mawlid during its time is to try stop the people getting into any sort of Bidah activities as much as possible. Its is our duty to make people, muslims and non muslims, aware of the truth. The Nature of mankind is such that when told to stop a wrong act…they tend to do it more….so to stop an evil, one must use wisdom and Alhamdulillah Shk Yasir has done a great job of first talking about its history rather than saying it straight forward that Celebrating the Mawlid is Bida’h.
Remember that good deeds will only be accepted if done according to the Prophet’s (sallahu alayhi wasallam) method and sincerely for Allah’s pleasure.
Also, it is true that discussions like these may cause fitna, but if we see a wrong we should stop it…and if stopping an evil will create a bigger evil then it should be avoided. And Alhamdulillah this has not happened.
May Allah help us have a better understanding of religion without following people and desires blindly.
The following is the link to the ruling on Celebrating the Mawlid according to the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama’h.
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/books/95
I have a question regarding fasting on Monday with the same intention that the Prophet sallahu alayhi wa sallam had…i.e… because he was born on Monday and revelation came to him on Monday.
Jazakum Allahu Khayr
Siraaj Muhammad
March 15, 2009 at 3:50 PM
Salaam alaykum Akhi Mua,
Well, I admitted it was condescending, and I suppose if the goal is to convey at least once so there are no excuses, fair enough. “S” asked for evidence of this action being haraam. The response is that the Prophet said all bid’ah is in the Hellfire. “S” will retort that this should not be understood to include all bid’ah because certain Companions did things like taraweeh (‘Umar) in congregation, and even called it a bid’ah hasanah. To which the reply will come, this is linguistic, not shar’i, and that the Prophet had done this before (praying taraweeh during ramadan in congregation) so it could not be new. To which will come the reply great scholars like an-Nawawi believed in it and that bid’ah has five rulings according to what type of bid’ah it is, and how dare you question an-nawawi? To which will be the reply scholars can make mistakes and are not a hujja. To which will come the reply, well, it’s a difference of opinion then because many great scholars held these opinions and you have to respect the difference, even if you think it’s haraam. To which will come the reply, yes, in fiqh matters, I have to respect differences of opinion, but bid’ah relates to ‘aqeedah, so I don’t because Allah stated he perfected the religion, and here you are adding to it, and calling it good, therefore contradicting Allah’s statement in the Qur’aan in action that Islam is perfected and not in need of addition. To which will come the reply, part of the perfection is allowing bid’ah hasanah. To which will come the reply, no, the verse says completed and perfected, that means we can’t have anything new added by random people, and the Prophet said when there is confusion, stick to my sunnah, and that of the rightly guided caliphs.
I’m sure there will be some other interesting twists and turns, but that’s usually about 70 – 80% of the discussion (not necessarily in that order).
Siraaj
Qas
March 15, 2009 at 4:11 PM
Algebra…this is sincere naseeha…you sound like a raving lunatic when you type like that.
ALGEBRA
March 15, 2009 at 4:30 PM
@Qas
I don’t you guys naseehah’s it goes through one ear and out the other.
I am being really honest…………… you guys talk much………. but little in other ways………. why don’t yo hold yourself accountable instead critisizing everyone else on this blog………… especially siraj………….
he is a self rightous condescending ego bruised man
and i know he is the one and his buddy saqib saab are the ones that didn’t like my comments before and they had everything to do with moderating me.
go moderate yourself.
i can bring out tons of your flaws out according to the quran and sunnah………. many many arguments if i wanted to.
salam
Abu Abdurrahman
March 15, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Bismillah…
Assalamu alaykum Brothers,
I don’t usually get into back and forth discussions, and as such I hope you will forgive me for not posting again on this particular thread, because the topic in and of itself does at times feel little more than a seasonal polemic – which we pray that Allah keeps us all safe and sound from, wa billahi tawfeeq.
So I wished to clarify that I hadn’t in any place said, or inferred ‘ahlul bidah’ – as one brother, may Allah preserve him – said. But what I did say is that this was an example of a more general trend I mongst others have been noticing, and hence this just being used as an example to get a cross a particular mindset which many du’at and tullab alike have also experienced due to simialr challenges confronting most of our communities. I also said that (in the more genral sense) the biggest single bid’ah we are indivually suffering from is our lacking adab being left uncensured. May Allah forgive us.
The couple of points that I mentioned earlier were more aimed at any tullab, and some in specific, as I know that they will be able to understand exactly where we’re coming from – rather than an open ended cliff-hanger… But since it was put in an open blog, and since the Brother ( I think it was either S or MUA) made a valid point/raised a decent question: that the practioners of a said action, say Mawlid or whatever else of that genre of deeds, will have people that they take recourse to who who will have scholars going back quite a while who also validated the deed.
NOW please, let me clarify what I said( and this is putting aside statements of many Sahabah [kulli ibadatin lam yata’abbad-ha ashabu rasoolilah fala ta’abbadooha …every action of Ebadah that the Sahabah did not do, then do not do it; and that caution/leaving what is doubtful for what is not etc.) :
The matter is VERY simple: if the bros/sis is doing something that they believe to be right, while following scholarship that they trust in that matter (while being true muqallids – ie not spiritually/intellectually being able to access the texts as per the Traditional credentials required) – then they are obviously free of sin, and are in fact, rewarded for their deed. Intention and Deed. But, that does not, remit it from it – in and of itself being a misdeed, or even a bid’ah, if that were to be the case.
The duty then would only fall on those who know to clarify/educate those who don’t, as long as it will not lead to a greater harm or a worse practice. If one isn’t at the level to know that – then it has to be left for those who do know it, and know to be gentle and wise in their mannerisms and akhlaq.
As for the schoalrs – then if they were sincere – whcih we inevitablyl hold that to be the case, then they are rewarded provided that they took the full and correct effort required to come to a conclusion. It is a matter which they exerted their ijtihad. But that doesn’t mean that one who believes that it simply was not a matter of ijtihad in the first place – because it being overridden by a consensus of the earlier scholars, need to legitimise it, in and of itself.
And this is all beside the facts that said before – that I for one belive that the deed that any of the (realtively) earlier ulema who did validate such an action werre in essence almost referring to a wholly diffferent act when compared to how it is practised today, to the extent I query whether they would ever consider allowing certain prevailing forms of it today, especially with many grossly problematic (potential shirk related) aspects which are incorrectly understood to also be acceptable.
And with Allah lies all Success.
Ps. If I’ve said anything wrong/offensive – please do forgive me; and if I’ve spoken out of place, omce agian please forgive me. Finally if I’ve confused anyone – please do not worry, the issue of Mawlid in this sense, is really not that big a deal: we really do have far bigger and more pressing issues confronting us all.
Wassalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah
abu abdAllah Tariq Ahmed
March 15, 2009 at 6:03 PM
bismillah. time to get out of the living room. :) seriously, Asr is in about 13 minutes at the masjid, and I’m going to be there inshaAllah. where should you guys be?
Faisal
March 15, 2009 at 8:37 PM
As-salamalikum,
Someone said it earlier.. I love reading about the history of Islam. So many lessons to be derived from the early periods, SubhanAllah.
I believe MM should a separate section just for posts on history.
Jahan
March 15, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Checkout the answer of Ahle Sunnah wal Jama’h – Sunni ulema who follow one of the four schools:
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=1776&CATE=108
Faisal
March 15, 2009 at 9:30 PM
@Jahan,
The article you posted its reference is the same “sunnah.org” (check the link at the end of the article) website that NJ previously posted.
Please read my previous comment on the authenticity of the website
Abd- Allah
March 15, 2009 at 9:49 PM
Brother Jahan, please, everyone knows that sunnipath are SUFI and are NOT considered “Ahle Sunnah wal Jama’h” by any standard.
MUA
March 15, 2009 at 9:52 PM
Bro. S: wow, are you for real? SubhanAllah, not only are you inconsistent (still engaging in argumentation which you don’t believe is part of the deen, says a lot about how much you are willing to follow your principles and adhere to your deen), but have the audacity and arrogance to belittle Imam Shawkani (I won’t even mention anything about Ibn Hazm, since I didn’t bring him up), subhanAllah, as a proponent of do it yourself Islam (just because he argued against taqlid)? I bet you’ve never studied anything from the shaykh, but you so easily dismissed him. SubhanAllah, well, at least it’s clear now that you’re not willing to be objective and your taqlid has effectively blinded you – it’s true what they say the murid is certainly the dead body in the hands of his washer. Btw, Imam Shawkani had garnered ijazas in the several hundreds and isanid for a multitude of works, something neither you nor I’m sure your teachers can even dream about. Akhi, you’ve really gone too far, it might do you good to actually study the works of scholars before you accept what your teacher tells you and adopt it as your own.
As for the multitude of saying of the great eponyms rejecting your line of thought, I find it amazing how you interpret all that. According to you they were making those statements in front of their students (which is obvious), who according to you were at the level of mujtahideen. Akhi, do you even know what a mujtahid is, because everything you’ve said shows that you think taqleed is the duty of a mujtahid. Do you know, that the overwhelming number of mujtahideen forbade a mujtahid from making taqleed on an issue if they were capable of making ijtihad on that issue?
Btw, no one has argued that it’s ok for a beginner level student to make ijtihad by merely interpreting ahadith or quran through translations. This is just a strawman argument you made up so you can defeat it. As for correcting the ummah, would you say al-Hasan wal Hussein (rAa) were wrong for correcting an elder man on making wudu incorrectly? Even after the Prophet asws stated, “Balaghu ani wa low ayah.”
Finally, alhamdulilah, you’ve shown your true intent now by mentioning all these Sufis, obviously your true intent was to pitch the idea of ijaza in tasawwuf, your comments have made that crystal clear, whereas before you were trying so hard to disguise it by mentioning scholars in the Hanbali madhhab. Akhi you don’t need to work is such devious ways, just be honest and forthright. And it’s interesting the example of Busairi you gave don’t even get you to where you want to go. Your thesis was that this ilm you speak of goes all the way back to the Prophet asws through an unbroken chain, and the example you gave fell well short of that, I’m glad you realized that, alhamdulilah. I also find it interesting that you keep mentioning Ibn Taymiyya, as I mentioned before, do you know that he was accused of not be authorized and qualified to teach and give fatawa – essentially the same accusations you have? I would suggest reading Sherman Jackson’s, “Ibn Taymiyyah on Trial in Damascus” for more information on all that Ibn Taymiyyah was accused of and how he was exonerated, may Allah swt be pleased with him. Also, I would suggest reading Prof. Bernard Weiss’ “Exotericism and Objectivity in Islamic Jurisprudence” for a better understanding of where your thesis originates from and how the legal tradition in Islam has completely rejected it.
Alhamdulilah, I think I’ve said enough on this issue, I have shown an example of how an alleged unbroken chain to the Prophet in tasawwuf (Naqshabandi tariqa) is untrue. The burden of proof is on bros. like S to prove this claim every time they make mention of it (which in tasawwuf they will never be able to do), when they can only parrot this claim that they heard from their teachers it proves they’re bankrupt.
May Allah swt forgive us all, guide us aright in these tough and trying times.
S
March 16, 2009 at 10:03 AM
(Ibn Rajab , Al-Radd `Ala Man Ittab`a Ghayr Al-Madhahib Al-Arba`-Trans. Musa Furber – p7-8):
“The preservation of fiqh through four schools] is among Allah’s gentle kindness toward His believing slaves, and among the mass of His customary laws in preserving this religion. If not for this, people would have seen the wonder of wonders: every imbecile, hot-headed, insolent, sham who was impressed with his opinion would claim that he is the greatest of all Imams, that he is the one to guide the umma, that people should turn only to him, and that no one else should be relied upon.
However, with praise for Allah and His gracious bestowal, this door of great danger and tremendous weight was barred. And this great corruption was constrained. This is among gentle kindness, beautiful habits, and tender mercies of Allah Most High towards His slaves.
In spite of this, people still appear, claiming to have reached the level of ijtihad, speak about knowledge without restraint, or following one of those Imams. This is tolerated from some of them because of the outward veracity of their claims; for others, their statement is rebutted and they are declared liars in their claim. As for everyone else who has not reached this level: they are only capable of following one of these Imams and following what the rest of the umma did. ”
Over and out.
ume gull
March 16, 2009 at 5:58 PM
bismirabbi, aslamoalikum,
alhumdulilah it’s really very good, effevtive and informative effore.but the only request is this to simplify all this information as lay who can sometimes it’s really difficult to grasp the words of difficult vocabulary, so kindly if u can make it more precise and shor tthen a man who knows a very basic english can also be benifted,as i really want to send it to others but some of them can read these historical fact while others love to have it.
so in short if u can make one for those whol like to have cited informated and for short for those who just want to know straight an dunabl e to go into deeper things
jazak Allah ho kheir
wsalam
ume gullsimple lmakeall this information more
Umm Ismael
March 17, 2009 at 2:31 PM
Asslam u alaikum wr wb,
Alhamdulillah, wonderful work. I used to be one of those who were deeply into tasawuf. I only had to read some chapters of Saheeh Bukhari to help me open my eyes. The beauty of Islam is Tauheed and thereby the eternal power of ALLAH as LawMaker and King of the hearts (metaphorically speaking) of all creation. No one else has the right to do that. And therein lies the absoluteness and beauty of our deen. Many deviant beliefs such as kashf etc are refuted by the concept of Tauheed and many a deviant practises are refuted by the concept of perfection that ALLAH Granted to His deen. May ALLAH Show us the truth as the truth and help us follow it and show us falsehood as falsehood and Help us abstain from it. Ameen.
IH
March 17, 2009 at 9:41 PM
which seerah of the Prophet (SWT) do you recommend for a beginning student? for a higher level of knowledge student?
ar.m
March 17, 2009 at 9:50 PM
asalamu alaikum
i do not like this bidda
ws
Student
March 18, 2009 at 3:19 AM
Asalaam Alaykum
@ IH
I would really recommend you to listen to the series on the life of the Prophet sallahu alayhi wasallam by Imam Anwar al Awlaki. They are Fabulous..and its more of Fiqh usSeerah…rather than just the story…it teaches us lessons for each and every event.
Jazakum Allahu Khayr
Mu7aqiq
March 19, 2009 at 5:03 AM
Salam alaikum,
I would like to know, what is wrong with remembering the prophet (saw) by using his birthday as a mark to remember him by? Sure it is good to remember him and his teachings all the time and no particular day is required, but if it’s merely just a day to show remembrance what is wrong with that?
My second question is, has the prophet (saw) or in the Quran, any where stated that it is Haram (prohibited) to celebrate his birthday? What we mean by celebration is simply remembering the prophet (saw) and all the good characteristics and teachings we gained from him.
Is it possible to make something Haram ( prohibited ) if the prophet (saw) and/or Allah (swt) by Quran did not do so?
Allahu Alim
Student
March 19, 2009 at 7:32 AM
@ Mu7aqiq
Wa alaykum salaam warahmatulla wa baraktuh,
Of course the Imams have a much better understanding than any of us as they have sincerely, inshaAllah, dedicated their lives to learn and comprehend this Beautiful religion of Islam and then pass it on to students of knowledge.
to comment on your question, according to whatever limited knowledge I have, we are NOT allowed in Islaam to invent new Matters, and also to copy the Kufaar..secondly, why not remember the Prophet sallahu alayhi wasallam every moment of our lives? why just his birthday?
Also, for our deeds to be accepted there are two conditions, first, that they should only be for Allah’s cause with sincerity and second, according to the teachings of the Prophet sallahu alayhi wa sallam. Celebrating by remembering him might be sicerely for Allah but it is soomething not taught to us by the Prophet nor done by any of his noble followers who practised his teachings the best!
We should not get into doubtful matters and also we need to listen to what our scholars say…i am not saying blindly, but as long as their proofs are authentic…we must abide by their agreements and cast away the doubtful matters.
Also, InshaAllah I pray to Allaah subhanahu wa ta’la that by saying we want to just remember the Prophet on his birth, we do not say indirectly that the Companions and the righteous predecessors didnt follow the Prophet in the best way.
Lets just do what pleases Allah the best! Follow the Sunnah the way is needs to be followed to attain salvation for Humanity. We need to stop questioning uselessly and stop following our desires even if they may seem within the Shariah boundaries but could indirectly lead one astray and away from the real teachings of Tawheed. Unless and until we listen whole heartedly to the righteous Imams and Scholars and come to an agreement, victory is no where near us.
HasbunAllahu Wani’mal Wakeel
Allah knows best…
Wsalaam 3laykum
I hope inshaAllah this was useful.
Mu7aqiq
March 19, 2009 at 5:52 PM
wa alaikum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu bro Student
I agree that Imams and Scholars should have a better understanding since they studied religious matters in more depth. However, their decisions and decree’s do come with their reasoning. I simply want to listen to their explanations and reasoning. I’m not casting doubts or making judgements, I ask only to learn.
You mentioned: ” …to comment on your question, according to whatever limited knowledge I have, we are NOT allowed in Islaam to invent new Matters, and also to copy the Kufaar..secondly, why not remember the Prophet sallahu alayhi wasallam every moment of our lives? why just his birthday? ”
My question was did the prophet (saw) or does it say so in the Quran that celebrating his birthday is prohibited (Haram). As I said, I realize no particular day is required. You mentioned that in Islaam, we are not allowed to invent new ‘Matters’ or copy the ‘Kufaar’ – I understand that creating new practices and/or beliefs to Islaam would be changing it and thus prohibited. But Islaam is a complete religion and we are supposed to be clearly told what is prohibited and what is permitted. So that is why I’m asking if the prophet (saw) said celebrating his birthday is Haram – or if it says so in the Quran. I just want to know the references that’s all.
Logically; if our intentions are for good; for Allah’s (swt) sake, and our intentions and actions are not prohibited by Allah (swt) or by the prophet (saw) … then how could such an act be declared prohibited?
What I’m seeing is that your reasoning is that, because nobody during the prophet’s (saw) time celebrated his birthday, therefore it is haram. – without a direct order from Allah (swt), Quran, or the prophet (saw) stating that it is haram?
One thing from the article I want to also comment on, Of course it would make sense that the prophet (saw) wouldn’t order his companions (ra) and people to celebrate his birthday. Why would he? the important question is aren’t prohibited things declared in Islam without ambiguity?
Also, it would be interesting to know if calendar systems and such things as birthdays were known back then.
ws
Student
March 20, 2009 at 8:02 AM
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/books/95
http://www.islam-qa.com
heres the fatwa of the noble scholars of islam…and it up to us to take it or reject it…but we will be answerable….may Allah grant us the right aqeedah ameen.
fozia b.
November 24, 2009 at 2:22 PM
The above ‘history’ of the mawlid is questionable. See for instance, Sanders (1998), p.173:
In the late Fatimid period, the court actively borrowed from the flourishing
local religious tradition. In addition to the celebrations of festivals,
they patronized the cult surrounding the veneration of the Prophet’s family
that had been a feature of Egyptian Islamic religious life since early Islamic
times. In the twelfth century, their participation in these cultic activities
became more systematic, and they built numerous tomb monuments dedicated
to various descendants of the family of the Prophet. This presentation
of the ruler in ways that could be invested equally with a specifically Isma’ili
and a broadly Islamic meaning typified late Fatimid court ritual life.
Abd- Allah
January 12, 2010 at 1:24 PM
Interestingly enough, most of those who seem to be calling for a celebration of the mawlid don’t even bother to write out “salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam” after the Prophet’s name and instead just write “S.A.W” or “pbuh”. If you claim that you love the Prophet salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam then you can start by writing peace and blessings after mentioning his name rather than calling for a celebration of the mawlid!
sajid a kayum
January 19, 2011 at 12:07 PM
As-Salaam Aalikum All,
Jazaak Allah Khair for this beneficial article
……………………………………..
Here is the English translation of Shaikh Al-Fawaan’s (hafidhahullah) discussion on Mawlid
“The Ruling concerning Mawlid an-Nabawi”
http://www.qsep.com/books/mawlid.html
sameh
February 6, 2011 at 1:35 PM
thanks for information but sorry am proud to celebrate it again nd again
Albashanasir1000
April 2, 2012 at 7:16 PM
If anything has khayir in our deen do u think the prophet (SAAWS) would not do it.
He did not celebrate his birthday nor his companion so why do it if we try to give all our love to him we wont be able to give it like his companion gave him.
And to love him is from Iman like is mentioned in a hadeeth of Omar when he said o prophet of Allah i love u more than my parent’s and my wealth and my children Rasool- Allah said and Ur self Omar (RA) said no then Rasool Allah said then Ur Iman is not complete and then he said and my self O prophet of Allah then he said Ur Iman now is completed.
But that dose not mean we can innovate new thing’s to the deen to show our love to the prophet.
May Allah guide us all.
MO SAAD
April 2, 2012 at 7:29 PM
يا شيخ إني أحبك في الله
أنا ولدت في السعودية ودرست تحت العلماء في القصيم و أكملت دراستي في لندن و قد فكرت أن أذهب إلى أمريكا للتدريس فهل تنصحني بشئ عن العقيدة في هذه البلاد.
شكرا جزيلا و جزاكم الله خيرا أخوك في الله محمد سليمان
Pingback: Rabi ul Awwal - AlHuda International School
Pingback: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid - Part I of III - MuslimMatters.org
Ismail Zuky Niseng
February 7, 2016 at 10:59 AM
The information presented in all three parts of the History of the Mawlid is Par Excellence thus may Allah SWT rewards the authors with blessing of Jannah, aameen.
Pingback: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid | Islamic Verdicts
Pingback: The Birth-Date of the Prophet and the History of the Mawlid | Al Kahfi Services