Understanding the Pain of the Zimmerman Trial

27 Comments

1. 

   Jay W

   August 2, 2013 at 1:56 PM

   The Zimmerman trial and acquittal is a very poor case to use as context for the misinformed “pain” from the verdict. There was no evidence of racial profiling. It had nothing to do with the “stand your ground” law. The verdict of acquittal was based on Zimmerman defending himself against Martin.

   In the US, the system of justice and law is the same regardless of race. Any “inequality” might result from the quality of attorneys that one can afford.

   BTW: The “black against black” murder rate is a criticism of the media, not to “dismiss” racism. The media fueled the flames of racial division when there was no evidence of racism in the Zimmerman trial. The media showed no concern of the murder rate in the black community, just a “white-Hispanic” killing of a black.

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   • 

     Dawud Walid

     August 2, 2013 at 4:29 PM

     he murder rate of black people against black people is equal to whites killing themselves, latinos killing latinos, etc. That is a red herring argument.

     It’s highly doubtful that Zimmerman would have been following Trayvon if he were white wearing a Lacrosse windbreaker with a hood.

     To say that the justice system is the same for all people has been in practice in the USA. Look at racial profiling, which is a fact. Look at the incarceration rates in which whites use and sell drugs at the same rates they are in society yet do not have the level of enforcement, prosecution and incarceration. I could go on and on. Try reading “The New Jim Crow” written by Ohio St. professor Michelle Alexander. Empirical data doesn’t lie.

     You and I, sir, obviously live in two different worlds.

     May Allah (SWT) have us see truth as the truth and follow it, may He have us see falsehood as falsehood and stay away from it.

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     • 

       gthog61

       August 2, 2013 at 8:19 PM

       Young black males in the US are about 6% of the population but they are responsible for about half the murders. To say the different racial murder rates are anywhere close to similar is absurd.

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       • 

         Dawud Walid

         August 6, 2013 at 9:48 AM

         That’s not what I said. What I said is that according to FBI stats. Blacks primarily kill blacks, and whites are the primary murderers of whites, etc.

         That blacks primarily kill blacks has nothing to do with how non-blacks who shot unarmed blacks are far more likely not to be even charged much less convicted.

         In 2012 every 28 hours, an African-American was extrajudically killed by a cop, security guard or Zimmerman type. There are ridiculous cases of black males who are sitting in back of police cars, who are shot while handcuffed.

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     • 

       charo

       August 2, 2013 at 9:37 PM

       “It’s highly doubtful that Zimmerman would have been following Trayvon if he were white wearing a Lacrosse windbreaker with a hood.”

       Where is your evidence that the particular individual, George Zimmerman, would not likely follow someone acting in the same manner if he were white and wearing a Lacrosse windbreaker? What is there in George Zimmerman’s background to indicate that he treated black members of society differently than whites? Are you aware of factors in his life that dictate against that idea? I would understand, though not necessarily agree, with an argument that he was too paranoid, that he didn’t observe enough suspicious behavior to warrant trying to track Trayvon’s movements as he spoke with the dispatcher (even though tracking someone is not illegal unless there is a history of stalking an individual). How could Zimmerman have known the exact moment when the police were going to arrive (he did ask for the police to be sent)?

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     • 

       Mahmud

       August 3, 2013 at 3:06 AM

       Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

       “It’s highly doubtful that Zimmerman would have been following Trayvon if he were white wearing a Lacrosse windbreaker with a hood.”

       Your doubt is with yourself.

       There is a reason we have judges. If we left it to people to make these decisons like this, we would be in serious trouble. Alhamdulilah, in Islam we don’t leave the decisions like this to the mob.

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       • 

         Dawud Walid

         August 6, 2013 at 9:56 AM

         First of all, I didn’t call for mob rule.

         Second of all, this and other cases are not decided by judges but by juries, juries of people who carry their own biases. The Zimmerman trial was not decided by a judge. Even one of the jurors said that Zimmerman “got away with murder.” Federal civil rights laws are used to step in when based upon judge instructions or bias on juries that people can be tried on the federal level. Rodney King, who was unarmed, was beat like a dog on video, yet those vicious people were acquitted by a state jury. Was that justice?

         Was justice served in the Holy Land Foundation trial and others in which Muslims have been unfairly convicted due to juror convictions by no Muslims and lack of minorities on jurors? Again, you speak as if a juror conviction means justice, which is an absurd proposition.

         Third, statements like “in Islam,” sound very patronizing. That statement infers that I don’t know Islam, which is condescending.

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         • 

           Mahmud

           August 6, 2013 at 5:14 PM

           “Again, you speak as if a juror conviction means justice, which is an absurd proposition.”

           Nope, didn’t say that.

           “It’s highly doubtful that Zimmerman would have been following Trayvon if he were white wearing a Lacrosse windbreaker with a hood.”

           Again, your doubt is with yourself. There is a justice system, and it’s not based on whether you have a bias against a white person or not but on the facts. The jurors were told the full details of the case and did what they were supposed to do.

           I prefer judges as that’s more reasonable.
         • 

           scorpius

           August 7, 2013 at 9:08 PM

           ” Even one of the jurors said that Zimmerman “got away with murder.” ”

           No she didn’t. As William Saletan points out in Slate of all places it was a deceptive edit by ABC.

           http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.single.html
     • 

       Rob

       August 3, 2013 at 11:37 PM

       D.W. you look at a liberals point of view people that started the KKK and still want to divide the people of the U.S.A. Myself as a independent really researched the Muslim religion while I spent 18 months there. There is no seeing of others as equals or hand and hand of other religions. Women are 2nd class citizens if even that high. What you should look at is tolerating others before you expect others to to tolerate you. It was not Christians, Jews, Buddhist, or atheists that did 911. Then to have a mosque suggested to be built in the shadows of the trade towers is absurd. Then we have a President getting in bed with the Muslim brotherhood. I think we would get along much better if Muslims if they had consideration for others and showed remorse like that sorry POS president did on his world wide apology tour. I have many friends I made in Iraq I learned to cook Iraqi food as well other Muslim culinary delights where did this happen of course in Iraq where I met genuine nice people and k assisted in opening of a woman run business.

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       • 

         markibnmark

         August 7, 2013 at 12:03 AM

         I’m not sure what your Fox News talking points have to do with the article or the subject at hand.

         You sound like someone who believes Obama is a secret Muslim. Does the fact that he has intensified the drone attacks in Pakistan and Yemen, many of which have killed women, children, and men not known to be terrorists at all mean anything to you? You say that he went on an “apology tour”, but when and where exactly did his policy differ from the Bush administration’s? Are you upset that he didn’t start a war with Iran or another Middle Eastern country? He might have done that had American troops not been stretched so thin in Iraq and Afghanistan. The myth that Obama is somehow friends with the Muslims is ridiculous considering his policy record. He has done nothing to move toward a two state solution in Palestine, and his policies have only furthered the divide between the U.S. and the Muslim world. We Muslims don’t consider him to be an ally let alone one of us. So why do you?

         And as far as the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque”, how can you say that peaceful Muslims (the overwhelming majority) don’t have the right to build places of worship where they see fit? It wasn’t the Muslims of Lower Manhattan that committed the terrorist attacks on 9/11. They have been there before that tragic event, and will continue to be there. Why punish them?

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       • 

         Syed Ahmed

         August 10, 2013 at 5:36 AM

         Rob, as a muslim I have the right to defend myself, my family, my home and my community from harm. I may choose to help in the protection of my community by volunteering and participating in its crime watch program.

         For me, I do not understand why the two had to resort to violence in the first place. Lets, for the sake of argument, say Zimmerman was a racist and was following Martin for no other reason than that he was black. Martin, angered by being followed approaches Zimmerman and demands ” Why are you following me”? Zimmerman replies: I’m with the community crime watch program and do not recognize you, Who are you and where are you going?

         Now Trayvon Martin could react in one of two ways: 1) By identifying himself and where he was going or 2) Out of anger and frustration throw the first punch. I believe he opted for the second option and that Zimmerman lawful defended his life. The real crime here is the loss of civility and mutual respect.

         Now to your rant about Muslims, 9/11 and religious freedoms guaranteed to all Americans. Before you go flipping off, Syed is my Muslim name. I was born into a Christian family out of Long Island New York in 1952. I have served in the arm forces of my Country and I have seen first hand the loss of innocents so casually referred to as “collateral damage”.. A man steps out of his house to get milk and bread, a Jet screams over head than suddenly a loud blast and he is without a mother, father, wife, and child. Mere collateral damage to us a total and complete loss of family to others.

         To understand the rational of “WHY” Trayvon or those involved in the attacks on Sept 11 2001 acted by no means justifies their actions but are no less important. (Look no further than to our actions in Iraq to understand the “WHY” ) And like Zimmerman we where within our right to protect and defend against further attack.

         Now you as a conservative should read the first amendment and protect and defend it as strongly as you do the 2nd. Freedom of religion encompasses not only Christianity but also Islam.

         Reply
2. 

   CL

   August 2, 2013 at 2:13 PM

   Jazak Allah khair for this insightful article. I am increasingly frustrated by the myopic perspective of many Muslims when it comes to justice. When someone from their country, culture, or language group in under fire, thousands of emails are sent out petitioning the entire community to help, but detatched from them culturally or linguistically, and your problems don’t exist. This is not true for every single Muslim, but I feel comfortable saying that I’ve observed a lot of it in my locale.
   I’ve also seen a level of anti-Black bigotry among Muslims that is absolutely heartbreaking. If I wish to be honest with my children, I have to say, “honey, there’s no racism in Islam, but there’s a lot of racism in the hearts of Muslims.” I am a Black American Muslim. My parents came of age during the Civil Rights Movement. My grandparents and great-grandparents lived through Jim Crow and tiptoed through life hoping to avoid being lynched or suffering a loved one’s lynching. My great-grandparents were the first generation born free; their parents were slaves. Black Americans have fought and died for the civil rights that many foreign-born and American-born Muslims take for granted. At the same time, the same people are oblivious to the fact that they face the very same threats to their civil rights as Black Americans. A violation of the civil rights of ANYONE should shake EVERYONE to the core.
   I know it’s Ramadan, and what I said might sting some people. Wallahi, that is not my intention, so if you found what I said to be offensive, please find it in your heart to forgive me and to ask Allah to forgive and guide me. As a Black American, this entire Trayvon Martin ordeal makes me wonder about the safety of my own son in this country. It makes me wonder if justice would be on my side if I ever needed justice. And the response of many Muslims makes me wonder whether the my community, the women I pray foot-to-foot with, would support me if I ever needed their support in this way. I seek Allah’s protection from any of us ever knowing the answer to those questions.

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   • 

     Allie Farooq

     August 3, 2013 at 12:54 AM

     I would support you 100% we’ve never met..but a sister who stands next to me in prayer..or a sister period..I have their back!
     May Allah give you peace in your heart..
     I understand your worries though..

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   • 

     Zaheer

     August 3, 2013 at 12:24 PM

     As-salaamu ‘alaykum

     At the outset: it is unfortunate that you have witnessed so many incidents of bigotry amongst Muslims. We are commanded to treat all humans with respect, and obviously, we are demanded to love our Muslim brethren. So that type of behavior is not a part of Islam.

     However, and this is a general response to what some have said, rather than a direct response to you(though it does address the overall sentiment of your post) – I think you are conflating racial bigotry with the phenomenon of disproportionate black criminality in U.S.A. You are not unique in this (it’s a popular trend in the left and leftist-dominated media), nor can it be said that you are a detached observer, being black yourself.

     I am neither a citizen of the United States nor have I ever been there, so much of what I say here is based on the media and from my research in related areas. Ignore it if you will but I feel it has a place here (others may disagree…).

     While there is certainly a dislike of black people, culture, etc. prevalent in America, and one cannot completely deny it, I do not think it makes sense to dismiss every incident of black criminality as “racism of the US justice system”. I am not going to start posting stats to prove my point, but for those who want them, they are available everywhere: black criminality is far disproportionate to their population size in the US. Their crimes tend also to be more violent than the criminality of every ethnic group. You cannot claim this entire phenomenon is due to “media/justice system/whitey being racist”. This is simply not true, and worse, it removes the responsibility from those committing the crimes, telling them that “nothing is wrong with you, everything is everybody else’s fault, you are a victim of discrimination” etc, etc. This is dangerous and enabling of degenerate and criminal behavior. Again, I am not accusing you of this, I am just indicating how the type of thinking behind your post and others can lead to this.

     Further, you are also linking Trayvon’s case to Blacks in general being looked-down upon by Muslims. These are two separate issues. I respect all people who deserve respect. Any criminals, murderers, rapists, etc. do not deserve respect. If the large majority of them in a certain country happen to black – so be it. I’m not going to go on a campaign of defending them because I falsely believe their criminal convictions are due to racism. I’m sorry to bring out the “playing the race card” cliche, but really, this is what it is.

     Lastly, I agree with those who have stated that Zimmerman was most likely a very suspicious, unstable and paranoid type of person, which is a big part of what lead to this incident. I do not think racial profiling played as big a part as the media, and those who have unquestionably accepted what they have said, made it out to be. It played a small part, to be sure, and Trayvon’s attack on Zimmerman did the rest. So, contrary to the status quo, Trayvon’s death was a tragedy – not the tragedy of “racism”, but the tragedy of American being unable to effectively deal with the elephant in the room – the elephant of race relations.

     In conclusion, and will all due respect, I do not think Trayvon/Zimmerman is an “Islamic issue”, but an issue with a wider audience – it’s something which is at the core of US internal affairs at present. American Muslims, and particularly Black American Muslims have been trying to paint this as an Islamic issue a bit too hard I think. There is no evidence Trayvon was innocent. The way some speak about it, however, you would think Trayvon was a newborn baby ruthlessly killed by a serial-killer who “white America” didn’t convict. So balance and calmness is required from all sides.

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     • 

       Dawud Walid

       August 6, 2013 at 10:01 AM

       Every issue in American society is an “Islamic issue,” in which Muslims have a vested interest in promoting or coming out against, especially when it’s in the national discourse. Al-Amr bil ma’ruf wan nahy ‘anil munkar is an obligation be it when Muslims are involved or not. This is ‘Aqeedah 101.

       Part of our lack of complete civic engagement in America has to do with compartmentalizing issues, where we look at “Islamic issues” pertaining to Muslims or our ethnic group, while not caring or participating in issues outside with any of our human and/or monetary capital. This is why many view Muslims are outsiders or not true Americans.

       This is a huge problem.

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       • 

         Zaheer

         August 7, 2013 at 2:04 AM

         Salam Dawud,

         This is sort of what I was implying when I put quotes around “Islamic issue”. In theory there shouldn’t be a distinction, but we know there often is. And when one issue out of many is picked upon in general by Islamic scholars/activists, etc, and religious language and rhetoric are used to manipulate people into a certain line-of-thinking, one starts to wonder why.

         I’ve not claimed we shouldn’t care about the Trayvon/Zimmerman issue. In fact, I’m claiming the opposite. However, I suppose I should have chosen my words better: the issue is much wider than just the Islamic perspective. And, in essence, I don’t think there is just one Islamic perspective for this. The Islamic injunction to promote the good, forbid the vice/evil, can really be used to argue either way, as we’ve seen.

         However, from what I’ve read here, and elsewhere, it’s as if it’s a given that the verdict of the trial was unfair, a tragedy, racially, prejudiced, indicative of the white-on-black racism prevalent in America, etc. This is then linked to how black criminality is the fault of this self-same prejudice, etc. etc. etc. and the linking of ideas just gets more contrived as the arguments continue. I feel like this issue is being used to pursue people’s agendas and political beliefs. And, as a Muslim, it’s my religious duty to support this.

         So, I’m saying I disagree with the basic premise of this. Also note I am not an American citizen, nor living in the US, so I won’t comment on whether showing concern/lack of thereof as regards this issue is indicative of the general lack of Muslim participation in American society, whether this a good or bad thing, etc.

         Reply
3. 

   gah

   August 2, 2013 at 6:30 PM

   Muslims have no standing when it comes to criticizing the US’s treatment of minorities. How many Coptic Christians have been killed in Egypt? How many non-Muslims have been killed in Southern Sudan? Christians are under attack in Syria as well. Saudi Arabia and some of the other Gulf countries didn’t outlaw slavery until well into the 20th Century, and Africans continue to be enslaved in some parts of the Arab world. Even in this country there is a great deal of hostility between the Arab and Muslim communities in and around Detroit, and blacks. Blacks have murdered and raped hundreds of Arabs over the years, and some Arabs have taken revenge against them.

   Black males in the US between ages 16 and 30 (approximately 3 percent of the US population) commit about half the violent crimes. Over 90 percent of interracial crimes are black on white. Again, check with the Arab and Muslim communities in Dearborn MI to see how much violence has been directed at them by blacks over the years.

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4. 

   ZAI

   August 3, 2013 at 2:20 PM

   What’s getting lost among many in the media and the general population is that
   Trayvon Martin had a right to defend himself too? I ask my brothers and sisters here who are so
   quick to cite that this trial was about law and going by the book, what about Trayvon’s right to defense? Maybe he was scared out of his mind? How would any of us react if some dude was following us around and no matter how we ducked, tried to cut across yards, and get away he was right there on our backs and finally he got out of his car and you can see he had a gun holstered to his hip? What would be YOUR reaction? He was a 17 year old kid…he was obviously scared. It’s really easy to judge the kid for “attacking first” when he’s not around anymore to defend his actions and what was going through his mind…I would agree that there wasn’t enough to try Zimmerman for murder, but he should have got SOMETHING like manslaughter/reckless endangerment for putting both himself and Martin IN the position for that confrontation…

   There IS an institutional racism involved that simply didn’t afford Martin that benefit of doubt and carried out the LETTER of the law, whereas thousands of black people like Marissa Alexander DON’T have the benefit of that same standard like Zimmerman did…For Muslims, who have also recently been subject to profiling, presumption of guilt and institutionalized injustice not to see this is especially troubling. You know the Islamophobes ALSO use the analogous line that “Muslims have disproportionate violence and terrorism in their community”…

   …as to this disproportionate violence in the black community, how many have thought
   about the fact that they also have disproportionate poverty? The two go together people…and this is something the corporate masters here do not even allow you to say w/o accusing you of “class warfare”. The black community is caught in a vicious cycle of poverty, crime, lack of investment/development that produces poverty and crime, and on and on. Muslims should be WELL AWARE of this correlation given that violence/civil instability is high in poor nations like Pakistan, Egypt, Yemen, etc. whereas Saudi Arabia, UAE, or Kuwait are mighty safe.

   …and it’s only getting WORSE. Welfare is a paltry $200 or so a month. Jobs are scarce and the one’s that are available are low-paying stagnant wage jobs, which corporations like Walmart ensure will not improve( See their recent tantrum about paying higher wages in DC). Incarceration at disproportionate rates for infractions like selling drugs taint one with a criminal record for LIFE, making procuring a job even harder. Education is substandard in poor areas because it’s funded by local property taxes. Stop looking at isolated examples folks…look at the BIG picture to see what’s going on. Every Tea Partyer and Republican will praise affirmative action and shout “halleluejah” at it’s implementation before they want any American to think about what I’ve said about property taxes/education for even one second…because they know THAT is what gives their kids and kids in every rich suburb the REAL advantage and affirmative action is nothing compared to that.

   It’s really easy for many of us who are not black and have ZERO idea of the discrimination and
   challenges they face to quote statistics and offer dry, legalistic and judgemental diatribes about how they should “fix” their problems and “the law is the law” as if it exists in some vaccum. Ok, Muslims…wave our magic tasbih and shout “Muslim countries…be fixed!” and wait for peace & prosperity to arrive. It ain’t easy huh? Because, “yanni, America and Israel and India and the corporations and IMF and and and and..ya akhee they hate the Muslims!” Then WHY are these platitudes and criticisms so easily leveled at the Black community? Gimmie a break.

   Very disappointing to see this coming from Muslims. Like one of the brothers above said, typical attitude of only caring about complexity and big picture justice when it comes to our own community of origin. So why are we always complaining when non-Muslims don’t care about Muslim pain and complexities of our situation then?

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   • 

     RCHOUDH

     August 5, 2013 at 11:10 AM

     Excellent rebuttal brother. It’s extremely disappointing to see some Muslims not understand that many of these issues affecting AA communities in the US are ones we are dealing with too, such as racial profiling. I recently read that 30% of Muslim students in NYC get racially/religiously profiled by the police there, similar to what black and Hispanic kids have to face there too (and what Martin had to deal with prior to his death).

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   • 

     Zaheer

     August 6, 2013 at 4:04 AM

     Salaam,

     You raise quite a few points, and it will be difficult to address them all in brief, so I’ll address what I think is the thrust of your argument.

     Firstly, Trayvon had a right to defend himself. So did Zimmerman. In this case, ZImmerman had a lethal weapon, Trayvon didn’t. Chances are the one without the weapon will come off worse, and that is what happened. I still don’t see how “racism” is to blame for Trayvon dying. You could argue for centuries that he was racially profiled, but there is no evidence of this. That is not to say ZImmerman is not unstable, or deserving of some form of punishment. I just don’t think that race is the only thing involved here.

     You then go on to link this to racism in general against blacks, and how their poverty is the cause of their crime. Or at least a contributing factor. Of course, they play no part in this, poverty being shunted on to them by their white overlords, and of course, crime being the only reasonably recourse. You speak of “paltry” welfare – instead of speaking about how poor blacks should attempt to uplift themselves, to achieve economic freedom, you encourage them to rely more on welfare, if only the amount were greater? You speak of “infractions” like “selling drugs” as if it’s just a minor offense, and how, of course, racism is to blame for why blacks are arrested for this disproportionately. I think that says it all.

     Then, most disturbingly from my POV, you attempt to equate the problems of black poverty and crime with the struggles and suffering of Muslims in other parts of the world. I, for one, am not deluded enough to think that the problems in Muslim countries are due to Yahud/Zionists/Americans. But you may be right, others might think so. They would be in clear error, though. And you don’t see majority of the poor in Muslim countries involved in drug dealing, extreme violence, hijacking, brutal rapes etc. Yes, there are crimes committed in Muslim countries. I, for one, don’t blame discrimination for that but the people committing the crime.

     This is a very large topic – you speak of property taxes but there’s a whole world of a story behind why certain areas have higher property taxes than others. And it’s not “racism”.

     I appreciate the need to condemn discrimination, wherever it occurs, and to whoever. It is hypocritical to only care about fellow Muslims when they are oppressed, and not others.

     However, in the case of American blacks who are prone to criminal behaviour – I have little sympathy for them. Rather, I feel sympathy for the innocent blacks, who never commit crimes, who try to live upright lives, be good community members, but who have to be associated with criminal behaviour because of those who use any excuse to indulge in expression of their lower self, their nafs. I don’t think Trayvon fitted into either of these categories, but, taking a page out of your book, I’m looking at the bigger picture: the bigger picture is that a large proportion of American Blacks have been blaming discrimination for every single one of their problems, without proper self-reflection. And as I said before, that’s not an “Islamic issue”, but an American issue on race relations.

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     • 

       ZAI

       August 6, 2013 at 6:41 AM

       Wa Salaam…

       “You could argue for centuries that he was racially profiled, but there is no evidence of this.”

       There is no evidence he did not either, so to say he wasn’t is just as much conjecture as saying he was. He was definitely profiled as a criminal though and the question is “why” and it’s valid. I agree there is no evidence to convict him of murder, but to say Blacks have NO reason to discuss even the possibility of race playing a part in the case is unfair. Why he was a profiled is a VALID question and they have every right to ask it.

       ” That is not to say ZImmerman is not unstable, or deserving of some form of punishment. I just don’t think that race is the only thing involved here.”

       It is not the only thing involved and it might be true that it’s not involved at all..only Zimmerman and his Lord know. Why he was profiled at all is a valid question though, as is why Zimmerman directly disobeyed law enforcement
       requests to stay in his car and call off his pursuit.

       “You then go on to link this to racism in general against blacks, and how their poverty is the cause of their crime. Or at least a contributing factor.”

       Poverty is a contributing factor to crime. It does not mean all poor people
       will engage in it, infact most don’t…including MOST Blacks. But to deny that
       systematic poverty contributes to SOME people turning to crime is folly. It is a
       reality. That’s not an excuse, but an observation.

       “Of course, they play no part in this, poverty being shunted on to them by their white overlords, and of course, crime being the only reasonably recourse. ”

       I have not said this. It is however undeniable that there is a correlation.
       That’s simply a matter of fact. To combat that correlation would require
       fixing BOTH external and internal realities. Is this not why Islam also has both any external and internal dimension?

       “You speak of “paltry” welfare – instead of speaking about how poor blacks should attempt to uplift themselves, to achieve economic freedom, you encourage them to rely more on welfare,”

       I have nowhere in my writing encouraged living on welfare.
       What I did do was point out that the propaganda that many Republicans and Tea Party types broadcast, that “lazy” or “criminal” people are living on welfare, is ridiculous because no one can live reasonably on welfare. It is simply not possible in modern America. That is simply a populist trope to fire up a certain voting base and achieve certain ideological gains like keeping the minimum wage low, slashing all types of social programs for the needy, etc.

       “You speak of “infractions” like “selling drugs” as if it’s just a minor offense”

       I did not say it is a minor offense. An an infraction is an infraction, It can be qualified by any adjective and I did not choose to assign it one.

       “how, of course, racism is to blame for why blacks are arrested for this disproportionately.”

       They ARE disproportionately arrested and incarcerated for it.
       If you are fond of statistics, then please read “The New Jim Crow”. It is nothing
       BUT statistics cover to cover. Sorry to break the news to you brother, but both sale of drugs and their consumption is proportionally higher in rich suburbs. Why aren’t they in jail? Why do they get lighter sentences even in the rare instance of arrest?

       “Then, most disturbingly from my POV, you attempt to equate the problems of black poverty and crime with the struggles and suffering of Muslims in other parts of the world.”

       I am not equating the specific problems although they are sometimes similar, but I AM equating the lack of looking at these issues and problems as being COMPLEX. Whether here or in the Muslim world…or anywhere for that matter…things are not starkly manichean or plainly dichotomous. There are no simple solutions either. It requires a thorough and holistic analysis and solution/s. If it’s simple for American Blacks, it should also be simple for Muslims back east, right?

       ” I, for one, am not deluded enough to think that the problems in Muslim countries are due to Yahud/Zionists/Americans. But you may be right, others might think so. They would be in clear error, though.”

       Yes, they are in error…but in many cases not COMPLETELY in error. The hypocrisy is when some Muslims think their problems are complex but others aren’t. External realities ARE realities many times…but the admission of that complexity must be extended to everyone. There has to be a standard or no standard at all. Exceptions in this regard are hypocrisy and bias.

       ” And you don’t see majority of the poor in Muslim countries involved in drug dealing”

       #1 Are the MAJORITY of poor Blacks involved in drug dealing?
       …and isn’t my Afghan homeland the kingdom of heroin?

       “extreme violence”

       Again, majority of American Blacks are not either.
       Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Yemen devoid of extreme violence brother?

       ” hijacking”

       Our bad apples hijack planes…not cars. True

       “brutal rapes”

       Have you seen the rape statistics of certain Muslim countries?
       Have you read how many women are harassed and molested, in Egypt
       for instance? Secondly, keep in mind many women don’t report the crimes
       out of fear of socio-economic stigma.

       “Yes, there are crimes committed in Muslim countries. I, for one, don’t blame discrimination for that but the people committing the crime”

       Yes, I agree it is the individual who should be blamed.
       But it can be remedied to some degree with alleviation of poverty and
       complexities and nuances pointed out in ALL cases. What is intolerable is the
       hypocrisy of allowing complexities and nuance for ourselves, but not for others. Further, to deny environment has any affect on behavior is ludicrous. Didn’t Umar(r) suspend the punishment for theft during a drought brother?
       None of this means you excuse the crime, but it does mean we should reflect deeply on how crime can be lessened…and it’s NOT as easy as saying Blacks should work harder and simply look at themselves as if they are existing in a vaccum.

       “This is a very large topic – you speak of property taxes but there’s a whole world of a story behind why certain areas have higher property taxes than others. And it’s not “racism”.”

       i did not say racism results in higher property taxes. I said richer neighborhoods have better school funding because higher property taxes make that possible. That is simply a fact. Right here in Chicago, where I am, the city is firing teachers and slashing budgets…up in Wilmette(rich suburb), they are giving every kid a free iPad. Using local property taxes to fund education indirectly produces defacto segregation because most minorities live in cities. You can test this for yourself: Go to a local school board meeting in a rich suburb and suggest that school funding should come from one collective state pot distributed equally and watch the reaction it will incur.

       “However, in the case of American blacks who are prone to criminal behaviour”

       Are you saying American Blacks are prone to criminal behavior innately?
       …and what crime was Trayvon in the middle of when Zimmeran followed and confronted him?

       “I feel sympathy for the innocent blacks, who never commit crimes, who try to live upright lives, be good community members, but who have to be associated with criminal behaviour because of those who use any excuse to indulge in expression of their lower self, their nafs”

       The onus is on people to not discriminate against innocent blacks through racist generalizations and biases. It is NOT the job of innocent Blacks to be made unofficial representatives of their communities. That is the very essence of racist profiling. The same unwarranted expectations put on the vast majority of innocent Muslims.

       ”
       the bigger picture is that a large proportion of American Blacks have been blaming discrimination for every single one of their problems, without proper self-reflection”

       Many of them do. You are correct. But there ARE also systematic and external problems as well…and they are valid. For instance, please read about researchers who tried to rent apartments or interview for a job with “Black sounding” names. To deny externalities completely is ridiculous and even more ridiculous to expect change through simple platitudes. Again, even Islam has an inner AND outer dimension brother.

       Reply
5. 

   matt

   August 4, 2013 at 7:47 AM

   “To highlight this, a Black woman named Marissa Alexander is currently serving 20 years in a Florida prison for standing her ground while firing a warning shot to scare off her abusive husband. Of course, this is the American norm to me of our system though may seem as abnormal to others.”

   You mean the woman that left the scene and returned with a gun and fired at the man with his 2 kids in the house and it ricocheted into the ceiling, endangering all of them. Not to mention he is the one that called 911 not her. The same woman that turned down a 3yr plea deal? Maybe we should be looking at the 10-20-life law instead of spreading racism.

   Reply
6. 

   RCHOUDH

   August 4, 2013 at 11:16 AM

   Great article Mash’Allah and you make some some salient points. This should be a worthwhile read, particularly for Muslims who have immigrated to America and are largely unaware and ignorant of how much racism has both shaped, and continues to shape, American society.

   Reply
7. 

   Safiya Baker

   August 4, 2013 at 5:41 PM

   Blacks are not the primary killers of others. That is a lie and a racist statement. Whites, worldwide have killed millions of human beings, animals, plants, etc. with wars and weapons of mass destruction. Yes, black kill other blacks and have many issues, however, we are not the PRIMARY people killing in this world or in this country. I pray that Allah guides the black people back to Islam and heals them from their sicknesses or the mind and heart. I pray that Allah helps blacks to turn away from the evil music and calls of shaytan and take their true positions in this world as decent respectable people as we once were. Blacks are all over the ancient world, asia, Africa, Americas, Europe, etc. But that history has been hidden and forgotten. Now we are sometimes the lowest of the low. Only Islam can save black. Whites in general as a people love killing. Since there appearance in central Europe they have been conquering and killing and ravaging the land. Now they have their eye on the Muslim world. They are also VERY unjust to non-whites all over the world. Their continued killings and injustices must not be sympathized with. May Allah guide them.

   Reply
8. 

   Kyle

   August 19, 2013 at 8:46 PM

   Asa bro Dawud and thank you for sharing this insight. You and I have both been Muslim for 20 years or more. Nothing is more painful than sharing an insight like the one above with others in the Muslim community only to get the kind of silly, racist replies in this thread. I assume that some of the folks responding are themselves Muslims… at least in terms of their name and religious label. The acquittal of Zimmerman, as tragic as it is, has revealed some clear fault lines in the Muslim community in terms of race. It makes me think of the last interview of Malcolm X in Al Muslimun Magazine in Feb 1965. He assailed the immigrant Muslim community for their aspirations of whiteness and pathetic lack of a social analysis regarding race. This has led me to more boldly lay the gauntlet down in from of those who have migrated to America and who have made no substantive contribution to the nation except to get middle class jobs and live quietly in the suburbs, bolsters racism and white supremacy all the while. The arguments above have long been debunked by even the most lukewarm theories of american sociology. Knowing the low level of social and intellectual development present in many circles of the Muslim community, it still pains me to hear utter stupidity given voice. In any case, I should leave this comment by thanking you for sharing the thought, for continuing the work of civil rights on behalf of Muslims, and for having the fortitude to weather the sheer lack of intelligence on the part of many who call themselves Muslims yet have neither a merciful lens nor sense of the great model of the Prophet (s) that should be the model for us as broad-minded, peaceful, and sensible human beings. Your brother,
   – Kyle J. Isma’il

   Reply
9. 

   BestonAb

   October 30, 2013 at 3:36 PM

   My only take on this issue is this, simply put, most people who followed the George Zimmerman trial, had already formed an opinion about who was at fault when the incident first happened. And that is the problem in America. Most often, people decide which side they’ll support in the first moments that they hear about it, often based on sketchy details. The problem with that is, what one lacks in detail or information, one will replace with assumptions. Additionally, those assumptions will tend to be biased. Which is why most Blacks tend to side with the Black party and Whites tend to side with the White party. By the trail, people have become so emotionally vested that it’s too late if not impossible to change their minds. Inevitably, the story becomes about Race. At that point, neither the truth matters nor the law. The only thing on people’s mind is which side will win?

   Reply