Marriage
Weddings: To Separate Or Not To Separate?
Shadi season is just around the corner, and many practicing Muslim families will be asking themselves whether or not they should fully separate their wedding parties with a partition or have it open with men and women either seated side to side or mixed.
I found a story written from www.themuslimhousewife.com about this issue with a personal story unlike any I had ever heard before. It also includes a cameo by Shaykh Yasir Qadhi, and is posted in full here, followed by my thoughts.
Lessons From My Wedding
By The Muslim HousewifeAs summer comes near so do the abundance of weddings! I thought it would be most appropriate to write a post about lessons I learned from my own wedding. I hope this post will be beneficial for those getting married this summer, and for those who will get married in the future.I will have to admit that writing this post means revisiting a really hard time in my life, but inshallah I think it will be beneficial to share my thoughts and experiences.
I had a typical Desi wedding. Bride and Groom center stage. Men on one side, women on the other. Nice decoration, good food. It was a day that my family and I prepared for so much, but only lasted a few mere hours. As most brides, I was center (literally) of attention that day. All decked out, dupatta on the head, adorned with jewelry and all fancied up. I was there, propped up on stage next to my newly wed for the world to see, men included. At the time it seemed like such a blissful moment.
Few months into my marriage I started experiencing out of the ordinary headaches, headaches that would not go away with any type of medication. I had always been a healthy girl with no health problems, the only thing that changed in my life was that fact that I was married. The headaches continued and seemed to come more often. I saw all types of doctors and had all types of tests, none of which could figure out what the problem was. I was perfectly healthy. Eventually doctors stamped my case as migraines. Let’s just say I didn’t buy it.
We thought the best thing to do would be to see a Sheikh. We went to someone very close to my husband, he had known this Sheikh for years before we got married. As we told the Sheikh the story, he diagnosed me as having hasad (jealously/envy). He said I most likely got hasad at the time of my wedding. When he said that, I thought back to my wedding day, my heart sunk to my stomach. That day did not seem as blissful anymore.
The Prophet, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, warned Muslims against envy when he said “Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shapes. I do not say it shapes the hair but it shapes the religion. By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves.”
[Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]To confirm that I did have hasad inflicted upon me we saw various Shuyukh, including our dear Sh. Yasir Qadhi, who confirmed that I had hasad done on me. I went through years of unbearable physical pain, and all because of that one day that lasted a few hours. I ask Allah SWT to forgive me for being ignorant at the time.
My dear sisters, there is a lesson to be learned from my situation. I have not shared a personal story with you all so you would know of a person who had gone through hasad. I want those soon to be brides to realize that it is ok to celebrate a joyous event such as your wedding, but remember it is also very important to abide by Islamic rules and regulations during these occasions. I speak to myself before others when I say, there is no reason to display a bride, center stage, especially in front of men. I feel the best thing to do at functions such as these is to have a full partition. And even then I believe the best thing to do is have the bride sit at the same level as her guests. Moreover, don’t go overboard in anything you do that day, for Allah forbids israaf (being extravagant).
Alhumdulilah I am cured, and subhanallah have no more strange headaches. Allah knows best as to why and how this happened to me. It may have been a lesson that I and others hearing my story would learn from. Remember sisters, it is important to be cautious at the time of your wedding. Pay special attention in making sure your wedding meets Islamic guidelines and also remember to recite Ayat ul Kursi, Surah Al Falaq, Surah An Nas, and Surah Ikhlas before you go to bed, or better yet after every salah. For indeed this is the ultimate protection.
I ask Allah SWT, the ultimate protector, to keep us far, far away from hasad and seher. Ameen.
The reason why this story was so striking to me was because it illustrated a reason to separate ones wedding beyond the normal ones we hear of, hasad.
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Hasad, also known in Urdu as nazr, is a very serious ordeal. When a person is struck with it, it can be difficult to identify, deal with, or maybe even remove. Many of us are familiar with stories of hasad, and maybe can even recall personal instances from beck home of being affected by it.
In regards to a wedding party, hasad is not the sole reason to separate one’s wedding and by doing so will not guarantee someone from all possible harm. Women in the women’s section can still give hasad, and same applies over on the men’s side. This story is meant to be an additional supporting reason for having a separated party for the primary reason, immodesty.
In our communities, going to weddings means dressing one’s “shadi best.” Unfortunately, this means dressing unIslamically and immodestly, and when the wedding isn’t separated, it opens up the door to improper mixing. Why should we allow it to happen more easily? Sure, we can’t enforce hijab and feelings of modesty on any sole individual or prevent our friend’s daughters from showing up in sleeveless shalwar kameezes, but we can certainly prevent much of the mixing that goes on when it comes time for us to host a wedding party.
Also, why are we so quick to display the bride to hundreds of guests without any qualms? In one walima party I went to, the groom’s male cousin was chosen to give a speech in which he said, “I had always heard that your wife was pretty, but I never knew she was this beautiful.” Fathers, brothers, and husbands, we need to ask ourselves: Is this what we want for our communities’ daughters?
In the end, one can argue that even if one were to separate their wedding party, illicit gazes and hasad can still occur in some nook or cranny of the event. But it’s not an “all or nothing” type goal. It’s about doing the best you can.
Weddings are a big ordeal for all of us, and we all want things to be just right. After all, it’s “just one day.” If your family is not sure on whether to separate your party of not, perhaps it would be best to consider the reasons mentioned when making your decision for the big day. If it’s “just one day,” then best we do that day right.
We ask Allah (swt) to help us run our weddings in ways that please Him and not in ways that may harbor His displeasure.
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Mezba
May 22, 2008 at 10:41 AM
This article and the post linked doesn’t make any logical sense to me. Are you saying a ‘mixed’ gathering will endanger the bride as people will be jealous of her, but in a segregated women’s only gathering, the other women will NOT be jealous of her? Then the only sure way of protecting the bride from “hasad” is to have her in a all covering burkha.
Why not have a gathering and those ladies who want to be separated from men sit by themselves at a table and those who want to sit with their family (which includes men) because they may not know any one else sit at a table too. What’s wrong with choice and why do we have to IMPOSE choice on other people?
hassan mudasir
May 21, 2009 at 7:21 AM
you are atypical womwn who is using her western values to change alter islamic beliefs for your yes your own good so u feel good when going to weddings. In isalam men & women must be separated,thats all. dont like it, convert to christianity and wear a skirt to a wedding and live by YOUR CHOICE of what to waer and where to sit.
Moderate Muslim
September 15, 2012 at 2:35 PM
You’re an idiot Hassan. It’s people like you that give Islam a bad name, not Mezba. Your disrespect towards another for voicing their opinion in a peaceful manner is a disgrace to all Muslims and Islam. May Allah give you guidance on how to be a better human being.
Elena
July 12, 2016 at 8:51 PM
Could not agree more,
Bim
March 14, 2018 at 8:27 AM
Pls provide the quranic backing for the separation of genders in everyday life ?
haris
July 6, 2014 at 2:10 AM
it not due to hasad, its due to hijaab. In this story hasad become source for this woman to realize that always at least try to obey Allah.
whawha
May 22, 2008 at 10:50 AM
As Salaam Alaikum,
Anyone could be jealous of anyone at any time or point in their life.
She blames that she got “hasad” because she had a mixed gender wedding, but what does “hasad” have to do with that? Or does she really think that her husband looked so good, or she looked so good, that people were jealous? Does this not sound quite vain?
I think that having a gender seperated wedding or not, depends solely on the family. If men and women would like to seperate themselves, then allow them to. But don’t seperate other families and even friends a part because of other peopel’s inability to control themselves. And in this day of age, there are far too many Muslims who believe that men and women cannot control themselves.
God has given you the commandment to lower your gaze (and looking at someone does not translate into a “gaze”). If God’s commandment is not enough for you, then you have bigger issues to worry about than if men and women should seperate themselves.
salaam
layla
September 15, 2012 at 8:00 PM
Never mind the fact that even if she had a gender seperated wedding and she sat on the floor there are still going to be jealous women around. Perhaps we shouldn’t have weddings at all, instead finsih everything with just minimum no. of witnesses and a clandestine trip to the registry office
Shirtman
May 22, 2008 at 10:52 AM
I think it is an excellent topic for an article. This is real in Islam. I must say, however, that I agree with Mezba that usually it is the women who are envious and are giving the hasad or the nazr. Men usually think “well I need to get a girl like that to mary”, even non Muslims know this, but women think “I need THAT GUY to marry”. Women are very jealous by their nature, and we see that they get jealous of even the smallest things, so wouldn’t they be jealous of like you stated the clothes, party, and especially a “nice find” of the groom.
The protection is with the Qur’an, period.
Thank you for this post!
Fighting the Patriarchy
May 22, 2016 at 3:27 PM
“Women are very jealous by their nature, and we see that they get jealous of even the smallest things, so wouldnโt they be jealous of like you stated the clothes, party, and especially a โnice findโ of the groom.”
How incredibly misogynistic.
MR
May 22, 2008 at 11:14 AM
Hasad can come in any shape and form. What if someone has hasad for the person who follows the Qur’an and Sunnah 100% in their wedding or in something else. There can be hasad there.
This is the fitna from Allah (swt) that we Muslims have to persevere using the Quran to fight back and attack the hasad and ultimately defeat it.
May Allah (swt) make us people of the Qur’an! Ameen!
Sara
May 22, 2008 at 11:25 AM
OK will someone explain this to me? I mean that sincerely, I really don’t understand. Someone’s jealousy has the potential to cause physical pain to the other person? I am very curious.
SaqibSaab
May 22, 2008 at 12:25 PM
It goes back to what the host family is comfortable with. It’s an invitation. No one’s imposing you to show up. :P
The issue with weddings, at least within the American Muslim (and particularly the Desi) atmosphere, is there is a lot more going on than just looks. There is the hall setup, there is the clothing, the flower arrangements, the appetizers, etc. All these things have become such big ordeals for our communities that the expectations for who’s doing or having what at their wedding becomes a little unhealthy.
Going back to this topic, separating one’s wedding is not the end-all solution to eliminate every problem that may arise from a wedding party. However, there is a big problem with the lack of modesty that comes from some of us in our weddings. A Muslim sister wears hijab 24/7, but when it comes to her shadi day, in comes the “dulhan style” duputta, neck and top of chest completely exposed beneath a face worthy of a magazine shoot.
The Prophet (SAW) said a branch of Eman is modesty. He also said if you feel no shame, then do as you wish. We ask Allah (swt) to protect us.
As for the sister, I don’t think it was vanity, but rather a reflection from what some shuyukh and students of knowledge had advised her on. Best to have good opinions of others! :) And Allah knows best.
mcpagal
May 22, 2008 at 12:38 PM
I’m confused too – even if the wedding had been 100% segregated, surely the sister could still have had ‘nazr’ put on her by other women? After all, a normal man isn’t going to look at a woman and say ‘I’m so jealous of her, I wish I looked as good as her, etc etc’. It’s more likely that a woman would do that. If a man was jealous, it would be of her husband, in which case he’d be the one with migraines?
So realistically the only way of avoiding this situation would have been to have the bride wearing something unattractive, perhaps with her face covered even in front of women. Or else have a tiny nikah with no extraneous guests.
Anyway, I thought for ‘nazr’ to occur, there had to be some malice intended as well as jealousy/envy? So really, you could ensure that you only invite close family and friends who would never wish you harm – small weddings are nicer anyway :)
I understand there are many arguments for weddings to be segregated, but I don’t think the possibility of nazr happening is really one of them. That would be a good argument for being more modest in the whole wedding event.
Suhail
May 22, 2008 at 12:47 PM
The most important part people are missing here is that mixed gender meetings are not allowed in Islam. In the wedding women who wear hijab will come with dresses which they should not wear. It is clearly forbidden in Islam to have a mixed gender wedding where men and women are mixing freely. Sorry to say but these days muslims are running away from modesty and embracing the immoral practices just to fulfill there desires. There is no other way to explain this moral decay among the muslim other than immorality and lack of devotion to Allah((SWT). Fear Allah of Muslims for one day you will be resurrected and judged for what you did.
Ahmad AlFarsi
May 22, 2008 at 12:57 PM
I can answer to the title question: To separate. Pretty easy choice, alhamdulillah, since one is halal and one is not :) .
SaqibSaab
May 22, 2008 at 12:59 PM
mcpagal, you’re right. I meant to say the hasad/nazr thing is more of a supporting reason for the primary reason, immodesty and free mixing, but couldn’t quite get the words out right. That’s why I like comments and discussion, so thanks to all the others, too. :P I edited what I wrote and you can read it. JazakAllah khair.
AnonyMouse
May 22, 2008 at 1:02 PM
I’m inclined to agree with McPagal… as important as it is to segregate gatherings, incl/esp. weddings, I don’t think the risk of hasad or al-ayn is one of the reasons behind it. Really, any time you have people gathered together, and there’s a lack of taqwa, you run the risk of being the victim of hasad/ al-ayn/ sihr… it all comes down to not having strong enough emaan to love for your brother/ sister what you love for yourself, and sincerely so that you’re not giving off envious vibes (if that’s the right way to describe it!).
Sunie
May 22, 2008 at 1:16 PM
I am surprised that people have some problems with this post, although I appreciate their insight and hope for their sincerety. I personally found the benifit in this reminder very straight forward and the message well understood. It is simply pointing to the “higher” risk in non segregated weddings from the evil of envy.
Shirtman
May 22, 2008 at 1:28 PM
Is mixing really haraam?
(1) Narrated Anas bin Malik: My grandmother Mulaika invited Allah’s Apostle for a meal which she had prepared specially for him. He ate some of it and said, “Get up. I shall lead you in the prayer.” I brought a mat that had become black owing to excessive use and I sprinkled water on it. Allah’s Apostle stood on it and prayed two Rakat; and the orphan was with me (in the first row), and the old lady stood behind us. (Book #12, Hadith #819)
Bukhari-
You might site the Usool al Fiqh , (Principle in Islamic Jurisprudence) – Blocking the means – but does that mean you prohibit what Allah has made lawful by the action of the Prophet(Saw)?
Food for thought.
haris
July 6, 2014 at 2:17 AM
for now discussion is about function not a private meeting at home.
ibnabeeomar
May 22, 2008 at 1:34 PM
shaykh shirtman,
but what about when the men and women of our times do not display the same etiquettes as then? ie the women now do NOT cover like they did. also, one question that i have always had in this regard is that despite the fact they did not have ‘barriers’ to what extent did the men and women communicate freely? and by communicate here i do not mean religious discussion or education, but rather free and social discussion that normally takes place in our environments?
jazakallahu khayr :)
also if we agree that its blocking the means, but don’t declare it haram (and i don’t think the author, saqib, did) then could we agree its a better practice to separate in this situation?
Atif
May 22, 2008 at 1:36 PM
It seems that due to the men being able to look at the bride, there was
1. Less blessings in the event because of haraam being allowed.
2. Men were feeling jealous about the bride; that why does the groom have a such a nice bride, and “why don’t I have one”, etc.
These 2 factors contributed to harm caused to the bride.
But I do agree that separation will not prevent envy, and nor should that be the intention of separation. The intention for separation should be to obey Allah!
So I believe what SaqibSaab was trying to say was that if we fear and obey Allah, we will be protecting ourselves from harmful effects in the dunya (and not just the afterlife). It can be proven from texts in the Quran and Sunnah that disobedience to Allah does indeed increase difficulties in a person’s life here and now.
Allah knows best.
Shirtman
May 22, 2008 at 1:49 PM
Shaykh Ibn,
I am glad to hear from you :).
I would also like to bring up that alot of people go to weddings to FIND A MATE , ;). Whether or not this is the best practice, it does work and people do get married.
Evidence below on looking for the reason of marriage.
Bukhari :: Book 7 :: Volume 62 :: Hadith 58
Narrated Sahl bin Sad:
A woman came to Allah’s Apostle and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! I have come to you to present myself to you (for marriage).” Allah’s Apostle glanced at her. He looked at her carefully and fixed his glance on her and then lowered his head. When the lady saw that he did not say anything, she sat down. A man from his companions got up and said, “O Allah’s Apostle! If you are not in need of her, then marry her to me.” The Prophet said, “Have you got anything to offer.” The man said, ‘No, by Allah, O Allah’s Apostle!” The Prophet said (to him), “Go to your family and try to find something.” So the man went and returned, saying, “No, by Allah, O Allah’s Apostle! I have not found anything.” The Prophet said, “Go again and look for something, even if it were an iron ring.” He went and returned, saying, “No, by Allah, O Allah’s Apostle! I could not find even an iron ring, but this is my Izar (waist sheet).’ He had no Rida (upper garment). He added, “I give half of it to her.” Allah’s Apostle said “What will she do with your Izar? If you wear it, she will have nothing over herself thereof (will be naked); and if she wears it, then you will have nothing over yourself thereof ‘ So the man sat for a long period and then got up (to leave). When Allah’s Apostle saw him leaving, he ordered that he e called back. When he came, the Prophet asked (him), “How much of the Qur’an do you know (by heart)?” The man replied, I know such Sura and such Sura and such Sura,” naming the suras. The Prophet said, “Can you recite it by heart?” He said, ‘Yes.” The Prophet said, “Go I let you marry her for what you know of the Quran (as her Mahr).
Another point that Shakh Ibn made is the ettiquete of our pious predecessors. You will see that even they were dressed to impress when it came time for marraige.
Evidence below:
Muslim :: Book 9 : Hadith 3536
‘Ubaidullah b. ‘Abdullah b. ‘Utba (b. Mas’ud) reported that his father wrote to Umar b. ‘Abdullah b al Arqam al-Zuhri that he would go to Subai’ah bint al-Hirith al-Aslamiyya (Allah be pleased with her) and ask her about a verdict from him which Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) gave her when she had asked that from him (in regard to the termination of ‘Idda at the birth of a child) ‘Umar b. Abdullah wrote to ‘Abdullah b. ‘Utba informing him that Subai’ah had told him that she had been married to Sa’d b. Khaula and he belonged to the tribe of Amir b. Lu’ayy, and was one of those who participated in the Battle of Badr, and he died in the Farewell Pilgrimage and she had been in the family way at that time. And much time had not elapsed that she gave birth to a child after his death and when she was free from the effects of childbirth she embellished herself for those who had to give proposals of marriage. Abd al-Sunabil b. Ba’kak (from Banu ‘Abd al-Dar) came to her and said: What is this that I see you embellished; perhaps you are inclined to marry, By Allah, you cannot marry unless four months and ten days (of ‘Idda are passed). When he said that. I dressed myself, and as it was evening I came to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and asked him about it, and he gave me a religious verdict that I was allowed to marry when I had given birth to a child and asked me to marry if I so liked. Ibn Shihab said: I do not find any harm fur her in marrying when she has given birth to a child even when she is bleeding (after the birth of the child) except that her husband should not go near her until she is purified.
More food for thought my old friend
BarakAllahfeekum!
Hombre de Camista
ibnabeeomar
May 22, 2008 at 1:54 PM
well if everyone that attended a wedding was single and intending to get married – i might agree with you :)
Faiez
May 22, 2008 at 2:17 PM
Worst….joke….ever….
I don’t think the kid knew any better. It’s a good thing the groom is a patient fellow.
SaqibSaab
May 22, 2008 at 2:35 PM
Faiez, you know who I think knew better. The Pakistani band lead singer with the long ponytail. That guy was awesome! May Allah (swt) bless that groom…
Siraaj Muhammad
May 22, 2008 at 2:56 PM
The connection between the hasad and the event isn’t simply that one can see the bride – it’s the whole package. Part of the emphasis of the sisters post was the event itself, and then herself as well. Taken in context, here’s this sister with this amazing shaadi, and now there she is, with Allah knows best how many guests (who are struggling to get married, see other posts on this site) primed and ready to flash a few hairy evil eyes at the bride, on display.
I don’t think what was meant was being on display by itself – I think it’s being on display in the typical extravagant shaadi. Adding the mixing and men viewing just makes it worse. The proposed solution was:
1. Quit the extravagant wedding
2. Don’t rob the blessings from your nikaah by having every man have a view of your wife (or for that matter a view of your husband and becoming jealous of you even more).
3. Keep the bride herself humble in her presentation (none of this platform elevating and so forth).
That’s what I read, don’t know about everyone else.
Siraaj
Faiez
May 22, 2008 at 3:04 PM
Oh right, the one that was blasting into my ear right next to my table.
Asim
May 22, 2008 at 3:16 PM
While this article is well written, the Hasad angle is a needless digression. It is abomination enough that women should be in front of unrelated men while wearing their nicest clothes, jewelry and makeup.
Allah created women with a natural inclination towards adornment, and things like gold and silk were made Halal for them and not for men. The problem is not that women want to dress up for wedding ceremonies, but that there is no partition or segregation between them and non-mahram males. The answer is not to force women to keep thier jilbabs, etc., on throughout the party, but to create a space where they can celebrate a wedding with all their beautification and adornment, without having strange men see them in that state of adornment.
Another thing that is worthy of being mentioned is that photography should be discouraged in our weddings and other such events, regardless of what scholarly opinion one follows about the permissibility (or otherwise) of photograhic images. The problem is not so much the technical ruling on the digital or analog, still or movie image, but the fact that wedding pictures, once taken, are made into albums and circulated throughout the social circle of the bride and groom’s family. Thus, men and women again end up looking at images of ghayr-mahrams for no justifiable need. It is sad that even some religiously conservative folks have become very lax about this issue and try to get out of it by the Fiqahi hair-splitting route (“but digital images are ruled permissible by many scholars!”), forgetting how their sisters and daughters are gazed upon via the medium of photos by countless strange men.
Muslimah
May 22, 2008 at 3:31 PM
Assalamualaykum
Personally knowing and seeing the effects of what happened to the sister in the story mentioned above, the effects of Hasad on a person is SCARY. Her migranes were so severe that at times she felt that she would die from the pain and there was nothing anyone could do to help her. Going from being healthy all your life, and then suddenly becoming trapped by migranes that run your life with no scientific explanaition, a person is bound to think, Why is this happening to me? Where did i go wrong?
Sometimes the first place to look is at your sins. When have you disobeyed Allah…
Having a mixed and luxurious wedding (israf) are all sinful acts.
One protects themselves by obeying Allahs commands, reciting their adkaar, etc
On the ongoing debate of whether it is a man or woman is more likely to give the bride hasad, I think we should all stop and examine the more important question. What sins have we commited?
May Allah protect Us All
May we all be able to pass our tests
Charles
May 22, 2008 at 4:23 PM
On whether or not hasad was caused by the mixed wedding, you might read “The Old Man and the White Horse” at http://www.geocities.com/cpn004/
Faiez
May 22, 2008 at 4:37 PM
I really don’t see how it is needless. Any angle which helps the individual to see the wrong that they are in is needed. Usually, as is the case in this story, when people see direct physical harm they are less likely to do the action.
Shirtman
May 22, 2008 at 4:37 PM
A thought on Israf ( Extravagance)
Extravagance is subjective to the means of the invididual and so is stinginess.
A rich person buying a new toyota is no problem, but a poor man buying the same car could be deemed as extravagance if for example his family does not have money for rent or for food.
In the same light a rich person who is making his family wear clothes that are too small like they have outgrown them, but he afford new clothes would be considered stingy according to the community.
Hombre de camista
Asim
May 22, 2008 at 4:56 PM
Faiez,
I think it takes away from the *impact* of the main argument of the article: Tabarruj. People can rationalize away the Hasad angle, or get caught up in thinking that such cases of the evil eye are not a common occurence, but it is very hard to argue that tabarruj will not happen in the absence of separate spaces for the men and women in a party. That is all.
However, I concede that you are totally correct in saying that if any consideration or reason makes a person stop sinning, then there is value in it.
Wassalam.
SaqibSaab
May 22, 2008 at 5:08 PM
One of the major reasons the hasad angle struck me to begin with was because it was a different. Unfortunately, mixing is “not a big deal” to Muslims nowadays. Hasad and nazr on the other hand, people tend to be really scared of it.
Mur
May 22, 2008 at 5:20 PM
This article would’ve suited better in the 15th century when people believed that small pox and fevers were caused by demons and witchcraft.
Honestly, does anyone really believe that *jealousy* would cause medical problems? The evil eye as an acceptable explanation in the 21st century when we know so much more about medicine? How can anyone be so naive.
MR
May 22, 2008 at 5:22 PM
The solution: make yourself look ugly!
ibnabeeomar
May 22, 2008 at 5:58 PM
mur: or one could ask, how can anyone be so arrogant as to reject what their Creator has informed them to be true? :)
inexplicabletimelessness
May 22, 2008 at 7:05 PM
As salamu alaikum
What is the main reason Muslims segregate at weddings? What is the main reason modesty is prescribed in Islam? What is the main reason we don’t eat pork? What is the main reason we pray 5 times a day and not 10? What is the main reason we give 2.5% zakah and not 3.9%?
SIMPLE: Because Allah said so.
There is sweetness in this ‘uboodiyah–state of worship to Allah–and we do it for Allah’s pleasure because Allah deserves to be worshipped and obeyed. He is the Creator, Sustainer, Maintainer, Owner!
Sure, there might be wisdoms behind it which we see later such as hasad, scientific evidence, etc. but that isn’t the main reason.
I already assumed the author knew the above so I thought it was a good article emphasizing one of the negative results which may occur from not obeying Allah (swt).
Allahu ‘alam
Faiez
May 22, 2008 at 7:38 PM
How can someone be so naive to believe that atoms that have never been seen be denoated as the “building blocks” of that which exists? How can someone be so naive to believe that viruses that none have seen be responsible for such devastating diseases? How can someone be so naive to think that electrons exist in orbits?
It is not about what you THINK is responsible for something, but what ACTUALLY is responsible for something. We know from the Creator of the heavens and the earth and YOU, that hasad exists and we also see the obvious effects of hasad not only in this story but in many others. Similar to how you believe in the issues mentioned above, all of this is based on evidences that we experience around us.
Mur
May 22, 2008 at 8:28 PM
Medical evidence is not something you experience around you, which is anecdotal at best.
Evidence is several independent, double-blind, controlled, peer-reviewed studies which show that headaches and other medical ailments etc aren’t caused by jealousy, but medical, physical reasons.
Siraaj Muhammad
May 22, 2008 at 8:53 PM
This is not proof – this is an observation with imperfect instruments subject to change when and if new data points become available. It’s the same technique, by the way, used to affirm the theory of evolution as the origin of life (and not simply a process used to move it forward).
Oops.
Siraaj
Fatima Barkatulla
May 22, 2008 at 9:55 PM
Apart from segregation which is a must (only a dayyooth would allow his beautifully dressed wife to appear in front of other men), I think what the sister in her article is saying is that we need to stop the showing-off culture that is rampant within our communities. One wedding I went to, there were some quite poor sisters who attended it. It was segregated but the brides family insisted on displaying all of the gifts (jewellery, designer suits etc) that the grooms family had given them. It was shameless showing off. I knew people who were there, looking at all these gifts who were on state benefits here in the UK and could never have dreamed of receiving or giving such gifts.
Keep our weddings simple and don’t blatantly show off….keep to Islamic guidelines and Allah will put Barakah in the union insha Allah.
Fatima Barkatulla
May 22, 2008 at 9:57 PM
By the way, why is the post called ‘to seperate or not to seperate’ as if there is room for opinions on this matter! ?
True Virtues
May 22, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Before I even read that post… I just said: Separate. Lol.
But I see the point here, personally I refuse to go mixed weddings now simply because of the overwhelming amount of fitnah. May Allah protect the Muslims.
sincethestorm
May 22, 2008 at 11:26 PM
I think its important to point out that the evil eye affects people only if it is THE WILL of Allah SWT. So you can take the precautions and have a small wedding, read the surahs or separate the wedding ceremony….You were meant to go through that pain and experience the migraines. It was either a trial or punishment. Allah knows best. Some people get soooo paranoid over evil eye that they start suspecting people…Thus creating ill feelings among Muslims..Another trap of the Shaytaan.
As far as whether a wedding should be separated or not. I think that is on a lower level of importance compared to how much is spent on weddings. A wedding at a hotel…easily $25,000 to $30,000. Add in the cost of the engagement party, mehndi, walima, clothes for the bride…I could go on and on.
whawha
May 23, 2008 at 12:35 AM
As Salaam Alaikum,
A lot of you all are saying that it is God who declared that we should seperate ourselves from men and women during events, but could anyone please give the verse from the Quran that says that? I am really curious to see this verse (which I know that does not exist). Are you sure that you are not confusing God’s words with someone elses? And thinking that because someone you may think of as being high and strong in wisdom, is actually preaching what God said?
PLEASE! PLEASE! Show me the verse where God declares that men and women must seperate themselves in events! Please show me the verse. I don’t want your scholars’ articles. I want the Surah and Ayat number.
salaam
Siraaj Muhammad
May 23, 2008 at 1:26 AM
Good call. While we’re at it, I want to see the surah and ayaah number which tells me I have to pray 2 rakaat for fajr, 4 rakaat for dhuhr, 4 rakaat for ‘Asr, 3 rakaat for maghrib, and 4 rakaat for ‘Isha. If that’s not in the Qur’aan, then to heck with you!
Siraaj
inexplicabletimelessness
May 23, 2008 at 1:45 AM
I am really curious to see this verse (which I know that does not exist).
Bismillah,
Why are you asking for the Surah and verse number if you know it does not exist? Doesn’t it show you are already biased and have made up your mind already? As a sister in Islam, I would just like to advise you that when seeking knowledge, we should put aside our personal preferences, cultures and opinions and open our minds and hearts to see what Allah, our Creator, has said. We cannot be successful in this life or hereafter if we value anyone’s word above Allah’s.
In the Qur’an, Allah says:
โAnd when you ask the ladies for anything, ask them from before a screen. That makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs.โ [Sรปrah al-Ahzรขb: 53]
โSay to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them.โ and says: โAnd say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty.โ [Sรปrah al-Nรปr: 30-31]
I don’t understand how one can lower their gaze in a mixed setting when everyone is dressed up, perfumed, sitting next to each other, smiling, enjoying themselves, etc. ?
Furthermore, Allah says in the Qur’an many times “wa atheeUllah wa atheeurRasul” (Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger). Thus, the Sunnah is clearly one of the major sources of legislation in Islam, along with the Qur’an, as brother Siraaj has mentioned.
You will find many many proofs against mixing according to the Qur’an and Sunnah in this excellent article by Sheikh Sami al-Majid at Islamtoday.com
“Free-Mixing Between Men and Women”
http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=594
Allah knows best.
Charles
May 23, 2008 at 6:41 AM
There are some good points in many of the posts here, but I do wonder at the focus on how some Muslims may dress at mixed weddings. It can’t be any worse than the way most non-Muslims (and non-observant Muslims) dress in everyday life in which men and women are mixing–there is no choice here–at work, while shopping, and everywhere else. I’m not talking about whether weddings should be mixed or not, and just because others are doing something doesn’t mean that we should. But it seems odd to me to get so strongly excited about the problems of mixing and modesty when, at least in the U.S., we are surrounded by mixing and immodesty in our everyday lives on an everyday basis in ways that go far beyond what we’re going to see at the average Muslim wedding.
Faraz
May 23, 2008 at 9:06 AM
But it seems odd to me to get so strongly excited about the problems of mixing and modesty when, at least in the U.S., we are surrounded by mixing and immodesty in our everyday lives on an everyday basis in ways that go far beyond what weโre going to see at the average Muslim wedding.
I think this discrepancy has a lot to do with what is within our control and what is not. For example, most of us listen to music inadvertently just by being outside doing our daily things; there’s not much we can do about that (although I do know people of strong taqwa who somehow manage to avoid even that background noise). But if I’m organizing an event, and I have full control over what is going on, then it would be my responsibility to make sure that it complies with Islamic principles.
Same thing with free mixing; where we do have some say, such as in our weddings, we should keep things modest and respectful. When we’re out and about in the world, it’s not within our realm of control. Of course, we do what we can to avoid unnecessary mixing, but it’s not always possible to avoid everything all the time.
Charles
May 23, 2008 at 9:53 AM
Same thing with free mixing; where we do have some say, such as in our weddings, we should keep things modest and respectful. When weโre out and about in the world, itโs not within our realm of control. Of course, we do what we can to avoid unnecessary mixing, but itโs not always possible to avoid everything all the time.
I agree. When things are under our control, we should do our best to keep things as modest and respectful as we believe appropriate. What I was looking at was the strength of people’s emotions on this topic. That is, although we should do our best, it’s just something that we should do calmly as a normal part of our lives rather than getting all hot and bothered about others who add one more instance among a thousand others of being less than fully modest and respectful. In some ways, such excitement is less than modest and respectful.
Muhammad
May 23, 2008 at 10:28 AM
lol! Br Siraj, that just cracked me up!!
The show-me-proof-from-Quran-only argument is so lame. Alhamdulillah, it’s very easy to refute as well. Good job, ya akhi.
Charles
May 23, 2008 at 10:49 AM
SIMPLE: Because Allah said so. …
Sure, there might be wisdoms behind it which we see later such as hasad, scientific evidence, etc. but that isnโt the main reason.
Yes and no. Yes, we obey because Allah said so. But, if we don’t understand the reason, then we may make haram what is halal, and vice versa. Take, for example, this hadith (Bukhari 5:17):
Narrated Abdullah bin Umar:
That Allah’s Apostle said, “Allah will not look on the Day of Judgment at him who drags his robe (behind him) out of pride.” Abu Bakr said “One side of my robe slacks down unless I get very cautious about it.” Allah’s Apostle said, “But you do not do that with a pride.”
If Abu Bakr had not learned the reason, then he would have been forbidding what was actually permitted in his case, and he would have liekly extended that forbidding to others for whom it was not forbidden. I admit that there are some instances in which we may not know the reasons and in which a command of Allah seems clearly applicable to everyone at all times. Even so, we cannot say at all times in all cases, “Allah said so.” To the best of our ability, we need to determine the reason(s) behind Allah’s sayings so we can understand how to apply that guidance appropriately in different contexts at different times and with different individuals.
Mezba
May 23, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Actually Siraj Muhammad,
Surah al Maidah verse 92 “Obey Allah and Obey his Prophet and worry, and be warned that the Prophet’s duty is only to deliver the message clearly”
Surah Mujadilah verses 12-13 “Perform Salat (Prayer), give Zakat and Obey Allah and his Prophet”
if we are to pray we have to obey the Prophet and the Prophet said very clearly “pray as you see me pray” which is how we got to the 2 rakat for Fajr, 4 for zuhr etc.
It is well known that Quran and Hadith together form the crux of fiqh.
however to my knowledge I have not come across any hadith that makes it a RELIGIOUS requirement to have a segregated wedding. However there are countless instructions for us to behave modestly and lower our gaze.
And oh, inexplicabletimelessness , as for Sรปrah al-Ahzรขb, verse 53, that is addressed to muslims on how to talk to the prophet’s wives. Please see context of verse before pulling any random one out.
SaqibSaab
May 23, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Exaaaaaaaactly! I always hear “well at school and work you can’ t control it and don’t avoid going, so why make it a big deal at Muslim events.” This is the “all or nothing” mindset that we have. Forget when things aren’t in your control, whatever happened to doing the best you can when you do have control?
Nadia
May 23, 2008 at 3:33 PM
This discussion about whether segregating weddings or not is making me think this wasn’t an issue in the early days of Islam. Please correct me if I am wrong, but from what I’ve read so far, the weddings were so extremely beautifully simple back then and it wasn’t such a fuss, so that there was no need to invite everyone you know, and hence no need to discuss whether to segregate or not! We know how simple Fatima’s wedding was, and we know that Abdurrahman ibn Auf got married and the Prophet (saw) didn’t even know about it until later! (when he saw him with some makeup on his face) This is a side issue, so forgive me if it interrupts the flow of the discussion, but it’s something that occured to me as I was reading the comments. Islamic weddings today have evolved from what is “required” to that plus much more. And with that comes many more questions we have to deal with, such as how much to spend on our weddings, what dresses to wear, what the program will be like, whether we should segregate or not, and even then should we segregate completely or just put a barrier up so the men in the bride and groom’s family are the only ones who can go in and out. In my opinion, keeping things simple is the way to go, but again that’s difficult with what’s considered the norm today (extended family are expected to be invited etc).
Siraaj Muhammad
May 23, 2008 at 5:55 PM
Actually Mezba, I was being sarcastic :D
Siraaj
inexplicabletimelessness
May 23, 2008 at 7:13 PM
To the best of our ability, we need to determine the reason(s) behind Allahโs sayings so we can understand how to apply that guidance appropriately in different contexts at different times and with different individuals.
Br. Charles, JazakAllah khair for bringing up this point. I agree.
ibn fellah
May 24, 2008 at 7:15 AM
To Mezba: Just because you don’t know of something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Indeed there’s a hadith which condones separation…Nabi ‘alayhi salatu wa salaam said “…’alaykum bi sunnati wa sunnatil khulafaa ar-rashideen al-mehdiyeen…”
In other words the actions of Khulafa ar-rashidun are a “SUNNAH”. And Umar radhi Allahu ‘anh did indeed separate between men and women in masjid etc…due to what he saw as fitnah in his time. Such a prohibition is even more applicable to a “wedding”.
(And obviously it would be a totally different discussion if you happen to reject ahadith so yeh).
Mohamed Benazzeddine
May 24, 2008 at 10:34 AM
there is no morale from this story because envied could be picked from anywhere even if the person is not omnipresent . i would like to see more stories that are grasp relevant to our everyday life.
muhajjabah
May 24, 2008 at 1:08 PM
God has given you the commandment to lower your gaze (and looking at someone does not translate into a โgazeโ). -whawha
i hope you’re kidding, whawha. if your just looking around thats diffrent, but the point here is looking at someone in an immodest manner. Your gaze is your sight, basically what your looking at. So when Allah Azawajal commanded us to lower our gaze, it is a commandment of modesty, respect for the opposite sex, and piety. Of course, looking at someone in lustful ways or someone of the opposite sex is what I’m talking about here.
“looking at someone does not translate into a gaze…”
man, i still can’t get over that.
and Allah knows best.
i dont gaze
May 24, 2008 at 5:38 PM
whwhawha….are you sure you’re not the next ibn manzur?
OM
May 24, 2008 at 6:32 PM
‘I don’t gaze’- he’s obviously more ambitious than that…
SaqibSaab
May 25, 2008 at 1:09 AM
Sr. Nadia, this is actually another topic by itself that needs to be addressed. Our communities have been brainwashed to think they supposedly “have to” do when the reality is they don’t. We need to revolutionize our weddings, forreal. Maybe a future post…
…who am I kidding; another post on weddings? I’m asking for trouble!
AnonyMouse
May 25, 2008 at 4:25 PM
Saqib, maybe I’ll take the burden off of you and write that post myself… as soon as I’ve had my own wedding, that is! ;) :D
whawha
May 25, 2008 at 9:21 PM
As Salaam Alaikum,
As far as I am concerned God tells you how to behave in front of people of the opposite gender. If people don’t want to follow God’s rules and instead would like to add their own, then they have free-will to do so.
If you are not capable of following God’s rules, such as lowering your gaze… then you’re not capable, but that doesn’t mean that everyone else is not.
Siraj Muhammad, you’re right, the Quran doesn’t tell you how many rakats you must pray, therefore your tradition of making however many rakats you make during salat is something that you can’t say that God commanded you to do. :-)
Inexplicabletimelessness Sรปrah al-Ahzรขb: 53 applies to when you in the house of the Prophet and speak to his wives. Now of course if you believe that you are him or his wife, then ok.
salaam
A Nightingale
May 25, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Nadia, I completely agree with you! I wrote a post recently on my own blog about the annoyances of figuring out how much tax to pay on jewelry recieved during the time of the wedding. And what it all came down to for me was that… these questions that we create during the time of weddings are only formed because they are unnecessarily extravagant! If brides didn’t recieve a boat load of jewelry (that they really *don’t* need) then all these questions of to pay tax or not to pay tax wouldn’t even be an issue.
May Allah help us to cut out the excess in our life, and come closer to Him.
Well written article, SaqibSaab. I’m glad our wedding is separated :-)
OM
May 26, 2008 at 9:02 AM
Whawha, I’d watch what you say. Anyone who rejects something that is known to belong to the religion by necessity (ma’lum min ad.Din bi’d darura)- including, according to the explicit words of the ulema, a “single rak’a of the obligatory prayers”- is a mutadd, an apostate.
SaqibSaab, you rock. And don’t worry about what ignorant people say.
FearAllah
May 26, 2008 at 9:48 AM
whawha, so how is one supposed to pray then may I ask?
May Allah guide us all.
P.S. Awesome post btw. We need to make people more aware about these issues.
sophister
May 27, 2008 at 10:27 AM
All of you folks who are calling for segregation of weddings because it is “under our control” should immediately disband this forum altogether, as writing on it is under your control, and you are constantly responding back and forth between male and female posters. Also, I don’t think that this qualifies under the “were having a religious discussion so its okay” exception. Winks, smiley faces, etc. All much more than you would do at a wedding.
Charles
May 27, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Anyone who rejects something that is known to belong to the religion by necessity (maโlum min ad.Din biโd darura)- including, according to the explicit words of the ulema, a โsingle rakโa of the obligatory prayersโ- is a mutadd, an apostate.
The ulema decree what constitutes necessity, and if you don’t agree with them, you’re an apostate.
Who gave the ulema this authority? And when was it first stated that they had it and who stated it?
Charles
May 27, 2008 at 12:42 PM
If brides didnโt recieve a boat load of jewelry (that they really *donโt* need)
I agree that weddings are often extravagant, but when I read articles like this recent one (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.divorce07may07,0,4609441.story), I understand why a wife may need some “insurance” to support herself in case her husband decides to divorce her:
“Yesterday, the Court of Appeals rejected a Pakistani man’s argument that his invocation of the Islamic talaq, under which a marriage is dissolved simply by the husband’s say-so, allowed him to part with his wife of more than 20 years and deny her a share of his $2 million estate.”
Suhail
May 27, 2008 at 12:49 PM
Lol this culture is amazing and really disgusting sometimes. Everybody thinks they have the knowledge to do ijtihad and make there own fiqh by just reading a ahadith and a verse from Quran. There are countless fatawaas prohibiting the free mixing of gender but nobody gives a dime about it because they are all internet mujtahids. Some of you folks are saying that it is allowed to have free mixing gathering than what is your proof. BRING ME A SCHOLAR who supports your notion. I can post tons of fatawas from various scholars both from this era and classical who have deemed it haram to have such gathering. If you folks are truthful and have some ghairh for Allahs deen give me a scholar who have said that free mixing of men and women is allowed in Islam. Don’t give me your interpretations as you are a nobody but a name on this forum.
Here are some fatawas
1)http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/103044/free%20mixing
2) Free-Mixing Between Men and Womenโ
http://www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=594
3) Shaykh Qardaawi on free mixing.
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/free-mixing-qaradawi.html
4) http://red-sulphur.org/?q=node/1066
More on prohibition of free mixing.
5) http://www.islamicnetwork.com/index.php/weblog/comments/fiqh_of_free_mixing_hukm_ul_ikhtilaat/
6) http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996015630&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE
Suhail
May 27, 2008 at 1:03 PM
Brother Charles,
Certain things are well known and there is Ijma on that. If there is ijma on a certain issue and then a person suddenly comes and rejects it out of hand then yes you can call him a heretic atleast. If he rejects the ijma and the fard-ayn then he is legislating in the deen of Allah and even changing it which will remove him from the fold of Islam. If you deny that Prayer is not obligatory or say that no i will pray by singing not the way that Prophet(SAW) thought us then you are deemed to be out of Ahl-us-sunnah wal jammah. You can all yourself anything you want but rejecting these pillars will render you atleast a heretic and a miguided person.
Secondly to give a ruling in Islam is not based on conjectures and experiences as most of the posters are doing here. They will take a verse in Quran put there own twisted meaning and then give a ruling on that. First of all this is zandiqa to speak about the deen of Allah without any knowledge. Most of us here are layman and we dont have the right to issue any rulings or deem something haram and halal. We have to follow the fatawas of the scholars. People here are arguing for mixed gatherings while no reputable scholar in the Islamic world will follow there views.
Others are saying that the hadith are not to be taken from which means they are pure zindiq and heretic.
Regarding Takfeer than it can be done even by a layman if he see a person doing kufr. Islam makes clear what kufr is. If a person denies any pillar of Islam then yes takfir on him is obligatory and even a layman can do it. There is no need for a scholar to make takfeer on this cases.
Also i agree with the sister above that this forum poster wahaha is in a very dangerous territory and should refrain from making comments which will be held against them on the day of judgement.
I say to all of you that we should all know what is our worth. We are all laymans and should not make any rules in the deen of Allah.
Charles
May 27, 2008 at 3:48 PM
Brother Suhail,
I understand your position, but two points.
First, I’m not quite sure how you are, if you are, differentiating between the terms “apostate” and “heretic”. An apostate is someone who leaves the religion because of disbelief in the religion. A heretic is someone believes in the religion but rejects certain teachings of the dominant group.
Second, what caught my attention was that rejecting “a ‘single rakโa of the obligatory prayers'” put someone into the category of apostate. That is very strong.
The five pillars and six articles of faith are well-known as crucial elements of being a Muslim, but are their exact specifications as decreed by the ulema a “requirement”? That seems to give them the same power as the pope and priests in Catholicism.
Of course, everyone should show respect to those who have more knowledge. But there is a difference between (1) showing respect and giving greater weight to someone with more knowledge and (2) accepting dictators of religious rules. So, that’s why I am asking these questions,
On what basis do the ulema claim this authority? When was it first claimed? Who made that claim first? And, when it was first made, did anyone disagree with that claim? Who and why?
OM
May 27, 2008 at 6:46 PM
“The five pillars and six articles of faith are well-known as crucial elements of being a Muslim, but are their exact specifications as decreed by the ulema a โrequirementโ
To a certain extent. Let me give you an example: the pagan ‘arab refused (for the most part) to believe in bodily resurrection, and several ayat were revealed to refute them and affirm this belief. One who disbelieves in bodily resurrection, such as ibn Sina, is therefore a murtadd who has rejected what the Prophet (sal Allahu `alayhi wa sallam) came with, and rejecting a part of the message is the same as rejecting all of it.
SaqibSaab
May 28, 2008 at 1:02 AM
Yowza! From wedding setups to riddah. Oh my…! Proof that weddings are a touchy issue. :P
ummafnaan
May 28, 2008 at 2:56 AM
Assalamu alaikum ,
OM: You are absolutely right. Infact a lot of statements that have been made by many on this post are equal to kufr.
How dare anyone think their opinion trumps that of Our Beloved Messenger and His Companions.
And I am so sick and tired of muslims thinking they can just go ahead and legislate and ‘raise their voices above that of Rasulullah (SAW)’ and use phrases like ‘well i think’ or ‘in my opinion….’ Hello!!!!!! Who cares about your opinion; ‘Today I have perfected your Religion for you, and completed My favour upon you and chosen for you Islam as your religion.’ These are the Words of al Hakeem, al Haakim; The All Wise and The One Who Legislates, i.e decides what is haraam and halal. So until you are able to:
1) Create ur own heaven, earth and universe
2) Create ur own set of men, jinn, animals, angels, etc
3) Send down messengers to deliver your own brand new revelation,
Pls refrain from corrupting this beautiful deen of Al Islam with ur opinions
Allah was aware of your opinions 1400 years ago, but guess what? He chose Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (SAW) to deliver the message not anyone else.
Salam
Suhail
May 29, 2008 at 11:45 AM
Brother Charles,
First of all no scholar in Islamic history have claimed that he has the right to legislate in religion. Legislation in this deen is the sole right of Allah(SWT). Secondly the scholars from the past and present don’t give you a decree but they tell you that this is what the Prophet(SAW) have said and should be obeyed. Scholars are not like Pope that they can legislate in deen. They come up with fatawas which are derived from Quran and Sunnah. They don’t make up there own rules for this deen. So your equating them with pope is something very derogatory.
Brother Charles have you ever read what can invalidate your Islam. There are books upon books written on this very topic. Ulema didnt came up with there own list from there minds that this would expel a person from Islam. It was derived from Quran, Sunnah and the way of the sahabah. Nobody claimed any authority over anything. As there are rules of becoming a muslim there are certain things that can remove you from the fold of Islam e.g. Mocking Allah(SWT) and Prophet(SAW) will invalidate your Islam even if you are joking.
I think you should read some usul-al-fiqh before delving into this discussion really. I think you are from Catholic background so you are mixing things up. You should better read up some books on usul-al-fiqh and then u will see what i am trying to say.
Prophet(SAW) said that you should pray 2 rakah fard in the fajr prayer and that is what he did his whole life. This means that is what we have to do, There is ijma of all the scholars on this. We cant come today and say ‘Well i would like to pray 3 rakah’. This would mean that you dont want to follow what Prophet(SAW) said this your deen is not what was the deen with which Prophet(SAW) came with.
Secondly Salah is the most important part of this deen. It is the first pillar of Islam after you take shahdah. It is the first thing that will be asked about on the day of judgement. Do you think that Prophet(SAW) didn’t tell us about this while he talked about all the other stuff. I find it pathetic when these people come around and say that well Salah is not important. It would be better for them to call themselves something else rather than muslim.
Also during the reign of Abu Bakr(RA) when some tribes stopped paying Zakah he told them that these tribes are murtadd and apostates. Did any sahabah disagree with him on this ruling? The answer is no.
When you are a layman in religion that means you have not read anything in this deen except may be few ahadith and Quran. You cant make up your own rules just by reading Quran and Sunnah. Within the sahabah there were scholars and layman. There were faqih (like Ibn Masud(RA)) and mujahid(like Khaleed(RA)) who were not faqih. When they had question regarding any issue they would go to the these faqih like Ibn Masud(RA) or Abu Hurairah or Umar(RA) or Ibn Umar(RA) or Aisha(RA). They would give them those rulings. They differed with each other too on these rulings but they accepted it.
Deriving the rulings from Quran and Sunnah needs certain education, knowledge, thorough understanding and most of all taqwa. If you are really interested in this topic then you should read usul–al-fiqh otherwise you will become really confused. I would highly discourage discussion on these topics unless you have some good background in usul al fiqh.
ummsulaiman
May 30, 2008 at 4:20 PM
assalamu alaikum,
what is the cure for hasad/al ayn?
jazakallah khair.
AnonyMouse
May 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM
Wa ‘alaikumus-salaaam,
The cure for al-ayn is, I believe, ruqyah.
ummsulaiman
May 31, 2008 at 6:18 AM
jazakallah khair.
Are the types of ruqyah:
– surah fatiha
– aytal kursi
– surah naas
– surah falaq
Should a person read these and blow on themselves or blow on water and drink the water?
AnonyMouse
May 31, 2008 at 5:20 PM
Please see this link and others on Islam-QA.com for more details…
Yus from the Nati
June 1, 2008 at 1:06 PM
Masha’Allah good article. I was hit more by the Israaf than anything.
As far as the Hasad deal…I’d have to be just in my opinion and agree with the beginning people posting…there is no DIRECT relation. Although…on the other hand Sadd Dharai is a very real lever we need to pull in these types of functions!
I know everybody’s heard those articles and real life situations people going into debt for the actual weddings themselves and buying mass jewelry and etc etc. It’s wackery. but…that’s the culture we’re in and people.
As Hamza Yusuf said in that lecture from that Maqasid blog about secularism….Jewelry are SHACKLES…SHACKLES TO THE DUNYA!
Yusuf
whawha
June 3, 2008 at 1:16 AM
As Salaam Alaikum,
People love to go about and call someone a non-Muslim just because they don’t agree. I believe in God. I believe in the Quran. I DO believe in the Prophet Muhammad, and I DO beleive in obeying him. BUT I don’t believe hadiths because hadiths are based on a man’s interpertation of what is divine knowledge and what is not. Who were all of these people who felt that they could determine if something is “divine” because of some sort of “science”? Who are these people to say that the Prophet Muhammad really said something, and really did not? I mean, sure if you want to on “faith” then go on it, but I don’t believe in these hadiths that claim that Prophet Muhammad did such and such and said such and such. And there is nothing htat you can say that fromthe Quran it tells you to accept that hadiths of Buhkari and these other so called scholars who went around and checked the “authenticty” of hadiths. If you all really knew, you would know that these “scholars” would admit to throwing away “hadiths” that they felt were “true” at their own discretion… now what does that tell you?
The Quran ask you what hadith will you believe after it! So you believe in all of your hadiths that are claimed to be “authentic” and “divine knowledge” not by God, not by any Prophet, not by any Messenger according to the Quran. But by people who were claimed to be known as good people, and we have all been fooled by “good people”.
salaam
Seeker of 'Ilm
June 3, 2008 at 1:59 AM
Walaikumsalaam,
I’m no scholar and will leave those more knowledgeable to correctly answer the response on not believing in hadiths Insha Allah, but what I do know is that the ayah in the Qur’an explicitly state to follow Allah and His Messenger (saas). One cannot simply live by abiding by the Qur’an alone, for the Hadith and the Sunnah of the Prophet (saas) serve to explain the Qur’an. He (saas) was indeed a living Qur’an from what I remember ‘Aisha (RA) stating. As a Muslim you cannot deny the prophethood of Muhammad (saas) better yet any prophet of Allah (swt). He (saas) was a messenger of Allah (swt). Listen to Sheikh Yasir Qadhi’s series on the Explanation of Kitab At-Tawheed. I’m not sure if it was in this series but there was one part of the lecture refuting about denying the Prophet (saas) to some degree, or maybe it was another series… Islam is a whole package; we don’t pick and choose like some other faiths do (not going to name any specific religions…)
Charles
June 3, 2008 at 11:05 AM
It’s not about obeying or disobeying the Prophet. When one says, you have to accept the whole package, what is really being said is, You have to accept the whole package according to the tradition that I (or we) follow. And some people don’t accept that intolerant ultimatum.
Saying that “Islam is a whole package” is problematic. What about the Shia? Their package differs from that of Sunnis, as does their collection of hadith. And among Sunnis, there is a small minority that rejects hadith. And we could go on, mentioning the Asharis and others.
So, two points that I believe whawha is making are: (1) The “science” of hadith was made by fallible humans and thus cannot be a requirement of the religion. (2) Who gave scholars the right to determine what was a requirement of Islam?
It’s not enough to ask, Who are you to say anything? It’s not enough to claim, Whoever disagrees with my tradition and my scholars is absolutely wrong. These are techniques used to shut someone up rather than discuss, persuade, and even learn. Plus, as I will probably repeat ad infinitum, If I had followed the teachings of my scholars, I would still be a Christian. Scholars are not infallible, regardless of religion.
No doubt people will disagree on the rationale used for any position. But a little bit of humility in one’s position opens the door to learning among all who would listen. Thus, it would be helpful to answer directly the questions and points being asked.
.
Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
June 3, 2008 at 1:53 PM
Charles,
whawha is clearly spouting some anti-hadith rhetoric he/she learned from somewhere. Some of the arguments made are silly on their face, some have been refuted and addressed hundreds of times.
If someone wants to learn about the Islamic tradition and how the community of scholars has come to certain conclusions over time, then that is good and there are plenty of resources available. If people want to come today without knowledge and reargue issues about whether hadith are part of the religion then such an argument is a waste of time.
If someone has questions, then it is good to answer them, if someone wants to reargue over and over again things that either were determined hundreds of years ago (like the authenticity and importance of hadith in general) then it is not necessary for anyone to step forward and engage these arguments with them. Everyone has a right and responsibility to learn…people without knowledge have no right to argue, or at least no right for anyone to have to argue with them.
If a Christian came on the site and said, why do Muslims have a problem with the trinity or why do Muslims not believe Jesus is God, it might be worth explaining it to them (assuming they were sincere) ….if someone came here and said, if you people knew anything you would know that Jesus is really God and Muhammad was an impostor, do you think it would be worth trying to have an intellectual discussion with them?
Allaah knows best.
Charles
June 3, 2008 at 6:37 PM
Abu Noor Al-Irlandee,
Thanks for the response. I agree with the gist of what you’re saying, that people need to be sincere in order for a discussion to be worthwhile. And I can imagine that many do not want to rehash “old and settled” arguments.
Perhaps MuslimsMatters could have links to the material to such issues that is available online or even to the books that they recommend, perhaps a page of recommended readings. They do that sometimes with individual posts, but it might be nice to have a page (or more) devoted to resources on different issues. And they might even categorize the readings as introductory, intermediate, or advanced. I’d certainly appreciate that as much of the reading (in English) I’ve done so far on issues such as these assumes positions on these issues rather than actually discusses the reasoning behind them. They’re mostly at the introductory “Here’s what we believe” stage instead of analyzing and evaluating the various positions in a critical, scholarly fashion.
So, I’m open to reading sources that critique the various positions on why scholars get the right to decide the requirements. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I respect the opinions of those who know more than I do. But I reserve the right to critique those opinions. As Isaac Newton said, “If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.” Despite the genius of Newton, those with only a bachelor’s in mathematics know more about calculus than he did because they have started where he left off. Similarly, we are able to begin where the scholars left off. But to understand where they left off, I need to see their positions, the reasons for their positions, and all the various positions–not simply the ones that people want me to see.
So, back to one of those two points, Can someone point me to online materials or to books that consider in a critical and scholarly manner the right of scholars to determine the requirements of Islam?
whawha
June 3, 2008 at 11:27 PM
As Salaam Alaikum Abu Noor Al-Irlandee,
You are right, I should not be sarcastic. Being sarcastic does not help the discussion at all. But I have every right to express what I believe, and address issues in the matter of what I believe.
THe bottomline is: God declares teh Quran as detailed enough. The Quran ask you what “hadith” after it would you follow. And you all mention the word “sunnah’, but you should look up the way it is used in the Quran.
Like I said, I believe in the Prophet Muhammad and I believe in obeying him. But just becaues someone tells me that Prophet Muhammad said it or did it, doesn’t mean that he actually did!
salaam
ibnabeeomar
June 4, 2008 at 12:45 AM
whawha – please check out the following articles, they discuss the root of this issue in more detail. further comments here will be moderated to keep the discussion on topic, as the issues you are raising are much different from the discussion here.
http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/03/authority-of-sunnah-hadithrevelation/
http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/07/authority-of-the-sunnah-part-2-hadithrevelation-qa/
http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/20/intro-to-uloom-al-hadeeth-navaid-aziz/
http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/
anymore posts about the quran/hadith issue in this thread will be deleted. you can continue that discussion on the relevant posts linked to in this comment
saima
September 13, 2008 at 12:38 AM
May Allah subhaanu wa’taala protect this ummah! I cannot believe some of the comments that I’ve just read! OFF COURSE separation should be observed in shaadis, its not even a question. The prophets wives used to adorn themselves in black clothes covered head to toe when they went in front of men, so much so that it was said they looked like they crows on top of their heads subhan’Allah. Even when they were all covered they used to speak to men from behind a curtain! And what happens at the time of our weddings? We all get dressed up in bright colors with tight clothing. How could it be possible that the Prophet saw would approve of us intermingling with the opposite gender especially in our condition. Modesty is half of our imaan, if we lose this modesty then we’ve lost our faith!
Please brothers and sisters, reflect on your lives and what you are saying before it is too late.
Amal
January 23, 2009 at 6:51 AM
I think people are taking things to extreme. Like some others who commented, I do not see any logic in this story.
I also believe that one should not impose ones choice on others. Islam is abstract and can be interpreted as widely and differently as people are different and diverse. This is a fact. Now some people beieve in seperation while others do not. But to suggest that segregation at a wedding or any other function is the way to ensure safety and blessings, is illogical. The same goes for the whole covering up/hijab issue.
Muslims should be allowed to decide for themselves rather than having various shaykhs and “scholars” impose their wishes and their interpretations onto them. what is precieved as unislamic by some, is not nessecarily percieved as unislamic by others. Both remain muslims albeit with different interpretations. So let people decide for themselves. If you really believe this story, then dont have a big function, put on a burkah, dont invest in jewelry or fancy clothing seeing as nobody will see it, and just have some nice food. And even then you may get struck by envy for the simple reason that you got married and that might be something too hard for others to accept happily.
One question remains – if the woman was struck by “hasad” then why was she to go through years of pain and agony when in fact the shaykhs had diagnozed her? Why were they unable to cure her? There could have been a medical problem and sometimes even the best of doctors don’t know. New things surface every day even in science. Not everything can be explained and I am surprised at the psychic abilities of the Shaykhs.
Amal
January 23, 2009 at 6:57 AM
It would also be very nice, if muslims could move on and stop judging each other based on something as abstract and open to interpretation as. Anti-hadith or not, the person is an eligible and entitled to have an opinion on their faith. There is no one manual to practise faith. That is up to the inidvidual interpretation based on understanding and “scholars” are not nessecarily the best to interpret because at the end of the day, although they may have studied Islam much, they are still humans thus fallible and prone to err and they are simply giving their interpretation of things. It is not unbiased or perfect. So move on and stop judging other fellow muslims.
Abdul At-Tawwaab
September 18, 2009 at 12:01 PM
AsSalaamu Alaikum waRahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu,
I am getting married in a year inshaAllah. My intended and I are planning our wedding out. Our African American culture and custom doesn’t really provide us with much of a blue print for the rulings on weddings. In fact, one of the only customs which I wasn’t too happy with but understood why it was done in our tradition was jumping the broom. When doing the research in Sahih Bukhari , Sahih Muslim and of course, Qur’an about marrying women, the guidelines for the Walima are not really set as far as my research took me. The major hadith I’ve found about the Walima is the hadith instituting it where the Prophet (S.A.W.) told his companion who got married after the Hijra to have banquet even if with one sheep.
I’ve bought a book on the fiqh of marriage that was very strict and, it may have been due to it’s translation, seemed more so based on opinion and feeling against Western or American culture rather than being based on Qur’an and Sunnah. We read as much as we could then we made istikhara about the matter. I listened to many lectures of various shuyookh such as Imam Anwar Awlaki, and other various Shuyookh with lectures on HalalTube.com,
I also attended Fiqh of Purification and Islamic Code of Ethics classes with Al Maghrib Institute with Shuyookh Abdul BaryYahya and Muhammad Ibn Faqih respectively. They touched on marriage and the rights of a spouses and children which my intended and I continously study from the notes that I took the book provided from Al Maghrib along with Hadith and Qur’an to better understand the most Halal way to execute this marriage.
We’ve also observed many muslim weddings of various cultures. We are striving inshaAllah do conduct our Walima in the most halal way.
We’ve discovered that music is permissable during marriage because it’s a celebration. We have been very critical to which songs we would play and their lyrics to ensure that the lyrics don’t promote anything unislamic and I’ve decided to have more Nasheed than anything else, although it’s a custom to have the electric slide play at an African American celebration. It’s funny but I’m serious. We’ve also decided to set aside an area for our guests who are more strict in interpretation and understanding of Islam than we are to play games and so on. We also designed a place for Salaah large enough for all muslim guests of which of course there would be a room for the brothers separate from the sisters. As well inshaAllah we will have a recitation of Qur’an being read as well through out the wedding inshaAllah
I’m explaining all of this to you, not really to put my business out there, personally I would rather speak to a set of Shuyookh to help me in this matter rather than to let all of the internet read my story, but I am very eager to find out if the Shuyookh who seem to be on this site if they could help find out the regulations on Walima events. Is there more information about how the Prophet (S.A.W.) had a Walima? If my memory serves me correctly His (S.A.W.) most notable Walima was with the Mother of the Believers Zainab (radiAllahu anha). I’m continuing doing my own research but I would greatly appreciate it if someone could give me some more information in the matter inshaAllah. May Allah bless you for your efforts JazakAllahu Khairun.
AsSalaamu Alaikum
umm hurairah
February 7, 2010 at 3:27 AM
If itรขโฌโขs รขโฌลjust one day,รขโฌย then best we do that day right.! Alhumdulillah~ well said, tq!
because it is a day, we nd to do it properly! not because its only a day, we can stuff it up…
the same manners on how we treat our life with! we die once, so when we die… make sure we have live really really well because the chance are once! :)
Allahu Alam
Fatima Asmal
May 23, 2010 at 5:24 AM
Salaamu alaikum
I stumbled on this post accidentally, because I was searching the net for Dr Sami Al-Majid’s piece wherein he contexualises the hadeeth about women traveling without a mahram.
Apparently someone here has referred to another work of his in the comments, and so I was trying to go through the comments to find the reference. Suffice to say, that just going through a bunch of them gave me a headache, and so I’ll give up.
In South Africa, we are battling with this:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3102&art_id=iol1274435628183P613
and this:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3102&art_id=iol1274435628183P613
In the bigger scheme of things I find debates like these counter-productive and time and energy-consuming.
The issue of segregation of sexes is not as clear-cut as some here make it out to be (and I’m not talking weddings, although even there there it can be said to be debatable as it depends on so many things – who is invited, what are the seating arrangements, what is the bride wearing, are the couple being forced by their famiies (does happen you know) to have a certain type of arrangement?)
In fact on the very site on which I read the Sami Al-Majid mahram piece, there is an article which discusses segregation and its deeper meaning.
MANY (and not just self-proclaimed progressives) argue that one of the verses quoted above is in specific reference to the wives of the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu ‘alayhi wassallam.
I’m also annoyed at the constant argument that “we do not not observe the same etiquette, dress the same way” that women in the time of the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahy ‘alayhi wassallam did. Strangely enough, this argument is often put forward in contexts (I agree, not this one) where women DO dress modestly. A perfect example thereof is South Africa, where this line of argument is used to discourage women from attending the ‘Eid Salaah. I’ve attended ‘Eid Salaah here for close to a decade now, and NOT ONCE have I seen a woman there dressed inappropriately.
But then again, the way we Muslims go about things, we’ll always have our own ideologically-sltanted definition of what constitutes appropriateness and try to impose this on others.
I don’t even know what my point is. All I know is that four or five years ago, when I believed ‘my Shaykhs’ were the best Shaykhs and always right, I would have probably lent support to the said arguments. I’m not so super-confident that I’m right anymore.
wassalaam
Moderate Muslim
September 15, 2012 at 2:31 PM
This is the dumbest thing I have ever read relating to Islam. There is a 0% chance that girls headaches were due to her being on stage during her wedding. Please stop looking into such insignificant things and just try to be good people with good morals while trying to be the best Muslims you can be. Bogging down on such insignificant details is what is causing the destruction of Muslim countries around the world.
Patrick
January 1, 2013 at 6:00 PM
Having a partition is too much. Especially when you are inviting people you know quite well. Do you think about having partitions when you go to the supermarket? Where there are kuffar everywhere? What happens to seperating men and women then?
Ehsan
October 13, 2013 at 1:26 PM
I have now been to two UK wedding’s where the primary reason for separating men and women was so that the girls could remove their hijab and let their hair down. I didn’t realise that the hijab was such a burden and this was more of a priority than sitting with friends and relatives. What they did in fact was to isolate the fraction of women who did not want to remove their hijab; this resulted in a sister (who continued to wear her hijab) going over the border to the men side to talk to her husband. Interesting.
Men and women came to the wedding together and left together; they will interact with the opposite gender in life; why on earth has the wedding been singled out? What makes that more of a risk that men and women will lose self control then any other scenario?.
The point of the wedding is to bring man and women together, dividing them during the wedding is hypocritical. I have enough self control to respect women and the segregation is insulting as you very much feel like saying “speak for yourself!”. The wedding is an ideal setting for young Muslim boys and girls to meet their future partners with their families. Taking that away is pointless.
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Aisha
June 4, 2014 at 4:13 AM
JazakAllah khair :)