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Suhaib Webb Joins AlMaghrib!
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Mujahideen Ryder
July 31, 2007 at 12:02 PM
:-D
I’m loving the new Al-Maghrib more and more
Amad
July 31, 2007 at 12:22 PM
May Allah preserve SW from the extremists who will attack from both sides, as we witnessed on thetranslators blog.
It is amazing that we have been stuck in the realm of bickering and disuniting about 10% of the deen (or less) that is “controversial” and ignoring the 90% which is not. May Allah make this step good for both AlMaghrib and Imam Suhaib.
Mujahideen Ryder
July 31, 2007 at 1:02 PM
Amad, we should come up with a list of things we all agree upon and then compare it to all the things we disagree with. That way people will have a statistical and physical idea of the sense of potential unity this ummah has.
SaqibSaab
July 31, 2007 at 1:24 PM
Hot. Masha’Allah. =P
nuqtah
July 31, 2007 at 1:26 PM
ooooo,
This is excellent news Masha Allah. This is going to add a lot to al-maghrib’s credibility and popularity insha Allah.
Good stuff!
Amad
July 31, 2007 at 1:56 PM
MR, great idea… why don’t you begin…..
aarij
July 31, 2007 at 2:18 PM
Alhamdulillah, I think he’d make a great teacher for the fiqh courses.
ibnabeeomar
July 31, 2007 at 2:33 PM
from one of his posts on the forums it seems he might be teaching seerah insha’Allah. im really looking forward to that insa’Allah
Hassan
July 31, 2007 at 4:42 PM
I do not understand what Amad or MR talking about in context of Suhaib Webb? Can someone tell me what is significance of this discussion related to Sheikh Suhaib Webb?
restingtraveller
July 31, 2007 at 5:56 PM
http://www.mujahideenryder.net/2007/07/30/imam-suhaib-webb-joins-al-maghrib-institute/
restingtraveller
July 31, 2007 at 5:57 PM
Hassan: I think you’ll be able to understand what they mean when you read his article and comments.
This is really great though alhamdulillah! Awesome news.
Hassan
July 31, 2007 at 6:23 PM
Oh ok, so he is sufi, and joining supposedly non-sufi Al Maghreb. Nice.
I am sufi too.
Amad
July 31, 2007 at 7:24 PM
Wow, what a stretch conclusion Hassan. Who said anything about him being sufi or non-sufi for that matter?
Let it go… this is exactly where we don’t want to go.
Mujahideen Ryder
July 31, 2007 at 7:38 PM
Why’d you link to my post restingtraveller?
Mujahideen Ryder
July 31, 2007 at 7:41 PM
Oh, and Amad, i actually already started brainstorming in my head
Amad
July 31, 2007 at 7:44 PM
I think that will be cool MR… we could actually make a post out of it!
Hassan
July 31, 2007 at 7:47 PM
Amad bhai, I read it on the blog restingtraveller pointed to, and read comments. I was clueless before and hence I asked it.
restingtraveller
July 31, 2007 at 9:53 PM
I apologize for any misunderstandings I’ve caused but he asked why everyone was making such a big deal out of Imam Suhaib joining AlMaghrib and I think your post and comments said it all, wa Allahu ta’ala ‘alam.
abu ameerah
August 1, 2007 at 2:42 AM
*yawn*
…sigh..
Mujahideen Ryder
August 1, 2007 at 8:54 AM
restingtraveller – iz all good. sh. Suhaib Webb said he will explain soon enough.
Source: Kevine Garnett to the Celtics! Suhaib Webb to al-Maghrib!
aarij
August 1, 2007 at 10:57 AM
I love the use of the word traditional waisay. Makes me chuckle :)
Truthofthematter
August 1, 2007 at 4:03 PM
“I’m loving the new Al-Maghrib more and more”
I don’t see what’s “new” about AlMaghrib. There’s a new instructor, that’s it. AlMaghrib methodology, curriculum, awesome teaching style all stays the same. The only difference I see is that certain individuals will stop making false judgments about AlMaghrib solely because of one individual. But if those same people look back, they’ll see that nothing has changed.
All the accusations against AlMaghrib have always been biased and driven by secretarian reasons. Yet AlMaghrib has ALWAYS been balanced in its approach in all of its classes. Those who don’t understand this probably can’t because they approach the matter with dirty glasses.
Ibrahim
August 1, 2007 at 10:07 PM
Very interesting….he used to be listed as an instructor at sunnipath.com also!! below is his praise for sunnipath:
http://www.sunnipath.com/about/testimonials-scholars.aspx (scroll down)
fyi, i’m not passing any judgement—just pointing out interesting things. him not joining sunnipath full-time (i guess) and going with al-maghrib is good.
he’s from al-azhar so he would be good in comparative fiqh, meaning not biased to one madhab or another. i don’t know fully about his stand on aqida issues but i know he is one of those who are willing to tolerate other opinions and avoid differences. but, i am sure al-maghrib won’t change its aqida methodology, inshaAllah.
those who are saying he is sufi: he is sufi in the mold of what you find mostly (not all) coming out of al-azhar…meaning, they don’t reject it outright, but don’t believe in necessity of following a tariqa, sama’, mawlid, etc….he is like bin Bayyah, al-Qardawi, even deobandis (although deobandis believe in following a tariqa)—meaning, he is not an extremem sufi (bralwi, GF Haddad, al-Yaqoubi, al-Jifri, Haqqani, al-Qabbani, etc. type)…Allahu A’lam
ibnabeeomar
August 2, 2007 at 8:34 AM
br. ibrahim, for someone who is “not passing any judgment” you sure gave a lot of them!!
Ibrahim
August 2, 2007 at 10:18 AM
brother ibnabeeomar….true, you’re right. but, i was not passing judgement about him also affiliated with sunnipath. after saying that, in the rest of my comment actually i was being balanced about him and explaining to those who might call him outright sufi or deviant or what not. however, did i imply “bad things” about GF Haddad et el? Yes, i did.
Mujahideen Ryder
August 2, 2007 at 10:37 AM
Turthofthematter said:
There is a NEW Al-Maghrib. New Site. 1 teacher gone, 2 new teachers, new classes, some classes EDITED by the teachers to be more open.
Example: LOG in NJ when I took it in 2005 to LOG in NY in 2007. Their were differences when people from the NY class looked at my notes from the NJ.
Al-Maghrib is changing and that’s the truth. Let it Allah do as he wills with it, Allah knows what is best for Al-Maghrib.
Mujahideen Ryder
August 2, 2007 at 10:41 AM
Ibrahim said:
You forgot to add, he’s the first convert/rever scholar to be part of Al-Maghrib.
:-D
Umm Reem
August 2, 2007 at 12:01 PM
No MR, first convert/revert of AlMaghrib was Gyasi McKinzi :)
Ibrahim
August 2, 2007 at 12:55 PM
There is a NEW Al-Maghrib. New Site. 1 teacher gone, 2 new teachers, new classes, some classes EDITED by the teachers to be more open.
i haven’t known almaghrib from the beginning, but since i’ve known it, i don’t think anyone has left (i could be wrong). so, who exactly left almaghrib? was it recently or some time ago?
Hassan
August 2, 2007 at 1:08 PM
Gyasi McKenzi, Dr. Ashraf, and forgetting one more are no longer with Al-Maghrib. Most probably it was with mutual consent, and was for logistics factor rather than anything else.
Muslim
August 4, 2007 at 12:12 AM
While unity is something important in Islam, like everything else, it has it’s limits. The Salaf were very keen on being harsh with the people of bid’ah. I am in no way implying that SW is a person of bid’ah.
I have been sensing a new movement in which people have the attitude of “why argue over little issues, we are all Muslims…” hence the “New” Almaghrib, Amad, etc… We should follow the way of the Salaf, and not be soft towards people of bid’ah. May Allah guide us all.
And Allah knows Best
Truthofthematter
August 5, 2007 at 6:09 PM
“Example: LOG in NJ when I took it in 2005 to LOG in NY in 2007. Their were differences when people from the NY class looked at my notes from the NJ.”
Class didn’t change that much. Same issues that caused problems to the sufis were still there. Here’s a thought MR, MAYBE AlMaghrib didn’t change, but YOU finally give it an unbiased chance. Is that not possible? Maybe you don’t have the same influences on you now that you had before that allow you to see things for what they are.
It seems as though that the main issue that most people have with AlMaghrib is Shaykh Yasir’s Aqeedah class. I don’t think bringing a new instructor will change the aqeedah class of an organization. Besides, Shaykh Yasir’s class has always given every concept with certain principles and foundations before you reach the “controversial” issues. If one cannot call a spade a spade because of secretarian bias, then it is not the fault of the instructor or the institute for bringing up an academic issue.
From my experience, sufis hardly ever take the aqeedah classes but always easily judge them based on the few peers that come to the classes. I’ve heard so many people make claims about the class that weren’t even taught in the 2 weekends it is taught.
Judge things for what they are and not what they seem to be.
Umm Layth
August 5, 2007 at 6:29 PM
I think there is enough evidence to prove what the ‘aqeedah classes are. For the asha’aris/maturidis such classes are a no no, and for the obvious reasons.
I, however, have issues with other aspects of al-Maghrib – and I say this having taken some classes myself. An example, and probably the major reason, is that there is more harm in teaching students usool al fiqh courses, and other types of similar classes in 2 weekends total. If you look at a lot of the students, after they take these classes, you see that they go and act like they are so learned for taking such a class. The truth is – such knowledge – is harmful for many. There is just nothing ‘traditional’ about doing things in such a manner.
I don’t have a problem taking classes with Al maghrib that are about History, marriage, or whatever. I can always go back and look up anything that I was left unsure about in a manual of fiqh. However, usool etc.. are not for random people and shouldn’t be taught in such a short amount of time. How could anyone really understand it? The scholars take years to learn some of these things – inside and out.
Now you have students taking an ‘aqeedah class about al Asmaa wa sifaat, learning who the ‘enemies’ are (who are ‘still’ sunnis), and they aren’t even required to have taken any other class prior, any arabic or nothing. It’s really pushing it. And yes, this is my opinion, and I may get criticised for it and that’s fine. Some say that it is better than nothing, but I don’t agree. I think that it would be fine if teaching certain topics were done in a wise manner.
Amad
August 5, 2007 at 6:50 PM
Umm Layth, your positions are well-known. Your attempts to diffuse any semblance of unity and your urging people to go to SunniPath or Zaytuna on MR’s post on Suhaib Webb, when the post was about neither (it was about AlMaghrib!) was in poor taste. Furthermore, your little “reminder” about Yasir’s comments on Sh. Alawi (while this had again NOTHING to do with Suhaib Webb) was obviously meant to “stir up the pot”, and your insistence that he has not changed in his style and speech (it really does not matter what he believes, it matters what he states publicly) is getting old.
I took the Usool al-Fiqh class and the greatest benefit I got out of it was an appreciation of the genius of the Imams. If that is against your “fiqh”, so be it. Unfortunately for the folks who want to continue riding the wala wal bara mentality based on the fine details of our deen, then that circle is getting very small alhamdulilah. And that circle includes those who are on the extreme opposite end of your argument.
I am sorry if I sounded harsh and I apologize in advance to you for that, but really sister, let’s set our priorities aright… there’s a lot of work to do ahead. wallahualam.
Umm Layth
August 5, 2007 at 7:15 PM
I think I have every right to speak on this issue, and mention what I did – if these issues are serious. And they are serious. Saying someone commited shirk and promoted the worshipping of awliya is a serious claim – especially to those who consider such a man a wali of Allah. But with all honesty, I may tell people (those who are not salafi claimants) to stick with sunnipath and zaytuna, so they don’t get caught up with this or that, but I don’t actually go around telling people not to join Al maghrib at all. I’ve taken classes, I found benefit, but there is harm in some classes for some people. You can try and tell me that you benefited; and that’s fine, because I know you probably did, but look at what I mentioned and tell me it is not true. Tell me it isn’t true that such sciences were taught in a traditional method in the past, and should still be taught like that today.
I think our priorities are teaching fundamentals, but teaching them right.
Hassan
August 5, 2007 at 7:55 PM
Regardless if Al-Maghrib has changed or not, why people are “afraid” of taking courses. If they hear something that go against what they believe, they can go and ask “their” sheikh that al-maghrib teacher used this argument to prove his point, how do u refute it.
I would not personally mind attending sufi/shia/salafi any class.
Umm Layth
August 5, 2007 at 11:14 PM
I appreciate what you did in one way brother Amad. I would have appreciated that my comment was not deleted because I really meant what I said. I don’t want this to be personal at all, and so out of fear of it becoming so, I’ll abstain from anything further.
Jazaak Allaahu khairan
nuqtah
August 6, 2007 at 2:45 AM
[quote]Saying someone commited shirk and promoted the worshipping of awliya is a serious claim – especially to those who consider such a man a wali of Allah. [/quote]
Deobandis consider ‘istighatha’ Kufr. So, it is injustice to put all the blame on salafi/wahhabis/ahle hadis and what have you.
Also, regarding the Aqeedah classes provided by al-maghrib, with the exception of a few details, there’s nothing wrong with it. It is within lines of Athari aqeedah. As for the criticisms by the ‘traditional’ section of Muslims, then this criticism is only a reflection of their own history. The bulk of Ash’aris have always consider the bulk of Hanabilah (Atharis) as being anthropomorphists. Thereby accusing them of Kufr. In fact the accusations of Asha’ris are graver than those of Atharis. Because, I’ve yet to come across an Athari scholar who says Asha’ris have committed kufr when it comes to i’itiqadi issues.
So, let’s just be fair.
Shama
August 6, 2007 at 4:12 AM
Usool ul Fiqh was the awesomest class that I ever took and was so impressed how scientific it was. Taking that class humbled me so much at how little I know, and increased manifolds the respect that I have for scholars. Taking one class of usool ul fiqh is probably like learning your alphabets or maybe even less which means you are far from having a command on language. That class alone brought tremendous benefit to the students who took it with me in my city as they are the humblest of people around mashaAllah. When everyone bickers and backbites about scholars, these people keep their mouth shut. Indeed the benefit of teaching usool ul fiqh is far greater then its harm.
I admire how AlMaghrib maintains its integrity and reaches out to teachers without having to categorize any. Imam Suhaib Webb is simply an amazing addition to AlMaghrib teachers and is someone who knows how to gracefully walk the walk of unity.
BwodowDingosh
August 6, 2007 at 8:36 PM
Id have to agree with “truthofthematter”. Ive taken perhaps one of the first Al Maghrib classes and have consistently taken classes since then. Although in minor details Al Maghrib has consistently improved itself, there hasnt been a change in the principles and ideals it stands by. The notion of a “new alMaghrib” itself seems to be a sectarian driven statement.
ibnabeeomar
August 6, 2007 at 11:36 PM
nuqtah – excellent points.
Awais
July 18, 2010 at 3:17 PM
Islamqa.com says under: He is asking about Sufism and the Jamaa’at al-Tableegh
“Praise be to Allaah.
It is important for us to understand, firstly, that the words “Tasawwuf†and “Sufism†are modern terms which refer to something that is not automatically approved of in sharee’ah as the words eemaan (faith), Islam and ihsaan are. Neither is it automatically condemned like the words kufr, fusooq (immorality) and ‘asyaan (disobedience, sin).
In such cases, we need to find out more about what is meant by such words before we can pass comment. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The words al-faqr and al-tasawwuf (i.e., Sufism) may include some things that are loved by Allaah and His Messenger, and these are things that are enjoined even if they are called faqr or tasawwuf, because the Qur’aan and Sunnah indicate that they are mustahabb and that is not altered if they called by other names. That also includes actions of the heart such as repentance and patience. And it may include things that are hated by Allaah and His Messenger, such as some kinds of belief in incarnation and pantheism, or monasticism that has been innovated in Islam, or things that go against sharee’ah and have been innovated, and so on. These things are forbidden no matter what names they are given… And it may include limiting oneself to a certain style of clothing or certain customs, ways of speaking and behaving, in such a way that anyone who goes beyond it is regarded as an outsider, although this is not something that has been stipulated in the Qur’aan or Sunnah; rather it may be something that is permissible or it may be something that is makrooh, and this is a bid’ah that is forbidden. This is not the way of the friends of Allaah (awliya’ Allaah); such things are innovations and misguidance that exists among those who claim to follow the Sufi path. Similarly, among those who claim to be servants of knowledge there are innovations that involve beliefs and words that go against the Qur’aan and Sunnah, using phrases and terminology that have no basis in sharee’ah. Many such things happen among those people.
The wise believer agrees with all people in that in which they are in accordance with the Qur’aan and Sunnah and obey Allaah and His Messenger, but he does not agree with that in which they go against the Qur’aan and Sunnah and disobey Allaah and His Messenger. He accepts from every group that which was taught by the Messenger… when a person seeks the truth and justice, based on knowledge, he is one of the successful friends of Allaah and His victorious party…
Al-Fataawa, 11/280-290.
But what Shaykh al-Islam said about the view of Sufis depending on their situation is almost too theoretical for our times, when the objectionable matters that he referred to have become part of the path of those who call themselves Sufis nowadays, in addition to the different occasions they celebrate such as the Mawlid, and their exaggeration about their living shaykhs, and their attachment to shrines and graves, where they pray and circumambulate the graves and make vows to them, and other well-known practices of theirs. Because of these matters, the correct approach now is to warn against them with no reservations. This is what was agreed upon by the Standing Committee in their answer to a question about the ruling on the Sufi tareeqahs that exist nowadays. They said:
Usually those that are called Sufis nowadays follow bid’ahs (innovations) that constitute shirk, as well as other kinds of bid’ah, such as when some of them say “Madad ya sayyid (Help, O Master)â€, and call upon the qutubs (“holy menâ€), and recite dhikr in unison using names by Allaah has not called Himself, like saying “Huw, Huw (He, He)†and “Ah, Ah (a contraction of the word ‘Allaah’)â€. Whoever reads their books will be aware of many of their innovations that constitute shirk, and other evils. “
Sureyya
July 19, 2010 at 6:57 AM
Assalamua Alaikum,
I’m intrigued. Muslim all my life and practicing, not a liberalist, with friends of all bends–from Salaf to Shia. I always find these kinds of discussions fascinating. Islam is enough. Calling oneself anything else, regardless of the attempt to justify it by saying only your group is the right group, is one of many dangerous things Muslims have started making common–and a true innovation. Remember Surah Kahf–think about what brought the Ahla Kitaab to wrong–arrogance leading to division and falling away from Allah’s commands. Stop trying to paint every other Muslim who interprets fiqh differents with a broad brush to feel superior–including passing around fatwas about people who pray to Allah being Kufar. In the end it means nothing–for only Allah will judge and we put ourselves at risk by being arrogant. It would be better to stop the “they” talk and simply condemn acts which you believe are shirk or can lead to shirk. But like it or not, one of the biggest problems in the Ummah today which leads to many things this sight condemns is rampant classification of Muslims as Kufar to elevate ourselves above each other and act unislamically towards each other…. look at our world–the Muslim world–so unislamic. Astughfirullah.
Muslimah
July 19, 2010 at 1:49 PM
“Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.” [6:159]
” And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited, and remember the favor of Allah on you when you were enemies, then He united your hearts so by His favor you became brethren; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire, then He saved you from it, thus does Allah make clear to you His communications that you may follow the right way.” [3:103]
Our mission is bigger than our differences.
We are the people of La ilaha illa Allah muhammad rasul allah.
That is what binds us.
End of story.