What Muslims Are Saying About The Paris Attacks

series of six alleged terrorist attacks in Paris on Friday night have left at least 120 dead and many wounded. Here is a collection of tributes, condolences and reactions from Muslim scholars and leaders all over the world on social media:

      France

      Saudi Arabia

 

 

 

An innocent soul is an innocent soul; no matter about religion, creed, color, gender, race, ethnicity, and age.      May Allah protect us all. — Alaa Elsayed (@sheikhalaa) November 14, 2015

 

       Pakistan

 

FullSizeRender-4

 

 

       Australia

 

 

      United States

 

 

 

Our prayers go out to the people of France.  Paris attacks: Dozens dead and hostages held at Bataclan.  https://t.co/j2fgoaFist

Posted by Johari Abdul-Malik on Friday, November 13, 2015

Every single human being in every corner of this world deserves to live in safety and security and without fear. They deserve to pray, travel, work, shop and play in peace. The best response by the people is vigilance and unity. The terrorists mission is to divide the nations. We cannot give them what they want. We need to stay united in the face of hate and horror.

Our thoughts and prayers are with the people of France today. The perpetrators represent the worst of humanity. — Mufti Ikram ul Haq (@AskaMufti) November 14, 2015

Our children deserve a better world. I don't have many words for them except that together we pray for Paris & Beirut. Posted by Linda Sarsour

Just landed in Calgary and heard the news…Praying for the people of France, the victims of the Paris attacks and their families.

Posted by Muslema Purmul on Friday, November 13, 2015

Egypt

FullSizeRender-5

India

Malaysia

FullSizeRender-6


FullSizeRender-3

FullSizeRender-2

267 Responses

  1. Imam Nihat Yesil

    Pray For Paris

    The Islamic Institute condemns the brutal attacks committed against the citizens of France in Paris and terrorism in any form or shape.

    We are deeply saddened by the increasing number of losses and injuries and offer our condolences to the families and friends of the victims. May Allah give them strength, patience, and perseverance and ease their suffering.

    We ask Allah the merciful to guide us toward mutual respect, and peace. We invite everyone around the world to join us in this prayer.

    Reply
    • Harry

      I thank you for your kind words toward the victims of theses attacks. I do ask for more than words. I don’t speak to you through anger but through a spirit of cooperation. The Muslim sect certainly does it’s fair share of condemning evil but takes no action. The terrorists bow in prayers next to them in their places of worship and when do we here of a Muslim being caught before the act based on intelligence from another Muslim or organization? In my church if someone were to speak of performing horrible acts of violence we would not only restrict him/her but would inform law enforcement. Because of what seems to be only words in response to terrorism many western cultured people believe that the condemnation of terror from Islamist’s is, well frankly, a lie. I do believe that the vast majority of Muslims are good people but if what has been said by them were put into action we would not be having these terror attacks.
      I do understand that our different beliefs will tend to separate us but mere words of you condemning terror is only the first step in healing the divide. The Muslim faithful need to clean house and do more than talk about how sorry they are and have their friends and family arrested when necessary. Until that happens Muslims should not be surprised at how the rest of the world treats them with distaste, anger, and hatred.
      If the Muslim faithful do not step up and do their part as citizens then they will have to decide which side of the war to be on-ISIS or Christian…that will be the choice.

      Reply
      • Aly Balagamwala

        Dear Harry

        We catch plenty of folks in Pakistan (where I am based) and other Muslim countries who are planning such nefarious acts. So what makes you say there is no action against these elements by Muslims? Ask the FBI how much cooperation the American Imams give to them for law enforcement purposes. I know of such incidents and what not personally through my circle in the USA and UK. So please check up on your facts.

      • ScavengerFarmsUSA

        Harry, your main point is well taken, but the choice is not just ISIS vs. Christian, it ought to be ISIS vs. peace-loving people everywhere. We share what should be a wonderful world; all of us — men, women, children, peoples of the Book, all others living under the covenant of Noah — are entitled by their creator of basic human rights, as Jefferson wrote. Pray for peace … especially pray for the peace of Jerusalem, tap root of all.

      • WORDWORLD

        HARRY, YOUR POINT IS NOTED.

        Muslims mostly do not walk their talk. Else this world wouldn’t have been such a mess.

        A truism at its CORE. One always wonders, such a BEAUTIFU way of life but today mostly lacks CHARACTER that attracts.

        Muslims are now forced to be on the defensive: “WE ARE NOT TERRORIST”

        Instead of propagating the DEEN we mostly run after the VANITIES that the world have to offer.

        Islam is now, most a thing of the tongue and not the spirit from a purifying soul.

        JUSTICE OR PREJUDICE???

        Its very unfortunate how we treat each other, far far less than the worst animals that ever existed on planet earth.

        Even insects care so much for one another. Example is the ANT colony. Very industrious, live in harmony and always defending against external threat.

        Just the other day I was reading the news papers and I saw this caption, a photo illustration of a Cow that was hit by a car. All the remaining cows stood by it. Infact they were trying by all means to see that their fellow cow ‘friend’ should rise up again on its feet.

        It caught the attention of someone who marveled at such an animal instinct. He then documented the scenario on video. The still picture was presented in the Newspapers.

        YET WE CALL OURSELVES HUMAN BEINGS. How do we react when we see accidents victims today??? How??? We either drive off or bring out our camera phones and exhibit our idiocity. We want a post on YOU TUBE. Hmm!!!

        Few days now after the shootings in Paris. I have received worrisome posts, and illustrations some are use as dps, from and by those who call themselves Muslims.

        HOW INGNORANT!!!

        Those are innocent lives. How can anyone justify the killing of innocent lives?

        “Do not cause HARM, nor respond HARM with HARM”. Prophet Muhammad S.A.W said.

        Muslims are so MUCH UNLIKE him. Kind and gentle, a man of peace, Prophet Muhammad S.A.W is.

        So, you see illustrations like: WHAT HAPPENED IN PARIS, HAPPENS IN PALESTINE EVERYDAY.

        Does that justify the murder in Paris? Because Palestinians are killed everyday?

        Evil is not answered by Evil. There is no justification for Paris attack. Head or Tail, no matter how we may want to see it.

        “Who ever kills an innocent person it is as if he has killed ALL HUMANITY” Quran 5 verse 32

        There is absolutely no justification for Paris Attack.

        WITHOUT JUSTICE THERE CAN NEVER BE PEACE.

        And when people, of which Is too common, their low thinking that they are doing for themselves good by defending attrocities commited by their own people. Brings a ridicule to what they claim its their belief and ethics.

        DOES IT MATTER WHO KILLED, MAXIMUM THE INNOCENT PEOPLE OF THE WORLD ACCORDING TO HISTORY? THAT THEY WERE MOSTLY FROM EUROPE AND AMERICA? How does that determine the attack in Paris?

        Didn’t Iraq and Iran not shed each others blood for almost 10 years, in the 70s, prior to Gulf war?

        Iraq was supported by the same U.S.A. and Saddam Hussien was their puppet, their boy.

        While Iran was supported by Russia.

        In reality, it was a fight between Russia and the U.S.A. It was an ideological war CAPITALIST vs COMMUNIST which the choose to use other peoples country as their battle field to fight, soaking innocent blood on their soil.

        Their greedy leaders allowed it to be so. Sadam thought with the aid of America he could dominate Arabia. Where is Sadam today? Where is Ayatullah Khomeini? All dead!!!

        Ayatullah Khomeni who took an Islamic revolutionary stunts against the Sha of Iran. Actually went on exile in the same FRANCE that is seen as Anti- Islam.

        Was France Islam friendly yesterday?

        Was France IGNORANT of Ayatullah Khomeni’s MISSION. They accommodated Ayatullah Khomeni for his MISSION of the so called Islamic Revolution in his country?

        “IT IS DOUBTFUL WHETHER THE OPPRESSED EVER FIGHT FOR FREEDOM. THEY FIGHT FOR PRIDE AND FOR POWER. POWER TO OPPRESS OTHERS”.

        France accomodated Ayattolah. That is why when you start to do digging in world events. What is presented to the lay man is not what THE TRUTH says.

        Hmm!!! What a world of lies and deceit.

        There is manipulation every where due to our IGNORANCE. THAT’S WHY WE MUST NOT RELENT IN OUR EFFORT IN SEEKING FOR KNOWLEDGE. FOR TRUTH AND WORKING WITH THE TRUTH.

        So, do we think we are immortals and that’s the reason why we have no compassion for others except our selfish interest?

        I was reading an article about an Iraqi family who took refuge in Syria during the Gulf war. Only to be forced out of Syria again because of its present senseless war…….back to Iraq they went, of which the eventually met their death by the Murder Gang called ISIS.

        ISIS, born and groomed as the result of the irresponsibilty of so called supper powers.

        The war in Syria is the same, it is Russia vs USA sucking other people’s blood.

        Sincere Muslims are not known for condoning FALSEHOOD or trying to defend INJUSTICE. And the walk their talk.

        What happened In France is totally not ISLAM and it must be CONDEMNED as UNISLAMIC.

        Where does Allah say Muslims should kill innocent lives. Where???

        Allah says in the Quran: “O ye who believe! Stand firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the HATRED of others to you make you swerve to wrong doing and depart from JUSTICE. BE JUST: that is next to PEITY: and fear ALLAH FOR ALL IS WELL -ACQUAINTED WITH ALL THAT YE DO.” Quran 5 verse 9

        IT IS THE INJUSTICE THAT WE HUMANS DO AMONGS OURSELVES THAT HAS BROUGHT ALL THIS CALAMITY UPON US.

        So, if some people who call themselves Muslims should kill innocent people. What then should the rest of Muslims do. SUPPORT MURDERERS???

        Murder is not Islam’s anwser to oppression and destruction will never be. IT STILL REMAINS THAT THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR PARIS ATTACK.

        If these attackers are not COWARDS, why did they not go and attack the french Millitary base if they think such an action is an act of BRAVERY worthy of praise.

        These LOSERS, attacked defenceless innocent people in restaurants, concert halls, stadium and bars. Leaving 129 people dead and hundreds injured.

        COWARDS!!!

        Allah says: “BE JUST: THAT IS NEXT TO PIETY”

        SINCERE MUSLIMS ARE KNOWN FOR STANDING FOR JUSTICE AND NOT FOR MAKING EXCUSESS FOR WRONG DOINGS AND TRANGRESSORS.

        May Allah make us live and die as SINCERE muslims most pleasing to Him. Amin

        *Shouldn’t the killing of Muslim by Muslims be our major concern?

        By, counting.

        HOW MANY AMERICAN SOLIDERS HAVE BEEN KILLED IN IRAQ,………..AND AROUND THAT ARABIA?

        As far as I know. The answer is NONE!!!

        Its Muslims killing Muslims.

        “If a man kills a Believer intentionally, his recompense is HELL, to abide therein (forever): and the WRATH and CURSE of Allah are upon him and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him” Quran 4 verse 93

        “……..Be Just: that is next to Peity……..” Q 5 verse 9

        So, let’s be JUST in answering this question.

        Who is killing who in Libya, Pakistan, Iraq, Jordan, Nigeria,…………..today???

        Food for thought for true believers in Allah and not PREJUDICE.

        Yet, this Supper powers, America and their likes manufacture Guns, Bombs, Ammunitions per minute. Like as BREAD is produced in BAKERY.

        WHAT AN IRONY! WHAT A WORLD!

      • Saad Eddin

        My friend , allow me to tell you this , we are fighting IS as moslems , fighting IS is more important than critics them

    • Vocal Citizen

      Why won’t Muslims renounce Islam and leave the religion for good as a symbol of protest. This should give the terrorists a wake up call?

      Reply
      • Naomi

        That seems to be the equivalent of asking a Christian to denounce Christ because of wing-nuts like Westboro Baptist. Or asking a Democrat to turn Republican because the actions of a few poor-decision making Dems.

      • A real muslim

        My religion tells me to respect my parents, care for orphans, care for the planet, give charity to the poor, speak nicely about others, care for my body and to respect human life. Why would I denounce all that just because some useless waster Che Guevara wannabes have claimed my religion as the motivation for their 10 minutes of YouTube fame?

      • Brien

        When you all migrate, will you all sign a contract with your host nation declaring that you will respect and obey all laws of the land above all other law????? (without Taqiyya)
        All of you do this now. All of you sign back in and show your hand!

      • A real muslim

        Brien, I’m Australian, I was born and raised here. I’m a white English first language Australian Muslim living in Australia. Btw My parents and my sister and brother are all non believers. I did not join a religion that asked me to disassociated with them and definitely not one that would tell me to kill them. Being a Muslim does not interfere in the slightest with my ability to follow the laws of my country. If anything I follow them better as I am instructed to by my religion. I don’t drink drive, I don’t borrow money I am unable to pay back, I am respectful to my neighbours. A good Muslim is a good citizen. A bad Muslim, just like another bad person is a problem for their community. If you want to help make a difference go and set up or volunteer at a youth group at your local mosque. Talk to the young people but also listen to them too. Maybe having your ear is all it would take for some kid to turn their back on this movie like nonsense that some are getting involved with.

    • Brien

      Prayers are an insult to intelligence!
      Prayers are for the lazy and useless!
      Obey the laws of the land which are based on proper ethics and the universally accepted human rights.
      Take your fraudulent holy books and get a life!

      Reply
      • Lylah

        Brien, YOU get a life. People deal with things in different ways, and there are actually people out there that are helped by prayer. Stop trying to hurt those that think differently from you and maybe focus on being a decent human being.

      • Sara

        Such a internet troll, Brien. such wow. such “your liberty ends when if affects the other people’s liberty”, Brien. May Allah, God, Goddesses, Entities, and Humanity be with us. Everyone. Please let people awake from their hate-state, from their blood thirst and realize some things are much more important. As an atheist I respect other people’s beliefs.

      • Dennis

        Hi Brien. You said:

        1) “Prayers are an insult to intelligence!”. To this we reply, “Prayers are the quieting of the lower mind, so that the Higher Mind might operate effectively. The Higher Mind is the Highest Intelligence, as you probably know first hand from moments when you have surrendered yourself to it. The practice of prayer is simply the practice of submitting to the Universal Intelligence, much the way an American Football quarterback submits to the ultimate plan dictated to him by his team’s coach. Keyword: team. Humanity is a team, not teams.

        2) “Prayers are for the lazy and useless!” Actually prayer takes strength, courage, discipline, and lots of heavy lifting in the brain; it is nowhere near as casual and misdirected as living without prayer as a constant practice.

        3) “Obey the laws of the land which are based on proper ethics and the universally accepted human rights.” Laws of the land are laws created by groups of men. There is no group of men or women in history whose laws have been considered to be more critical to survival than the natural laws of the Universe. The ethics of the Universe predicate human ethics, necessarily. For a deep understanding of these Universal Laws, we pray. The manual for life itself is contained within life, not somewhere outside of it.

        4) “Take your fraudulent holy books and get a life!” This is an aggressive statement that seems to regard Islamic scripture as “less true” than some other standard which you are in support of. It would be more useful for you, as an advocate of your healing belief system, to promote it with love rather than attacking others’ with anger.

        I say all of this with genuine sincerity, humility, love, and respect for your right to an opinion. – Peace

      • Brien

        Concerning your laws, rules and religion. If you think what you have is true then bring forward your undeniable evidence, your irrefutable proof, your reproducible data, your verifiable witnesses, all of which can be validated by peer-reviewed criticism, just as is required in a modern court of law.
        Otherwise you have a fable, a fantasy, a man made construct, a lie ; no different than the other mythologies of Rome or the Vikings, a charade for control.
        I don’t expect to hear back with anything concrete!

      • JeffB

        Prayer has a scientific basis. Im Not sure that what we need right now from Islamic leaders is prayer-rather than reform-but it has a scientific basis. It bonds relationship For longer duration, stimulates observable neural connections, and hundreds of millions of not billions of people report increased well being from it.

      • Auwal

        You’re a sentimental bigot and a complete loser without a brain. You’ll die from hate attack.

      • Brien

        “prayer” per se, as you wish to define it ie to a god, has absolutely no effect. Prayer as a meditation technique, or a relaxation method, like mantras and yoga, do. Do you understand? If you want to use the presumption of a claim for a god, then you must proffer the proof and evidence for your claim that a god does exist. Faith is not acceptable in an objective and factually based debate.

      • Ilídio Duarte

        Article 18 of universal declaración of human rights, general assembly resolución 217 A, 10 december 1948: “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, consciente and religión or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in público or private, to manifestaciones his religión or belief un teaching, práctica, worship and observante.
        You said: “bla-bla-bla, this is, thay are…” ok its your opinión, i wont refute that, you also said:” take bla-bla-bla and get a life”, ok, you get a life, what i do, in use of my rights, without offending others woth my prayers is between me and God, and you hace nothing to do with it! End of story.

      • Scott

        Brien,

        Do you belive in love? Do you love your family and friends?

    • Darius

      All these suppose leaders of the Muslim faith have something more to do than just come on here and say, “we condemn these acts”. That is what they said the last 10 times or so. WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT! Why are Muslim parents not turning in their sons and daughters to the authorities when they know that they have joined a dangerous fanatical group? Is their love for their murderous children greater than their love for what is right? Are their children worth more than the children of the people they kill? True love is impartial! Their failure to do so shows their approval of the path they have taken. It shows that their parents would do the same if they had the courage. Why aren’t Imams turning in their pupils who they know are tied in with radical fanatical groups or who have gone over to the middle east to train? Why aren’t real, loving and true worshipers of Islam fighting against this cancer in their own religion? IF you don’t stand up against it then you are for it and although with your mouth you say one thing, your actions say another. If Islam is not this evil at the core than why aren’t Muslim nations actively, withing their own countries,squashing this type of ideology and rounding up those who turn to violent radical groups? In my eyes, I see them blowing themselves up in their countries (Shias and Sunnis) so why in the world would they tell someone else they can’t do the same? They have no power to do so! Why did it grow in the first place if this type of thing was taboo in Muslim nations? By the way, this is taboo in any nation. You are not allowed to murder anyone in the name of any God. That is not a religious liberty anyone on this planet has. That is a human law. We all know that except the middle east apparently. IF Islam was all about love and compassion and not force, than why aren’t the Muslims Nations so outraged that this is done in the name of their God and religion and root out all the sects that are like this and not only that, why don’t they teach their sons and daughters that joining these cults is not Muslim and forbid it? They forbid their sons and daughters by force to do everything else, why not something truly virtuous? You are either on the side of good and love or you are on the side of hate, evil and murder. You can’t straddle the fence Islam. Now the worlds eyes are being opened to the true nature and core of the Muslim faith and the mask is coming off. We are starting to see the fruits of this religion by the response of its leaders in the face of an apparent mischaracterization of their faith. The world is watching you and words are cheap. What are you going to DO about it? A true worshiper of any virtuous loving religion would not tolerate anything like this done in the name of their God or religion and would wash their religion from any stain like this. Not with words but with actions and denunciations in your temples, your homes, your neighborhoods, your countries. It is late now, this should have been done long ago. The world has been extremely patient with you but now is time for you to chose one side or the other. Not with words but with actions. It is YOUR responsibility to root out this fanaticism from your own religion. You are the religious leaders and therefore the lives you fail to save are on your hands. You silent actions and cowardice to root this out of your religion should be on your conscience. IT is the job of a religious leader to guide his/her subjects in the right direction and to denounce all deviation from it. What are you DOING about this Islam? Either make the fruit good and the tree good or either make the tree evil and fruit evil, for the tree is known by its fruits!

      Reply
      • LORENZO G

        The world’s largest terrorist state is the US of A. They train all the terrorist insurgents groups in Fort Benning, Georgia and the lovely named School of the Americas and then let them loose in South American countries to change regimes and slaughter anyone who gets in their way.

        They trained and funded the Mujihadeen to beat the Russians, then with Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt again they formed the Taliban to defeat the murderous Mujihadeen when they scorched most of Afghanistan to the ground. Both those groups had wahabi tendencies and became the US named Al Qaida – millions have been killed, maimed and displaced in Afghanistan and Pakistan thanks to that nice invention of the US.

        They trained the former head of ISIS in Camp Bucca in Iraq to over throw Assad and then wondered why they turned on the US and allies.

        France has been up to it’s eyes in the entire mess having invaded 4 muslim nations in 4 years – Libya, Mali in 2013, Iraq last year again and now Syria.

        Why do the moronic west keep doing these atroticies and think no-one will ever fight back and who is Hollande going to attack now?

        The hypocrisy of the west and their hand in all this, including ours, is enough to choke a herd of horses and then we bravely wage war on the babies and kids and parents who manage to escape.

    • Ashim Banik

      Why don’t you ask/request your Allah to punish the attackers and their perpetrators?

      Reply
  2. WAJiD

    Hi Not For You,

    Firstly, I understand you must be quite angry right now. I know where you are coming from. But the only way that we are going to combat the forces of darkness and ignorance on both sides is if all of us work together.

    This isn’t some utopian nonsense that I’m talking about. It is the only alternative to things getting worse.

    Reply
    • Concerned American

      Exactly. Displaced anger has no place here. From what I’ve read, ISIS’s outrageous brutality is calculated to cause a religious war – making people backlash at Muslims in general, and in turn cause attacked Muslims to turn to extremism. Don’t fall into the trap of hating your fellow man. Love, tolerance, acceptance, and unity against those that are against humanity, is the only answer.

      Quoted below from reddit for more detail:

      What is the point of all of this?
      The extremists are trying to provoke a war.
      Their goal is to cause a backlash against muslims in general, driving some of those towards extremism, leading to even more attacks, causing an even stronger backlash, and so on.
      Their end goal is to unify muslims against all unbelievers, fight a big war which they believe they’re destined to win, and unify the world in some kind of global caliphate.
      Edit for clarity:
      This isn’t just random conjecture, it’s what groups like ISIS actually believe will happen.
      ISIS believes that there will be a big final battle between the “Romans” (i.e. christians) and the muslims in Dabiq (a Syrian town), because of a hadith in Sahih Muslim that supposedly foretells it.
      Very(!) roughly summarized, they believe that the muslims will defeat the christians under the leadership of the Mahdi, then muslim Jesus will return to earth to defeat the false messiah after he kills the Mahdi, and finally, the entire world will be muslim.
      That’s why their propaganda magazine is named “Dabiq”, and it’s why they’ve been surprisingly enthusiastic about countries joining the coalition against them.
      And speaking of Dabiq (the magazine), here’s an article they published on the “extinction of the grayzone” (i.e. muslims who aren’t actively siding with ISIS), where it’s argued that ‘you’re either with ISIS or against it’, and that “the time had come for another [terrorist attack] […] to further bring division to the world and destroy the grayzone everywhere”.

      Reply
    • freebird

      And here you have Wajid, a muslim that beyond all the insults he is receiving, still understand that people are having a rough time. And instead of cursing everybody, he gives his condolences and talks about getting together to fight a common evil.
      Thanks Wajid
      This is a muslim guys. So stop saying all muslims are terrorist

      Reply
    • Chris mullarky

      How do you work with these fanatics love to know the last top man blew himself up in the name of Allah for these virgins don’t think there’s that many virgins knocking around in burkas total cowards and you beardy lot will get your rewards sooner than you think

      Reply
  3. someone

    What about inquisition, witch trials, bloody crusaders and pedophilia scandals caused by Christians? What about the USA invading (there’s no other word for it, the truth has come out and we now know the real reasons behind the occupation) islamic countries in the supposed name of “democracy” and “human rights”? What about the “cruel bombs” dropped in Hiroshima and Nagazaki? Don’t think you can generalize a whole culture just because you’re scared, ignorant and just another unproclaimed fascist who only believes in his own human rights.

    Reply
    • Victoria

      Seriously??? Someone is comparing this to Inquisition, Crusades and the likes? Does this person was frozen since the 1600??? Didn´t this person get the note Humanity went through Renaisssance, Illustration and many other intellectual developments that ended in Humans Rights and Children´s rights charts (for example)? So, does this attacks “make sense” because something Europeans did like 600 years ago??? Cet argument est tellement DÉBILE je suppose cette personne a plus d´un problème de formation et de raisonnement mais, si jamais cette personne a mis un pied dans un collège (lycée???) essayer de le lui expliquer dans un post par internet serait inutile. Y sólo por si no ha sido claro no tiene ningún sentido que en el mundo actual alguien pretenda comparar acciones de personas ignorantes y fanáticas de un tiempo en que la mayoría eran analfabetas y sectarios, donde la religión imponía agendas y se metía en la vida privadaa de todo el mundo, al Siglo XXI donde claramente el autor de la nota no ha aterrizado aún.

      Reply
    • Someone else

      You are right. This is and should be openly talked about as a religious war. Now, the only way to deal with these animals us to be incredibly ruthless. If you strap a bomb and blow up a café, know that all you have ever loved will be slaughtered. Its war alright but now we must return to 8th century tactics and be extremely harsh.

      Reply
      • WORDWORLD

        YOU ARE SUCH A FUNNY………………..

        Ignorance is truely a MESS!!!

        “The OPPRESSED and the INJURED do have an advantage over the fortunate and the free. They need not grope for a PURPOSE IN LIFE, nor eat their hearts out over wasted opportunities. GRIEVANCE and EXTRAVAGANT hope are meat and drink to their souls, and there is a HERO’S garment to fit any size, and an IMPERISHABLE ALIBI TO JUSTIFY INDIVIDUAL FAILURE.

        It is doubtful whether the OPPRESSED ever fight for freedom. They fight for PRIDE and for POWER. POWER TO OPPRESS OTHERS”.

        I just quoted Eric Hoffer from his book: REFLECTION ON THE HUMAN CONDITION.

        So, please FUNNY someone else kindly go and REFLECT over what you should have expected this world to turn out to WHEN innocent families were being bombed at during the GULF war. A SENSELESS WAR THAT COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED.

        Well TERRORISM is a gift to humanity today. PLEASE EMBRACE IT. Its the punnishment for Human Stupidity. WE ALWAYS LUST TO SHED BLOOD!!!

        I end my reply to you with three more of Eric Hoffer’s quotes from his same book: REFLECTION ON THE HUMAN CONDITION. Mind you it was first published in 1974 far before all this REAL MADNESS in what is called a global village today.

        WHAT A MAD! MAD!! WORLD.

        “One wonders whether boundless, all embracing COMPASSION for our fellow creatures might not enable us to tackle the APPARENTLY insoluble problems of a time of drastic, rapid change. Up to now, whenever a society turned a new leaf it had the devil at its elbow”

        “When we begin to think that most people are no better than we, the world seems full of people who are fairly unpleasant”.
        IF AFTER ALL I HAVE WRITTEN AND YOU STILL CAN’T REFLECT THAT THE GENESIS OF ALL THIS MESS IS AMERICAN DEMOCRATIC DICTATORSHIP AND THE MUSLIM WORLD HYPOCRISY. I leave you the third quote:

        “An EMPTY HEAD is not really EMPTY; it is STUFFED WITH RUBBISH. Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an EMPTY HEAD”

        Should you be an EMPTY HEAD?

    • An Devos

      Your examples are right on the spot, christianity has no lessons to give to others.
      However, this is 2015: why do muslim refugees come to Europe? Why don’t they choose Egypt, Marocco or Iran?
      Allah is great, but in Germany employment is better.
      Allah is great, but Spain unemployment benefits are greater.
      Allah is great, but in France social security is greater.
      Western Europe and North America are simply the best places on earth to live.

      Reply
      • Truth

        Ah ! Actually An Devos. Christianity has no lessons to give others ? I challenge you or any one to find any references in the New Testament that support violence. Compare this to the Quran where more than 600 exist.

      • Malik Matiyahu

        To “Truth”

        You have clearly not come across

        Matthew 10:34
        “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

        Nor Luke 12:51
        “Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.”

        The Old Testament which forms part of the Christian canon is full of references to war and violence, some of which are much more full blooded than anything you ca find in the Quran.

        The Quran does NOT contain 600 references to violence unless you include the word “Jihad”. But to translate that word as “war” or fighting”is incorrect – its meaning is much wider and should be rendered as “struggle” which can include personal striving, peaceful protest, political activity and so on.

      • Truth

        To Malik Matiyahu
        You clearly do not understand Mathew 10.34 and Luke 12 .51.It is obvious the “sword” Jesus is referring to is figurative. There is no inciting to violence here no matter how hard one tries to find it. Further to that If you read the verses in context you will see Jesus was simply referring to persecution that his believers will suffer.
        Also the Old Testament / Covenant was superseded by the New Testament / Covenant by Jesus. You will see this if you read Matthew 26:28.

      • Malik Matiyahu

        Dear “Truth”

        How do you know its figurative exactly? Its not entirely clear what Jesus meant by it. There is a coherent interpretation of Jesus’ mission as a jewish radical intent on freeing Palestine from Roman occupation, a narrative was later largely suppressed when Christianity became the official religion of Rome.

        Now in fact I agree with your interpretation, as it goes. But why? Because I read it in the context of the other parts, and make my own judgement based upon my understanding of the overall prophetic mission of Jesus, his character and so on. But you can see how someone might use it justify violence, can’t you?

        The reason I used the quotes was not to prove that Christianity was somehow a religion of violence but to point out how interpretation is everything. The verses in the Quran about war are highly context specific, and whatever else one makes of them they explicitly and categorically rule out the killing of non combatants, women, christian monks and priests. So to justify the actions of the extremists in Paris on the basis of Quranic injunctions is just as unsupportable as it would be if a Christian did the same sorts of thing and justified them by quoting Matthew and Luke.

        You mention the Hadith and that is a more complex issue I agree. Suffice it to say many early scholars of islam completely ignored Hadith, with others being quoted as saying there are only about 20-30 worth using, and none of those were about war. There is actually a “reliable” Hadith whereby the Prophet prohibits the use of Hadith! Furthermore you can find in the Hadith almost any view you want, as its such a massive corpus. If you take the actual reported sayings of Jesus in the new testament and put them back to back they don’t amount to more than a short chapter or two, as compared to the encyclopaedias of Hadith. We also really know little about the context of most Hadith, how wide was the intended application, whether it was even intended as law, and so on. And many of even “Sahih” Hadith are actually quite weak by the standards of classical Hadith criticism. If you are interested in all of this ( it is quite fascinating from an purely intellectual point of view) I can thoroughly recommend Professor Jonathan Brown’s book entitled simply “Hadith”.

        So to summarise: while the Muslim texts for various obvious historical reasons do discuss war more than do the Gospels ( though probably less than the Old Testament – which you may not but many Christians and certainly all Jews do regard as the still valid word of God), there is absolutely no justification in the Quran for the the of violence we have just witnessed, and since this is the foundational text any supposed justifications that might be inferred from Hadith ( which actually would be pretty difficult any way) should be ignored in the light of the Quranic precedence.

        So that only really means that the difference between islam and standard Christian doctrine is that the former does regards war as permissible in certain contexts. That seems to me to make it a more realistic vision – and in any case Christianity has not done a great job in living up to its pacifist ideal, if indeed that what it was intended to be.

        Yours in brotherhood and peace

      • Truth

        Hi Malik Matiyahu
        Looking closely at Mathew 10.34 if you read it all the way through to 10.38 it becomes obvious it’s figurative.
        In terms of the coherent interpretation you mention about Jesus being a Jewish radical if you read the Gospel themselves you will see its not as comprehensive as you or the likes of scholars like Reza Aslan make out. However in saying that, the Gospels do imply there was an element of Rome being wary of Zealot Jewish revolutionaries. This however is at best only a sub narrative.
        In terms of any kind of suppression of an alternative narrative when Christianity became the official religion of Rome there is no historical basis to this. The gospels were well established in reliability and validity long before Christianity became the official religion.
        I agree with you that to know a particular verse in the total literary context of the overall book is paramount. You ask can I see how someone may use a verse like Mathew 10 .34 out of context with the literary whole. Possibly. But only if they are particularly thick.
        Comparing the New Testament with the Quran and hadith in this regards shows the Quran and hadith are much more likely to produce violent injunctions and resulting violent outcomes than the New Testament.
        You say the verses in the Quran about war are highly context specific. This appears to contradict with the idea that the Quran is the “absolute Word of God”. No wonder Islam is confused and polarised between radicals and moderates.
        Your summation of Muslim thought on the hadith is interesting. The fact remains however that in general Muslims take the Sahih seriously. Hence their influence on Muslim extremists is not to be minimised.
        You say if you take the actual reported sayings of Jesus they would only amount to a short chapter. This over looks that there is much more to the narratives than just the utterances of his words. To assume that all that can be learnt from the Gospels about Jesus are merely his utterances is very simplistic.
        You say Islam regards war as a permissible in certain contexts which makes it more realistic than Christianity. I strongly disagree. Better to not even go there. Look at the confusion and crisis in authority in Islam that results in the suffering today , and through Islamic history, due to this open door of “realism”. All it has ever done is create the opportunity for violence and abuse.
        I agree. Christianity has not done a great job in living up to its pacifist ideal. However like I said in terms of the foundational documents the risk of abuse and violence is far less.
        All the best to you Malik Matiyahu. Also in brotherhood and peace.

      • Malik Matiyahu

        Dear “Truth”

        Here is not the place to enter into a debate about interpretation of the gospels, and in any case I am no expert, but I would just note that many “gospels” were suppressed.

        I wanted to pick up your point about my claim of the Quranic injunctions on war as context specific as being being at odds with the Quran’s status ( in Muslims’ view) of being the “absolute word of God”. This is widely misunderstood by muslims and non muslims alike.

        The “absoluteness” consists simply in that while earlier revelations were undoubtedly subject to accretion and omission, the Quran was written down within 20 years of the words coming out of the Prophets’s mouth. At the very least it is known that the Gospels are based upon two earlier sources that are not themselves extant, so Christians have to accept, I think, the possibility of some parts being non veracious or at the least not “verbatim”. That does not mean that one can not discern a coherent message from them, I should stress, clearly one can – although Christian thinkers have been indebted in the past to their Muslim counterparts on theological theory (In particular Aquinas). Recent historical research on the other hand has confirmed the very early status of the Quranic text.

        This aspect of the Quranic text, while an advantage, does not confer upon it, necessarily, it being “absolutely” true for all time and in all contexts. Of course, some aspects are so: the Oneness of God, His Mercy taking precedence over His Wrath, the existence of Prophecy, the value and indeed necessity of prayer, looking after the poor, and rituals like fasting ( all of which are indeed clearly advanced in the Christians texts). But some aspects are clearly related to local cultural and historical issues.

        To take an (infamous) example. The Quran says” “Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them”. Anti muslim ideologues, as well as jihadists, take this to mean a general law. But apart from the fact that the verse in question is significantly hedged around with provisos by neighbouring verses, it is also clear that there is a context and that is an impending battle between the Meccan polytheists and the Muslims. The Meccans had been trying to exterminate the Muslims for close on a decade at this point, and war had become a necessary response for survival. The verse is addressing a specific muslim population in a specific situation of war. And in fact Muslims did not act upon it in later history, by and large, in a context free manner. While there were many abuses, for most of the time they did not simply ‘kill unbelievers wherever they found them’.

        I admire and feel a lot of sympathy for your position that pacifism is a much preferable theoretical stance, but it has not in fact prevented Christians at various stages of history from perpetrating war and atrocity every bit as bad as Muslims ever managed, as indeed you acknowledge. The whole history of European colonialism with its appalling abuses ( Belgian Congo being perhaps the worst of a long list of such cases) was often justified in the name of Christian values, just as IS today justify their appalling acts in the name of Islam. So while I respect your position on this, I think it is viable to take the alternative view: that war does and will probably always exist as long as humans are around, and that there is therefore nothing inherently wrong with a religion that takes this as a given and attempts to elaborate a theory of ” just war” – which by the way is exactly what the West has done based at least in part on Christian ethics. After all, a war against Hitler was probably unavoidable. And, as a believer, I assume you would accept that the justification for this must refer in some way to the ethics of your religion? Or perhaps you think that even in the case of the second world war pacifism should have been the correct response to Hitlers’s provocations and racist ideology? Such a position has the great merit of ethical consistency, but to me and many others, it would smack of hopeless idealism.

        Yours In Friendship and in the name of God, the Merciful, The Compassionate.

      • Truth

        Hi Malik Matiyahu
        In terms of suppressed Gospels what’s important to know is the early Church unanimously accepted the Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John as cannon very early on. Other writings such as the” suppressed gospels you referred to were all subject the same rigorous scrutiny with their subsequent rejection based on solid criteria.
        In terms of any suppression of gospels. Uthmans burning of all competing versions of the Quran was much more an authoritarian act compared to anything in the history of the Bible.
        You say Christians need to accept parts of the Bible being non veracious. No Malik Matiyahu that is not correct. The New Testament is the most validated and reliable of all ancient writings. I am more than willing to explain this further if required although this may not be the appropriate forum for this.
        I disagree with you in saying historical research has confirmed the early status of the Quranic text. As mentioned Muslims have no original copies of the Quran since Uthman suppressed all alternatives. The most comprehensive pre Uthman codex is the Sanaa Quran codex discovered in the 1970s which has actually proven the modern Quran to be unreliable.
        You say the idea of of the Quran being the “absolute word of God” is misunderstood by Muslims. This only further illustrates the crisis of authority within Islam and its confusion leading to its current tragic situation.
        Just how do you know Christian pacifism has not in fact prevented Christians from perpetrating war as bad as Muslims? How would anyone ever know this apart from God? Two cases in point however. Consider post-apartheid South Africa or the USA in the 1960s. If it wasn’t for pacifist Christian leaders such as Desmond Tutu, Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King these countries could easily have become blood baths.
        You say the history of European colonialism produced abuses. There are a couple of points I would make. Firstly the main drivers to these abuses you mention were influences such as commercialism, evolutionary thought / Social Darwinism and European powers being encouraged and instigated through the factionalism of local leaders.
        Sure Christianity has been used and abused over the centuries. However as said the New Testament is far less confusing than the Quran and hadith in this regards and not nearly as open to abuse.
        The second point I would make is that European colonialism brought much good to the world. Prosperity, trade, law and order, modernisation, democracy, technology, medicine, education etc. And the driving force to much of this was Christianity.
        You say Islam is more viable in elaborating a theory of “just war”. Malik Matiyahu please consider the risk involved here. It’s obvious, look at the Islamic world today and the failure that has resulted. Could you in all conscience explain to a suffering child war refugee that Islam is merely elaborating a theory of just war?
        You pose a good question in terms of Christian ethics and pacifism in the context of WW2. This is not a new question for Christians. I myself am also realistic enough to know that war is a reality. Essentially for a Christian it becomes a matter of individual conscience. Within Christianity a tension always exists between self-defence, defending the underdog and pacifism in its various degrees. While this tension cannot always be resolved the fact that the tension exists is healthy. Even if a Christian were to make a decision to take up arms, this pull towards pacifism will always exist which as I said, can only be healthy.
        Gods Blessings and Peace to you Malik Matiyahu.

      • Malik Matiyahu

        Greetings

        You are right this forum is not the place to debate the history of early christianity, but suffice it to say there are respected scholarly opinions that I have read ( non muslim ones I should add) that take a somewhat different view from yours. And actually although great fanfare was made of the differences in the early Quranic codex by its discoverers, when they finally published their findings the differences turned out to be pretty inconsequential.

        If you read for example Elaine Pagels ( a christian but who writes as an objective historian) in her book about the Gnostic gospels, what becomes clear is that that were many variant readings of Christianity until the end of the second century. That’s nearly two hundred years after Jesus rather than the twenty that elapsed between the death of the Prophet Mohammed and the Uthmanic redaction. And it is clearly established that none of the canonical gospels were actually written by anyone who was an eye witness to the events unlike Uthman who was a companion. And all the gnostic gospels were burned or otherwise suppressed and we would not even know of most of them were it not for the Nag Hammardi findings . The is the basis to my comments.

        One other point: you keep stressing what you perceive to be the “crisis of authority” in Islam. But Sunni Islam never had a central authority, and the Shia “lost” theirs. Islam was always quite pluralist and capable of encompassing outlooks as diverse and opposed as for example those of Ibn Arabi and Ibn Tamiyya, or much earlier Hanna al Basri and Ibn Malik. This pluralism was something quite alien to Christianity from about the end of the second century until the reformation. I see this islamic pluralism as a strength, but clearly it can also give rise to problematical situations.

        But look, i don’t think all of this is terribly relevant at the end of the day. Both Christianity and Islam have been both civilising influences and the causes of a lot of bloodshed and other abuses. The sort of argument that wants to point score about which was worse/better does not get us very far. What we urgently need to do, whether Muslim, Christian, or anything else, is find and emphasis our common ground, and live with our differences in peace. Of all groups, this should be easiest for Christians and Muslims because the two share a very large part in common. Yes Islam talks frankly about war but any fair minded reading of the Quran will rapidly conclude that peace is always the prefered option wherever possible. Your seeming position on Islam, with respect, wants to infer that the foundational texts are inherently violent in tendency. Such a view, that one hears increasingly often these days, plays directly into the hands of the extremists, whilst simply upsetting those muslims ( the vast majority) who believe their religion is fundamentally one of Peace.

        So I say to you simply, as a Muslim to a Christian:

        Assalumu alaykum
        Peace be upon you.

      • Truth

        Hi Malik Matiyahu
        Yes I also have read liberal and agnostic scholars you refer to. You say when Dr Puin finally published his findings about the Sanna Quran the differences turned out to be inconsequential. I disagree. If you have a good look at what Dr Puin had to say you will see there was nothing inconsequential about it in that it showed the Quran to be very much a human work.
        I am aware of Elaine Pagels. She is very much at the fringe of Christian thought and her work lacks credibility on many fronts. As I stated earlier the gospels of Mathew, Mark, Like and John were unanimously accepted by the Christian world very early on. The Gnostic “gospels” of the likes of Thomas and Mary just do not meet the rigorous criteria applied to the canon as Mathew, Mark, Luke and John.
        In terms of time frame from the eye witnesses to their accounts being collected and recorded, the New Testament collections are superior to the hadith. Im aware you personally don’t seem to place a lot of significance to the hadith but the fact is Muslims generally do.
        Christians are and always have been aware that the authorship of Mathew and Mark has been disputable. The authorship of Luke and John are more straight forward. However it is beyond dispute that the accounts collected came from eye witnesses.
        From whatever source, we actually do know a lot about Gnosticism and any basis of historicity and theology based on the content of Gnostic “Christian” writings has long been discredited. Yes there were burnings. Burnings of obvious pagan influenced Gnostic writings and as mentioned Islam was guilty of the same under Uthman.
        By crisis of authority I am not referring to a central authority. What I am referring to is a lack of general consensus within Islam. Islam is a religion divided within itself – theologically and politically. Also pluralism in Christianity is not as foreign as you state. Different perspectives and lines of authority have and still do differ and complement each other from the Eastern churches to the Western churches.
        I agree with you Malik Matiyahu. We must emphasise our common ground, and live with our differences in peace. My position in arguing the foundational texts are inherently violent in tendency is only a position many Muslims advocate. There is no point in Muslims trying to hide their heads in the sand on this point. So what to do? That’s essentially a Muslim problem but a problem that impacts on us all. If I understand you correctly you yourself are not a Quran literalist but only in its principles. Have represented you correctly?
        If indeed the Qurans simply a recitation of the contextually bound words of Allah then why not simply edit the Quran and hadith have these verses deleted?
        Thank you Malik Matiyahu
        Peace also be upon you.

      • george

        An Devos & Malik

        Both of you make very good points imho.

        Common principles and values unite us, pin pointing each others religious texts and practices divides us.

        If I may, living and travelling in west and the east observing both societies have evolved at different pace and a lot of it had to do with innovation, colonialism and now we are seeing the information and social media connected age that is ushering in great changes, especially in the less developed societies.

        But, I think coming back to Christianity and Islam as their religious texts Bible and Koran were written down, it does seem both are works of men who wanted to control thought and incorporated their worldview…Bible ( Saul & Constantin the Roman Emperor ) Koran ( Mohammad whose given name was Ahmed..and Mohammad was what his followers called him as his title).

        I still have to see critical thought applied by muslims to the Koran. Such as, did not Mohammad learn anything of dominant religion of christian holy roman empire in middle east, and the many jewish tribes all over arabia that he came in contact with in his 40yrs with at least 20yrs of travel from end to end all over middle east in caravaans trading? And what did he learn about Christianity and Judaism that he incorporated when he began preaching at 40?

        Muslims never ask that question critically and are ready to shun, or worse kill anyone who asks that Q.

        Could it be that Mohammad was brilliant and a gifted individual with a phenomenal memory and had spent years learning the great art of bedouin story telling and poetry that occur when caravaans stop and people gather sit around food and drink as they travel hundreds of miles on camels from town to town? am I making any sense to anyone?

        Arent these questions important to ask by muslims born into Islam, and at least for the majority of muslims that do not even understand what they are praying in arabic as non arabs 5 times a day in a foreign language they do not understand? I mean these are serious Q muslims just do not ask.

        So my dear friends, a little more tolerance and a little more understanding by christians and muslims of their own faith but more importantly for muslims then christians i think will go a long way to bring their societies forward rather then go back to medieval times which a lot of them look like right now.

        Peace and Love and Merry Christmas everyone!

        George

    • Me

      The Salem witch trials were done by the so called christian group Puritans, which doesn’t exist today. The invasion of Iraq was a multitude of issues being done to the people of Iraq by their leader Saadam Hussein and he was toppled to give Iraq the freedom to have their own democracy even though the leaders did not follow through. The bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were a result of the Japanese attacking the US first. Before you shoot down every thing that other people think is right, ask yourself one question. If I don’t think that other peoples opinions are fact, well, then are my own? Do a little research!

      Reply
    • francis Ayala

      To An Devos. Yes, America and Western Europe were built by the hard work and ingenuity of mostly Christians, who generously opened their door to others. They also set up laws of unparalleled Civil rights. Many have flooded in to enjoy these rights, for economic opportunity, and the rule of law in peaceful lands. The idea was that we were to become a “melting pot” and create oneness with this concept. What the West didn’t bargain for is the Muslim mindset- with it’s idea of separation from the “infidels”. They really are not open to inclusiveness by nature of their religion, and forget the melting pot, much less gratitude for these things. Gratitude has been expressed by so many other cultures, including my own that came here- poor and wanting. But it just doesn’t seem to exist in their hearts. How can you be grateful to the infidel’s hospitality, ingeniousness, and generosity when you are instructed to believe that Allah must have created it all first for the benefit of the Muslim? This may be where the great dream ends, or it may be where both cultures morph into something completely different.

      Reply
    • kfw

      To “someone” – I agree with you about the inquisition and to some extent, the witch trials, and definitely the crusades. However the rest of you examples are not even close to comparable. These terrorists, in the name of Islam, are targeting EVERYONE who does not believe what they believe. They truly believe they are following the word of God in waging Jihad on innocent people. Most of the time (by the numbers) on people of Islamic faith. So yes, there is something very wrong with the teachings of your religion. Just like there were things very wrong with the religions teaching during the inquisition, the crusades and the witch trials. However all of these were long, long ago.. The Inquisition reached it’s peak in the 1100’s.. almost a thousand years ago, the crusades ended almost 800 years ago and the witch trials are more than just Salem, (which was over 300 years ago). People have always been afraid of things they can’t explain and have been killing men and women as “witches and warlocks” for as long as we have historical records… in fact, in some very isolated places, it still happens today, but not because of any particular religion. Here in lies the difference between these historical atrocities and today. These atrocities were taking place when people had very limited education, very little scientific knowledge and almost no way to obtain it. Contrast that to today, where anyone of the Islamic faith can see that there are passages in the Quran that could be used to incite people, and instead of revamping their religion to reflect the knowledge that has been gained over time (like the others have, for examples, the catholic church was vehement that the sun revolved around the earth and it took them 200 years AFTER it was scientifically proven to call a calliphate and re-write their teachings, but the DID) and do away with the language in their scriptures that justifies murdering in God’s name.

      Reply
    • Jedi Sentinel

      You write as if the Spanish inquisition, crusades are bad thing when they are not.

      The Spanish inquisition was necessary due to restive people determined to create trouble in Spain and turn Spain back to the Muslim invaders.

      The crusades were necessary to defend Europe against Muslim aggression. If not for the crusades, the whole of Europe would have been subjugated under Islam. Have you not read of the battle of Lepanto and the siege of Vienna?

      Have you not read about the cruelty of the Japanese soldiers who slaughtered innocent Chinese civilians in South East Asia and China? The Japanese caused a lot of suffering in all the lands they attacked. The atomic bombs were a response to what they started.

      Islam has been the aggressor ever since Muhammad moved to Medina.
      Read about it at thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

      Reply
    • Hawk

      The worst action to this terrorism is no action at all. Instead of sitting back and being complacent, while waiting for the next “strike”, we should respond as we did during WWII against Japan. Bomb the countries that support ISIS. Wipe them all out or hurt them badly enough so that they ALL know what’s coming the next time these cowards “bomb themselves” on us.

      Reply
      • WORDWORLD

        Be the defination of the word HAWK it tells that you are such an OPPRESSOR and a lover of OPPRESSION.

        So go get yourself a BRIAN.

        Hawk simple means: A LARGE BIRD THAT HUNTS AND EATS SMALL BIRDS AND ANIMAL.

        If a HAWK is not such a COWARD why doesn’t it go for the LARGE birds and animals?

        Its such a COWARD that is why!

        Bombing who???

        Wasn’t it the HAWK approach of the UNITED STATES OF LIES and her ALLIES that has dragged our world down now bleeding at our feet.

        If not for their bombing of IRAQ during the avoidable GULF WAR would we have had ISIS?

        USA keeps using aggression every where.

        Please tell me. The Gulf war, what was it all about?

        SAVING LIVES???

        Was that how to save lives????????

        How many people dead and still counting. Its easy to seat behind your computer drinking cocacola a typing without thinking.

        I don’t want to believe that you are a MORON. Not knowing that violence only begats violence.

        Please give yourself a BRAIN.

        Take a look at Libya……………all ruined. Yet these agressors call themselves THE FIRST WORLD COUNTRIES or THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES.

        I am telling you that your heart and brain is all UNDERDEVELOPED.

        DESTRUCTION IS NOT THE SAME AS DEVELOPMENT.

        What do you expect when you go destroying peoples homes and families.

        Issues which has divergent solutions other than VIOLENCE we unreasonable go to WAR.

        WHY???

        Perhaps you should be in your jet by now going to do the bombing HAWK!

  4. Stephen

    All this talk of “praying” to a god that has never been shown to actually exist is, at best, ironic.

    Reply
    • Matthew Johnson

      Why ironic, exactly?

      What this view of yours, that is re-iterated so much that its become trite, ignores is that, by definition, God cannot be “shown to exist”. God is not an object that can be detected by sensory or scientific apparatus. David Hume made much the same point about the concept of “self” – you just can’t find this “self” anywhere using our usual methods of detection. That’s because the self is a subject, not an object. Whether that means that it is an empty concept is, at the very least, open to debate. God is in fact the ultimate “Self”, and is thus undetectable by normal means for precisely the same reasons. In fact, according to the Sufis, christian mystics, and many strains of Hinduism, in the final analysis our own little “self” in none other than an aspect of the greater “Self”. Which not incidentally becomes the basis for our commonality and spiritual equality, and thus compassion, mercy and love.

      So while you may perfectly reasonably decide that you simply don’t buy all that, I fail to see why its an irony that some people do?

      Reply
  5. celia

    I do too. I don’t care that there are millions of muslins agains these attacks! There are also thousands of muslins who support this “way of fighting”. And those thousands are enough. Damn ALL of them. Stupid people. For religious reasons? Stupid people indeed!

    Reply
    • WAJiD

      Dear Celia. You’re coming from a place of anger and anguish, but in order to change things we need to find a common ground built on love and mercy.

      I don’t hate you. And I’m sure the absolute majority of Muslims would agree.

      Reply
    • Berta

      Peter I don’t see attacks by Christians today. Yes they were bad dudes in the Middle Ages my friend. They reformed and changed. We are in the 21 century. These Muslim people terrorist and sympathized are in the Middle Ages.

      Reply
      • Mark

        Are you kidding? Look at the massacres in Central Africa being carried out by ‘Christians’.

    • Zeca Martins

      Here in Brazil there are 50,000 homicides every year. And we say this is a Christian country. Stupidity, as far as goodness, is present in all people. No matter what religion. I am of Christian origin, but I learned that Islam is the religion of kindness and tolerance. Try to see Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc. without the eyes of prejudice, and beautiful things will come before you. By the way, I’m agnostic.

      Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      WAJiD says,

      “Dear Celia. You’re coming from a place of anger and anguish, but in order to change things we need to find a common ground built on love and mercy.”

      Show us the love and mercy in the quran or sunnah, oh yes, YOU CANNOT AS THERE IS NONE.

      Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      Zeca Martins says,

      “Here in Brazil there are 50,000 homicides every year. And we say this is a Christian country.”

      Well that would equate to a slow week for the religion of peace.

      Reply
    • Kara

      Dear Angry Citizen,
      I am Chinese and atheist, so please consider me relatively impartial, but it hurts me too, when you say there is no love or mercy in the Qur’an or Sunnah, that all the world’s 1.5 billion muslims are “evil and sick”. I understand your anger when you see the Paris attacks, but please pause a moment and think of the possibility that the vast majority of muslims also condemn the Paris attacks – which is the truth. When you over-generalize about Muslims, and treat them as a monolithic entity, isn’t that the same kind of rationale as the extremists, who believe all non-muslims are evil and don’t deserve life, and thus attacked innocent civilians? We are all human, and the only way we can counter extremism, violence and inhumanity like this is that if we show an equally strong bond of love and tolerance that extends beyond the boundaries of belief or nationality.

      Reply
      • Nik

        Why when the terrorists are identified, are their stories never told. Where are the interviews with their mothers? Who are their children? Who are they besides terrorists?

    • Angry Citizen

      Kara

      There is no love or mercy in the Qur’an or Sunnah, they condemn EVERYONE who is not muslim.

      As ALL muslims follow these books and and ALL muslims follow the same Psycopath, then no, I DO NOT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN ISIS OR ANY OTHER muslim. In the eyes of ISIS these other muslims are apostate or kafir for not following the TRUE PATH of mu-ham-head (a curse be upon him).

      You say “we are all human”, when muslims start to behave like humans then I will respect them as humans.

      Until then, the only way we can counter extremism, violence and inhumanity or in other words islam, is to continue bombing them out of existence, I pray now that Putin will hit them with the FULL FORCE OF RUSSIAS MILITARY POWER.

      Reply
    • Mark

      I’ve seen lots of posts recently, where folk blame religion for humans killing one another, but the fact is humans have been killing each other since the dawn of time. Religion is one of many, many excuses.

      Reply
  6. Bilal

    Khalid Abou El Fadl wrote: “muharibs (literally, those who fight society). A muharib was defined as someone who attacks defenseless victims by stealth, and spreads terror in society. They were not to be given quarter or refuge by anyone or at any place. In fact, Muslim jurists argued that any Muslim or non-Muslim territory sheltering such a group is hostile territory that may be attacked by the mainstream Islamic forces. Although the classical jurists agreed on the definition of a muharib, they disagreed about which types of criminal acts should be considered crimes of terror. Many jurists classified rape, armed robbery, assassinations, arson and murder by poisoning as crimes of terror and argued that such crimes must be punished vigorously regardless of the motivations of the criminal. Most importantly, these doctrines were asserted as religious imperatives. Regardless of the desired goals or ideological justifications, the terrorizing of the defenseless was recognized as a moral wrong and an offense against society and God.”

    Reply
  7. John

    It’s great to see the good
    Muslims of the world speaking out against the bad Muslims of the world.
    When I was a boy all the terrorists in the news were Irish Catholic.
    From an Irish Catholic.

    Reply
  8. Ian

    I have heard enough of “99% of muslims are peaceful” and “these aren’t real muslims” and not heard enough of muslims telling the police about these people plotting to do these evil acts. The fact is that 99% of all terrorist acts are committed by muslims and other muslims are funding and helping them carry out these acts. People really don’t trust muslims now, and why should we!
    CNN did an under cover story where they send a man dressed as a jew into an area in paris a few months ago to see the reaction from peaceful muslims. The peaceful muslims shouted and spat on him without cause, all secretly filmed. It is time for muslims to prove to the world that they will take a physical stand to rogue mosques, inform the police against planned attacks and people they think are teaching bad things to naive muslims.

    Reply
    • Aly Balagamwala

      The fact is that 99% of all terrorist acts are committed by muslims

      Would love to see the data behind this fact.

      *Comment above is posted in a personal capacity and may not reflect the official views of MuslimMatters or its staff*

      Reply
      • Angry Citizen

        And I would like to see a World without this TERRORISM.

        YOU HOWEVER DON’T HAVE THE DECENCY TO CONDEMN IT REGARDLESS OF WHOM IS COMMITTING IT.

        NO YOU JUST POST AN ARROGANT POST UNDER A SMUG LOOKING PHOTO DEMANDING PROOF THAT IT IS NOT THE SO-CALLED “RELIGION OF PEACE”.

        THIS IS THE TRUE FACE OF islam, ARROGANT AND OBNOXIOUS.

    • Tom Everett

      Islamic terrorism is a very recent thing, brought about by political circumstance. There a lot of moderate Muslims in the world who are doing EXACTLY what you are calling for. The thing to do is to support them, accepting and helping to promote the majority view of Islam, which is that violence is a terrible thing. That is the way to erode support for the extremists, not ‘getting tough’ or cracking down.

      Reply
      • Angry Citizen

        You obviously know nothing about islam or islamic history.

      • Mudloff

        If you look through history you will find Christianity has 100 times more terrorist than any other religion.(and) I am a Christian.

    • Malik Matiyahu

      Not being funny, but if Muslims are helping to inform the security services about terror suspects in their own communities, you are not all that likely to hear about it are you? Obviously it would have to be quite a confidential process to be viable at all.

      Reply
    • Carolyn

      Ah, Ian, I see that you’ve drank the kool-aid also. Please present your facts about Muslims committing 99% of all terrorist attacks. Bet you can’t produce any viable sources. HOWEVER, there are thousands of webistes out there that disprove your *theory*. I’ll quote some of these websites for you so you don’t have to worry about doing actual research. The websites are listed following the quotes. Another point here, you don’t hear about all these other terrorist attacks, because they do not make good news.

      ” Let’s start with Europe. Want to guess what percent of the terrorist attacks there were committed by Muslims over the past five years? Wrong. That is, unless you said less than 2 percent.”

      “As Europol, the European Union’s law-enforcement agency, noted in its report released last year, the vast majority of terror attacks in Europe were perpetrated by separatist groups. For example, in 2013, there were 152 terror attacks in Europe. Only two of them were “religiously motivated,” while 84 were predicated upon ethno-nationalist or separatist beliefs.”

      thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

      “Of the more than 300 American deaths from political violence and mass shootings since 9/11, only 33 have come at the hands of Muslim-Americans, according to the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security. The Muslim-American suspects or perpetrators in these or other attempted attacks fit no demographic profile—only 51 of more than 200 are of Arabic ethnicity. In 2012, all but one of the nine Muslim-American terrorism plots uncovered were halted in early stages. That one, an attempted bombing of a Social Security office in Arizona, caused no casualties.”

      “The START Global Terrorism Database spans from 1970 through 2012 (and will be updated from year-to-year), and – as of this writing – includes 104,000 terrorist incidents. As such, it is the most comprehensive open-source database open to the public.

      We counted up the number of terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims. We excluded attacks by groups which are obviously not Muslims, such as the Ku Klux Klan, Medellin Drug Cartel, Irish Republican Army, Anti-Castro Group, Mormon extremists, Vietnamese Organization to Exterminate Communists and Restore the Nation, Jewish Defense League, May 19 Communist Order, Chicano Liberation Front, Jewish Armed Resistance, American Indian Movement, Gay Liberation Front, Aryan Nation, Jewish Action Movement, National Front for the Liberation of Cuba, or Fourth Reich Skinheads.

      We counted attacks by Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Black American Moslems, or anyone who even remotely sounded Muslim … for example anyone from Palestine, Lebanon or any other Arab or Muslim country, or any name including anything sounding remotely Arabic or Indonesian (like “Al” anything or “Jamaat” anything).

      If we weren’t sure what the person’s affiliation was, we looked up the name of the group to determine whether it could in any way be connected to Muslims.

      Based on our review of the approximately 2,400 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil contained within the START database, we determined that approximately 60 were carried out by Muslims.

      In other words, approximately 2.5% of all terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1970 and 2012 were carried out by Muslims.* This is a tiny proportion of all attacks.”

      globalresearch.ca/non-muslims-carried-out-more-than-90-of-all-terrorist-attacks-in-america/5333619

      Reply
  9. Stephen

    My condolences to the wonderful people of France. May the French find the strength, courage and clarity of thought to deal with the threat that confronts them. Neutralizing the threat will mean ignoring the tropes circulated by “representatives of the Muslim community.” Clearly only a miniscule percentage of Muslims would commit an atrocity of this nature. But equally as clear is the fact that the adherents of no other religion would have done something like this. Terrorism is primarily a Muslim problem. Muslims need to reform their religion.

    Reply
  10. Stephen

    Every mosque in every corner of the world should openly condemn these attacks and every imam should threaten every congregant with ex communication if any Muslim plots to murder innocent civilians. Not enough is done to show that Islam will not tolerate acts of terror in order to further Islamic ideals.

    A mass renunciation of terror of violence must come from within the Islamic theocratic hierarchy in order for Islam to continue peacefully with the rest of the civilised world. Failure to do so will lead to the demise of this faith.

    Reply
    • Yasin

      Stephan, the article you read is an example of mass condemnation and I strongly believe that its not limited to these scholars. What we’ve witnessed is not a religious act. Its a cowardly act by a lunatic fringe. I have no idea ‘Islamic ideals’ would have been furthered by these cowardly acts. You have done a lot more than most people by actually coming to a Muslim outlet and reading for yourself the myriad condemnations by senior Muslim figures. Please take your initiative further by looking as more Muslim outlets and perhaps a visit to your local mosque and see for yourself and reaction and views of ordinary Muslims. There is no ‘Islamic theocratic hierarchy’. We don’t have a Pope figure. Just Mufti’s in every Muslim country and I am almost certain there will not be one that supports this kind of barbarity. Anyway, these criminals have to be eliminated, but they won’t be if ordinary law abiding Muslims are somehow incriminated.

      As a person who lost his only sibling in a terrorist attack in 2009, I know firsthand what they’re going through. My thoughts are with the French families.

      Reply
    • Imran

      Lets put things in perspective! I am happy to go with your suggestion. All Muslims shall denounce terrorist acts and apologise. Now I want the same in return. All Christians should denounce violence and apologise for invading Iraq. All churches should renounce violence. Or have you forgotten God fearing Bush and Blair! And I agree that a small minority of Muslims are extremists and sympathise with such atrocities. But they far outnumber the dumb Americans who went along with George Bush in Iraq war and probably still believe it was the right thing to do!

      The difference in acts is one was state sponsored terrorism and the other consists of rogue elements! But the actions are the same and result is the same! Of course you may think you are right specially being Christian and presumably white!

      Reply
      • Tom Everett

        Well put.

        As a British atheist, I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for Richard Dawkins. He is clearly my fault. I once attended one of his lectures and did not attempt to stop him. I am deeply ashamed.

      • francis Ayala

        Well, we “dumb” Americans are not all Christian, and not all white. My guess is that only half of us approved of the war in Iraq, and those that did bought into the idea that Saddam H. would best be taken from power for gassing kids, possibly building dangerous weapons, and the grand idea that Iraq could be made a democracy where everyone benefited and lived happily ever after (We are becoming less naive now, and more familiar with the complexities of Muslim relationships with each other and outsiders).
        I agree with Stephen that terrorism will ultimately have to be stopped by Muslims themselves. The more Muslims that become willing to look at some of the negative aspects of their prophet, and the writings of the Quran honestly and objectively, the more they wish to dissociate themselves from the terrorists- WHO TAKE THOSE WRITINGS SERIOUSLY- the better. “Islamophobia” has become the same kind of rational fear as putting on a safety belt when getting into a car. Ask anyone from Paris today. The consequence is that the world is starting to look down on Islam.
        Your religion needs reformation in a big way. It should start by removing the word, “infidel”. The Divine gave us different religions because he likes diversity in all things; Different flowers grow on different soils, and he adores all of his multifaceted and colorful flowers, not preferring one flower over the other in his creation.

      • Sohag

        The Muslim should blame themselves for not being a real Muslim. A real Muslim is a light who will always spread light everywhere. Light of truth, light of humanity & humanitarian society, country & world.

      • Martin

        Nice one blame game always someone else’s fault.
        Suggest you let It lie.

      • APK

        As I remember, “The Custodian of two holy Mosques” (Saudi Monarch) invited the US and west to punish the Saddam Hussain on their behalf and paid Billions of Petrodollar for this.

        The days of Saudis are numbered………Wait and watch their destruction, it is on the way and imminent………

      • Truth

        Imran
        Lets put things in perspective.
        Christians don’t need to denounce violence because you will not find directives to violence in the New Testament. Not One. Nil, Zero. Unlike the Qyran and Hadith which have dozens – hundreds of such directives to violence.
        Secondly. The US invasion of Iraq to remove the tyrant dictator Saddam Hussein was a in the context of fear after 911, the threat of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction that Saddham Hussein had already used against his own people. Saddham Hussein had proven himself to be a threat to stability of the region.
        Yes it was and still is contentious but in the West after the Iraq invasion there were massive rallies in Western cities (tolerated by Western Governments) of millions of people protesting the war. Where are the rallies similar to anything like this in Muslim majority countries? Where are your mass rallies protesting against Islamic fascism?
        Or are you just jealous that the white Western world brought the rest of the world into the modern age.

    • Angry Citizen

      No every mosque should be closed, at least in Europe, and every muslim given two similar choices to what they give us.

      islam to kafir = Convert or Die. (ignore dhimmitude)

      Europe to islam = Leave or Die.

      Reply
      • Sameer

        Violence gives birth to Violence and the circle will go on inflicting live long pain to families and communities around the world. The pain is same for all humans. The job of a religious leaders is to stop bigotry. Their are mosques around the world who keep on saying – hell to kufrs ( non muslims). This makes it easy to kill people. Because you are the special ones and the other are lowly godless people. This has to change. Muslims should teach their children that other faiths are not enemies just because they follow some other God. The problem with many liberal Muslims is that they always make an excuse by saying America, UK had been doing it in the past. Come on… America or the west had not been going to war carrying a religious flag. And the Muslims in this countries have the best lives. While this terrorists carry the Flag of Islam all the time while attacking ….so who the world will find to blame ? Ultimately all this terrorism will be suicidal to any religion or community which practices it. The universal rule will prevail – what you give to others will fall back on you … sooner or later.

      • CarolynM

        Angry Citizen, you seem to harbor a lot of hatred for Muslims. Can you back up any of your assertions about the violence of the Islamic religion. And I don’t mean for you to cherry pick the verses out of the Qur’An to back up your senseless hatred. If you want to do that, let me go to the Bible and cherry pick some verses for you. Your assertion that all Muslims should be sent back to their own countries is both idiotic and asinine. I guess you think my daughter who was born and raised in the US and has never been to the Middle East should be sent somewhere?

  11. Tom

    ISIS may have been started by Muslims, but it’s growth is not the fault of Islam or anyone who follows it truly. The fault for its growth lies far more with Western governments who, rather than helping true Muslims defeat ISIS, have decided they will destroy it themselves and have made the problem far, far worse.

    We in the west should be uniting with Muslims and helping them defeat ISIS, not being so arrogant in thinking they aren’t capable and only we are. I’m white, from the UK but today extend the hand of friendship and unity to all true followers of Islam in the UK and abroad. We must help each other.

    Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      You are a fool, the Jews once held treaties with muslims only to have mad mo break the treaties and slaughter them.

      Offer a muslim the hand of friendship and watch them chop it off.

      Reply
      • CarolynM

        And the Christians slaughtered thousands of people who would not *be saved*.

  12. B Thomas

    Europe graciously welcomes the throngs who seek sanctuary from self inflicted horrors, only to be repaid by bloodshed. Take to the streets citizens of france! DEPORT the wolves in sheeps clothing! How many more must die needlessly? Let the PEACEFUL muslims return to THEIR homeland to denounce violence in the name of ALLAH! When they have surrendered their “holy” AK-47’s, perhaps they will be welcomed again.

    Reply
    • Tom Everett

      B Thomas, current thinking is at least one of the attackers is a French national, probably more.

      The attackers WANT YOU TO FEEL THAT WAY. Do not let this hatred spread. Most Muslims will be as appalled as you, and do not want to be part of any clash of civilisations.

      Reply
  13. Tom Everett

    ‘Not For You,’ I take it you’d be OK if people blamed you for Anders Breivik’s attacks on children then? After all, he’s one of yours.

    People are people. Most people, irrespective of their race or religion, will be shocked by this. This is an attempt to stir up hatred. We shouldn’t give the attackers what they want.

    Reply
    • Sandy

      Breivik was arrested, tried, condemned and is being punished for his actions.

      Are there any instances in which a Muslim terrorist has received similar treatment at the hands of a Muslim state?

      Reply
  14. Sohag

    Islam means peace, happiness & come to the world to rescue the humanity from all darkness, oppression, barbarism, brutality and a total destruction of life.
    Islam gives one to all every human being a humanic identity & right beyond any religion, nationality, ethnic group, race, tribe, language, gender, profession, belief, philosophy, culture or anything.
    The peoples who doing this brutal senseless killings are not Muslim at all, they are the destroyer of Islam & humanity. I hate those peoples from my heart. So disgusting.

    Reply
    • Aisha

      Wish people understood this and promoted this idea. It’s disgusting that people are focusing on their hatred for Muslims as opposed to those who have lost their lives.

      Reply
  15. Aisha

    I’m a Muslim and I think that the Paris attack is absolutely vile. ISIS does not represent Muslims, they are merely a group of radical idiots who most certainly do not represent Islamic views. My heart goes out to the families and friends who have lost their loved one(s). I am a pacifist so I do not agree with war etc but instead of drawing the attention on Muslims, surely we should show unity and respect for those who lost their lives.

    Reply
    • Emma

      You need to calm yourself down and think about what you’re saying. And also crack open a book.

      Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      Emma I know what I am saying because I have read the heathen books, have you?

      Reply
    • Luz

      I will pray for u. May the darkness in your heart one day turn to light. Your words have the same type of sentiment that those that join Isis have against non-Muslims. Take a moment to reflect on your thoughts. I’m a Catholic girls with many Muslim friends one in particular whom I consider a brother, just because we have different view on religion does not mean that we can’t love one an other.

      Reply
  16. Flavia

    That’s the most horrible thing that i heard in many years…there are terrorists in every religion…I’m not muslim but i can’t stand when someone treats them like killers or worst. You should be ashamed of saying something like that in the 21st century… I feel ashamed and truly sad for you and the ones like you that don’t respect life. It’s because of people like you that the world is like this.

    Reply
  17. Matthew Johnson

    The reaction of “Angry citizen” and others here is exactly what is intended by the extremists. Well done, you are behaving exactly as they want you to, fostering more hatred, more polarisation, more black and while Manichean thinking, more war, more bombing, more killing, in an endless cycle of escalation.

    The alternative is, I know, harder: actually getting beyond our immediate emotional reactions, taking the wider view, looking for commonalities not differences, being compassionate when it is possible to be so, striving for wisdom and avoiding shrill rhetoric. In fact, exactly the values that the Buddha, Jesus and (yes) Muhammed all advocated, and which also form the basis for European enlightenment secularism, actually.

    Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      No I have held this view for a long time having studied the barbarity of this pseudo religion, which is in fact nothing more than a cult of terror and death created by a mentally deranged psycopath.

      Reply
      • CarolynM

        And the Christians slaughtered thousands of people who would not *be saved*. And if you have studied this religion for many years as you say, why do you appear to be so uneducated?

      • Angry Citizen

        Carolyn learn to think for yourself instead of just believing what you have been told.

        I come from Science so I am educated to research, to question, and to critically analyse data. That is why I do not rely on a single translation of the quran, I have Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, The letters of the prophet Muhammad, Reliance of the Traveller and many more books, too many to mention.

        So no, I am not ignorant.

        From everything I have studied I have concluded that islam is a “Barbaric Supremacist Cult of Terror and Death”.

      • Science Citizen

        Angry Citizen,
        You claim to “come from science” yet you act without empirical evidence that supports your position. If you truly were a person of science then you would construct logical arguments and provide relevant and peer reviewed evidence that supports your position and not simply reply that you know. Yet I have not seen anything remotely support your assertions. I’d be interested to know exactly what your field of science is? “I am educated to research”…… What research have you done? Please provide us with a list of peer reviewed journals that are based on previous research that can support your assertions.

        Non Muslim Terrorism in the last 20 years:
        – Sarin gas attacks in the subways of Japan (not Muslim but a religious cult),
        – Mass shootings in Norway, 2011, where non Muslims were killed to stop Muslims (yeah work that one out),
        – Mass murder, rape and torture of Muslims by Christians for not converting to Christianity (happening in Africa now),
        – Bombings and murder by Christians in the US in the name of god against those they opposed…..

        All religions preach peace and love, it is the twisted interpretations by those that want personal power that preach hate and violence. Deal with people who commit crimes, not those who just happen to be part of the same religion. A lot of people who follow these evil people do so because they lack the education or have been conditioned to follow them believing what they are told…….same as Hitler and Germany.

        Now on the Christian front:
        – James Winstrom: Christian preacher who calls for the extermination of Jews in his religious sermons.
        – Christian Identity Church: preaches eradicating anyone who isn’t Christian, including gay, lesbians etc.
        – Kingdom Identity Ministery: preaches white male superiority over women, tries to convince white women not to have relationships with non whites, superiority of white people in accordance with the bible.
        – America’s Promise Ministeries which condones murder to further achieve it’s aims in supporting white people over all others.

        Religious Quotes from the Bible:
        Death for questioning
        Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

        Death for Cursing Parents
        All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

        Kill Nonbelievers
        They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

        Kill False Prophets
        If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, “You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord.” When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

        Kill Followers of Other Religions.
        If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

        Infidels and Gays Should Die
        So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behaviour, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God’s death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

        All Christians, all quotes from the Christian bible. Yes it does happen, but people don’t get the media coverage that Muslims do because it doesn’t sell ad space. Don’t get me wrong, there are evil people who act in the name of Islam, but it doesn’t make all of Islam evil.

        Yes I am a Christian but also as a person of Science, I simply don’t go by the mass media hype or attend the University of Facebook to get my information.

      • Angry Citizen

        What a surprise, I responded to Science Citizen and I get

        Angry Citizen
        November 15, 2015
        Your comment is awaiting moderation.

        Let’s see if this site has the INTEGRITY to post it.

      • Angry Citizen

        Science Citizen,

        You come here TRYING TO LOOK SMART, by using fancy words, requesting EMPIRICAL DATA, and DEMANDING I SHOW RESEARCH.

        ▪ Where is this provided IN ANY OTHER POST HERE?

        ▪ Did I claim to be AN ACADEMIC?

        No, I stated that I had studied. I don’t have to be an ACADEMIC to be educated. Are you suggesting that EVERY GRADUATE HAS TO BE PUBLISHED?

        Now, you will no doubt come back with but you stated “I am educated to research”, well yes, I was educated to research as that was the foundation for my studies. “I am educated to research” is not a statement of “I am a researcher”. Stop trying to be smart by playing with words, you are not looking smart, you are looking stupid.

        PT1

      • Angry Citizen

        Science Citizen,

        Non Muslim Terrorism in the last 20 years:

        – Sarin gas attacks in the subways of Japan (not Muslim but a religious cult),

        YES SMART BOY, A CULT. Are you suggesting that I am CULTIST?

        – Mass shootings in Norway, 2011, where non Muslims were killed to stop Muslims (yeah work that one out),

        Well thats one for you, now how many mass shootings are there in the name of islam?LET’S START WITH PARIS.

        – Mass murder, rape and torture of Muslims by Christians for not converting to Christianity (happening in Africa now),

        A ‘Backlash’ against islam’s PERSECUTION.

        – Bombings and murder by Christians in the US in the name of god against those they opposed…..
        BOMBINGS, do you want to compare lists?Give me a a few weeks to collate ALL of the data on BOMBINGS IN THE NAME OF islam.

        PT2

      • Angry Citizen

        Science Citizen posted and asked me to reply. I have attempted to reply now on several occasions. I have tried breaking my response up into parts in case they were too long, but no, my posts are being blocked.

        This site does not have the moral integrity for open debate, you just want islamic propoganda and apologies. This sums up islam perfectly, when you are incapable of debating or defending your beliefs you try to shut the other down, either by blocking them or abusing them, by calling them racist, ignorant and hater etc.

  18. Matthew Johnson

    Angry citizen, the fact that you have held your views for many years does not negate the fact that you are playing exactly into the extremists hands. You appear to suffer a logic as well as knowledge deficit here. Your view on Muhammed and his early followers is, minus the negative wording, exactly the same as the extremists hold. Yet they represent a small minority of muslim opinion, and in deed have no depth of islamic knowledge themselves, as many many muslim thinkers and scholars will tell you. They fail to contextualise everything in the texts, don’t understand anything about the long and sophisticated history of islamic epistemology, and indeed condemn the vast majority of Sunnis, and all Shias and Sufis, as unbelievers, whom they wrongly believe the Prophet said should all be killed ( that verse in the Quran being a particularly good example of the decontextualisation I refer to above). Remember that world wide the people who are bearing the brunt of their poisonous creed are other Muslims. What happened yesterday in Paris happens every week or two in Baghdad.
    This is not just a matter for spouting on the internet. It’s a very serious situation that is going to get worse long before it gets better. So may I suggest, in brotherhood and friendship, that you reflect upon all this a little more? Since holding to your position simply leads on to no solution other than total war between 1.6 billion muslims and everyone else. That won’t be pretty, and will in the meantime distract us all from tackling all the other issues we face i.e. ecology, poverty, and so on.

    Reply
    • Matthew Johnson

      Well unfortunately your mindset seems so biased that I am not sure that its worth responding but I feel obliged to try in the name of hope, peace, and understanding.

      A few examples;

      Slavery. Slavery was an accepted part of the world order in Muhammad’s time, but the Quran and Sunnah make it abundantly clear that freeing slaves was a religious duty wherever possible. See where you can find that explicitly expressed anywhere in the Bible please, or Buddhists texts, etcetera/ Or indeed in Plato and Aristotle, widely held to be foundational texts for western culture.

      Torture. So where in the Quran is that promoted, pray? There a few Hadith of highly dubious veracity that you might quote, and we don’t have the time to go into the whole science of Hadith criticism here, but suffice it to say that I’ve never met a respected muslim scholar who thinks there is any legal justification for torture.

      Extortion? Blackmail? Really? Where is that promoted? And bestiality and necrophilia are specifically condemned.

      Pillaging. this was entirely normal practice across the ancient world and I believe that the Muslim were the first to control it by imposing taxation on conquered peoples so that such monies a could be shared between the conquering troops rather than the usual practice of pillaging, rape etcetera.

      Yes of course it did not always look like a UN peacekeeping force (although those have not always been entirely above various form of corruption in fact). But most serious historians (read Fred Donner, for a starter – a non muslim) have concluded that generally Islam was spread with surprisingly little violence and indeed its widely tolerant and hamlets vision was often welcomed as a better alternative than the previous dispensations under Roman or Persian rule.

      Again , you seem to miss the central point that your version of the teachings of Islam are identical with the version that the extremists hold, and antithetical to the erudite, multi-facted, and scholarly elaboration that has occurred in 1400 years of islamic intellectual history.

      Reply
    • Brien

      MJ: Terminology must change!
      Up to now we have objected logically to being erroneously referenced to as ‘racists.
      Now, we need to start correctly referring to the deniers and apologists for what they truly are under the rules of war – they are collaborators.
      MJ: This is you! All your answers were pathetic excuses from the past. We don’t care what was done in the past. Islam is still doing it now!
      You and your apologist ilk are the problem; your foul and damned religions/mythologies are the problem.
      The actual apologies above are too bloody late and you still are doing absolutely nothing pro-active to stop your ‘brothers’.

      Reply
      • Malik Matiyahu

        How do you know I am ‘”doing absolutely nothing”? exactly? And it might be worth just recalling that many of these hateful comments ARE BEING FREELY PUBLISHED ON A MUSLIM WEBSITE!! So much for muslims hate free speech etc.

        So according to your logic because I am arguing that the IS interpretation of Islam is a distortion, and that much more nuanced and peaceable interpretations are in fact held by the majority of muslims, that makes me a collaborator? What utter drivel. It wouldn’t even make the grade for a sixth former’s essay.

        I never called you a racist. I’ve never met you but have no reason to think you are one. For all I know you are black or asian or something.

        What you are doing is ascribing to an ideology that wants to divide the word neatly into good guys and bad guys – with all muslims being the bad guys. Well guess what? The world is a lot more complex than that. Your ideology is the same as IS, and level of hate you express not far off it. I am sure you are not really like that in every day life. I mean you must I assume interact with muslims at least occasionally. I feel fairly sure that this level of bile you express here is not actually how you behave when passing a muslim out shopping, or whatever? So why don’t you calm down. Many non muslims on this site are being very open minded and are actually trying to increase their understanding, not just spouting bilious hatred.

    • Omair

      Dear Angry Citizen
      Have you actually read the Quran? How do you claim that it has no love or mercy? I believe you have done selective reading and read the Quran without understanding the context. If one is a violent person and reads something out of context, then he can use it in any way to justify his his evil actions and vile agenda.
      I am sure, you would be aware that Muslims pray daily. But guess what? In the Quran’s verse 107:4, God actually curses those who pray. For someone like you, reading out of context, would take this verse literally. But someone who understands the context would know that God is cursing those who are a heedless of their prayers.
      Not sure I hope you read your respective holy book in context. I do not see any difference in yours & these terrorists’ hate mongering.
      Kindly stop painting all the peaceful Muslims with the same brush of terrorism.
      I am a Muslim and condemn all the terrorist groups such as I.S. etc. My heart goes out to all those who died in Paris and to their families who lost their loved ones.
      Peace!

      Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      Omair,

      ▪ Have you actually read the Quran?

      Yes I have read the quran and I have several translations to be fair.
      ———-

      ▪ How do you claim that it has no love or mercy?

      There is love and mercy to muslims, however, it is all HATE TOWARDS non-muslims

      Another explanation ‘ABROGATION’, do we have to go down this road to?
      ———-

      ▪ I believe you have done selective reading and read the Quran without understanding the context.

      ‘POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK’

      ▪ I am sure, you would be aware that Muslims pray daily. But guess what? In the Quran’s verse 107:4, God actually curses those who pray.

      ‘LIAR’

      107:4
      So woe unto those performers of Salat (prayers) (hypocrites),

      107:5
      Who delay their Salat (prayer) from their stated fixed times,

      107:6
      Those who do good deeds only to be seen (of men),

      107:7
      And refuse Al-Ma’un (small kindnesses e.g. salt, sugar, water, etc.).

      THIS IS NOT A CURSE FOR PRAYING.

      THIS IS CURSE TO THOSE WHO DO NOT PRAY WHEN THEY ARE ORDERD TO, AND TO THOSE WHO JUST DO GOOD DEEDS IN ORDER TO BE SEEN DOING GOOD DEEDS.

      YOU ARE THE CHERRY PICKER AND DECEIVER
      ———-

      ▪ Kindly stop painting all the peaceful Muslims with the same brush of terrorism.

      WHEN YOU STOP LYING, DECEIVING AND PLAYING THE INNOCENT VICTIM AND START ACTING THEN I WILL.

      Reply
  19. Justin

    Your words are comforting… Would you say the same about the Muslims who are stabbing innocent people in Israel? Does every Muslim you know condemn the acts of Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas)? Because many more than 30% have expressed support for that barbarism.

    Reply
  20. Please explain

    I thought I’d come on here and take a look at what Muslims were saying about the latest atrocities in Paris yesterday. Away from the usual media sources. Its good to see so many heartfelt messages on here. In the past I’ve seen leading Muslims on the tv news refusing to condem atrocities. Which in the past has made me deeply sceptical of your relgion.

    As an atheist, I see much of the misery of the world committed by religions. At this present time I see some truly horrendous and barbaric acts being committed in the name of Muslim religion by a group called ‘Islamic state’. So i summise that some of their beliefs must come from your religion? Could you please try and persuade me that I should not hold a negative view of Islam?

    II would like to hear it from the horses mouth. So to speak!

    Reply
    • Malik Matiyahu

      OK, invitation accepted!

      Its hard to know where to begin as Islam is a huge body of accumulated knowledge, ethics etc. But here’s a starter for 10 thats is relevant to the specific issues at hand as well as I hope going to the core of the teachings. Obviously this is just one Muslim’s view..and as we say, God knows best. But I don’t think what I have to say would be contradicted by any but a tiny minority of zealots.

      While the Quran (the foundational source believed by Muslims to be a direct revelation from God to the Prophet) accepts that war may be acceptable in some circumstances, there are strict rules governing its conduct. These are explicitly stated in the Quran and include the non harming of non combatants, women, christian monks and priests. So this would make the conduct of war as specified in the foundational text considerably more morally regulated then the type of wars we in the west have engaged in or perpetrated over the last century.

      Then we have the letters of protection written down at the dictation of the Prophet by various companions firmly stating his protection of other religious communities (particularly Christians) and specifying anyone that attacked them, including a professed muslim, was an enemy of God and the Prophet.

      Another point that shows the inherent pluralism and humanism of Islam was the Prophet and Quran’s insistence that all people of all colours, and of both genders, are equal before God. I believe this is the first time in a religious text that such principals are stated explicitly though they may well be implicit in earlier religious texts such as Christian, Buddhist etc. This generally plurals and humanist approach was what, in many places and times, fostered the flowing of societies that made great achievements in the arts, philosophy, mathematics, optics, medicine and other areas of human endeavour.

      The whole point of Islam is that God is the highest value, to which one owes ultimate submission – and not to politicians, kings, film stars, etc – and equally not money, power or fame. Islam is the call away from idolatory of such things and to making God, the source of Justice, Mercy, Life and Love, the moral axis of one’s life.

      Finally, and vitally, this submission is a moral choice that each human is invited to make ( it has no point if its obligatory). “There is no compulsion in religion” says the Quran. The Prophet is sent only “as a warner” and a”‘mercy to the worlds”. If people chose not to heed the call, that is their choice and they must face the consequences.

      This may all seem a long way from ISIS, and it is. That’s why so many muslims here on this site and elsewhere are vociferously making their grief felt at these terrible acts perpetrated in the name of their religion.

      Reply
      • Brien

        Not one word had a scrap of logic or common sense; it was all god talk. You need to prove your claims of a god first, and that you, and all the other god religions, have yet to do!

      • Malik Matiyahu

        Brien, one of the most tedious this about entering into these discussion is feeling obliged to answer your oh so commonly made comment. Its so obviously wrong headed that its surprising that anyone still puts it out there, but there it is.

        So;

        1. There was absolutely nothing illogical about my response. You appear to think that logic is the same as empirical proof. I suggest you acquaint yourself with an elementary primer on logic. It won’t take you long to get that lack of empirical evidence and logical consistency are two totally separate things ( though they may complement each other just like salt and pepper, say).

        2. God by definition is beyond the capacity of our normal sensory apparatus to detect because by definition He/She/It is prior to the sensory world. So whether or not God exists is not something that can be settled by recourse to empirical/scientific data.

        3. You appear to be of the opinion that only something that can be demonstrated by such empirical methods can possibly be valid.

        4. Unfortunately, that belief of yours itself falls foul of its own criterion i.e. you can not prove the statement “only something that can be empirical demonstrated is true” is itself not something that can be demonstrated by empirical means.

        5. Which means that your belief is actually based upon an act of faith.

        6. Just like my belief in God is.

        You may need to think about this for a bit as it cuts across across what I suspect is a long held dear assumption of yours. One that just happens to be erroneous.

        And do use a book on logic to check my argumentation, you will find it passes with flying colours.

      • Please explain

        Thanks for your reply Malik. I’m afraid most of that didn’t make much to me. I’ve been doing some further reading though. And I will ask my question again in simplistic terms.

        Are the people in ISIS muslims and are they interpreting the word of the Quran literally?

      • Please explain

        Dissapointing to have no lucid responses to a simple question.
        I took the trouble to come on here to find some answers.

        What conclusions am I expected to draw from this?

    • Aly Balagamwala

      Dear ‘Please Explain’

      Their views do come from our religion. From a twisted, out-of-context, selective interpretation of our religious texts.

      There are plenty of articles on this site for you to understand ISIS and similar groups.

      Best Regards
      Aly

      *Comment above is posted in a personal capacity and may not reflect the official views of MuslimMatters or its staff*

      Reply
    • Malik Matiyahu

      Dear Please explain, hoping you are still on this site?

      Not sure what was not lucid about my previous reply? People seem to object that I am attempting to give a “potted” summary and employing terms like “God”… which would like being asked to explain Einstein’s general theory without using the term “Gravity”. But in answer to your subsequent question, many muslims say that IS are not muslims, understandably because they don’t share their outlook. Personally, I don’t agree, I think that as muslims we have to accept the sad fact IS are muslims, and tackle them head on as to their distorted interpretations ( alarmingly similar to Angry citizen’s distorted interpretations in fact). Clearly a military response is also needed and looks as if finally is going to be done properly rather than the half hearted attempt so far. The other thing that needs challenge is the Wahabi doctrine of Saudi Arabia which is just the same as IS minus the violence. Truffle is we are bit such there cause of that small detail of the oil… However If we unite all moderate muslims and the rest against these extremists we will win. If we allow the hateful views of some on this site to prevail, we will end up with the Manichean division IS seek, with endless conflict and a possible armageddon type scenario. Sounds like that what some on this site actually want. Which is rather sad.

      Reply
  21. Reason

    It’s nice to hear all these sentimental texts and comments. However, talk is cheap. Action is what matters. I want to see all the Muslims on this site who have expressed their condemnation for the terrorist attacks in Paris come out into the streets en masse and publicly demonstrate by openly condemning ISIS. You have to do more than just hide behind a computer keyboard. Non-Muslims are very well aware of the doctrine of ‘taqqiyah’ and misleading the unbelievers. If you don’t rally and put your money where your mouth is, your words are just empty and meaningless.

    Reply
  22. WAJiD

    Hi all,

    To those defending the Muslim community – what can we say? I’m amazed and grateful that you are able to look past everything and still see us for what we are … fellow human beings. People like you give us hope in all the darkness.

    To those who feel that the Muslim community or Islam is the problem – what can I say? Nothing I say right now will change your mind. But I promise you this, we will not return hate with hate and fire with fire. We have problems – many of them big – but we will not stop working to build a better world together with everyone else and maybe one day, you will shake the hand of friendship being offered.

    To those Muslims who are worried about the coming storm – it is your anguish at the suffering of others (whether in Paris or Beirut or elsewhere) that you differentiate yourself from those who feel none. Use this feeling to do what Allah has always told us to do change ourselves so that our situation can change. The world is counting on us.

    Reply
    • Huck

      There is a saying, “actions speak louder than words”. Many non-Muslims in the world feel that many Muslims speak out against radicals of their faith but do very little in terms of ACTION.
      Many wonder, “Where are the massive marches of Muslims in cities around the world in protest against these radicals?” They ask, “Why do the well-meaning Muslims seem to sit there speaking condemnations but do not stand as one against these hateful people?”
      Muslims around the world should each do their part to root out all the extremists among them and condemn them publicly in their own communities and in local and national media.
      Without a strong and very visible campaign among the everyday people of Islam, the non-Muslims of the world will continue to lose faith and trust in this great arab culture.

      Reply
      • Malik Matiyahu

        Agree with you largely and I think such marches specifically by muslims would be a good idea and make a powerful point. However I wonder if this would be allowed given the possible issues of the far right counter marching, and also it being a highly tempting target for the extremist themselves?

        One small but important point though. Islam is not an “Arab culture” any more than Christianity is a Judaic one. Only 20 per cent of the world’s muslims are arabs. The most populous Muslim county in the world is Indonesia and there are significant numbers of Muslims in China, Africa, Central Asia, and of course the West. Some of the most influential muslim thinkers were non Arabs: Al-Ghazali, possibly the most important person in the evolution of Sunni Islam after the Prophet himself, was from central Asia for example.

      • francis Ayala

        I would like to add that there was a mass demonstration in Afghanistan against Taliban who beheaded the 9 year old girl and her family. I was so very surprised and happy that they took a stand. They had far more to fear over there, I think, in doing so.

    • Michael

      Name a single ‘moderate’ Islam country where an atheist or apostate can live without fear.

      Islam has already had its reformation — that is ISIS.

      Moderate Islam must somehow experience the enlightenment.

      The problem is that the enlightenment was not a religious transformation, but rather a cultural transformation. My observation is that Islam is unable to distinguish religion from culture. This may mean Muslims are incapable of achieving the reflection required for the enlightenment.

      I have read many heartfelt comments here rejecting these murders and those before (week after week after week .. this has been going on for decades). I believe they are sincere. Unfortunately it is clear that ‘moderate’ Islam is not committed to doing anything about the radicals. Yes, there are the Q’ran quoting games — but the problem is that this perversion of Islam (if indeed it is a perversion) is still seen as Islam. No one will say ISIL is some other religion etc. altogether. Can ‘moderate’ muslims understand just how deeply this goes?

      I am an atheist. The simple truth is that any free-thinker in any Islamic country would be discriminated against, flogged, or killed. As a reader in this blog, if you do not understand the gravity of this observation then you do not understand why it is a question whether Islam in any form can be part of a modern society.

      Put another way — wake me when Malaysia and Indonesia and Pakistan and Bangladesh, etc. are committing troops to destroy ISIL and ‘radical’ Islamists.

      Make no mistake, I do not question the sincerity of your shock and horror. The challenge here is to reach deeply and ask if Islam itself can ever be brought to enlightenment and respect for others. The evidence of the last decades is not encouraging.

      Reply
    • Luz

      My prayers are with your community. I hope and pray that one day all of this hatred is behind us. To all my Muslin friends please forgive those who have such anger towards you, I hope that soon they will see that we r all together in fighting this evil hiding behind religion.

      Reply
      • Malik Matiyahu

        God bless you. Such a simple comment with such truth in it.

  23. Stephen

    The logic certainly appears to be compelling. Do not examine closely what Muslims are taught in Madrassas or Mosques because no “real Muslim” would do this. The “no true Scotsman” fallacy. It is a rhetorical flourish meant to deflect criticism.

    Emwazi or “Jihadi John” – who has since been incinerated – came from a “quiet Muslim family.” He was recognizable as a Muslim before he decided to sever the heads of infidels. More than a few Muslims would have viewed him as one of their own.

    I find it strange that Muslims end their statements with “peach be upon him.” Muslims do not live in peace. Muslims war with Hindus in South Asia. Muslims war with Christians in Sudan, Nigeria, the Philippines, and Bosnia. Muslims war with Jews in Isreal. Muslims war with Yazidis in Iraq. Muslims blow up Buddhist religious monuments in Afghanistan. If there is no “other” to fight – in regions “cleansed” centuries ago – Muslims find reasons to war with each other. Sunnis kill Twelver Shiites in Iraq and Alawis in Syria.

    Reply
  24. Malik Matiyahu

    PS trying to reply to Wajid, last two comments above but website puts them in wrong order.

    Reply
  25. Brien

    NO! That is your delusion. Do you follow your Koran and the Hadiths? If the answer is yes, then you and the extremists follow the same rules – they just use guns!

    Reply
  26. Monique

    There are extremists in every culture, religion and race on earth. You cannot blame all for the despicable actions of a few. I am not religious but I am not stupid enough to believe that because of some evil twisted scum, all people of that religion should be blamed. I am saddened by the complete lack of empathy and humanity in so many people nowadays.

    Reply
    • Please explain

      I don’t think many people are blaming moderate Muslims for the actions of ISIS. And I am certainly not. But to a non religious such as myself it is becoming harder to see the religion of Islam in a good light. Especially as the Muslim community seems to do little to rid itself of these elements.

      I have spoken with a very old friend who is a muslim. Albeit someone who is also a very free thinking person as well. The simple answer he gives me is ‘Islam is a medieaval religion that has not reformed and is at odds with the modern world’.

      Of course all religions have people that hold extreme views. But it is the Religion of Islam that produces people who slaughter innocent people in 2015 because of how they interpret the words of a book written centuries ago,

      A question for you: what would an extremist Buddhist be? Would they be slaughtering non buddhists? No. Chances are they would be trying to spread peace in the world and avoid stepping on ant in the street!

      Reply
      • Historian112

        You are mistaken. Look at Myanmar, a Buddhist country. There, Buddhists are committing genocide against a Muslim minority group. Also, prior to World War ll, many Buddhist monks in Japan urged war. Buddhism is not higher than other traditions and practices.

      • francis Ayala

        I believe he was referring lightly to Buddhist Doctrine, which is pure form peace and self inquiry. He may have implied the founder of Islam was participating in ancient wars and disgruntlement s, and today’s Islam still reflects outdated ideas (because he forbade changes?).

      • Brien

        Yes, we are blaming the ‘moderates’ for a number of reasons.
        Their apathy makes them as guilty as the antagonists – no excuse! Prayers are useless here!
        Next, the so-called ‘moderates’, which are the vast majority, also believe in all the hadiths and surrahs and the Koran, exactly as do the terrorists and ISIS; it’s only a matter of degree and getting your hands on a weapon.
        We do not see you taking your aggressive Imams to task and publicly correcting them during their Friday rants.
        Yes, you are all to be blamed and are judged according to your actions or lack thereof!
        You have declared the war, you have attacked the very foundations of freedom and liberty for all equally, you have rejected human rights as they have been defined by a universally minded standard, you have declared that Islam is not compatible with democracy.
        You are not collateral damage if you do nothing to help eradicate your anachronistic attitudes and backward laws and primitive tribal cultures.
        The ‘west’ has already grown out of the dark ages, and has had its enlightenment – get moving towards a modern philosophy or get out!

      • Aly Balagamwala

        Hmmmm so your thesis here is that ‘moderates’ say most of the people who are Muslims just need to get their hands on a weapon and they will stop being moderates and start coming after you?

        That is like saying that majority of Christians if they get their hands on a weapon will start acting like the Ku Klux Klan. Hey y’all follow the same text, y’all just not ‘activated’ yet.

        Please take a deep breath and think over it.

        *Comment above is posted in a personal capacity and may not reflect the official views of MuslimMatters or its staff*

  27. humanity

    ‘Not for you’, you have the opportunity to continue supporting hatred, fear, violence and ignorance – or – you have the opportunity to look within yourself and connect with your humanity. You have the opportunity to connect with love, compassion, empathy and courage. You have the right to be free of the lies you’ve been fed.

    This world doesn’t need more hatred, ignorance and disrespect. This world needs all people to connect with their humanity irrespective of their ‘differences’. Diversity is not something we should fear, but something we should embrace within the full spectrum of all that makes us human. Together we are not powerless, we all have the ability to make this choice.

    What we do need is to put an end to our compliance with violent organisations – including our own governments – which serve to further dehumanise us by working for their corporate masters.

    It is time to stand in solidarity as humans and to value the lives we have by telling these violent organisations we demand more. We demand the right to be human, the right to joy, the right to love, the right to compassion, the right to learn from our mistakes, the right to healthy community and the right to be free.

    Reply
  28. Mudloff

    I am a Christian and have studied the bible,Koran and some of Buddas teachings.It is this kind of ignorance that is the problem in the world.(For all you haters) Remember the crusades,the pope during ww2,ect,ect.All religions have their evil (for lack of better wording) so get your heads out of your asses and lets work together to stop this madness!!!

    Reply
    • Jedi Sentinel

      You write as if the Spanish inquisition, crusades are bad thing when they are not.

      The Spanish inquisition was necessary due to restive people determined to create trouble in Spain and turn Spain back to the Muslim invaders.

      The crusades were necessary to defend Europe against Muslim aggression. If not for the crusades, the whole of Europe would have been subjugated under Islam. Have you not read of the battle of Lepanto and the siege of Vienna?

      Have you not read about the cruelty of the Japanese soldiers who slaughtered innocent Chinese civilians in South East Asia and China? The Japanese caused a lot of suffering in all the lands they attacked. The atomic bombs were a response to what they started.

      Islam has been the aggressor ever since Muhammad moved to Medina.
      Read about it at thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

      Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      You are not a Christian, infact I am doubting if many on his with Western names defending this VILE CULT are actually whom hey claim to be. muslims in disguise practicing what they are good at, LYING, DECEIVING AND PLAYING THE VICTIM.

      If you were Christian you would know what the Crusades were for, TO SAVE WHAT WAS LEFT OF CHRISTIANITY FROM THESE SAVAGES, AT THE TIME OF THE CRUSADES OVER [75%] OF CHRISTIANITY HAD BEEN SAVAGELY DESTROYED.

      Reply
  29. Tawhidul Islam

    Asslalamualaikum…
    Muslim are not terrorist and terrorist are not Muslim… I doubt they are even human…

    Reply
  30. firas

    all these speech and prayer have no sense daech committed these last attacks in beirut france ,syria using… bombes guns and military arms produced all in non islamic countries , this is not related to religion this is Criminal gangs act mixed with corruption and politic plan like mafia , aryan brotherhood, mexican and black gangs in america neo-nazi in germany and Austria they kill, they make terrorist acts for their own goals or for and no matter the place, these organizations need a framework to work through some choose the race ,some choose the culture and other choose the religion like daech , david koresh and his sect …. terrorist kills people around the world each day and we have to find the reason of these act , the corruption the business plan and politic conflict

    Reply
  31. Guy

    Glad you are against ISIS who are murdering more muslims than non-muslims … but this is nothing new .. muslims throughout the world murder more muslims than non-muslims ever do (Burma excepted) and wherever Islam is the majority faith bigotry, hatred and ignorance are the norm.
    If the rest of the world used islamic justice the it would be be fully justified in executing 127 innocent muslims chosen at random because this is how muslims react.
    This fake shock and horror is outrageous when most muslims support ISIS, Al Queda even if they would not commit atrocities themselves.
    Islam is a religion born from a war mongering hate filled prophet and nothing is more natural to a muslim than committing murder in the name of your religion.
    If an attack on one muslim is an attack on all muslims even if they are murderous scum like ISIS why can’t the rest of the world feel fully justified reacting the same way muslims do?

    Reply
    • Brien

      Terminology must change!
      Up to now we have objected logically to being erroneously referenced to as ‘racists.
      Now, we need to start correctly referring to the deniers and apologists for what they truly are under the rules of war – they are collaborators.

      Reply
  32. Joe Valasek

    Thanks to everyone for these breathtakingly compassionate and most impressively erudite comments. Thanks even to Angry Citizen for his heartfelt, if extremely saddening words.
    My greatest hope is that well meaning people of all our olanet can look past the injustices of the past and unite in building a truly peaceful future for our children.

    Reply
    • omega

      When Muslims will acknowledge that The Prophet pbuh did in fact order the massacre of the Jewish tribes of Medina, did in fact order the assassination of political opponents such as Ka’ab bin Ashraf and Asma bint Marwan, did in fact launch surprise attacks on other non muslim Arabian tribes, did in fact during his life time try to organise and expedition to conquer Constantinople (all this things are attested in the sahih hadith) , then perhaps will I take the protestations of sympathy and goodwill seriously.

      Reply
  33. All talk no action

    I for one don’t believe ALL muslims are terrorists…to believe that your as crazy as these retards that are doing these acts..but what they are guilty of is sitting by and not speaking out in a united voice… not simply comment support on some website… go out and instead of organising marches about how badly done by you are, march against these atrocities…show the world your different…hunt them down… these people have given your religion a very bad image, go fix it!!!!!… but don’t blame us for the way we now perceive Muslims…blame your own fellow muslims!

    Reply
    • Please explain

      Great atrocities are being committed in the name of your religion and all you can do is call people who are appalled this ‘brainwashed haters’?

      Seriously I took the time to come to this forum to try and find out a little more and the responses are disappointing to say the least.

      Reply
      • Please explain

        No. I’m not ‘left wing apologist’. I’m an atheist with a dim view of organised religion and a particularly dim view of Islam.

        However I did not come here to inject my personal views in order to antagonise Muslims with negative comments of their religion here. I simply came to ask a few questions, give people a chance to respond in the (increasingly vain) hope that somebody here might try to change my mind!

      • Angry Citizen

        Sorry I originally posted this in the wrong comment.

        Please explain,

        I respect your feelings and beliefs, however, the things that I have said need to be said.

        How much longer are we expected to sit back and take this? Why is it that the World is continually protecting islam from critism and continually trying to enforce the view that this is a “religion of peace” inspite of all the hate speech and murdering being committed every day in the name of islam?

        Do Hindus go around daily demanding respect while claiming to be peaceful?

        Do Seikhs go around daily demanding respect while claiming to be peaceful?

        Do Buddhists go around daily demanding respect while claiming to be peaceful?

        Do Taoists go around daily demanding respect while claiming to be peaceful?

        Do Christians go around daily demanding respect while claiming to be peaceful?

        Do Jews go around daily demanding respect while claiming to be peaceful?

        I could go on with just about every religion in the world and the answer would be NO.

        The only religion that demands this is islam and if they don’t get it then they cry victim or turn around and murder innocents while claiming “we are peaceful”.

        This ideology HAS TO BE CHALLENGED, and we must also stand up to our governments and say we will not tolerate it any more.

        Why should islam be held higher than any other religion?

        Why should there be seperate and special recording of crimes against muslims?

        Jews suffer the most as victims of hate crimes in the UK so why haven’t Jews been given more protection?

        Why are muslims given special consideration over Hindus or Seikhs?

        They suffer racism just the same, they are also attacked for the crimes committed by muslims. Look at the backlash over the muslim paedophile rape gangs, the government, police and press would not identify this as a ‘muslim crime’ instead they labelled it an ‘Asian crime’ and therefore ALL Asians were blamed and targeted.

        I wish you good luck in your search for answers and as I said, I respect you for being open minded.

  34. Jay

    I have just read every post here. I am confused. Can somebody from the muslim community help me with this? – Impartial;ly, with a reasoned mind. No bigotry, just common sense. I am an atheist. I have no grudge to bear, no axe to grind. I have not read the Koran. The Muslims I know all want the same for their family, the same for their community as I do without a God to guide me. I respect their views and do not seek to push my own, that way, we all get along.

    So here’s my question guys:
    I simply need to know how two such polar views, one of ‘peace and light’ and one of ‘pure evil, intolerance and hatred’ come from the same book? The same teachings? The same pages and teaching?

    How can that be guys?

    How can one man read the book and pick up a flower, while another man picks up a gun? –

    How can a God of love fill his followers with hate?

    Where exactly does the understanding of a verse or teaching take the route of love and hate…what are the words that so confuse your followers as to destroy the lives of thousands of people all over the world?

    Does the Koran condone kidnap, murder and terror not?

    Where are those words that condemn or condone?

    Either one must be there in the Koran.

    If not, why is it happening in the name of Islam?

    if it does condone these acts of murder just because they are different faiths (though the gunmen/Jihadis cannot know if that is the case) How does that fit with a God of Love and how in the case it does condone these acts, can any Muslim anywhere try and claim a moderate religion?

    Gentlemen of all persuasions and beliefs, I have come here to try and make sense of what happened in Paris last night and in Beirut too.

    Please help me understand with reasoned responses. No hate please, no generalisation. Teach me. Help me understand.

    Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      Hello Jay,

      I fully understand where you are coming from. I was once the same as you, confused and seeking understanding, that is why I read their books and studied their faith before passing judgement.

      I will not comment further, I will wait for a muslim to answer your questions as I too want to see how they respond.

      I wish you luck with your understanding, you are doing the right thing studying both sides before passing judgement, unfortunately, I cannot promise that you will like the truth.

      Reply
      • Fred

        Dear Angry Citizen you may be correct. But is your attitude counter-productive. Muslims can honestly believe albeit in error. After all whose understanding is perfect. We must love our neighbour – do good to those who persecute us. Hating their religious practices should not spread over into hating individual Muslims. But to Muslims I have two questions – why are nearly all Islamic states totalitarian failed states? Why do you feel it is OK to persecute Muslims who convert to Christianity or other religions?

    • Carolyn

      It’s not the religion that is the problem, it’s the extremists. The same things can be found in the Christian bible. Angry citizen also needs to learn more about Islam before he begins sharing his knowledge. A quote from one of his posts, “To be a muslim you MUST follow the Quran, the Hadiths and Sira as encompassed in the collected Sunnahs”. For a well educated person who has studied Islam, your are showing a good bit of your ignorance hre. Can you please explain to me what a Sira is? I think not, because it doesn’t exist. He doesn’t appear to realize that Surah is simply a chapter of the Qu’Ran.

      Reply
      • Angry Citizen

        Caroline yet again picking up on words, so maybe I have mispelt a word as there are so many spellings, so I suggest that it is you who needs education.

        A quote from one of his posts, “To be a muslim you MUST follow the Quran, the Hadiths and Sira as encompassed in the collected Sunnahs”.

        Right let’s look at YOUR IGNORANCE.

        When I said Sira no I was not confused, I did not mean Surah. I know full well what a Surah is, it is made up of Aya (singular) and Ayat (plural), hence Surah 9 Aya 9:5.

        Sira, Sirah, Sirat or whatever is you want to call it is biography, as in Sirat-un-Nabi (Life of the Prophet).

        Any more SMART ARSE COMMENTS YOU IGNORAMUS?

    • Ibn Islam

      Okay Mr atheist I am a Muslim who strives to follow the teachings of Qur’an and the sunnah. I will keep this short because it is a very simple answer to your question.
      Muslims in the west live a life of comfort and peace for the most part. However; Muslims in the “Muslim” lands are oppressed, under occupation, humiliated for decades. They are facing injustice upon injustice by governments who are supported and protected by your governments. Now, the pot is boiling. Millions are dead, displaced, raped, etc. Islam doesn’t mean peace it means submission to Allah the God, Creator of heavens and earth. Islam is not a pacifist religion as some people here want to claim. (they do that to appease you so tgey can live comfortably) There is a time for peace and war in Islam just like with any secular country. Right now what we are seeing are actions resulting from decades of experiences with brutality. Some people act out of overbearing anger, and others have declared war on all those who have aided the oppressors or are directly involved in it. They are using verses for a of time war. That’s my analysis of the situation. Hope this helps.

      Reply
    • HA

      Hi Jay,

      I typically never respond to these things especially considering the multitude of responses that typically arise after such a tragedy, but I think your question is one that I felt compelled to respond to as you genuinely wish to understand how 2 polar opposite views can be showcased from the same source.

      As a muslim (not a scholar mind you) I can only attempt to give you my understanding and hope to perhaps give a differing view.

      The diverging views that arise I believe ultimately arises from interpretation – when one tries to understand islam/quran/sunnah – due to the nature of it, when reading a translation relating to it, you’re not actually reading a translation per se, what you’re reading is an interpretation and interpretation and requires context, and context requires understanding – something many don’t seem to appreciate. As a consequence there is an enormous spectrum of views within the Muslim community about many issues, many valid, and many are nonsense hence your question “How can one man read the book and pick up a flower, while another man picks up a gun? “. As a Muslim in the west there doesn’t appear to be a real credible Muslim spokesperson or entity that represents that valid portion or at least that is viewed as such, and so what often happens is you get a disparate collection of views that leaves many people bewildered and angry, and you get many questions like the following:

      Why aren’t so called moderate muslims protesting against the atrocities that these idiots keep on committing?
      I can’t speak for everyone else, but me personally and every muslim i know, every time, every time an outrage like this occurs it fills my/their hearts with a combination of anger, frustration and sadness. Anger at a despicable atrocity on innocent people, frustration that people use and represent islam as a tool in such an unthinkable manner and sadness at the loss that occurs. Like normal sane people, we have compassion but are also at the forefront for reprisals. That is understandable given what continues to occur under the name of islam. The reason I believe most don’t protest is, what’s the point? Do you think that would be properly represented? Aside from being misconstrued as a nutter myself, if I for instance protested with a few thousand Muslims against such a despicable action as has been done… do you know what would normally happen, a few nutters with a few banners and a loudspeaker would probably go to the front and pretty much undermine and misrepresent the whole basis of the protest and would be reported as such, its saddening.

      Another element that has also contributed to a feeling of anger I believe by some – is that some legitimate criticisms previously were held back due to some well meaning but unfortunately unhelpful political correctness (eg in reference to “Angry Citizens comments” muslim peadophiles in Rochdale – instead of punishing them as the criminals that they were, it was not done so and thus allowed to continue and an injustice perpetuated, when they should have been punished as the criminals that they were, their religion should have no basis in their punishment)

      And so on, and so on, ultimately there are too many questions, I’m not going to quote specific verses for or against particular actions or particular issues as because historically all that happens is ultimately an online battle with keyboard warriors everywhere, it becomes like tic tac toe – no winners, so I’m not going to engage in that.

      Ultimately Jay the committing of terrorist acts, kidnap murder etc is considered by consensus in the Islamic community as unacceptable, and this is something the Muslim community as an entity needs to work on to separate the narrative that has built up globally. Unfortunately the voice of reason has seldom overshadowed the voice of extremism from either end.

      Reply
  35. david778

    In relation to the sub-title of this page (‘a series of six alleged terrorist attacks’), excuse me, there is nothing ‘alleged’ about the attacks. They were acts of religiously inspired Islamist terror nothing else. The perpetrators and their supporters have no doubt what they were doing and why. If you don’t recognise these acts for what they are, then however indignant you claim to be, you are in a state of denial about the problems in your religious tradition. There are texts in the Quran and Hadiths that can easily be taken as justifying what occurred, and not much that cannot be contextualised by fanatics to suit their agendas. The difficulty here is that even for the ‘moderate majority’, every word from these books proceed directly from God and are valid for all time, rather than being seen as in part a transitory phase in human spiritual spiritual development, one that should be superceded. This has what has happened in liberal Judaism and Christianity. Unfortunately, as far as I can see there does not seem to be enough room within contemporary Islam for this kind of critical engagement with the foundational texts. This is indicated by the ambivalence and defensiveness of your title, which as long as it continues will cause problems in the position of Islam in Europe and America.

    Reply
  36. Abc

    I have many Christians, Buddhists, Catholics, Free-Thinkers as my close friends, even best friends, and they are very understanding and love me despite our differences in religion (I’m a Muslim). It saddens me that not many have the kind of friendships that I have, where we put our differences in our beliefs aside and embrace our similarities. I pray that Allah will show these ‘Muslims’ to the right path. I pray for those who dislike Muslim or Islam to befriend a Muslim and realise how generalising you guys are. I pray for my Muslim brothers and sisters to not hate on those who hate us but to simply ignore.

    Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      I do not have hate towards individuals regardless of what many say here, and I find it highly offensive and insulting to be called a racist.

      First of all muslims are not a race and islam is not a race, and secondly I have many friends from different cultures and religions, it is only islam that I have problems with, or to put it correctly it is only islam that has problems with everone else.

      It is islam that creates the hate, it is islam that promotes the hate, the hate that you claim to perceive is merely the natural response from those that islam offends and attacks.

      Yes offends, do I not have the right to be offended?

      Are muslims so arrogant that they believe only they have the right to be offended?

      When you start to clean up your own house and stop disrespecting everyone else in the world then maybe you may get some respect, remember respect must be earned and right now islam has not even started earning it.

      Reply
      • Ibn Islam

        It’s your problem that you have with Islam, matter of fact we believe that you have a problem with God. Islam is not here to appease anyone’s desires and wishes. You fail to realise that Muslims are not evil people nor is Islam. You are only seeing a reaction to decades of oppression and killing of your governments. It’s you who need to apologise for your governments crimes and step in their way to stop them. The situation looks dire and things can only get worse if the non-Muslim public doesn’t realise that.

  37. Ibn Islam

    Not surprised to see so many hypocritical statements on here. You all are quick to condem the killing of non-Muslims yet so calm and quite when Muslims and their babies are killed EVERY DAY for years. And you call our religion evil? How pathetic! As long the non-Muslim governance sends their troops into sovereign Muslim land and indiscriminately bombs, you can’t expect to live in peace. Do you? This is why they are attacking you, not because you eat your filthy swine, drink alcohol, pay prostitutes, allow homosexuality, pornography, and the list goes on. Muslims don’t care about your lifestyle, we have our own. You are being lied to by those who you trust. I am a Muslim and I don’t feel sorry for your loss, because we have lost millions and continue to lose lives.

    Reply
    • Angry Citizen

      And that is the very reason why everyone of you should be dumped back into the hell holes that your ancestors came from. If you cannot live like civilised humans in OUR COUNTRIES then get the hell out.

      You talk of hypocracy look at yourselves.

      Our prisons are full with muslims

      Drug dealers
      Rapists
      Paedophiles
      Extremists
      Fraudsters etc.

      You state, . . .not because you eat your filthy swine, drink alcohol, pay prostitutes, allow homosexuality, pornography, and the list goes on. Muslims don’t care about your lifestyle, we have our own.

      I know plenty of hypocritical muslims who demand special treatment, drinking alcohol, getting drunk, taking and dealing in drugs.

      You speak of prostitution, what about the muslims who raped innocent children, and prostituted them?

      What about your culture of Bacha Bazi, raping young boys is not homosexual?

      What is worse consenting adults in a relationship or your disgusting culture of paedophilia?

      And yes the vile behaviour of muslims goes on and on.

      Reply
      • Ibn Islam

        😂 you’re talking about a fraction of people living in the west or some Muslim countries and this reference again is for people who do sins behind closed doors. Our societies at large do not allow such things in public. You should be familiar with newspaper articles telling you about prohibited public kissing, drinking, drugs etc in Indonesia, Saudi Arabia tge Gulf countries and so on.

      • Jay

        Agreed. For every Angry Citizen there will be an Ibn Islam. I note that I didn’t get a single reply from Muslims to my balanced carefully considered request for understanding. In the absence of an answer from Muslims and in the absence of Muslims taking action to decry the violence, I’m afraid I see the Muslim ideology as broken, in fairness as as atheist I see all the others as broken too. Angry Citizen I hate your perspective, but understand it more. Ibn Islam, nothing will change until you change. It is unlikely that even one of those people murdered in Paris held ANY ill towards your prophet. Yet people like you murdered them. While both of you hold your position, this will not end. Peace out.

      • Angry Citizen

        Jay,

        I respect you for being able respect ALL PEOPLE.

        BUT I CANNOT AND I WILL NOT RESPECT islam, BECAUSE islam DESERVES NO RESPECT.

        Would we even be having this debate if we were talking about HITLER? By comparison to islam Hitler was an angel. All I can ask of you is TO STUDY.

        ▪ The quran
        ▪ Sahih Bukhari
        ▪ Sahih muslim
        ▪ The Life of muhammad by I. Ishaq (Author), A. Guillaume (Translator)
        ▪ Reliance of the Traveller (Sharia Law)
        ▪ A good history book (you choose, however, early books will not suffer Political Correctness)

        Once you KNOW islam THEN PASS JUDGEMENT.

  38. Angry Citizen

    Everyone, here is your extremist or should that be honest muslim.

    Ibn Islam

    November 15, 2015

    Okay Mr atheist I am a Muslim who strives to follow the teachings of Qur’an and the sunnah. I will keep this short because it is a very simple answer to your question.
    Muslims in the west live a life of comfort and peace for the most part. However; Muslims in the “Muslim” lands are oppressed, under occupation, humiliated for decades. They are facing injustice upon injustice by governments who are supported and protected by your governments. Now, the pot is boiling. Millions are dead, displaced, raped, etc. Islam doesn’t mean peace it means submission to Allah the God, Creator of heavens and earth. Islam is not a pacifist religion as some people here want to claim. (they do that to appease you so tgey can live comfortably) There is a time for peace and war in Islam just like with any secular country. Right now what we are seeing are actions resulting from decades of experiences with brutality. Some people act out of overbearing anger, and others have declared war on all those who have aided the oppressors or are directly involved in it. They are using verses for a of time war. That’s my analysis of the situation. Hope this helps.

    Reply
      • Brien

        Yeah, you are! All that he said were the facts which you will not address nor deal with. You are the problem.
        Also, here is what I tell the ‘infidels’ and kaffirs in the ‘west’:
        Terminology must change!
        Up to now we have objected logically to being erroneously referenced to as ‘racists. (Islam is not a race, but a mythology/philosophy which crosses all races)
        Now, we need to start correctly referring to the deniers and apologists (idiot westerners) for what they truly are under the rules of war – they are collaborators.

  39. Caleb

    Dear Ladies and Gentlemen:

    Muslims have offered to defray some of the United States’ anti-ISIS military costs, condemned ISIS and have conducted limited airstrikes against ISIS.

    But these things are minor, meaningless and inconsequential. They are, essentially, nothing.

    Muslims have not undertaken full scale military attacks. These would include hundreds of thousands of Muslim footsoldiers, machinery, missiles, cannon, air forces numbering in the thousands of Muslim pilots and bombers, and countless other things and Muslim military men.

    Muslim countries have unlimited financial resources. They are fully capable of doing all these things.

    Yet they have done nothing.

    Absolutely nothing of any real consequence.

    There is no excuse for that.

    But there is a simple explanation: they don’t want to.

    They have no desire to fight against ISIS.

    Actions speak louder than words.

    These weak statements, followed by absolutely nothing in the form of real military action, are truly ridiculous. Especially in light of the fact that any one single Muslim Emir or King has enough money and brilliant inside military intelligence from real Muslim agents to, on a moment’s notice, field an army more-than-sufficient to eradicate ISIS from the face of the earth.

    Sincerely yours,
    Caleb Boone

    Reply
  40. observer

    this goes out to angry citizen, and anyone , who thinks like him, you are most probably white, i am disgusted at what happened in paris, because it was an attack on human beings, it does not matter what religion a person is any death this way is one death too many, but i bet you don’t come on this site when black people get gunned down in america , or killed in custody in britain, or murdered in any african country, it seems to me many white people choose to hate anyone who is non white and does not subordinate to their way of thinking, something i might add, which has really been going on for centuries. Do you people really like yourselves, who makes the guns and the bombs, who sells the arms, wake up people and go back to the beginning of the human race

    Reply
    • Brien

      Just stop the bloody denials of the actual issue and foul attempts to deflect the responsibility to ‘us’. Quit your pathetic apologist crap for what is a violent attack by a warped belief system.
      You are part of the problem!

      Reply
    • Brien

      The Muslim conquests brought about the collapse of the Derafsh Kaviani.png Sasanian Empire
      Derafsh Kaviani Lakhmids Labarum.svg Byzantine Empire Labarum Ghassanids
      Bulgarian Empire Kingdom of Makuria Dabuyid dynasty Khazar Khaganate
      Turgesh Khaganate Göktürk Khaganate Sogdian rebels Kurdish tribes
      Berbers Visigoths Arab Christians Kingdom of the Franks
      Kingdom of the Lombards Duchy of Aquitaine Tang Dynasty
      Pratihara Empire Chalukya Dynasty Sindh kingdom etc etc…
      Muhammad’s campaigns
      Byzantine–Arab Wars: 634–750
      Under the Umayyads 718–750
      Conquest of Persia and Mesopotamia: 633–651
      Conquest of Transoxiana: 662–751
      Conquest of Sindh: 664–712
      Conquest of Hispania (711–718) and Septimania (719–720)
      Attempts to Conquer the Caucasus: 711–750
      Spain
      Conquest of Nubia
      Incursions into southern and central Italy: 831–902
      Conquest of Anatolia: 1060–1360

      Reply
  41. JeffB

    Well. 0.5% might be terrorist but 20 % – 50 million – are salafists (or wahabiists) those who support what most call radical Islam.

    Reply
    • Aly Balagamwala

      Funny, most would consider me Salafi or Wahabi (though I don’t go by either of these labels) but surprisingly I do not support violence that you claim Salafists support. Why is that? Could be your 50 million figure is incorrect?

      *Comment above is posted in a personal capacity and may not reflect the official views of MuslimMatters or its staff*

      Reply
  42. Peter

    Where do you get the 30% from. 1.6 billion Muslins so you claim 480 million supporters of terrorism? Your own numbers betray your bias and lack of facts. You’re making it up as you go along to support your bigoted argument!

    Reply
  43. South African

    Don’t just say it, proof it. You should be the people who patrol the streets, inform the police about possible attacks and even if it has to take the bullets. One Muslim who dies to save a live of a non-Muslim will chance the whole world like Nelson Mandela has chanced ours

    Reply
  44. Fred

    The Armenians were expelled from Turkey because they could not be trusted by the rulers of the Ottoman Empire. I am sure 99% of these had no active participation in the fight against the empire. They were Christians and that was enough to require their removal.

    Reply
  45. Fred

    Why have you removed my comment about the expulsion of the Armenians? Do you deny it occurred or is this site not free?

    Reply
    • Aly Balagamwala

      Dear Fred

      Certain comments get moderated automatically by the system. Unfortunately we do not have the staff to monitor comments on a real-time basis. Thus, sometimes there is a lag in this moderation system until one of us can go in and approve. The said comment should be showing now.

      MM Comments Team

      Reply
  46. Ibn Islam

    The Muslims are like one body; and whoever’s body already suffers from pain, he won’t feel the pain of others.
    Sh. Abdul-Aziz al Tarifi

    Reply
  47. h916

    Hi Jay, i (a muslim), tried responding to your respectful and well thought out request, but for some reason my comments were moderated, if you wish to get a cogent Muslim response to your query I’d be happy to respond to directly to you at h916@hotmail.com. hope this doesn’t get moderated too.

    Reply
  48. Fred

    Why have you removed my question?
    Is Ibn Islam a supporter of ISIL?
    Everything written by him implies he is a supporter. But I would welcome a response.

    Reply
  49. Fred

    I assume his lack of response means his answer in the affirmative has been edited out.

    Reply
  50. Aly Balagamwala

    There are many questions raised in many comments and here are some of my personal views

    Is Islam a religion of Peace?
    Islam is a way of life ordained by the Creator. Thus, Islam does not shy away from the nature of man or the natural order of things. In any society there will come times of peace and for war. Islam, defines the rules for peace and war. To say that the Prophet (SAW) never went to war would be denial of the truth and to say he was a warmonger would also be denial of the truth.

    Is ISIS an Islamic organization that is based on the laws of Islam?
    Just go through some articles on this site alone to get the answer.

    Should the attacks in Paris be praised or condemned?
    Again see this article itself to see reactions of Muslim leaders and scholars.

    Why is there so much violence and strife in Muslim lands?
    I think to say that this has a simple open and shut answer would be absurd. This requires understanding of many geo-political factors, understanding of human psyche, and much more. As a citizen of Pakistan, I can personally give testament to the fact that these extremist factions have killed and harmed many of my fellow citizens. What have we done against them? Some on this page would claim nothing, but the fact is that our army is fighting its own citizens, the armies of those who follow this ideology of hate. And we are in a vicious cycle where the war kills many innocents and their children and siblings take up arms against the army thinking they are the oppressors. In the midst of this those who thrive on hate and death benefit. Those who crave instability such as the arms makers and dealers, the criminals who use ideologies to mask their quest for wealth and power and much more. We have seen this in many lands and we will continue to see it in many more.

    I could write more and many of you will refute and argue to what I write. Some will come in to defend me, some will come in to abuse me. Some like Ibn Islam and Angry Citizen will continue to spout hate from either side of the extreme. This will go on and no one will stop and read what the other really means, no one will try to really step into the shoes of the other. Most will never try and read up on Islam with an open mind and many would never stop and think of the fallacies of our fellow adherents to Islam.

    All I can say is that we will continue to act like humans do, some with peace and love, others with hate and fear.

    *Comment above is posted in a personal capacity and may not reflect the official views of MuslimMatters or its staff*

    Reply
  51. Aly Balagamwala

    NOTE FROM COMMENTS TEAM

    There are rules to posting on this site muslimmatters.org/comments-policy/ so please do read up on it. From time to time some comments may not pass through our filters and end up for moderation. We do not monitor comments in real-time so please be patient for it to be manually moderated by us.

    Best Regards
    Aly Balagamwala
    Comments Team Lead

    Reply
  52. Darius

    NOTE TO THE COMMENTS TEAM

    There is nothing in my comments that should not have been allowed.
    You don’t really condemn the murders acts done in the name of Islam.
    If you did, there should not have been any objection to my comments. I hope
    that you did not filter my comments out. That would be very telling about
    the people I am dealing with. These are suppose to be the leaders of the
    spiritual community of Islam and honesty is part of any true religion even
    when it goes against oneself. Right is right and wrong is wrong. There is no partiality with God.

    Reply
    • Aly Balagamwala

      You don’t really condemn the murders acts done in the name of Islam.

      You are right, I don’t condemn it in the comment above. Multiple articles on the site do it already. I have already condemned it elsewhere. But if you need some closure:

      I CONDEMN THE TERRORIST ATTACKS BY ISIS IN PARIS DONE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.

      Best Regards
      Aly

      *Comment above is posted in a personal capacity and may not reflect the official views of MuslimMatters or its staff*

      Reply
  53. Darius

    Is ISIS an Islamic organization that is based on the laws of Islam?
    Just go through some articles on this site alone to get the answer.

    The question is? He that knows to do good and doesn’t do it, to him it is sin.
    If you believe that it does not reflect Islam what are the religious leaders of Islam doing to stop
    it in their homes, their neighborhoods, their temples, their countries? Words are cheap. What
    are you DOING about it? If you know someone is associated with a group that can harm other
    people, even other Muslims, it is a duty of love, to save lives. If you don’t then you are guilty
    of that person’s blood. So, what are the religious leaders DOING about it? Muslims credibility
    has been completely destroyed. To come on this website and with cheap words say you condemn
    the murders in Paris, says nothing about you. What are YOU DOING to eradicate this from your religion,
    from your temples, from your homes, from your children, from your neighborhoods?

    Reply
  54. Darius

    “And when it is said to them: “Create not disorder on the earth,”
    they say: “We are only promoters of peace.” Beware! It is surely
    they who create disorder, but they do not perceive it.” Al-Baqarah 1:12-13

    Reply
  55. DARIUS

    Don’t take my word for it. Read this article on CNN News today by a Muslim Imman

    ISIS perversion of Islam is a mortal danger to Muslims By Haroon Moghul
    Updated 6:32 AM ET, Mon November 16, 2015

    “The reason there are schools of Islamic law, no centralized authority in Islam, and so much debate and discussion between Muslims is because the premise where traditional Muslim scholars regularly begin is one that jihadists, and many Islamists, cannot abide:

    The Quran contradicts itself. The Prophet Mohammed said conflicting things.

    Merely citing what the Quran says, or what Mohammed taught, say doesn’t mean much, since the Quran and Mohammed often appear to offer conflicting advice.

    How you make sense of a vast corpus of texts — intended for different situations and different contexts, anchored to different points in Mohammed’s life, reflecting the circumstances of a small, 7th-century Arabian city — requires years of deep learning, debate and a willingness to admit that we might be wrong.None of which ISIS is interested in.”

    –This is what I mean. God does not contradict himself. God is not a man. His spirit does not inspire anyone
    to contradict what he has said prior. Especially since Mohammed cites the God of Abraham who gave the Torah to Moses and his ten commandments to all mankind as inspired. God does not contradict himself. That would place his people in utter confusion and in a position where obedience is impossible. It is so absolutely clear that the Quran is not inspired by God that a person has to be willfully blind to continue to believe that there is anything holy about it. God is not the author of confusion! If he has something to tell his people through a prophet, he is direct, clear and consistent with his character and law. He does not
    contradict himself or his commandments. For Muslim to know that about the Quran and still believe it and blow
    themselves up for it, its utter Satanic delusion.

    Reply
    • Aly Balagamwala

      I am not commenting on Haroon Moghul’s above statement as being right or wrong…..

      however, if you have read his article in entirety it would side with a lot of what you said above I think.

      Reply
  56. Maryam

    My prayers and thoughts are with the deceased in Paris and may Allah be with them inshallah. But I really feel bad about a few things here….. In the UK Paris is constantly on the news? . what about the other astrocities that has happened in other parts of the world! I don’t remember seeing anything about Lebenon or Kenya many more……….Anyway the Media just want us to know what they want us to know! and to be honest i don’t actually even watch the news like before!

    Reply
  57. David

    This is not a war against religion….it is a war against an ideology that is more politically driven than religiously.
    These terrorists simply use the guise of religion to attract recruits and convince them to do their bidding.
    Religion has kept people living in subservient fear for centuries and leaders have used to it to control the weak minded and the poor and keep them in check across the board no matter what the religion may be called or what beliefs and laws they claim to be living under. ISIS and Al Qaeda are no more Islamic than the KKK or right wing fanatical conservatives are Christian. You can not support the killing of innocent people or the turning away of poor and helpless people in need and make any claim of Christian beliefs.
    With that being said, all practicing Muslims all around the world are certainly not terrorist and certainly do no support the killing of innocent people….but if you can’t understand that the world really and truly needs to see you standing up as one as loudly and publicly denouncing the actions of ISIS and taking it to the streets to make sure the whole world can see and hear you doing so…….then that is very very arrogant of you. You need to be demanding that your leaders and your figureheads do more than say “I’m sorry this happened.” If you can’t understand why you need to do that…then you are really doing your religion and huge disservice and are putting innocent men, women, and children in harms way from the backlash that is going to be coming your way. Do not sit by and let clueless idiots and bigots single out and harm innocent people simply because they are Muslim just because you are too proud to defend yourself and your beliefs. If you choose to step down and remain silent…..then you will be partially to blame when bad things begin to happen.

    Reply
    • George

      I don’t think Muslims in the west will be organized and uniting anytime soon until really bad things start to happen to them. Just like Jews in US and 1000 yrs in Europe… Only reason Jews were so tight and are highly organized and united in US is 1000yrs of discrimination and pogroms in Europe and recently the holocaust that totally changed the Western Christian view of Jews and led our 200% supporting Israel…the only Jewish homeland in the world.

      Reply
  58. Fred

    Dear Maryam,
    It is only natural that we focus on Paris. It is much closer; it shares the same culture. We know that if this can happen in Paris it can happen in London. A Parisian life is NOT worth more than a Kenyan life. It is simple proximity that means we obsess about it.

    Reply
  59. Fulan

    Certainly everyone is against terrorism. However it is quite sad that many of our leaders are rarely seen coming out and condemning the terrorism their own leaders in their countries are committing against Muslims. You came out as a Muslim condemning terrorism as a Muslim opposed to this, why don’t you come out and speak against the attacks the west and its allies have against Muslims. Why don’t we see these same leaders speak out against the terrorism committed by their countries against thousands of Muslims?

    Syria has been attacked also by foreigners including France. Be fair when you are condemning terrorism and mention the fact that your governments are taking part in terrorizing innocent Muslims all over the world.

    Reply
  60. George

    I think muslim majority 99.99% in general and specifically in the west, especially US are doing terrific. They are some of the most awesome people you will meet, live and work with.

    If that were not the case, based on so called ‘islamic’ barbaric and vile acts of inhumanity perpetrated by ISIS, Al Qaeda and similar terrorist groups that some here are trying very hard to attribute to Islam and muslims, the sheer amount of dead and injured people around us would be 1000 times more then what American military and the economic embargo killed in Iraq alone.

    Pakistan 2nd largest muslim country today alone, has over 660,000 military under uniform ready to go, with 200+ nuclear bombs on missiles able to reach 1,700 miles… let’s cut out this nonsense going on from idiots here pleeeeeeeeeeeez :-) :-) :-)

    Every observant muslim I have known for last 50+ years I have been around has been just totally awesome experience. So, how about we move out of this bric brac yakity yak displaying how big of an idiot we are, and discuss some concrete steps that people and govts can take to stop this madness of ISIS, Al-Aqaeda and other hate groups? Any takers?

    Reply
    • Malik Matiyahu

      I already did just that. To re-iterate we need at minimum three things to happen, and need collectively to pressure our governments to act on them;

      1. Sadly, a coherent military response against IS is required in the short term, This should be unified and governments need to drop their own agendas e.g. for/against Assad.

      2. Urgently need to counter the Wahabist doctrines that underlie the IS ideology, openly support muslim pluralism and sign up to the idea that if you say you are a Muslim, you are – even if one person’s version differs radically from the next. It would be really nice to a television channels to do some programs about Sufism, Shi’ism and so on, for example. this is practical with funding put in place. Ultimately the aim, for Muslims, should be to wrest control of the Holy Cities from house of Saud control, transferring the control of them and the enormous resources they harness to a body that represents Muslims of all shades of opinion, with the money used to help the poor all over the world and disseminate the pluralist vision that was at the heart of the message of the Prophet, peace be upon him

      3. Prevent further militarist adventurism e.g. Iraq, Libya which has served to create the conditions for IS to thrive.

      Reply
      • George

        The only common ground we have with that part of the world is empty space as far as possible…until such time when they kill enough of each other to realize like we did in the west, it does not work.

      • Malik Matiyahu

        This a sadly nihilist view frankly. We also have in common thing like children, similiar needs and wants, a desire for a better life, hope and fear, love etc. In other words – out common humanity. Lose sight of that and you are veering towards the IS worldview yourself.

      • George

        We in the west evolved and continue to do so from within from mistakes our forefathers made. If the Muslim world in Middle East does not evolve from within, then sadly they will continue to be a danger to rest of the world…

  61. Fred

    Dear Fulan,
    The West’s attacks are not directed against Muslims – unless you agree that ISIL are valid representatives of Islam. The West wants to destroy this evil group to protect its citizens. To do nothing just invites more attacks like Paris.

    Reply
    • Fulan

      I disagree with them but I still consider them to be Muslims. We have seen of bombs dropping on women and children who have nothing to do with IS. They will continue to justify their attacks by showing the people that the west is attacking them, and the west will continue to justify their attacks saying they are harming their security. This war is not going to come to an end unless Allah wills. I think the western policies do not help at all.

      Reply
  62. Fred

    What should the West do?
    ISIL murder Yasidies, Shia, Christians, Hindus, atheists etc etc
    They rape girls and enslave them.

    Who will stop them if the West doesn’t help? It seems the surrounding countries cannot do the job. Turkey could do it but they seem reluctant.

    Reply
    • Malik Matiyahu

      I think you are right Fred. Despite the risk that we could simply inflame the situation, IS need to be stamped out and as quickly as possible. The have been able to spin the narrative to their naive recruits that they are winning. Make if obvious they are losing badly and they will lose glamour and appeal. Just pray to God ( or whatever/whoever you believe in/don’t believe in) that we don’t kill too many more innocents along the way.

      We are in big trouble here and we will have to rely on our leaders to show more wisdom than most of hem have over the last 20 years or so.

      Reply
    • Fulan

      The west is trying to be a leader in policy but they have failed and this is why they keep their own people in limbo when they know the cause of this terrorism. It is their failed policies and meddling in the Muslim world affairs.
      The Bush policy which was to bomb and kill has only created more of what they thought they could get rid of. The West has failed in its policies. The terrorists have clearly mentioned in their videos what will help stop this terror, however the West does not want to look weak by accepting the terms of these people and so the cycle of terror continues from both sides. The people aught to know why these terrorists are attacking them. Dropping bombs in the middle east is a failed policy and we can look at the bush administration as a proof. The leaders seem like they just want to get points for defending their people so their parties will win yet in reality they are causing more harm to them.

      Reply
  63. Fred

    Yes ….George you are right!
    But do just sit down and wait, or do we do something to defend ourselves?

    Reply
    • George

      Dude, honestly i definitely do not have wisdom displayed here. So I really cannot say.

      However, just to keep myself engaged in this frenzy of outpouring of sympathy,
      hate, fear, defending islam, attacking islam, defending muslims, attacking muslims….it just seems to me after all these years following events from last 50 yrs….all modern developed, developing societies will be attacked whose governments have committed themselves to interfere in middle eastern affairs of muslim countries either directly or support authoritarian middle eastern rulers using cruel and harsh measures to suppress dissent.

      These attacks are coming and will keep coming from highly motivated individuals that are brilliantly adept at innovating new ways to terrorize us, and will continue to do so until IMHO their middle eastern societies are free like ours are, which imho I do not see happening in my brief lifetime :-)

      Reply
      • Malik Matiyahu

        A lot of what you say is true. But remember that Tunisia actually is a democracy and they still had a terror attckc recently, by home-grown jihadis. My view is there are 3 things that need to be done:

        (1) In short term, decapitate IS in their strongholds.
        (2) Put pressure on Saudi Arabia to stop disseminating Wahabi doctrine. If they want it for themselves, fine, but stop pushing it onto muslims around the world.
        (3) West stop its geopolitical manoeuvrings, invasions etc in the middle east and let them sort their problems out themselves. (Exception being the necessary attacks on IS).

  64. Carl

    I have come to this site to see what Muslims have to say, about terrorist within. I have found more of the same, from both sides of the equation. I have personally come to the conclusion that people sometimes just can not live together. There Ideals and believes are to incompatible. I guess that why we have so many countries, Religions, Races and philosophies . Multiculturalism is worthy Ideal, but sadly the world is not ready for it. Religious freedoms is a foundation of modern society. But unfortunately, that ideal is not part of the ancient world. We in the west can not force our ideals, and society on any people that are not willing to accept them. These ideals are not universal through out the world. Hate to say it Most of Modern day Islam do not share this belief. It comes a time when civilization need to develop on their own enlightenment. Until that time, some time in the future, we in the west need to stay out of there part of the world. As well as Islam needs to stay out of our part of the world. Both ideologies can not share the same place with each other. I believe that the two worlds of Islam, need to have their own reformation, and may even be a civil war within Islam. It is up to Muslims to fight for Muslims Morality, and finally settle the matter between themselves. This proxy fight between Muslims is the root of the problem, in my humble opinion. We need to pull back as a western society from Muslim lands and limit Immigration to very few. Western reliance on Middle eastern energy reserves is a detriment to any Nation of the world. It provides the means for Islam to conflict within, and throughout the world. I have hope for the future, but by accepting large moderate Muslims into western society. Will not Help change the extremist Radical Muslims. They Need To Work it out, and the Moderates need to get there act together quickly. Its up to them to lead the true caliphate they so desire. That is there true Jihad, in my humble opinion Peace be with you all

    Reply
    • Malik Matiyahu

      Can understand your sentiment but your solutions unworkable. 20 percent of French are muslims, 6 % of Uk, and growing quite well without even adding the impact of immigration. What are you going to do about them – send them all home? Force the to leave the region as the Spanish Inquisition did.? What about me, I’m a muslim but all four of my grandparents were born in the UK. Where would I go?

      It is both simpler and more complex than you suggest. Simpler because the vast majority of missiles loathe IS. More complex because we do need to explore the common ground between christians, muslims, buddhists, atheists, socialists, conservatives, liberals and so on. Thats is not always so easy. But it is the only viable solution.

      Reply
      • George

        MM – I think most people here are interested in venting out how they feel about bad news hitting them 24×7 from tv, smartphone and radio and for it to sell ads they have to be creative and provoking constantly competing for attention with :-) So, relax folks take a deep breath every time you get hit by this stuff…however though, if there are some here truly genuinely interested in doing something positive, then I suggest reach out daily and say hello or salam alekum to your non-muslim neighbors, or your muslim neighbors around you, and if possible get to know them one on one. That is both realistically doable then spinning all sorts of ideas and suggestions that don’t mean a hill of beans where it really counts. Just do it, and I can guarantee your world view will change. Salam Alekum :-)

      • Malik Matiyahu

        Totally agree. But don’t most Muslims do that? Certainly the ones I know do so. Its just sad to see some of the ignorance and hatred displayed on this site though they are of course probably a minority, just like IS are.

      • Carl

        Legally Immigrated Muslims and others, and Citizens of the Muslim faith remain where they are. Reduce any further increase in Muslim population through immigration reform. It may not be P/C so to speak. I do believe if the shoe was on the other foot, you as Muslims would do the same in heart beat. Saudi Arabia, as a Nation of Islam will not even allow, there fellow brothers and sisters in their own county. Ask yourself Why? I do not hate Muslims, Or Islam, but many of Islam hate me. I personally lost 33 Friends family and associate, in Two Bombings of the world Trade Bundling, each time great then the last bombing. Europe as a whole is mess, their immigration policies, and the noble causes of Multiculturalism has become a failure. Large segments of Muslim population have no elegance to their adopted country, and the indigenous society within. Many feel, and so know, that democracy does have a weakness, of being taken from within. As many of your fellow Muslims extremist have stated, many times. My Question to you, If the shoe was on the other foot, and it was You as the indigenous people being overrun. What would You do? A huge Christian, or Hindu population, not assimilating, but taking over, your country or countries. With a majority looking for a world wide Caliphate, wiping out your society and your religion. How would you react? What would a Muslim Nation Do? I think we already know the answer to that. Don’t we? I personally never met an individual Muslim I didn’t like.But I have met many that do not Like Me, for I am a Christian and American. Limiting Immigration is the only way, it maybe too late for some Countries in Europe. Many in the Muslim religion want a world wide caliphate. Any country that does not protect demographics in a democracy is doomed to this Muslim caliphate.

      • George

        I could not agree more with Carl!

        The radicalization and anti-west anti-infidel brainwashing in muslim countries requires common sense policies in the west today.

        A lot of people in middle eastern muslim countries are being indoctrinated at home and in their masjids to hate the west and hate non-muslims. That’s a fact. And that’s a problem muslim countries need to address. We have our own problems here in the west need addressing which we are struggling with and not all of them are about muslims in the west…tho with Al-Qaeda and ISIL terrorist attacks on civilians by western muslim radicalization at home is and will be addressed by us in the west – we have overcome bigger problems in the past, and I am confident as an American at least in the US we will overcome.

        And until muslim majority countries in middle east fix their issues of western and Christian hate indoctrination at BOTH home and in masjids, we should do everything in power as individuals to STOP immigration to the west from these countries. Just get real guys, if the tables were turned, ask yourself what would a muslim country do?

      • Malik Matiyahu

        I appreciate your honest opinion and that its being put in a non hateful way. I would only question some of your assumptions, in particular the non-integration claim. What does it mean exactly, to integrate? Most of the muslims I know here in the UK have jobs ( or would like one if they don’t), send their children to the same schools as everyone else ( I don’t personally agree with segregated religious schools, and its only a minority that use these), use the same supermarkets, travel on the same train and buses, live in the same mixed neighbourhoods and so on.
        Of course if integration means giving up all distinctive aspects of one’s identity and conforming wholesale to the prevailing secularist ideology, then no they are not integrating to any great extent. But then nor are Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, Orthodox Christians, New Agers, etc.

        The fact that the hideous Saudi regime is completely non pluralist and is not welcoming any of the Syrians does not mean we in the West should emulate them. Britain has successfully absorbed waves of immigrants over the last 2000 years – Romans, Vikings, Saxons, Normans, Irish, Portuguese, Italian, Greek, and more recently Indian, Pakistani, African, Turkish, East European, South American etc. The resulting British identity is a dynamic ongoing phenomenon that has not collapsed or become defunct – in fact it has been strengthened. I see no reason why in time the relatively new fact that some of the new arrivals are Muslim changes that one jot.

        Sooner or later this poisonous Jihadi ideology will fade away – all the sooner if the West would refrain from using them when it suits to further their geopolitical ambitions. (The whole phenomenon has its origins in the USA’s arming and funding the Mujahaddin of Afghanistan to fight the Russians back in the 1980s – let us not lose sight of that – and more recently the West was a de facto ally and provider of air support to Islamist Jihadi groups in the overthrow of Gaddafi).

        When it does fade from sight, I can guarantee you 2 things: there will still be a Britain and a British identity; and there will still be the religion of Islam followed by millions of people.

  65. Fred

    Dear George, I think fracking and renewable energy technologies are game changers. Before the Middle East was a critical strategic interest to the West. So the West propped up corrupt oil-rich countries like Saudia Arabia – to ensure oil supply. Now we can quite easily stay away because we don’t need its oil. Once we destroy ISIS and so made ourselves safer (never completely safe) I think we will stay away…What point is there in stirring up a hornets nest? I could be wrong but I think this may be the thinking in Western and Russian governments.

    Reply
    • Malik Matiyahu

      Fracking WAS a game changer. That’s why the Saudis crashed the price of oil to a level where the Frackers are going bust. They can keep the oil price low for years, thereby ensuring their continued monopoly.

      Reply
      • George

        Mr. MM

        Ever heard of the company, Tesla?

        Yes, that same firm with electric car and launching space rockets is out to change the energy equation .. just like Mr. Tesla earlier revolutionized electricity using A/C Alternative Current that Thomas J. usurped as his own :-)

        Its innovations like these and others in Fracking as well, that have a chance of freeing us in developed and developing world of middle eastern oil curse…and only then perhaps rest of world will have a really good reason not give a damn care how many middle easterners want to kill each other for whatever reason…so long as it does not involve rest of world citizens.

    • Carl

      A nation that depends on another Nations for its energy needs. Is a nation that has no security; energy independence is what needed. Europe as a whole, has fallen into this trap many times. They are now paying for it, what is needed work things out with the environmentalist. People will always affect their environment in some way. How much we do, is up to that Nation. Climate change is inevitable, it has been since the beginning. Jungles become deserts. This we know, Suns effect of the solar system. Mankind can have their energy needs, and work on cleaning up the environment as well. Both are possible, but nations need to work together. Once all nations are energy independent, there would be no need to pretend that certain nations are exempt for Morality. Aka Saudi Arabia etc. Once the straggle hold is lifted, and Islam is allowed to reform from within. Only then will Islam slowly work things out. Sometimes people can not live together, and need time to evolve in our understanding of each other. Religious text, is mixed with the word of God, and primitive man attempt to understand the truth. God’s Truth remains true today as it will be true tomorrow. Mankind’s Truth is ever changing. This is what all Religious needs to understand, especially Muslims extremist. That Truth can never be forced, it needs to be learned and accept.

      Reply
  66. Fred

    Right again George. The Middle East may be the cheapest source but it no longer has such a stranglehold. There are now too many new sources. Technology will make fracking cheaper. Solar panels are becoming more efficient – as are wind turbines. No longer will there be much demand for oil for energy – just as a raw material for plastics etc. I don’t think the price will ever rise above $60 in my life time. But then I am old.

    Reply
  67. Malik Matiyahu

    Furthermore, as well as that we do also need to have a sense of finding common ground of shared values in the face of this extremism, surely? I don’t think that is “spinning all sorts of ideas and suggestions that don’t mean a hill of beans where it really counts.” Of course there are already initiatives like this ongoing, i am simply arguing for more of the same. Also implicit in this is that Muslims do have to think through some of their assumptions. For instance, its probably quite difficult in practice to really give full human respect to someone who you believe is condemned to the hell fire unless they convert?

    Reply
    • Carl

      Your are correct, nothing will get done until reason, logic and respect for ideology, religious or otherwise are respected. Freedom of speech of conflicting view points are need in a dialogue. But here is the catch, Freedom of speech should tempered with reason and honesty, and respect. These understandings are at odds with the ancient world, and Islamic belief systems. Islam like other religious of the past and present, have problem with questioning of religious text of their own religion. What was once considered human, in taking slaves from the battle field. Is now consider barbaric in today western society standards, and in others as well. In ancient past total warfare with a total destruction of the enemy was the norm. Many need to under that ancient scripture has ancient mans morality within it. The literal interpretation of scriptures, is at times a pretext, for immorality today. As well as the viewing of Western cultures morality today, and the conflict it creates, within a culture clash. I am Not proud of my own western standards of morality either. Christ once said, Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

      Reply
      • Malik Matiyahu

        But an intense interrogation of the text was precisely what ensued for the most of the 1400 years since the Quran was revealed. There were intense debates, hundreds and thousand of books written, all advancing differing ways to interpret what is a text full of possible meanings. Just as an example, Rumi’s massive Mathnawi is noting more than an extended poetic commentary on the Quran. This intellectual tendency seems to die out in the later middle ages as the traditions solidified; but it is now back with a vengeance with a plethora of textual and hermeneutical approaches by both muslim and non muslim scholars and academics. This is what most non muslims don’t seem to know about at all – for which they can hardly be blamed as much of the mainstream media simply regurgitate the old cliches about Islam.

        As I have said before, literalism is actually not the issue in some ways. There is no “literal” justification for suicide bombing or the killing of non combatants anywhere in the Quran. And the word jihad is more literally and accurately translated as “struggle” not “war”. The word often translated as “friends” but which really means “allies” makes all the difference to the meaning of a verse warning against making military alliances with Christians and Jews – when I first read the a translation I was appalled that the Quran should seemingly be banning Muslims from being friends with Christians or Jews. It is only with repeated study and questioning that I have realised it was a specific military situation that was being talked about. The Prophet was on friendly terms even with many polytheists and allowed a group of travelling Christians to pray in the mosque at Medina.

        Any text has to be interpreted, and the interpretation will have a lot to do with the mind set with which the text is approached. This is why Angry Citizen, above, sees nothing but cruelty in the Quran even though to more sympathetic readers it is full of Mercy.

        Clearly then we need to take care when we look at these texts. The danger is that both types such as Angry Citizen and IS supporters seize upon a possible interpretation then claim to the bitter end that is the only correct one.

  68. Malik Matiyahu

    Sorry – above was a follow on to my response to George above, ended up in the wrong place….

    Reply
  69. roshniquranacademy

    No one wants to see killings and no one wants to live in fear , people say Muslims are doing this and that , but tell me they are killing Muslims as well , then tell me do these terrorist have any religion ?

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.