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Open Thread Sunday 6/21/2009 | Pakistan T20 Champs
For those who know cricket, the sport, from cricket the insect, Pakistan won the T20 World Cup. Finally, some good new for a nation under so much duress. Just a meaningless distraction in the end, but can’t hurt.
Players doing sajdah after the victory below.
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Kashmiris celebrate in Indian-controlled Sringar:
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Amad
June 21, 2009 at 1:21 PM
What a match.. comfortable in the end…
Shahid Afridi man of the match!
On the announcement & post-interview, he thanked Allah first and that he couldn’t do anything without Allah.
Amad
June 21, 2009 at 1:35 PM
Younus Khan’s interview… Would have been nice to have some of the other Khan’s interview skills!
Great job on the field though!
Taimoor
June 21, 2009 at 4:27 PM
I think Younus should have announced a donation for the IDPs (Internally Displaced Persons) of the Swat region. The Nation would have responded likewise.
taha a
June 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM
One good thing about pakistani cricketers is that they always thank allah swt . As a whole they are a pretty religous team. I thought that afridi has matured a lot and is starting to live up to his potential.All facets of the game for once where on. it was a joy to see
Hassan
June 21, 2009 at 3:28 PM
Finally, they should have won 2 years ago as well, but alhamdulillah won now. Awsome tournament for them
AsimG is NOT a sister
June 21, 2009 at 3:54 PM
Are the hyderbadis supposed to support Pakistan in cricket? What about the hydro ABCD’s?
Hassan
June 21, 2009 at 4:35 PM
I do not know about ABCDs, but I know lot of FOB hyderabadis who could care less for Pakistan. Their homeland is India, and they are patriotic people.
fly
June 22, 2009 at 3:42 AM
yes just like american Muslims….
India guarenteed the Indian Muslims securities and rights that pakistan has failed to guarentee its muslim population.
being a minority has really pushed Indian Muslims to hold stong to their religion, not all but many
Taha A.
June 21, 2009 at 5:08 PM
Asim, i know a lot of your people that support pakistani cricket over indian. You should join us and support muslim teams not hindus..jkjkjk
muslimah
June 25, 2009 at 7:25 AM
taha, Indian team has muslims too. india is the second largest muslim country in the world after indonesia. so pls brush up your knowledge before posting.
mohamed
June 21, 2009 at 6:12 PM
Pakistan won the cricket and Egypt lost football :( :( :( eh eh eh !
emirzad
June 21, 2009 at 9:06 PM
since when muslimmatters are hosting/appreciating cricket things( time waste in so many places)? if you want to enjoy the game, go and play self.
Amad
June 22, 2009 at 12:45 AM
since March 2007.
Muhammad
June 23, 2009 at 3:35 PM
The comments on the March 2007 post ended with the tragic news of Woolmer’s (then Pakistani coach) death. Yunus Khan dedicated the T20 championship to Bob Woolmer.
Ali
June 21, 2009 at 11:04 PM
I really find some of the comments insulting as an Indian Muslim. Indian team is not composed of Hindus nor is it a requirement of being in the team. For the longest team Muslims have led the Indian team. So, please stop this “Hindu” team vs. “Muslim” team rhetoric which I have heard all my life from Pakistanis. Secondly, the Dawn posting of few Kashmiri’s celebrating Pakistani victory doesn’t mean anything. So stop romanticizing with Kashmir being with Pakistan. First get control of SWAT, Baloch, Peshawar etc – unite your own people first & stop the killings and then worry about Kashmir.
Please leave our religion out of the sport/politics. As Pakistan is not the best representative of the faith in any sense.
Amad
June 22, 2009 at 12:42 AM
I am sorry Ali, but it is not anyone’s fault that there are many supporters of Pakistan in India. I know many Indian friends who are. It is a fact that most Kashmiris do support the Pakistani team as do many (but not all) Hydrabadis, Bangaloris, etc. It has nothing to do with romanticizing about territory… not sure why you are so defensive. Do you think a cricket match or cricket supporters change any reality on the ground? No.
Also, it is natural for many Muslims to cheer other Muslims. I mean many Muslims from around USA and perhaps around the world were cheering Hakeem Olajuwan playing for a city, Houston! It is a natural affinity that we have as an Ummah. In fact, it would be a problem if one doesn’t feel it. I think many Pakistanis were cheering for the Muslims in the Indian team too or Hashim Amla in South Africa’s test-team. Just like your sense of Indian nationality brought about a sense of loyalty to your country, as evidenced in your comment, similarly there are other forms of loyalty, the primary for us being the Muslim one.
So, bring down your Indian guard, and let your Muslim spirit feel happy for Pakistanis… We all know that it’s just a sport, so let’s chill out! I know even my Indian Hindu friends are happy for Pakistan… it’s a good story!
P.S. I do agree that Pakistan or perhaps no other Muslim country is representative of the Islamic faith.
fly
June 22, 2009 at 3:37 AM
Muslim Indians supporting Pakistan is analogous to Muslim Americans supporting a country other than their own…
its similar…..
Indian Muslims have almost, if not more freedoms in india than Muslims in USA do….
they even have Indian Muslim law which is upheld in Indian Judicial courts when it comes to Indian Muslims….
yea….there are certain political parties in India that are islamophobic, and thats the same in the US…
amad, you sound very ignorant basing your conclusions off some of the Indians that you know….look at the Indian Muslim situation, and compare it to the american Muslim situation. it;s completely retarded for an Indian to support pakistan because in the end they know that no matter how much they love or support Pakistan, that country wont let them make hijra to it, even though that was the basis of its creation. india has guarenteed certain freedoms and securities for the muslims more than pakistan does now, and the only thing that is worth anythign islamic in pakistan are the ulemaa, and the madrasahs, the country’s political authorities and situation is in ruins.
I am Muslim Indian, my entire family is Muslim Indian, most of my friends and most of my family’s friends are Muslim Indian, i have yet to come across an Indian that has any affinity towards Pakistan (the country). As for the people of pakistan we have affinity towards the muslims upon Islam. Unfortunately a lot of the pakistanis are more dedicated to their country than their religion, unfortunately.
Amad
June 22, 2009 at 3:53 PM
actually “fly”, I didn’t make any conclusions or any generalizations. I know there are many Indian Muslims who support Pakistani cricketers. That doesn’t mean they support Pakistan, the country. Neither does that mean that ALL Indian Muslims support Pakistani cricketers. Nor does it mean that there aren’t Indian Muslims who support Pakistan the country. It’s a mixed bunch. After my experience in school interacting with Indians (not even Muslims), it has increased my respect tremendously for people from Pakistan’s neighbors. I am just describing some facts, not making any analysis.
I think you are the one reading too much in my comment. Pretty much all of your comments on this blog have been negative. Care to actually make a positive contribution? Where’s my swatter when I need it ;) ??
Well, you found one right here on this post below, “Ajooba”.
Hassan
June 22, 2009 at 5:06 PM
I knew many Kashmiris under Indian occupation who had nothing nice to say about India. I know few others (my best friend from Lakhnow) who 100% acts like Pakistani. But yes there are others who could care less. And I would like them to care as muslims, I know of no Pakistani who does not have soft corner for Indian muslims, and pray for them when there are atrocities on them, like Kashmir and Gujarat.
Abu Rumaisa
June 25, 2009 at 7:58 PM
it;s completely retarded for an Indian to support pakistan because in the end they know that no matter how much they love or support Pakistan, that country wont let them make hijra to it, even though that was the basis of its creation.
Actually, Pakistan lets any Muslim make hijrah to Pakistan. Just like Israel let’s any Jew immigrate to Israel. I know many Indians who migrated to India even recently.
fly
June 22, 2009 at 3:41 AM
extremely ignorant post….
basing the feelings of indian muslims off the claimed indian muslim friends you have,,,
Uncle Tom
June 22, 2009 at 7:35 AM
If it is just a sport, why do Pakistanis always look at it as “Muslims vs. Hindus”, rather than “Team A vs. Team B” ?
It is not a victory of Islam or Muslims, if Pakistan or Egypt or any other Muslim-dominant country wins a sport.
SabrTruth
June 22, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Well said, mashaaAllaah. This is how I’ve always felt even after living 10 years in India amongst hardcore fans of the national cricket team.
Unfortunately most Muslims in India are so brainwashed by the stuff they’re taught in school and in the media that they outright hate Pakistan and everything to do with it. Alhamdulillah though, a lot of them open their eyes when they travel abroad and actually meet Muslims from other lands. Thats when they realize the bond of Islam is the stronger than any other bond.
And no matter how vocally they may deny that religious affinity has anything to do with sport, most typical Pakistan-hating Indian Muslim cricket fans would still root for Muslim players in the Indian team. Unfortunately some of them even supported Azharuddin after he divorced his wife of many years and mother of his two kids in order to marry a hijab-less and haya-less film actress.
Ajooba
June 22, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I’m an Indian muslim who used to be a hardcore supporter of the Indian team while growing up and despised the Pakistani team (i really couldn’t stand Afridi.) However, as I grew older and learned more about the deen, Allah made the love of my fellow muslim brothers and sisters supersede the love of my fellow countrymen. That is the true spirit of Islam and there came a time when I started to love Afridi for the love of Allah (btw he’s my favorite player now.) This doesn’t mean that I blindly support Pakistan or any Pakistani over an Indian. No, I support muslims over non-muslims no matter where they are from. There are some great muslims in India and in Pakistan.
So a pious Muslim brother from Somalia is dearer to me than a non-muslim from my hometown who speaks my language! And just like I want Muslim doctors, lawyers, engineers to suceed then why can’t we support Muslim sports personalities too? (Btw I’m a big fan of Hashim Amla and he plays for South Africa)
I think our youth need these sports personalities to look upto. If the pakistani cricketers were to go away from Islam, I would be the first to distance myself from them.
Finally a lot of people say “don’t bring religion into sports.” My response to them is that then why do you bring nationalism into sports? Nationalism is forbidden in Islam and is an attribute of the time of the Jahilliyah! Also I think it is very SHALLOW to support blindly primarily based on the fact that the person is from your country! I rather support someone who has used his intellect to come closer to Allah. I find myself to have a lot more common with that individual and that is more profound.
Also I want to make it clear that I’m not speaking for Indian muslims. There are a lot of indian muslims who blindly support India but I’ve met an equal number of indian muslims who support the pakistani cricket players.
Hassan
June 22, 2009 at 2:41 PM
This is the best comment ever. Although I never mind my indian muslim brothers supporting their team in cricket match. For me they can support it as much as they want, but they should remember to feel closer to us when it matters. I would take good Indian Muslim friend over Pakistani hindu or christian or even grave-worshippers calling themselves muslims.
Afridi in front of millions watching attributed his success in most humble way to Allah, saying he is nothing without Allah’s help showing true tawakkul.
Suhail
June 22, 2009 at 6:04 PM
Yes very nice comment. Muslims are my brother and i prefer muslims over non muslims in any case. Sports is no different. As a muslim from India i do find myself happy seeing a muslim triumph. Pakistani muslims are my brothers and sisters and i would prefer them anyday compared to Indian hindus.
Ali
June 22, 2009 at 6:58 PM
Ajooba,
Thanking Allah for victory is one thing and cursing and abusing on the field shows a contradictory behavior of a Muslim. Nonetheless, it’s always good to see anyone thank Allah. But that’s not bringing religion into sports. When you meet Pakistanis, most of them actually believe that when the play India, it’s Islam vs. Kaafir. And this is the kind of rhetoric which most of the Indian Muslims so strongly oppose. And no respect for the non-Muslim (Hindus especially) almost to the point of de-humanizing them to worthless creatures. The arrogance and ignorance that Pakistan shows is no form of Dawah. When you live around hindus, one would know how simple and innocent most of these people are. And to live amongst them and pray 5 times a day and do charity, and be good to them is the real dawah.
And Ajooba, like I mentioned before, Cricket like any other sports is based on nationalism. Lets not fool ourselves.
And by supporting Indian team, I ‘m not hating on Pakistanis or anyone. This is a purely sporting decision and not a religious one. And there is nothing wrong in supporting and liking your country. I would always want to support people like Sachin and Irfan Pathan over the arrogance of Shoaib Akhtar and gang. Muslim or not Muslims.
Btw Ajooba, is it ok for Bangladeshis to support their team based on religion or they should support Pakistan? And I guess a fatwa should pass to people like Irfan Pathan, to lose purposely so that he can help the ‘ummah’ at large to win.
Ajooba
June 22, 2009 at 8:30 PM
Ali,
First of all Amad is not telling Indian Muslims to support Pakistan. Quit reading between the lines. He said it clearly that pakistan is far from being an islamic country. He and I are merely saying that we should support pious muslims (individuals) over non-muslims when it comes to the duniya.
Nobody here said that Pakistan vs India is Islam vs Kaafirs and neither do most of the Pakistanis think that (I have grown up amongst many Pakistanis.) Also your argument that Pakistani players are arrogant and somehow Indian players are not is completely baseless. Some of the biggest egos in world cricket belong to a few Indian players and I will let you figure it out who they are.
You supporting India is not based on a “sporting decision.” If it were a purely sporting decision then you would support a team based on their skill and talent, in which case you would support Australia. But you’re supporting primarily based on affinity. This is sort of a “I will blindly support my qabila” attitude which Islam came to eradicate.
Also let’s be realisitc. When India or Pakistan or any other team wins, does it really make a difference in our lives? The answer is NO. The only people who benefit are the players. They benefit financially and they also get fame. From that standpoint, I rather my muslim brother (no matter where he is from) benefit in this duniya than a non muslim. We should want our muslim brothers to excel in this duniya just as we want them to suceed in the akhira. It has nothing to do with Pakistan as a nation. Also I am also against “Nationalistic Pakistanis” just like I am against Nationalistic Indians. Islam != Nationalism.
Finally, here are some STRONG reasons why I do not support the Indian cricket team:
1. You and I know that the majority of the hindus are involved in open shirk when it comes to the Indian team. They literally worship mortals like Sachin, Yuvraj and refer to them as God (audhu billah) when they perform well. Many hindus have mentioned that phrase to me and you will see their blogs are full of such talk. As muslims, we should DESPISE this and therefore I am against the Indian team doing well because when they do well, this shirk is widespread.
2. As muslims, we judge people on their outwardly actions and we do not know what is in a person’s heart. Allah knows and He will judge based on that. But we judge based on what is apparent from the person (this was the way of the Sahaba) and we do not try to guess what’s in a person’s heart. So when an Indian Muslim player like Irfan Pathan is openly involved in such activity ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfSJSAFYgSE ) we reject it and I distance myself from him. Mind you, if you watch the video, you will notice a judge who happens to hails from Pakistan! I also do not support him just because he is from Pakistan. I support the sports figures who show they are following the deen (e.g Inzamam, Afridi, Hashim Amla, Kamran Akmal etc.)
Also Afridi was in Dallas for Islamic Relief last year and mashAllah he spoke really well about how we should come back to the deen and follow the sunnah. You can find his speech on youtube. Now compare that to Pathan’s “dancing act” and it will put things in perspective.
Ali
June 22, 2009 at 9:08 PM
Ajooba,
if you read Amad comments again, I wasn’t reading “behind the lines” he said we Should support Pakistan because they are Muslims. Please read the comments one more time before you reply.
As for my reference of Pakistan vs India is Islam vs. Kaafirs, I was referring to a general consensus one gets from most of the Pakistanis, at least in my personal experience from the numerous Pakistanis I have met over the years from the Middle East to Canada.
Ajooba, it’s not hard for me to find something on Afridi, shoaib akhtar and gang that you have posted of Irfan Pathan. Afridi who you so greatly adore, do you want me to show you clips of him swearing and calling other players mother, sister f%$^$%^$ ? do you want me to show you him watching half naked girls dancing on stage and enjoying?
The previous cup winner, Imran Khan was notorious for his play boy days. And I don’t want to comment on him as he is a changed good man, alhumdililah.
You talk about shirk, have you seen Pakistani tv lately? they have shows on ‘peers’ and other such tarrot readers and I have seen so many of Pakistani players going there and believing in this shirki concept?
I find it rather sad that you come from India and you have pitted Hindus to this category of shirki dirty people. Why is it so hard for you to understand that they do not know the truth, Islam yet. So why would you judge them on the same basis of a Muslim?
Even though their religion is the basis of Shirk, for them its religion as they were born to it. When you so proudly de-classify them into such categories and separate one from the other that is only when you increase the hatred amongst both camps. To be able to practice Islam and live by Islam in such a society is what most of the Hindus look at and adore and have said to our faces – respect the most. Yuvraj and rest who you so despise because of their shirk activities. I don’t hate them because of that, they were born into the religion. Insha’Allah I feel and want all good people to convert to Islam. But if we were to live by your attitude or your neighbors, none of these Hindus who convert in India on a daily basis would ever come to Islam. This same arrogance of seeing oneself greater is what is stopping so many of other Hindus to not convert. And prime example of it is the Middle East. Where thousands of them reside and yet hardly anyone converts due to the racism they face from the Arabs and Pakistanis.
I respect people like Amla (who hails from India too), who would not even wear his sponsor label on his shirt because it is an alcohol company. But I would still support India over South Africa. For sporting and for my national reasons. And I see religiously nothing wrong with that. Bring me a fatwa to prove otherwise.
And you keep bringing this Nationalism as a big haraam and Jahiliya concept. Pakistan was based on a secular nationalistic identity. NOT on Islam. If my nationality or country goals/work is not going against my religion, there is nothing wrong in supporting it when it does good. I condemn it when it does bad at the same time.
As for sporting is concerned, I find this thread ridiculous as it divides people on the basis of nationalism with the mask of religion.
Hassan
June 22, 2009 at 10:25 PM
Apparently you have more soft corner for hindus than fellow muslims. i am surprised that hindus living with muslims do not know about Islam.
Ajooba
June 22, 2009 at 11:47 PM
ya Akhi Ali,
I propose that we end this discussion here. But before I end, I want to say that a muslim should be more merciful and compassionate to fellow muslims compared to non-muslims (and not vice versa.) Also please research the ahadith regarding the evils of nationalism.
Walaikum as salam.
Ali
June 22, 2009 at 6:35 PM
Amad,
Its funny how you equate my support of Indian team as Nationalism and your support of Pakistan as a primary injunction for all Muslims. And hence supporting Pakistan is not just nationalism but rather a religious obligation. First, let me make this clear (which I have to in lot of occassions with Pakistanis) that Pakistan does NOT = Islam. I don’t want to get on the basis of the creation of Pakistan by few non religious, Ismailis and autocrats and ofcourse the British. So lets just stick to cricket for now.
Pakistani cricket team or cricket in general is not played on religious grounds nor is it promoting or progressing Islam in any way. So, once this basis is established. You should realize when you support Pakistani team or Bangladeshi team (I guess they are not “Islamic” enough as Pakistan) you are supporting them for Nationalistic and sporting reasons and NOT religious reasons. Cricketers do NOT play for Islam,they play for their COUNTRY. Pakistan doesn’t play for Islam, so my support of Pakistan is just a ignorant outcry from Pakistanis. I’m sorry but this stems from deep ignorance and arrogance of your country men.
As for Kashmir is concerned, I think being half Kashmiris and knowing enough Kashmiris, I can make the conclusion that Pakistanis live in La-La land when they talk about Kashmir. That somehow majority of Kashmiris are automatically support Pakistan.
I really felt like bringing this out. Because when you make such arrogant claims, you are unintentionally insulting the Muslim next doors, who may not equate Pakistan to Islam. And I think the record is clear when it comes to the ‘ummah’ you proclaimed.
Suhail
June 22, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Assalaam Alykum Brother Ali,
This is a thread about cricket. Also when you are accusing Amad of generalizations you are making generalizations yourself about muslims from India.
For a muslim it does not matter who wins because cricket is just a game and in the end it has no consequence on our Akhirah. But when it starts bringing out these aspects of jahiliyah than sometimes i ponder is it even good to watch these games because of such hateful remarks we throw at each other for something as useless as a cricket match.
As for being happy when Pakistan wins than that is related to muslims in India being happy that a muslim has won. What is the problem in that? I do not see any problem with it.
Regarding Kashmiris than there are varying opinions among kashmiris themselves. Yes some wants to stay with with India and some wants to go with pakistan and some who wants nothing with india and Pakistan. But one thing what needs to be pointed out is that Indian Army is opressing , killing , pillaging, raping our brothers and sisters in Kashmir. We need to help them as much as we can. There is no Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc in this. Whenever a muslim suffer we feel the pain and we should rush to help them. We will be held accountable infront of Allah for what we did for our opressed brother and sisters.
Jazakallah Khairun
Suhail
Ali
June 22, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Salaam Suhail,
Thanking you for pointing out that cricket is JUST A GAME. So to add religious inclination to it is just ridiculous from where I’m concerned. Because you are putting Muslims against Muslims. Its a NATIONAL SPORT. Period.
I agree with the position of Kashmir. That there is oppression from both sides, that is, India and Pakistan. And not all Kashmiris want to be with India nor do they want to be with Pak. Majority of them do want indepedence. But when Islam stands for justice, why is there never a outcry when there is injustice of non Muslims. 10% of Kashmir population was Hindu who were thrown out and burned and killed by Pakistani militia and were never able to return. So, lets keep all into context. And stand for Humanity as per Islam. And not act like tribal people and only support our tribe.
I know I might come off as aggressive and I apologize for that.
If someone wants to support Pakistan, they can do that by all means, but don’t tell me or anyone that you should support it because they are all Muslims.
Muhammad
June 23, 2009 at 3:13 PM
Assalaamu Alaykum!
Allah chose to give us a little bit of happiness in otherwise turbulent times, subhan Allah. We’ve been through a lot recently – alhamdulillah aa’la kulli haal — but the good news is that tough times are bringing a lot of people back to Islam. There is open debate now in the masajids about HOW to bring about shariah in the country, although you won’t hear of this in the popular media. Insha Allah, our time will be soon.
Those who point towards Pakistan’s problems do not understand how complicated the situation is (and I’m not going to go into the details of it here). We — the Pakistanis — have our weaknesses, but what no one seems to talk about is our resilience, and our ability to go on, even though billions of dollars are being poured into the country to destabilize it. May Allah keep us strong and united and may he guide us through these trials.
It’s funny how some of the Muslims from India find it hard to be happy for their brothers on the other side of the border. I was at the Qaddafi stadium, Lahore when India played Pakistan a few years ago. The authorities ensured that a certain chunk of the tickets were sold only to the visiting Indians, who came in large numbers to see the matches. When Pakistan started to lose, I swear a lot Pakistanis joined the Indians in support of their team. The mood was festive and people were happy even though Pakistan had lost. This was our attitude towards our guests even though a large majority of them were non-Muslims. And what of those Muslims who cannot love their brothers just because they are from Pakistan.
My roommate in the US — who is an Indian — keeps telling me his relatives cheer for Pakistan whenever there is an India-Pakistan encounter, although he always supports India. Either way is fine with me. What matters more is whether I am able to share in his happiness. I love him, and my other Indian brothers from the Masjid, for the sake of Allah. May Allah unite the Ummah.
Wasalaam
muslimah
June 25, 2009 at 7:35 AM
” First get control of SWAT, Baloch, Peshawar etc โ unite your own people first & stop the killings and then worry about Kashmir”
pakistanis are too busy watching pirated Indian serials and movies.
ilmQuest
June 21, 2009 at 11:54 PM
As-salamaulikum
Alhamdullilah.. I’m really happy for the Pakistan cricket team. Just one thing though… I think Afridi should now reveal his “true” age… hehe
ASC
June 22, 2009 at 12:29 AM
I agree, For a change, its nice to see something good going on for Pakistan..they played well, and they deserve to be happy and celebrate their victory.
vindicated
June 22, 2009 at 12:47 AM
Yeah, it’s great news. The whole nation is united in the support of the Pakistani Cricket Team at least! Was also great to see the guys showing humility in victory!
SH
June 22, 2009 at 4:24 AM
Awesome match Alhamdulillah. Man it was really fun to hear and exciting to see that Pakistan won!
Uncle Tom
June 22, 2009 at 7:25 AM
What is the significance of the last picture? “Kashmiris celebrate in Indian-controlled Sringar”
Farhan
June 22, 2009 at 10:21 AM
This makes me wish I wasn’t such an ABCD :-)
Hidaya
June 22, 2009 at 10:38 AM
I caught the whole game with my father/brother on live streaming….It was great and it brought the whole family together (even though I can care less about Pakistan & Cricket) but I was genuinely happy for Pakistani nation, finally a moment of happiness after years of misery (probably since 9/11).
Also, my father mentioned that victory was more special since they weren’t favorite to win at alll…It was heart warming to see refugees in Swat valley celebrating the victory..Subhan’Allah a simple game can make them forget about their plight…
F
June 22, 2009 at 12:12 PM
The win doesn’t change much of the ground reality in Pakistan but it definitely offers a moment of joy and cheer amid the gloom.
At the heart of it, it might be a ‘meaningless’ tournament but when Afridi gets up for the interview and thanks Allah(swt), I wonder how many young kids watching are also inspired to be openly proud of their faith.
When the entire team goes in sujood infront of millions of people watching across the world, I wonder how many of the Muslims who are ashamed to pray in public will gain some strength from it.
When I see a rag tag team from a third world country which has been boycotted by the international teams win the trophy, it tells us the small guy can win too….be it in cricket or life.
But then again, it is just a ‘meaningless’ game after all.
Ajooba
June 22, 2009 at 1:30 PM
I want to state that nowadays to openly thank Allah and proclaim your deen in front of the world requires a strong imam (and guts) and most of the world’s muslims fail to do it. We may thank Allah in hearts but not openly.
Imagine that you’re being presented with an award from your company for your great work and you have to make a speech. Will you stand in front of all those non muslims co-workers and first thank Allah? When your non-muslim boss praises you for your good work, do you attribute it to Allah in front of him? Do we mention that we’re grateful and thankful to Allah when we submit our phD thesis? What about graduation speeches? The answer is no.
Now that I’ve put it in perspective, realize that most of the pakistan cricketers (notably Inzamam and Afridi) ALWAYS thanked and thank Allah whether they win or lose and irrespective of who they’re being interviewed by. This is a great attribute mashAllah that should be appreciated and something we should try to emulate in our lives. Imagine the indirect dawah you would be doing.
Imran
June 22, 2009 at 7:17 PM
Well done Pakistan team. My family is form “Azad” Jammu Kashmir and i was supporting Pakistan and i know Kashmiris celebrated in Sringar too. But its WRONG to ask other Indian Muslims to support Pakistan team.
India V Pakistan @ Oval, London: It was very hard for me to watch the match in oval ground, as the Indian behind me were calling upon Ganesh Hindu god, (there was no need for that, its a match) plus Pakistan lost the match. Had to walk out with brave face.
Australia v Bangladesh @ Trent Bridge, Nottingham. All the Pakistani guys in the ground were supporting Bangla (we were there for second match PAK V SA). We wouldnโt have supported Bnagal if it was Bangla V Pak. I know for fact we didnโt in 1999 world cup match in Northamptonshire ground
I don’t understand why people like Amad expect Indian to support Pakistan team? You wouldn’t ask that of KSA V Egypt???
Imran
June 22, 2009 at 7:49 PM
Pakistan T20 2009 Champions…Celebrations
Manchester, UK:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3mMey8CAg8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74tSSkQ432E
London, Uk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ATFfOWsHY&feature=related
Jam
June 22, 2009 at 10:14 PM
I agree with Imran that it is ludicrous to expect Bengalis or Indian Muslims to support Pakistan team on the basis of Islam/Muslims.
muslimsister
June 23, 2009 at 2:38 AM
I know this is a message board…but this is ridiculious. The article is about Pakistan winning…good news! Can’t one topic be introduced without it turning into a bickering match of who is more right. Seriously, this is the same situation in the masjids where the uncles argue and raise their voices while the women are completely confused and unable to understand what’s the big deal. Times like this I’m so glad I’m female. ;)
Zainab
June 23, 2009 at 3:30 AM
Overjoyed people poured onto the streets the second Pakistan won, and lit firecrackers and waved Pakistani flags. Lots of roads were completely blocked. It was interesting.
Akram Yousuf
June 23, 2009 at 4:53 AM
salams bro Ali,
Hope tht u r fine,
i just want u to read this article!!
”The prophet (pbuh) says: “You find the Muslims in their mutual love and compassion, likeone body, should any organ of it fall ill, the rest of the body will share in the fever andsleeplessness that ensues”.
How wonderful is this description! And how great is this statement. It expresses the unity ofthis nation and the bond of faith between hearts! It is the affection and mercy of believersand how they show kindness to each other. These are great meanings that the prophet(pbuh) wanted Muslims to live by and implement until they become clear characteristics ofthe Muslim Community.
Muslims are all like organs in one body, everyone should be considerate of the feelings ofothers so share in each othersโ good and bad times. How? A Muslim should be pleased forthe joy and pleasure of his Muslim brothers when they are in comfort, security, health,happiness and prosperity. On the other hand, a Muslim should feel their Muslim brothersโsufferings during hardships, illness, destitution, poverty, pain, anguish and misery.
Reflect on the words our prophet (pbuh) in the hadith. He spoke of an organ โfalling illโ โ bythis saying, he (pbuh) wants us to reflect upon how, when one part of the body complains,the rest of the body suffers the pain of that part! The word โshareโ describes the unity,coherence, cooperation and speeding up the response to remove harm and bring benefit.
Oh Muslims,This life is full of troubles and agonies. A fellow Muslim might frequently face times ofdiscomfort, illness, anxiety and grief. In this case it is a duty for his Muslim brothers tosupport him and to relieve him from the harm or oppression. The prophet (pbuh) says:โ TheMuslim is a brother to the Muslim. He neither oppresses him nor humiliates himโ in anothernarration in Sahih Muslim, he (pbuh) said: โhe shall not let him downโ meaning: he shall notleave supporting his brother Muslim when oppression befalls him. Supporting a Muslimbrother is a duty regardless of what kind of oppression he is suffering; whether he issuffering from physical weakness or moral injustice or an oppression which affect his soul,honour or wealth. Imam Ahmed narrated that the prophet (pbuh) said:โ “Whoever alloweda Muslim to be humiliated while he could assist him, God will humiliate him in front of theentirety of creation on the Day of Judgmentโ
Oh Muslims,Islam spread this spirit between Muslims to make them become stronger. This can beachieved only if they apply the meanings of cooperation, solidarity and interdependence between themselves. By this, Muslims will reach the point of feeling that they are one body.This is nothing less than the fulfilment of order given by God to all Muslims โAnd cooperatein righteousness and pietyโ [Al-Mฤโidah 5:2] and the call of the prophet (pbuh) to allMuslims โThe connection between Muslims is like that of a strong building – one partstrengthens anotherโ and in another hadith โthe best of deeds is bringing happiness andpleasure to a fellow Muslim; relieving him of distress, or keeping hunger away from him orpaying off his debt”
There is no doubt that the best of fruits for helping your brother Muslim is the help andsupport you get from God the almighty as the hadith stated โGod will not cease to help Hisservant as long as that servant is helping his brotherโ. God is the one who is controlling thiswhole universe; he is the Giver and the Withholder, he is the Expander and the Restrainer,he is the Exalter and the Abaser and he is the Perceiver and the Illustrious. Health and illness,strength and weakness, wealth and poverty are all in the hands of God, as are the hearts ofhis servants.So rush to aid and support your brothers โ God will give you his aid and support wheneveryou need them”
Akram Yousuf
June 23, 2009 at 4:58 AM
So Bro Ali,
In short i mean to say tht there is nothng wrong in supporting the muslims whether he is pakistani or indian or else, so we shud support our muslim brothers in every condition except in the condition when he is not in justice!!!
Akram Yousuf
June 23, 2009 at 5:08 AM
slamz, one thing i want to share tht i hve seen NASIR HUSSAIN (Former England Cricketer) in the semi final nd final at presenting ceremony, he was luking very happy on Pakistan’s victory, most probably bcoz he is muslim!
Ali
June 23, 2009 at 1:31 PM
“ya Akhi Ali,
I propose that we end this discussion here. But before I end, I want to say that a muslim should be more merciful and compassionate to fellow muslims compared to non-muslims (and not vice versa.) Also please research the ahadith regarding the evils of nationalism.
Walaikum as salam.” – Ajooba
Ajooba,
I will always be compassionate and merciful to humans in general, whether they are Muslims or non-Muslims. And this is my understanding of Islam that I have acquired from my own learning of Islam and from the scholars.
You keep repeating the evils of Nationalism but what you failed to understand is that majority of Pakistanis support Pakistan for Nationalistic reasons not religious reasons.
You didn’t answer what I and few others have asked, i.e. what do you do when two Muslim nations compete with one another? Pakistan plays Bangladesh. So do you then individually examine each players profile and see who is more religious then the other and once you have established that you support that team. So, if you find Ashrafuls team more religious and pious then Afridis team, do you start supporting Bangladesh? And if there is way to prove that one team is more ‘religious’ and hence ‘better’ then the other team. Do you think Pakistanis Muslims, will abandon their national team and support the religious Bangladesh team?
You keep bringing the ills of Nationalism but fail to understand what even Nationalism is.
Let me make this very clear, I will ALWAYS support Islam over India or ANYTHING. However, cricket is not a battle of justice vs. injustice nor is a battle of religion or truthhood vs. falsehood. Its a battle for MONEY and FAME.
WalekumAs’salaam.
amad
June 23, 2009 at 6:07 PM
This is hilarious… sort of:
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=217587255354&ref=nf
Ameera
June 24, 2009 at 10:46 PM
That’s what happens when, in a picture of gloom, one finds one spark of hope. However, that being said, this video was highly embarassing. The only bits I found nice were the “hug” and the “don’t be afraid” thing. =D
Oooh, it was such a lot of fun to have us win the final… fireworks went off around the country and a wave of exhillaration spread, as if the Eid moon had been sighted. It was a pulsating, reverberating joy… and for 2-3 days, it was the talk of the country! It just goes to show how much talent is hidden within the Pakistani nation, not just in cricket but in all walks of life… may Allah guide us, we have done many, many wrongs with the country He blessed us. May Allah guide us so that we strive to make this land what it should have been – a model of the Islamic Deen! Aameen.
muslimah
June 25, 2009 at 8:11 AM
“And I guess a fatwa should pass to people like Irfan Pathan, to lose purposely so that he can help the โummahโ at large to win.”
LOL.. I’m also basically Indian and I support Indian team. ha, I’ll admit we indians have been ingrained to “dislike” pakistan. Indian Muslims hatred for pakistan is on the rise after the mumbai attacks (i read in a newspaper). Well, I dont have anything against every pakistani, but well, they kinda irk me. that doesnt mean i’m hatin on pakis. two of my closest friends are paki, and i tease them abt their paki-ness lol. but to be honest, i notice pakis are so patriotic and so arrogant. of course i’m speaking in general terms, that kinda makes me avoid being friends with them. i mean i can be friends with anyone but i cant stand arrogant people no matter what religion they come from. i also notice these same ‘indian bashing’ pakis dying to watch Indian movies and TV shows. i mean what’s with that? you hate us, then go watch your lollywood!! (not that they should cos it’s haram..)
anyway, we are muslims so we should love our fellow muslim brothers and sisters. but when it comes to cricket i’ll always support india, it’s my homeland. i’m not patriotic, but i’ll rather be with my country. it’s got nothin to do with religion, rather i’m talking on a sporty level. the mumbai attacks in india doesnt mean i want pakistan to be bombed (there was indian news channel where they had a discussion going on how to combat pakistani terrorism and some celebrity almost suggested bombing pakistan). even though i was really mad after the bombings i’ll never wish a war b/w the two countries. what really irks me is how some pakistanis are quick to call me or other indian muslims ‘infidels’ when we support India. i mean guys, just admit it, pakistan has issues in the religious extremism department. it’s not always india bombing themselves and then blaming pakis. ok enough of my rant. sorry, if i offend anyone. i dont care where you come from, if your a good muslim, i love you for the sake of Allah :) and that’s why these two pakis i know are my close friends. we care abt our deen before our ethnicity.
โ First get control of SWAT, Baloch, Peshawar etc โ unite your own people first & stop the killings and then worry about Kashmirโ
pakistanis are too busy watching pirated Indian serials and movies.
Hassan
June 25, 2009 at 4:54 PM
You know this is very weird, I and many of my friends had same feeling towards Indian muslims or hindus that they are over patriotic. Specially hindus, because their country is like their holy land as well, so their country is their religion as well.
So for some reason to Indians, Pakistanis come as patriotic and vice versa.
muslimah
June 25, 2009 at 9:18 AM
for the brother who posted irfan pathan’s video, well, did you ever see this one? shahid afridi, shoaib akhtar, and i think the other guy is salman butt (not sure)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUmxSxsxvj0 – paki cricketers attending a dance show in india
and shoaib akhtar in a nightclub in australia:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img102.exs.cx/img102/6259/shoaibakhtar10fp.th.jpg&imgrefurl=http://teeth.com.pk/blog/2005/02/02/shoaib-akhtar-in-aussie-bar-party&usg=__Lc0UQyl6ByMyWKxeoZs0eEgs2zY=&h=134&w=152&sz=6&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=y-doaJN8-YjIeM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dshahid%2Bafridi%2Bin%2Bnightclub%2Baustralia%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den
im not trying to justify what irfan pathan is doing. two wrongs dont make a right. he has a hindu girlfriend..and that’s so haram. bollywood and cricket are like religions in India ..once you get into cricket, it’s hard to be a good muslim.
Akram Yousuf
June 25, 2009 at 4:28 PM
dear sister,
hope tht u r fine, sister terrorist r not muslims coz Alhamdulillah our deen didn’t taught us tht so clear ur mind about them!!! nd Allah Subhana wa Taala says tht ” hold tightly the rope of Allah nd dn’t divide urselves in groups “, so plz gve priority to muslims in every condition even if it is game, coz it will help to clean the image of muslims nd let the world know tht muslims r not terrorist!!! nd dear sister let me tell u i love my indian muslim brothers nd sisters alots even the muslims all over the world means same to me as pakis r!! ND ONE GUD NEWS!! recent investigation in swat shows tht “” BAITULLAH MEHSUD “” one of the chief member of taliban is sent by jews of israel, nd they r financially supported by american nd indian intelligence, his dirty face was xposed by Zainullah Mehsud!!! nd sister last but not least!! dont see the character of other muslims nd xpose them coz u will will not gve answer in the life hereafter of wot they do!!
take cares alot sister!
Suhail
June 25, 2009 at 4:45 PM
So the whole thread has been hijacked with useless discussion. By the way congratulations to our brothers in Pakistan to win this cup.
Abu Rumaisa
June 25, 2009 at 8:00 PM
Actually, Pakistan lets any Muslim make hijrah to Pakistan. Just like Israel letโs any Jew immigrate to Israel. I know many Indians who migrated to India even recently.
Amad
June 25, 2009 at 9:06 PM
Unless you live under a rock (in which case you wouldn’t read this comment either), you probably already know that MJ is dead.
What is wondrous for me is how fast news spreads these days. And I haven’t seen more FB status updates mentioning the same thing as I did today for MJ.
If MJ died upon Tawheed, then may Allah forgive his sins and grant him paradise. Just another reminder for all mankind that you could have the best doctor at your beck and call, yet when it’s time, it doesn’t matter who you are, and what medical resources you have available.
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 8:28 AM
Abu Rumaisa: why will anyone want to make hijrah to pakistan seriously? pakistan is a failed nation. why was it created? did it serve the purpose? India is so much more advanced than pakistan. dr.Farhat Hashmi (a pakistani scholar) herself said pakistan is a failed nation.
btw, in 2007 world cup final, shahid afridi said during the presentation ceremony (when India won):
“First of all I want to say something over here. I want to thank you back home Pakistan and where the Muslim lives all over the world.”
i didnt memorize his speech lol, it’s a copy/paste from a blog. ok, so why do pakistanis think every muslim will support them? MR. Shahid Afridi you are representing pakistan and NOT Islam. just like irafan pathan or zaheer khan represent India. pls get over yourself.
Hassan
June 26, 2009 at 10:25 AM
It was Shoaib Malik not Afridi.
Indian muslims are over sensitive like American muslims, they have to display more patriotism than other and show more hatred towards Pakistan to win the trust of ruling hindus.
Also perhaps this bitterness and resentment is also because India sucked this world cup despite all the hype and money, so I am not amazed Indians are finding other venues to vent their anger.
Get over it, you guys are more than welcome to continue hating Pakistan and Pakistanis
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 11:34 AM
i always get confused btw their names. whatever. first off, I’m not patriotic. go youtube and see pakis bashing indians.fine you guys won but that doesnt mean you start insulting indians. to those Indian haters, I ask them to totally boycott India. you cant post hate comments and still watch Indian entertainment. pakis are so crazy abt our movies, they get pirated stuff across the border. I’ve met enough pakis in life to make a generalization. they are just too haughty & jignoistic . me, i’m not patriotic, i love the country i was born and raised in, but when someone starts lashing out at indians, i cant stay put
.
anyway, it’s just a game. in the end none of us benefit but the players.
and am sorry, i’m not a paki hater, i’ve got close friends who are paki. we care abt our deen before anything else. Allah divided us into nations and tribes so that we can recognize each other and not that we may make divisions amongst ourselves.
“and show more hatred towards Pakistan to win the trust of ruling hindus”
oh come on. there are indian muslims who genuinely love their country.
p.s- im sick of this discussion. cos mostly i dont care. i dont want to argue with my brothers and sisters in islam for trivial matters like race. like we muslims dont have enough problems already..
Hassan
June 26, 2009 at 11:46 AM
See, this gets weird again, you are making generalizations about Pakistanis based on some videos and knowing some people, why can not we (pakistanis) can do the same?
By the way I do not watch Indian movies at all, not that I hate india, but because they suck big time, they are the most stupidest thing on face of earth, shame on anyone (pakis or indians) that watch such low piece of art. (and also religious reasons).
I have met enough Indians (muslim and hindus) to generalize that they are more patriotic than Pakistanis, (most Pakistanis do not care about Pakistan, because its not religious enough for them, to them Islam comes first and they can rightly or wrongly fight their own government to achieve those ideals).
If you did not care then why u jumped in this conversation? If you are not Paki hater, than why say bad things about them? Having a paki friend does not give license to bad mouth pakistanis.
suhail
June 26, 2009 at 12:18 PM
Assalaam Alykum,
I do not get this love for India. I am from India too and have lived most of my life in India but i am not patriotic. Why should i be? Did Allah ask me to be patriotic to my country or did the Prophet(SAW) asked me?
Yes Allah and Prophet(SAW) gave us the rules to which we have to adhere when we have a covenant. This does not include Nationalism or love of your country because it runs contrary to what our Prophet(SAW) and Allah said to us.
The love of your birth place is a natural thing because you come to love things in which you grow up. I also love my birth place for that reason but it should not blind anyone to have these feelings on Nationalism.
Secondly Sister you are generalizing the Pakistani’s too much. Just because there are some idiots who made videos does not mean that Pakistan is a monolithic identity. About the failed nation thing then there are many things at play in Pakistan and too many things to blame. India has its own pandora’s box. Its opression of minorities is a open and clear case. There are many many god fearing and upright individuals in Pakistan.
Also regarding loving your muslim brother and sister more than a disbeliever is an obligatory duty. The love the indian muslim have for muslims from Pakistan or for that matter anywhere is because of our belief. We love muslims from any place on earth.
The attitude that some Indian muslims and Pakistani muslim share against each other is quite despicable and should be admonished.
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM
I was pissed off by anti-Indian comments. that’s all. and bollywood is not that bad. i dont watch it anymore but the last movie i saw was really good. it didnt have any songs, or even a female lead (Aamir is the name of the movie..)
i’m sorry, i got carried away even though i’m not patriotic. when it comes to sports though, i support India. it just irritates me when certain people expect us to support pakistan just cos they are *supposed* to be a muslim country. India has more muslims than pakistan. we are the second largest muslim country in the world.
“most Pakistanis do not care about Pakistan, because its not religious enough for them, to them Islam comes first and they can rightly or wrongly fight their own government to achieve those ideals”
i bet majority of these pakis live abroad.
****************
Akram Yousuf
June 26, 2009 at 11:43 AM
dear sister,
let me tell u every single muslim represents islam!! so there is nothing wrong if he said nythng like tht!!! do u know almost every senior pakistani player offers namaz regularly nd they r very sensitive about their deen nd Pakistan is not failed nation nd there is evidence tht inspite of so much distress nd lack of practice before tournament pakistani team won the world cup!! nd another evidence is tht pakistan is the first muslim atomic power country!!! nd this is not a joke! i m not against India! i m against the indian government who tries to isolate pakistan from the world! WHICH IS ALMOST A MUSLIM NATION COUNTRY!! u shud need to support it inspite of talking against it, if u r talking against pakistan it means u r talking against muslims!! i don’t know y ur heart is filled with so much hatred against pakistanis!! i hve seen many pakistanis tht they got angry when ny violence occurs overs muslims of india by certain hindu communities!! but when india do sumthng bad with pakistan it does’nt affect not all but most of the indian muslims!! dear sister u r again nd again saying pakistanis to stop watching pirated indian movies, i m saying u tht u shud stop watching hollywood nd bollywood movies coz islam does’nt allow us!!!
Faraz
June 26, 2009 at 9:24 AM
In other sports-related news, today, for the first time in National Hockey League history, a practicing Muslim is expected to be a top pick in the draft. He’ll probably be the first practicing Muslim to play hockey professionally.
And Kadri’s background is as unique as his skill set. He’s an individual of Lebanese descent and is also a practicing Muslim – something he was asked about by most of the 24 teams who interviewed him.
“(It was) specifically fasting,” said Kadri with a smile. “Usually you go from sunrise to sunset, you have to fast throughout the day. They asked about that, but I told them not to worry about it too much – just draft me!”
Source: TSN
Akram Yousuf
June 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM
dear muslimah sister,
let me tell u every single muslim represents islam!! so there is nothing wrong if he said nythng like tht!!! do u know almost every senior pakistani player offers namaz regularly nd they r very sensitive about their deen nd Pakistan is not failed nation nd there is evidence tht inspite of so much distress nd lack of practice before tournament pakistani team won the world cup!! nd another evidence is tht pakistan is the first muslim atomic power country!!! nd this is not a joke! i m not against India! i m against the indian government who tries to isolate pakistan from the world! WHICH IS ALMOST A MUSLIM NATION COUNTRY!! u shud need to support it inspite of talking against it, if u r talking against pakistan it means u r talking against muslims!! i donโt know y ur heart is filled with so much hatred against pakistanis!! i hve seen many pakistanis tht they got angry when ny violence occurs overs muslims of india by certain hindu communities!! but when india do sumthng bad with pakistan it doesโnt affect not all but most of the indian muslims!! dear sister u r again nd again saying pakistanis to stop watching pirated indian movies, i m saying u tht u shud stop watching hollywood nd bollywood movies coz islam doesโnt allow us!!!
suhail
June 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM
It would be nice to have some paragraph and punctuations so that we can easily read what you wrote my dear Brother.
suhail
June 26, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Dear Sister Muslimah,
Those pakistani that akhi Hassan mentioned live in Pakistan. I think you do not watch the news these days.
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM
i watch the world news and there’s not much about pakistan on there..
Hassan
June 26, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Huh?
Akram Yousuf
June 26, 2009 at 12:29 PM
SALAMZ MUSLIMAH ND ALL MY PAKISTANI ND INDIAN MUSLIM BROS ND SISTERZ, PLZ READ DIS ARTICLE,
Shaykh Abdul Aziz Bin Baz RahimuAllah wrote an article named “The Evils of Nationalism”
“..There is no doubt that the call to nationalism is from these calls of jaahiliyyah, since nationalism is a call to other than Islaam and an aiding of other than the truth. The consequences of such calls (for the Muslims) was a splitting up of their unity and a planting of enmity and hatred of each other in their hearts and a fragmentation and splitting between tribes and nations. Ibn Taymiyyah (d.728H) rahimahullaah said: โEverything which is outside the call of Islaam and the Qurโaan, with regards to lineage, land, nationality, schools of thoughts and ways, then it is from the calls of jaahiliyyah.” [Majmoo ul-Fataawaa (3/456)]
lndeed, even when the Muhaajirs (those Companions who migrated from Makkah to Madeenah) and the Ansaars (those Companions who aided and supported those who migrated) argued, such that one of the Muhaajirs said:โ O Muhaajirs! (implying; rally to my aid) โ And one of the Ansaar said: โO Ansaar!โ Upon hearing this, the Prophet sallallaahu โalayhi wa sallam said:โIs it with the calls of Jaahiliyyah that you call, and l am still amongst you!โ And he became very angry at that.โ [Related by al-Bukhaaree (8/137)]
The Prophet sallallaahu โalayhi wa sallam said:โWhosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaaโah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for โasabiyyah (partisanship and party s pirit), or calling to โasabiyyah, or assisting โasabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah.” [Sahih Muslim (6/21) from Abu Hurayrah radiallaahu’Anhu ]
… Narrated by Abu Da’wud that the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,
“He is not one us who calls for `Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for `Asabiyyah or who dies for `Asabiyyah.”
And in another Hadith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) referring to nationalism, racism, and patriotism said: “Leave it, it is rotten.” [Muslim and Bukhari] and in the Hadith recorded in Mishkat al-Masabith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said, “He who calls for `Asabiyyah is as if he bit his father’s genitals” Also, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said, narrated by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud
“There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of Allah they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose. Behold, Allah has removed from you the arrogance of the Time of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance) with its boast of ancestral glories.
Also, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said, “Undoubtedly Allah has removed from you the pride of arrogance of the age of Jahilliyah and the glorification of ancestors.”
You are all the children of Adam and Adam was made of clay. People should give up their pride in nations because that is a coal from the coals of Hell-fire. If they do not give this up Allah (swt) will consider them lowerthan the lowly worm which pushes itself through Khara (dung).” [Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi]
WaAllahu Ta’ala A’lam
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 1:11 PM
jazakAllah khayr for that. but i guess my posts are being misunderstood. i didnt mean to bash pakistanis. sorry if i came off that way..
Akram Yousuf
June 26, 2009 at 12:36 PM
SO DEAR SISTER I M NOT SUPPORTING PAKISTAN NOT EVEN EVEN I XPECT U TO SUPPORT PAKISTAN!!! I ONLY WANT U TO SUPPORT MUSLIMS!! ND STOP HATING PAKISTAN!! THTS ALL
Akram Yousuf
June 26, 2009 at 12:40 PM
OK SUHAIL BRO,
I WILL TAKE CARE OF IT NEXT TIME. THNX ALOT
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 1:06 PM
br.suhail, like i said im not patriotic. but i’m talking on the basis of my own personal experience. i was once asked by a pakistani if i’m a muslim. like i would be in hijab and jilbab if i were a hindu! I dont know why they cant digest the fact that indians can be muslims?
“There are many many god fearing and upright individuals in Pakistan.”
and all over the world.
Also regarding loving your muslim brother and sister more than a disbeliever is an obligatory duty. The love the indian muslim have for muslims from Pakistan or for that matter anywhere is because of our belief. We love muslims from any place on earth”
that’s true. but we are talking sports here. pakistani team represents pakistan. they play for their country and not their deen. if they were representing Islam, I would stand by them.
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 1:20 PM
“The attitude that some Indian muslims and Pakistani muslim share against each other is quite despicable and should be admonished”
yeah it’s sad. i had some kashmiri person venting out their anger on me. they were talking abt babri masjid demolition. what abt lal masjid? at least the babri masjid was destroyed by hindus. but lal masjid? these are muslims fighting against each other!
Akram Yousuf
June 26, 2009 at 4:05 PM
thts true sister!
we feel very shame nd feel alots of pain about LAL MASJID, but plz sister for the sake of Allah believe me tht the people of pakistan never wanted it to happen, This All was done by bloody stupid government of so called muslim, Pervez Musharaf!! who hve done this by the will of America!
from my point of view, sum muslims of india hate pakistan because of what they were taught in school in their primary education, but when they grow up nd come close to islamic education, they use to love pakistan……..
nd sister we pakis r nt like tht u think, may be it’s becoz of ur experience with sum stupid pakistanis, but majority of muslims of pakistan r very kind nd faithful to indian muslims, for there is no difference for me between pakis nd indian muslim bros nd sisters,
dear sister if pakistanis want support from there indian muslims, and want to share their happiness nd sorrow with their muslim fellows, i think its nothing wrong with tht coz u r our muslim fellows!
well I LOVE U ALL MY MUSLIM FELLOWS OF INDIA ! MAY ALLAH BLESS U ALL ! AND FILL YOUR HEART WITH KINDNESS AND HAPPINESS ON YOUR MUSLIM FELLOWS HAPPINESS!
Tsk Tsk
June 26, 2009 at 2:05 PM
SubhaAllah, comments like these ensure my belief towards why nationalism is an evil in this Ummah…..Sr Muslimah, you should get married to a righteous Pakistani brother so you can get rid of this india and pakistan thing…. ;-)
Interracial marriages are a key to end nationalism and to re-unite Muslims back on Tawheed only.
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 2:23 PM
no, ive had enough of desi culture :-|
Tsk Tsk
June 26, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Also, it baffles my mind that how could somebody who claims to be a practicing Muslim be proud over the ”entertainment industry of india”?
Things like, why they watch our movies rather then their own indicate the disease that nationalism brings about. If you see a Pakistani watching indian movies, you should advise them as they are your brothers in ISlam about the evils of such entertainment rather then being proud of coming from a country which produces such filth….
Reading these comments makes me question, do we even need to wonder at the present state of our Ummah? Do we really need to question why we are so weak & humiliated in the world? do we ? Why dont we have the glory that our ancestors had?
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 2:26 PM
true. we muslims got bigger issues to worry abt. but, is it haram to support the indian cricket team? my supporting india doesnt mean i hate pakistan or something.
oh, and i ant proud of bollywood. did i write that somewhere? it’s a shame that all the top bollywood actors are ‘muslims’!
Abu Rumaisa
June 26, 2009 at 3:00 PM
“why will anyone want to make hijrah to pakistan seriously? pakistan is a failed nation. why was it created? did it serve the purpose? India is so much more advanced than pakistan. dr.Farhat Hashmi (a pakistani scholar) herself said pakistan is a failed nation.”
muslimah: well, if wants to make hijrah or not… the fact that the door is open is what matters. the comment i wrote was in response to fly’s comment that one can’t make hijrah to Pakistan. btw, I m not a Pakistani.
India is so much more advanced than pakistan! so what? I love muslims & muslim countries no matter no poor even if they are not as islamic as I would like them to be more than non-muslims & non-muslim countries. Yes, India has lot of Muslims & I would say from my experience here, they seem to be more practising than the ones from Pakistan (may b being a minority has something to do with it). But doesn’t change the fact that India is non-muslim country & it’s would never be happy with Islam & Muslims. Sadly, Indian Muslims r no different than American muslims in that sense.. they hate it when their country is called a non-muslim country. They need to accpet that fact as it is. yes, these countries have Muslims in there but it doesn’t change the fact that they r non-muslim countries just like many muslim countries like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Syria, Jordan Lebanon, Egypt, etc have non-muslims citizens but in the end they r muslim countries… overall population, identity & goals determine whether one is a muslim country or not.
I don’t follow cricket but alf mabrook Pakistan for winning… a muslim country winning anything make me proud.
Akram Yousuf
June 26, 2009 at 3:39 PM
slamz
its very true bro whatever u said, Pakistan represents a muslim country while india represents the non-muslim country, it also makes me happy when a muslim nation gets victory!!! just because ultimately muslims will get benefit of victory!!
nd i hve an idea how much non-muslims hve suffered from jelousy nd pain when muslims grab world cup from them, nd i m very please about tht!
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 4:53 PM
you are right. Indian muslims seem to me more practicing. my pakistani friend, who visits pakistan often tells me women hardly wear the hijab over there. btw India is a secular country. seriously, i dont feel bad if you say otherwise cos i’m not patriotic. Ive hardly lived in India..
pakistan played well (not that i watched the match) and they deserved to win, so alf mabrook to all pakis!
shyam
June 26, 2009 at 3:25 PM
you know what !
You all sucks!
i hate muslim whether they r bloody paki or indians, paki dnt deserve to win world cup, they only deserve atom bomb tht india will fire on them, nd u muslims living in our country INDIA, PLZ GET LOST FROM OUR COUNTRY, U DONT DESERVE TO LIVE HERE, GO TO HELL!
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 3:42 PM
it’ll be better if you utilize your time to brush up on your knowledge instead. retards like you are the reason India is so corrupted at all levels. India is a secular country. ppl like u give our country a bad name. for heaven’ s sake grow up and get yourself a life.
shyam
June 26, 2009 at 4:16 PM
Your Country?????
madam ji wake up from your dream
India is not, was not, and would never be your country, India belongs to hindus only!
and about Corruption, its a basic education given to muslim by their parents,
its my dream to collect all muslims of india at one place and fire them with bomb and get rid of bloody muslims! :-)
Hassan
June 26, 2009 at 4:24 PM
But she loves India, and calls it her country, does that mean nothing to you? What would they have to do to show they are equal citizens?
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 4:44 PM
it’s my homeland, my ‘back home’. what should we do to show we are equal citizens? nothing! who cares what anyone thinks. i dont.
shyam
June 26, 2009 at 4:56 PM
i haven’t talk to you hasan pa ji so you shud not come in between us !
why did you pakis interfere in others matter!
well you indian muslims are “salt sinners” in short means namak haram :-)
you live in india while support other countries,
well plz sister of your muslim brother plz leave india and go to any country excepth pakistan coz india will fire atom bomb on it and its land on world map will fades out!!! :-)
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 5:06 PM
They want to extinguish Allah’s Light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the disbelievers hate it.(9:32)
muslimah
June 26, 2009 at 4:41 PM
shyam: mein tumse baat kar ke apne hi nazron mein girna nahin chahti. bas itna kahoongi, agar itni himmat hai to go out there and challenge the Indian constitution that guarantees equal rights to all citizens regardless of color, caste, creed, sex, religion instead of hiding behind a computer screen and spewing your garbage.
shyam
June 26, 2009 at 5:34 PM
indian constituion were made under the views of human rights
thats why hum tum musalmano se phans gaye hain, khud ko to sharam nahi ati k jao but jab hum kehte hain k humare desh ki jan choro phir b besharmi k sath bethe ho,
jb ek ek ko gin chun k marenge tb pata chalege, you cheap thinkers,
there is one way by which you can be indian, simply convert to hinduism bcoz it is the best nd true religion of the whole world!!
one thing i like about u is your views about pakistanis,
โ First get control of SWAT, Baloch, Peshawar etc โ unite your own people first & stop the killings and then worry about Kashmirโ
this shows how much you hate pakistan and did’nt like the pakistan’s victory at all ! i agree with ur thinking PAKISTAN AND PAKISTANIS ALWAYYYS SUCKS!!!
shyam
June 26, 2009 at 5:58 PM
btw muslima is rite indian muslims r much more better than pakis muslim ever could be!!! pakistani muslims always sucks alot while indian muslims sucks little bit…. :-)
Akram Yousuf
June 26, 2009 at 6:12 PM
Slamz dear Muslimah,
Pakistani muslim nation have seen alots of sorrow in the recent years, they have faced alots of terrorist attacks, suicide bombings etc, alot of mother have lost there innocent children and alots of innocent children hve lost there fathers, there source of income were vanished, a large number of muslims of pakistan have seen alot of pain in recent years, i don’t remember ny moment of happiness for pakistani muslims, after a long time we got dis happiness, so u shud b happy for ur muslim fellows,
and sister dont judge the muslims whether paki muslims are more religious or indians!! its all upon Allah Subhana wa taala, He will judge nd gve rewards of it ( may every muslim get his place in jannah). ameen
Amad
June 26, 2009 at 11:45 PM
Ok, based on the wonderful IP tracking, it seems that our “Akram Yousuf” is playing sockpuppet with “Shyam”. In other words, they are probably the same person…
Shyam/Akram: this kind of deceptive practice is unfortunately enough reason to be banned. So, bye bye.
Readers: another reminder that trolls should be generally ignored.
Hassan
June 27, 2009 at 12:05 AM
Wow Akram seemed so nice quoting hadiths etc, interesting alter ego.
muslimah
June 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM
are you sure? that’s really weird..
Amad
June 27, 2009 at 12:59 AM
yes sure.. unless due to a big coincidence, they are sharing the same computer or internet connection… perhaps its like Amr, Akbar Anthony… room-mates having a fight…
but more likely, its just Akram trying to be really smart…
wallahualam
Hassan
June 27, 2009 at 1:18 AM
:D have husn-ad-dhan, may be its Shyam playing Akram. lol
Amad
June 27, 2009 at 2:12 AM
i accidentally deleted Akram’s comment … but basically he admitted he was playing shyam to “unite” muslims..
no more akram…
muslimah
June 27, 2009 at 2:08 AM
well, your niyah might be good, but good intentions dont halal-ify haram actions. are you in India? I havent been there much, but where I grew up, I interacted with non-muslim indians all my life and not everyone is so narrow minded. this is one of the reasons why living abroad makes you a better person. you interact with people from all walks of life and get to know them on a personal level. I know a lot of hindus think that way, but honestly who cares?
going back to the topic, my support for india is a pure sporting decision. pakistani cricketers play for their country and not Islam. that doesnt mean i hate pakistanis. there are good and bad people everywhere..it’s just a game for heaven’s sake.