Family and Community

The Adolescence Myth

Published

June 13, 2007

Originally written for the al-Ameen newspaper (B.C., Canada)

Prepare yourselves, people, for a revelation sure to shock you and possibly turn your life upside down. Particularly if you’re a teenager.

There is no such thing as a teenager in Islam.
NO. SUCH. THING.

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All right, so let’s first define what exactly a teenager is. According to the dictionary, a teenager is: a juvenile between the onset of puberty and maturity.
In this Western culture, a teenager is anyone between the ages of 13 and 19. It’s also a period of time where we’re pretty much expected to be irresponsible, immature, and do really stupid things. We can do the most idiotic things on the face of the earth, and we have a ready excuse: “Aw, man, I’m just a teenager!”

But guess what? That doesn’t cut it. Not in Islam, anyway. In Islam, there are exactly two stages in life for us: child, and adult. No in-between phase where you’re given a free license to be as much of an idiot as you like.
Let’s look at what the Islamic definition of ‘child’ and ‘adult’ is, before I launch into a full rant against the stupidity and incorrectness of the concept of teenager-hood.

The Islamic definition of a child is someone who has not yet reached maturity (physical puberty). According to Shari’ah, the faraa’idh of Islam (obligatory acts, e.g. salaah, zakaah, sawm, etc.) are not incumbent upon the child.

In a hadith related by Ali Bin Abi Talib (raa), the Messenger of Allah (saas) said: “The Pen that records the deeds has been lifted from three people; the insane person, until he recovers; the sleeping person, until he wakes up; and the minor, until he dreams (i.e., has wet dreams.)” (Ahmad)

However, even here we need to stop and realize something – just because your child hasn’t reached puberty yet, it doesn’t mean that they’re totally free.

‘Amr ibn Shu’aib related from his father on the authority of his grandfather that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said, “Order your children to pray when they reach the age of seven. Beat them (lightly) if they do not do so when they reach the age of ten. And have them sleep separately.”
(The hadith is related by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and al-Hakim.)

So you see, even kids aren’t let off the hook – it just goes to show how important it is for parents to be raising their children to be familiar with those acts of Islam that will become obligatory upon them when they grow older, so that when they do reach puberty, it won’t come to them as a shock, having to suddenly pray and fast and wear hijaab and whatnot.

Not let’s look at what the Islamic definition of an adult is. That is, someone who has reached physical maturity – for girls, when they get their menses; and for guys, any of these three things: experiencing wet dreams, the appearance of pubic hair on the body, and finally (if neither of these two things occur) turning 15. From this point on, both girls and boys are considered to be fully adult in the eyes of Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala), and they are held accountable for their deeds. The compulsory acts of Islam are obligatory for them to fulfill – from the five daily prayers, to fasting in Ramadan, to giving zakaah, to wearing the hijaab, and everything else that is expected of us.

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE WHATSOEVER for anyone who has reached this point and who is not obeying Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala) in what is expected of each and every (sane) adult Muslim on the face of the earth.

Right, so now we’ve got that covered. Let’s move on.

So: the concept of adolescence/teenagerhood. It is, in my opinion, one of the most ridiculous and retarded things ever.
In Western culture and society, which we are unfortunate enough to be stuck with right now, the period of adolescence is one in which kids are expected to “transition” from child to adult. However, this transition is rarely ever smooth, and in fact teens often end up acting more childishly than they ever did before. Irresponsibility and immaturity are practically a given when it comes to teens – which is stupid.

How the heck are we expected to become adults if everyone is so willing to give excuses for our idiocy?! Furthermore, this whole attitude of, “Ah, they’re just teens!” is really quite an oxymoron – what’s the point of giving teens responsibilities if they’re not held accountable for their irresponsibility, of expecting them to be mature when they’re always excused for their immaturity?

As a teenager myself, I have to say that it’s also frustrating for us: It’s like we’re being given mixed messages. On one hand, we have some people expecting us to be responsible, mature, grown-up; on the other hand the mass media and the culture around us tells us that at this point, we’re free to do whatever, to go out and have fun and that’s it.
Another point of frustration and bewilderment for us is that we have now reached an age when we’re definitely not children any more and are ready to take on more – in Islam this is recognized and we’re given things to do, commandments to carry out – but in this society it’s really weird because we’re given the freedom to do a lot of things, but we’re not given the trust of our elders, that they believe we’re capable of handling serious responsibilities.
News flash for all the parents out there: This is what is the source of so much teen angst.
“My parents treat me like a child! They don’t trust me! I’m bored!” Yadda yadda yadda… you know how it is.

In the words of a wise friend of mine:
You’ll only find “teenagers” in economically developed societies. Here the adults refuse to recognize that these young people are quite capable of contributing to the community, whereas in poor and developing communities, much like the times of old, every sentient individual is expected to pitch in.
This is especially true where the age of life expectancy is low. Where people have to work hard to survive, you won’t find rebellious teens – or at least it won’t be the norm. You’ll only find children, young adults, middle-aged adults and old adults.

I think she really hit the nail on the head. Honestly, these days the only thing that seems to be expected of teens is that we do well in school – but WHY is this the only thing expected of us? Why is that parents seem to place a good education – something of this dunya – over a good Islamic education, which is far more important for both our dunya and aakhirah?

On the Day of Judgement, Allah will not be asking us if we completed high school on the honour roll. He will be asking us about whether we prayed our salaah, five times a day, every day, at their appointed times. He will be asking us whether we obeyed His Commands, as set down in the Qur’an and Sunnah. He will be asking us what we did to secure our place in Jannah, not at Harvard. He will be asking us whether we ever bothered to use our brains to stop and think about whether He would be pleased with our actions. We will have to account to Allah for EVERY SINGLE DEED we have ever committed since we became baaligh (mature) in His Sight and according to His Law.

Parents, I beg of you: Don’t fall into the trap of Western thinking when it comes to your kids. Don’t think that they should be given free reign to have fun. Raise us from our childhood to be aware of Allah’s expectations and rights over us, for we are Muslims, the ones whose every word and action should be in submission to Him. Raise us to become responsible, mature, capable young adults who can fulfill our personal duties to Allah and who can take our place within the community, under your guidance, to strengthen the Muslim Ummah as a whole. Don’t let us be overgrown children; raise us to be adults.

Fellow teens, I beg of you: Stop and realize that we’re NOT kids anymore. Those excuses we use for ourselves and that other people give us when we do stupid things – we’ve got to stop using them, because they’re not valid. We are Muslims, and we have a goal in life that goes beyond becoming a doctor or an engineer, that goes beyond school hours and goofing off on our free time: it’s a goal for the next life, the eternal life.
Sure, it may seem far off – but none of us will live forever. Heck, none of us knows if we’re going to be alive ‘till tomorrow! And we have got to remember that while other people might not hold us accountable for some things we do, know that we have an angel sitting on each of our shoulders recording every single word we say and every single action we do… and these records are going to be waved in front of our faces on the Day of Judgement and we’re going to have to admit to our sins in front of every single human being who has ever existed. Assuming you’d gotten expelled or suffered some equally mortifying incident, would you want everyone knowing about it and laughing at you because of it? Obviously not.
On the Day of Judgement, it’ll be a kazillion times worse… forget about every single human being who ever existed; think about standing in front of ALLAH, our God, Lord and Creator of everything – think about standing in front of HIM and having to admit for all the horrible stupid wrong things we’ve ever done!!
So please, please, let’s try to make it easier for ourselves in the Hereafter… it’ll be twice as hard working towards that than it’d be studying hard enough to get to Harvard or wherever, but it’ll also be twice as worth it – more than twice.

We are not children. We are not teenagers. We are ADULTS, and beyond that, we are MUSLIMS. So let’s get off our butts, out of this stupid mindset, and straighten ourselves out.

May Allah increase us in emaan, strengthen us in our Islaam, and help us in this long and difficult journey called life. Ameen!

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Zainab bint Younus

Zainab bint Younus (AnonyMouse) is a Canadian Muslim woman who writes on Muslim women's issues, gender related injustice in the Muslim community, and Muslim women in Islamic history. She holds a diploma in Islamic Studies from Arees University, a diploma in History of Female Scholarship from Cambridge Islamic College, and has spent the last fifteen years involved in grassroots da'wah. She was also an original founder of MuslimMatters.org.

59 Comments

southernmuslimah

June 14, 2007 at 12:07 AM

Asalaamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu sister,

mash’Allah excellent post! This is something the Muslim youth of today need to hear so desperatley!

Jazak Allahu Khairan

Reply
- Nusabah
  
  October 25, 2015 at 12:05 PM
  
  i dont think 13 and 14 are adults to be honest.i think 15 and above is actullay an adult.but 13 ans 14 should be just big kids that are getting ready to become adults
  
  Reply
Moiez

June 14, 2007 at 1:10 AM

Asalaamualaikum,
mashallah nice post, I think the same way, but you know what the response of parents will be when you tell them Allah does not care if we get into the honors program or if we get a killer SAT score, it’s this. “As Muslims we should be balanced everywhere and on the top on everything” so we should be good muslims and at the same time getting into harvard and getting Honor roll every semester. AND THEN. When you say that’s hard, they say why is it hard? And they start telling you how they used to walk 5 miles everyday and back and forth, and not have paper and still get the best marks in school etc. For me its just a hopeless situation where now I just nod my head while staring at the ground ,sigh, make it look like they are right and accept that we dont try hard enough and then just go away and try not to get yourself into a conversation with them about stuff like this again. “Just keep swimming”

Reply
hakim

June 14, 2007 at 9:39 AM

as-salaamu ‘alaikum sis,

masha’allah, this is a nice post. I never really thought about this much. Its one of those things that you know, understand and implement but never truly conceptualize. Thanks for doing the work for me. I will be sure to remind my children of this article in 10 years.

Reply
mcpagal

June 14, 2007 at 3:29 PM

Good post, shows that we don’t have excuses for stupid actions in our youth!

Just a couple of points though:
First, is using the word ‘retarded’ not really un-PC? It sounds a bit wrong.

Second, you can’t really deny that people are immature before their 20s (even through them, sometimes). Or is that just a case of being more mature as we get older?

Reply
AnonyMouse

June 14, 2007 at 3:44 PM

Wa ‘alaikumus-salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatu,

Thank you for your comments! :)

Moiez: I totally get what you mean… quite a few of my friends’ parents think like that as well, as do quite a few people in my family. However, my own parents have always taught me – and teach others as well – that we have to get our priorities straight. Absolutely, we Muslims have to be balanced in everything and should try to be amongst the best. However, we must remember that some things are a hundred times more important than others: knowledge, understanding, and implementation of religion definitely comes over and above academic achievements.
Honestly, I would rather live a humble life ekeing out my living in some unglorious occupation while knowing my responsibilities in Islam and fulfilling then, than having the greatest, most prominent career on earth and neglecting to fulfill even the basics of our Deen.
And y’know, it’s not even sufficient to fulfill only the basics of Islam: there is soooooooo much more to Islam that too many of us (myself included, may Allah forgive us all) neglect and abandon because we’re of the mindset, “Oh, it’s not a fardh, so whatever,” and the time and effort that we could be using to improve ourselves Deen-wise goes towards other, more material things.
This, I think, is a dangerous attitude which we all need to strive to correct.
As I said, though, this isn’t to say that doing well in worldy matters is wrong; it’s just that too many of us have skewed priorities when it comes to balancing Deen and Dunya. This includes ourselves and our parents, and I think that for those of us whose parents do push us on in this way, we need to sit down and have a gentle but firm talk with them about this and let them know what we believe is most important. And if, in the end, they still insist on some things, there’s little we can do except smile, nod, and then gently ignore them (well, not really ignore them… but y’know what I mean, right?) and go about trying to live our lives the way we know ALLAH will be pleased with.

Mcpagal: Heh, yeah, you’re right… although I hope everyone knows I don’t mean it the wrong way! (I’ll go back and change it, insha’Allah… but if I forget, just keep this in mind!).

-Mouse

Reply
Medinah

June 14, 2007 at 4:46 PM

Assalamu Alaikum,
Subhanallah! A definite wake up call!! I have an almost thirteen year old, and its already not easy, mashallah!! Sometimes we do forget that our deeds are being recorded, and its a scary thought. The things we forgot, Allah remembers, and will remind us when we are in front of Him. Will we get our book of deeds in our right hands or left? I pray every believer gets their book of deeds in their right hands inshallah. Every youth needs to read this inshallah. Jazakallahu Khairan.

Reply
oldschool

June 14, 2007 at 11:41 PM

I am glad you brought this subject up. Yesterday, I was reading about Tibetans and found out that even a 5 year-old learns how to take care of infants (his/her younger brothers and sisters) and how to steer the cattles when they are grazing. Although they are young and are loved by their elders, they know how to smoothly move into “adult” phase. No concept of “Teenagers”.

Correspondingly, how old was Usamah bin Zayd when he lead the Muslim army? How old was Ibn Abbaas when he was explaining Qur’an in the gathering of the “alumni” of Sahaba? How old Asma’ when she was helping out in the migration of Rasul salallahu ‘alyhi wassalam and her father? Our “current” concepts, regarding childhood, teenhood and adulthood with regards to responsibility, are pretty messed up :S

Reply
Faraz

June 15, 2007 at 1:13 AM

I knew I had read this article before! I did read it in al-Ameen a while back.

What you’re saying is true, that the hedonism of adolescence is fabricated. When you think of our predecessors like Tariq bin Ziyad radhiAllahu’anh and Muhammad bin Qasim radhiAllahu’anh, who lead the Muslims to some of the most celebrated triumphs of our history, it is almost embarrassing that we call ourselves Muslim youth and let ourselves fall into all sorts of traps. This is a largely Western concept, that these years are for amusement and frivolous pursuits; rather, these years can be tremendously valuable, and we will be questioned specifically about this time.

Several years ago, I was travelling through some very remote villages in Bangladesh where there was no electricity or modern comforts. The children there were more mature and wise than most adults I see in this part of the world, simply because they were taught to shoulder their own load right from the start. And really, I don’t know if I’ve ever been anywhere in the world where I’ve met happier people masha-Allah. There was a level of dignity and satisfaction that I have never seen elsewhere subhanAllah. It makes me feel embarrassed almost when I think about my own condition, and the condition of those around me. May Allah protect us and guide us all.

Reply
John

June 15, 2007 at 4:23 AM

You make up a fabricated scenario where you state that teenagers are somehow absolved of responsibility in western culture, and proceed to attack that notion. That is what is called a straw man argument. There is no western idea of teenagers being able to do whatever they want, and you are guilty of being culturally ignorant apparently. Or just a liar.

Maybe you should come up with arguments that aren’t built upon denigrating others falsely.

Reply
Sequoia

June 15, 2007 at 9:03 AM

John,
First of all Mouse lives in the west….and while I do not agree with her on lots of issues, there is absolutely no questioning of her integrity or genuineness (by the way.. i am a horrible speller so everyone please forgive me). She is very ambitious in her commitment to Islam and is infact herself a young lady. I do think what she is saying about teenage years being a time for immaturity is right. We differ because I don’t nessecarily think that is a bad thing, but then again I don’t share alot of Mouse’s opinions :) But it is an absolute pleasure seeing her write her ideas here. I don’t know why you would call or insuiate that she is a liar. She is critical of some western practices that she feels contradict her view of Islam. All of us struggle to find our places in life and to do the right thing. Mouse’s struggle and her worldview have been basically here for the world to see. (I can’t even imagine my ideas or worldview as a 16 year old). There is a difference in not agreeing with the writer and attacking her as dishonest. I believe that is my problem, here John.

Reply
Amad

June 15, 2007 at 9:13 AM

I think John is the one not living in reality. Most of the readers here do indeed live in the West. As Sequoia pointed out (great comments!), different people have different perceptions.

But it is not just Muslims who perceive the Western teens to act like kids much beyond their kid-age. In fact, I was talking to a baby-boomer American factory owner (his family has owned the factory for over a hundred years); he was telling us how today’s youth are completely disinterested in responsibilities and work. That their minds are on games, dates and booze. And because his factory depends a lot on young workers, has caused him a great deal of heartache due to attrition and production losses. This is the same story across manufacturing sectors.

If anyone believes that the MTV, gaming and rap cultures haven’t affected the young minds, precluding them from maturing into responsible adults, then they are the ones who in complete ignorance of reality.

Reply
Umm Layth

June 15, 2007 at 1:59 PM

John, I was raised in America and accepted Islaam in my teenage years. What she said is nothing but the truth. How can you deny it? My mother in law is an american woman and she herself admits it. Her children (2 out of 3) are married, and she thought they weren’t prepared for it, too young and had to live their life like teenagers. Why do we make a difference? Look around you John. Even as a non-Muslim in the past, I realized the immaturity of society. You should too.

Reply
Didi

June 15, 2007 at 10:39 PM

What mouse has done is looked at the state of teenagers in the west and declared that it’s bad and that piling responsibilities on them the way Islam does is good. I disagree.

Maturity doesn’t work quickly (this is especially true for males). It doesn’t go “oh, you ejaculated in your sleep, so now you are ready to take on the full responsibilities of an adult”. Before taking on any responsibility, there has to be a period of learning, and adulthood has a lot of responsibilities, so the period of learning is long.

In the west, this is recognized. This is why we we have drinking ages, voting ages, driving ages, etc. In order to do any of those things, you have to prove that you have the maturity required to do them properly, and having hair on your bollocks is hardly a qualification. I don’t want an immature (by western standards) 13 year old deciding who the leader of my country will be, because regardless of whether or not that 13 year old has had wet dreams, the average 13 year old has simply not yet had the time to learn about policical parties. 13 year olds are very likely to simply vote for whomever their parents are voting for, so why should they be allowed to vote at all? Instead of allowing every

Now, I fully realize that the treatment of teenagers in the west is ludicrous at times (for example, the underage sex laws in the states are amongst the stupidest laws in the developed world), but at least they recognise that maturity is not black and white. Teenagerhood is the period where you *become* an adult, and become *prepared* for the responsibilities you will have to undertake as an adult. People have to be eased into situations – suddenly forcing responsibilities on them and granting them extra priviliges when they do not yet know what to do with them is a very very bad idea indeed.

Reply
inexplicabletimelessness

June 16, 2007 at 1:42 PM

In the name of Allah, Most Beneficient, Most Merciful.

Didi,

Thank you for sharing your opinions, however, I must say, I’m afraid you’ve misunderstood Mouse in several ways:

1) Mouse quoted the hadith of the Prophet (peace be upon him) right in the beginning of her article where children should be encouraged to pray right from when they are 7 and then when they are 10, they should be disciplined. Clearly, the fact that in Islam, children are transitioned into the responsibilities of adulthood refutes your argument of “Muslims force teens to accept responsibilities the day puberty hits.”

2) You said:

“This is why we we have drinking ages, voting ages, driving ages, etc. In order to do any of those things, you have to prove that you have the maturity required to do them properly”

Honestly, I don’t see the relevance of these “ages” and how they relate to your argument. Why? Because, to a large extent, these ages don’t mean much. Drinking age? Pffft… how are high schoolers who go get drunk every weekend living up to the drinking age of 21? Are they proving they are mature enough? Is this “age” helping at all? Some may argue that having these ages divides society and makes children not feel mature until that age is reached.

IE. You are forcing kids to remain “kids” until they reach a certain age. What if the ‘kid’ is mature when he/she is 13? What if they are politically aware? Even if it’s an exception, in my books, this is DISCRIMINATION to marginalize someone based on their age alone.

3) You said:

“Teenagerhood is the period where you *become* an adult, and become *prepared* for the responsibilities you will have to undertake as an adult.”

Yes, but what is the harm of starting when they are younger than 10 and slowly transitioning them to have more responsibility as a teenager? In fact, many American families give their kids chores to do from the onset of when they are 7-8 years old. Preparation should start not at one age, but gradually, and this is exactly what Islam’s stance on this issue is: teach them and encourage them at an early age, but when they reach puberty, they are responsible.

4) About the 13 year old’s “voting”, honestly, I think you are extrapolating too far. However, if you did want to continue this train of thought, I will ask you one thing: where is this paradigm coming from? From a mentality in which all kids are deemed to be “unaware”? Or is it coming from a mindset that kids should be involved with people their age, but also encouraged to read, broaden their minds, take on extra responsibility? I hardly think it’s the latter.

Because IF it came from the latter mentality, that kids are gradually maturing, they do potentially know what is going around in their society, from a Muslim mentality (ideally: Islam is perfect, Muslims are not), then the kids WOULD be beneficial in their ‘vote.’ But this is hypothetical for now.

My main point: Didi, I think your ad hominem arguments aren’t useful because they are blinding you from seeing that Mouse actually said what you are trying to similarly point out: that responsibilities should be given gradually. Although there are some things which I do not agree with from your point of you, there are some things very similar for both of us.

Allah knows best.

May Allah guide us all, ameen.

Reply
brnaeem

June 16, 2007 at 1:56 PM

Didi, I think it is the approach that you’ve presented that is basically the reason behind the teenager phenomenon. We’ve become so used to coddling them and not expecting them to be able to make wise decisions, that they in turn are more than happy to comply.

Of course becoming an adult is a process – its a process that should start *before* the wetdream or the period. Not after it. The example of prayer is case in point. That’s the only way you’ll get responsible 13-year olds.

Western society has so lowered the bar with young adults that you can’t even begin to imagine a 13-year old voting. Why is that? Is that nature or nurture?

When we as a society begin to *expect* maturity and dare I say greatness (like Tariq bin Ziad and Muhammad bin Qasim) from our young adults instead of writing them off as big children, then we will finally rid ourselves of this silly ‘teenage’ concoction.

WA-
Naeem

Reply
Alefyah

June 18, 2007 at 3:31 PM

I totally agree with how Mouse has presented the correct view (Very colorful language I must add :-) )

I remember being an adult by the time I was twelve and so were all my friends.

We were brought up correctly, told clearly what was right and wrong, prayed since we were children and therefore, when the time came to record our deeds, we were ready. Thanks to our parents.

Its not to say that as adults we didn’t make our share of mistakes. We did, but we didn’t give excuses- we turned to Allah Taala to seek His forgiveness.

To justify your mistakes under the pretense of ‘Adolescence and Teenagehood’ is really silly and those who encourage it should also now reflect and stop.

Train your children from an early age and they will become responsible by the time they reach puberty.

….and before that, train yourself.

Reply
Moiez

June 20, 2007 at 2:02 AM

Mouse: Haha! Yah I know what you mean.
(Once Again Nice Article)

Reply
Andrea

June 20, 2007 at 5:56 PM

Interesting, but why is this “Islamic”?

I treated my children as cihldren when they behaved like children, and like adults when they behaved like adults. They didn’t have an easy life, but faced up to the challenges with hard work and good humour. Yes, the ‘teens can be a challenging time – but, just as when children are about two years old – so rewarding!

Reply
Amad

July 3, 2007 at 9:38 AM

This post was taken off “for technical repairs” and is back up now.

Reply
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franki

September 30, 2008 at 7:19 PM

I agree with the post, as a non-Islamic westerner, and as a teenager. The concept of ‘teenagerdom’ developed in this country (Britain) between the end of the Victorian era and the the end of the second world war, before that children were seen as little adults, and responsibility was given to everyone, increasing with age, but there was certainly no chance to behave immaturely once you were no longer an infant. Part of the problem we see in our society at the moment is the infantilisation of those who are actually capable of adult behaviour; we can see this in the job market; before the war the system of apprenticeships was healthy and a vital part of the economy. Having training and an income gave young people a measure of self esteem and usefullness; they helped themselves, they’re families, and the economy, and they had a place in society that afforded them respect. Now young people are expected to do little more than go to school, and possibly do a little work of the kind that no adult really wants to do. What does this tell young people? That we are not productive members of society, that we are not capable of ‘real’ work, or ‘desirable’ work, and that no one trusts us anyway. So we behave the way we feel we are expected to behave: immaturely, and in a way that reflects our percieved status as a drag on society.

Education is a wonderful thing, and the fact that everyone can now access it in this country is fantastic, but young adults need to be given a place in society that builds their self esteem and responsibility, and the best way to do this is to give them positions that require maturity and productivity, but with the guidance that anyone learning new skills need. The Islamic method detailed above seems sensible and it works: responsibilities are clearly drawn, and each individual knows what they must do, and when, and practices from an early age. Secular society could learn a lot from this method, by taking the basics and applying them in a model to treat young adults not as mollycoddled ‘teenagers’, but as responsible young people with a role to play and something to give. After all, if we carry on like this, the whole world will be run by teenagers who never grew up.

Reply
k.fisher

September 30, 2008 at 9:14 PM

Hurray!! I am not Muslim, but Christian. I came across your post while stumbling, and the title caught my eye. This message should be read by ALL people of all societies and religions! I am proud of your boldness and impressed by your wisdom. God be praised! Thank youuuuuuu for your speaking out. I do plan to forward your post.

Well done!… K. Fisher

Reply
AnonyMouse

October 2, 2008 at 1:27 PM

@ Franky and K. Fisher

Thank you!
I think it’s incredibly important that all children be raised with the awareness that very soon they’re going to be young adults, and should do their utmost to become fully mature members of society who have the potential to accomplish great things. As everyone knows, the children of today are the leaders of tomorrow – and what kind of people do we want ruling the world?!

May God guide us all to the Truth and that which is most pleasing to Him, ameen.

Reply
H.S. the cub

November 16, 2008 at 1:36 PM

Salaams, everyone!

I totally agree with Mouse and whenever I tend to neglect my duties a s a Muslim and then blame my age as being a phase where one’s mind is filled only with shallow, worldly thoughts, I remind myself of Ali (R.A) who accepted Islam when he was only 12 ( I think), which clearly shows how much of depth and insight he possessed. Hidayat does come from Allah only but still…….

Anyway, Wassalam!

Reply
Islamist

November 22, 2008 at 10:50 PM

Assalammou’alaikum evryone. Alhamduliilah its really nice to hear our youth taking about islam. nowadays, wenever u meet a young man or lady, they just talk abt dunya its amusemants. Alhamdulillah we still hav this young strong and united ummah talking abt islam. I totally agree with mouse tht islam come before evrythng. If we apply this concept in our life,zen sure inshaAllah we will be sucessful both in dunya and akhirat

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Pingback: The Adolesence Myth | The Revival
mpescatori

September 30, 2009 at 9:23 AM

I have done my best to read all of Mouse’s article, and rapidly gone through the comments.
Carefully, but quickly.

There are a few points which I feel should be addressed.

First of all, as an Italian and a “Mediterranean Classical”, I take pride in reminding myself (and others) that it was Greco-Roman philosophy that created modern institutions, modern principles and codes of conduct such as the Magna charta, the Bill of Rights, the Unversal Declaration of Human Rights, approved by the Assembly og the United nations in 1948.

Because of an extraordinarily recent event such as the victory of USA and UK ni the 2nd World war, English has become the most influential langiage in cultural and commercial exchanges.
This has lead people to believe that “anything Western” is certainly portrayed in the English langiage.
Nothing could be farther away from the truth.

Spanish, French, Italian, Greek teenagers are much more similar to their conuterparts in Marocco, Algeria, Egypt, Jordan and Turkey than they are to those in Swedem UK or USA, both for moral and for ethical values.

Secondly, their parents have much more “traditional” values than those of the “anglosaxon” nations aforementioned.
Mediterraneans have been tolerating Americans, Britons and Scandinavians make themselves ridiculous decades before television was invented, let alone the internet or long-distance jet planes.

On the other hand, “Mediterranean Europeans” suffer (or should I say, “take offense”) when they are portrayed as “sinners” and accused of “…they do that in California”
Really ? That do that in California?
And what should a good, pious Algerian think when they do something else in Indonesia?
I hope you see my point.

TEENAGERS.

In ancient, agricultural times, the “adolescent” (Latin word meaning “to be nourished, to grow up”) was the very young man/woman who was trained as an apprentice in a trade, if a boy also learned the basics about military skills (if nothing else, to defend his crops from bandits)
It was an important age; Ancient Romans even differentiated between the “adolescent” and the “iuvenis” or “young man”, when one had full adult duties BUT was not allowed to marry yet, until he could prove he had a worthy job/skill and could properly maintain a family.
In those days, turning 30 (that was the age) for a man was a substantive turning point.

That legacy still holds, and it’s 3000 years old. That’s not peanuts.

If “anglosaxon” teenagers are irresponsible, its their (anglosaxon society) problem.
The anglosaxons made a reputation for themselves as soldiers, seamen, adventurers, but compared to mediterraneans they still have a lot to mature.
The first written Code of Law was published by Ur-Nammu in 2100 B.C.;
Romans published their “Roman Law” in 700B.C., and when they built acqueducts, paved roads and traded gold and silk with the nabateans and the Persians, the anglosaxons were still clad in furs – literally.

So, please, is anybody is cross with Americans, Canadians or whatever, blame it on them.

But to read that “Western” civilization, which originated with Aristotle, Plato and Seneca, is corrupt because of a generation of pimply anglosaxons, is like comparing refined literates from Alexandria or Damascus with the local fishmarket stalls.

Regards to you all.
.

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mpescatori

September 30, 2009 at 9:24 AM

I have just realized there are a few mistypes in my post above, please excuse me but I only have few fingers…

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Shah Nihad Hussain

June 18, 2010 at 12:12 AM

masallah nice post brother… the teens desperately need some tihng like this to get them started…

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mpescatori

June 21, 2010 at 4:34 AM

Salaam Aleikum.
Hello and greetings to you all.

I would like to provide my own personal contribution to this discussion.

Unlike you, I am not (Sunni?) Muslim, I am a Catholic Christian.
BUT
Unlike you, whom I assume to be living in Canada, the USA or the United Kingdom, I live in the Mediterranean basin, in Italy to be precise, where social customs, traditions and social orientation are very close to those one can find in Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, all the way to Morocco.
Indeed, my wife is Lebanese born in Kharm el Zaytoun) and she regularly speaks arabic with her mother.

The term “teenager” exists only in the English language, and it means “somebody who is 13-19 years of age” simply because those numbers end with the suffiz “teen”.

In old Imperial Rome, whose customs and traditions were not too dissimilar from Ancient Greece, Ancient Carthage or Alexandria (Ancient Egypt) there were entirely different categories:
– “Infans” or infant, from birth until 12 years old;
– “Puer” or child, from 12-ish to 20-ish when children were trained to work,
– “Juvenis” or “young man/woman, when girls were wed and men would finally work as apprentices or train as recruits in the army.

Girls were “emancipated” through marriage, men were emancipated when they were wealthy enough to “buy” a wife, that is, prove to the Father of the bride they could prove worthy sons in law.
(Of course they wouldn’t “buy” the wife, but they had to provide sufficient means of maintaining the family)
Until then one was a “Juvenis” and didn’t even have the right to vote.

In this day and age, where in most cases society leads a life comfortable enough to send its children to school all the way through College, “teenagers” are essentially “adult trainees”, working their way through “social apprenticeship” so that they may, one day, have “learned the basics” on what being a grown-up is all about.

Again, my fear is that having only two means of comparison – Anglosaxon culture across the ocean and Arabic culture as is handed down through the Holy Book(s) and family stories – your approach is a little lop-sided; if anyone of you had the opportunity to come and live one year as a High School/University student in any mediterranean Country, he/she would realize that Tunis and Cairo are much closer in mentality to Paris and Rome, than they are to Jeddah and Medina.

I know, I’ve been to the Maghreb and Mashriq enough times to realize that “beauty (fairness) lies in the middle” – “too much is too much,”the Ancient Romans would say, in any direction.

To claim there is “no such thing as a teenager” may be OK in a “primitive” society where everyone toils the land, else nobody eats. Indeed, my great-grandparents were of such a society, where girls woyuld marry by the age of 16, but a man couldn’t even appoach a father to discuss about any of his daughters before he could “afford it”- 25-28 years old… so, how is it that my Father went to University, and so did I ?

In a society where, if you don’t go through College, you’ll never stand a chance to earn a social position to make your wife and children proud, I cannot understand how one should see a 14-year old as an “adult”.
Quite the oposite, our children are our legacy, so we should want to invest in them as much as possible.

“Adult” does not mean simply “has reached biological maturity”; that is a biological point of view, but Man is such a complex and articulate sentient being that it may take eight, ten years and more between “biological maturity” and “psychological maturity”.

Unless, of course, one should insist that it is a good thing that all girls should stop school at the “mature” age of fourteen, never go to High School because they should marry and become baby factories…
…and at what age should a “young male adult” become a father and start working ?

Do you really believe that, in such a complex society as today’s, our children do not deserve the advanced schooling we can offer them, so that, when we grow old, we can have doctors, not just bricklayers ?

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- Sayf
  
  June 21, 2010 at 12:13 PM
  
  Walaikum Salaam,
  
  Thanks for dropping by! We actually have a handful of visitors/writers from all over. This post is quite old, and I hope you would engage in discussions on other articles as well.
  
  As per your response, I think you’re missing the point of the article. The author was attempting to show that the free ride of almost expected destruction and irresponsibility of the teens simply doesn’t exist in Islam. You seem to have equated being an adult with financial independence, thus beginning work/marriage and leaving education – which is not what the article was getting at. A Muslim adult may be hypothetically financially dependent on their parents, unmarried and unstable well into their late 20’s so they could study up to their PhD’s.
  
  The only point of the article was that in their teens, people are just as responsible for their bad decisions as they would be in their 30’s – that’s all. Of course inexperience does breed mistakes which people keep in mind, but when society actually gives teenagers a free conscience, well that’s a recipe for disaster.
  
  Reply
  - mpescatori
    
    June 22, 2010 at 4:33 AM
    
    Hello, and thank you.
    
    I just realized I had already replied to this post a full 9 months a go…
    …saying more or less the same things… perhaps even better than my post above !
    
    I hope this does prove my point.
    
    Incidentally, there are possibly more Mosques in Italy alone than in the entire United States and Canada put together… and guess what ? nobody really seems to have any problem with integration or “tolerance” (what an ugly word… “tolerance” means you accept something you do NOT like; I’d rather say “integration”, because the two cultures merge in harmony)
    
    You may notice that Peoples in the Mediterranean basin are much more nitergrated among themselves than among the wide open spaces of the greater continental plains; meaning that the Mediterranean Sea has done more to promote integration (hence, Peace) than the great praries and lpains one will find in Northern Europe, but also in Central Asia or in Sub-Saharan Africa and even (yes, even there) in Saudi Arabia. It seems that the wide expanse of the sea makes Man more humble before Nature, makes him more peaceful and maritime trade facilitates the mixing of peoples and the mutual understanding of each other’s cultures, whereas the Great Continental Plains make Man feel stringer, more aggressive and Man seems to be much more jelous of his “land” and wage war more easily.
    
    I wish you all Peace.
    
    Reply
    - sebkha
      
      June 22, 2010 at 2:38 PM
      
      http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/category/italy
      
      Over 75 entries there, on Italy alone…
      
      Reply
      - mpescatori
        
        June 22, 2010 at 4:17 PM
        
        Hello, Sebkha.
        
        I am sorry, but your observations are unfair, on a few accounts:
        
        1) there is a law which dates back to the dark days of a (quasi) civil war between radical communist terrorists (“Brigate Rosse”, please wiki them) and the legitimate Government. This law said it was unlawful for anyone to wear head garb which covered the entire face and prevented identification. The only exception being a motorcycle helmet… but you MUST be riding a motorcycle, not pushing a baby carriage!
        
        2) Tradition: up until a few decades ago, women would wear head scarves to cover their hair – not their faces – and the scarves would be knotted behind the head, quite rarely under the chin; this was to keep the hair clean from the dust, not as a means of “modesty”; this does not happen any more, unless you actually till the land (and even then , just wash your hair in the evening!) so covering the face or hair as a means of modesty went out many, many centuries ago-
        
        3) Know what you are talking about! To begin with, Izzedin Elzir, the president of the Union of Islamic Communities in Italy (UCOII) is NOT Italy’s “top imam”; secondly, the UCOII itself is seen as “smoke in the eyes” (i.e., unwelcome) from the other Islamic Communities because UCOII is much too radical, to the point interviews with UCOII are often contradicted by other Islamic Communities. To claim that Italian women should dress like the Madonna is to claim the dress code should go back 2000 years – OK, no more sweaters, shoes, jackets with zippers… really!!! Let’s look at more the important things in life, please !
        
        I live in Italy but have lived and worked in many other places in the world, and there is no place like the Mediterranean – one identity, one heritage, one culture, one People.
        
        I will not disgress in religious quotes, as they might well be misunderstood and mistaken for “propaganda”.
        
        May I bid you a safe passage through the journey of life.
      - sebkha
        
        June 22, 2010 at 6:12 PM
        
        I said nothing, one way or another, in regards to Izzedin Elzir, and what he stands for. I merely posted a link to a website that collects instances of what they feel are Islamophobic people or collective groups, or incidents. They list 75 different entries of what they feel are incidents of Islamophobia that have occurred in Italy. Izzedin Elzir’s remarks are not the end all, be all of what constitutes Islamophobia there. There are many, many more substantial claims of blatant bigotry and Islamophobia in Italy, even beyond what this website has collected. It happens there. Just like anywhere else. There are Italian bigots and Islamophobes, just like there are English ones or German ones. End.Of.Story.
        
        Where did you randomly come up with there being more masjids in Italy than in North America (US & Canada)? There are just over 200 in Italy, and at least 1500 in the US alone, at least since 2007.
africana

June 22, 2010 at 3:42 PM

mpescatori,

i don’t believe italy is a particularly racist country. the attitude to catholocism in italy is more relaxed than in spain and i think this makes for a tolerant environment.

when muslims speak of the decadent west they always have in mind a woman of northern european descent drinking copious amounts of alcohol and making an exhibition of herself. however this is not true of the mediteranean women, or indeed the men, who tend towards more civilty, not excess and not cause public unrest whether in the streets or on public transport. i also believe that the mediterranean woman is diffenet in character to the northern european. i have noticed that strreets on a sturday night which in, say, the uk, which would be teeming with semi-clad innebriated women are virtually absent of women in the mediterranean areas of france. i also don’t think the mediterranean woman frequents bars to the same extent as her northern european counterpart,

i think in terms of cultural attitudes whether towards family, authority, government and food the people of the mezzogiorno have much in common with algerians and tunisians, especially.

it’s also surprising how many superstitions are shared between the mediterranean countries cuting across religious divides.

aside from the marked physical similarity between the mediterranean peoplles,tunisis and algeria also have a rigourous higher educational systems like italy, spain and france.

i also believe that the mediterranean peoples are much more culturally conversant than people from elsewhere. for example, algerian popular culture (which i know best of all) references france, algeria itself aswell as the arab world.

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- mpescatori
  
  June 22, 2010 at 4:25 PM
  
  Hello Africana,
  
  thank you.
  
  I have noticed the same difference in behavior.
  
  My father taught me :”drink if you wish, but never become drunk, because if you do, you will lose three times.”
  “How so, father ?”
  “You will not understand a thing, and misunderstand what little you perceive, and look and behave like an ass; you might well misbehave, and those around you don’t deserve it;
  Your friends will have to look after you, lest you become sick by the roadside, and by so doing you will spoil their evening, and they don’t deserve it;
  You will disgrace your girlfriend by misbehaving, and she will lose face because of you, and she doesn’t deserve it.”
  
  He was sooo right. I believe I got drunk three times in my entire life, and enjoyed it ? not really…
  
  In the Mediterranean getting drunk doesn mean losing face, pure and simple.
  In Northern Europe, they have other traditions and other social rules.
  In the days when my forefathers (and yours, I’m sure) discussed philosophy, built temples in marble and had schools of medicine, the saxons and the Vikings were half clad in furs, tilled the land in the winter and waged war in the summer.
  Such is the legacy of those peoples.
  Their grandchildren behave in the same way, both as individuals who get drunk and get into fights, and as governments who have nondescript foreign policies and sort out their losing face by going to war.
  Maybe…
  Maybe in anothe 1000 years they will understand.
  
  Until then, both you and I will have to be patient and try to teach them the pleasures of culture…
  
  8^) Maurizio
  PS I am Italian, but my wife is Phalastiniye *^) so I know what I’m talking about.
  
  Reply
- sebkha
  
  June 22, 2010 at 4:51 PM
  
  There are certainly pockets of Italy and other places in Europe on the Mediterranean that maintain very conservative cultures, particularly amongst devout Catholics. But to characterize this as a Northern European vs. Mediterranean Europe cultural divide is just absurd, and woefully ignorant of the intricacies of European culture.
  
  Plenty of hard-core, very conservative Roman Catholics can be found throughout Ireland, and parts of Scotland. They are Northern. Very conservative Presbyterians can be found in both countries as well. Plenty of conservative Lutherans abound in Germany too. Again, definitely north of the Med. The French Riviera is certainly not the most modest and conservative place I’ve ever been, nor is any Italian beach I’ve ever seen. Clothing is minimal, and covering your chest is completely optional for either gender. I’ve seen plenty of things on the Amalfi coast too that would certainly not fly in Dublin. Plenty of women drink in public in southern France and Italy too.
  
  Even the presence of religious people in Italy certainly does not insulate from Islamophobia-on the link I posted, there were several incidents where right wing Catholics pitched huge bigoted fits over Muslims praying outside various cathedrals in Italy. There are examples of Italian religious leaders promoting inter-faith dialogues and acceptance, but plenty of bigots can be found too. Geography doesn’t provide the answer here. It’s really not a northern Europe vs. the Mediterranean issue at all.
  
  Reply
mpescatori

June 23, 2010 at 11:32 AM

Oh, boy, Sebkha, I do not know if I am not clear enough or if you are trying your hardest to seek out the exception and push that as the rule.

There IS a huge difference between North and South Europe; I must insist, politely, that there is much more similarity between the two coasts of the Mediterranean than between North and South Europe, in terms of ethnicity, social and ethic philosophy, habits and customs, social traditions and lore, and even supersitions and traditional local “saints/patrons” call them what you like.

Hard-core, conservative Catholics , you say ? That is nothing new to me, my own mother was born in one such place and – believe me – she probably knows more prayers than some nuns.
BUT
would you be willing to say there are no parts of the world where there are hard-core, integralist Sunnis, or Shi’as, or Hindus, for that matter…
Up until the mid 1800’s, Hebraism was perhaps the only “Religion of the One god” which was not hard-core integralist, see what Zionism has done to them and to the “cause”, as they themselves call it.

In truth, I tell you, there has been no greater bloodshed in any period in man’s history, than during wars waged on the assumption that “my God is better than your god” (please notice the capitals, or lack thereof). Indeed, one would argue to the end of his days… but I disgress.

You have seen, or you have been told of “what women do” on the Amalfi Coast ? I’ve been there many times (Rome is a mere three hours’ drive from Amalfi) the only place where you’ll see “barebreasted women” is in private beaches… so I deduce you PAID to get in ? How sad…

Else, I must repeat myself, people are wiser than to get drunk in the full heat of midday… unless you’re German, Swedish or English, which means they are tourists from Northern Europe, which proves my point.

Last, I do not know where you live and where you come from, but:
– in Rome there is one Central Mosque, and many local mosques, and they’re all listed in the phone book.
– there is no law prohibiting the erection of minarets or the establishment of mosques, provided they comply to the same laws regairding civil architecture (as opposed to industrial architercture) which regulates, hear hear, all places where masses gather, starting with Christian Churches.
– how many Christian churches where you live ? How many still surviving ?
Before becoming enraged and offended at my question, please consider… Christianity was a full 700 years old when islam began its expansion.

I have read quite a few Suras; some things I liked, others I liked very much, others still I do not understand.
May I invite you to read at least the Gospel by Mark, Matthew or Luke; I dare you to find any one word of hatred or contempt…
…regardless of the disasters wrought by men of power “in the name of the Lord”, which has happened on both sides..

Peace unto you.

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africana

June 23, 2010 at 6:14 PM

ciao tutti,

it is true that you find conservative people in northen europe but i think that the culture of northern europe is, on the whole, much more more one of immediate gratification than that of southern europe. i think that religion has had a minimal impact on northern europe.i can say that most of the spanish people i have known who’ve spent time in the uk have expressed horror at the alcohol induced behaviours of many young and not so young british people.

as well as the reliance on alcohol, there is also the tendency toward heliophilia. on those occasions when the sun does shine, many people in northern europe risk heat stroke and worse sitting out in the midday sun because of the perception that such occasions don’t happen very often. i think climatic factors are partly responsible for the drinking culture, also.

another area of common ground betwen the mediterranean countries is the concept of honour. i think perhaps this is not so strong in italy as in the past (the comorra, of course being an exception) but it’s still there in the way in which insults are based around mentioning a person’s mother or sisters whilst in northern europe the concept does not seem to exist and insults are based instead around the mention of body parts.

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mpescatori

June 24, 2010 at 10:30 AM

Hello Africana, I agree with everything you say, except…
…except your mentioning the camorra.

There are many types of organized crime in the world, but Italy, rather, the Italian South (most curiously, that part which has been exposed to Greek, Carthaginian, Roman, Arabic, French, Spanish domination in that order, before becoming officially “Italian”) as I was saying, organized crime is sometimes woven deep in the culture of a particular village, to the point that there is a clear distinction between the Powers of the State (police, tribunal of the law) and “the powers that be”, which will penetrate and entwine themselves in other infrastructure (local administration, local health care, commerce) to the point it is sometimes an uphill struggle for the State to fight organized crime.

But to say that organized crime is the only example of “honor” in Italian society is, alas, a stereotype, no more than insisting all arabs ride camels or live next to a palm tree in the sandy desert. A stereotype.

What is “honor”? To many girls, virginity is still a strong point to argue about and defend. To many boys, “experience” is honor.
Just like anywhere else oin the world.
“Marry and have lots of boys” is the common good-wish to newlyweds… what about baby girls? Those baby boys will be looking for girlfriends and fiancees one day, won’t they ?

Insults about one’s mother are a typical “backhand” offense, which show just how deeply planted is the ancient matriarcal culture which still survives in “the Good People”- let us not forget that a very long time ago inheritance was passed down through the mother’s lineage, which was evident and easily proven, much more than the father’s

We have so much in common, our cultural differences are so few, why must Mediterraneans have arguments with each other on issues which, after all, are not even Mediterranean?

Have to go now, have to teach an Englishman about hot water :-)

Reply
- africana
  
  June 25, 2010 at 7:20 AM
  
  ciao maurizio,
  
  of course you are right that was a stereotype and for that i apologise.
  
  incidentally, did you know that saint augustine was born in algeria?
  
  “Agostino, di etnia berbera,[3] ma di cultura totalmente ellenistico-romana, nacque a Tagaste il 13 novembre 354. Tagaste, attualmente Souk Ahras in Algeria, posta a circa 100 km a sud-ovest di Ippona”
  
  http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agostino_d%27Ippona
  
  Reply
  - mpescatori
    
    June 25, 2010 at 8:59 AM
    
    Africana, you never cease to surprise me !
    Are you Spanish, or Portuguese, that you are so confident with Italian?
    Tunisian, perhaps, or Lybian ? This really intrigues me…
    
    Yes, I did know that St.Augustine was born in North Africa, although I confess I could not remember where.
    
    On the other hand, do you know where he is buried?
    Many monasteries claim to host some reliquiaries, but only one small, nondescript little chapel actually hosts his remains…
    
    it is a small, very humble little chapel in Cagliari, Sardinia.
    Even though most historians will insist his remains are now in Pavia (a very important town in the Middle Ages) Sardinians will smile at this remark and whisper that only a casket was transferred, but his remains were kept “to protect the city”.
    
    Indeed, Cagliari is one of the few major cities in the Mediterranean to have suffered so little, when other sea-ports were sometimes burnt down to cinders and pillaged…
    
    Regards,
    
    Reply
    - sebkha
      
      June 25, 2010 at 4:10 PM
      
      Are you serious Mpescatori? It’s a direct quote from Italian wikipedia. Africana posted the link just below it. Africana did not write the Italian there, wikipedia did, which is why Africana posted the link to Italian wikipedia just below it. Good grief.
      
      On another note, I don’t know if it is a language barrier, or simply deficiencies in how both Mpescatori and Africana view the world, because the narrow, rigid compartments they both keep attempting to cram huge numbers of people in don’t hold up to real scrutiny. Both seem to be completely ignorant of Gaelic/Celtic culture and history, and the similarities that exist today between aspects of Mediterranean culture and modern Irish culture, to name but one Northern European example. Family based honor systems abound among Irish and Irish Americans, just as they do among people in the Mediterranean. There are strong clan traditions in both Ireland and Scotland, as well as among groups of those immigrants in the US and Canada.
      
      Honestly, it is as ridiculous as saying that Italian-American mobsters are indicative of the entire Italian-American experience, and ignoring the overwhelming majority of Italian-Americans who helped build the United States from the ground up. Entire cultures, entire geographical areas of continents etc. are not easily crammed into the narrow stereotypes I keep seeing repeated over and over in this thread.
      
      Reply
sebkha

June 25, 2010 at 4:16 PM

Also, the Roman governor Lusius Quietus was a Berber too, just like Augustine. He was a Berber prince from Morocco, who was assigned as governor of Judea in the 2nd century.

Reply
- mpescatori
  
  June 26, 2010 at 3:43 AM
  
  Hello Sabkha,
  
  you too never cease to surprise me… but in a different way.
  
  First you confuse local countryside events with an assumed national attitude, then you preach about hard-core conservatives…
  …now you come to teach me about Medieval Gaelic Christianity ? You are talking of that Gnostic Irish Church which was wiped out in the 7th-8th Century, much as some minor currents of Islam were later annihilated by orthodoxy within Sunni or Shi’a Islam
  
  I do not recall ever having a similar stance with you, I actually wrote “I will not disgress in religious quotes, as they might well be misunderstood and mistaken for â€œpropagandaâ€. In other words, I believe in accordance to my Revelation, you believe in accordance to your Revelation.
  BUT
  Being both Revelations announced, one way or another, by the very same Archangel Gabriel, has it ever occurred to you we might actually be children of the same Creator?
  If Man was created with his limitations, and is thus “finite” in both views and perceptions, but the Creator is infinite because that is His nature (else, He couldn’t possibly be the Creator)…
  …how many Revelations will it take for the “finite man” to fully comprehend the greatness of the “infinite Creator”?
  Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Mussa, Daud, Suleiman, Isaiah, Eliyah, Issa, Muhammad… how many more ? I have tried to use arabic spelling out of respect to you, but the spelling of the name changes with different alphabets, languages and cultures, yet I am sure you understand who I’m talking about.
  I could also quote Zarathustra (who preached Monotheism and the Revelation of Ahura Mazda to the politheistic Persians; he may have been a contemporary to Ibrahim) the Buddha Gautama Siddharta (who was not a Prophet of a God but the firsto Man to find the Way to Enlightenment – and as such is considered to be the Man who is the Guide) and Mani (Persian Prophet who preached much like Issa, but before Muhammad) not to mention the Mahatma Gandhi in the contemporary ear.
  
  Of course, you will not be convinced. So may I quote from He whom you must believe:
  
  Surah 5:68 – Say: “O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah) , the Gospel (Injeel) , and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.”
  
  Surah 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians, saying, “And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say, “We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one.”
  
  I will be happy to embrace you, if you will be happy to embrace me,
  PROVIDED
  neither will try to convert the other.
  
  Regards,
  MPescatori
  
  Reply
George Bush

June 15, 2012 at 10:06 PM

Takbeer!

Reply
one Ummah

June 16, 2012 at 4:30 AM

One Ummah Saturday Islamic Class ISOC

Reply
- ISOC Saturday Class Student
  
  June 16, 2012 at 10:48 AM
  
  al-Ulamah!
  
  Reply
Meeranster

June 16, 2012 at 10:47 AM

al-Ulamah!
Saturday Class points aside, though, this article is very eye opening, and tells us all to take more accountability for our actions and make us better citizens of our country and world, instead of all the trash people associate with the developmental stage of humans, particularly in the West

Reply
that on guy from Al-ULAMA

June 16, 2012 at 11:13 AM

AL- ULAMAH YOLO

Reply
Same guy in Al-ULAMA

June 16, 2012 at 11:57 AM

Shut up YAsir your anyoing

Reply
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Kyla

February 25, 2022 at 7:52 AM

n cant believe you dont see increasing in any good knowledge n gaining qualifications for future survival n living as rewarding!!!!!

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Kyla Meanders

February 26, 2022 at 6:22 AM

*don’t see gaining qualifications n getting education as rewarding and an obligation!!!

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