Perspective
Growing up as a kid in northern New Jersey in the late 90s, my family became good friends with a Bhori-Shia family who lived down the street from us. Though theological differences between Sunnis and Shias are seen throughout the world, setting both of these groups apart, our families clicked very well and became very close, not to mention that their son Murtaza was my age and went to school with me.
That wasn’t the only similarity between us, rather, there were many. Both my father and Murtaza’s grew up in Calcutta, India. Both families lived in similar socioeconomic circumstances. Our mothers became quite close from their initial conversation, both families had similar likes and dislikes, and both had an affinity to their faith groups. Though we recognized that we were a practicing Sunni family and they were dedicated followers of Bhori-Shiism, we did not use our differences to set us apart as much as we used our similarities to come together. When the time of prayer would come, our family would pray in one group while they would pray in their own. There were many areas of theology and worship which both of us differed on, but we were always very close regardless of those issues. We didn’t agree on everything, but we also didn’t fight to make the other conform.
After almost twelve years of not seeing each other, many failed attempts to hang out, and letting life play its role, I finally got a chance to go out and get dinner with Murtaza in September 2013. He had recently come back to the States after studying for seven years throughout the world. He went to a Bhori-Shia seminary in Pakistan where he memorized the Qur’an and completed a course at the same institution, spent time studying throughout the Middle East, and also became certified in various Islamic disciplines from institutions throughout his journey. Murtaza is now finishing his undergraduate studies in Peace and Conflict Studies at Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania.
Reminiscing
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We laughed at all the good times our families had together back in the day. It was crazy how we hadn’t spoken in years, but we both were on a similar track in life. We both memorized the Qur’an and had a humble knack for Islamic Studies in our daily lives, both planned to pursue higher studies, and both had a sense of involvement in our mosques. Much of our conversation of the night focused on our activism within our respective Muslim communities. Surprisingly, as I would explain various challenges that I had faced as a youth activist, Murtaza would tell me his community was going through similar social issues. Whether it was youth programs, addressing social ills, communication gaps between the old and young, general outreach, and more, we found that both of our communities were in the same boat when it came to Islamic activism.
Though jokes and memories were part of our conversation for the night as well, neither of us shied away from asking tough questions about our own theological differences. As a Sunni, I was seeking answers to issues pertaining to the companions of the Prophet, Iran’s importance as a religious head, and more, while his questions were more about historical differences, community development, and the Sunni perception of Shias. These were just a few contentions we spoke about. We didn’t debate; rather we had a dialogue over some pizza, sandwiches, and bubble tea. Though we both got our answers, we actually found something much more important than what we were seeking—we found realizations that could help our communities be more tolerant of each other.
Lessons Learned
- Sunnis and Shias both hold dozens of misconceptions about each other that can be resolved through conversation. Obviously there will be many disagreements in creed, the narration of each side’s history, and basic tenants of faith, so keep that in mind.
- Though Sunnis and Shias generally disagree in matters of theology and worship, there should be an ongoing intra-faith dialogue taking place. Yes, there are things which we obviously won’t agree upon, but there are ways both groups can benefit their communities respectively. When there is room to work together to better everyone’s situation equally, there should be a concerted effort to move forward – especially these days when Islamophobes and the like are attacking anyone that associates themselves with Islam.
- In the West, both of our communities are going through almost the same, exact challenges. Whether they are social issues, mosque integration, cultural stigmas, or youth integration, the struggles are literally mirrored. Most issues that affect us at the ground level are human issues, not religious ones. Religion steers the solutions, but a cocaine addict is not any better or worse if he is Sunni or Shia. He needs help like anyone else needs help.
- Just as most Sunnis do not ascribe to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as the ultimate representative of Sunni Islam, similarly all Shias do not holistically ascribe to the Ayatollah, twelver-Shiism, or Iran as representatives of their faith group. This means that the belief system, theology, and ideology of Sunnism and Shiism is not respectively monolithic in the manner many media outlets and groups portray them to be. There are shades of gray.
- Politics motivates hate from the Sunni and Shia sides. Most of the disdain we have comes from political ideologies that have hijacked both denominations. Much of our hate stems from atrocities that have happened to each of us from extremist minorities and their twisted ideology. Suicide bombings, political death squads, and “honor” killings have nothing to do with being Sunni or Shia, rather they go back to an unstable political, economic, and social climate where these events are happening.
- With the various atrocities we see throughout the world amongst Muslims, we need to consider the ways we can preserve and cherish human lives. To have a conversation, both sides need to distinguish between religious tradition and politics, suppress emotions, and hear the other out. There is a lot to learn and accomplish if we simply start listening to each other.
#Culture1 month ago
islamnation
October 27, 2014 at 2:20 AM
No, thank you. I do not think I need to “share a pizza” with an ideology whose sole purpose seems to be corrupting Islam and Muslims. There might be good Shiaa persons, but that is irrelevant.
There also seems to be some misconceptions in this article itself. For one, Shiaa is a man-made sect. However you want to spin the tales, anything man-made innovated into Islam changes it, am I wrong? Islam was sent by God, thus it is eternal (as we are taught) and there is no need to alter/add/remove anything. I believe people in general need to stay away from sects, and just follow Islam, through the Quran and Ahadeeth. Why complicate it? Look at where Christianity is nowadays. Also, is there not a hadeeth that says that all sects are wrong and only one ‘sect’ will enter paradise?
This is simply my opinion, please make sure you verify everything you read.
Shawn Smith
October 27, 2014 at 7:48 AM
islamnation — You sound like a very narrow minded person. Would you happen to be be a convert to Islam? I ask because many converts, not all of course, also think in this narrow minded fashion. One should be able to find truth anywhere, even in different faiths, and not be caught up in dogmas.
islamnation
October 27, 2014 at 3:11 PM
You are, frankly, the first person I communicate with online who considers facts and reality “narrow minded.” The reason I am where I stand on the subject at hand is because of commiting some time to study it. I simply stated facts in my initial post, facts which you can easily google and find sources for. I oppose and despise dogma as much as you probably do, if not more. I do not believe that you can find the truth in different faiths, but I do believe that the best lies are the ones ingrained with some truth (or that there lies some truth within everything.) And thus, I also do believe the possibility that different faiths once had the truth, but over time have come to get corrupted. That is why I prefer people not to corrupt or attempt to corrupt my religion, so it can stay pure. I believe shiaaism (and sects in general) was meant to corrupt Islam and our views of it by tainting it with human ideologies, at least in our current times. However, keep in mind that this is simply through my research and experience with the subject.
P.S. I am not a convert/revert.
Nihal Khan
October 28, 2014 at 7:32 AM
Hi/Salam Shawn,
Thanks for participating in this discussion.
I addressed “islamnation” in the comments below/above. However inconvenient it may be to get caught up in dogma, at the end of the day religion(s) is/are a set of dogma (an authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true). Every dogma has good to take and bad to leave, but it’s important to understand where each set of beliefs is originating from to see the source and recognize what is most likely truth which leads to guidance and what is that which may have good, but is perhaps shallow/incomplete/fabricated/etc leading to the deterrent of a full package of tredding the right path.
With respect and peace,
Nihal
GC66
October 27, 2014 at 8:06 AM
As Muslims, we were commanded by Allah not to break into sects as the Christians and Jews had done before.
Shia or Sunni matters not.
What matters is they are both Muslim and they both take the same belief in one God and Muhammad(pbuh) as His prophet.
America needs to get this correct……while Islam here is still in the infancy stages.
MUSLIM ONLY!
Find common ground and focus on strengthening the Ummah as one.
Wassalam
Nihal Khan
October 28, 2014 at 7:36 AM
That’s right GC66, it’s very important for us to build that bond.
At the same time, part of being a mature community requires us to recognize our differences and address them in a civil manner. Sadly, we recognize them but don’t do a very good job of effectively addressing/discussing them.
Thanks.
Nihal Khan
October 27, 2014 at 9:09 PM
Can you explain how “Shia ideology” is “corrupting Islam?” As I mentioned no one is adopting anyone else’s theology. And if good Shia people are “irrelevant,” does that mean I can never ever sit with them? And if I don’t agree with them, does that mean I can never have coffee with Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, of Athiests simply because I don’t agree with them?
“Shia is a man-made sect” well actually according to Sunni theology, Shiism is the oldest group within Islam which comprises of 15% of our ummah. All Shias are not non-Muslims. At the same time all Shias are not in one monolithic group as you seem to group them into.
“Verify everything you read.” I’m not providing a historical narrative of Sunnis nor Shias, this is an article on how each other lives in society and functions with each other.
islamnation
October 27, 2014 at 10:25 PM
Hello!
There are many instances of sects (such as shiaa) corrupting Islam. A simple google search can show you as long as you do not close your eyes. But since you want me to address my meaning, here are two examples: 1) Their basic foundation lies on baseless dispute. The dispute that Muhammad’s PBUH successor was not supposed to succeed. That implies that Abu Bakr RAA is a liar/fraud and took up the position for personal gain, despite being known as one of the most prominent Sahabeh and one of the Prophet’s best friends/allies (by the Prophet’s own admission.) This also implies that Muhammad PBUH did not realize that his best friend is a liar, which we know is impossible (considering all we know of the Prophet), wa istaghfurallah. Place yourself in their time (which is not an easy perspective) and imagine why the heck would someone go out of his way to even think of creating a sect right after the Prophet’s death. 2) The fact that many shiaa revere other humans and excessively celebrate/mourn their deaths is also a greatly disturbing trend. This happens despite Muslims being taught that ONLY Allah is to be worshiped. This is also reiterated in the Quran many many times, but let us not go to how shiaas interpret the Quran, for that is even more in conflict with both the “spirit” and “letter” of our shariaa. Etcetera…
You misunderstand the meanings of my writing “share a pizza” and “irrelevant.” First of all, I placed the first quote in quotations because I did not mean to literally share a pizza. I thought it was obvious, but what I meant was that people should not give credence to their ideologies as simply separate but plausible ones, because they are not (for the many reasons.) Also, when I wrote “irrelevant,” in this case, it means that just because there might be good people who are shiaa and they have good intentions that does not mean their ideology is correct, but I am acknowledging that there could be, and probably are, shiaa who (for example) simply never thought about the truth of their sect and are good, well intentioned people. The same way that we do not believe extremists represent our religion. In addition, our faith teaches us to respect people of other faiths and does not teach us that interacting with them is wrong. I do not know where you picked up that idea from. You can literally share pizzas with Jews and Christians and Muslims. Just don’t do it at a bar.
I never said that shiaas are not Muslim, for that is not up to me or you, that is between God and them and I would rather not get into this. It is not our job to assign who is Muslim and who is not. In fact, I believe there is also a hadith that says that speaks about this. (From a quick google search: “Whoever calls his [Muslim] brother ‘kafir’, it becomes definitely true of one of the two.”
Narrated by al-Bukhari and Muslim )
Lastly, when I said “verify everything you read,” my initial intentions were not to aim that sentence at your readers, but at mine. I want people to be more informed about everything they read online, but especially anything I write so I will not be accounted for anything I accidently say wrong.
I hope this clears up my post. Thank you for the article! And as always, verify! (talking about my posts too! ;))
Nihal Khan
October 28, 2014 at 7:26 AM
I feel you’ve either misread my article or have not read it at all. No where did I say to adopt/ignore the other’s theology (which is Shiism in this case).
-“A simple google search can show you as long as you do not close your eyes.”
Well, my eyes are open and tuned to Shia history. Tbh, it seems you’re the one Googling information. As someone who is aware of the history like yourself, you’ll know that the dispute of whether Abu Bakr (R) or Ali (R)’s getting the khilafah was the main contention that led to the division, but it wasn’t the one that solidified a deviated/unorthodox creed according to Sunni theology. Actually, in this matter various companions and even Sunni Mufassiroon (more famously Imam al-Zamakhshari, Bawdawi, and Razi) favored towards the khilafah of Ali (R) over Abu Bakr (R). This itself is a political issue which leads to various other theological issues. So again, are you saying that because someone is Shia that you shouldn’t eat dinner with them?
-“The fact that many shiaa revere other humans and excessively celebrate/mourn their deaths is also a greatly disturbing trend.”
To be real, yes that concept is prevalent within Shiism, but it also exists among Sunni possibly to a much larger extent. If that’s the case, should I not sit and have dinner with the majority of uneducated Muslims in India who do probably visit a dergah once a week?
-“I placed the first quote in quotations because I did not mean to literally share a pizza. I thought it was obvious, but what I meant was that people should not give credence to their ideologies as simply separate but plausible ones, because they are not (for the many reasons.)”
I never said I did nor said to do so nor did I say to accept any of their theological beliefs. All I said was to hear the other out and understand how their community sprouted as opposed to just saying “hey, I heard you’re bad, hence you’re bad.” If I adopted the views of every single person I ate a pizza with then I’d be a very confused person.
There once was a time where a good chunk of the population was Shia through the Fatimid, Safavid, and Mughal empires, hence knowing Shia interacting with those that embrace that history as their own (regardless of us agreeing with their theology then and now) is bound to bring enlightenment into the broader perspective of the general Muslim community at large. We are always upset when non-Muslims make assumptions about us as a monolithic community without ever approaching each other. Sunnis and Shias are fair game for Islamophobes and those that hate us. If that be the case, should we not seek to know each other?
“I hope this clears up my post. Thank you for the article! And as always, verify! (talking about my posts too! ;))”
No problem. No hard feelings.
M. Mahmud
October 29, 2014 at 1:47 AM
Assalamualaikum
One small correction. Az-Zamakhshari was Mutazilite, not Sunni.
M. Mahmud
October 29, 2014 at 2:06 AM
^Read it again and realized you may not have been saying Az-Zamakhshari was Sunni. Whoops.
My own thoughts on this:
It’s pretty clear Abu Bakr RA is the best man after the Anbiya and Mursaleen AS and was rightfully chosen to be the leader:
It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to me when he was sick, ‘Call Abu Bakr for me, your father and your brother, so that I may dictate a letter. For I am worried lest someone who is ambitious says that he is more entitled to the position of leadership, but Allaah and the believers will not accept anyone other than Abu Bakr.’” (Narrated by Muslim, 2387).
http://islamqa.info/en/13713
We already have our theological doctrines set, politics of the past is a matter of history and if there was some variance among some Sunnis of the past, it is irrelevant now. What we
However it is good to reach out to them. That might include learning about their history. The people of the Sunnah of an-Nabi sallahualayhiwasalam should be characterized as being compassionate.
My mom’s side is Shia. I don’t ever discuss this issue with them and I speak about Islam in general terms. They certainly aren’t the grave worshipping folk we find on Youtube videos and I don’t see them slandering the Sahaba RA. At least if they do it, they don’t do it in front of me. They are also wonderful people. Like Catholics. Their beliefs are nonsense but they are loving and compassionate.
That being said, there isn’t any doubt that MANY of the Shia DO slander the Sahaba, many of them say and do things which are absolute shirk and kufr and exalt their Imams to an extreme status. There are videos that prove that and their comments littered across the internet are also proof.
“With the various atrocities we see throughout the world amongst Muslims, we need to consider the ways we can preserve and cherish human lives.”
I totally agree. I’ve read enough sectarian stupidity to be turned off by the extreme anti-Shias. I remember one guy talking about how he won’t be crying over Shias now that ISIS got power(this was around the time they took Mosul.) That’s just utter nonsense. The fact that they are deviants doesn’t make them non humans. Every innocent man woman and child deserves the sympathy and outreach of Muslims.
Abbas radhawi
November 27, 2016 at 6:21 PM
I am a shia ithna ashariya based in Africa but originates from the land of our beloved prophet. I can explain if there are any misunderstood issues about shia faith and rituals. With peace. Sayyid Abbas
shehzeer
October 30, 2014 at 1:03 PM
Sir,
Certainly Almighty Allah knows who will enter paradise.
Sir,
Think of this reality, we have good friends in Christianity, or Hinduism, or some others, we don’t have any issue in having good relationship with them, and I believe there shouldn’t be any issue. So if shiism is a man made sect like Christianity and others, then what is the issue in having a normal, warm relationship with them ? We are not going to practice anything that they follow, we are not going to become any less a sunni either.
If we can have followers of other religions as friends, business partners, roommates, colleagues etc etc , then the same is possible with Shiites also, that does not mean I would accept things, that our rasool s.a.w. prohibited or did not practice.
Mustafa
June 19, 2016 at 1:14 PM
Yes you may consider shia a man-made sect but the christians consider your religion man-made too (man being the muhammad SAW) regardless of how you want to spin it, so what you accuse them of being others accuse you of being likewise.
second of all not every man-made changes in islam is wrong, there are things like good bidaa and bad bidaa. Nabi muhammad (SAW) never introduced congregational taraweeh prayers during his prophethood but a MAN by the name of Umar (RA) introduced this bid’aa of taraweeh and the whole of ahlus-sunnah wal jamah accepts it because it is a GOOD bid’ah.
>Islam was sent by God, thus it is eternal (as we are taught) and there is no need to alter/add/remove anything
refer to my response above regarding good bid’ah and bad bid’ah. Also if we go by your logic shouldn’t the age of marriage in muslim countries be reduced to 9 as per the sunnah of the prophet muhammad SAW marrying aisha (RA) at that age? I mean it was 1400 years ago but since islam is eternal it should still apply today am i right? NO proper context is required and some of the changes will have to be made over time. Even during times of Umar (RA) he reduced the use of hudud punishments against those committing theft because he saw that large portions of those stealing were starving poor people who needed to feed their families (http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com/2012/09/18/umar-on-justice-do-not-cut-the-hand-of-the-thief-who-steals-food-out-of-starvation/). so in conclusion NO islam is not eternal, on the word of god (Quran) is eternal but it has to be interpreted (along with hadiths and sunnahs) by learned men and those in authority (scholars, imams, mullahs, governments today) for it to be interpreted according to the times.
>I believe people in general need to stay away from sects, and just follow Islam, through the Quran and Ahadeeth
If everyone reads and follows quran and hadeeth according to their own interpretations, and without seeking interpretation/guidance from those who read the sources and studied the contexts throughout history (i.e. scholars, imams, mullahs etc.) you will get idiots like boko haram and isis who crucify people because its in the quran or enslave non-muslims because some verses sort-of mention it.
Mohamed Hussein
October 27, 2014 at 10:26 AM
Thank you for writing this article Nihal. This is a much needed subject that, like you mentioned, we always seem to avoid. Sunnis and Shia have been around since the 2nd generation of Islam and the differences aren’t going anywhere. We need to learn how to live with each other.
Nihal Khan
October 27, 2014 at 9:13 PM
Thanks Mohamed!
Razan
October 27, 2014 at 10:26 PM
Thank you very much for this article. The difficulty in approaching this dialogue is that we have been taught that “Shia believe such and such and such” – for example, I was told that all Shia believe in self-mutilation a la the horrible photos we’ve all seen of such happening, that they curse out Aisha and the Sahaba, and that they believe in revelation being directly received by Imams from God after the Prophet died – and obviously some of these beliefs take a person out of Islam. Lo and behold – I found myself praying salat-al-jumuah with people who certainly did not believe in the above, and told me that this was an extremism in our communities. The biggest difference between Sunni and Shia seems to me to be historical and political and juristic rather than directly ‘theological’ – it would be nice if we could, in real life, all come together on our belief in God and the Prophet, rather than physically fighting over such differences in a time when Muslims have enough problems to deal with.
Sahar
October 27, 2014 at 10:46 PM
Thanks for the balanced response Razan. I really appreciate your perspective considering most people can’t comment on the issue without throwing in some form of moral judgement into their views. Much appreciated and spot on! Thank you!
Nihal Khan
October 28, 2014 at 7:39 AM
Thanks Razan!
Yup, the major differences are where you said, historical, political, and juristic. At the same time though, it’s from those places where Sunni tradition would exclaim the source of much of the theological differences between Sunnis and Shias. But yes, there are civil and uncivil ways to address our problems–and many at times chose the uncivil path.
ahsan
October 28, 2014 at 4:45 PM
Salam Nihal,
Thank you for this. I just wanted to say that agree with most of what you wrote but I do slightly disagree with points 4 and point 5.
Shi’sm has a more hierarchial system, what with the murji’a etc, and Khomeini’s newly introduced and very popular (almost majority) view of vilayati faqih, so in most of my interactions with Shia, they do seem to regard Iran as more of center point than Sunnis regard any other country. If not Iran, then one of the murjia most of which do align themselves politically with Iran.
In that regard, I have a difficulty swallowing your 5th point, because I think the various fatwas given by the ayatollahs are politically motivated, as in there is a much thinner line between religion and politics.
Please let me know what you think.
Nihal Khan
October 31, 2014 at 11:46 AM
Salam Ahsan, thanks for commenting.
My intention of writing this post was multifold:
1) It was to show that not all Shias are under the same banner when it comes to beliefs of rawafidhism, belief and adherence to the Imams, and the like which is synonymous with ithna ‘ashariyya Shiism. Though they are not the majority, Bhori Muslims do comprise of a large minority population in the subcontinent and other places in the Arab world.
2) Highlight one of those other branches of Shiism so that people can actually learn what Shia beliefs are as opposed to hear say. I didn’t delve too much into theology and politics for that reason.
You’re correct as most Shias are ithna ‘ashariyya and do ascribe to Iran in ideology, but it’s also important to acknowledge the time when there was a brand of Shiism practiced before velayat-e-faqih and before the 1979 revolution. Speaking more realistically, there was a time when twelver Shiism was not what is has become today and there are those that ascribe to twelver Shiism that would not directly ascribe to the Ayatollahs. Hence, a broader study of history would show how the theologies developed into what they are today–leading to my last two points in the article.
Hope that helps.
Ghaith A.
October 30, 2014 at 3:30 AM
Assalamu alaikum,
I think all of us have the right intention to be guided and steadfast in the right path. In brief, I would say that the right path is only one as mentioned in Quran and Sunna “Ahadeeth”. If someone says that Ali “may Allah be pleased on him” is better than Abubakr “may Allah be pleased on him” while the prophet Muhammad “peace and blessing be upon him” said that the “Iman” of Abubakr is better than the Iman of the whole Ummah “you can find this Hadeeth and check the narration if you like”, then how would this person be in the right path! “the examples are endless for the Shia violations to Quran and Sunnah”.
Just one advice: Specially when it comes to religion, knowledge should precede giving an opinion. For sure, the best source of knowledge for a Muslim is Quran and Sunnah by the understanding of the companions and righteous followers.
Thanks
Mustafa
June 19, 2016 at 12:46 PM
they would be in the right path by invoking the event at ghadir khumm where the prophet SAW said that ali (may allah be pleased with him) is his sucessor. Furthermore the right path is not necessarily quran and sunnah but quran and ahlulbayt as they upheld the sunna of the prophet and many of the supposed ‘sunnah’ of the prophet were later fabricated by people who wanted to work against the ummah. Regarding shia violations of quran and sunnah there are also plenty of sunni violations of quran and sunnah so your claims go out the window
Samy
November 2, 2014 at 7:14 PM
Real purposed was again completely ignored by agreeing and disagreeing debates. Nihal motive was sunni, shia and Pizza but we again taken this discussion to lamb,goat, chicken ,biryani and kabab.
hussein jamal
November 5, 2014 at 5:19 AM
nihal you state that bohri shias comprise a large group on the continent, however the ismailis shias are greater number
Mustafa
June 19, 2016 at 12:41 PM
bohri shia are a sub-sect of ismaili shias