Middle-East
Turkish PM Erdogan Admonishes Israel President Shimon Peres over Gaza, and Walks Off
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AsimG
January 29, 2009 at 7:35 PM
I was going to email you about this Amad.
May Allah reward him and his wife. They are trying so hard to change things in such a secular country.
His wife wears hijab and people tried kicking him out of office when he tried to overturn the hijab ban.
They also talked to his and her eyes were glistening saying everything Peres said is wrong!
Hidaya
January 29, 2009 at 8:08 PM
U r super-duper quick mashaAllah! I came here to post the link from BBC but I guess u beat me to it..olol
Turkeyfan
January 29, 2009 at 8:21 PM
where does peres mention the hadith? i don’t have time to watch the whole thing!! thank you!!!!
Amad
January 29, 2009 at 8:26 PM
“turkeyfan” 42:10
Turkeyfan
January 29, 2009 at 8:32 PM
thank you brother. i’m appalled.
AsimG
January 29, 2009 at 8:56 PM
I watched the whole thing and cannot believe they quoted a hadith and pretended it was just rantings of Hamas.
Why does Israel play this game? If you are having a war against Islam then just say so! Don’t justify your actions by talking about how evil Islam and Muslims are when you have nothing else to say.
Already yahoo has edited their article to include more of Peres talking points. Watch his popularity skyrocket and his words repeated all over.
*sigh* Deaf ears…
mofw
January 29, 2009 at 9:02 PM
The army is gonna punish him. They are buddy buddy with Israel.
Hidaya
January 29, 2009 at 9:11 PM
He received a very warm welcome in Turkey…Thousands of people gathered in airport to welcome him..(my dad said, they showed it live on Geo)
Amad
January 29, 2009 at 9:20 PM
Those thousands are your “average” Turkish people. Muslims and proud to be Muslims. And the majority. But the powerful minority of secularists, supported by the secularist army and courts, continue to repress the majority’s will (such as in the hijab case). If it wasn’t the international community watching, Turkey probably would have had a coupe a long time ago to preserve minority rule by the ataturk-behind-kissers. And I won’t be surprised that after Turkey’s increasingly anti-Israel rhetoric, that the international community doesn’t give the army the signal to move in or the courts are given some “nice incentives” to force the Muslim party out (note: I said Muslim, not Islamist).
Turka
January 29, 2009 at 9:23 PM
No! No one can punish the government! The government got %47 of Turkish votes and underwent a party closing case which ended in failure for seculars! Things have changed in Turkey. I advice you to make a search about Fethullah Gülen. Perhaps you can understand why Turkey has changed…
mofw
January 29, 2009 at 9:25 PM
I just watched the video and I actually got a little emotional finally seeing a Muslim political leader tell it as it is. Everyone else is all smiles, hugs and kisses with these lying murderers.
BrownS
January 29, 2009 at 9:25 PM
Note Peres’ point about how democracy is not just about holding elections but about “civilization.”
Isn’t there a verse in the Qur’an about how nothing except adopting their way of life will satisfy the non-Muslims?
Also, this will probably become yet another instance of Muslims making a scene because they don’t know how to manage their temper or comport themselves in a “civilized” way.
Manas Shaikh
January 29, 2009 at 9:27 PM
“Israel’s offensive against Hamas”
Yeah, right.
abu abdAllah, the Houstonian
January 29, 2009 at 9:34 PM
innalhamdolillah! may Allah bless the leader of the Turks, the secular leader who has not sold out his faith for a cheap price.
every Turk i ever met in Turkey was kind and fair. tears filled my eyes as i type. subhanAllah. that there might be people in Turkey who would oppose him for standing up against a defender of murderers, a man who defines the hypocrisy of the Zionists’ “Shalom.”
that man’s name should be shallow, or something lower than that. it should be the opposite of salam.
mofw
January 29, 2009 at 10:58 PM
Turka,
Things may have changed in turkey but they haven’t in the military which will kick you out if you pray. The only reason the army hasn’t shut down this government yet is because of the whole entrance into the EU thing. When the army was getting all agitated the Europeans started wagging their fingers until they backed down.
mofw
January 29, 2009 at 11:02 PM
Erdogan standing up for the Palestinians is admirable. But let us also encourage him to stand up for the oppressed minority of Kurds in Turkey.
Read more here
mbslrm
January 29, 2009 at 11:10 PM
Hopefully this doesn’t get Turkey kicked out of the EU…
And May Allah reward and preserve him and his family.
Ameera
January 29, 2009 at 11:34 PM
Great news to start the day MashAllah! I was surprised to see, in a BBC report, how the supporters who gathered outside the Istanbul airport were so prepared and organized, with all the right banners and everything. It’s a good welcome for him in Turkey, no matter what the “establishment” does later on. May Allah guide them!
The rest of the Muslim leaders better develop some backbone now.
Dawud Israel
January 29, 2009 at 11:49 PM
I always thought Turkish people were ALL “modern and secular” but from the Turks I have talked to, even if they aren’t religious- they are VERY MUCH for helping the Muslim world. They identify heavily with their history as Muslims. The Ottomans have left a sense of responsibility among some Turks, responsibility for helping the rest of the Muslim world progress and a longing to be what they once were. I think that was partly why they are so secular…because they see it as the best way of helping Muslims. India had this same dynamic with the establishing of Aligarh Muslim University…and also the Darul Ulooms- both by religious men.
It’s enlivening to see the religious take root in the government of Turkey, but I hope they don’t become dogmatic, angry and cathartic and end up accomplishing nothing like some of the men who preach from minbars.
Turkey and Malaysia are the two best hopes in the Ummah today. Educated, religious and up-to-date. May Allah make them lights for this ummah. Ameen.
abu abdAllah, the Houstonian
January 30, 2009 at 12:01 AM
bismillah. alternative to digg the video: http://digg.com/world_news/World_Economic_Forum_Gaza_The_Case_for_Middle_East_Peace
abu abdAllah, the Houstonian
January 30, 2009 at 12:09 AM
bismillah. “…we really need to get people to dinner…” that about sums up the interest of the average Davos participant in the suffering imposed by Israel. sure, there were people there whose hearts bleed for the inhumanities done by the Zionists against defenseless Gazan women and children, and the husbands and fathers who died or were heavily wounded with them. but their sentiments were summed up by Prime Minister Erdogan, mashaAllah.
Alpaslan
January 30, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Turkiye, with its people and military is getting ready for its predestined future and duties, but are you guys ready for that too?
Salaaam alaikum
Taha A
January 30, 2009 at 12:46 AM
Perez is a moron. He was talking about the rockets that hit a setltement. In my opinion after watching the 60 minutes segment, any settler whether men or women are all enemies and are fair game Their goals are to destroy the palestinians!!!
Phil
January 30, 2009 at 1:02 AM
Taha
Who/what are our teachers? Perez or the Quran?
Taha A
January 30, 2009 at 1:08 AM
I really applaud the turkish pm . It is about time some muslim leader stands up to israel. Mubarak and abbas are traitors
abu abdAllah, the Houstonian
January 30, 2009 at 1:17 AM
okay — i’ve reached the end of the whole “debate.” how disgusting is the moderator for giving the lying-Peres-“we-never-started”!-“they-broke-it”-[the ceasefire] — gave that liar the chance to speak in the fourth position? i can understand starting with the UN Secretary — though notice how the sympathetic SG was only given a few minutes. then having two Muslims on stage, the moderator did not bracket Peres. rather he wanted Peres to have “equal time” to what he gave the Muslims. and for the moderator “equal” meant Peres gets to have both twice as much time as the PM of Turkey, but also the right to speak after everyone else. subhanAllah.
and Peres used almost all of this generous allocation of time — from the outset — not to give a single pre-written comment, but strictly to attack the statements of PM Erdogan. “why did they fire rockets against us?” — subhanAllah. may Peres know much peace at night, every night full of delightful slumber in this life, so that when he is in his grave he will burn — wide awake in lasting terror for his sins and lies. may his every night in the grave be subject to a rain of fire that makes his nation’s attack seem by comparison like Gaza’s rockets. let him think then about proportionality. and may his every day in the grave sting with parched heat, like the thirst of Gaza — “There wasn’t a day that we did not supply water and oil,” liar!
Peres never spoke the truth except when he said that he hoped Hamas had learned the same lesson as Hizbollah.
at the very end, i felt sad for the Arab SG — he really looked like he wanted to follow PM Erdogan offstage. but he let the UN SG bring him back in line; may Allah forgive him for his weakness.
PM Erdogan’s first speech was laudable, as was the brief response he started to give (though a youtube commentator said that the translator watered down most of his words quite a bit). i am actually amazed he had the stomach to sit there through Peres’ direct attacks. but imagine what he would done with his time if he had been allowed to go after Peres? wAllaho’Alim, i think he would have ripped Peres to shreds.
Phil
January 30, 2009 at 1:22 AM
does anyone know who the man at the end was who shook his hand?
When the Pm walked off the last guy that was seated stood up and shook his hand. Anyone know who it was?
osman
January 30, 2009 at 2:18 AM
amazing display from the turkish leader!!!
on a side, I think MM should write about what is happening in Sri Lanka, lots of innocents Tamils are being killed with similar “justifications”, although they might not be Muslims, Muslims in Sri Lanka are affected by it.
MuslimahCA
January 30, 2009 at 3:19 AM
Subhanallah can someone translate this for us!? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw9uJ0XgBp4&feature=related
Its PM Erdogan, probably after he spoke at the debate!
May Allah protect him and his family, surely he is the only Muslim leader with you know what like you said and eman!
AsimG
January 30, 2009 at 3:48 AM
Phil, it’s the Arab secretary, Amr something. Watch the longer version and it will have his name.
ibn mohammed AsSudani
January 30, 2009 at 8:54 AM
unfortunately due to Shimon Peres’ speaking abilities his argument would seem plausible to the undecided viewer. I only hoped that Erdogan could have spoken in English as the translation of his words is merely someones interpretation of what he is saying
may Allah make it easier for him and enable him to overcome his enemies, including those within his own country.
watch Amr Musa at 1.04.30, (when Erdogan walks off the stage). he doesnt know whether to follow Erdogan off the stage or take his seat again….its a big decision…but as expected from the leader of the useless Arab league, he takes his seat again in order not to miss the dinner.
muhajir
January 30, 2009 at 10:23 AM
“We need to get people to dinner” was sort of strange. Couldn’t they think of a better reason to stifle criticism of Israel? And yes, it was a sad sight to see the Arab League rep stand up shake hands with the pm then have the sort of ‘deer in the headlight’ moment of whether I should show solidarity with Muslims or not. But when Ban Ki-Moon told him to sit down it was “yes sir” as usual.
iMuslim
January 30, 2009 at 11:19 AM
I tried to listen to the PM’s clip, but the volume of his voice is drowning out that of the translator. Has it been transcribed anywhere for me to read?
Abû Mûsâ Al-Ḥabashî
January 30, 2009 at 12:16 PM
That is so beautiful.
Ahsan Sayed
January 30, 2009 at 1:12 PM
This audio is better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbQsHkVQ_4&feature=related
Abu Safi
January 30, 2009 at 1:32 PM
“The Turkish PM stressed later that he had left the debate not because of his disagreements with Mr Peres but because he had been given much less time to speak than the Israeli leader. ”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/davos/7859417.stm
Not sure what his intention was.
Ahsan Sayed
January 30, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Better audio on this though its still bad the aljazeera has some of it transcribed on the link thats in the post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbQsHkVQ_4&feature=related
Miako
January 30, 2009 at 3:06 PM
Abu,
help me, my knowledge of other languages is nonexistent! was he leaving because his time was up, or was he upset because he was given less time? (and thus left before his time was up?).
This was a brave thing to do. I hope in the future it can be handled slightly better, but when the spirit of justice moves one, it can be hard to speak moderately.
(also, when sent as a government spokesman, one might feel some obligation to defend the gov’t. even if you think that the offensive was, well, offensive)
Miako
January 30, 2009 at 6:22 PM
BIG POST ON THIS NEEDED, urgently!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/1/30/165953/734/508/691070
enjoy! there is yet a free press in Israel. ;-)
MM Associates
January 31, 2009 at 2:34 AM
bismillah. [posted by abu abdAllah]
@ibn mohammed AsSudani — i think almost anyone could do as “well” as Peres-may-Allah-cause-the-earth-to-spit-him-from-his-grave.
all that person would need would be the same unfair advantages: 25 minutes of unfettered time to attack all three previous speakers — men who were given no time for rebuttal, though one of them was courageous enough to insist on time. a moderator who has the audacity to label the event a debate, and who cut off the one man who insisted on responding to the lies and attacks of Peres-i-would-spit-on-you-but-shoes-have-more-range — after all, the moderator was only cutting off the PM of a Muslim country — and why was he cutting him off? we would not want anyone’s dinner to get cold! not when Peres-“we-gave-water-and-oil-every-day-to-Gaza” made it clear that there was no suffering Gaza apart from what Gaza brought on itself. give me a break!
even George Bush could have pulled off a Peres-smarter-than-Bush-but-even-more-damned if Bush had the deck stacked for him like that. heck i’d like to see the Israeli President try to dodge a size 10, much less two. wow, a thought i could smile at. :)
Asad
January 31, 2009 at 11:12 AM
Assalamo Alaikum to all brothers. Well i think all the videos of the event have been removed from youtube. I really dont how they do this. shameful from youtube to block such content. I’ll recommend that if anyone has downloaded the videos then please upload them again. Making a channel dedicated to the event would be a good idea.
Asad
January 31, 2009 at 11:49 AM
The whole debate is still available at http://fora.tv/2009/01/29/Gaza_The_Case_for_Middle_East_Peace
Lets hope it stays.
midatlantic
January 31, 2009 at 12:08 PM
muhajir said:
“We need to get people to dinner” was sort of strange. Couldn’t they think of a better reason to stifle criticism of Israel?
That was the crassest part of it (well, that and the audience clapping after Peres). Arianna Huffington made an interesting analogy of the Davos crowd with Marie Antoinette…this was definitely their “let them eat cake” moment.
Amad
January 31, 2009 at 12:34 PM
Asad, the videos in the post are still working.
Siraaj Muhammad
January 31, 2009 at 4:30 PM
My thoughts exactly. I watched the full clip, and that’s exactly what i thought as well (but kept quiet). he didn’t walk off in anger because of sitting next to the israeli pm – he walked off because he was cut off and not allowed to finish his thoughts.
Although I agree with what Ban Ki Moon, Erdogan, and the Arab league fellow had to say, they were all given plenty of time to speak, and the Israeli PM was given an appropriate amount of time to respond. the rules and timings were clear ahead of time – it doesn’t make sense to agree to something, then storm off the stage because the rules you agreed to and that everyone else adhered to doesn’t sit well with you.
All in all, I know we’re looking for some semblance of backbone from our Muslim leaders, but I really didn’t think this was it. The man with the backbone right now is but one – Ahmedinejad. If only Hugo chavez was a Muslim.
Siraaj
Turka
January 31, 2009 at 6:21 PM
Let me clarify the situation of Turkey for you to have better understanding..
1- AKP government is the child of old radical Islamic SP which was overthrew by the army with a coup in February 1998.
2- AKP government now has nearly 50% of Turkish votes, especially it rose after this occurance.
3- Turkish people are getting more religious and I am one of these lucky persons elhamdulillah.
4- The main reason why we became more pious is because of Fethullah Gülen movement that I took part. The new generation that grew in that movement are well educated and pious. In past, seculars were educated and unfortunately we, religious, were ignorant mostly because of economic reasons. But now, as I said, things have changed and we started to gain money, take higher education, be up-to-date etc.. This movement is the main reason of Turkey’s drift.
5- AKP government wants to join EU mostly due to economic reasons and painting the eyes of secularists, both inside and outside of Turkey. AKP never ever shares the secular ideology, but they are making taqiyyah which our secularists always cry for.
6- I don’t know whether you know, the Ergenekon case is the turning point of Turkey. This is a clon-copy of Italian gladio. Until that time, a lot of secular writers, columnists, generals, soldiers, bussines men were taken into custody and it is countinuing with harsh debates in media. This organism was the brain of the Freemason-Jew body launching coups every-ten-year-period.
7, So, now it is unable for our army to stage a coup against AKP government, because they lost their brain. Therefore, Inshallah Turkey will get the Ottoman soul fully in the state and will be the strongest fist which will explode on the face of devil’s states. And Inshallah all Muslims will get together and stand for Allah’s justice in the world in the way of Heaven!
suraya
January 31, 2009 at 6:48 PM
mr siraj muhammad..
i hope u open ur eyes WIDER..
erdogan HAD to say so in the press conference post the davos walk out..because the secularist in turkey
are drooling to get into EU..
Abd- Allah
January 31, 2009 at 6:49 PM
“The man with the backbone right now is but one – Ahmedinejad”
Brother Siraaj, I don’t agree with that statement. What did Ahmedinejad do for muslims? Sure he is vocal, but talk is cheap, especially if no actions follow. Another thing is the opression of the minority Sunni muslims in Iran and the crimes being done against them and not allowing them to practice their religion, while the thousands of Jews in Iran are flourishing and free to practice their religion and are treated better than the Sunni muslims there. I am not talking about conflicts between Shia and Sunni, but I am talking about the opression of the Sunnis, and that has gone un-noticed by most of the muslim world because it has been covered up and kept a secret by the government. The Sunnis of Iran even had their Youtube channel shut down. Yes they are being opressed to that extent! What kind of a backbone would be needed to opress muslims to that extent. Even a Sunni school in Iran was DESTROYED just because it is for the Sunnis. In reality, I don’t see a big difference between that and when the Israelis destroyed the Palestinian schools.
If some of the MM authors can research the situation of the Sunni Muslims in Iran and post some more info that would be very helpful to enlighten us all on this issue.
Abu Noor Al-Irlandee
February 1, 2009 at 6:52 PM
Turka, Jazzak Allahu Khayr for sharing some information about the Islamic revival in Turkey. May Allaah (swt) continue to strengthen it.
All of us should keep in mind for context with Erdogan’s comments here that trade between Turkey and Israel has increased from 1.4 to 3.3 billion dollars a year (135 percent) since Erdogan’s party has been in power, with one of the largest segments of that trade being in military equipment. Israel and Turkey are close military allies.
Abd- Allah
February 1, 2009 at 7:15 PM
Wow, I didn’t know that Turkey was selling weapons to Israel in the billions of dollars, and those weapons are known to be used in killing Muslims. Maybe it was Erdogan’s guilt that forced him to say it…
to which he replied pointing to his heart, “My imān forced me to say it.”
Amad
February 1, 2009 at 7:39 PM
subhanAllah, how about a little benefit of doubt and appreciation… we cannot always get the full package, so let’s be thankful for what we get. Because surely it isn’t because our Ummah deserves it.
As Abu Eesa wrote in his comment:
Ali Colak
March 29, 2010 at 9:57 AM
I know this post was a year ago, but for future reference. Turkey doesn’t sell Israel weapons, it bys Israely weapons.
Abd- Allah
February 1, 2009 at 8:19 PM
“we cannot always get the full package, so let’s be thankful for what we get. Because surely it isn’t because our Ummah deserves it.”
Brother Amad, you are right we can not always get the full package and we should be thankful, but just because our Ummah doesn’t deserve it doesn’t mean we can’t ask for it. No one deserves Jannah but yet we all ask for it every day, right. However, just because we criticize some Muslim leaders for their policies does not mean they are not Muslims anymore. No one doesn’t have any shortcomings and mistakes, but the politicians by choosing to run for these leadership positions put themselves under the magnifier and thus become exposed to criticism.
One thing is true that remaining balanced when it comes to politics is not easy, and many of us go to an extreme of either declaring the politician or leader a kafir for doing a mistake, or of holding him in such a high position that we think he is infallible and so we start defending or denying his mistakes.
Shahbaaz
February 2, 2009 at 6:27 AM
Assalamualaikum
If only Hugo chavez was a Muslim…
Venezuela would be an axis of evil by now.
Turkey joined after Venezuela and Bolivia for the walkOut and have the Arab states no shame?
BTW this is an accidental (really?) TV clip where Israel almost confirmed to attack Iran within next year.
Siraaj Muhammad
February 2, 2009 at 2:36 PM
Abd’Allah, my point about Ahmedinejad is not about his record with his own people or how he runs his state, but rather, the way he deals with the United States, meaning, he doesnt allow them to push him around. He calls their bluff every time. If enough Muslim leaders did the same, they would find that united, they have more than enough economic and political resources to bend the will of the West in its favor, but they’re goal is not society’s benefit, but their own, hence they always will cluck after the one’s putting them in power, the West, rather than stand straight and firm.
Siraaj
Intelect1430
February 3, 2009 at 12:32 AM
I agree with Siraaj,
Abd Allah, your “Sunni” card in this discussion is is “out of context” . Siraaj is talking about “Leadership”, and if you re-read your own post you have confirmed how a Shia Leader is taking care of “shias” in his “shiaee country” can you show me one “Sunni” current Leader who is standing up for “sunnies” ?
Abd- Allah
February 3, 2009 at 7:26 PM
Intelect1430, your “shia” card is out of context. If you haven’t noticed, this whole website is called MUSLIM matters, and if Ahmedinejad wants himself to be considered as a Muslim leader, then he should act like a leader for ALL muslims and not just the “shias” as you put it yourself and have no problem with agreeing that the Iranian government is only taking care of the “shias”. But in all cases, no one is asking Ahmedinejad to take care of Sunnis, just leave them be! Instead of opressing them, why aren’t they just left to deal with their own issues. This is not an issue of sunni-shia conflict, it is a matter of a government that is opressing its own people!
And just because the rest of the leaders are corrupt, it doesn’t make Ahmedinejad any better than them! He is just as corrupt, if not more, than the rest of them. Talk is cheap, and all Ahmedinejad seems to do is talk. The media quotes him all the time as threatening to attack Israel, but he has never done anything at all except talk. He probably is just a puppet for the Israelis… but he is a good actor if he has that many people fooled.
Pasha
February 23, 2009 at 3:39 AM
Excellent renglish translation in subtitles, Highly recommended:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6NMmHqSUzk
Andrea Levin
July 27, 2010 at 12:02 PM
I think the PM of Turkey is doing a huge mistake.
People are going to remember him getting closer to Iran and further away from the west (Israel included).
The people of Israel and the people of Turkey always had such a good relationship and it’s a shame that ErdoÄŸan is happily destroying good faith for his narrow interests.
Sayf
July 27, 2010 at 1:21 PM
Hi Andrea, I think you should check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6KLFrye9Xk
Every coin has two sides.