Mona Eltahawy, MuslimMatters Blogger Hebah Ahmed debate Obama’s Decision on Death Photos of Osama bin Laden Amad S May 5, 2011 100 Comments Well, it was more like a discussion than debate. Interestingly, Sr. Hebah was EVERY BIT there. She was part of the conversation. She did not disappear, otherwise Mona would be engaging a ghost. I hope with every interaction such as this, our very eloquent sister Mona, comes to terms with her differences with other Muslims on a variety of topics, starting with the niqab. It's okay to agree to disagree. Comments are open, but all comments will go through moderation. Only those get through that pass a very stringent test: No praise of OBL or any terrorist for that matter No external links Stay on the topic of the debate (like content, style, etc.) No discussion of other MM posts on the topic (like your thoughts on YQ's post) No wild conspiracy theories (it's okay to be speculative, but not to be nutty) No personal attacks or drive-by “shootings” No condescending remarks The list above is not comprehensive. And it is up to the discretion of the many editors to approve or reject comments. Thanks for your cooperation! 100 Responses Amad May 5, 2011 Mona did a good job this time too… GREAT JOB AGAIN Hebah. Just one (significant) issue i have with what u said.. u mentioned that u were distressed the “muslims who celebrated” 911… this is a big urban legend that is used by the Israel lobby (the image was from Palestine) because it alludes that there was massive celebrations by Muslims Rather, its important to point out that only a handful of muslims did so… Just like handful of Christians celebrate abortion killing or handful of Jews celebrate murders of Palestinians, we dont want to reinforce an urban legend of massive, worldwide celebrations, which has been a focal point of islamophobia narrative… IN fact, interestingly, on AIPAC’s homepage you have a story of 25 (twenty five) Gaza people paying tribute to OBL. 25 out of millions of Gazans. Another attempt to paint the Palestinian struggle as a Qaida initiative. Hafiza Khatun May 5, 2011 I completely agree with sister Hebah about the reaction of ordinary muslims on destruction of twin tower tragedy. Because during that time i was in India and i talked to ordinary people and found astonished that ordinary peace loving people who in other instances will sudder seeing blood, was rejoicing. Their view was based on the US foreign policy specialy in the middle east. So in times we loose our humanity and morality and we accept and rejoice collateral damage when “other” suffers – i find no difference between muslim street and western world in this respect. Though i do not support their reaction but i understand why this kind of reaction is coming as i understand why it is coming from the hallowed ground of ground zeron on the news of death of Bin Laden. We have to accept the fact of life and go forward to build the bridge between people as sister Hebah propagates. We should stop all this rhetoric of jew lobby and conspiracy theory- it does not help muslims in any ways. We are so much attuned to blame others specially on jews that even when muslims have fever that also is a Jew conspiracy. Please stop this rhetoric and do some positive and useful work on the ground to help muslim and others. No blame game please. Show courage to accept the fault of ours and not always pointing fingers to others for our own faults. Hebah Ahmed May 5, 2011 Jazak Allahu Khair Br. Amad. Your point is well taken and I should have said “alleged handful of Muslims celebrating 911”. That being said, unfortunatetly the majority of Americans do think it happened and it was important for me to show that it is something distasteful in Islam without getting into debunking myths in such a short amount of time. The primary audience for this interview was Non-Muslims and although I know Muslims would have wanted me to get into foreign policy, the legality of the attack, the discrepancy of the treatment of the body, and the suffering of the Muslims in general, I don’t think this was the time to do it. Considering the way I dress, I need to debunk stereotypes and gain credibility and acceptance as an American first before I starting criticizing America’s policies. Allah knows best. Carlos May 6, 2011 Wise decision, Sister Hebah. Criticising American foreign policy is okay, but it should not be done as a change of subject. For example, when discussing OBL, turning the discussion to a critique of US foreign policy gives the appearance of sympathizing with, defending or justifying the tactics of OBL and his followers. To agree with American policy on one matter, such as the evils of terrorism, is not the same thing as agreeing with American policy on everything, such as America’s strange urge to try to police the entire world. amad May 6, 2011 I agree it would have been a mistake to try to refute it. Just needed a qualifier or two . Sabeen Mansoori May 5, 2011 Well said both Mona and Hebah. I agree with Sis. Hebah that the release of the photographs will in no way quell the conspiracy theories. We need closure and the photographs will merely fan the flames of hatred and put more people in harms way. Azhar May 5, 2011 Why are there 3 different narratives about what actually happened? He was armed, not armed, used wife as human shield did not use, he fought back did not. Photos might answer some of those questions. Hope that asking those questions does not make MM moderators angry and label me a nut. Amad May 5, 2011 The narratives display a lack of PR planning for probably the single most imp event by the White House. Obama/team actually saw the live video of the happenings, so how could you screw it up so badly? It is clear to most that OBL was shot dead not in self-defense. It is quite apparent that the orders were to kill. Who wants to deal with an alive Osama?! Imagine that spectacle. It has also become clear that his wife was not a human-shield. I think the White House calculation was that the news of his killing would be so big that all procedural issues would be a back-page story. And I think their calculation proved right. Long-term, this will a big question-mark in what would otherwise have made Obama look like a genius. Farhan May 5, 2011 Good job Sr Hebah and Sr Mona! May Allah bless you both! N May 6, 2011 Who would have wanted to deal with an alive Osama? How about carrying out justice..proving in a court that he’s responsible for 9/11 and then figuring out his punishment. Khadeejah I. May 5, 2011 I agree with both Sr. Mona and Sr. Hebah. Both make sense in their own ways. I personally do not have any issues about the photos. But I do feel that OBL should have been captured alive and put on trial. If he was proven guilty (which naturally he would have been, for promoting a violent ideology), then he should have been put into prison (perhaps Guantanamo Bay) and he should have been there to see the catastrophe that he has brought upon people of all faiths. That way, at least his followers would not call him a “martyr.” In addition, the sea burial was too hasty, and that’s what triggered most of the conspiracy theories. There should have been a proper post-mortem as required by the law. Moreover, the timing of this operation also raised questions — right before re-election. Many reporters have called it a “good career move.” Just to clarify that conspiracy theories or skepticism is not prevalent in the Islamic community only, but also among people of all faiths and nationalities. For instance, Indian celebs tweeted: Filmmaker Shekhar Kapur wrote, “Osama became the mythical dark force that the US rallied against. It no longer matters that he is/was dead or alive. Surely US would have wanted Osama alive not dead. Something wrong. Hope Indian Govt gets Dawood alive. If they have nothing 2 hide.” Rahul Bose tweeted: “Am hoping a sense of balance is maintained in the US at the Osama news. Closure is good, revenge isn’t.” Ameesha Patel couldn’t believe the news. “Hope the news is true about Osama being dead. and it isn’t an impostor,” she wrote. Dino Morea felt Osama is still alive. “Hello Tweeps, strange feeling Osama still lurking somewhere, and planning something bigger,” he updated. I particularly liked the point that Sr. Mona raised about 9/11 and OBL’s violent ideology “making the lives of Muslims hell.” We have lost 3,000 Americans, we have seen the onslaught of Islamophobia and disastrous wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we have seen the torture practices in detention centres like Guantanamo Bay. All of these go back to 9/11 and OBL’s violent ideology. It is indeed a relief that we don’t have to see videos of OBL’s ideology — a new faith altogether, which is nowhere close to Islam. I agree with Sr. Mona and Sr. Heba about their dismay at celebrations. Not only was it disrespectful to those who lost their lives, but it is also risky for the American soldiers in Afghanistan due to a probable revenge from OBL’s followers (like someone mentioned in BBC World Have Your Say). It may ignite violence as well as fierce nationalistic attitude. Most importantly, we need to watch out for the impact of OBL’s death. Will it reduce Islamophobia? Will it bring about a positive change in America’s foreign policy? Will it mean that wars in Afghanistan and Iraq will finally come to an end? Will it mean that Guantanamo Bay will be closed for unfair torture practices? Will the people wrongly accused be finally cleared of false blames? I have mixed reactions to the whole incident. May Allah bring about all that is good from this incident (OBL’s death). Ameen. Muslim May 6, 2011 Salaam, I think with the photo, it is important not to show it and the Obama administration made a good decision not to show it. (Hopefully they still won’t) The previous administration did the world a disservice by showing the hanging of Sadam Hussein on television. You don’t just kill a nation’s leader (no matter how corrupt) and parade the photos or his head down the street. Same goes for OBL, who wasn’t a leader of a nation, but had some extreme supporters around the world ready to do crazy things. A major super power like the US should not go around showing pictures of people they kill or assasinate. It is kind of the same thing as lunatics taking “justice” into their own hands and beheading journalists and the like and putting their videos online for the world to see. There is already too much tension in the world. midatlantic May 5, 2011 The Arab Spring changed my views of Mona Eltahawy completely. She still drives me up the wall when she talks about Islam, but as a Muslim political commentator, she is brilliant: passionate, articulate, and unafraid. Likewise, Hebah did a fantastic job in her interview on niqab, but was a bit soft and defensive here. Her mention of the tiny number of Muslims celebrating 9/11 was unfortunate and a call for the end of the wars should not have been passed up. Horses for courses as they say. If everyone stuck to their area of expertise, Muslim public discourse would be so much stronger. Abdullah's Father May 5, 2011 Inna lillahi wa Inna Ilayhi rajioon. I wondered no one said this one mark of respect any Muslim deserves, no matter how much khawarij mentality they have shown. may be there was some hikmah in it and may Allah protect our shuyookh and du’aat who are in more difficult situations in these scenarios. Great job both of you sisters. mashallah. It did not feel like debate as such because both sides were essentially siding same point so that anchor felt obliged to disagree with both of them in the end. may Allah increase in good to both of the Muslim presenter. I am glad the participants did not fall for ‘debate’ for the sake of it and chose the opposite views just because it was titled a debate, alhamdulillah they held their ground that its not necessary to release the pictures, if indeed it happened, its more harmful than good. Allahu ‘alam. If my memory serves me correct, remember media showing the video footage of Palestinian Muslim celebrating when Saddam sent some scud missile package to the ‘only middle east democracy’ during first gulf war as if they are celebrating for 9/11. Such hoax by media to continue to project anything Islam/Muslim only only in bad spirit was very distastefully dishonest. I am not aware of Muslim rejoicing for cruel 9/11 that event publically. In a way its great that people who are very articulate Muslims should be given the job for PR jobs. No disrespect intended, but may be MM should identify/train the individuals being represented on such a huge level to be more articulate, laconic but I do understand that this is the best thing that could have happened with the available resources with MM. Thanks. Thank you for the opportunity to comment I hope I was not off topic by much. wassalamualaikum wade May 5, 2011 i agree..people talk about him as if he isn’t muslim. Iesa Galloway May 5, 2011 For anyone who has not seen Mona at J-Street she was very well spoken regarding the Egyptian revolution Muslimah May 5, 2011 GREAT JOB SISTERS!!! TAKBEER!!! As for me, though, I think there’s something fishy about dropping Osama Bin Laden’s body in the sea. Amad May 5, 2011 As for me, though, I think thereâ€™s something fishy about dropping Osama Bin Ladenâ€™s body in the sea. good one lol Aly May 5, 2011 Fishy indeed…. Aisha Ali May 5, 2011 so fishy, it actually stinks! now Osama rests in the sea. Next time there’s a tsunami in America, guess who gets blamed? Iesa Galloway May 5, 2011 Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon. The predictions are for a very active Hurricane season… think they’ll name one Osama? Muslimaa May 7, 2011 yeah buried at sea indeed…. I heard the guy died of kidney failure /sepsis long time ago due to lack of dialysis. Osama was dead to me long time ago. lightning May 5, 2011 I am not from North America, and I can see v clearly the mindset in North America is way different from that in my country, Pakistan. Although a majority of Muslims, and that includes me too, do not agree with Osama and his policies, there are a significant number of Muslims in Pakistan as well as in other parts of the world who actually do support Osama, call him a ‘shaheed’ and wish to embrace Jehad. Osama’s legacy will extend far beyond his death. Sad, but true…. Aly May 5, 2011 Dear Lightning Being from (and currently residing in) Pakistan and having studied in the United States, I can vouch for the fact that mindsets differ between the two places. You say that there are a significant number of Muslims in Pakistan who actually do support Osama. It is indeed not a fringe element of society that supports the views of Osama but I would say that anyone who has gone through: 1) the terror of hearing of a bomb blast and wondering if his loved ones are safe, 2) the anguish, the pain and the hurt of losing a loved one in this senseless targeting of Muslims, or 3) the suffering of the international consequences of Pakistan being looked at as a safe haven for terrorists will recant their support for Osama “the mujahid” and question why the majority who died in his “jihad” were innocent muslims. I am not a scholar, but I can say with conviction that Islam does not allow for the killing of your own brethren in protest against the actions of an imperial force. May Allah guide us all to what is right. -Aly Yusuf May 5, 2011 It is sad how the Washington admin is now torturing the average man/woman in the street with confused information and retractions. Who ever saw an “Islamic burial” by being deliberately thrown into sea? Amad May 5, 2011 The “sea-burial” was really unfortunate… but I dont doubt that they engaged some Islamic scholar for it. For instance, see Imam Khalid Latif’s opinion. He isn’t some wacky lefty: On the other hand, as scholars of Al-Azhar have said, I strongly disagree with Imam Khalid’s opinion, with all due respect. What it also does is give a reason for OBL’s followers to disrespect the bodies of their enemies as revenge. They could have buried him in the middle of some desert. In any case, his followers would not make a shrine out of him since that would be counter to their ideology as well. S May 5, 2011 Bismillah, Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon, Fishy and Sharky both. The body shouldâ€™ve been recovered, extensively shown and verified independentlyâ€“then buried at an undisclosed location, which is ironically the salafi way of burying bodies. Burying him at â€˜seaâ€™ and telling the public its â€˜Islamic traditionâ€™ makes you wonder what kind of people are making these half thought out decisions. And they were talking about how they didnâ€™t want his grave site to be visited or some crap like that, are these people really that clueless, do they not understand that salafis despise visiting graves and see it as going astray?? In fact revering graves, or grave sites, or locations is one of the main tense points that divide salafis and sufis and have them at each others throatsâ€”how is burying him going to fuel any support for him? Who is they to tell that the body is bound with detonated explosives once put in the water, if at all they threw it in the water. Respecting Islamic rights? Apparently KSA refused to take OBL body. Did the Saudi authorities have the right to refuse to take his body? No they did not. That decision should have been taken by Bin Ladenâ€™s family. Did the Saudi authorities ask his mother, brother, wife/wives, children? But why oh why does the Prime Minister of Hamas have to go and say something stupid and twisted like â€œhe was a holy Muslim warrior and we condemn his killingâ€?? Man they make it impossible to defend the legitimate claims of Palestinians. wonder who their new enemy/excuse for continuing wars is?There is a similar situation with Victor Bout. A russian arms merchant, which the USA had ferried over from Thailand. I donâ€™t know if you follow it, but he too if he goes to trial would be very embarrassing as he knows secrets about how the USA military does itâ€™s dirty work. Like Bin Laden, he too was helping them, at first. wallahu ‘alam. ahlam May 5, 2011 S, It was quite strange what the response of the Prime Minister of Hamas was,really I couldn’t help but express an incredulous smile.That unbelievable. But then again,when I thought about it, they’re Gazans:totally different lives in terms of their surroundings,events,struggles, compared to the also occupied but relatively better,West-Bank,it sort of makes sense that their tone will be more extreme and angry.However, I believe it was a small number of people that cared, as these days they have been campaigning their ”revolution” uniting opposing factions together and ending the split so that finally a Palestinian state can come about.It was so cool watching it on Al-Jazeera when both leaders spoke,especially Mahmoud Abbas who said that when asked by israel to choose israel over hamas for the sake of that ever-so elusive ”peace”, he said they choose their brothers in hamas over israel and that they may differ but they will still remain brothers. Epic!!. And then Khaled Mishael spoke and affirmed he was for peace and then said how everyone should be harsher on israel etc, so there was a lot of frustration in his tone and a bit of like ”hurry up people lets get this business done and over with” compared to Abbas who made a lot of jokes and was light-hearted in his speech. This just reminded me of the difference in how Fathawis and Hamsawis perceive this whole conflict. Carlos May 6, 2011 I, too, was shocked by the Hamas leader’s condemnation of the killing of OBL, calling OBL a holy warrior. Between this and launching rockets indiscriminately into Israeli towns just to provoke Israel, it is easy to believe when some people call Hamas a terrorist organization. Israel will not deal with any government involving Hamas, and now I can see why. Still, if Hamas is part of the leadership “chosen” by the Palestinians, I think Israel, unfortunately, has to sometimes deal with Hamas, whether it wants to or not. Amad May 6, 2011 Carlos, it’s funny how you can understand why Israel will not deal with Hamas based on a rockets that have killed less than a dozen people, versus a state that has killed thousands of Palestinians and committed tons of war-crimes. The charter of Likud is no less vile than the charter of Hamas. Calling OBL a warrior may be an unfortunate and disgusting pandering to its populace, but Israel has done far worse in action, if not in words. Let’s not even go there. be May 6, 2011 btw it is a propaganda well diffused by Israel that hamas refuse to recognize its existence well actually it does recognize its existence but not its legitimacy like Gandhi recognized the existence of Pakistan but not its legitimacy …hamas also recognize Israel from the 1969 borders something that israel never acknowledges and rather banks on the choc of civilizations to justify its murderous actions and ethnic cleansing. Liz May 5, 2011 I am not a Muslim myself, I was directed to the site from one of my Muslim friend’s Twitters, but I was very impressed by both Ms. Eltahawy and Ms. Ahmed’s comments on CNN. Just like 50 years ago the general public was not exposed often to well thought and eloquent discourse from people of color and women, American’s are not exposed and are unused to the idea of devout Muslim women sharing their ideas and being a part of public discourse. I think having women like Eltahawy and Ahmed on major news outlets like CNN are wonderful both for women of all religions and cultures as well as for the image of Muslim’s in America. When given the image of women in veils, most American’s equate this with inequality and a silencing of opinions. I agree with many of Ahmed’s points and have great respect for her both as a fellow educated woman and for her devotion to her faith. This is the kind of thing we need more of. I applaud both women. Hebah Ahmed May 5, 2011 Dear Liz, I welcome you to Muslim Matters and thank you for your kind words. I was honored that CNN asked me to be on the show and allow me to speak about things other than why I cover. Personally, I think the debate about the picture was not a very important thing in the grand scheme of things but the more important aspect of the show was as you stated, breaking stereotypes about Muslim women and seeing us as intelligent and capable. I also felt my main goal was to break the connection because Islamic religiousity and extremism and show my fellow Americans that we are not the “other”. I really appreciate your comments and they encourage me to try to do more, God willing. THANK YOU! Muslimaa May 7, 2011 Well done Hebah, Alhamdullilah Sufi_4_ever May 5, 2011 Assalam alaykom, Well done sister Heba. May Allah reward you. Wassalam, Sufi -Edited. no external links MR May 5, 2011 Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon. ahlam May 5, 2011 Wow, Im just thinking what could his oldest son,the one who went on TV before,feel about his dad being thrown at sea. Its weird,considering how he never wanted to deny or break relations with him and only condemned his actions. Anyway, I still think we should be allowed to see those pictures just as we saw Saddam Hussein’s and his two sons . This would be further verification and would more likely scare present/future terrorists than encourage more. Plus, I am still skeptical considering it took a decade to find him and all along he was in a nice big mansion,lol .subhanAllah. Also, I am quite disgusted a bit to hear people rejoice at death.I mean, as Muslims we are supposed to remember death as if it is going to come any second..so how do we get to rejoice that something or somebody died as if we are not next?The Prophet salal ‘aliahi wasalam stood out of respect for a jewish man’s funeral procession that passed infront of him ,and when asked, he replied ”is it not a soul?”. Amman Abdul Adl May 5, 2011 “The Prophet salal â€˜aliahi wasalam stood out of respect for a jewish manâ€™s funeral procession that passed infront of him ,and when asked, he replied â€is it not a soul?” Is this from an authentic source? If possible could you please tell me from where exactly? Amad May 6, 2011 This is another example from the life of the Prophet (S) that virtually shakes the foundation of the black and white, misunderstood wala wal bara world that many of the extremists and their supporters like to believe in. Narrated Abdur Rahman ibn Abu Laila: Sahl ibn Hunaif and Qais ibn Saâ€™d ibn Ubaidah were in Al-Qadisiyyah when a funeral passed by them, so they stood up and it was said to them: â€œIt is one of the local (Jewish) people.â€ They said: â€œA funeral passed by the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, and he stood up, and it was said to him, â€˜It is a Jew,â€™ so he said, â€˜Is he not a soul?â€™â€ [Sunan An-Nasaâ€™i, Book 21, Number 1922] Ø¹ÙŽØ¨Ù’Ø¯Ù Ø§Ù„Ø±ÙŽÙ‘ØÙ’Ù…ÙŽÙ†Ù Ø¨Ù’Ù†Ù Ø£ÙŽØ¨ÙÙŠ Ù„ÙŽÙŠÙ’Ù„ÙŽÙ‰ Ù‚ÙŽØ§Ù„ÙŽ ÙƒÙŽØ§Ù†ÙŽ Ø³ÙŽÙ‡Ù’Ù„Ù Ø§Ø¨Ù’Ù†Ù ØÙÙ†ÙŽÙŠÙ’ÙÙ ÙˆÙŽÙ‚ÙŽÙŠÙ’Ø³Ù Ø¨Ù’Ù†Ù Ø³ÙŽØ¹Ù’Ø¯Ù Ø¨Ù’Ù†Ù Ø¹ÙØ¨ÙŽØ§Ø¯ÙŽØ©ÙŽ Ø¨ÙØ§Ù„Ù’Ù‚ÙŽØ§Ø¯ÙØ³ÙÙŠÙŽÙ‘Ø©Ù ÙÙŽÙ…ÙØ±ÙŽÙ‘ Ø¹ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙŠÙ’Ù‡ÙÙ…ÙŽØ§ Ø¨ÙØ¬ÙŽÙ†ÙŽØ§Ø²ÙŽØ©Ù ÙÙŽÙ‚ÙŽØ§Ù…ÙŽØ§ ÙÙŽÙ‚ÙÙŠÙ„ÙŽ Ù„ÙŽÙ‡ÙÙ…ÙŽØ§ Ø¥ÙÙ†ÙŽÙ‘Ù‡ÙŽØ§ Ù…ÙÙ†Ù’ Ø£ÙŽÙ‡Ù’Ù„Ù Ø§Ù„Ù’Ø£ÙŽØ±Ù’Ø¶Ù ÙÙŽÙ‚ÙŽØ§Ù„ÙŽØ§ Ù…ÙØ±ÙŽÙ‘ Ø¹ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ‰ Ø±ÙŽØ³ÙÙˆÙ„Ù Ø§Ù„Ù„ÙŽÙ‘Ù‡Ù ØµÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ‘Ù‰ Ø§Ù„Ù„ÙŽÙ‘Ù‡Ù Ø¹ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙŠÙ’Ù‡Ù ÙˆÙŽØ³ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙ‘Ù…ÙŽ Ø¨ÙØ¬ÙŽÙ†ÙŽØ§Ø²ÙŽØ©Ù ÙÙŽÙ‚ÙŽØ§Ù…ÙŽ ÙÙŽÙ‚ÙÙŠÙ„ÙŽ Ù„ÙŽÙ‡Ù Ø¥ÙÙ†ÙŽÙ‘Ù‡Ù ÙŠÙŽÙ‡ÙÙˆØ¯ÙÙŠÙŒÙ‘ ÙÙŽÙ‚ÙŽØ§Ù„ÙŽ Ø£ÙŽÙ„ÙŽÙŠÙ’Ø³ÙŽØªÙ’ Ù†ÙŽÙÙ’Ø³Ù‹Ø§ AnonyMouse May 6, 2011 Errrrr, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that this hadith contradicts the ‘misunderstood’ version of al-walaa’ wa’l baraa’. Basic respect for humanity doesn’t negate the theological understanding/ belief that a Muslim is considered superior (again,theologically) to non-Muslims. Amad May 6, 2011 Excuse me? Do you understand the context of my response? The person was in disbelief that such a hadith would exist because it does contradict many of the jihadists core beliefs of showing no respect to non-Muslims. I don’t know from where you have inferred that we are talking about theological superiority. Would you rather have (a) nice non-Muslim school-teacher, who looks after your house when you are gone as your neighbor or (b) murderous, pedophile, Muslim robber? At whose death would you feel more remorse? A honest Muslim would answer it as (a). There is a point of bringing up this ludicrous comparison. Not everything is black and white. And that’s it on this topic. N May 6, 2011 Br Amad, I find your tone to be a bit disrespectful. Someone can have a different understanding or things than your own. That doesn’t need a response like ‘excuse me’.. I find muslim matters is getting a little extreme about its ‘moderate views’. Amad May 6, 2011 I wasn’t disrespectful, I was annoyed. People need to read other’s comments carefully before jumping to conclusions. And each author is responsible for his/her own comments, pls don’t generalize to the site. Carlos May 6, 2011 Not that I believe in “souls,” but is good to know that the prophet is on record as recognizing the humanity of Jews. To the Muslim brothers and sisters who seem to never have anything even remotely positive to say about Jewish people, please take note of this. Yes, celebrating a death is a disturbing sight, and I am not very comfortable with it either, but try to understand the perspective of those cheering. The death was not of a good man, an average man or even an everyday bad guy, it was the death of an unapologetic mass murderer of innocents. OBL is the most infamous terrorist in history. OBL and his followers picked a fight to the death with an entire country, and made it their life’s goal to try to terrorize, hurt and destroy them. Now America has, against great odds, through hard work, determination, wit, know how and bravery, exacted some long overdue justice, and Americans are rightly proud, happy and relieved. Amad May 6, 2011 To be honest, I wasn’t too surprised or too disturbed about the cheering. Human beings are emotional creatures and it’s tough to not feel happy about the death of someone that your government has made a super-villain out of for a decade. We should remember that this super-villain bit was so overblown and so exaggerated, that people genuinely believed that all attacks around the world were triggered by a guy without phone or internet access (yes, even in Abbottabad)! So, just like any other Marvel comics, when Thor takes care of the bad guy, people will cheer. Pls understand that I am not downplaying the evil of OBL or the pain of the families his terror has caused. But rather how the governments (not just ours) have playing this to their advantage for years, leading to more pain for more families (in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.)- both American military families and civilians on the ground. Also, what was conflicting for me was not the cheering, but that out of those cheering, there are more than a handful few in that crowd that would love the same thing that happened to Osama, to happen to all the Muslims. Some out there weren’t cheering the killing of the man, but another victory in a battle over Islam. Extremists that match extremists on the other side. Amman Abdul Adl May 6, 2011 Brother, i’m not trying to deny this hadith but can you tell me if the hadith is authentic? & “So, just like any other Marvel comics, when Thor takes care of the bad guy, people will cheer.” Nice reference, the movie just came out today.hehe (Just trying to lighten up the mood) Allah Knows Best… AnonyMouse May 7, 2011 I guess we both misunderstood each other (because the q you asked also had nothing to do with what I was referring to). Me May 5, 2011 Inna lilahi wa inna ilayhi raji’oon…. Oh and I don’t believe anything our government tells us.. Carlos May 5, 2011 Unfortunately, I could not view the video, but I read the comments, so I have an idea what Mona and Hebah said. As to the photos of the deceased bin Laden, they will leak out eventually. I agree they should not be displayed as “trophies,” but making something publicly available is not the same thing as displaying a trophy. I have no doubt bin Laden was killed that night. The Administration would never try to commit such an obvious hoax. As for the conspiracy theorists, they will theorize silliness regardless of the evidence presented. As to whether showing the photos will inflame anti-American passions, that may or may not be true, but, I would think that anyone whose passions would be inflamed is no friend of America to begin with, so it would not matter, to them, what we do. As to the burial, I believe the Administration was trying to come up with the best solution. Saudi Arabia would not take the body, and the Administration did not want to seem insensitive to Muslim tradition by holding the body more than a day. A sea burial required no country’s permission, and had the added benefit of not providing any sort of a “shrine” for bin Laden (and, yes, some followers would have visited his shrine). As to whether a burial at sea is respectful: (1) the body is dead, so the body does not care, and (2) the body belonged to a man who does not deserve any more than the most basic human respect, if that. Burial at sea is a lot more dignified than the burial suffered by many of the victims of 9/11. As to the celebrating that seems to bother so many, keep in mind that the person killed was not a good person, or an average person or even just any old bad guy. This was a guy who was personally responsible for leading the killing thousands of innocent American civilians in a horrendous surprise terrorist attack such as the world has never seen. This guy made mass murder of innocents into an international political movement. This guy declared war on Americans, and told us we and our children would not be safe anywhere. That includes my own children. This guy is now dead, and I and many of my countrymen are relieved and happy he is dead. He is dead because our soldiers killed him. Our soldiers killed him despite the fact that he was hiding in a sovereign country that either could not or would not kill or apprehend him, and might have even been aiding and abetting, or at least tolerating his movement. His killing was not revenge so much as it was a people exercising their natural right to protect themselves, their families and their allies from an enemy sworn and planning to hurt and destroy them. It was our right to capture or kill bin Laden, and nobody had the right to stop us. The war against fanatical militant Islamic extremists is not over just because the founder of al Qaeda is dead. Al Qaeda and its network of supporters and allies are still out there, and are still planning indiscriminate death and destruction in what they believe is service to their deity, and in hopes of establishing an extremist worldwide Islamic theocracy. For the sake of the survival of the human race, civilized people of all races and nations must stand united in opposing their efforts. Cartoon M May 5, 2011 I liked this discussion between Sis Hebah and Sis Mona better than the last one. What to do with Osama’s body and whether to release pictures or not is a difficult decision. As long as pictures are not released, (and who knows, people may even question that too) people will question whether it happened or not forever. If the pictures are released, it will cause a much more emotional reaction to those who sympathized with bin Laden. Remember, that there are a decent amount of people who believe that 9-11 was an inside job and that it was not bin Laden that was responsible for it. In the end, I think Prez Obama made the right decision. If the pictures were released, they would be all over the internet and would be a bit excessive in my opinion. muslimah May 6, 2011 With due respect to both the sisters, i think it was sister Mona who had a better point about releasing the pictures. Moreover, please don’t ignore the plight of the Pakistani Muslims. After everything it has cost us, we, the people of my country deserved more respect than what is being shown to us now. The pictures should have been released because the US conducted this operation in a foreign country and without informing them. Naturally we feel much more insecure about all this and the proof of why our territory was invaded does matter a LOT to us. The CIA has been allowed to freely operate in our country and the not to forget the drones that have been going on since 2004!! And very often news of people who are not even ‘alleged militants’ becoming the victim of drones surfaces. And now a sort of a blame game has started, this whole episode has created a lot of insecurity here. Please pray for all the muslims in Pakistan. May Allah protect us. uae_muslimah May 7, 2011 Asalaamu alaikum, I couldn’t wait to watch this! especially after the last debate between them! :D Good job to both sisters…. But I’d have to agree with sister Mona on this one too :) Akh May 6, 2011 We are hearing condemnation for OBL & his associates but when will people like Sh. Yasir address such fatawa from shuyukh that OBL would take from? -Edited. No external links. Amad May 6, 2011 Akh, not sure what you are asking. If you can be more clear, we can ask Sh. Yasir. Akh May 6, 2011 Listen to the fatwa of Sh. ibn Uthaymeen linked. Amad May 6, 2011 No scholar was or is perfect. We take the good, and leave what we don’t find to be consistent with the truth. Just because OBL takes from X, doesn’t make X’s position consistent with his. Major scholars have praised different people at different times. Depending on context, it may be related to certain aspects of the person’s life or whatever. It doesn’t change anything for us. Look at OBL’s own statements and actions– they were not consistent with Islam. And that should be the end of the story for us. I was in Dr. Bilal Phillips khutbah today and he made it similarly simple. Forget about all the conspiracies or all the nuances. Look at the big picture. Is terrorism wrong? Yes. Is killing innocents wrong? Yes. Does anyone who calls for these wrong? Yes. And that’s it. Akh May 6, 2011 I agree with you brother. As we say back home, ‘play the ball not the man’. But, if you listen to the words of the Sheikh, I find it strange that no-one speaks out or clarifies such ayat. Jazaakallaahu khayran. It is good that sisters are getting out there, having a voice & defending Islam. MR May 6, 2011 Doesn’t mean Sh. Uthaymeen supports Al-Qaeda and Usama Bin Laden. Maybe back in the day when America also supported them against Russia. I doubt OBL took from sh. Uthaymeen since if you google Uthaymeen and suicide bombing or takfir you will see that OBL and him differe a lot, but then again on the internet anything can be said, just like this youtube video can be manipulated out of context. Maya May 6, 2011 As Muslims when another Muslim dies we’re supposed to say inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji’uun and Allah yar hamu.. Let’s give him the benefit of doubt, maybe he repented before his death. May Allah guide us all. uae_muslimah May 7, 2011 inna lil laahi wa inna illahi rajioon. well written :) Amad May 6, 2011 Al-Qaeda has confirmed OBL’s death. businessweek.com/news/2011-05-06/qaeda-confirms-bin-laden-s-death-threatens-attack-on-u-s-.html But they are also faasiq… so we still can’t accept the news right?? There will be still many out there who’ll say that the statement is also manufactured. Maybe OBL himself was a fictional character? Bint A May 6, 2011 With all due respect Br. Amad, I was kind of disappointed to read this comment of yours. I believe a person has full right to either accept or reject their claims, but to use the verses of Allah in a way that comes off as mocking the verse, I would advise against. I apologize if I misinterpreted your intentions, but the ayaat of Allah are indisputable haqq and if a person chooses to follow them over a whole lot of fishy doubt then they should be free to do so, without being mocked. W’Allahu A’lam Amad May 7, 2011 I was not mocking the verse, noudhubilah. It is the conspiracy theorist nuts who mock the verse and use it to their advantage when they want to accept news and when they don’t. A person has a full right to do whatever he wants, but STOP using textual evidences without proper context, to help your inconsistent position. If you just read the verse as-is and do your own interpretation, then it will present a big challenge for you as you will pretty much stop believing anything happening. Inshalah, ibnabeeomar is working with our shayookh to provide a thorough explanation of the verse. Carlos May 7, 2011 Please be careful not to appear to be questioning indisputable verses, Br. Amad. ;-) Amad May 7, 2011 The verses are indeed indisputably from the Creator. But the interpretations are not. UmmSarah May 6, 2011 Things are never as they appear in politics of any country. Depending on the masses, some governments are sly like US, and some not so much like Pakistan (they are just upfront thugs running the show) Muslim May 6, 2011 Question: Will the death of OBL finally signal the reduction or end of US drone attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan? Answer: Friday, May 6th, a US Drone attacks kills about 12 people in Pakistan increasing tensions between Islamabad and DC. umm hamza May 7, 2011 the best route to take when one has no verified and aunthentic information about someting is to say i dont know! since all our info is media based it would serve everyone well to just leave it at that. Amad May 7, 2011 If we adopt that approach, then we might as well live clueless. IN any case, the death of OBL has now been reported by all sorts of outlets, including Al-Qaeda. If that’s not believable, then I am not sure what else could be. Random May 7, 2011 To continue on with this decision… I believe that the photos should be released because the politicians have lied to us before regarding 9/11 (Google/Youtube ‘Truth 9 about 11’ to judge for yourself) and its just easy for them to lie again. If they released the photos then they will gain the trust of more people including the ones they call ‘conspirac-ists’. Wallahu Alam Carlos May 7, 2011 Random, first, I think you found the wrong website. This is not a conspiracy theory website, this is a website for serious discussions (about Muslim matters). Second, conspiracy theorists will never accept any evidence they find inconvenient to their worldview, regardless of what photos or other evidence they are presented. Conspiracy theorists believe in conspiracy theories because the really WANT to believe in conspiracy theories. Unfortunately, they do a great disservice to humanity by confusing the young and the gullible. Third, yes, politicians often lie, but that does not mean one should start making-up random conspiracy theories rather than examining evidence and using logic and common sense. Fourth, anyone can post a Youtube video, and it is advisable to get one’s information from more sources than Youtube videos. Abu Seif May 7, 2011 The Mashayikh of Ahlus-Sunnah do not reside in America, walhamdulillah. This is an important point that needs to be understood. Aly Balagamwala May 7, 2011 Dear Abu Seif I am not sure what you mean by that. Do you mean to say that the Mashayikh who reside in America are not from the Ahlus-Sunnah Wa Al-Jamah? -Aly Aly Balagamwala May 7, 2011 There is much confusion within all of us on how we treat the death of OBL (or any muslim whose understanding differed from our own). It is more apparent really in OBL, as he was considered a hero by some and a villian by some. I, as a resident of Pakistan, could never respect the views of OBL and others that support that type of views. Blowing up innocent muslims (or non-muslims for that matter) is not Halal in my book. No matter who did what, where. I do however, consider that OBL was a Muslim, who believed in Allah (SWT), His Messenger (SAW), and the last day. Thus, he will eventually stand in front of Allah (SWT) and be held accountable for his actions. ANd I know the many that died as “collateral damage” from his actions will stand up that Day and question why they had to suffer for his interpretation. May Allah (SWT) have mercy on OBL and all of us on that Day. I know for a fact that OBL or no OBL, the policies of the US will not change, nor will Palestine be liberated. I also know that the Pakistani government will not develop cojones overnight and stop the drone attacks or any other misuse of the soveriegnity of Pakistan’s soil. Post OBL, I am still going to be stopped for those “random” SSSS checks at the airport, there will still be a danger of a bomb exploding near a loved one in Karachi, there will still be fear of seeing a bearded gu in a Kurta Shalwar on your plane, etc etc. Post OBL, life will remain the same. -Aly Carlos May 7, 2011 By “misuse of the sovereignty of Pakistan’s soil,” you could just as easily be referring to the Taliban’s and al Qaeda’s violations of Pakistan’s sovereignty. Those two organizations use Pakistan’s soil as their base of operations. The fact that it took a U.S. commando raid to kill OBL when he was living for years in a million dollar compound about a kilometer from Pakistan’s premier military academy proves that there is something very wrong with Pakistan’s government. I think it very possible that, if the U.S. had, instead, informed the Pakistani government that OBL was hiding in that compound, the news would have reported that Pakistani security forces raided a house where OBL was suspected to be living, and found only women and children. The CIA is not dumb. Pakistan does not even appear to have sovereignty or control over the northwestern frontier of its territory. There is a power vacuum in large parts of Pakistan. Guerrilla armies thrive in power vacuums (see, for example, Afghanistan, Somalia, Colombia, Lebanon, Georgia, Nepal (until recently), Chechnya, Iraq, Sri Lanka (until recently), The Phillipines, Thailand, etc.). The U.S. is taking action in Pakistan because the Pakistani government either can not or will not take decisive action against the common enemies. I don’t know if it is because the Pakistani government lacks cojones, or lacks cerebros, or if it is because, as many intelligent commentators suspect, elements of the Pakistani government actually support or tolerate the activities of al Qaeda and the Taliban. Maybe Pakistanis are just caught in the middle, and are playing both sides, not wanting to commit to one side and risk winding-up on the side of the loser? I don’t know. Either way, the U.S. has a determined and dangerous enemy using Pakistani soil to hide and to plan attacks. The U.S. has the right to go to where its enemy is, and to attack its enemy before its enemy can attack it. I would think the Pakistani people would support the assistance they obviously need. If the Pakistani army cannot or will not drive down their sovereign highway, surround a terrorist compound and arrest or kill the enemy combatants, U.S. drone strikes might be the best way to take out these terrorists. Until Pakistan’s people deal with their own problems, you are right . . . Post OBL, life will remain the same. sebkha May 7, 2011 So the best and appropriate answer to terrorists’ misuse of Pakistan’s sovereignty is to do the same? “Everyone else is doing it so why can’t we” is a terrible precedent to follow. Can you imagine if the Mexican government sent commandos in helicopters into Texas to execute a drug lord, took out a couple civilians in the house in the process, and then removed the body and dumped it in the Gulf of Mexico while mumbling some nonsense about providing a “Catholic” burial, all without telling a soul in American law enforcement or government what they were doing? Do you think the US response would be to just shrug their shoulders because, really, who bloody cares what happens to a drug lord, no one likes them anyways? Like, it’s totally ok to ignore any country’s sovereignty and just steal onto someone’s private property in the middle of the night and shoot unarmed old men standing around their bedrooms in their pajamas, because said old man was a really icky person. But only when they’re icky people no one likes, right? You think it will stop there though? You’re ready to give your government carte blanche to do this kind of thing whenever they feel it’s positively necessary, and will just take them at their word for it? That’s utterly terrifying. sebkha May 7, 2011 Additionally, there are few things that gross me out more than the pathological claim of American “otherness” that everyone else in the world must be subdued to, upon pain of death. Like, if you can’t get on board with the idea that other people in the world are as disposable as toilet paper, then somehow you are some huge, looming threat to the US. Mass murdering drone strikes courtesy of the USA are as wretched and disgusting as any heinous act of terrorism any Pakistanis could perpetrate. Unless you’re some kind of nutball jingoist, it’s still a bad thing when thousands of civilians get taken out with drone strikes, even when they’re brown people with unpronounceable names from cities you couldn’t find on a map. No one has the right to put tens of thousands of other countries’ civilians through a meat grinder because some of the people there put 3000 Americans through one. That’s not winning anything. Carlos May 8, 2011 Which is it, Sebkha, “thousands of civilians” or “tens of thousands of other countries’ civilians?” In the space of two sentences, your estimate of the number of innocent civilian deaths from drone attacks jumped tenfold. How sure are you of your figures? As far as Mexico sending commandos into the US, there is no need. American law enforcement can and does handle its own drug kingpins and domestic extremists without the help of foreign countries. Look up, for example, “Waco,” “Ruby Ridge,” “Timothy McVeigh” and “Eric Rudolph.” The US does not have any ungoverned “frontier province” that terrorist groups use as a home base to attack other countries. Actually, Mexico is very much in need of US assistance to handle its own war against ultra-violent drug cartels that keep even Mexican police in a state of terror. OBL was not just an icky old unarmed man in pajamas. He was the founder and leader of the world’s most well-organized international terror organization. Materials confiscated in the compound show that he was planning terrorist attacks against American rail networks, scheduled for the tenth anniversary of 9/11, later this year. And believe me, OBL and everyone in his compound was armed. Every video he has ever been in shows a machine gun sitting behind him. The only innocent civilians in OBL’s compound were the children, and, in case you did not notice, the SEALs spared the childrens’ lives. Hopefully those children will choose a life of productivity rather than terror. Brown people with unpronouncable names? I’m “brown.” My wife’s brown. I still can’t pronounce my wife’s name. President Barack Hussein Obama is brown, and his name is kind of hard to pronounce. America is far more racially, ethnically and religiously heterogenous than, say, Pakistan. You really think Americans are fighting this war against militant Islamic extremists because they are racist? You think Americans, in general, consider foreign people to be as disposable as toilet paper? Maybe a tiny handful do, but I assure you such sentiment is limited to the absolute fringes of American society. Cities I can’t find on a map? By the time I was in sixth grade, I knew the name, flag, location and capital of every country in the world, not to mention plenty of other interesting facts about each country. My education consisted of more than just memorizing ancient religious books. The wars in which the US is now involved are not to avenge the deaths of 3,000 Americans who died on 9/11/01. It is about trying to make the world a safer place for Americans and all humanity. The US government is not perfect, but it is a far cry better than almost any other government on this otherwise anarchic planet. I don’t agree with everything my government does, and neither do most Americans. For example, I still do not know why we got involved in Libya’s civil war. Almost no American wants to be responsible for the deaths of innocent civilians anywhere. Drone strikes have far less collateral damage than, say, carpet bombing. Perhaps if Pakistan’s government and populace would stop tolerating al Qaeda and the Taliban using Pakistani soil to organize international terror operations, drone strikes would not be necessary. Sameer, regarding your “search warrants” suggestion, this is national defense, not a criminal investigation. sebkha May 8, 2011 The numbers “change” because I was talking about two different things. The numbers of those killed in drone strikes number in the thousands. The numbers for the nearly 10 year long meat grinder of air strikes, drone strikes and all other modes of death and destruction the US has perpetrated on the Af-Pak area are well into the tens of thousands, if not higher. The meat grinder goes well beyond drones. Which is what i segued the last part of my comment into-the bigger picture of carnage that has been inflicted on other countries, far, far away from here. But thanks for dumbing things down with silly pedantics. Seriously, are you completely oblivious that tens of thousands of people, huge proportions of them innocent civilians, have been killed there? There’s no need for Mexico to send in their own commandos, secretly? No need? Border towns are covered in blood. Over 15,000 people were slaughtered in Mexican drug violence, just in 2010. Rival cartels have been hanging each other from bridges, dumping bags with 12 decapitated heads inside, and all kinds of other sick, crazy violence is constantly leaking over on to the US side. It’s indisputable fact that there are drug lords holed up in the United States, and the US remains a destination point for those drugs to be sold and distributed, despite the billions of $ spent supposedly fighting the drug war. For all the vigilance you claim exists on the part of the US, an awfully big bloodbath is growing exponentially every year. There’s no doubt that Mexico could make a valid case for taking out anyone they deem a big threat, regardless of US sovereignty. But the shriek and howl that would erupt from the US over someone doing the same kind of garbage they think they can get away with anywhere they want would never end. Heads would roll. But everyone else in the world is just supposed to sit and take it. Because we’re the big, bad, USA, and no one else matters in the same way that we do. American exceptionalism, blah blah blah. It’s garbage. It’s nonsense. It needs to stop NOW. The narrative of who was armed and who wasn’t in OBL’s dumpy, moldy old compound has been in a state of flux since the story came out. The most recent narrative has stated that there were a couple men armed, and neither were OBL. Multiple sources have stated so, regardless of your inaccurate statements to the contrary. Videos made who knows when, showing machine guns in the background have nothing to do with anything last Sunday. But that’s beside the point. Pakistan continues to deny they knew he was there. They deny they would have tipped anyone there off. Every other “high ranking” or whatever terrorist that’s been captured there prior were captured because Pakistani intelligence got them. They didn’t tip any of them off. Their intelligence failures allowed OBL to live in some dumpy old compound undetected for a few years. Our last big intelligence fail led to the US invading another sovereign country over non-existent WMDs, leading to the deaths of at least 100.000, probably more. Who has the bigger fail lately? Af-Pak has been a civilian bloodbath from the beginning. It’s been well-documented. Going on 10 years of it, the US has displayed an amazing amount of tolerance for said bloodbath. It barely registers a blip of interest. Never has, and probably never will. Decapitated Afghan or Pakistani toddlers killed by drone or air strikes register less interest here than dog-fighting rings, or an abused and neglected cat. Michael Vick has been more thoroughly demonized in this country than the US soldiers that killed Afghan civilians just for kicks and collected some of their body parts as trophies. I don’t care how much you know about geography, or what your skin color is. The fact remains that a huge swath of this country continues to tolerate the intolerable. Collectively, this country is as tolerant of violence against civilians as any of the people it accuses of “not valuing human life”. It’s sick and demented, and I can only pray that the pathological sense of American “otherness” that is so prevalent ends soon. There are people here who are against it, and people that stand up against it, but it’s not been enough yet. But as long as there are people like Carlos saying demented things like “It is about trying to make the world a safer place for Americans and all humanity.” it’s evident there’s a lot of work to be done. As long as there are people who continue to maintain that the US needs to keep slaughtering masses of civilians in order to “protect” them, it won’t end though. Sameer May 7, 2011 Carlos, Pakistan had already arrested a lot of Al-Qaeeda leader, and now you are saying had it known, it would leaked the infromation to OBL. Why it didn’t in the case of other senior Al Qaeeda leader or sernior Talliban leader? Pakistan is just the scapegoat and there is tendency in US to blame its own failure on Pakistan. As for drone attack, it has killed a lot of civilian people and unnamed suspected militant, and I do not why people tend to defend drone attack. Recently drone attack killed 40 people. Just a while a CIA operative killed two people in Pakistan. Since Pakistan has not officially permitted US to go inside Pakistan, US does not have a right to go inside. If I am correct, does not police in US require a search warrant to go inside someone house Coorled38 May 7, 2011 I was in the middle east when 9/11 occurred…while there were not thousands celebrating that trajedy…there were more than “just a handful”…and they were not Palestinians. Im curious if whether osama had been taken into custody…held somewhere pending a trial if his extreme die hard “fans” around the world (particularly in Pakistan) would have planted bombs or some such thing to secure his release? Osama in prison would have given terrorist an excuse (as if they need one) to go on a tear in order to force his release…at least try. It is possible the president considered this..and decided a dead Osama was the better option. Personally speaking…burial at sea (or any discussion about HOW a body is buried) is rather down there on the list of things to be “disturbed” about or possibly offended by….what we do in life should be the focus of our disturbed and offended reactions….once we are dead…our body is food for the fishies…so to speak. I cannot understand why HOW he was buried is even relevant compared to how he lived his life and the acts he engaged in…but then that’s jus my opinion. Amad May 7, 2011 Do you have any evidence for your first statement about celebrations? Can you provide a location? The Middle East is highly controlled in terms of any demonstrations. I have lived about half my life in the Middle East too, and knew many friends who were also in the ME on 9/11. And there were no celebrations that I have information on. Were there such, you would have found pictures of them plastered all over AIPAC’s site. Even if you saw something, you are still admitting it wasn’t thousands. So that would count as handful relatively speaking. We are just playing with semantics here. As for burial, that’s an important Islamic matter. Regardless of how much of a criminal a man is, regardless of his religion, he deserves a burial that is consistent with his beliefs. All human rights conventions preserve that right. We keep saying injustice cannot be used to fight injustice. The same applies here to. P.S. Your suggestion about a prison break reflects paranoia imho, and very little trust in America’s security and justice system. I cannot imagine that the greatest power in the world could not keep a prisoner in jail. This isn’t Hannibal, and this isn’t a movie. Coorled38 May 7, 2011 I did not mention that these celebrations occurred in the streets in some form of mass rally…just that there were celebrations. It was in Bahrain to clarify. I happened to be in the house of some long time Bahraini friends while the towers came down….I was not only horrified to see that particular tragedy take place…but was even more horrified to watch these people (men, women, and their teen kids) clap and whistle and take joy in the death of others. This is MY personal experience but I know of many others in Bahrain that also had similar stories. As I said…not thousands but it did happen. And I also did not mention breaking him out of jail…I said his followers COULD plant bombs or do something equally terrorizing to force his release. You didnt even try to read with comprehension from what I gather from your comment. i still think the burial is a nonissue…Muslims believe a body is just a body once it is dead…why focus on how he was buried…how does that in any way reflect on the life he lead…or what happens to him now…spiritually speaking? Aisha Ali May 7, 2011 That is silly! I was in Saudi Arabia when the 9/11 tragedy happened and there were no “celebrations”. People were shocked and scared infact about its consequences on their own lives! be May 7, 2011 r you horrified when human being other than Americans are killed? like the millions who died since 9-11? Many Americans are openly proud and happy when Muslims and Middle eastern are killed…. Why only focusing on some Middle Easterns? Some people were happy in France (I am French) and feel that the US brought it to itself … When we will all feel heartbroken and outraged over the death of innocents no matter what nationality or religion; only then will we truly embrace our humanity… sebkha May 7, 2011 She’s not talking about a prison break. She’s talking about bombs being placed in civilian areas with the threat of mass slaughtering of civilians to pressure governments to release captured prisoners. Another possibility is mass kidnappings, the way FARC does it down in Colombia. They kidnap government officials, innocent civilians, etc, to pressure those governments into releasing captured FARC leaders and other operatives. They’ve kidnapped and murdered enough people that even the French government has pressured the Colombian government to carry out these prisoner exchanges, to get it to stop. No one would get very far in trying to pressure anyone into releasing UBL, but a whole lot of death and destruction could be wrought under those premises. It’s not unprecedented, by any means. ahlam May 7, 2011 Come one… where was the party at? I lived in the middeleast and was born and bred there and watched the incident on the news specifically on Al Jazeera Arabic..and no…there weren’t any crazy street celebrations. Everyone was shocked.You speak as if EVERYONE in the MiddleEast were sitting waiting for it to happen or are sick when you don’t mention who or where eactly. Im sorry but slandering a whole region and painting them all as evil is just as ugly.Be specific about the *area* (not country even) , that you were in. Coorled38 May 7, 2011 Im assuming your directing this comment to me. Once again I reiterate, your not reading with comprehension. Nowhere in my comment did I say there were “crazy street celebrations”….nor did I say EVERYONE in the middle east celebrated. Seriously…did you even read all the way through my comment. I did not slander a whole region…I merely stated my personal experience…for heavens sake…why even bother to reply when it is so obvious you didnt even bother to read what I wrote with clarity? Anyhow…pointless responding to people who deliberately extrapolate the worst and most extreme meaning of what you actually wrote. ahlam May 8, 2011 No, I know you did not mention the details of what and where you saw those celebrations etc other than those palestinians…which is what I was asking for. The problem in your comment was that you just passed ”middleeast” off as though the *MiddleEast* is ONE Country when its not!!!. Therefore my comment. Carlos May 7, 2011 Why do you not believe Coorled38 when she says she witnessed some Bahraini men, women and their teen children clap and whistle in response to the 9/11 attacks? Do you think she is making this up? Has anything she wrote indicated she is not credible? Even my wife, who is not American born, made a joke about the 9/11 attacks on the evening of the attacks. I yelled at her for her insensitivity. Perhaps, because she was not born American, she did not take the attacks as personally as I did. I do not find it hard to believe that some foreigners, particularly in the ME, were being insensitive about the attacks, or worse, cheering the attacks. I am sure this was a minority, but Coorled38 was in Bahrain, and she wrote that it was more than “just a handful.” I believe Coorled38. If that was the reaction of more than a handful of Bahrainis, I wonder how many cheered in places like Gaza, Baghdad, Tehran, Islamabad, Kandahar, Beirut, etc. And I applaud Coorled38 for her sensibility regarding the burial at sea. She makes a very sound point that a body is just a body, and that human life is so much more important to care about. I agree that there are much more important things about which to be disturbed. Furthermore, burial at sea is an ancient, honorable, noble and even romantic custom. Watch the movie “Master and Commander.” The scene of the burial at sea was very emotionally powerful. I almost think the honor was too good for the body of OBL. My country is such a noble one, to give even its most despised enemy such an honorable burial. As for whether Obama ordered bin Laden to not be taken alive, I do not know. OBL dying in the raid made things much less legally complicated, but taking him alive could have also been very useful in terms of the intelligence that could be obtained from him, not to mention denying him the “martyrdom” that his followers fine so important. I hope Obama did not order him to be executed. I would like to think that the president of my country is a little more noble than that. The Administration says OBL was killed because he resisted. Knowing how trigger happy police can be, I can believe a SEAL would be just as trigger happy if a renowned terrorist makes a furtive move, as if he is going for a firearm. The SEALs were deep in “off limits” territory, and I am guessing they did not have any time to spare, dealing with an unruly quarry. muslimah May 7, 2011 its funny how the anchor is like ‘you are a devout muslim you wear a niqab’ ha, so is he implying Mona isnt a devout Muslim? a piece of cloth doesnt define your sense of piety. great video nevertheless! greentea May 7, 2011 Interesting report on BBC bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13323060 -Link permitted as it relates to breaking news (not opinion) on subject. muslimah May 7, 2011 for the record, the video showing Palestinians celebrating 9/11 was a fake one..my brother was saying (he read it in the news) it was made by a Israeli guy to defame muslims..Allahu’alam. crazy world we live in.. justice4all May 7, 2011 I think Bush Jr. and his team of liars deserve similar fate for the crimes committed as leaders signing-off on illegal wars, killing and destroying Muslim societies. Confused May 7, 2011 It took me way too long to figure out that OBL=osama bin laden…wow waleed ahmed May 7, 2011 A niqabi was invited on CNN to offer her opinion about something not related to the niqab! This is a new level for CNN. I think Heba is on her way to becoming the first niqabi tv personality in America! Well done again! Amad May 8, 2011 Thanks Waleed for finally bringing this up… we are so caught up in the news cycle that most of the comments don’t even relate to what the sisters were talking about, as well as the landmark issue of a woman in niqaab talking on issues ex-niqaab As tweeted on MM, while France is busy locking up women with niqaab at home (essentially), America’s putting them on CNN! Filisteeniyyah May 8, 2011 This is really wonderful to see! A niqaabi Muslimah being called to CNN not once but twice! If you don’t mind sharing, how did all this come about…do you know someone from CNN, or were you doing some local activities that caught the eyes of some journalists and it went from there? I’m just really curious and I hope this continues InshaAllah. asmabintdahir May 8, 2011 mashaAllah bare respect for heba! keep up the good work Amad May 8, 2011 Comment #100: Comments closed :) thanks everyone for the engaging discussion. Let’s hope that this isn’t the last post discussing Sr. Hebah’s CNN appearances! Go forth, our Muslim sisters!