“…And nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, “We are Christians”: because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.”

Just as “Christians” have committed atrocities in the past, using their connection to the church to justify their actions, terrorists continue to use Islamic scripture to justify their actions. Granted, and freshly learned from this discussion, the Scripture has been taken out of contest, but is still used as justification.

I look forward with great anticipation to future discussions. Indeed, God is great, and may we all find His way in our lives.

The only reason why you have the work at a community level and even be a citizen is because of war that defended your rights to do all those things. So don’t sit here and tell me that war doesn’t work.

If you’re truly a Muslim women then you must believe in the Qur’an. It has countless examples of how war was used as a means, from pagans to Jews. Doesn’t Muhammad provide perfect examples of how to act? If you’re a citizen in the US then you know that war again was used as a means to a solution. So now you’re binded by a dilemma aren’t you?

These violent Muslims commit violent acts. Violent acts are produced from violent thoughts. The only way to truly combat them is to prevent these thoughts or change these thoughts. An example would be for Muslims to send Islamic evangelists in the middle east to teach the message of peace to these radicals and convert them. But they’re not doing that. Instead they spend all their time defending how peaceful they are, how to properly interpret the Qur’an, and how to convert non-Muslims.

Shouldn’t they invest their time converting these radical Muslims? Makes sense right?

But I would argue that Islamism, like all other -ISMs has nothing to do with religious conviction or spirituality, but is rather a political ideology. Compare with ZionISM, which for the past 60-70 years at least, has drawn on a few passages in the Torah to justify all sorts of violence against Palestinians, including assassinations, torture, and the use of excessive force against civilians (including women and children). There have been plenty of articles and books that have exposed this violent history, though you won’t hear about them in the mainstream media. But even a quick Wiki search will prove my point: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

So, in answer to your question, plenty of radical Jews today DO use the Torah to justify killing people. Radical Christians also draw on the Bible to justify political violence. Here’s a recent example, which I read about last week: http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2008/12/08/rick-warren-to-speak-to-muslim-convention-after-calling-for-ahmadinejad-assassination/

Of course, Islamism is a particularly complex problem, because it is a political ideology that has developed outside of, and in direct opposition to, state apparatuses. Al-Qaeda is a transnational, global network of terrorists who commit their political crimes independently of the nation-states in which they live, or to which they belong: Bin Laden was not acting as an operative of the Saudi state, but in opposition to it.

In contrast, most Western (Christian-majority) countries and their client states abroad use their massive, military industrial complexes to do their dirty work for them. Although we may remain blissfully ignorant of it, there IS such a thing as state sponsored political violence, and even state-sponsored terrorism. While modern Western governments can no longer use religious rhetoric to justify invading other countries (as they did during the Crusades), they certainly do draw on political ideologies to do so. Look at how many thousands of innocent people in Vietnam, Latin America, and elsewhere died in just the second half of the 20th century as the US tried to “defend” capitalISM from the “threat” of communISM.

That said, I admit that I find it especially egregious when people draw on religious discourse to justify political acts of violence. Such people do nothing but denigrate the religions they claim to be living by, and reduce the timeless, transcendent aspects of true faith to the most most fleeting and un-Godly dimensions of worldly politics.

kevin, I’m not delusional, I simply don’t share your idea that supporting governments who commit mass murder of Muslim populations is the solution. Actually, your “solution” of using war and state-sponsored violence to supposedly “combat” Islamist movements is the model that has been tried over and over again and that has FAILED miserably each time. Just look at the consequences of the war in Iraq.

Here is a very good article that shows just how counterproductive the type of action you support has been: http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2010/1209/What-really-drives-suicide-terrorists

I am a private citizen, not a member of the military or FBI or CIA or MI-5. In this capacity, I choose to work, at a community level, to prevent radicalization, and to mobilize peacefully against violent acts committed in the name of my religion – or ANY religion for that matter. I support putting terrorists on trial and in jail and stopping them from advocating hate crimes or proselytizing their violent ideology (and I say “ideology” instead of “theology” very deliberately here). But I will also protest the violent “solutions” proposed by opportunistic politicians and policy makers whose motives for going to war are NOT to combat terrorism but rather to protect Western economic interests and political hegemony in the Middle East and elsewhere.

Obviously, my grass-roots approach will not have immediate results, but I firmly believe that, in the long term, it is the only way to deal with the root of the problem.

Leila you say that no such people such as clerics or religious books have any influence with you. Most Muslims are like that but how come radical Muslims aren’t like that? What is causing them to be so ignorant as to misread these books and be so gullible? Why the gap?

- Marvin

Amad, that goes for you too. You only state “what” needs to be done yet don’t provide “how” its going to be done.
So many people including Muslims say “we need to do this” and “we need to do that” but never say exactly how its going to be done.

Seriously, what other way are you going to stop a radical Islam? Are you going to invite him to your house and enjoy a cup of coffee with him while you convince him that his theology is wrong? Or better yet are the nice Muslims going to provide a Radical Islam Rehab center? Come on now! Seriously. What other way? You must use violence such as war. Sometimes war is needed for peace. These Muslims are coming after you with guns, bombs, with the intention to chop your head off and you’re gonna sit here and try to convince them with flowery kind words like its suppose to be conflict management or an episode of Sesame Street? That thinking is so delusional, absurd, and you wonder why nothing is working today.

I find it interesting how both of you overlook your own religious books. It provided numerous accounts on how Islam used violence as an answer. Whether you say it was for self defense or oppression the bottom line is that is still used violence PERIOD! You cannot deny that and if you do you are a liar. Muhammed used violence as a solution and it worked. Mimic the prophet, his words, his ways my friends. He provided perfect examples contained in the Qur’an.