Constantly claiming your’re ahlusunnah wa jamah doesn’t change the fact that most Muslims really aren’t sufis.

Since when did scholars DECIDE Islam? If there are some scholars who make a bidah acceptable, who gave scholars such a status that we can say “Oh no, shut up you can’t say anything against this, you’re not a scholar”.

We do not worship scholars. There is bidah that is part of the religion and bidah that is not. Mawlid has nothing to do with the sunnah, it is complete bidah. Charity online-that is acceptable. Mawlid? Complete bidah.

Can you tell me if:
1) Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) never celebrated the birthday then why He said (Summary):
I was born on Monday that is why I fast this day (Not accurate, but the shaykh here himself has mentioned this in his articles)

2) Why the punishment for the Abu Lahab was lessened when he had freed his slave. (Reference can be found Sahih Bukhair, Kitab Un NIkah).

3) Keeping all the argument aside, Is there any Sahi Hadith that says do NOT celebrate the birthday of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), if yes can you present one? This way everyone will be convinced.

4) The purpose for everyone celbrating the birthday is to enhance the love for the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him), therefore a group of people who have some other objectives should be stopped from doing so but not the celebration. We’re blessed that we’re Ummati of Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him)

Although I wanted to write more but I think this is enough here. Indeed Allah and His Messenger (Peace Be Upon Him) know the best.

That statement is the falsest thing I have ever heard!

NONE of the companions were Ash’aris or held that belief. I think you should do some research akhi instead of just taking what your sufi sheikh tells you and believe in it as the absolute truth.

may Allah guide us all.

In order to understand the Salaf one must follow the Khalaf because the teachings and sayings of the Salaf reached us through the Khalaf… you can not bypass the Khalaf and go straight to the Salaf… it doesn’t work that way… and the Khalaf are the rightly guided scholars and the greatest Khalafis are the Ash’aris for they are the true representatives of the Salaf. :-)

Wa Salam,

al-faqir

Alhamdulillah, at least we are getting somewhere here :-) I think we are starting to break the ice :-)

You do have some valid points and inshallah allow me to explain… its all about understanding my brother:

1. I agree we should rely on the Salaf-us-Salih but the common people (laity) are not capable of doing that since they are lacking in the prerequisite knowledges required to perform their own personal ijtihaad. In other words if you want to go straight to the Quran and Sunnah and the ways and sayings of the Salaf then as a condition you must attain to the rank of a mujtahid mutlaq to be able to do that. That is why we have madhhabs because a madhhab is for non-mujtahids like us whom do not have the capability of performing ijtihaad at the level of the mujtahid Imams such as Imam Shafii and others. A madhhab consists of hundreds and thousands of scholars that have shifted through all of the primary sources of the religion (quran, hadith, etc.) and came out with the rulings that they did according to the methodology and rules laid down in their school when it comes to deriving the laws of Islam from the primary sources. A madhhab consists over a thousand years of legal research and scholarship which has been refined throughout the centuries! And all of a sudden we have group ascribing themselves to the ways of the Salaf claiming to know better then these great minds that came before us! That to me is just plain arrogance at the highest level. In essence they are saying that the scholars got it all wrong and we know better. That is the problem with this sort of approach. My question is to you are you a mujtahid mutlaq? Have memorized at least 300, 000 or so hadiths related to ahkam (rulings) with all of their isnaads? Have you mastered the Arabic sciences such as nahu, sarf, balaghah, etc? Are you well versed with all of the classical Sunni tafsirs out there?

2. There is no problem in using terms that were not used during the time of our Beloved Messenger, Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallim. If you look into all of the sciences of the religion you will find many terms that were adopted after the time of our Beloved Messenger, Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallim, such as “usul-al-fiqh”, “usul-ad-deen”, “ilm as-sulook”, “tasawwuf”, etc. These are just terms pointing to the realities behind them. There was a need to adopt terms in order to facilitate in the codification process of the religion. Even if you look into the fiqh books you will find chapter headings like “bab-us-salah”, “bab-ul-taharah”, etc… these sort of terms did not exist at the time of our Beloved Messenger, Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallim. They were necessary innovations needed to preserve the religion. Tasawwuf is just a term used to explain the 3rd branch of the religion which is ihsaan according the hadith Jibreel alayhi assalam. Zuhd is one aspect of this noble science. Never in history was tasawwuf categorically rejected. Tasawwuf was taught as a Sunni science within the curriculums of all the major Sunni institutions such as Al-Azhar, etc.

3. I agree that sincerity is not enough and that has to be coupled with knowledge. As for the shaykhs having “super powers” I think you are referring to what in our Sunni aqidah we call “karamaat” or gifts that Allah SWT grants to his Awliya. You must believe in this as this is a part of our aqidah. If you studied a basic text on Sunni creed such as the Tahawi creed, Imam Tahawi states:

99. We believe in what we know of the karamat or marvels of the awliya’ and in the authentic stories about them from trustworthy sources. source: http://www.livingislam.org/o/t-aq_e.html

As for shaykhs having knowledge of the unseen it is possible for Allah SWT to grant some spiritual knowledge through inspiration (ilham), true insight and premonition (firasa), and truthful dream-visions (ru’ya) which the Prophet, upon him blessings and peace, called “one-fortysixth part of Prophethood.” But them being granted spiritual knowledge or ma’rifah is because Allah SWT bestowed this knowledge upon their hearts as a gift due to their piety and proximity to Allah SWT and is not because they have the independent ability to know the unseen which is a kufr belief… this sort of knowledge is a favor from Allah granted to them by Allah. If the ilham is not in conformity with the shari’ah then it is not ilham but could be from shaytan or the nafs and Allah SWT Knows Best.

As for the shaykhs becoming “one with Allah” we would need to know what is meant by that. If taken literally then of course this is kufr and shirk. If you mean by that to be so close to Allah too the point of forgetting that you even exist (which is a high level of ihsaan and ma’rifah — spiritual awareness or spiritual knowledge — called “fanaa”) then there is nothing wrong with that. Of course it would be best not to use that statement at all as it can be misleading.

No sufi tariqah that I know commits shirk… what I think the problem here is that:

a. there are some ignorant sufis that perform innovative bid’ee rituals at the graves of the awliya which are not necessary and too excessive such as performing tawaf around the grave, beautifying the grave with flowers and lighting candles around the grave — like they do in India and Pakistan. But this is not shirk, these are just unnecessary local rituals and customs and what they mean by that is to honor the righteous that have passed away. No one is worshiping them. To worship the inhabitants of the grave is kufr and shirk. There are certain etiquettes and adab from the Sunnah with regards to visiting the graves that must be taught and learned. Now these customs might look “shirki” but we need to see what is the aim of these rituals and if these rituals contravene the shari’ah before we can judge. But most of these innovative rituals are harmless and just local customs that are not necessary.

b. many Muslims are not able to differentiate between performing tawassul through the Awliya and the worship of other then Allah. These are completely 2 different things and they have nothing in common. Here are a few articles explaining this orthodox Sunni practice of tawassul that is valid in all 4 schools:

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=141
http://www.marifah.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=48

Today in my personal opinion most tariqas are defunct or corrupted and no longer have the effectiveness that they used to have amongst the masses. However in our times there are few tariqas that are solid… today the REAL Sunni tasawwuf in our times and in my opinion is in southern Tunisia… they got some serious Sunni tasawwuf and zuhud there mashallah, with a real Shaykh! He is my Shaykh in tasawwuf and he is a very strict Maliki Sunni and does not tolerate any transgression of the shari’ah. He will never compromise the laws of Islam. He makes it incumbent on Muslim women to wear the khimar and with absolutely no free mixing amongst the sexes. He will never let you join his tariqah until you fulfill the shari’ah. And I can tell you that his whole life is Sunnah, outwardly and inwardly. Another good tariqah I would recommend is Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller’s Tariqah… they are 100% Sunni.

4. I’m sorry my dear brother but whether you like it or not the vast majority of our scholars beliefs come from these 3 schools. Just like what the 4 Imams have done in fiqh, these 3 Imams (Ashari, Maturidi, Hanbal) have done to our beliefs. That is they codified the aqidah of the salaf in a systemized way in order to preserve, defend, and disseminate the beliefs of Islam. The Salaf-us-Salih and 4 Imams have the exact some beliefs as the Asharis, Maturidis, and Atharis have. It is just that the 4 Imams specialized in fiqh (it is not as if they did not know creed, Imam Abu Hanifah was one of the first scholars to wright books on Aqidah such as his famous Fiqh Al-Akbar) and the 3 Imams in creed specialized in Aqidah and Ilm-al-Kalam which was needed to defend the beliefs of Sunni Islam against the Khawarij, Mu’tazilah, and other heretical groups. They too had knowledge of fiqh but aqidah was their area or expertise. Abul-Hasan al-Ashari was Shafii in fiqh to the best of my knowledge.

In reality there is only one creed and that is the creed of Islam. There is absolutely no difference between the 3 schools of creed. They only differed in subtle secondary points of theology — where there is a legitimate difference of opinion — and in their system of defense when it came to refuting the heretics. The Hanbali Atharis chose to steer away from ilm al-kalam and taweel and that too is fine but at the same time to use ilm al-kalam and taweel is not a bad thing if used to defend the creed of Islam as long as the rhetoric is within the acceptable rules of the Arabic language and it does not contravene the primary verses (muhkumat) of the quran.

Wa Salam,

al-faqir

1) I agree, the The Quran and the Sunnah will always have an interpreter, and that interpreter should be the ways and sayings of the Salaf-us-Salih, because the companions were the ones who received the Quran and sunnah from the prophet and passed it down to us. So the ways and sayings of the Salaf-us-Salih SHOULD be what we rely on for interpreting the Quran and the Sunnah.

2) you seem to have more sense than most sufis because you see that what they do is wrong. One thing though is you would be better off referring to what you describe as “Tasawwuf” the way you understand it as Zuhd, because what is understood now from the word “tasawwuf” is what most sufis are doing which is not Zuhd, but it is a bunch of innovations and shirk.

3) Regardless of the aims and objectives of mawlid, tasawwuf, tariqah, It is well known that for anything to be accepted by Allah, there are 2 conditions. 1) it has to be sincere for His sake alone, and 2) it has to be from the sunnah, meaning it has to be done like the prophet peace be upon him used to do it. So if either one of these 2 things is missing, then this deed will not be accepted by Allah. Look at the christians, many of them are sincere and love God sincerely, but they are lost. So sincerity alone is not enough, you have to follow the sunnah in what you do. Therefore, since mawlid, tasawwuf, tariqah all are not from the sunnah, how can any muslim use them to get closer to Allah?! Besides, if you look at the sufi “tariqahs” where the people believe that their sheikh has super powers to do things and has knowledge of the unseen and that their sheikh can become one with Allah (astaghfirullah), then you want to tell me that this is not shirk and this is part of islam?

4) The Ash’ari and Maturidi aqeedas are not considered part of the creed of Ahlu Sunnah wal Jama’a. How can you include 3 conflicting aqeedahs under one united group?!
Here is a question for you akhi, how can you take your fiqh from one of the 4 Imams of the Madhabs but not take your aqeedah from that same school of thought??? If you follow one of the 4 madhabs, then why do you take your fiqh and all rulings from that madhab but do not follow the aqeedah of that same imam???

In terms of Sunni Islamic scholarship I think it is important to know who are the Ahl Assunnah wa Al-Jamaa’ah which is the majority group throughout the history of Islam. According to the Sunni scholars they are:

1. The Three (3) Sunni Schools of Creed — Aqidah:

a. The Ash’ari School – the founder being Abu al-Hasan al-Ash’ari
b. The Maturidi School – the founder being Abu Mansur al-Maturidi
c. The Athari School – the founder being Ahmad ibn Hanbal

2. The Four (4) Sunni Schools of Law — Fiqh

a. The Hanafi School
b. The Maliki School
c. The Shafii School
d. The Hanbali School

3. The Imams of Sunni Tasawwuf

such as Hasan al-Basri, Junayd al-Baghdadi, al-Ghazali, etc. and the many Sunni turuq (Sunni spiritual paths or schools of inward purification and sulook — the science of journeying to Allah).

4. The Scholars of Quran & Tafsir

5. The Scholars of Hadith

6. The Scholar of the Arabic sciences such as nahu, sarf, balaghah, etc.

7. The Mujahideen

8. And those who follow the scholars amongst the laity and Allah SWT Knows best

No one can deny this as this historical and unanimous amongst the scholars of Sunni Islam.

The way of Sunni Islam is to take your Aqidah from anyone of the 3 Schools of Creed, to take your fiqh from anyone of the 4 Schools of Fiqh, and to take your Tasawwuf from any of the authoritative Imams of this science. As for following a tariqah, it is just an Islamic brotherhood or fraternity designed by the scholars as an institution to help and facilitate the spiritual development of the mureed just as a madrasah is an institution designed to facilitate the process of disseminating islamic knowledge, etc.

It would help if we look at the aims and objectives of mawlid, tasawwuf, tariqah, etc. instead of concentrating on the terms themselves… lets look at the realities behind these names and judge them by the scales of the shari’ah. If these things are in conformity with the shari’ah how can they be condemned? All of these are just means to help the Sunni Muslim to fulfill the very purpose of his existence which is the worship of Allah SWT and if the means are in conformity with shari’ah and the end result is the fulfillment of the commandments of Allah SWT and the adherence to the Sunnah then how can these noble means be condemned?

Wa Salam,

al-faqir