Open Thread Sunday 6-22-08

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It’s Open Thread Sunday once again, so comment away.

As a nice refresher, below are some posts related to fiqh, some of its subtleties and the attitude one should have with regards to it.

We Hear and We Obey
A Simple Matter of Disagreement?
Of Mice and Men: The Cheese Factor

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20 responses to “Open Thread Sunday 6-22-08”

  1. Harun says:

    Good article on reflecting on the Qur’an by Imam Anwar.

    ps. Any update on that comment-tracking feature? i.e. one where you can view all the recent comments made by the shuyukh.

  2. Anisa says:

    Asalaamu Alaaikum folks

    Qur’an:
    Say: “Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed
    for us: He is our protector”: and in Allah must Believers place
    their trust.
    Surat At-Tawbah 9:51

    [Lessons from this Verse] Whatever tests you are going through
    today, Allah knows it. He is your protector. Turn to Allah in
    submission and worship, placing your trust in Him, and watch
    what happens!

  3. ibnabeeomar says:

    harun, underneath the window where you write a comment is a checkbox that says subscribe. you can use that to follow the comments on a specific post, however, there isn’t a way to only track comments by one of the shuyookh unfortunately.

  4. aH says:

    yeah Alhum the French team has a number of Muslims, Eric Abidal married an Algerian sister and also converted taking the name Bilal. Other up and coming stars in the French team include the Karim Benzema (21) of Algerian descent and Samir Nasiri (19) who I’m assuming are both Muslim. The later is supposedly the new Zidane and has apparently signed for Arsenal (Go gunners!). Well most of the European teams fielding Muslims (france, holland..) have been knocked out but we still have Turkey who have shocked even themeselves by getting to the semi finals.

    Anyhow most ppl could care less about soccer but I just wanted to add that its amazing how a country like France can field so many Muslims in its Soccer/Football team but is so adamant about imposing restrictions on the Hijab and make life difficult for Muslim Sisters. I just think its sad.

    Here’s Riberry Making Dua before a club game

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=JI3SXYcAmQk

  5. aH says:

    before someone beats me to it. Its even sadder that Turkey, a country with a majority Muslim population has restrictions on the Hijab :(

  6. coolred38 says:

    I find it rather interesting that Muslims will protest that Muslim women are not allowed to wear hijab in places like Turkey or in some parts of France etc..and yet will not protest when Muslim women are forced to wear hijab in places like Saudi or Afghanistan(and by protest I mean actually paint up some signs and gather for a march or something and make it reach the nightly news)….and is some cases pay for it with their lives. It seems only fair that getting upset over forced removal…should also lead to getting upset over forced wearing….because either way a basic human right is being ignored…the right to choose what we wear without fear of reprisals from the govt or from society. Not to mention that even non Muslim women are being forced into wearing it just to quiet the raging beasts of male pride and ego quiet and subdued…

    Muslims are hypocrites if they can self righteously protest one form of force(removal) and not the other form of force(wearing)…just my opinion on that.

  7. Ammar Diwan says:

    coolred38:

    It is required by Islamic law that all females above the age of puberty wear hijab in public. No sane Muslim would protest: “Oh how bad, the law is being applied properly, let’s protest!”

    Muslims aren’t out to be politically correct or have every non-Muslim like Islam.

    I’m not a fan of being apologetic =]

  8. coolred38 says:

    Its also an Islamic law…if you choose those words…to pray 5 times a day…its a basic pillar of Islam…yet I do not see a law stating that Muslims must pray or be punished(talking about here and now…not later)…I dont see men abusing other men for not rushing to the mosque to pray…I dont see men getting being punished RIGHT HERE AND NOW for the Islamic laws they choose to avoid fullfilling…..so please dont defend it that way. There are plenty of Islamic “musts” that are not enforced nearly as much or at all…as the hijab on women. “The law is being applied properly…”…really? interesting how that law gets applied properly…but so many others dont. Im a Muslim and I dont apologize for Islam as its perfect the way it is….but Muslims need to learn some mercy and forgiveness…not to mention respect for other peoples rights.

  9. coolred38 says:

    “Muslims aren’t out to be politically correct or have every non-Muslim like Islam….”….what does that have to do with the price humus in Saudi? Basic human rights is a given in Islam…its not about politics or making others like us…its about following the Laws of God above all man made laws….forcing women to dress a certain way….even if you think its sanctioned by God….is doing her an injustice…God gave us the choice to obey or not…..by using force you are removing her right to choose… and Islam is not about injustice….every moment of the prophets life was spent trying to teach Muslims exactly that.

  10. Hassan says:

    coolred38, in Saudia, men are punished for not praying, if they are seen walking on streets while its time for prayer, they are taken to masjid, and then given a lecture afterwards. If the shops dont close, they get fined or shut down completely. There are cities in which imam of masjid keep register for attendance.

  11. Derelict of Dialect says:

    Hasan, I take it you haven’t been to KSA. CoolRed38, who you obviously disagree with, is saying something that you are clearly not understanding. He\she is referring to their perception of an uneven application of Islamic Law.

  12. aH says:

    Coolred, you obviously missed my point. What I was stressing was people in France or Turkey don’t have the freedom to wear hijab when going to universities or such. Freedoms that sisters in the US, UK and other western countries have. I don’t see how me suggesting its sad that sisters who “choose” to wear the Hijab cannot do so freely in those countries is somehow hypocritical due to what you say the situation in Saudi Arabia is.

    First of all Hijab is something that the majority of the Ulama have agreed upon is mandatory. A woman not wearing hijab is undoubtedly committing a sin but she should never be looked down upon by others as we are all sinful and have our own trials and tribulations. I never said for the government to force them to wear hijab, or persecute them if they do not. My point was a country like France where a sizable majority is Muslim is one of the few countries with rigid laws prohibiting Hijab. Turkey a Muslim secular country too has this going on. Essentially I believe the powers in those countries are scared that a woman wearing a headscarf will somehow be intimidating by sending some sort of political message. That’s what I find sad.

    Please understand what I was trying to say before accusing me of being a hypocrite

  13. Hassan says:

    Derelict of Dialect, I have lived there 18 years continuously, and since then visited it atleast a month every year till 2003.

  14. Hassan says:

    And yes, men are treated more harshly if they do not pray, and so right or wrong, they do enforce all laws that a government can possibly do so.

  15. bint masood says:

    the difference, coolred, is that Saudi Aabia is a Musim country. you arent going to protest against an islamic law in an islamic country. but, a country, that has a majority muslim population, is imposing a ban on a very critical article of a muslim’s faith is quite ridiculuous and calls for protest.

  16. ExEx Blogger says:

    May I suggest to add 2 people to your panelists:
    Umar Lee
    Tariq Nelson

    Enough said.

  17. Mary says:

    Greetings, all —

    My question has to do with the hijab — technically, I should have posted in other threads dealing with this matter, but was afraid they weren’t being read as much as they’ve been up for a while, so thought I’d ask here.

    A young Muslim woman in Great Britain has just been awarded 4,000 pounds in a discrimination suit against a London hair salon owner.

    Now, I am against discrimination based on the hijab. I feel that governments banning it are wrong. If healthy democracies can accommodate Sikhs’ turbans, they can accommodate the hijab. Such dress hurts no one (unless they’re working in a factory, where safety issues are a concern).

    However, this case seems different to me. The salon owner, Sarah Desrosiers, is targeting a specific niche in her business — those seeking the “urban chic” look (vivid colors, spikes, etc.). An integral part of this is that the staff appear in the look that clients are seeking. The atmosphere of the salon, in her view, must be itself “urban chic.” Additionally, Desrosiers’ shop, Wedge, depends in large part on being seen by passersby. So, her decision not to hire Ms. Bushra Noah was based on the view that Ms. Noah’s conservative dress — coupled with her own hidden hair — would have a negative affect on drawing clients. This would be true of any woman, regardless of religious identity (many Hindu women, for instance, wear head coverings).

    The other-hand argument is that Ms. Noah may have been a very good stylist in her own right. After all, hijab-wearing women don’t have to wear their hijabs in private life, and care every bit as much about their appearance as any other women. It’s entirely likely she could have a lot of talent. Though she dresses conservatively, it doesn’t mean she can’t produce the look that Wedge Salon offers. Some people have suggested that Ms. Desrosiers should have asked for a portfolio, or found a volunteer for Ms. Noah to prove her skills upon. As a small business owner, however, those actions demand more time than she had available.

    My feeling is that Ms. Desrosiers, as a private business owner, can choose her staff based on her own decisions. I agree that trendy salons depend on their staff as the “front line” of their image, which is anything but conservative. Ms. Noah’s conservative dress would have had a negative affect on potential clients’ choice of whether to patronize the salon.

    I feel Ms. Noah would have had far better luck seeking work at a more conservative salon, or even started up one of her own that exclusively catered to hijab-wearing women. For example — someone like her would instinctively know how to deal with fixing “hat hair” (or in this case, “hijab hair”) and other issues uniquely related to wearing the hijab. I’d be willing to bet she’d have FAR more success than to try and force the issue with an unwilling potential employer like Wedge Salon.

    Furthermore, Wedge Salon is unisex. A conservative Muslim woman is forbidden to touch men who are not related to them. I don’t see how she could have reconciled this? Thoughts on this are very much sought.

    In a climate of “There those Muslims go again, trying to force their views on us”, this case frustrates me. I want to defend the hijab, even though I’ll never wear it — but I feel this case is a setback.

  18. ummafnaan says:

    Hello Mary,

    I am a muslim woman who observes the hijab and the face veil and I have to say I would definately not go seeking employment in a unisex hairsalon in a country like the UK where clearly the norms are different from a predominantly muslim society.
    I have to say I totally agree with everything that you have said. I don’t know the reasons why Ms Noah chose to search for employment in a unisex hair salon where it was highly likely she would have to touch male clients’ hair etc, but maybe it was under dire circumstances or last resort to look for work. But from reading the article it seems to me that the issue with Sarah the owner was truly not the fact that she was muslim, but the fact that she coverered her hair, which yes I can see why she would think that it would be detrimental to her business. I assume she would not have had a problem with a muslim who didn’t wear a headscarf.

    If Ms Noah had searched for a job which had nothing to do with the need for her hair to be exposed, then yes maybe it would have fallen under the banner of discrimination, but in this case I feel Wedge had every right to turn her down, considering the norm of the society as I pointed out earlier. Although I live in Nigeria which is quite conservative especially in the northern part, I studied for five years in the UK and I know that there were many places where I just wouldnt even bother going to look for a job as I knew the environment would be contradictory to my chosen way of dress. And I do agree with you and also Islam encourages muslims who find it difficult to practice their religion and also everyday duties such as halal employment options, etc, to emigrate to a more acceptable society for them. Islam does not allow for us muslims to impose our ways of living and belief on non muslims especially if we are living in a minority.

  19. Mary says:

    Thank you, ummafnaan .

    I feel this is less a Muslim issue, than a human one.

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