Comments on: The Scourge of “Internet Tribalism” http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/ Discourses in the Intellectual Traditions, Political Situation, and Social Ethics of Muslim Life Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:29:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Martin Makara http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-33843 Martin Makara Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:31:41 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-33843 It's sad when people with the same destiny divide themselves along tribal lines. It’s sad when people with the same destiny divide themselves along tribal lines.

]]> By: PR Lessons from the Rev. Jesse Jackson’s “Obama Surgery” | MuslimMatters.org http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-22776 PR Lessons from the Rev. Jesse Jackson’s “Obama Surgery” | MuslimMatters.org Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:26:16 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-22776 [...] The Scourge of “Internet Tribalism” [...]

]]> By: BAM!!! « The Converts Corner http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-21327 BAM!!! « The Converts Corner Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:26:30 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-21327 [...] http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/ [...] [...] http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/ [...]

]]> By: whawha http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20722 whawha Tue, 03 Jun 2008 04:53:09 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20722 As Salaam Alaikum, I don't know much about this situation so I am not going to rant about something that I am not sure of how rapid it is in the community. I will speak from personal experience: I will say that as a BAM what I find frustrating is that many IMM love to label everything American about me <b>haraam</b>, and yet everything in their culture is perfectly acceptable. salaam As Salaam Alaikum,
I don’t know much about this situation so I am not going to rant about something that I am not sure of how rapid it is in the community. I will speak from personal experience:

I will say that as a BAM what I find frustrating is that many IMM love to label everything American about me haraam, and yet everything in their culture is perfectly acceptable.

salaam

]]> By: abu ameerah http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20604 abu ameerah Fri, 30 May 2008 14:22:47 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20604 Abu Ameerah bro, that was a joke… I know you know the difference. Woe to you for thinking I didn’t… after this post, will you still treat me to the kabobs at that great Persian restaurant?

@ Amad:

Dude…if you wanna be treated to kabobs at a fancy Persian restaurant by yours truly … well then you’ve gotta take care of the following:

1. Manicure & Pedicure – Ya. So. Guys get it done too, right?
2. Get your hair done – Seriously man…some highlights (blonde preferably) and a little conditioner wouldn’t hurt. Know what i’m sayin’?
3. A facial would be nice! :) I mean that! (also get the brows waxed a bit while your at it. threading actually works better)
4. Get a decent outfit! It doesn’t have to be a couture or anything. Spring colors would be nice is all i’m sayin’…
5. How about some cologne akhi. By this, I am NOT referring to any scented perfumes or oils!

Take care of #’s 1-5 akhi … and then kabobing we shall go!

]]> By: The BAM’s vs. the IMM’s! Tribalism within US Muslim community? « Refugee Resettlement Watch http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20602 The BAM’s vs. the IMM’s! Tribalism within US Muslim community? « Refugee Resettlement Watch Fri, 30 May 2008 11:12:49 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20602 [...] would bond, I don’t think I am going too far afield to discuss this very fascinating post I came across yesterday.    It is written at a blog called Muslim Matters and is entitled [...]

]]> By: Tariq Nelson http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20550 Tariq Nelson Thu, 29 May 2008 09:44:42 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20550

Those of us who are at least somewhat active in the community, (heck we’re reading internet articles about Muslims) must never lose sight of the fact that the majority of Muslims in the United States NEVER go to ANY mosque. There’s a huge number that may only show up for the Eid Salah and many more that do not even show up for those.

Abu Noor,

I couldn’t agree with you more.

Again, alhamdulillah there are many excellent and strong individuals, but anyone who has attended masjids or events affiliated with the community of Imam WD Muhammad will notice that there is a strong presence of “pioneers” but there will likely be only a handful of youth in their teens, twenties or even thirties.

A good friend of mine was giving a lecture for the youth at such a masjid. At 34, I was one of youngest in attendance. However, this is not limited to WD Mohammed’s movement as other BAM masjids are having similar problems with the second generation. (It is usually masked by an influx of young converts) The difference with BAMs (regardless of movement) is that it is a lot easier to melt back into greater non-muslim society as a “regular” Blackamerican and not look back whereas a Pakistani (for example) would be seen as a Muslim no matter how hard he tried to hide it.

I have identified a number of athletes and other celebrities that grew up Muslim, have Muslim names, but are not Muslim. (Muhsin Muhammad, Idris Bashir, Ragheeb Ismail, and Malik Yoba to name a few)

All of this is to say that there are mighty challenges ahead of the community on a variety of fronts and while it is natural that we start to focus on those people who attend the mosque regularly, or attend conventions or conferences, we can never lose sight of the big picture that the majority of Muslims in this country are not even included in such observations and their Islam is lived in a completely different context.

Indeed…In fact, I feel that the next great frontier will be going after the “un-mosqued” who are perhaps 80-90% of the US Muslims

]]> By: SaqibSaab http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20543 SaqibSaab Thu, 29 May 2008 00:58:21 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20543 <blockquote>Indeed these individuals are indeed not Uncle Toms. They are Elders. Elders of the Muslim community. And IMMs would take any of them over a 99% of non-BAM Imams.</blockquote> YES! On point throughout. I don't love Imam Siraj simply because he's Black. I love him because his influence and skills are POWERFUL, and his work motivates me regardless of whether I'm Indian, American, Pakistani, Egyptian, Palestinian, Iraqi or even Black. JazakAllah khair, Amad Bhai. <blockquote>While AR started with some fabulous posts about the history and issues in the black community, several later posts degenerated into fodder for disunity and hatred.</blockquote> When I first read part of his series posts, I found lots of wonderful insight into the nature of African American Islam and its situation today. But I also found a lot negativity towards "IMMs" and stopped reading thereafter.

Indeed these individuals are indeed not Uncle Toms. They are Elders. Elders of the Muslim community. And IMMs would take any of them over a 99% of non-BAM Imams.

YES! On point throughout. I don’t love Imam Siraj simply because he’s Black. I love him because his influence and skills are POWERFUL, and his work motivates me regardless of whether I’m Indian, American, Pakistani, Egyptian, Palestinian, Iraqi or even Black. JazakAllah khair, Amad Bhai.

While AR started with some fabulous posts about the history and issues in the black community, several later posts degenerated into fodder for disunity and hatred.

When I first read part of his series posts, I found lots of wonderful insight into the nature of African American Islam and its situation today. But I also found a lot negativity towards “IMMs” and stopped reading thereafter.

]]> By: Abu Noor Al-Irlandee http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20538 Abu Noor Al-Irlandee Thu, 29 May 2008 00:20:24 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20538 I just want to add one important point that goes along with Brother Tariq's response to the issue of "Where are all the Blackamerican Muslims?" Those of us who are at least somewhat active in the community, (heck we're reading internet articles about Muslims) must never lose sight of the fact that the majority of Muslims in the United States NEVER go to ANY mosque. There's a huge number that may only show up for the Eid Salah and many more that do not even show up for those. Although maShaAllaah as part of the global Islamic revival, there is a revival of serious interest in and love for the deen among a certain percentage of the younger generations here in the U.S., this is still a minority of the Muslims caught up in this. And we must realize if we are concerned for planning for the community that these younger generations that were born and grew up here (of whatever background) will face additional problems different from those of the immigrant generations. Among the immigrants, many would be attached to the mosque because that was a social environment where they could connect with people that spoke their language, shared their history, etc. They could come together to assist each other financially, emotionally, and spiritually. Although I am aware of some of the problems in those communities and among that generation, one cannot help but admire the sacrifices they made for their children and the community and the success they had in establishing masajid, schools, businesses, etc. As younger generations are more 'assimilated' to the U.S. they have less and less reason to come to the mosque if they are not "religious" or if they don't find it relevant to their needs and wants. Many of those who migrated as Muslims to the United States in the first half of the 20th century completely lost their deen to the point where their descendants alive today may know that their family came originally from Lebanon or Albania or wherever but they have absolutely no connection to the deen of Islam. Among the Blackamerican community one can also see the phenomenon of generational change as one looks at the children and grandchildren of those who first accepted Islam in the 50s, 60s or 70s. Alhamdulillaah there are some very strong and excellent families maSha Allaah but among the majority you find, as you might expect, that those who simply grew up "as Muslims" are in the majority a lot less committed to and identify less with the deen than did their parents or grandparents who originally made the choice themselves to accept Islam. Again, alhamdulillah there are many excellent and strong individuals, but anyone who has attended masjids or events affiliated with the community of Imam WD Muhammad will notice that there is a strong presence of "pioneers" but there will likely be only a handful of youth in their teens, twenties or even thirties. All of this is to say that there are mighty challenges ahead of the community on a variety of fronts and while it is natural that we start to focus on those people who attend the mosque regularly, or attend conventions or conferences, we can never lose sight of the big picture that the majority of Muslims in this country are not even included in such observations and their Islam is lived in a completely different context. Allaah knows best. I just want to add one important point that goes along with Brother Tariq’s response to the issue of “Where are all the Blackamerican Muslims?”

Those of us who are at least somewhat active in the community, (heck we’re reading internet articles about Muslims) must never lose sight of the fact that the majority of Muslims in the United States NEVER go to ANY mosque. There’s a huge number that may only show up for the Eid Salah and many more that do not even show up for those.

Although maShaAllaah as part of the global Islamic revival, there is a revival of serious interest in and love for the deen among a certain percentage of the younger generations here in the U.S., this is still a minority of the Muslims caught up in this. And we must realize if we are concerned for planning for the community that these younger generations that were born and grew up here (of whatever background) will face additional problems different from those of the immigrant generations. Among the immigrants, many would be attached to the mosque because that was a social environment where they could connect with people that spoke their language, shared their history, etc. They could come together to assist each other financially, emotionally, and spiritually. Although I am aware of some of the problems in those communities and among that generation, one cannot help but admire the sacrifices they made for their children and the community and the success they had in establishing masajid, schools, businesses, etc. As younger generations are more ‘assimilated’ to the U.S. they have less and less reason to come to the mosque if they are not “religious” or if they don’t find it relevant to their needs and wants. Many of those who migrated as Muslims to the United States in the first half of the 20th century completely lost their deen to the point where their descendants alive today may know that their family came originally from Lebanon or Albania or wherever but they have absolutely no connection to the deen of Islam.

Among the Blackamerican community one can also see the phenomenon of generational change as one looks at the children and grandchildren of those who first accepted Islam in the 50s, 60s or 70s. Alhamdulillaah there are some very strong and excellent families maSha Allaah but among the majority you find, as you might expect, that those who simply grew up “as Muslims” are in the majority a lot less committed to and identify less with the deen than did their parents or grandparents who originally made the choice themselves to accept Islam. Again, alhamdulillah there are many excellent and strong individuals, but anyone who has attended masjids or events affiliated with the community of Imam WD Muhammad will notice that there is a strong presence of “pioneers” but there will likely be only a handful of youth in their teens, twenties or even thirties.

All of this is to say that there are mighty challenges ahead of the community on a variety of fronts and while it is natural that we start to focus on those people who attend the mosque regularly, or attend conventions or conferences, we can never lose sight of the big picture that the majority of Muslims in this country are not even included in such observations and their Islam is lived in a completely different context.

Allaah knows best.

]]> By: Nasrin http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20535 Nasrin Wed, 28 May 2008 21:34:05 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/05/27/the-scourge-of-internet-tribalism/#comment-20535 This may be a bit off topic, but since I may not post again for awhile I might as well ask. What are some of the main differences between Arab ad Pakistani culture? There seems to be a lot of differences as well as similarities. I don't have close friends of either ethnic group, therefore I am not overly familiar with them..... except for their cuisine :) I think it is much better to ask and get to know each other rather than assuming. That is why it is often assumed that we have no culture. Many times, no one bothered to find out (smile). This may be a bit off topic, but since I may not post again for awhile I might as well ask. What are some of the main differences between Arab ad Pakistani culture? There seems to be a lot of differences as well as similarities. I don’t have close friends of either ethnic group, therefore I am not overly familiar with them….. except for their cuisine :)

I think it is much better to ask and get to know each other rather than assuming. That is why it is often assumed that we have no culture. Many times, no one bothered to find out (smile).

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