The Marriage Project: Building a Renewed Matrimonial System
Article by Rami Mahmoud Elsawah
Photo by Think Tank
Islamic matrimonial services….
Auntie networks…
Friends who can’t even get married themselves…
The average Muslim waits two to three years to get married from the time he or she begins searching, according to a friend of mine in the matrimonial business. I did not believe him until two years ago, when I began actively searching for a spouse myself. I thought the process would be easy as pie. After all, I can cook very well, am kind to my mother, religiously conservative, and have been told I have good character. Yet now, single and frustrated, I have come to take aim at the disdainful state of the social networks available for Muslims to get married. You would think after all, that the cooking factor alone would have had the sisters lining up out the door with applications in hand.
Now, don’t misunderstand me. I have met some very nice sisters along my path towards marriage; though unfortunately ethnicity, her ‘education’, lifestyle compatibility, (i.e. the usual culprits of delayed marriage) played a factor. I know many brothers in similar situations. With almost seven million Muslims in America, should not at least a few dozen candidates out there fit like a glove? The problem is where are they hiding, and how do you find them? I believe a better system exists out there which we as a Muslim community can integrate and adapt.
An Introduction to the Problem: “Auntie Network” Defects
Let me introduce you to a few scenarios from the Auntie scene:
a) He’s a man; she’s a woman, perfect match!
b) “Brother, I have a good religious sister for you.”
“Okay, umm…does she wear hijab”?
“Well…I don’t know”.
“Great, thanks”
c) “Sister, I have a religious brother for you”
“Okay, please you tell me a little about him.”
“Well, he’s 35, born and raised in a country you’ve only visited a few times in your life, speaks broken English, and needs a visa.”
The first place a Muslim turns to when looking for a spouse are a set narrow enclaves of families and friends which are unskilled and give the average Muslim only a handful of candidates to choose from. These micro-independent networks — aka “the auntie networks’ — are riddled with manufacturers’ defects, all of which are well known and need not be named here. Generally, in a macro view, the problem sums up to two issues:
1) Few choices - Considering the fact that approximately seven million Muslims live in America, even being introduced to 10 candidates is barely scratching the surface of possibilities.
2) Poor matching criteria - Really, enough said.
A Bigger Network with Bigger Issues: The Online Matrimonial Service
Online Matrimonial services attempt to remedy the first issue of few choices within the micro-independent networks by widening the scope to national and even international candidates. Yet bypassing the human networks leaves the candidate with impersonal and cold matching criteria — and many times ridiculous. Here are some examples:
Zawaj.com: Gender / Age / Height / Country. (That helps much!)
Muslima.com: **Horoscope Sign** / Education / Occupation / Country / Ethnicity / Physical (Age, height, Appearance, etc).
Icmarriage.com: Education / Occupation / Country / Ethnicity / Physical (Age, body type, etc) / Head Scarf? / Practicing pillars of Islam? / Marital Status / Have children? / Want children?
Now, I ask two questions:
1) Where are the Religious Criteria? ICmarriage is the only one that even mentions religious criteria at all, yet all profess to be MUSLIM matrimonial services. I don’t know about you, but wearing a head scarf and practicing the five pillars is the absolute, positive, and any other word you can mention, minimum religious criteria.
2) Are Her and My Software Compatible? None of the online matrimonial services address personality issues which are essential for a lasting marriage. Emotional stability, sexual desire, personality agreeableness; why are not any of these aspects addressed?
Behold Progress! But Sadly not from the Muslims:
What makes a person really have a good marriage?
What is important to him or her?
Why are so many young Muslims single?
Why does practically every Muslim in America have at least one friend that is divorced?
“In 2000, backed by over 35 years of clinical and empirical research, Dr. Warren transformed the way singles are introduced online when he launched eHarmony - the first relationship service on the Web to use a scientific approach to match highly compatible singles.”
I decided to do some research into eHarmony. The service was created for one purpose, to lower the divorce rate in America. How, you ask? By matching people according to factors that contribute to healthy marriage. I checked it out and give a comparison to Muslim matrimonial sites. Needless to say we don’t even come close.
“At eHarmony our patented Compatibility Matching System ® narrows the field from millions of candidates to a highly select group of singles with whom you share deep levels of compatibility. Where other sites match on a picture and a paragraph, eHarmony matches you based on compatibility in the most important areas of life - like values, character, intellect, sense of humor, spiritual beliefs, passion, and up to 24 other dimensions.”
You would be hard pressed to tell an auntie that intimacy in marriage is a five out of seven in importance to you, or that being around someone who is unable to keep their cool is three out of five; but these are just two of the 436 questions used to rate you on Agreeableness, Openness, Emotional Stability, Conscientiousness, & Extraversion. It is quite impressive; check out a little sample of my ten page personality profile:
Conscientiousness:
Your approach toward your obligations is:
FLEXIBLEWords that describe you:
Spontaneous, Natural, Intuitive, Somewhat Disorganized, Perceptive, Unpredictable At Times“A General Description of How You Interact with Others
When there’s a job to be done, like most people you want to know what the goal is and when it’s to be completed. For you, that’s a start. Next you want to know what the plan is to get to the goal. So you lay out a plan, or at least the major points of a plan: “Organize the kitchen sometime this spring” or “Get the project at work done as soon as possible.” You don’t need an in-depth specification of every little detail; in fact you prefer not to work that way. You lay out your goals, develop a general plan, and then you get things done. “Negative Reactions Others May Have Toward You
“People may have problems with your style for two reasons. First, you don’t always follow the rules or go along with detailed plans, whether at work or at home. Those who need the details to stay on task just don’t quite understand how you are going to get it all done. Second, while you get things done - the way you veer off course at times and use your creativity may leave others wondering what went on. Some people find all this creativity and thinking “out-of-the-box” at odds with their desire to follow a clear course. And this causes not only some confusion it may also spark some anger toward you at times. Even you would likely admit that living and working with you takes someone who is able to let you do your thing at times. If someone is really tied to a rigid approach to how things should get done, there is clearly the potential for some conflict with you. “
Believer it or not, this was only a small sample of the entire description for conscientiousness. In the end, I was matched to two Muslim sisters whose personality traits seemed to fit quite nicely with mine. As a Muslim though, we have other criteria which are essential to an Islamic marriage i.e., things such as dress, prayer, staying at home, relationship with Allah, etc.
I suggest going online and taking the questionnaire. Having a ten-page personality profile for marriage is great to have and keep for reference. Share it with potential spouses or with your current spouse. Even just answering the questionnaire gave me some insight into what degree I consider certain factors important.
What our next step should be:
Needless to say, the Muslim matrimonial systems, whether personal or online, need drastic reform.
Firstly, we need to refine our criteria based upon deep levels of compatibility in order to create more and better lasting marriages insha Allah. Secondly, once people begin to see how successful and happy these relationships can be insha Allah, we can build on that success and further expand our networks to increase the likelihood of finding a candidate. Thirdly, friends, family & aunties need to sit down and evaluate each candidate on a deeper level. For once, try for meaningful matches based upon real personality, religion, lifestyle compatibility, not X & Y chromosomes.
Perhaps a Muslim with a flair for business and a heart of sincerity could set up an eHarmony style matrimonial service to give Muslims the extra ability to match on religious requirements needed (wears hijab, prays, etc.) and at the same time, match you based on how your personalities fit towards marriage.
Conversely, perhaps if enough Muslims write to eHarmony and ask for the few extra religious search criteria for Muslims, we can save ourselves the effort of re-inventing the wheel and build off of their foundation. Insha Allah, I will be the first to do so.
Your comments, more than anything, will insha Allah help us as a community to at least get this issue out in the open and on the forefront of needs to be addressed. Imams need to take place in this discussion. Some voices like Yaser Birjas have been very vocal on a national level on this topic, but all imams deal with marital issues on a day to day basis. Now it’s time for all of us as brothers and sister to join in the discussion.
According to Dr. Muhammad Sadiq, Muslim families have problem with the following issues: anger management & impotence (men), anxiety disorder (women & children), and depression & paranoia (men & women). Evaluating core traits such as Emotional Temperament, Social Style, Cognitive Mood and Physicality like eHarmony does, might be able to help us get rid of so many of the marital issues facing Muslims today.
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I’m LOVING the tone of this article! HAHA! Masha Allah.
I’m gunna have a thorough read later, insha Allah.
Can we get the original source for this?
Good post. I don’t have first-hand experience yet but I’m aware of the need for a farther-reaching system that takes into account factors that current methods don’t.
Without taking anything away from the gravity of issues discussed in this article I’d like to point out that the eHarmony matching system is flawed from a mathematical standpoint. When you’re dealing with distances in high-dimensional spaces, pretty much every point (person) is almost equidistant from the rest. Especially when the features are discretized. This is called the Curse of Dimensionality. The dimensions here are essentially the questions they ask. Even with 30 dimensions it’s extremely difficult to come to any meaningful conclusions. Counter-intuitive I know .. but that’s how it works out to be. The eHarmony folks may have added a heuristic here and there, but I’d be wary of attaching any significance to the profiles they say match versus the ones they don’t.
Wow, I never knew online matrimonial services were so big. I think these sort of analysis’ are a good thing, alhamdulillah. I doubt the Internet’s effectiveness in this whole affair, since it limits the interaction which is important in judging.
I remember on another blog I suggested a more networked approach similar to Tableeghi Jamaat. A small specific group of trained individuals skilled in these matters go out to different communities and set people up. In Kashmir, the Hindu Hejras (the cross-dressers/hermaphrodites/etc) are the ones that go between communities setting these up.
In the end I think it comes down to the fact that we need more Muslim “love scientists/teachers” that are more practical in their approach and have a greater appreciation for this sorta stuff.
The marriage system in North America isn’t great, but I wouldn’t say it is broken. I would say the most common problem is stated in your first paragraph: thinking the process would be easy as pie. The problem is, most people out there are good people, and everyone thinks it will be easy for them. This is a fallacy; it is rarely easy, even for the most “eligible” brothers and sisters.
The auntie network is not available to everyone. It is a great system when it works, but there are tonnes of people out there who are not privy to such networks. It also tends to artificially reduce the available pool by applying unnecessary filters and constraints. Going through the MSA network is a good approach for a lot of people, I think, but unfortunately there is a stigma attached to those people who have found their intended through university; people often assume the worst.
The other problem I see in the article is that the author expects far too much from on-line services They are there only to expand our horizons, to help us reach out to more people; I don’t think it should be the responsibility of some random programmers to develop complex matchmaking algorithms that are based purely on a set of numbers, nor would I want a machine telling me who I should or should not marry. People with a sincere intention to seek a spouse through an on-line service needs only to establish that communication initially through the service, and then use it only as a springboard for future interaction. On their own, these services should not be expected to tell us everything we need to do to determine if a brother or sister is a suitable partner.
The biggest problem with most on-line services, in my opinion, is our own perception of them. Many of us think of it as a “last resort”, thinking we are “above” such services. This is exactly why these services often don’t work, because everyone thinks they’re too good for them! So all these wonderful brothers and sisters avoid them until they feel they have no other option, delaying their marriage for several more years, and finally sign up when they are bitter and dejected and have reduced expectations. Honestly, we just need to swallow our pride and not look down upon these services if we are having difficulties of finding a spouse through other means; it is not the worst approach, and it isn’t necessarily for everyone - but it has it’s benefits, and insha-Allah can be the source of khair for people with sincere intentions.
May Allah make it easy for all brothers and sisters.
Asalaam Aleikum Waramatullah Wabarakatu,
Jazzakum Allah Khair for your comments. The whole point of this article was just to get people thinking.
Honestly, no system will ever beat the Tawfiq of Allah,. Yet for our part, as you said Dawud, we need to start looking at this problem from a more scientific and practical standpoint. Honestly, the current system leads to two issues 1) Brothes & Sisters waiting a long time and 2) Couples who were poorly matched and is leading them to issues of divorce or worse (abuse, etc.)
I think one other major issue is since Muslims must not display their ills, we are only seeing the surface as far as marital problems. Imams such as Yasir Birjas who get non-stop phone calls and email can probably attest to this, so can Muslim psychologists like Muhammad Sadiq. Honestly, I attended one of Dr. Sadiq’s lectures during the ICNA conference last year and the points I brought up in this essay are only a fraction of the issues he sees.
I would really insha Allah like to hear from the specialists on MuslimMatters such as Yaser Birjas, who deal with these issues on a national basis and are great students of knowledge.
dawud - this is the original source
it was a guest submission that was emailed to us
BrownSandokan
there’s a flaw in your argument. I think you can find it, if you look hard enough.
interesting…i assume this takes the POV of american-arabs??
i’m a bit confused..why use a marriage service and not find a suitable spouse yourself?
it works different in malaysia…i’m sure there are people who find spouses through agencies but
most of us find our soulmate/spouse/significant other during our studies and working days…
Sarah, You have a good point. This problem is probably just inherent to Muslim minorities living in the West.
Since in Malaysia the majority of the population is Muslim, everywhere you go –whether work or school — you will be running into other Muslims. Here, in the U.S. it is very rare to find Muslims in your workplace, etc.
Faraz, you also have several good points:
1) MSA network — I have a friend that was hitting himself over the head once and saying literally “I’m so stupid…what was I doing lowering my gaze and stuff. Everyone else got married in college and I was the only fool not too”. We said this in the context that once you leave college, your interaction with Muslims in general on a daily basis is reduced drastically.
2) Algorithms,e tc - Whether you think it or not, detailed personality tests really do work pretty well (as long as you answer honestly). Just take the test yourself and see. Many employers actually offer classes and workshops where personalty tests are taken and classes are offered to tailor your managament style to your unique personality. I don’t mean to say that these tests should be limited to online services (i just gave eHarmony as an example), but that even let’s say if you were to print out your 10 page profile and give it to a potential spouse, it gives you some ground to lay your feet on (at least it’s better than nothing, especially since most people only show their best face to you) Actually the REAL advantage that the personality profile and matching provide are not to match people based on their compatability, but to filter out real core trait issues that are detrimental to marriages e.g) Depression, paranioia, etc. You all have heard the stories from friends and families of “nice guys” who turned out to be controlling and abusive. A note: Advanced tests such as eHarmony’s I believe have ways of catching lies, due to the sheer amount of questions asked they can figure our consistency in answering.
A note: As a an analyst by occupation and a psychology minor who reads on the subject, I think the best method is a combination of all the factors you mentioned. But really, most importantly (I can’t stress this enough), praying to Allah for guidance and tawfeeq.
I think whats important to see this is a problem facing Muslims in many parts of the world, it seems gone are the days where when one was looking to get married it was quite a simple job of speaking to the aunty!
Many communities are facing this challenge due mainly to the breakdown in our communities, there are less and less of these aunties to go to, there are more men than women, there are many issues with who is praciticing and who is not which causes compatibility problems, also from alot of what i have seen cultural factors play a huge role.
I do not fully support these match making sites, i know much of the time it is often used by those who are looking more for ‘fun’ than a serious commitment, and it can be a very risky business, i know personally a friend who registered on one of these sites and within hours she had around 30 emails, one brother even quoted the line “im not lookign for a long distant relationship” ummmmmm………..isnt this supposed to be about marriage?
On the other hand i do also know of a success story where a couple met via one of these sites so there is some benefit but if this outweighs the harm i really dont know!
I do not know what the solution to the problem is but i do see that while our networks get smaller and avenues of meeting a partner more difficult this issue will continue to have an affect on us.
But also the issue of divorce is plaguing our community, more and more couples are getting divorced and further breaking down the society, which on the long run increases the number of people looking for marriage.
So the circle continues……..
i think we should forget the online services…frankly they suck…we should find our spouses from islamic seminars…1st ppl who are Talib ul Ilm are like minded and have the same values…islamicly to a level ofcourse… 2nd one can really find out about character of the other because the seminars last btwn 4 -6 days…i am not saying that a brother and sister just chat…rather a brothers blood sister or relative find out about a perspective sister or brother…last Islamic seminars and i should mention not conventions are a great way to scout as well…thus narrowing down the pool of brothers and sisters…just some thoughts
Desi aunties suck big time. My wife is looking for a spouse for her brother, and when she asks if the girl wears hijaab or religious, auntie starts giving long lecture on what is Islam, and hijaab is in heart and you guys are extremist and auntie becomes scholar suddenly.
As far as online matrimonial services are concerned, I think most muslims consider marriage to be very crucial life decision (as it should be), and using internet seems too much big of a risk. Unless it becomes tried and tested, and people start trusting it, many would stay away.
How do people in muslim countries get married? Can we have something that would enhance the traditional way and mix it with western ways.
What about the old-fashioned Islamic-centre matchmaking?
My father set up a matrimonial matchmaking thingy at our old Islamic centre… basically, people submit application forms (kinda like a resume) and have to provide contacts and references… the individuals themselves as well as their references are interviewed by my parents (dad takes the guys, mom takes the women), and then based on that they’ll match up who seems compatible or not… then they contact both sides, give the guy the woman’s wali’s number, and after that it’s up to them (although my parents are always around for advice and so on).
I think more and more the internet will become the resort of choice. The world is getting more connected all the time. And with all the problems that our families are facing, there will be more of a need to be pickier about your spouse. It does seem that there are so many distractions now that it is easier to veer off in a marriage if compatibility is not great. In my parents’ time, the spouses would sometimes not even see each other and have long-lasting marriages. Some of it of course was the divorce stigma, but in many cases, the distractions of TV/internet and all the other connectivities kept spouses happier with each other!
I think a Muslim eharmony would be the right step in the right direction. I also think we need more Imams like Mouse’s father. I agree that someone knowledgeable, who has experienced and tackled many family problems, can be a good match-maker. Unfortunately, many of our Imams don’t think this is as important, which is quite unfortunate.
MM (muslim matters) can easily do brand-extensions into MM (Muslim matrimonials)… we don’t even have to change our logo! Ok that was a joke, no bright ideas please. We can hardly keep up with the easy stuff, let alone marriage hookups
I should add that my family has tried to help set up people… but it always does seem that good guys can’t find good sisters, and good sisters can’t find good brothers… ironic!
We need a website called practicingmuslims.com for matrimonials - that’ll simplify things greatly.
Siraaj
wow muslims..we’re so complicated it’s hilarious
A lot of people seem to be concerned about the “risks” of the on-line route. But aren’t there risks in any approach? I mean, sure, some auntis may be helpful, but others might obsessively call your brother every single day for months in order to pester him repeatedly about your availability for her daughter who really is a very compatible sister with good Islamic values, but, unbeknown to you because of a vicious circle of lies and deceptions perpetuated by her family and accepted by your own, was already close to finalizing her marriage with a brother of another culture, and you are only being manipulated as a pawn in order to break that potential intercultural marriage??
Ahem… yeah, I like what Abu AnonyMouse is doing, but there are so many brothers and sisters facing these issues, and not nearly enough knowledgeable people to guide them through.
Salaam Alaikum
Very good points.
I really think AlMaghrib should start up a matrimonial service; like-minded brothers and sisters will find it easier to connect. But after talking with quite a few people about it, I do realize that the logistics are simply too difficult for AlMaghrib to take on at this stage. Rather, what should be done is that each Qabeelah can informally and at its own discretion set up a married couple as ‘marriage co-ordinators’ and then use them to act as halaal liaisons between interested parties.
It is really ironic (as Amad pointed out) that there always seems to be a brother or sister who is looking for a similar-minded partner, but the two never seem to hook up. As I travel across the country (and even across countries), I always get a request for ‘hook-ups’, but unfortunately I don’t have the resources to keep track and connect people. If there were a reliable agency or service, I would be able to forward the information to them.
I agree there is a serious problem. And I fear that the problem is getting worse and worse…
I’m interested to see other suggestions on this topic as well.
Yasir
The future of Marriage Issues:
Abu Ammar,
Actually, I was wondering if the problem would actually be getting better, based upon two principle I have taken from many of your lectures
i.e) Firstly, that the 2nd generation Muslims are the ones currently forming Muslim-American culture and secondly, that the future looks bright and that we should as believers remain optimistic.
I think our generations marriage woes are merely “paying the dues” for being in the fore-front of the 1st Generation kid raising experience. Perhaps we are just taking the brunt of the ill-effect set by parents not experience in Marital Issues they have never experiences before. Perhaps as young fathers such as yourself with knowledge in the deen and experience in national issues can help us young 2nd generation Muslims refine our parents’ experiment and fix the problems they ran into.
For instance, the average mother and father i have seen never worried that their son and daughter would have a hard time getting married or would actually have the nerve to not want to marry a cousin. They assumed from first conception that the same rules they were raised with and the same environment they relied on would happily and easily marry off their children. I think our generation is much wiser that this (wisdom is from experience). I would assume that the pious 2nd generation Muslim, generally much more informed of basic fiqh and understanding of deen would already have his eyes open for potential spouses.
I’ll give you a possible example, which may be a bit optimistic but by no means not realistic:
Imagine 20 years from now.: I am now pursuing my masters at Almaghrib University, my kids not subjected to public schools, my wife is active in the community. We have like minded friends of all different nationalities who also raised their children with proper understanding of aqeedah and fiqh. The community knows me, I know them and their children, we have been taking classes and doing dawah together for years. And finally,the status of people in or eyes is no longer being a doctor or engineer, but knowledge of the deen and characther.
Finally, I think we as small-time student of knowledge really need advice from those whom we like to follow as an example. I wonder ya Abu Ammar, how do you as a 2nd generation father think we should deal with out children in that rergard . My one fear for us as 2nd generation Muslims, pushing to much on our kids in order to correct the mistakes of our parents. From my experience, kids need air to breathe and just some guidance, the rest is with dua and tawfeek from Allah.
We are all learning, but as you say, as Mu’mins we should always be optimistic.
shaykh yasir,
if you and the other shaykh yaser agree to consult on fiqhi issues related to setting up such a site, myself and maybe a few other techies can set one up relatively quickly, insha’Allah.
Siraaj
Salaam all,
what an interesting post & discussion!
Something thats done in london quite a lot are ‘Muslim Matrimonial Events’ (no there not mass marriages or anything) but from my understanding brothers and sisters looking for a spouse take along a mahram and basically go through a ’speed dating’ kind of scenario, where you’re introduced to a number of potential candidates, you have a quick chat, see if your interested and, if so you take it further. Obviously there are rules in place so that everythings kosher - but these happen quite regularly Do you guys do this in the States?
Asian TV channels even have programmes were they try to match muslims up - usually the parents or friend of someone call through give a brief summary of the person and what their looking for. Their call is assigned a reference number, which viewer can use to get in touch with the TV channel and pursue it from there. This is quite a popular way of people from my parents generation who are looking for spouses for their children, as it works on a medium that they understand (telephone not internet) and in their own language.
Auntie Networks: I think with aunties - some are really good at & other not, so for those who are good at it, it may be worth hoaning in on their skills - some will probably have fixed quite a few successful couples together - so take whats good from their experiences, and avoid the pitfalls they’ve encountered.
On e-harmony - check out Myers-Briggs Type Indicators. These are a world renowned set of emotionl intelligence tests & indicators, which can be applied to most aspects of life (work, relationships, career choices) they highlight your strengths and what kind of people you would best suit - and their usually scarily accurate.
Really hope a website with some substance does come about. All the best.
great analysis - great post!! Masha’Allah!
I was discussing this very topic with a good friend of mine (who happens to be studying to become a family therapist/marriage counselor - who wants to serve Muslim family/couple’s needs iA).
This would be quite a noble undertaking for our imams, scholars, and also Muslim therapists, psychologists, and psychiatrists too!
The #1 Successful path to finding your future spouse:
MSA/YM/MAS Youth/[insert Islamic organization that is full of single youth] -> Facebook -> Instant Messaging -> Parents Meeting -> Engagment -> and the rest is history!
Note: The instant messaging part may be borderline fitna/haram.
Note 2: The -> (arrow) between Instant Messaging and Parents Meeting may be extremely hard and long for some couples or many couples depending on parents’ culture and ethnicity.
Note 3: Don’t get your emotions involved before its too late!
I think the best solution would be for married people to help their single friends to find a suitable spouse. That would keep things halal inshaAllah. Its extremely difficulty to find a righteous spouse (+financially stable) especially for those of us whose family is not religious or involved in community.=)
BTW, may Allah swt protect us all from internet matrimonial sites..SubhanAllah, who would even think that they work?
MR, I think all of those methods except Parents meeting and engagment could quite easily be border line fitnah/haram.
i know someone that got married on facebook
Peanut Butter - That’s very true, but I was saying the #1 successful way in terms of the number of marriages that came out of it, not necessarily the most halal way.
SubhanAllah!! Muslima.com asks for your horoscopic sign. What have we come to? thats too funny and sad all at the same time.
This is a HUGE problem. But unfortunately, the solution isn’t simple.
Part of what helped my fiancé and I test our personality compatibility was a questionnaire that I actually found on AlMaghrib’s Forums. It has 100 questions, and the topics range across the board. Check it out, it may be what you’re looking for, Rami - in terms of a practical questionnaire (fusing deen and dunya) at least.
You guys do know that the reason Tableeghis are so into getting guys to come out for Jamaat and their “Chillaz” (how do you spell that?) is because they are looking for husbands for their daughters right?
I know of a brother who has had 3-4 proposals while on jamaat and he’s only a little over 20…and he’s not super handsome or anything either. But yeah, TJs do have an undercover informal marriage thing going so there’s another option.
I personally feel that the Internet is…making people more stoic and anti-social and thus harming the marriage process. Not to say, when they meet online…but when you sit on a computer everyday–is there some sort of psychological effect that buids up?
Hmmm interesting…gunna have to study that more.
Now if we play off of what BrownSandokan is saying regarind eHarmony and their flaws…it does make sense. You cannot use a static set of questions and get the perfect results out of those. Surveys, questionnaires have limits no matter how detailed you make them. At some point it might even get interrogating and too personal. NOTHING replaces a proper conversation where the questions are smart and more catered to discovering the individual at hand.
For example, can you tell a story that is at times the most important feature to who YOU ARE on a survey or questionnaire? Obviously not !
In fact, compare the questionnaire that is on these websites to those essays that you fill out while applying for a scholarship or university program. Why isn’t that utilized?
Love you for the sake of Allah Br. Rami. I don’t even know you.
MashaAllah great article, but it only scratches the surface as far as difficulties of getting married in America. How about those brothers and (especially) sisters who are quiet in front of their parents about their wishes to get married? They might sneak onto the internet, giggle to a friend, but don’t dare say anything… I am sure they’ll be like 30 before they get married.
I am still single and this is what I have tried so far for the last year and a half.
1) The Auntie Network - This is like the super slow way of getting responses and is for the most part incompatible matches like the brother Rami said. My mom’s been doing this for 5 years and can only take credit for getting one (max 2) couple married.
2) Internet - I have NOT tried it too much and for me it’s kinda scary. I am sure for the sisters even more. My desi-ness / Muslim pride does not allow me to put myself up for the taking on some website, that people of whatever character might be visiting. This is something like brother Rami and Siraj said, needs a lot of work, but ironically it’s more successful than the Auntie network. Am I correct?
3) Married Friends - This has worked the best for me so far. Meaning it has brought the most leads and mostly compatible ones too. Downside is that your friends (actually your friends’ wives!) get burnt out and they will stop responding to you for like a month. I won’t mention who but his name starts with Sir… has been ignoring my emails for a while
Seriously, I think #3 has been best for me so far. They know the type of religiosity and thought I am looking for, but they give up too easily. One of my friends’ wife only told me one proposal so far, which I was hesitant about because of cultural differences and she totally gave up on me. Her husband says she “black listed” me. And for what crime? For nicely, softly, implicitly rejecting 1, yes O N E proposal. I am still a believer in #3.
Abdullah
MashaAllah I made this super duper marriage resume or bio data as we call it. It’s been getting good responses. If any brothers need help in creating one i can help them or simply send you mine as sample. Email a s y e d 4 0 - g m a i l
Do you guys remember the LOVE STORIES Thread on the AlMaghrib forums? It’s been deleted by the AlMaghrib moderators but that thing absolutely blew me away.
Amad or Abu Ammar–you guys think you can do some sweet-talking and dig that thread out if at all possible and post it on MM?
I know it had more hits than any other thread on the forums.
The stories in there were so beautiful but most were tragic. I remember one story that really touched me of a brother giving up his seat to a sister on the bus so she wouldn’t have to be around some strange people…as the story went on it became clear that the two were neighbors but never knew it (they were going the same route or something). And then they were going to get married and things all seemed bright as if Allah was willing this to happen for sure. And then the whole thing failed.
And that was the trend in the thread…the majority of the stories ended sadly with the two parting ways and never happening. And the stories that were happy love stories weren’t as “fairy tale”-like and more simple (some were but most weren’t)…
Anyways, my point with that is if we were to get something like that built up again, we would have a foundation on how MUSLIM marriages work (as oppose to just marriages) and build up data on it. Once we get more familiar with it we could spot the peculiarities, challenges and pick up on possible solutions and how successful marriages came about or successful match ups. Learn from the successes and failures.
Hindu Hejras???? Dawud … You have to write an article about that bro … that sounds quite interesting.
Also, I have an excellent unique method for a dignified and halal online Muslim Matrimonial service that I am working on. Unfortunately,, I am learning the programming and design expertise needed to establish such a service as I go. If anyone is interested in collaborating on something like this for the sake of ALLAH let me know.
Salam,
The problem with the Internet, even if you go through 100’s of questions to generate a personality/character profile, it can never give you an accurate projection of someone’s true personality.
AlMaghrib is now large enough to be considered a “social group”.
So, what every Qabeelah can do is, find several young couples from different cultural backgrounds. Single men will be send their info to the husbands, and, single women will send their info to the wives. All the couples will meet once a month for a dinner/tea, they all spread out all the “forms” and simply match the forms they have, and THEIR ROLE ENDS THERE.
It’s not that complicated. Just publicize it at an end of an AlMaghrib class, (and ofcourse clearing stating that AlMaghrib has nothing to do with it), and you should have your mailboxes filled.
If any couple is serious in doing this, you can actually go to the forums, and set up a simple poll to get some feedback.
“If you are interested in getting married, would you be willing to send your information to the Qabeelah Ameer/Ameerah?”
Yes.
No.
- B.
Nice article!
I’ve hooked up people in past…it was fun! But its started getting irritated when people act too ‘picky’, esp. brothers!
Moon, its funny how you said there are more men in your community. I know more sisters who need to get married.
I agree with Sh. YQ. I’d love to marry someone on the “same page” as me whether it’s Al Maghrib lectures, or civil rights organizations, or X. However, the more I see marriages fall apart, and come together as well… I can appreciate what Sh. Y. Birjas said at Love Notes:
He suggested always start looking in your community…then go out if can’t find nothing.
The more I reflected on it..it made sense (even though my community sucks). It’s kind of like the reason people marry their cousins (besides financial)..that you KNOW who they are. And the fam knows who they are. So the community would know etc etc. You don’t get some random dude or sis that might’ve flipped rocks back in the day or a sister that was wildin out, and it being hard to get a feel for who he/she is and upbringing, etc.
find a good woman.. and marry her daughter
Before I say anything else: can we please use “Muslim men” and “Muslim women” when speaking of matrimony, rather than “Brothers and Sisters”? The imam of a masjid I used to attend once said “Brothers must marry only sisters,” and my kids still laugh when they talk about it. The Islamic brotherhood / Ummah is well and good, but we don’t have to go into linguistic contortions to say we are one community.
As the parent of two kids in their middle teens, my spouse and I pray that they will find suitable partners when the time comes.
We tell our son and daughter that as they grow older, we will try to introduce them to suitable potential mates, but that the final decision will always be theirs. We also tell them that they are also free to look for themselves, but we would at least like to be consulted. And that is is quite normal to find some people of the opposite sex attractive, quite all right to be friendly with them, but that Islam lays limits on what is acceptable. No dating in the Western sense, no physical intimacy before marriage. It is OK for boys and girls to be in mixed groups.
We discuss the saying that if a man and a woman are alone together, Satan is the third person in the room. But we also discuss it in the context of life in the U.S., and whether it can apply at school and in the workplace.
Part of the problem for Muslims in the U.S. is that often the young people’s families and the “auntie network” try to look within the immediate community. Indians and Pakistanis try to find partners only within their narrow confines. Or, rather, their parents and social network do. And since American Muslims often have a social ghetto identity, parents usually socialize only with people of their linguistic / cultural identity. From what I have seen, the situation is similar for people with origins in the Arab world.
Parents forget that they come from Hyderabad / Delhi / Lucknow / Karachi / Lahore, Cairo, Jakarta, not their kids. The children are born and brought up in the U.S., or raised here. To expect them to have the sensibilities / prejudices / attitudes of the old country is unfair to the kids, and very limiting to their matrimonial prospects.
Other than the MSAs or some social circles, there is little opportunity for young Muslim men and women to meet. They spend far more time meeting non-Muslims, and it is a wonder more of them are not marrying outside the community. To add to their discomfort level, any time a Muslim boy and girl speak to each other, no matter how casually, tongues wag wildly.
Marriage is an honorable institution in Islam. If a young couple are interested in marrying each other, the elders should rejoice, but do not always. Often it is because the elders wanted more control, or more of a say, in the arrangement. Even in this day and age, it is still upsetting for some parents / communities when a girl states a desire to marry a particular boy.
And yet we teach kids in Sunday school that Khadija sent a proposal to Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him), as did other women in his lifetime.
Without meeting at least a few times, there is no way the young people will know if there is going to be some compatibility. Overt religiosity is not a guarantee of compatibility - you cannot pair off a beard and a hijab and expect a match made in heaven. Nor would I consider such overt symbols to be guarantors of modesty or decency. All hijabis are not paragons of virtue, and plenty of non-hijabis are. Not all men with a beard/mustache are decent ones, and plenty of clean-shaven men are.
My spouse and I watch young Muslims of marriageable age and learn and hope to pass on these observations to our kids. We hope there are enough positive examples to which we can point as our kids grow up so they, too, can make the right choices when the time comes.
can we please stop using the term “hook-up” …
seriously.
i like this article for the sole reason that it highlights how stupid desi aunties are. dammit they suck!
Abu Ameerah,
I second that! A “hook up” in its crudest definition is casual sex with no commitment. That meaning got extensive media coverage a year or so ago. Even in its best social definition, it means casual courtship, usually of a short duration.
It is a short stretch from “hook up’” to “hooker.”
Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,
Mir, were you born/raised in the U.S. ? You made a lot of good points from the perspective of a parent.
I really want to hear some cases of 2nd Generation Muslims and how they decide to raise their kids. More importantly, we need to hear and study the effects of that method on their children.
Umm Reem, I think you misunderstood me, the situation here is the same as you mention with it being more sisters than brothers I was just giving the example from the matrimonial site the brothers seem more interested in ‘fun’ than marriage!
With regards to the aunty projects I do know of one aunty who does this sort of work and from speaking with her I know that it seems like a losing battle, she has triple the amount of sisters on her ‘books’ than brothers but then the demands she gets from both sides of what they want their partners to have/not have are quite amazing.
As for the speed-dating mentioned, then believe me that’s exactly what it is literally everyone in a room all chatting each other up – I know of a event like that and was pretty amazing to hear Muslims behave like that, the sad part was many of the elders there seemed to act as if this was all fine just because it was supposed to be for marriage purposes. Although I have heard funny stories, out of the whole event there were five sisters with hijab on, the organisers sat all of them on one table and when she did bring over a brother for a ‘chat’ she asked him very loudly in front of everyone “you like hijab/ the scarf?” LOL!!!! Needless to say he could have died of embarrassment!
The Al Maghrib plan sounds like it could be a good idea but I feel that although the Ameers and Ameerahs can act as the contact point for their qabeelah they are not in some cases old/wise/experienced enough to be match making couples. Some of them are not even married themselves so maybe the idea is good but needs serious thought.
hmmm…Matrimony at Almaghrib…
We would probably see class sizes double or triple =)
when we hosted the almaghrib love notes class, everyone kept asking if there were going to be matrimonials
MashaAllah Sh. Yasir, I was married exactly through the unofficial AlMaghrib network. Basically, some sister from the Virginia qabeelah set up a Yahoo Group for other like-minded single Muslims (almost all AlMaghrib students). Their names would be hidden, and no pictures involved, but just one list of brothers’ bios, and one list of sisters’ bios… of course the bios included many things that gave us an idea of where the person stood deen-wise. Sisters were required to have a wali, or at least 3rd party elder type person working with them, in order to join the list. If you found an interesting bio, you emailed the moderator, saying, “Im interested in Sister 015″ (or whatever the bio number was…). The moderator then emailed Sister 015 and her wali ( or mother/elder), saying “brother 004 has expressed interest, let me know if you are interested”… then if she reflected interest, the brother would get the contact info for the sister’s wali, and the sister’s wali would get the brother’s contact info. From there, it was up to the individuals to set up communications, get pictures, etc. Walhamdulillah, I met my wife through this email list… it still exists now, but is kinda dying out since the participants aren’t using it (also, i believe the moderator has changed, and it is now a google group, instead of a yahoo group).
For me, after I was put in contact with my wife, there were some discussions between her mother and I over email, then we set up meetings between me and her whole family (she happened to be living only a few neighboring states away)… and mashaAllah, everything seemed to fit together quite nicely… so after a total of 6-7 months from initial contact, we were officially engaged, then married a month later, walHamdulillah.
Sh. Yasir hit the nail on the head… unofficial AlMaghirb type brother/sister networks (as opposed to auntie networks) DO work, and they work VERY WELL… but it needs some dedicated people to make it work inshaAllah.
Btw, the marriage list I was talking about can be accessed by emailing chapter.rep@gmail.com
Rami, Walaikum salam warahmatallahi wa barakatu.
I’m from India, left in my mid-20s, lived and worked in the United Arab Emirates and Canada before moving to the U.S 12 years ago.
My siblings and I went to a Christian-run (Episcopal) school that still had a few people of British and Australian heritage. I attended Bible class at school and top-scored in the exam. My parents were never worried whether that would make us less Muslim; a tutor would come home every day to teach us to read the Quran. My understanding improved far more later by reading the Quran on my own, in English, than it ever did with with the tutor. Who, incidentally, would kept smacking me on the knuckles when I mispronounced a word and told me I must read and obey and never ask questions.
As you say, the proof of any method is in how the next generation enters their 20s and 30s, or age of marriage, and that will take time to unfold. It is a continuous process, with one generation overlapping the next.
A few quick observations / generalizations.
The first generation, at least from India, came between mid-1960s and early 1970s. They was so enamored of becoming “American” that they moved away from their religious and cultural roots. It was not solely their fault; they were few in number. Often, they came from the “elite” who left India to acquire a higher education, and they brought along their cultural and social baggage. Their offspring became known, a little contemptuously, as ABCDs - American born confused desis. Their children, now in their 30s, faced the greatest difficulties in finding partners; many more are single in that age group than in later groups.
The immigrants who followed in the 1980s and later were often relatives of the first-comers, and may or may not have aimed for a higher education. They saw what was happening with the older children, and to guard against that many of them became more conservative and perhaps swung to the other extreme. That is when the MSAs and Islamic centers started becoming very important. Sunday school became a must.
It is the children of this second wave that is now of marriageable age, and this is where the beards and hijabs have become more common. Indian and Pakistani Muslims men often had mustaches and some grew beards - it was a “male” thing; it became more tied to the sunnah in the U.S. than it ever was in the old country. Women, similarly, would often drape their duppatas over their heads in the presence of elders, or when reading the Quran, and tie them in the form of a hijab only during prayers.
In the old country, it was the parents who undertook the entire process of selecting a spouse for their kids, and often the kids had to go along - a process that to me is not exactly Islamic. Kids there were taught to obey elders and not question their judgment. As long as everyone followed the script, things worked.
Here, our kids are taught to question everything, and must be answered with logic. “I am your parent and I know best” doesn’t work best. In all honesty, we teach our kids to treat elders with respect, but also that being older is no guarantee of being wiser. And that applies often to Sunday school teachers / imams from the old country who cannot communicate with kids growing up here.
So if a kid asks “Is is OK for me to fall in love?” you have to answer honestly that yes, it is. If they ask, tell them that it is permitted for Muslim men to marry Christian and Jewish women, but explain the problems they could encounter later should the woman become more attached to her faith after they have kids.
Parents may be of Indian / Pakistani / Arab origin, but are their kids? My children are not “Indian” by virtue of having visited India a few times. Does it really matter if they marry kids whose parents came from Jakarta or Damascus? Yes, my comfort level might be greater if the parents of their spouses came from a background similar to mine. But it is they who will marry, not me.
At all times, we pray that our children will stay on the straight path, and that Allah will continue to guide them.
Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,
Mir,
Sh. Yasir Qadhi (one of the resident specialists on this site) gave some excellent lectures on this regard. The best one was at Ilmfest I think, which the video should come out soon insha Allah. In that speech he talked about the history of the immigration waves of Mulims in America, from the first slaves to be brought here to the mass immigrations of the 70’s. He also talks about the natural trend which culture generations tends to follow and how it relates to our future.
You can go to Tayybah dot com and see another very good lecture of his in this regard entitled “Muslims in the West: Where are we Goingi”
br. mir, jazakallahu khayr, thats some good insight about back home vs. now
and rami - muslims in the west where are we going is on MM, and was originally posted here
Ibnabeeomar, sorry didn’t realize
Ahmed, wow that is an amazing project set up by the virginia qabeelah.
Siraj, Ahmed, Manoffewwords, this is a great opportunity for you guys to work together build something professional out of this, since you all mentioned interest in it.
What would be the first step, setup the group/website, or find willing volunteers on the almaghrib forums.
the “like minded” individuals reminds me of an existing matrimonial service for a well known organization with its own magazine. the matrimonials inside the back cover are well known to many and are usually of the following variety,
28/f urdu speaking, professional family, seeking sunni urdu speaking husband for their daughter, skinny, pretty, does not wear hijab, she is currently doing medical residency after finishing her law degree. man must be professional, preferably doctor, and preferably hyderabadi. please email biodata to seekingdoctorprinceinshiningarmor@hotmail.com
One more point that came to mind is that for the brothers it’s good to keep an eye on the mother of the potential wife. If you get along with the mother than it’s an indicator that you’ll get along well with the girl.
OK I know too much about marriage for a single brother. :S
Amad, do you think you can do a follow-up post on this collecting all the beneficial pieces of info–the stories etc? Kinda similar to the one about Muslim guys and porn addiction? That way, even if a matrimonial thing doesn’t happen via Ahmad, Siraaj, and ManofFewWords–we still have a bit of information..
…but I have a feeling the comments on this post will continue to grow…I see that people are already posting email addresses and biodatas…
Mohabbaht Zindabad!
This is very interesting and an issue that many organizations have been trying to tackle.
There are many ways for Muslims to find spouses and different things work for different people and I don’t see anything wrong with diversifying the pool of approaches to marriage by adding the internet approach (if done properly of course). It could very similar to what AnonyMouse’s community did except through the internet. There should be applications, references, background checks, and someone overseeing the whole process.
Many people are having a very hard time finding spouses and I think the youth need to start helping themselves. Though there is a lot of stigma attached to this approach, I think if it is done properly, within a generation or two, it will start to diminish and become acceptable.
And by the way, as a married person, I must say it is far more difficult matching people up than it seems. And we don’t want to fall in the same trap as the aunties and think along the lines of “He’s a boy, she’s a girl, perfect match!”
And lastly, just to make a general comment on some other comments, just people are similar minded in the deen does not mean they are compatible. There are way more factors to consider and to leave it at that is not a good approach at all.
May Allah grant everyone the spouses they seek. Ameen.
I don’t think an Al-Maghrib branded matrimonial service would be a good idea. There is already a very “cliquey” perception with Al-Maghrib students, and branding such a service as an Al-Maghrib thing will only reinforce that feeling. Something dedicated more for “practicing Muslims” certainly would be helpful, but it would have to recognize that not all practicing Muslims find it necessary to register in double-weekend courses every few months.
Someone mentioned Myers-Brigg - that really is a very good test, with very useful results. A matrimonial service that used the Myers-Brigg personality indicator score might be a good idea.
Assalamualaikum
I’m not married, so you can disregard my opinion on this lol, but apart from the necessary religious requirements that we all seek in our spouses inshAllah, for the other things, maybe we’re trying too hard to look for something that isn’t there?
Not every man/woman out there is perfect (once again I’m talking about the other non-deen stuff), maybe it’s just that we’re constantly chasing perfection (the way we see it), like we’ve made up the ideal spouse in our head and want nothing else apart from that?
br Ibnabeeomar,
Your ad sounds like one of those coming from …..Horizons magazine which my husband usually joked about in his classes on marriage. Don’t worry, you’ll never hear from anyone. However your point is the reality of today’s matrimonial ads and try contrast this with below:
Let me relate a true story, told by one of the students of Sheikh Ibn Baz (Rahimullah).
One day, the Sheikh was reading out loud a question from one of his female students which read something like this:
“Please ask any of your students if any of them would be interested in marrying me. I am a student of such and such and I am at such an age and am ready for marriage. The Mahr is only ONE Saudi Riyal and my father is here today to do the nikah”
(The student who related the story is actually our own dear Sheikh AA). He said basically all single brothers’ hands were up including himself.
Then Sheikh Ibn Baz asked: “Who did Fajr in Jama’ah in the Masjid every morning, never missing…?” And a lot of hands went down drastically with only a few left.
Then he asked: “Who fast Mondays and Thursdays?” a few more hands went down.
Then he asked: “Who did Tahajjud last night? And one hand remained and the Sheikh asked if he can afford to keep a wife. The answer was yes and he married that female student for only ONE Saudi Riyal (In Saudi standard, this is a real bargain).
May be we should follow that example. Allah knows best
Masha Allah! excellent article and perfect timing that I found this.
Why is it a perfect timing ?
I have been approached by many sisters and few brothers to help them to find a soulmate and masha Allah, they are all good, but they are still singles struggling to find.
And I have been thinking for a while to create a product that serves muslims of North America. Alhamdulilah! The work has just started and iam planning to launch it before ramadan insha Allah.
SubhanaAllah, when I was reading this article, it just reflected my mind and the ideas I had.
A friend of mine, just asked me if I wrote this article as the idea, discussion presented in this artilce was similar to what I had discussed.
In one of our LOG class, I prepared a dessert to sh.Yasir Qadhi and requested him to make dua for single sisters and brothers in our community. (I hope he made dua) He mentioned that we have to come up with an idea/service to tackle this top most issue for muslims in NA.
Insha Allah I hope and pray that this project will turn out to be a solution if not atleast one of the solution of this major issue.
Alhamdulilah! I am happy that I am able to cover the major issues in this product just by my observation and various studies. But all your feedback would really help to fine tune this insha Allah as the product is just in its design stage.
I created a survey on this topic. If you could all fill out this survey, that would be really helpful insha Allah in the design of this product.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=xI3fqFXTt5oWnVvifwxPbw_3d_3d
Jazak Allah Khair
-Fouzia
salam… lot of good energy here
Ages ago, I registered muslimspouse.com but it has lingered for a long time…redirected to muslimmatters.org
So, we even have a domain name
I think we will try to set up an email list or something to try to get together the people who have the energy and time for this effort as well as skill sets needed… and then go from there…
If you are interested and KNOW that you have time available to commit and can contribute something, then just say it so here and be sure to give your correct email address (don’t type it here, we can see it in the backend)
w/s
I was telling Abu AnonyMouse about this post and the huge response to it… his advice was that it’s possible to set up a system, but that it requires MAJOR dedication and an understanding about what a huge responsibility it is… hey Amad, if you do try to set up the email list or whatever and get the ball rolling, maybe I could get my dad to give you some tips on it (as I mentioned before, he’s got quite a bit of experience in the field, although ironically had nothing to do with my own match! :D).
Interesting post, and the responses are really insightful. I like Amad’s suggestion of posting emails if anyone feels they can dedicate time and energy needed for something like this. Indeed it would be a big project, but not impossible if started by dedicated individuals with ideas of how to get it running.
I think some people can definitely relate to what Rami said:
“the average mother and father i have seen never worried that their son and daughter would have a hard time getting married or would actually have the nerve to not want to marry a cousin. They assumed from first conception that the same rules they were raised with and the same environment they relied on would happily and easily marry off their children. I think our generation is much wiser that this (wisdom is from experience). I would assume that the pious 2nd generation Muslim, generally much more informed of basic fiqh and understanding of deen would already have his eyes open for potential spouses”
I agree that the second generation of Muslims are probably more open to ways of finding potential spouses, but what suggestions do you guys have for people whose families have a lot of expectations from them concerning what type of person they should marry (according to cultural standards). Talking about these issues with parents always helps to level out the playing field, but I know some parents would simply laugh at the idea of doing a 10 pg profile of yourself for future reference (which I think is a great idea). Some would say, “What for? You’re Muslim, he’s Muslim, you both like hummus, that’s it.” I’m especially having a hard time trying to reconcile my views of finding a potential spouse with that of my parents, so any suggestions you have from experience would be greatly appreciated.
My brother runs one of the major matrimonial websites in the Middle East (Qiran.com), and it really is a huge amount of work to maintain these things. Him and his colleagues manually verify each profile they get to ensure that there’s no fraud going on, and of course it’s a lot of work managing the databases and servers to support a site with such a large userbase (they have over a million members). I would heed Abu AnonyMouse’s advice, recognizing that it really does require major dedication and care, lest it get out of hand or become useless.
Asaalam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,
Sr. Fouzia,
That’s a really good survey!
Faraz, I actually KNOW of someone who was defrauded at Qiran. I am sure the Qiran folks, like your brother, are trying their best and I can understand how it is almost impossible to control.
What I am hearing here is the need for a more limited system with more personal involvement of people who have experience and knowledge– not like a dating site, which almost all the online matrimonials have become. Think of a system which limits participants and has a revolving door so that only so many can be served properly. Furthermore, think of no direct connectivity between parties but rather a match-making system which employs both psychological techniques (like Briggs-Myers or other) as well as human involvement. Thus, the participant is only informed of “matches”, and does not have open access to other participants. And then you would have further safeguards, such as the need for wali, limiting it to North America, etc. Focus on quality and not quantity.
I think when the motive shifts from money to ajar, then that has a better chance of working.
Sr. Fouzia, when you are done with the survey, please email us… perhaps we can share the results in a post…
Yep, limiting it seems the way to go - perhaps keep it just within the country, even, as opposed to the whole of North America? Also, what about employing the use of trustworthy imaams, who may know such-and-such a brother or is the wali of such-and-such a sister, but also knows that within their own community there’s no one who’s “right” for them (in terms of Deen, compatibility, family issues, etc.)
Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,
Amad,
In that regard, another point with eHarmony that we can learn from is that fact that it takes anywhere from 30min - 1 hour to actually fill out the 436 questionnaire. I mean, it was a site that the founder set up for people who were dedicated to getting married, not dating; so filling out such a long and detailed profile of yourself shows dedication and also gives you quality rather than quantity.
They also have “guided meeting”, where you don’t communicate directly but through a series of steps which eventually get you to direct talking if you find you guys match, and they also verify ID’s etc. . ie) in the Muslim case the ‘guided meeting’ would involve first contacting the wali, etc.
Ohh, another note
A mistake made by all the matrimonial sites is BROWSING.
On eHarmony for instance you are asked what criteria is important to YOU, not what criteria you are looking for in THEM.
e.g) You would choose on a scale from 1 to 7 how important religiosity is to you (they used church attendance). You are then matched to someone who met those criteria from the questions you had to answer which rated religiosity.
The same applies for looks, race, etc. Each person fills out questions about a certain aspect and are also asked how important that aspect is in a potential spouse.
Amad bhai, I can contribute my profile to start that matrimonial service.
interesting discussion.
Sure Hassan.
Does your wife read MM? If yes, then I hope you have a nice sofa to sleep on, and don’t forget to pick up food on the way.
Someone once said check off all the qualities you want in the spouse but put religion in the end. If they have all the qualities you want but no religion then look for someone better. But if they have all the qualities you want including religion then marry that person. That way you are not sacrificing one thing over another.
Assalamu Alaikum everyone,
My first impression of the article was that we are trying to move in the wrong direction with respect to finding spouses. The reason I say this is that Islam is over 1400 years old and for all these years, we have used the family and friends-system of meeting people. Muslims in the US are not the first Muslims to be a minority in a non-Muslim country. So why should we all of a sudden change gears and meet potentials via internet on our OWN? Since when does a young Muslim girl (or young man) go about on her own deciding that she shall meet or not meet someone without a father, mother, cousin, sister, or close friend knowing (or knowing of) the other person? I think we have to be careful when we get excited because 2 Muslims have matching profiles according to a website and then jump into an online “relationship”. Most of which, do not work out. Not saying that it never happens.
You see, having the same values, religious understanding and practices, and akhlaq should be enough of a commonality to want to meet someone for the first time, not what we like to do for fun. Its not about marrying someone who matches another exactly. Marriage is about finding someone who balances you, someone whom you are willing to make sacrifices for and who will in turn sacrifice for you. I think seeing so much divorce and uncommitted people has made us the same way. I think that so many Muslims who have never been in a relationship have misconceptions of the perfect mate from the media; tv and fairy tales we grew up loving. Unrealistic expectations are keeping us from committing and inexperience and immaturity are keeping some from staying married. Of course soo many other issues come up with getting and remaining married but, I would have to go on for pages.
So my point is that we shouldn’t expect to have a list of things we want in a spouse and then go scavenger hunting for that only one. I think a good Muslim American boy can potentially marry many different Muslim American girls (not all at once!) and can potentially lead a happy, spiritual life worshipping Allah with a healthy, loving family. If that one can be found online in a manner that will not drive either one crazy and does not subject singles to numerous unnecessary “online dates” so be it. But I have found that reality is what we can really count on.
Correction:
The Sheikh I mentioned in the story was NOT Sheikh Ibn Baz. In fact he’s Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Salleh al Uthaymeen. I was corrected yesteday by my Sheikh.
May Allah forgive me.
as-salam alaykum,
some friends and i have worked on this issue for several months, and would be happy to advise anyone (brother amad, sister fowzia or anyone else). may Allah reward you for raising this important issue, brother rami.
as-salam alaykum,
some friends and i have worked on this issue for several months, and would be happy to advise anyone (brother amad, sister fowzia or anyone else). may Allah reward you for raising this important issue, brother rami.
WA alaikum Salaam,
JAzak Allah Khair br.Rami for your help and advice. Whats your contact email ?
Please let me know.
-Fouzia
MM, can you send Sr Fouzia my email address?
Sr. Fouzia, please cc your husband or another mahram on the emails insha Allah.
-Rami