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	<title>Comments on: Authority of Sunnah Part-3: Status of Sahaba (Companions)</title>
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	<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/</link>
	<description>Discourses in the Intellectual Traditions, Political Situation, and Social Ethics of Muslim Life</description>
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		<title>By: Authority of Sunnah Part-4: Intellect and Beyond! &#124; MuslimMatters.org</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-28044</link>
		<dc:creator>Authority of Sunnah Part-4: Intellect and Beyond! &#124; MuslimMatters.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Sunnah  Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3  | Part [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Authority of Sunnah Part-1: Hadith=Revelation &#124; MuslimMatters.org</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-28033</link>
		<dc:creator>Authority of Sunnah Part-1: Hadith=Revelation &#124; MuslimMatters.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 00:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-28033</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Sunnah  Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3  | Part [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joyhamza</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-16536</link>
		<dc:creator>Joyhamza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-16536</guid>
		<description>excellent post.  Jazaakillahu khairaan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent post.  Jazaakillahu khairaan</p>
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		<title>By: Umm Reem</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-16526</link>
		<dc:creator>Umm Reem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-16526</guid>
		<description>Br. Charles: To add to Sh. Haitam&#039;s response, you should realize that you will even find these &quot;contradictions&quot; (which are not really contradictions) even in Quranic verses. 

For instance if someone reads Quran and is not familiar with &#039;nasikh/manshookh&#039; then he will be very confused with the verses where khamr (alcohol) is not entirely forbidden but only at the time of prayer!

The rules that apply to understand the Quran are also same for understanding ahadeeth.

One subject that I would suggest you should study is &quot;Usul-ul-Fiqh&quot;. It really helped me. It explains in detail the whole concept of general vs. specific, or absolute &amp; qualified (mutlaq muqayyad) etc. and how to recognize them in text etc. It helped me understand that there is not &quot;contradiction&quot; in text, both Quran and ahadeeth, rather the contradiction is in our understanding. 
Once we become familiar (and trust me it wouldn&#039;t need a 10 years of study, inshaAllah) with usul-ul-fiqh then those &quot;contradictions&quot; resolve very easily inshaAllah.

If you decide to take this class, i strongly suggest that you take it onsite and not online because you would need a teacher to explain .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Br. Charles: To add to Sh. Haitam&#8217;s response, you should realize that you will even find these &#8220;contradictions&#8221; (which are not really contradictions) even in Quranic verses. </p>
<p>For instance if someone reads Quran and is not familiar with &#8216;nasikh/manshookh&#8217; then he will be very confused with the verses where khamr (alcohol) is not entirely forbidden but only at the time of prayer!</p>
<p>The rules that apply to understand the Quran are also same for understanding ahadeeth.</p>
<p>One subject that I would suggest you should study is &#8220;Usul-ul-Fiqh&#8221;. It really helped me. It explains in detail the whole concept of general vs. specific, or absolute &amp; qualified (mutlaq muqayyad) etc. and how to recognize them in text etc. It helped me understand that there is not &#8220;contradiction&#8221; in text, both Quran and ahadeeth, rather the contradiction is in our understanding.<br />
Once we become familiar (and trust me it wouldn&#8217;t need a 10 years of study, inshaAllah) with usul-ul-fiqh then those &#8220;contradictions&#8221; resolve very easily inshaAllah.</p>
<p>If you decide to take this class, i strongly suggest that you take it onsite and not online because you would need a teacher to explain .</p>
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		<title>By: Amad</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-16522</link>
		<dc:creator>Amad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-16522</guid>
		<description>Br. Charles, here is Sh. Haitham&#039;s response. If you would like to contact him for more help, then email us at info at muslimmatters //dot org, and we&#039;ll put you in touch with him.

- There is no contradiction between the two hadeeths which brother Charles sited.  Sometimes, the Prophet ASWS would wash the a part once, others twice and others three times.  This is abundant in the Sunnah. 

- The Sunnah contains no contradictions.  After being a Hadeeth scholar for many decades, Imam ibn Khuzaymah said: I do not know of two contradicting Hadeeths which are authentic.  If anyone finds such Hadeeths, let him present them to me so that I demonstrate to him that they are reconcilable.

Ibn Khuzaimah (d. 311 H) presented this challenge at a time when enemies of the Sunnah were abundant, and the eagerness to present such a contradiction was high.  Nevertheless, no one was able to present him with two contradicting authentic Hadeeths.

- Since brother Charles recognizes his limitations, I suggest that he begin his 10 year journey ASAP.  May Allah SWT aid and guide him.  If he has any more concerns he is welcome to call or email me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Br. Charles, here is Sh. Haitham&#8217;s response. If you would like to contact him for more help, then email us at info at muslimmatters //dot org, and we&#8217;ll put you in touch with him.</p>
<p>- There is no contradiction between the two hadeeths which brother Charles sited.  Sometimes, the Prophet ASWS would wash the a part once, others twice and others three times.  This is abundant in the Sunnah. </p>
<p>- The Sunnah contains no contradictions.  After being a Hadeeth scholar for many decades, Imam ibn Khuzaymah said: I do not know of two contradicting Hadeeths which are authentic.  If anyone finds such Hadeeths, let him present them to me so that I demonstrate to him that they are reconcilable.</p>
<p>Ibn Khuzaimah (d. 311 H) presented this challenge at a time when enemies of the Sunnah were abundant, and the eagerness to present such a contradiction was high.  Nevertheless, no one was able to present him with two contradicting authentic Hadeeths.</p>
<p>- Since brother Charles recognizes his limitations, I suggest that he begin his 10 year journey ASAP.  May Allah SWT aid and guide him.  If he has any more concerns he is welcome to call or email me.</p>
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		<title>By: Manas Shaikh</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-16508</link>
		<dc:creator>Manas Shaikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 08:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-16508</guid>
		<description>As Salamu Alaikum

The companions really were very inspired and inspiring people. Allah (SWT) was pleased with them so much, that He even praised them in the Qur&#039;an. An amazing feat!

And indeed, even the prophet (SAW) said that they were the best of people in a Hadith mentioned in the post.

I agree that efforts to malign and revile the companions are deplorable. Some unfair allegations have been made against them.

Excellent they were, but they were not perfect. Nobody is perfect except Allah (SWT). The greatness of the sahaba was in their love and obedience to Allah (SWT), and in their sincere struggle (and success over many) against shortcomings

However, when I first read this post, out of context (I have not read the blog posts you refer to- Allah has saved me), it gave me the impression that this article is an attack on anyone who acknowledges that the Sahaba were fallible human beings, like us; that they were better- best actually- but not infallible.

I was a bit disappointed; but then, with some help, I realized where you are coming from. It indeed pains to see the companions reviled.

These are difficult times. People are reviling against the Sahaba(R), the Prophet (SAW) and even Allah (SWT)!

We must remain patient, and hold anger. If we patiently persevere, all these will go away, Insha&#039;Allah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Salamu Alaikum</p>
<p>The companions really were very inspired and inspiring people. Allah (SWT) was pleased with them so much, that He even praised them in the Qur&#8217;an. An amazing feat!</p>
<p>And indeed, even the prophet (SAW) said that they were the best of people in a Hadith mentioned in the post.</p>
<p>I agree that efforts to malign and revile the companions are deplorable. Some unfair allegations have been made against them.</p>
<p>Excellent they were, but they were not perfect. Nobody is perfect except Allah (SWT). The greatness of the sahaba was in their love and obedience to Allah (SWT), and in their sincere struggle (and success over many) against shortcomings</p>
<p>However, when I first read this post, out of context (I have not read the blog posts you refer to- Allah has saved me), it gave me the impression that this article is an attack on anyone who acknowledges that the Sahaba were fallible human beings, like us; that they were better- best actually- but not infallible.</p>
<p>I was a bit disappointed; but then, with some help, I realized where you are coming from. It indeed pains to see the companions reviled.</p>
<p>These are difficult times. People are reviling against the Sahaba(R), the Prophet (SAW) and even Allah (SWT)!</p>
<p>We must remain patient, and hold anger. If we patiently persevere, all these will go away, Insha&#8217;Allah.</p>
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		<title>By: Umm Reem</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-16421</link>
		<dc:creator>Umm Reem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 16:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-16421</guid>
		<description>Br. Charles, these different narrations of abulition and of other things show the number of ways one action can be performed.
It is not showing any contradiction, just different ways i.e. we can wash our limbs once, or twice or even thrice.
Just like there are different ways of performing witr etc.

As for the memory, in all honesty I don&#039;t think we can fully grasp the strength of their memory. They were simple people and their minds were not tempered with television, radio, movies, or even books....completely empty brains and that&#039;s why they used to remember what they used to see and hear. It makes a huge difference...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Br. Charles, these different narrations of abulition and of other things show the number of ways one action can be performed.<br />
It is not showing any contradiction, just different ways i.e. we can wash our limbs once, or twice or even thrice.<br />
Just like there are different ways of performing witr etc.</p>
<p>As for the memory, in all honesty I don&#8217;t think we can fully grasp the strength of their memory. They were simple people and their minds were not tempered with television, radio, movies, or even books&#8230;.completely empty brains and that&#8217;s why they used to remember what they used to see and hear. It makes a huge difference&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-16387</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 14:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-16387</guid>
		<description>Give my thanks to Sh. Haitham for his response. I suppose my problem remains with the preservation of the Sunnah. That&#039;s why the differing hadith from Abu Hurairah caught my eye. But they are not the only ones. Here are two hadiths from Bukhari:

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 159:
Narrated Ibn &#039;Abbas:
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.


Volume 1, Book 4, Number 160:
Narrated &#039;Abdullah bin Zaid:
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.

It would be helpful to know the Arabic, but &quot;only once&quot; never equals &quot;twice&quot; in English. Yet both are authentic hadith. 

The problem with preservation of hadiths  is the limitations on preservation of memory. It can&#039;t be done over centuries without error. Bartlett, a psychologist was perhaps the first to show this. From Wikipedia:

&lt;i&gt;One of his most famous studies cast considerable light on the formation of memory. He composed a short fable called The War of the Ghosts, which comprised a sequence of events which were ostensibly logical but subtly illogical, and there were several discreet non-sequiturs. He would recite this story to subjects, then later (sometimes much later) ask them to recall as much of it as possible. He discovered that most people found it extremely difficult to recall the story exactly, even after repeated readings, and hypothesised that, where the elements of the story failed to fit into the schemata of the listener, these elements were omitted from the recollection, or transformed into more familiar forms.&lt;/i&gt;

And research in psychology has confirmed these findings time and time again that people reconstruct what they see and hear in ways that conform to what they already know and practice. That the early scholars went to great lengths to determine the authenticity of hadiths, I can accept. But that they were immune to normal biological processes of memory is unlikely. And that&#039;s why I find it difficult to accept that Allah aided in the preservation of hadiths. If He had, we would see no variation among hadiths. That we do see variation indicates, at least to me, that He did not aid in the preservation of hadiths. And if He did not, then although they are useful in understanding Islam and the sunnah of the Prophet, they cannot be used to determine binding rules for Islamic practice. 

Of course, if I were to study hadith literature and Arabic for 10 years, I would come to a better understanding and perhaps to a different conclusion. That&#039;s why, although the traditional position on preservation of hadiths is difficult for me to accept, I recognize my limitations. 

Allah knows best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give my thanks to Sh. Haitham for his response. I suppose my problem remains with the preservation of the Sunnah. That&#8217;s why the differing hadith from Abu Hurairah caught my eye. But they are not the only ones. Here are two hadiths from Bukhari:</p>
<p>Volume 1, Book 4, Number 159:<br />
Narrated Ibn &#8216;Abbas:<br />
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts only once.</p>
<p>Volume 1, Book 4, Number 160:<br />
Narrated &#8216;Abdullah bin Zaid:<br />
The Prophet performed ablution by washing the body parts twice.</p>
<p>It would be helpful to know the Arabic, but &#8220;only once&#8221; never equals &#8220;twice&#8221; in English. Yet both are authentic hadith. </p>
<p>The problem with preservation of hadiths  is the limitations on preservation of memory. It can&#8217;t be done over centuries without error. Bartlett, a psychologist was perhaps the first to show this. From Wikipedia:</p>
<p><i>One of his most famous studies cast considerable light on the formation of memory. He composed a short fable called The War of the Ghosts, which comprised a sequence of events which were ostensibly logical but subtly illogical, and there were several discreet non-sequiturs. He would recite this story to subjects, then later (sometimes much later) ask them to recall as much of it as possible. He discovered that most people found it extremely difficult to recall the story exactly, even after repeated readings, and hypothesised that, where the elements of the story failed to fit into the schemata of the listener, these elements were omitted from the recollection, or transformed into more familiar forms.</i></p>
<p>And research in psychology has confirmed these findings time and time again that people reconstruct what they see and hear in ways that conform to what they already know and practice. That the early scholars went to great lengths to determine the authenticity of hadiths, I can accept. But that they were immune to normal biological processes of memory is unlikely. And that&#8217;s why I find it difficult to accept that Allah aided in the preservation of hadiths. If He had, we would see no variation among hadiths. That we do see variation indicates, at least to me, that He did not aid in the preservation of hadiths. And if He did not, then although they are useful in understanding Islam and the sunnah of the Prophet, they cannot be used to determine binding rules for Islamic practice. </p>
<p>Of course, if I were to study hadith literature and Arabic for 10 years, I would come to a better understanding and perhaps to a different conclusion. That&#8217;s why, although the traditional position on preservation of hadiths is difficult for me to accept, I recognize my limitations. </p>
<p>Allah knows best.</p>
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		<title>By: Amad</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-16383</link>
		<dc:creator>Amad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-16383</guid>
		<description>to Br. Charles, here is some info from Shaykh Haitham:

&lt;blockquote&gt;1) The narration of Amr bin Umayyah is not reliable.  It was narrated by alHakim in his Mustadrak with a chain containing ibn Lahee&#039;ah, an agreed upon weak narrator.
Such a narration does not stand in the face of a narration documented in both Bukhari and Muslim.
 
2) Even if we were to accept this narration, it is possible that Abu Hurairah RAA was not the one who wrote the Hadeeths in these books.  Some of his companions used to document Hadeeths they heard in the same books.  Wallahu A&#039;lam.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to Br. Charles, here is some info from Shaykh Haitham:</p>
<blockquote><p>1) The narration of Amr bin Umayyah is not reliable.  It was narrated by alHakim in his Mustadrak with a chain containing ibn Lahee&#8217;ah, an agreed upon weak narrator.<br />
Such a narration does not stand in the face of a narration documented in both Bukhari and Muslim.</p>
<p>2) Even if we were to accept this narration, it is possible that Abu Hurairah RAA was not the one who wrote the Hadeeths in these books.  Some of his companions used to document Hadeeths they heard in the same books.  Wallahu A&#8217;lam.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Amad</title>
		<link>http://muslimmatters.org/2008/03/31/authority-of-sunnah-part-3-status-of-sahaba-companions/#comment-16381</link>
		<dc:creator>Amad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://muslimmatters.org/?p=1130#comment-16381</guid>
		<description>Sister Umm A, with all due respect to Sister Samaha, her words (as would be my own opinions) have no real academic value in these matters since she is not qualified in the hadith sciences. Abul Fadl has some knowledge, but his opinions are outweighed by the vast majority of muhaditheen of our Ummah.

Does anyone mean to tell me that Bukhari, Muslim just messed up, and didn&#039;t quite know Abu Hurayrah (RD)??  That seems not only arrogant but ignorant.

I&#039;ll make another few points, please read:

1) We have already discussed in length why hadith is revelation in its status, similar to Qur&#039;an So, both have to have been preserved by Allah.

2) BOTH hadith and Quran were preserved, transmitted and recorded by the SAME companions. So, if we cast doubt on one preservation, logically we cannot &quot;save&quot; the other.

3) If someone told you something where your life depended on it... how likely are you in these situations to not record the info, or to just mess up? Unlikely! Do you think the sahaba would take their hereafter so lightly as not to be stubbornly meticulous about memorizing and/or writing Prophet (S)&#039;s words, knowing the consequences of not being careful?  Consider further that they have the burden of passing on the knowledge of deen and that the Prophet (S) made dua for their memory?  What are the chances that because they are &quot;children of Adam&quot;, they&#039;ll just forget this critical info!

Sometimes, when a person doesn&#039;t have knowledge about matters, it is better to remain quiet than to cause confusion and to avoid the dangerous area of casting doubts on the Sahabah (the best generation of Muslims).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sister Umm A, with all due respect to Sister Samaha, her words (as would be my own opinions) have no real academic value in these matters since she is not qualified in the hadith sciences. Abul Fadl has some knowledge, but his opinions are outweighed by the vast majority of muhaditheen of our Ummah.</p>
<p>Does anyone mean to tell me that Bukhari, Muslim just messed up, and didn&#8217;t quite know Abu Hurayrah (RD)??  That seems not only arrogant but ignorant.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll make another few points, please read:</p>
<p>1) We have already discussed in length why hadith is revelation in its status, similar to Qur&#8217;an So, both have to have been preserved by Allah.</p>
<p>2) BOTH hadith and Quran were preserved, transmitted and recorded by the SAME companions. So, if we cast doubt on one preservation, logically we cannot &#8220;save&#8221; the other.</p>
<p>3) If someone told you something where your life depended on it&#8230; how likely are you in these situations to not record the info, or to just mess up? Unlikely! Do you think the sahaba would take their hereafter so lightly as not to be stubbornly meticulous about memorizing and/or writing Prophet (S)&#8217;s words, knowing the consequences of not being careful?  Consider further that they have the burden of passing on the knowledge of deen and that the Prophet (S) made dua for their memory?  What are the chances that because they are &#8220;children of Adam&#8221;, they&#8217;ll just forget this critical info!</p>
<p>Sometimes, when a person doesn&#8217;t have knowledge about matters, it is better to remain quiet than to cause confusion and to avoid the dangerous area of casting doubts on the Sahabah (the best generation of Muslims).</p>
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