Of course I can comprehend why a woman would not want to wear a niqab. I don’t wear one myself. I don’t think I have to, and I choose not to. But other women do want to wear it, and believe it is required. No one has the right to tell them they are wrong to wear it. They are free to make their own choices. Choices that you, in your ignorance, have said they should not be free to make, because of where they live. If you want to use that argument for yourself, to provide a reason why you don’t wear one, go ahead. But leave other women out of it. They are not bound by your reasoning, but that of fiqh.

I am not in the least bit angry, at all. But I don’t keep my mouth shut when I hear people who want to take Muslims’ Allah-given rights away. Especially when those people who want to take those rights away are fellow Muslims. Or when there are other Muslims who can’t keep their noses out of other families’ business in regards to putting hijabs on little kids. There are immigrant children suffering from malnutrition, crushing poverty, poor performance in school, parents struggling to learn English so they can find better employment, etc., and there are people who want to sit and complain about 6 year olds wearing a scarf?! Great priorities. Way to show you care about children.

And quit twisting and distorting my words to try and make me look bad. I do not have a negative attitude on befriending others. I have lots of friends, who I’ve met in all kinds of places. All I said was that I simply don’t have the ability to be-friend every single person I see outside my home, even parents who don’t dress their children appropriately. If I’m outside shopping with my children, I don’t have the ability to approach every single mother I come across. Neither does any other human being. I make friends when the situation allows for it, and hope my children can be a good example for everyone who sees them.

Secondly you need to provide us an evidence that Niqab is a customary thing not something that is legislated in Shariah. Fiqh does not go with what we think is right or wrong. Fiqh is based on the Quran and Sunnah, thus if you are telling the muslims that Niqab is customary habit then you need to tell us where do you get this ruling from and how did you come to this conclusion from reading Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet(SAW).

As has been said on this thread there are two opinions amongst the scholars of Islam. One who say that Niqab is Obligatory and the other half who said it is not obligatory but Mustahab i.e. recommended. There is no other ruling about it.

So please provide the evidence for your stance on Niqab. If you do not have any evidence or any scholar to support it than you should fear Allah for speaking about Allah’s deen when you are ignorant about it is a big Dhulm and sin.

You all see that we have sides, ideas, beliefs, that may be seperate from each other, but together, if we can avoid heated argument, we can use it to our advantage.
As many of you so ingenously said, we must use our heads. This is a game of action, but the actions must be smart and well-played. Our Ummah is huge, connected, and most importantly, powerful – but only if we are united. Think, now…are we united?
Then a course of action. This discussion is interesting and informative, but unless that information can be slavaged and used, it is a loss. What a tragic loss it would be, too, with all of your collective knowledge.
You people have got good ideas. Enough people, those ideas can be used against this pitiful excuse for a law. You are the French muslima’s last hope. Will you leave them in their time of need?

Think about it -
The Red Abandon

I really do feel your hot headed and uncompromiseable attitude is one that quite a few share.
Regardless of whether or not English is my first language; I feel that you are the one that has misread the thread.

I think that unfortunately – you cannot grasp an equal argument, as to why even a Muslim sister would not comprehend wearing the niqab.
But as I stated in my response to Ibrahim – we do have the benefit of living the in the UK/US where the support of religious/political groups are on our side for which ever belief we may have.

There is a big question to ask oneself about re-education.
Culture is so often mixed up with religion, my argument on young children wearing the hijab still stands.
Your negative attitude on befriending others is sad – and we do not live in an Islamic state,
However – to have the thought that you have failed if you cannot befriend every parent that has scantily dressed child is ridiculous.

As a Muslim in a western country – I have a right to freedom of speech – that is why I take on-board what you have said, but your insular views show that you need to see arguments from all side.
That does not mean you have to compromise your views and actions,

You are angry – and I hope that through Salat and Dhikr you find peace – as you need to stop ranting, and take the time out to see how people react to topics from all areas of the globe.
And rather than look so negatively – look from both sides of the argument.

With regards to clothing being none of my business; well that also stands for you as well – and I commented on the perception of the Niqab for security reasons, as well as the hijab for young children that are not supposed to wear it in the 1st place.
I did not put my two pence in about other dress code.
If you honestly feel that the niqab is one of a positive step forward then I respect you for that.
I on the other hand do not, and will never see it in a positive light.

It has way too many negative connotations on from all sides.

Sister Sebkha – chill-out and may Allah always guide you to the straight path.
Try to see all sides of an argument, I have taken your views that I know are shared by many on-board.

Wa’salam Sister Rosie.

There are scholars who mandate that wearing a niqab is required. There are others who say it isn’t. Regardless of who you agree with, women still have the absolute right to choose to put it on, whether they feel it’s required or not. Some women just want to wear it. So leave them alone, and worry about yourself. Their clothing choices are none of your business, and no one has the right to take their rights to choose away from them.

I fail to see how any of this makes me seem “angry”, and I don’t understand why you are trying to degrade my point of view by classifying it that way. I’m not angry, but I will not stand idly by when there are Muslim women like yourself who say that other Muslim women shouldn’t practice their religion in the manner they choose to because being around women in niqabs makes you uncomfortable. I did put myself in the position of others who are clearly scared of the unknown-I pointed out some of the things going on in the society my family lives in that we need to be cautious and concerned about. Niqabs are nowhere on that list. They are not a matter of fear and worry in my daily life, the way they seem to be in yours. And it’s ridiculous that they are a source of fear and worry in your life, because there’s no valid reason for it at all.

You completely missed the point of my comments about young children in hijabs as well. I clearly said there that I’m not putting one on my own child while she’s in elementary school, unless she asks to wear it. Obviously I know it’s not required of her when she’s this age, which is why she’s not wearing it. But other parents choose to put it on their young kids. While I obviously don’t agree with it, since I’m not doing it, it’s still none of my business how other parents choose to raise their children, as long as it is not mentally and physically hurting them. It’s not a reason to be sad, it’s just different from the choices my husband and I make for our daughter. End of story.
And I never said anything about looking down on people who dress their young children like sex objects. I said I felt far more grief (ie sadness) over seeing that then I do over seeing little kids in hijabs. Since it is completely impractical for me to befriend and re-educate every parent I see in public who has their child dressed in an objectifying manner, at least I can provide an example through myself and my own daughter.

Thank you for your response – I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
(Hence I am making a point to stay active on this thread).

You have given an insight into factors as you so rightly state that in the UK/USA we may take for granted; that we have an an option to speak out, debate and make use of political/religious organisations that are sympathetic to Islam.

I would hope to think that there are sisters that wear the Niqab that would speak out about their religious choice, and I would be more than happy to live in a world, or society where a religion can be practiced, as well as a cultural norm (niqab), without being compared to a terroristic act etc.
However, just because I say I am scared, does not mean I am trying to be a scaremongerer, or turn my back on Islam.
I too get the same treatment, but I make a point to be outwardly spoken, so that the person who does feel threatened sees that I am of no threat.

I am fully aware that Muslims are collectively having a hard time at the moment – and over history.
But I would like to look forward; and be part of a change in views.
I am frustrated when the only person that is called upon in the media to comment on an Islamic issue is 9/10 a man that cannot speak English very well, and his arguments are not structurally strong to stand up against his opponent. (And portrayed by others who is veiwing him for his culture, as opposed to his religion).
On the other-hand, I also do not want to be represented by someone who is claiming to be Muslim, yet even talks against changing the pillars or Islam.

There are so many educated, well spoken, muslim men and women from all walks of life, I just wish they would (including myself) stand up and represent Muslims in the land that they live in.
And be admired for their beliefs and practices – not ridiculed, bullied, and even killed.

Wa’salam
Sister Rosie.

If you go to continental Europe the atmosphere is totally different. There rascism runs very deep – look at the way the French historically treated their muslim colonies. They hate the sight of people of different colour and they will hate even more the sight of muslims wearing veils. They say that their societies are based on liberty and freedom but you can see an aparthied emerging – freedom and liberty for white french non-muslims – humiliation, intimidiation and restrictions for Muslims.

There is one other issue that I have. Are all the niqab ladies activily campaigning or are they leaving this fight to the rest of the muslims and to sympathetic non-muslims?

I think it is sad that you feel that way.
I think it is best to get on with everyone, without having to compromise ones views and outlook.
It is not a breach of human rights to say that a woman should not wear a niqab, as it is not a religious pre-requisite in Islam to do so.

One must understand that Islam has got very bad press at the moment, and the peace loving, clean and well structured religion seems to have been portrayed as a terrorostic backward religion.

I do not take on board your views, as you are clearly angry for no justified reason.
As I have previously stated I was caught up in the 7/7 bombings and therefore as an ambassador for my religion, rather than get hot headed, I embrace talks with other religions and nations to show and educate others that Al-Islam is one of peace.

With respect – if you think a woman with a large purse can be used as an argument against the hijab, you clearly do need to re-educate your thoughts, and also put yourself in the position of others that are clearly scared of the unknown.

With reference to young children and the hijab – you are misinformed.
A child should not have to wear this at an age of 4 – and why?
One of the main reasons is, rather than thinking so insular – if a child is at risk from others, as well as elders, then one should remove her; and if society as a whole is becoming a risk then re-education, support, and guidance is needed.
Rather than look down on others that dress their children like sex objects, why not get the time to know the mothers, and re-educate them?
I know of many reverts that have seen sense, and become strong pillars of the community.
We are one Ummah – sub division has so many negative connotations.
If we all had the attitude of just throwing litter because the next person did – what a state the country would be in?

Wa’salam
Sister Rosie

When women move to places where niqabs are not commonly worn, their basic human rights to practice their religion in whatever manner they deem fit do not suddenly get thrown out the window, even if no one else around them is wearing what they wear. And it’s nobody else’s business whether or not parents put a hijab on their small children. I’m not putting one on my daughter while she’s in elementary school unless she asks to wear it, but it’s not my business if other families feel differently. Their child/their choice. Why is it something to feel sad over? I feel far more grief over seeing children dressed like sex objects, which is not an uncommon sight unfortunately. It’s far more disturbing, and sending far more dangerous messages to little girls and little boys than a kindergartner in a hijab.

I felt compelled to write about my feelings about the Hijab – and the Niqab, which I at times I feel European societies get confused about. (Possibly at times on purpose).
I have started to wear the hijab for the past few weeks, having being a westernised Mulism, and always wanting to openly state in the past that my religion was internal, and I did not need to wear a covering for my head.
Howvever – now I have started to wear the hijab, I did so for my own self, and no one else.
I am a proud and patriotic londoner, of asian/african decent, but British born.
I do however feel that the Niqab is a cultural norm, and without getting wrapped up in the ethics of wearing the niqab, its not a obligatory to wear it in Islam.
(I must also state that there are muslims from all over the globe, and we cannot all be type cast as arabs, pakistanis etc, some of us come from peaceful islands that get on well with our christian, hindu, sikh, athiest colleagues, neighbours etc – I hate it when the news, even other fellow sisters and brothers seem to think we all have issues with others – I can’t say that I do.
I have Jewish, hindu, buddhist etc friends, and we all get on, love and respect eachother – we may have views that others dont share, but we still hold eachother in high esteem).
It is my understanding that the niqab/face covering was a practice of the companions wives of the Prophet (S.A.W).
But one must take on board, if you want to practice this, as well as the other practices that are not feasible in this country, then it would be common sense to do it in the land of where it was practiced.
Does that sound harsh or ignorant? I could be wrong, but I am sure no companions of the Prophet s.a.w practiced the wearing of the Niqab in Britain at that time.
(Additional note – It saddens me that children as young as 4 are wearing the hijab, this to my knowledge, and my apologies if I am wrong is not the correct practice, as a young girls of menstruating age are required to wear the hijab).
Also, for personal safety it worries me to not be able to see the face of person, particularly on London Transport, and that is me saying that as a Muslim wearing the Hijab.
Why is that so? Well the London bombings that affected me personally was committed by those in the name of Islam – now I could be wrong, but unless anything else is proven, this was the case.
So because of this, I would like to live in an environment where we are all able to practice our religion but with respect, and in accordance to the laws of the country we live in.
And those countries must also play their part in wanting to be sympathetic to the ethics of the various religious beliefs.
It is not my intention to turn my back on my muslim sisters, and I would be deeply hurt to be portrayed that way.
Since wearing the hijab, I have been looked on weirdly, even avoided on the tube/bus etc.
At work, I emailed a few to tell them what I was about to do – why? because I wanted to, and I didn’t want to bring negative connotations to my faith/beliefs, I would have done the same if I was about to shave my hair off.
Now I feel I am a better person (and more colourful!), and I am not a hardcore fanatic – I am still the mellow person that I am , its just that my realationship with God (Allah s.a.w) is more spiritual.
And I make a point to be more extrovert, as I do feel that I am a representative of muslim women, and I have no problem showing others, or speaking about it.

Kind regards to you all, of all faiths and beliefs.