Comments on: Muslim’s Guide to Debt and Money Management Part 6 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/ Discourses in the Intellectual Traditions, Political Situation, and Social Ethics of Muslim Life Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Riyaz http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-96708 Riyaz Wed, 27 Apr 2011 07:23:07 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-96708 <em>'Your ideal picture makes it almost impossible to live in the West in a halal manner.'</em> I have a problem with this kind of thinking. Why should the west be privileged to make exceptions to the Islamic way of life and the rest of the world be left behind. To speak the truth, it's harder to be within the guidelines of the permissible in the 'non-western' world. Islam doesn't work on exceptions. I know I was too strong but I may if required give pertinent explanations to what ever I said in detail. Jazak'Allah. ‘Your ideal picture makes it almost impossible to live in the West in a halal manner.’

I have a problem with this kind of thinking. Why should the west be privileged to make exceptions to the Islamic way of life and the rest of the world be left behind. To speak the truth, it’s harder to be within the guidelines of the permissible in the ‘non-western’ world.

Islam doesn’t work on exceptions.

I know I was too strong but I may if required give pertinent explanations to what ever I said in detail.

Jazak’Allah.

]]> By: ZAI http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-96702 ZAI Wed, 27 Apr 2011 06:02:43 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-96702 I think Shaykh al-Shareef's saying that if one cannot afford to become a doctor maybe they weren't meant to be is atrocious advice. With all due respect to him...I totally disagree with that line of thinking. It's pretty much a way of saying if you were born rich than great, everybody else is outta luck. Over time a lack of upward social mobility creates huge disparities in society and we would be stuck with a type of Islamic caste system. This is already visible in many Muslim nations like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt and many others where a rich upperclass is like an educated elite living in bubbles financed by the luck of generational wealth in land, and most of the masses are peasants who never had and continue not to have any prospect for bettering their situation in life. Nodoubt Islam teaches a belief in the Qadr...especially with things that we cannot change or affect, but nowhere in Islam do I see a demand to submit and resign oneself to a Qadr that we HAVE the power to change if opporunity presents itself. Taking qadr to an extreme would be a form of fatalism that stagnates and retards the ummah. What's the point of even being on this Earth and tested if we make no effort at anything? A better course would be to offer constructive halaal approaches that help Muslim people regardless of where they fare in the genetic lottery. For instance, the US government offers programs to help finance non-loan grants and even forgive debt if new doctors agree to allot a certain amount of time to practicing medicine in rural or very underserved areas. Aside from taking advantage of such a program, why can't we Muslims start something akin to that? Why can't we have a non-profit chain of Muslim health clinics that agrees to finance a students educations if they agree to serve 5-10 years or more at the place after graduating? That's just one example. We need to start thinking out of the box and coming up with halaal solutions that balance deen with duniya. These fatalistic pronouncements are a non-starter, especially because they assume an ideal that doesn't exist in the Muslim ummah... Sorry, but education effects a lot of things. It affects who you marry or if you can even get married, it affects in turn what you can or cannot provide your children,what kind of neighborhood environment(safe/unsafe) you live in, and on and on. It's easy to tell someone not to get a loan to get educated. Are those same idealists gonna then gonna give their daughters hand in marriage to the uneducated guy or the doctor? Are the uneducated guys gonna sit on the masjid board or are the doctors and engineers sahibs? Real easy to make these prnouncements as if we're living in an ideal world. The day Muslims get over classism, being obsessed with status, money, etc. tell our youth not to take a loan for education. Until that day, better to come up with halaal alternatives. All due respect to Imam al-shareef, but I TOTALLY disagree with that type of thinking. My advice to the Muslim brothers and sisters: try your hardest not to take loans, work towards providing alternatives for future generations and be modest in balancing duniya and deen...but TAKE the loan if you sincerely have no other choice and God is a forgiving God and knows whats in your heart. Until our entire COMMUNITY changes its priorities, it's totally irresponsible only to tell a few people to and doom them to a life of difficulties in everything from marriage to community...Ali I think Shaykh al-Shareef’s saying that if one cannot afford to become a doctor maybe they weren’t meant to be is atrocious advice. With all due respect to him…I totally disagree with that line of thinking. It’s pretty much a way of saying if you were born rich than great, everybody else is outta luck. Over time a lack of upward social mobility creates huge disparities in society and we would be stuck with a type of Islamic caste system. This is already visible in many Muslim nations like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt and many others where a rich upperclass is like an educated elite living in bubbles financed by the luck of generational wealth in land, and most of the masses are peasants who never had and continue not to have any prospect for bettering their situation in life.

Nodoubt Islam teaches a belief in the Qadr…especially with things that we cannot change or affect, but nowhere in Islam do I see a demand to submit and resign oneself to a Qadr that we HAVE the power to change if opporunity presents itself. Taking qadr to an extreme would be a form of fatalism that stagnates and retards the ummah. What’s the point of even being on this Earth and tested if we make no effort at anything?

A better course would be to offer constructive halaal approaches that help Muslim people regardless of where they fare in the genetic lottery. For instance, the US government offers programs to help finance non-loan grants and even forgive debt if new doctors agree to allot a certain amount of time to practicing medicine in rural or very underserved areas. Aside from taking advantage of such a program, why can’t we Muslims start something akin to that? Why can’t we have a non-profit chain of Muslim health clinics that agrees to finance a students educations if they agree to serve 5-10 years or more at the place after graduating?

That’s just one example. We need to start thinking out of the box and coming up with halaal solutions that balance deen with duniya. These fatalistic pronouncements are a non-starter, especially because they assume an ideal that doesn’t exist in the Muslim ummah…

Sorry, but education effects a lot of things. It affects who you marry or if you can even get married, it affects in turn what you can or cannot provide your children,what kind of neighborhood environment(safe/unsafe) you live in, and on and on.

It’s easy to tell someone not to get a loan to get educated. Are those same idealists gonna then gonna give their daughters hand in marriage to the uneducated guy or the doctor? Are the uneducated guys gonna sit on the masjid board or are the doctors and engineers sahibs? Real easy to make these prnouncements as if we’re living in an ideal world.

The day Muslims get over classism, being obsessed with status, money, etc. tell our youth not to take a loan for education. Until that day, better to come up with halaal alternatives. All due respect to Imam al-shareef, but I TOTALLY disagree with that type of thinking. My advice to the Muslim brothers and sisters: try your hardest not to take loans, work towards providing alternatives for future generations and be modest in balancing duniya and deen…but TAKE the loan if you sincerely have no other choice and God is a forgiving God and knows whats in your heart. Until our entire COMMUNITY changes its priorities, it’s totally irresponsible only to tell a few people to and doom them to a life of difficulties in everything from marriage to community…Ali

]]> By: Mr Thomas http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-76809 Mr Thomas Thu, 23 Sep 2010 09:05:42 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-76809 How mch? How mch?

]]> By: Abdullah http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-33258 Abdullah Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:02:26 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-33258 I also wrote a piece on <a href="http://lightuponlight.com/blog/30000-dollars-in-loans-no-interest/" rel="nofollow">$30,000 not a penny of interest.</a>. It explains how I managed to avoid paying interest on a huge student loan for my university expenses. I also wrote a piece on $30,000 not a penny of interest.. It explains how I managed to avoid paying interest on a huge student loan for my university expenses.

]]> By: Abu Zainab http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-31657 Abu Zainab Mon, 17 Nov 2008 06:01:14 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-31657 There are several good observations made in this series. The best suggestions:live within your means, pay cash, and avoid ribaa like the plague. Living without credit and without ribaa (and reaching the debt-free level) is hard in Western countries, as one sister pointed out. It is also completely possible. One major obstacle to tackling the debt issue was mentioned: the desire for immediate gratification. The American culture revolves around this. Muslim Americans are just as affected by it as everyone else. A major obstacle may also be the weakness of an individual to resist family and societal pressure. Muslim families are as prone to materialism as other Americans. It can be hard to tell your parents you want to "work-as-you-go" through med school. Or to resist the pressure to buy a $300,000+ house on mortgage when all the other Pakistanis/ Bengalis/ Palestinians/ (insert ethnic origin) have one. What would they say if they knew you rented ? A family I know rented an apartment for almost twenty years and then bought a dream home in suburbia…cash! So it can be done. I love this blog. I also usually skip the comments because they are loaded with "I think" and "in my opinion." These are dangerous and irresponsible phrases. The nature of the topic begs a reminder for Muslims to research the "halal / haraam" issue before they begin any endeavor, financial or other. For Sr. Maria and others who posted questions that are essentially asking for fatawaa, Islam QA is a reliable resource. Search results for loans, ribaa, mortgages, student loans, etc. Their writing style is adapted for the student of knowledge. QA presents all sides of the argument, including the "differences of opinion"; they consider the evidence in light of the Qur'an and Sunnah; they are flexible and moderate within the framework of Islam; and the shuyookh that research the topics are aware of current events and lifestyles in Western countries. Thanks for the series. I enjoyed it a lot. May Allaah continue to bless your efforts. Ameen. There are several good observations made in this series. The best suggestions:live within your means, pay cash, and avoid ribaa like the plague. Living without credit and without ribaa (and reaching the debt-free level) is hard in Western countries, as one sister pointed out. It is also completely possible.

One major obstacle to tackling the debt issue was mentioned: the desire for immediate gratification. The American culture revolves around this. Muslim Americans are just as affected by it as everyone else.

A major obstacle may also be the weakness of an individual to resist family and societal pressure. Muslim families are as prone to materialism as other Americans. It can be hard to tell your parents you want to “work-as-you-go” through med school. Or to resist the pressure to buy a $300,000+ house on mortgage when all the other Pakistanis/ Bengalis/ Palestinians/ (insert ethnic origin) have one. What would they say if they knew you rented ? A family I know rented an apartment for almost twenty years and then bought a dream home in suburbia…cash! So it can be done.

I love this blog. I also usually skip the comments because they are loaded with “I think” and “in my opinion.” These are dangerous and irresponsible phrases. The nature of the topic begs a reminder for Muslims to research the “halal / haraam” issue before they begin any endeavor, financial or other.

For Sr. Maria and others who posted questions that are essentially asking for fatawaa, Islam QA is a reliable resource. Search results for loans, ribaa, mortgages, student loans, etc. Their writing style is adapted for the student of knowledge. QA presents all sides of the argument, including the “differences of opinion”; they consider the evidence in light of the Qur’an and Sunnah; they are flexible and moderate within the framework of Islam; and the shuyookh that research the topics are aware of current events and lifestyles in Western countries.

Thanks for the series. I enjoyed it a lot. May Allaah continue to bless your efforts. Ameen.

]]> By: The Financial Meltdown and its Underpinnings of Debt | MuslimMatters.org http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-26921 The Financial Meltdown and its Underpinnings of Debt | MuslimMatters.org Sun, 21 Sep 2008 07:56:38 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-26921 [...] Muslim’s Guide to Debt and Money Management: Intro | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 [...] [...] Muslim’s Guide to Debt and Money Management: Intro | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 [...]

]]> By: Maria http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-22166 Maria Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:35:54 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-22166 Dear Author or anybody who is knowledgeable, Assalamu 'alaykum! I have one question regarding acquiring a house without riba. As I searched on the internet, I learned that some scholars allowed acquiring a house through conventional mortgage based on neccessity - - a fatwa based on Abu Hanifah. While there are also some scholars who differ it. Since there are differences of opinions, I would better rent until I have enough cash. But when? A question that I don't know the answer since I 'm just a stay at home mum. Only Allah (s.wt.) knows. Now, my question is: Do I have part of riba if I own a house through my brother who originally did it with bank mortgage? What happened is this: my brother bought a house through bank mortgage. He is still paying the monthly payment for that mortgage until now and he wants me to share the monthly payment to 50 - 50 so that he can keep the house. Otherwise, he will sell the house because he can no longer afford to pay its monthly repayments. If I'll agree to share, do I have part of riba transaction? If I'll agree to share, is it not buying a house in installment without morgage? It's him who did the mortgage, not me. I'll pay my monthly share to him, not to the bank. Thanks a lot for your guidance and help. Maria Dear Author or anybody who is knowledgeable,

Assalamu ‘alaykum!

I have one question regarding acquiring a house without riba. As I searched on the internet, I learned that some scholars allowed acquiring a house through conventional mortgage based on neccessity – - a fatwa based on Abu Hanifah. While there are also some scholars who differ it.

Since there are differences of opinions, I would better rent until I have enough cash. But when? A question that I don’t know the answer since I ‘m just a stay at home mum. Only Allah (s.wt.) knows.

Now, my question is:

Do I have part of riba if I own a house through my brother who originally did it with bank mortgage?

What happened is this: my brother bought a house through bank mortgage. He is still paying the monthly payment for that mortgage until now and he wants me to share the monthly payment to 50 – 50 so that he can keep the house. Otherwise, he will sell the house because he can no longer afford to pay its monthly repayments.

If I’ll agree to share, do I have part of riba transaction?

If I’ll agree to share, is it not buying a house in installment without morgage? It’s him who did the mortgage, not me. I’ll pay my monthly share to him, not to the bank.

Thanks a lot for your guidance and help.

Maria

]]> By: LH http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-21275 LH Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:36:06 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-21275 Assalamu Alaykum, I really like this series. As far as student loans, I had taken them for undergrad, however, I wasn't a practicing Muslim then and by the time I realized taking riba-based loans was haraam, I was out of college and repaid the full loans as soon as I could. I went to a public university, lived with my parents, and worked part-time while in college. My only regret is that I should have gone to the local community college in my town for the first two years. My sister also went to the same school as me and I tried as soon as I could to pay off her school loan as well. Alhumdulillah, we have not college loan debt. But I can't say the same for a lot of the Muslim brothers and sisters I know. Also, on another note, I had changed my major when I became a junior and graduated a year later, however my last year I was not eligible for a loan and had to pay for the last year of school (which turned out to be better for me). A lot of students going into college don't know what major to take or they change it a few times while in school. This also can cost a lot of money in taking summer classes and/or graduating late and taking more classes. I think we should have more career counseling in high school and the first two years of college to help students make wise decisions in pursuing a major. Both my sister and I changed our majors. Thankfully, my sister changed her major at the end of her freshman year but she still graduated a semester late. I just hope a lot of students read this series so they can examine their situation and make decisions on how to stay away from riba and still aim to get a college education. Walikum Assalam Assalamu Alaykum,
I really like this series. As far as student loans, I had taken them for undergrad, however, I wasn’t a practicing Muslim then and by the time I realized taking riba-based loans was haraam, I was out of college and repaid the full loans as soon as I could. I went to a public university, lived with my parents, and worked part-time while in college. My only regret is that I should have gone to the local community college in my town for the first two years. My sister also went to the same school as me and I tried as soon as I could to pay off her school loan as well. Alhumdulillah, we have not college loan debt. But I can’t say the same for a lot of the Muslim brothers and sisters I know. Also, on another note, I had changed my major when I became a junior and graduated a year later, however my last year I was not eligible for a loan and had to pay for the last year of school (which turned out to be better for me). A lot of students going into college don’t know what major to take or they change it a few times while in school. This also can cost a lot of money in taking summer classes and/or graduating late and taking more classes. I think we should have more career counseling in high school and the first two years of college to help students make wise decisions in pursuing a major. Both my sister and I changed our majors. Thankfully, my sister changed her major at the end of her freshman year but she still graduated a semester late.

I just hope a lot of students read this series so they can examine their situation and make decisions on how to stay away from riba and still aim to get a college education.

Walikum Assalam

]]> By: Yusuf-Rasheed Reed http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-20956 Yusuf-Rasheed Reed Sun, 08 Jun 2008 03:56:59 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-20956 Wow! What an eye opener. Al Hamdulilah I found this series. I am seriously playing with fire. Insha'Allah I will take all this in and get out of debt. Jazak Allah Khair for this series. I am really ashamed at how I have been living. I should know better. Wow! What an eye opener. Al Hamdulilah I found this series. I am seriously playing with fire. Insha’Allah I will take all this in and get out of debt. Jazak Allah Khair for this series. I am really ashamed at how I have been living. I should know better.

]]> By: Pay Off Your Debt - Khutbah by Muhammad Faqih | MuslimMatters.org http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-20726 Pay Off Your Debt - Khutbah by Muhammad Faqih | MuslimMatters.org Tue, 03 Jun 2008 06:40:38 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/02/19/muslim%e2%80%99s-guide-to-debt-and-money-management-part-6/#comment-20726 [...] The Muslim’s Guide to Debt and Money Management: Intro | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 [...] [...] The Muslim’s Guide to Debt and Money Management: Intro | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 [...]

]]>