Comments on: Orthodox Jews Opposed to Zionism http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/ Discourses in the Intellectual Traditions, Political Situation, and Social Ethics of Muslim Life Wed, 23 May 2012 14:21:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: Morris Field http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-36864 Morris Field Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:43:29 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-36864 Mr. Abu Bakr. Re; your discussion of Neturei Karta. NK actually represent a tiny percentage of worldwide jewry. No more than a few hundred. Like many jews with opinions, they're noisy and fascinating to non jews. Hence the disproportionate media coverage. Although some jews say they're self-hating, that's too simplistic. They are (in my opinion) overly religous, and overly literal in their interpretation of the bible. They simply believe that according to the bible, jews may only return to Israel when the Messiah returns. Until then jews should not live in a jewish state. While true they don't do military service (they would make lousy soldiers anyway) many other very religous Israelis also don't do any military servive. The last statement that you make (actually they made) is grossly incorrect. Jews and moslims did not live together in peace before 1948. Fighting was occuring at the beginning of the 1900's and got progressively heavier up to 1948 and beyond. One could say that a full fledged war was occuring since 1945, the end of WW2. Mr. Abu Bakr. Re; your discussion of Neturei Karta. NK actually represent a tiny percentage of worldwide jewry. No more than a few hundred. Like many jews with opinions, they’re noisy and fascinating to non jews. Hence the disproportionate media coverage. Although some jews say they’re self-hating, that’s too simplistic. They are (in my opinion) overly religous, and overly literal in their interpretation of the bible. They simply believe that according to the bible, jews may only return to Israel when the Messiah returns. Until then jews should not live in a jewish state. While true they don’t do military service (they would make lousy soldiers anyway) many other very religous Israelis also don’t do any military servive. The last statement that you make (actually they made) is grossly incorrect. Jews and moslims did not live together in peace before 1948. Fighting was occuring at the beginning of the 1900′s and got progressively heavier up to 1948 and beyond. One could say that a full fledged war was occuring since 1945, the end of WW2.

]]> By: oyhabibti http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12874 oyhabibti Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:46:00 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12874 Most Jews, at least the Orthodox ones, consider the N.K. to be made up of stark raving lunatics, rather than "radical fringe" Jews. What they believe, in a nutshell, is that the state of Israel is not supposed to exist BEFORE THE MESSIAH RETURNS. It is not that they are opposed to Israel as a concept, they just feel that the timing is all wrong. Most Jews, at least the Orthodox ones, consider the N.K. to be made up of stark raving lunatics, rather than “radical fringe” Jews.

What they believe, in a nutshell, is that the state of Israel is not supposed to exist BEFORE THE MESSIAH RETURNS. It is not that they are opposed to Israel as a concept, they just feel that the timing is all wrong.

]]> By: Orthodox Jews Opposed to Zionism http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12872 Orthodox Jews Opposed to Zionism Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:29:16 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12872 [...] Read [...] [...] Read [...]

]]> By: Abu Bakr http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12870 Abu Bakr Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:14:32 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12870 It was not my intent to present this as an example of the Jewish majority, or even of most Orthodox Jews. People however do not realize that there is a considerable number of Jews who oppose the Zionist movement. Zionists are quick to label any such Jews as "self-hating Jews" to marginalize them. Finally, some of the points that he makes are interesting, such as his claim that Orthodox Jews take exceptions from military service in Israel and that pre-1948, Jews in Palestine lived in peace with their Muslim neighbors. It was not my intent to present this as an example of the Jewish majority, or even of most Orthodox Jews.

People however do not realize that there is a considerable number of Jews who oppose the Zionist movement.

Zionists are quick to label any such Jews as “self-hating Jews” to marginalize them.

Finally, some of the points that he makes are interesting, such as his claim that Orthodox Jews take exceptions from military service in Israel and that pre-1948, Jews in Palestine lived in peace with their Muslim neighbors.

]]> By: Hamdi http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12863 Hamdi Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:12:15 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12863 It should be pointed out that it has traditionally been the opinion of all Orthodox rabbis that it isn't allowed to establish a Jewish state in Israel. It is only in the last 70 or so years that some Orthodox groups have been trying to get around this issue by claiming that the state isn't Jewish per se, it is secular. It should be pointed out that it has traditionally been the opinion of all Orthodox rabbis that it isn’t allowed to establish a Jewish state in Israel. It is only in the last 70 or so years that some Orthodox groups have been trying to get around this issue by claiming that the state isn’t Jewish per se, it is secular.

]]> By: Ruth Nasrullah http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12861 Ruth Nasrullah Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:02:44 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12861 Asalaamu alaikum. I agree with Sabir that it's unproductive and probably misleading to hold up a very tiny fringe group such as the Neturei Karta as representing the "true" Jewish religious belief about Israel. We wouldn't want the same done to us, especially if the example is a tiny fringe group that claims (partly through their bogus "ijtihad") to speak the hidden truth about Islam. Asalaamu alaikum. I agree with Sabir that it’s unproductive and probably misleading to hold up a very tiny fringe group such as the Neturei Karta as representing the “true” Jewish religious belief about Israel. We wouldn’t want the same done to us, especially if the example is a tiny fringe group that claims (partly through their bogus “ijtihad”) to speak the hidden truth about Islam.

]]> By: Abu Nauman http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12859 Abu Nauman Mon, 28 Jan 2008 12:57:59 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12859 Assalamualaikum There seems to be some (I wouldn't say a lot) of dissent amongst the Jews about Zionism. I just read a quote by Noam Chomsky in an article on UmmahPulse.com about zionism and The Holocaust - it was criticising the way zionists are trying to link anti-semitism (and holocaust denial) to people who are anti-zionist - it was heartening to see that he found that link tenuous and wrong. I will include the link below - have a look, it was a pretty good article. http://ummahpulse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=311&Itemid=37 Assalamualaikum
There seems to be some (I wouldn’t say a lot) of dissent amongst the Jews about Zionism.
I just read a quote by Noam Chomsky in an article on UmmahPulse.com about zionism and The Holocaust – it was criticising the way zionists are trying to link anti-semitism (and holocaust denial) to people who are anti-zionist – it was heartening to see that he found that link tenuous and wrong.
I will include the link below – have a look, it was a pretty good article.
http://ummahpulse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=311&Itemid=37

]]> By: inexplicabletimelessness http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12855 inexplicabletimelessness Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:41:36 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12855 "I don’t think it’s necessarily fair for Muslims to point to the Neturei Karta as an example of how Jews should think." I respectfully disagree. When some people generalize about Muslims, they use examples of people who do not practice Islam or what the Qur'an teaches. This group of Jews, though maybe not the majority, tells us what the religion of Judaism teaches about Israel/its statehood. Thus, I think it's fair because we are clarifying this is from the religious sense. Sure, most Jews are not of this leaning, but that is the ENTIRE point: the controversy of Israel according to Jews who are pro-Israel is NOT about religion; it's about politics! Allah knows best. “I don’t think it’s necessarily fair for Muslims to point to the Neturei Karta as an example of how Jews should think.”

I respectfully disagree. When some people generalize about Muslims, they use examples of people who do not practice Islam or what the Qur’an teaches. This group of Jews, though maybe not the majority, tells us what the religion of Judaism teaches about Israel/its statehood.

Thus, I think it’s fair because we are clarifying this is from the religious sense. Sure, most Jews are not of this leaning, but that is the ENTIRE point: the controversy of Israel according to Jews who are pro-Israel is NOT about religion; it’s about politics!

Allah knows best.

]]> By: Sabir http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12851 Sabir Mon, 28 Jan 2008 03:42:44 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12851 In fairness, this organization is widely regarded by most Jews as a radical fringe group. Just like it's not fair for Jews to hold <a href="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=AD363EAC-228E-432A-9F15-8702D7765792" rel="nofollow">this guy</a> up as an example of a "moderate" Muslim, I don't think it's necessarily fair for Muslims to point to the Neturei Karta as an example of how Jews should think. In fairness, this organization is widely regarded by most Jews as a radical fringe group. Just like it’s not fair for Jews to hold this guy up as an example of a “moderate” Muslim, I don’t think it’s necessarily fair for Muslims to point to the Neturei Karta as an example of how Jews should think.

]]> By: Yus from the Nati http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12848 Yus from the Nati Sun, 27 Jan 2008 20:15:40 +0000 http://muslimmatters.org/2008/01/27/orthodox-jews-opposed-to-zionism/#comment-12848 He's a G. He’s a G.

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