1) The hadith you mentioned is well known and well-accepted. As Ulema they were correct to publicly condemn these practices, warn and advise the Muslims, the common-folk and the autorities against them. This is within their power and part of their responsibility. While I am not arguing against any and all public action, taking the law into one’s hands is not advisable if you fear that the authorities (who, like most of human history are tyrannical to some degree) will misuse it and harm the people and misuse it against religion. During the Meccan period, individual Muslims sometimes (very rarely) did fight, and publicly confront evil in circumstances where there action would save innocent people, free Muslim slaves from extraordinary cruel pagan slave-masters, or to proclaim the basics of deen like monotheism. Public confrontation, however was the rare exception for individuals who weilded power, and completely absent from Muslims as a community. The clerics of Lal Masjid (unlike some Ulema in MMA) did not head any government, either federal or provincial. So, they were not in the legal power to stop the munkar by their hand. The position of Islam against public anarchy (fitnah) is well known.

2) Dissent among Ulema does not mean that all the options are correct. Most of us agree with one rather than the other opinion when the sahaba differed. As Sunnis we try to refrain from personally criticizing any of them. For one, the clerics of Lal Masjid do not enjoy that immunity. Secondly, while we all pray that all the deceased be forgiven and may enter heaven, it does not mean that their controversial positions can not be criticized. Common decency of Muslims just means that we try not to personally humiliate anybody.

3) Re: the example of India, I did not ever say that the things that are happening in Muslim countries or the way states deal with their populations is correct. In fact, I started out by saying that we do not expect much goodness from the current set of characters.

4) This point might be tangential and controversial for some, but it needs to said sometime. Any change that you expect needs to be gradual, and moreover, the state or any other force can only dictate the broad limits. Prostitution, rape, graft and bribery are things that the state needs to eliminate by force. However, it seems that some of the effort by the Lal Masjid/Jamia Hafsa troops was closing down video and music shops. Yes, I think avoiding much of what comes in the market is necessary and most of it is a harmful distraction. However given the state of Pakistani society using force on these issues will give rise to a schizophrenic and sick class that we observe among the Iranian diaspora in the US. There have to be things that we do and avoid out of taqwa, discipline and desire to lead a good, wholesome life rather than just the force of the state.

Brother Qawukzi what you are talking about vigilante action isnt right. When the Prophet SAW said that if you see a munkar stop it by hand or by tongue or at least feel bad in your heart which is the least bit of Iman would you consider that as vigilante. Why would a person seeing munkar would not forbid it. It is part of your religious duty. Why are they wrong in forbidding them? What should they have done? Just sit there and watch a brothel running close to them or go to the police which will be bribed and nothing is gonna happen.

Yes other Ulema were telling them that this is not the right course of action and they may be right in that but Abdul Rashid Ghazi and others didnt agree with them on that. Ulema differed to the case of Lal Masjid and obviously there were very infuriated what Musharraf did.

In India there were some Bar dancers who came and started living in a locality when people of that locality found out they kept eyes on them. When they saw wrong thing happening they publicly (on News TV camera) started beating those girls and threw them out of the community. This was all going on infront of TV camera live. Government didnt go there and bombed the street instead praised them.

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