1. Poor people are used and exploited the world over, not just by Uncle Sam but also by so-called “jihadists” and spiritual sufi “sheikhs”

2. I was NOT saying that all or even most poor people engage in this, actually most of the 9/11 hijackers were from wealthy families and very well educated. This marxist thesis of poverty was the prevailing one by so-called orientalists in “Islamic” studies departments as late as the mid 90s, i.e. that Muslims or muslim “extremists” only did political violence because they were poor. Most leaders of political islam were MIDDLE CLASS. Most of those who flip out and go the violent route are very well educated, usually a history of being very secular, and come from wealthy families. Usually it is some event or occurence that triggers a spark that causes them to act out this way and then to use Islam to justify this type of violent reaction.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0720-33.htm

What i was saying is that rather the political and social conditions in European countries as a WHOLE make recruitment for this type of mayhem easier.

These articles are just a few which touch upon these social conditions:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,16518,1637465,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6189675.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1840737,00.html

This condition and these people were used to fight and eliminate one superpower (russia) there is no problem for other countries using them against another (america). since these type of actions never have any type of long term thinking or agenda to them this makes these people like a donkey ready to be ridden by whoever wants to take them anywhere they wanna go.

Finally, I think a lot of what we are saying here is in terms of generalities, so it applies to all those who think it is okay to be terrorists in “kaffir lands”. That is the important point that is to be gained from this particular discussion/post.

And so if any disaffected member of the Muslim population is reading this, my message to you is: Think ten times before considering such evil actions. And if you are doubtful or need to talk to someone to sort your head out or to refute such nonsense fed to you, then email us and we will try to help you. Let us spread the antidote to the message of hatred.

People like “realMuslims” are really “realCowards”, because they don’t even have the courage to post comments under their names, instead hiding under various pseudonyms (this person also posted on Umar’s blog as “hatetawghut”).

It is easy to cheer the killing of innocent civilians because these poor souls are unarmed and untrained, and hence “easy targets”; cowards by definition do not have the courage except to engage in these cowardly acts!

I suggest people either qualify their comments or stop making predjuiced comments about the brothers until we hear their side of the story.

Your responses are (stereo)typical of the overzealous jihadi mentality that is the cause of all of this fitnah.

I am sure that you, along with all those who agree with your world view, have only studied Islam in a very cursory manner. And indeed, a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing. It facilitates quoting verses completely out of context. It enables individuals to follow emotional fatwas without caring about the evidences or consequences. It falsely empowers laymen to feel superior to scholars whom they can conveniently accuse of not being true or sincere scholars merely because they do not agree with this layman’s understanding of Islam.

Really I do not wish to get involved in a debate with you, as I am all too familiar with you and your type, and I feel there is little good in debating with someone who has already made up his mind about the issue. But one simple question: all that you quote, how exactly does it apply to the situation at hand??? The people whom these lunatics tried to harm (some of whom would undoubtedly have also been Muslim!) are absolutely and totally innocent of the crimes that you are so angry about.

You see, it is this black and white mentality, this Manichean view of people, that is shared by Western world leaders and Usama b. Laden, ‘You are either with us or against us’. No, that’s simply not true. I am not with either camp. I don’t agree with the ‘War on Terror’, or the ‘terrors’ that sparked the ‘War on Terror’, or the ‘terrors’ that sparked the terror that sparked the War on Terror (if that makes any sense!). Terrorism leads to terrorism, and the only way we can stamp out such violence is not to resort to MORE terrorism, but to wipe out terrorism whenever and wherever it is perpetrated, regardless of whether the person committing it is an individual or government, Muslim or human secularist.

Walaa and baraa? Don’t come preaching your twisted version of walaa and baraa – a version that is based totally on *your* perverted understandings of some Texts. I’m sorry, but you have no clue what walaa and baraa is, you have read one or two works (probably in English) and think that you can now pontificate to the rest of us. What understanding of walaa and baraa justifies the support of ALL Muslims, regardless of what they have done, and lumps ALL non-Muslims together as guilty for the crimes of a few, regardless of how much so many of these non-Muslims might have done to try to distance themselves from the actions and policies of their own governments?

I am enraged at certain policies that our own governments support – policies that cause such anger and frustration, amongst Muslims and amongst people of other faiths as well. But, as enraged as I am, I also realize the need to correct these policies in a legitimate and Islamic manner, a manner that I have learnt from the Seerah of the beloved Rasul, and the Book of Allah in its totality, and not a few (mis)quoted verses here and there. I wish to correct these policies FROM WITHIN, and not by the cowardly jihadi tactics that cause nothing but harm to me, my family, my co-religionists around the world, and of course the innocent people of all faiths who die or are harmed in such senseless acts.

I firmly believe that If Americans Knew (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-m73iaP-bE) the reality, they too would be just as enraged as I am, and would want to do whatever is permissible and feasible in order to stop all violence and injustice everywhere. But blind rage and unchecked emotions is not going to help anyone – remember the Incident of Hudaybiyah, and act like Abu Bakr did, and do not fall into the mistake that Umar himself realized he fell into and repented from.

Of course, from your Manichean perspective, someone like me is an automatic sell-out, merely because we do not agree with your retroactive and violent views. Perhaps some of your ilk would then also justify the killing and murder of such ‘sell-outs’ as well…

So be it. The truth shall indeed prevail over falsehood, even if the mujrimun don’t like it.

Yasir

Obviously the UK and other kaafir nations are considered Dar al-Harb. How can you all deny this? So do the mujahedeen not have a right to do what they are doing? The real, true shuyukh (as opposed to the pro-tawhgout “shuyukh”) DO NOT say that any of these operations are “haraam” in any way! Why would they? Are you people going to deny what Allah says in the Qur’an? Have you Muslims forgotten what Allah says in the Qur’an??? Please tell me HOW these Ayat do not give Muslims the right to do what these brothers were alleged to have done. I’d like to see some of you try to refute what I’m saying :)

[003:140] If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allah may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allah likes not the Zalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers).

[009:029] Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

[002:193] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimoon (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

[002:194] The sacred month is for the sacred month, and for the prohibited things, there is the Law of Equality (Qisas). Then whoever transgresses the prohibition against you, you transgress likewise against him. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is with Al-Muttaqoon

[008:060] And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery, etc.) to threaten the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides whom, you may not know but whom Allah does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.

[016:126] And if you punish (your enemy, O you believers in the Oneness of Allah), then punish them with the like of that with which you were afflicted. But if you endure patiently, verily, it is better for As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.).

[042:041] And indeed whosoever takes revenge after he has suffered wrong, for such there is no way (of blame) against them. [042:042] The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress men and wrongly rebel in the earth, for such there will be a painful torment.