http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article346728.ece

Jewish anger at ‘racist’ murder by kidnap gang
By John Lichfield in Paris
Published: 21 February 2006 – Independent

Tempers are reaching boiling point in the French Jewish community after the torture and murder of a young Jewish man by a suburban gang calling itself ” the barbarians”.

Police had said that the gang kidnapped Ilan Halimi, 23 ­ using a beautiful, young, blonde woman as bait ­ to extort money from his family. However, the victim’s family and many other Parisian Jews are convinced the crime was, at least partially, racially motivated.

…….At the weekend, a mainly peaceful protest march by Parisian Jews was marred by a number of violent actions by radical young Jewish men. A black man was beaten up, allegedly for “smiling” at the protest. An Arab-run grocery was attacked. A motorist who was caught up in the march was assaulted and had to be rescued by demonstration marshals.
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BUT just in case you got the right “brohters”, maybe…….just maybe it has something to do with so called French Zionist philosophers like Bernard-Henri Levy claiming that the Muslim “VEIL INVITES RAPE” and thereby enciting rape.

A Brother, you have either seriously got your information sources muddled or you are some other sort of a “brother”.

Please pray 2 rakat nafil and ask God to guide you.
You are either deliberately listening to evil whispers or you are misled.

First of all, I never said posters on this forum were condoning the “Muslim” rioters, did I? And back when the rioting took place, I don’t believe this blog was even around.

However, back when the incidents in France were taking place, and news was coming out about the “Muslim” rioters, I do recall that some if not many Muslims were defending and excusing the behavior of the so-called “Muslims” rioters. I believe that some Muslims were even describing what these so-called “Muslim” rioters were doing as some sort of new praiseworthy, righteous “intifadah” against oppression (it was pretty ironic that they were saying this, because this was also what many zionist apologists, neocons, and “clash of the civilizations” pushing kaafirun were also saying). Yes, some Muslims were describing what these thugs and petty criminals were doing (many of these rioters non-Muslim BTW) to that of what the Palestinians were doing for the second time, standing up to the more than 50 years of atrocities, massacres, barbarism, and oppression from al-yahood and the zionist entity. I recall that many Muslims seemed, in my opinion, to be using ‘asabiyyah (nationalism, color, race, etc.) as a pretext for supporting the so-called “Muslim” rioters. Many Muslims seemed to only be defending the rioters because many of the rioters apparently were from North Africa, they were Arab, they had Muslim names, or because they had an olive and/or brown complexion. Yeah, again forget that the rioters were basically doing bad, ignorant, stupid, unIslamic things, causing a lot of fitnah, etc. And forget about the fact that many of these so-called “Muslims” were likely not even practicing their Deen at all, and possibly never even prayed (Allahu ‘alam). The attitude from many Muslims pretty much was hey, “they are olive and/or brown skinned,” “they are Arab,” “many seem to have Muslim names,” so “let’s not look at this from an Islamic point of view, Shari’ah wise, and objectively,” etc., because they are “one of us,” and “no matter what they do, we must pretty much put all the blame on the “evil,” white French, and their racist, bigoted society,” etc., etc., etc. That’s not to say that “white” French society as a whole or some whites are not in some ways bigoted, or prejudiced towards many of the Muslim or Arab people living there, or that much of French society surely has many problems and issues that they are not dealing with, or are afraid to deal with, etc. With this being said though, as I said earlier, how can some of us Muslims not look into the mirror regarding this issue, and not always blame someone else for things we have done or have been responsible for?

Anyway brother, when a Muslim criticizes and critiques the rioters calling themselves “Muslims” acting like the most ignorant, barbaric kuffar, aping and mimicking them, doing the most unIslamic things imaginable, then somehow I’m some freaking “orientalist,” traitor, or whatever you are implying. When there was a true Islamic government in Afghanistan under the Taliban regime, enforcing Allah’s law, enjoining good and forbidding evil, and when they punished the fasiqun, the rebellious, and the spreaders of fitnah, were the Taliban also “orientalists?” LOL

Brother, what about the fact that many ‘ulema strongly condemned and critiqued what many of the so-called “Muslims” were doing during the riots, and some I believe issuing fatawa?
Are/were these shuyukh, sellouts, traitors, or “orientalists?”

And no I don’t live, nor have I ever lived there, however, my wife (a Muslim, born to a Muslim family, born in a Muslim country) has some family that do live there, and obviously know first hand a lot about what I touched on. Didn’t you say that you often visit there yourself? Maybe they have had different experiences then you have had. And what they have said in general about these so-called Muslims living in the various suburbs will make any Muslim sad, frustrated, and angry. I heard many times that many of these “Muslim” youth do nothing but run around in thuggish, criminal gangs. Many don’t even go to school. They sell drugs, do drugs, steal merchandise, and have shootouts with the police. I have heard that often times, the police are too scared to even come into these various suburban areas, or so they say, because they allegedly have a lack of firepower against these thugs and gangsters. I have heard that these so-called “Muslims” as I said in my first post on this subject, are often guilty of raping MUSLIM sisters. Think about that brother. These “Muslim” youth are often guilty of raping Muslims sisters!!!!!! If you (or I or any Muslim) don’t get angry for the sake of Allah (swt) after hearing about this, then there is something very, very wrong. My wife’s family had to even move from one area because it was so bad. And again, the main victims of these gangsters and thugs, as it was during the riots, are mainly other Muslims and/or people of Arab/North African background. As happens in America, where often times, many of the people in the most violent, gang and drug infested, and crime ridden communities are too scared to even call the police for fear of retaliation, or reprisal, the same goes for the mainly Arab, Muslim communities that live in these neighborhoods of France. Do you not agree that this is sad, and pathetic, and a truly despicable situation for the Muslims to be in? Oh I guess if you do, then you must be some sort of freaking “orientalist.”

Not me. Just visit very often living in the area.

A Brother, does your very objective and profuong orientalist insight in to the French “Muslim” Rioters stem from your life in France or from your French Nationality?

While I am aware that this Sarkozy character is basically, pretty much a pro-zionist, neocon type, and not nessarily a friend to Muslims whether in France or in the Ummah, I must say that to me their are some frustrations that I must get off my chest, insha’Allah.

First of all it is very frustrating how many brothers and sisters were constantly, pretty much totally defending and being apologetic towards the rioters in 2006, and what they did. These so-called “brothers” (yes, there were also non-Muslim Africans and others mixed in with them as well) did many, many, many despicable, ugly, and TOTALLY unIslamic things during these riots. They burned thousands and thousands of cars, many buses (some still had passengers inside) many shops, and many homes, schools, and even some churches I believe (how the heck do we feel when non-Muslims have burned down, effaced or tried to damage our masajid in Europe or North America?!). I’m not sure how many people were killed by the acts of these “brothers,” but I believe at least a dozen or more. These so-called “brothers” that it seemed like back then and now many Muslims seem to blindly defend and/or excuse, were acting like the most despicable, disgusting, criminal jahaliya kuffar. Many of these so-called “brothers” are in thuggish drug and criminal gangs, they spend many days smoking weed (and I’m sure stronger drugs) and drinking alcohol, and they are often guilty of raping fellow Muslim sisters (!!!), as well as non-Muslim women, and in general causing much, much fitnah. They of course often terrorize their own Muslim, Arab/North African community, making what goes on in many of these suburban, ghettoized French suburbs making the most violent, drug ridden, gang infested places in America seem like child’s play. These so-called “brothers” that many Muslims were/are always defending and apologizing for, were/are mimicking and monkeying the kuffar in their most disgusting, immoral, unIslamic ways, yet all some of us can do is blame the evil, racist white French. It’s all the white man’s fault. Not that I’m saying they, or French society should not be partially blamed, but when are we gonna stop making excuses for despicable, unIslamic things that are done by some of our “brothers?” So briefly getting back to Sarkozy. It seems that many of us were very upset (and still are) that he called the rioters scum and/or riffraff (or whatever he said). I don’t like this Sarkozy character as he seems to be a zionist apologist, and so forth, but how the heck was he wrong to call these criminal, thuggish, unIslamic rioting so-called “brothers” these names back then? Why can’t some of us look into the mirror on this, instead of blaming someone else?

I was pondering on a question:

Assuming you had read the book before the elections and had the right to vote would you vote for Sarkozy or the alternative?

I have heard many French Muslims speak well of Sarkozy, but these muslims I spoke to were not exactly the immigrant classs anymore. Neither were they practising muslims.

I think most of the French practising Muslim working class does not like Sarkozy. I believe rightly so. He did what he needed to in terms of his Islamophobic media comments to win the vote of the right wing electorate. The part he played in supporting the right to make fun of our prophet (PBUH) in the way of cartoons published in France puts him in my bad books for a long time to come.

It is widely agreed that France as a country desperately needed a kick up the backside in terms of its left leaning lazy work ethics but I wish that could have been done without an actor who is so willing to be Islamophobic.

His desire to establish a type of Roman Catholic (RC) version of Islam in France by creating the CFCM is contemptable and characteristic of someone who wants to control everything. Then again, the desire to reign in Islam by creating government sanctioned umbrella Muslim groups is going on everywhere in the West now. It is almost as if they are pre-empting the inevitability of Islam as a dominant religion in the West and thus see it as a necessity to have a say in its implementation……….sorry…….I mean complete control in its implementation!

Sarkozy is the grandson of a Jewish convert to Catholicism who played a strong role in Sarkozy’s ideals. Maybe this is the model that Sarkozy aspires to; to convert the Muslim people or the Muslim religion to the RC formula.

Then there is the warming of Sarkozy’s relationship with Israel……how sinister I wonder will his Islamophobia play out for the poor Palestinians.
Why is he so fond of Israel?
Is it linked with the whole American corporate (link with AIPAC) push to have the French employment laws changed?
Or…is it because Sarkozy himself is a protestant Christian Zionist?

What ever the reasons, whatever the intentions, we know his colours but have to live with him for now.